Episode 17 - Bourbon, No Ice
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show Dan and Lizzie take your questions on when someone invites himself to your party, is it okay to insist that he bring bourbon and ice?.
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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy. That's old fashioned.
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Speaker 1: Watch. How is he?
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Speaker 2: Post and damn posted? Act
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Speaker 1: as host and hostess.
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Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Really. Friendliness.
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Speaker 1: It's 2015 and you're certainly starting off the new year, right? Welcome to another episode of awesome etiquette, which is psyched to be part of the infinite guest network from American Public Media. I'm Lizzie Post,
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Speaker 2: and I'm Dan Post sending from the Emily Post Institute.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So the holidays air over new years has come and gone Exhale? No, right. Like
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Speaker 2: thes days are getting longer. Life is
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Speaker 1: good And good
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Speaker 2: morning to you.
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Speaker 1: Do you think so, Dan? Since the last time that we got Thio be with our listeners You have had something exciting happened? Why don't you tell them what you did just before Christmas?
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Speaker 2: I sure did. I did my first national TV. I had a very brief appearance on the today show. But, um, when you get started in the the author business, that's the biggest get And I'm the last of my generation to crack that particular nut. My two cousins and a and co host, Lizzie are much more experienced in
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Speaker 1: this
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Speaker 2: realm than I am. So
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Speaker 1: they sent me e hate to say it, but when you're in the world of etiquette, they want women. For some reason, it's a very maternal. It is. It's like a maternal thing. Your mom taught you your manners, even though a lot of dads do Ah lot of that. Absolutely. I mean, we've even had some salutes about gentleman
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Speaker 2: before. What's funny? You mentioned that because the particular show that I was on was hosted entirely by women. All of the men were absent that week, and it was. But it was so much fun, it really was. And it was all things I've heard about. I'd heard you and Anna talking about your green room experiences and
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Speaker 1: good and bad experiences for anyone who's listening.
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Speaker 2: Um, but it was fun. It was fun to join the rest of the team in that
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Speaker 1: nice Well, congratulations, and I'm sure you can still catch Stan's appearance on the Today show. If you go to today dot com. Um, so what else is going on? It's a new year. This is the part where I always look at it. I'm in about October, really September and October. I go through this like depression, where I'm getting ready for winter and I'm bummed. And it's not that I don't like winter. I don't love the cold, but it's just gonna
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Speaker 2: be a long haul.
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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a long haul, and the holidays really get me through the first solid two months
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Speaker 2: ago. Just what you mean?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, now we're in that place where it's just like,
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Speaker 1: Okay, Wen's may, because in Vermont, like real spring
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Speaker 2: is five months away.
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Speaker 1: So it's not something that comes that quickly. So it's. Although we're looking at a long road, man,
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Speaker 2: it's been a minute since we've done an update, and I'll tell you that I'm looking at the calendar like a ticking clock these days.
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Speaker 1: See your life. Your 2015 is totally different from my 20
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Speaker 2: 15. It's going to come fast. The wedding data set for late spring, early summer, the announcements there, the save the dates haven't gone out yet, so I'm just gonna hold on the specifics, but we're deep in it were up to our eyeballs and invitation choices and wedding guest lists and picked address. It's getting hot and heavy. No, but we've got our trip down to New York to visit her cousins and do that particular shopping schedule.
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Speaker 1: Big question. Are you going to write an Elefant?
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Speaker 2: No, There will not be an Elefant, I think. But there will be a barrage. There will be an arrival of the groom's family at the bride's home. And, yeah, details forthcoming and, uh, keep an eye on it because you will be part of that particular
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Speaker 1: under Hey, man, any excuse to wear Sari I'm like down All right, Well, with that, let's get to some of your questions,
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Speaker 1: right?
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Speaker 2: E Just so much to learn how to do. Sure, there's a lot to learn, but it's worth it on. Learning
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Speaker 1: is easy. One way is by watching others e
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Speaker 1: on each
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Speaker 2: and every episode of awesome etiquette. We take your questions on how to behave.
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Speaker 1: We're so grateful that you write in questions, but we have quite a lot of questions to get through. I'm excited. Me two things.
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Speaker 2: Question begins. Hi, Lizzie and Dan. My
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Speaker 1: question for your
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Speaker 2: podcast is about quiet hours for text messaging. Do you think there are hours when it is inappropriate to send a text message to someone, or is it the responsibility of the recipient to turn their phone off when asleep? Personally, I use the 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Rule as if I was calling someone on the telephone. But I have friends who will text at all hours. Unfortunately for me, I must leave my cell phone on for business emergencies. Should I be rankled when friends text at midnight? How should I politely remind them that email maybe a better form for non urgent communications? This is also complicated by time zones when either I'm traveling or friends and colleagues may be up at all hours around the world. Thanks, Troy.
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Speaker 1: Well, that is It's kind of a New Age conundrum. Troy's question is definitely super valid, and I like the fact that we're dealing with it in the context of texting and not in the context of actual phone calls. The 99 rule is an absolute classic. It's it's one that I certainly grew up on, Um, but when it comes to text messaging, it's one little buzz. People think it's not gonna be obnoxious. I know that I have friends that text me at seven o'clock in the morning. And if it's a day where I could sleep into eight, I am ticked off that my phone has gone off before my alarm. Eso I do think that there is a little bit of the 99 going on. However
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Speaker 1: it's it depends on your friends. I mean, I would definitely ask people who have a tendency to text me that early to say, Hey, could you wait until nine? Thea Other thing that you can dio at least I know if you are an iPhone user, is that the iPhone has the capability to do what they called. Do not disturb. Now you can do not disturb somebody. Um, you kind of you click the little button and and the setting goes on, and you could do it individually for one person. So if I know, for instance, that Dan always texts me at, like, 11 o'clock on a work night, I could just shut Dan off, and that's it. So if I'm worried that my mom was sick in the hospital or, you know, um, my sister, who I know often does have an emergency or something needs needs to get in touch. Those numbers will still come through. But sometimes your annoying friend who is always texting way to earlier way too late. You can shut them off.
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Speaker 2: You can silence just one my question. Could you allow just one person? Could you choose your boss, your mother
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Speaker 1: Fairly certain that the set up works that you could take your favorites list, Bond, make sure that they could get through. So maybe the night before you just adjust your favorites lists of people who are real true emergency? Yes, I will wake up in the middle of night to come and help
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Speaker 2: you do whatever it is that you
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Speaker 1: need, um, people and and keep them on because it's like it. It does have different settings. So look into it. And definitely, um you there are times when you can't get around this if you have to have your phone on for emergencies. Um, but do what you
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Speaker 2: use it for an alarm. It's gonna be by your bed and on.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and do what you can. Thio talk with people and let them know you're not someone to text or to call that late or that early. Um, that's certainly something I've done. Like, I've let my friends who have to be in at work at eight. AM No, that I sleep later than they dio. And I'm very sorry,
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Speaker 2: but I'd really appreciate if you just wait until, like, business hours to text me. So you're really taking some responsibility as someone who likes to have that phone near you?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, has thio. I mean, it's the only phone I have If something does go wrong or if you know, I don't I don't know. There's We woke up this morning to a couple inches of snow. If we wake up to a couple feet of snow, you know, maybe the office is closed. It's nice to know those things, but, um, you don't always wanna be waking up for them. So I do suggest talk to your friends who are really bad about it, but also search around for a device that has some kind of a silencing or do not disturb feature. And good luck. Try. I hope you get better sleep. So this is a really classic question right after the holidays. And, um I tend, we've We've answered it before, but we're going after it again because it's it's very, you know, point in time of year to be talking about it.
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Speaker 1: This letter comes from Grandma.
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Speaker 1: How do you handle this problem when you send kids and grandkids gifts of money on birthdays and Christmas, etcetera, and you've never received a thank you call or text? Sincerely frustrated Grandma, I just want to say, before Dan answers this question, I love that Grandma's not even asking for a thank you note. She's asking for a call or a text. Thank
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Speaker 2: you, Grandma, for reminding us and for taking that bold step forward into the 21st century, being ready toe to receive a text from your grandkids. Although thes days that's that is becoming more and more common. I'm hearing from more and more people that that would be a level of acknowledgement and acceptance that they would. They would receive well and appreciate, and they're recognizing that's the communication currency these days. And while it's not as personal as a hand written note, it does feel like a very personal form of communication to a lot of people, so definitely keep that in your list of options, as you think about good ways to get in touch and thank people in this new year,
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Speaker 1: this at least allows them to know that darn gift was received well. And as
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Speaker 2: Lizzie alluded, this is a such a classic etiquette question. It's one of the examples I used to illustrate how some etiquette really doesn't change that. My great great grandmother used to get questions about grandkids that don't send thank you notes, and my grandmother did, and my mother did. And here we're getting them today on the podcast. So thank you for keeping that strong tradition alive also. So
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Speaker 1: then the
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Speaker 2: question really becomes, What are you going to do about it If you find yourself in this situation where you sent a gift and you haven't heard from anybody? You know this is one of those times where it's really perfectly appropriate to call and ask, and it might even be the time for one of those classic. When you I feel statements, it's time to be really direct.
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Speaker 1: These air your kids so it's OK. It's not like there are other people's kids. It's not like it's your boss or something. And
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Speaker 2: Lizzie's reminded me in the past if your mother sent you a gift and then you just she heard nothing from you. Absolutely nothing,
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Speaker 1: because she's saying call or text. So we're talking nothing here that she would
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Speaker 2: want to know, and she would probably feel pretty comfortable saying, You know, Dan, I really want to hear that something's been received. It really matters to me that you get some kind of thank you out to me and it could be a text. It could be a call. It could be a hand written note. That would be amazing. It would make me feel so good. But really, it's important to me that I that I get that thanks or appreciation, That's part of the gift. And
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Speaker 1: I'm going to say, Grandma, if you have to go further, you can say I'm not going to send any more gifts until I do receive a thank you for the last gifts I sent. It's
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Speaker 2: true. It's true if
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Speaker 1: you ask any seven year old what to do If someone hasn't thank you for a gift, they say, don't send them another one. It's like classic seven
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Speaker 2: year olds are
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Speaker 1: ruthless. They're ruthless
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Speaker 2: and and there and there. But their logic is also very concrete. They say if you don't get that thank you note you don't send the next gift, I'm gonna be a little more lenient and say give him another shot. Send them another one. Once you re establish the standard, give them a chance to do it right. But but definitely let them know how you feel because you want that you want to set them up for success, and you want to let them know how much it matters.
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Speaker 1: However, I like the language that Dan used to talk about how you feel, because what other people tend to do is they'll tend Thio, try to get into some long lecture. You should like you should. This is important. It gives your kids a chance to practice handwriting. You're like, Okay, you do not need to throw every reason at the book. The reason that Dan stated it matters to me is the Onley one you need as the matriarch of this family.
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Speaker 2: So there you go. A classic answer to a classic question. We really hope that helps and get those. Thank you notes in the mail.
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Speaker 1: Oh, and as an aside, you could always send them thank you notes as their next Christmas and birthday gifts. That way, they have them ready to send to you might be that subtle, passive aggressive hint. Anyway, good luck with the Birthdays and Christmases next year. Our
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Speaker 2: next question comes from a listener who says, I'm totally smitten with your post. I got turned on to it last week and binge, listen to the rest immediately. Can't wait for Mawr. Thank you. My question is about an annoying co worker. He sits right across from me and talks constantly. We'll all be working, and then he'll bring up a random story or comment, usually about something from a week before he means well. And I don't
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Speaker 1: wanna be
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Speaker 2: rude, but it's incredibly distracting and frustrating. Not engaging with him doesn't work. He kind of just keeps going. The problem is, I don't want to say that I can't talk during the day because I don't want to not talk to anyone. Just generally find him annoying and incapable of taking social cues. Please advise. Keep up the great work. Anonymous
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Speaker 1: O Anonymous. I feel your pain. It's and and also this is this is the thing that I kind of hate about our society today is that we're in a place where it feels like you're not allowed, like when when he or she says, Um, I don't want to say that I can't talk to their today because I don't want to not talk to anyone That is so frustrating to me because she should be able to say, I don't want to talk right now. I have to work and obviously in a nicer way than what I just said, But, um, and still be able to go have a break at the, you know, at the kitchen or wherever. I mean, you and I take our breaks in the kitchen. So that's what I'm thinking of but and not feel like that's all of a sudden bad or taboo or off limits, exactly like I hate that sort of all or nothing black and white. Oh, you didn't hear what you didn't do it. They're type thing. It's like, you know what? Life's a little messier than that. Anyway, this is a really tough one, and, um, like you said, it's It's clear that you do that. You understand. He means, well, your coworker who's gabbing too much. Um, I think personally that you have two options. Either A. You can talk directly to him. Say something like, You know, Ryan, could I ask you for something, please? I've been having trouble concentrating. When you start to tell a story or start up a conversation while we're working, Do you think that we could save it for our brakes? Perfectly acceptable. There's nothing wrong with it. You're probably never going to get rid of the fact that you have to interact with this person, and you should pay a little bit of attention to them throughout the day because you work so closely together, but also at the same time.
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Speaker 1: If it's interfering with your work, that's a problem. And you do have to speak up about it, so feel confident in having that conversation. Thea, other way that you could handle this is sort of like in the moment requests, which is kind of like that reinforcement a little bit. It's a little bit like like negative reinforcement. So in this case, when he starts telling a story, then you say Hey, Ryan, could we talk about that later? I really gotta concentrate right now. And then the next time he starts up Hey, Ryan, I really gotta focus on this at the moment. Find about three or four different ways to say it and then cycle through them and then say, Hey, I love to hear that story you wanted to tell me. Let's go grab a cup of coffee and just once in a while invite him to tell the story. I think that's
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Speaker 2: brilliant. You're maintaining the relationship with the co worker, and you're also you're being consistent and you're really addressing it in the moment and you're gonna have co workers that are difficult. I love that idea of in the moment request. I think that's brilliant
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Speaker 1: because you dio sometimes it's better to take someone aside and talk about something that's an overarching problem, but it doesn't always mean that they're actually going to stop doing it. So by doing it in the moment and doing it gently, I'm not saying tell them to shut up. You never want to do that, but you do. You are going to need to repeat this over and over until he gets out of his system. The idea that it's okay to just be talking over the cubicle wall at someone without thereby in. And this is
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Speaker 2: a social skills and a work skill. Because it's true, you
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Speaker 1: need to be able to
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Speaker 2: focus on your work. And
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Speaker 1: it's
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Speaker 2: an important part of being a professional that you establish those boundaries and whether you establish them immediately in the moment or you have to escalate it and talk more broadly about boundaries at work. Um, it's it's It's definitely something you don't need to feel bad about.
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Speaker 1: No. Either way, feel confident. Step up, and hopefully you'll be able to get more done in this new year. Good luck. Our next listener has a wedding question. So I'm going to be tossing it to Daniel since he's going to be getting his wedding on this year. All right. Even though
00:16:45
Speaker 2: you're the wedding expert.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, right. E have attended a few. Alright, love your show. Daniel. Congrats on your engagement. I'm engaged to and have a question for you to regarding wedding etiquette. My fiance and I got an engagement gift from a family we were not planning on inviting to our wedding, wondering if we're now obligated to invite them, given that they were so excited for us that they got us something special right away. It's not that we're having a small wedding, we're not. Nor that we don't love them, we dio. But we have to draw the line somewhere. Is this something that calls for stretching that line and including them on our wedding day? Thank you. Anonymous.
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Speaker 2: Well, anonymous. Thank you for your congratulations. And congratulations to you Also, I should say best wishes.
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Speaker 1: Oh, that's so tacky. That's old. Okay, wait. We're gonna take half a second to break out. All right? So the old tradition is that you say best wishes to the bride, and you say congratulations to the groom. Now, I am, like, the least feminist e girl in the world, but, like, I literally hate that because it's like saying, Oh, good luck to you with them, honey. Like best wishes and hold on. Wait a second. I'm still going on, then. Congratulations. It's like, Hey, man, you got her way to go. It's like, just say congratulations to everybody. It's not. And the reason for it used to be that it used to be considered rude to say congratulations to a woman because it was like saying, Hey, you bagged a good one. But I think it could be equally is rude If you say congratulations to a dude, I mean, I don't know. I knew that was the
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Speaker 2: origin of why you didn't say it. I didn't know it was okay to say it to a man. Traditionally, also that Z
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Speaker 1: congratulations to a man.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was acceptable.
00:18:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, You thought it was best wishes to everybody. See, I think that sounds really nice, but it's when they break it apart and say best wishes to the bride. And congratulations to the groom that I'm like. That sounds like what? Thank you.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Wedding expert.
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Speaker 1: 00 touche. All right, let's get to the question. Sorry. So what should she dio? Let's take the
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Speaker 2: questions in order. First, are you obligated to invite these people know you're not obligated They someone cannot force their way into your wedding by hearing about it and sending a gift. That's a preemptive engagement gift.
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Speaker 1: I love that. Look, I like how you just get to strip strategy I'm sorry. You, um, having
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Speaker 2: said that and wedding guest list are incredibly personal decisions. They're based on budget and all kinds of factors. And you're not ever expected to invite anybody or to explain your reasoning Anybody, why they weren't invited. Having said that, this is one of those situations where I would really look at that guest list and say Is, is this in the border territory where we might or might not invite them? And could we stretch that border just a little bit? It clearly does show some real care on their part. They really are invested in in this new couple enough that they really want to share their excitement with you. And those
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Speaker 1: might be the kinds of people you wanna
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Speaker 2: have it your wedding when when you stop to think about it, it's a pretty special thing on. And, um, the one little caveat that I would add to that answer is if they received a nen vitae shin to an engagement party or came to an engagement party, then they're absolutely you're absolutely obligated to invite them to the wedding. It doesn't sound like that's the case here. It sounds like they just heard about the engagement and sent together. So you've got a little more latitude here, But But this is one of those cases where there might be some real rewards to be reaped by stretching a little bit, thinking about including these folks, if it's possible.
00:20:16
Speaker 1: Well, and remember, too, that you don't know that they're gonna be able to say yes. And you also don't know who else is going to say no. And about 10% of your list really does wind up not being able to attend the wedding. So they, you know, you might actually have room for these folks. And you don't have to do this with everybody that sends you an engagement gift that you weren't thinking of. It's just it is. You know, like you said, you love them and and they are. And they sent a really super special gift. So there is an
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Speaker 2: obligation here. Send them a thank you know,
00:20:45
Speaker 1: please. Yes, no matter what you have to do that good luck to you.
00:20:50
Speaker 2: And congratulations. Our next question asks.
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Speaker 2: My etiquette question is something I've been dealing with my entire life. Now that I'm in my late twenties I think it's high time I figure out a solution. My name is Julianna, like Montana for my entire life. About 90% of the people I encounter mispronounced. My name is Juliana like sauna. Almost immediately after I introduced myself, teachers, co workers and even longtime friends make this mistake. I find it extremely difficult, especially with coworkers. I've known for years to correct people. On this point. I feel too timid to correct people. I've only just met. Doesn't it seem rude to quickly correct someone you've just met about pronunciation and embarrassed to correct people I've known for a long time? I have a number of close friends who five let mispronounced my name for years. I would greatly appreciate any tips or tricks you have for correcting pronunciation without coming off poorly. This has bothered me for years and I'd love to figure out a new way to tackle this issue. Thank you. And happy holidays.
00:21:49
Speaker 1: Oh, this is such a tough one. It is your name. This is like what? I mean, I get mad when people spell my name with a why, like and for all of those listeners who have spelled my name with the why there's no way you could have known. I mean, a lot of times you just hear it and then you look us up and that's it. It's not like, don't worry, but I really do. Lizzie's with wiser, different from Lizzie's with ice. It's just different world. Julianna is different than Juliana. I have a friend who is Marissa, not Marissa. And so it's It's your name and you should get called. You know, you're you should get your name right. You should be able to hear it and feel confident that people are saying it correctly, if anything, just so that you know they're talking to you. Um, you've let this go on for a really long time,
00:22:35
Speaker 1: and I do have some thoughts on that for you. Um and I hope you like them because it's going to take a little bit of confrontation, but you're gonna get your name said right, which is gonna be awesome. Um, you you absolutely should correct people. And you should correct people assume as possible because you're worried about correcting someone you've just met. Guess what? They're gonna be super embarrassed if they've been pronouncing your name incorrectly. for a long time or from right off the bat. I know that. Um uh, do you get ever get those people call you Emily?
00:23:08
Speaker 1: No. You don't get this being a female in this In this business, I get called Emily a lot, and it is important to me to correct it because I'm not Emily. I'm Lizzy. And I would like to be Lizzie s o take heart and just have the confidence to say Oh, you know, actually, it's pronounced Julianna. Um and you could even say like, Montana or something like that, uh, to give someone that little reminder. Because it does. For some people, it is just hard and they forget, and they don't mean to mispronounce your name. They just dio
00:23:40
Speaker 2: They grew up with Juliana's
00:23:42
Speaker 1: sampling, um, for friends and colleagues, you know, who for a long time have been calling you the wrong thing. It's totally fine to correct them too. And just say, you know, I know I should have said something a long time ago, and I didn't. But my name's actually pronounced Julianna, and that is totally fine. And it's okay for you to kind of get on a kick of correcting the people around you for a little bit so that you get your name said right.
00:24:07
Speaker 1: I think it's a
00:24:08
Speaker 2: question of tone as much a Z even what you say If you say it the way Lizzie just said it, you're gonna be in fine shape if you are able to keep an edge out of your voice. If you are feeling, um ah, little peeved about this. Maybe that's not the perfect moment to mention it. But when you've got a light heart, go ahead and say something and and that's going to make it easy for other people to hear that advice and take it with
00:24:30
Speaker 1: totally. I've also had friends of friends do this. Which is S O. I have a friend, uh, Gillian, and her name is spelled G. I l l A and often people think it's Gillian and even I wind up calling her Jill sometimes. And I remember we were out to lunch with another girl friend of ours and, uh, this girlfriend. I slipped and I called Gil Jill, and she was the one that corrected me, as opposed to Gil being the one to correct me and sometimes that's really, really nice. So I hope some of your friends are listening and that when they're introducing you to people and the person pronounces it wrong there, the one to step in and say Julianna eso Julianna We hope that that helps, and we hope that you have the confidence and a few options to be able. Thio. Correct this and live in your thirties, which you said your late twenties. So they're coming up soon, Um, being called the right name.
00:25:25
Speaker 2: So we want to tackle our next question before the holidays get too far into the rear view mirror. This is a question about holiday parties. It begins. Thank you for your show. And considering my question, A friend of mine recently had a holiday party, her party's air, wonderful events with a lot of thought and preparation. She sends out email invites and requires an R S v p. This isn't to say the guests aren't allowed to bring a plus one. However, after her party this year, she recounted the most awkward situation that happened during her party. And I said this would be a great one to submit to you guys. I hope you don't mind that I'm submitting on behalf of someone else. So during the party, a person contacted her on Facebook, asking if he could join her party. It was already around 10 p.m. This person had come to her party with a guest two years ago, had friended her on Facebook, but they have not spoken or seen each other since. She didn't know how he even knew about the party because it's not like it was on Facebook. But she also felt it would be rude not to respond. Her friends suggested that she tell them they were running low on bourbon and ice so he could come. If he showed up with those things. He showed up with Onley bourbon. How should she have handled this? I thought she could have ignored the Facebook request Mid party because she could have not even been on Facebook. But maybe that's less acceptable with messenger. Thanks again, Katie.
00:26:39
Speaker 1: So part of what Katie's friend is dealing with is a the fact that Facebook tells you when you've seen a message. So if she clicks on it, she she then has shown that she's seen it and and and You know, he can tell that she's just playing. Ignoring
00:26:53
Speaker 2: Welcome to the brave
00:26:55
Speaker 1: New World lesson A. Definitely don't check your messages if you don't want to have to deal with anything like this. All right. Um, lesson be is I'm okay, so two wrongs don't make a right. Um, I don't I don't think what he did was totally appropriate. I don't think it's totally off the wall on Lee. Okay. From a medical standpoint, yes. He's inviting himself to a party. He wasn't invited. Teoh. It is a party he has attended in years past. But it sounds like he was the guest of a guest. He was plus one. Okay, good. It must
00:27:30
Speaker 2: have been a good party. Two years later,
00:27:32
Speaker 1: he's still remembering it. Now people go through all kinds of different things and, you know, maybe he's having a hard time. Maybe he, you know, wants to be around people. Maybe he needs to start getting out more. So he's trying to put himself out there. Say, Hey, that was a good party. I'll go to that like, I would love to go to that again. And, um, I kind of in some ways give him a little bit of credit for for reaching out in such. But I also don't want to say that that's actually OK. It's not OK to just invite yourself to someone's party, especially at 10 p.m. When the party is probably pretty kick in. So on the one hand, there's there's a part of me that says you are inviting yourself way late in the game and the other part of me says, Well, you're inviting yourself way late in the game. Maybe if it's this kind of big, everyone comes and goes kind of party. Maybe it's not such a big deal to accommodate an extra guest eso as a host. If I was in this situation, that's kind of where my brain would start going like Okay, well, you know, it is like a big party. And I don't love the fact that her friends suggested that she asked him to bring bourbon and ice. It's not a bad idea, all right? It's not a bad idea. E kind of get where you're coming from on it, Um, but I also think that it's like you can come on, Lee, if you bring these things I really hope that's not how she worded it. And because we don't have the message, we really don't know. So I don't want to just assume, but I'm hoping that was done tactfully.
00:28:56
Speaker 1: How should she have handled this? You know, this really depends on her own comfort level. Is a host. Are you the kind of host that says, the more the merrier. Sure. Just come along, then. It's fine. Is one more person really gonna, you know, break your party? You didn't get ice, but you got some bourbon? Yeah. You know, um, I think if this were to happen to you again A, I would be really cautious about actually checking my Facebook messages during a party. Um, be I would ask myself, you know, what would be the problem with him showing up? Probably not a whole lot. It's probably, you know, if this was a sit down 12 person, you know, seven course dinner? Yes. You could say I'm really sorry, but not tonight. Um, but if this is a pretty casual easy to accommodate, one more extra guest party more the merrier.
00:29:45
Speaker 2: Sounds good to
00:29:46
Speaker 1: me. I didn't have any thoughts on that. did we, Dan? No. I mean, I think that that does
00:29:51
Speaker 2: pretty much cover it. I mean, it's not like they were. They were on the hook for a dish that was an important part of a meal that they failed to bring or something like that. This was a little come on
00:30:00
Speaker 1: over, bring a little
00:30:01
Speaker 2: something, and the person brought a little something.
00:30:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely an awkward situation. Um, you do have a couple solutions for the future. Um, in the end of the day, it is truly upped to you. Is the host whether or not you want to say yes or you want to ignore it. Um and, you know, even I'm even thinking of that Facebook message being seen. You can tap on one and not actually read the darn thing. So you even have an excuse there, and I'm
00:30:26
Speaker 2: going to say you're not necessarily obligated to respond to that. Leave a message.
00:30:30
Speaker 1: Definitely not
00:30:31
Speaker 2: fighting themselves to your party. So really, the heart of the etiquette advice there is it's really up to you. Having said that, this person is welcome to come over. You probably wanna receive them graciously. Exactly.
00:30:42
Speaker 2: You hear that,
00:30:44
Speaker 2: she says. You're not as
00:30:45
Speaker 1: rude as you used to be.
00:30:47
Speaker 1: What do you thanks
00:30:49
Speaker 2: again to everyone for sending in your questions and getting us started off in 2000 and 15 on the right foot, you can submit your next question toe Awesome etiquette. Emily post dot com You can also send them India, Facebook and Twitter. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette so that we know you want it on the show.
00:31:05
Speaker 1: So each week we like to give you a little bit of an alternative segment. In fact, that's just what we call it. We've never come up with a great name for this segment. Um, Dan, what have we got this week? Well, sometimes
00:31:18
Speaker 2: in Lizzie's in my editorial meetings will call this the etiquette history segment. So today I want to start 2000 and 15 with one of my favorite little pieces of personal etiquette history. And it's another story from the life of Emily Post. We finished off, Not not the year. Yeah, we finished off last year with a little story about Emily's father, and it got me. Thinking about her is such a remarkable personality, and there's another life event of Emily's that is really worth worth sharing with our audience are dedicated etiquette fans. And
00:31:48
Speaker 1: that was
00:31:48
Speaker 2: that. Emily Post was a divorce. A Emily Post was, ah, single working mother who wrote to support herself. And this fact surprises a lot of people that know that Emily Post was working and writing in the 1920. She wrote her first book of etiquette in 1922.
00:32:05
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I mean, but it surprises people because they think of her is just a very wealthy socialite. So the surprise is actually that she was a writer and a single mother and that she had been divorced in, like, 10 so
00:32:18
Speaker 2: uncommon at the time for a woman in her situation to be divorced, her to get divorced. It just wasn't This was many, many years before California divorced on, and, um,
00:32:29
Speaker 2: it was the result of, ah, scandalous affair. And that's the particular story that I wanted to share today. Um, Emily was married to Edwin Post, and he was Ah, young man was very dashing. Emily was married young. She came out at 19 and, uh, chose the most handsome available husband at the time or they chose each other
00:32:52
Speaker 1: just to be clear, for some of our listeners who might not know coming out used to be when you were presented to society so that you were eligible as a young woman to literally be married be recorded and Mary that it is now. Okay, you are being presented to society. Um, and that that term, since most you know, has has taken on a different connotation. It usually means that you are out and proud to be a part of the gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender community. However, back in Emily's Day it was a little bit different. Good, good point of
00:33:28
Speaker 2: distinction for a contemporary audience. Um,
00:33:30
Speaker 1: just clarify.
00:33:32
Speaker 2: So Emily was was married young and dutifully played the role of a wife for about 10 years. Um, two kids kept, kept a home. Social events. Her husband was, ah, stockbroker and had some success in the market. But like many people who gambled on the market, his fortunes would rise and fall. Um, like other men of his time, he also had a aside.
00:34:01
Speaker 1: Oh, he was a philanderer. He was a philanderer. He had a mistress that he kept in an
00:34:06
Speaker 2: apartment downtown, and he got caught by a tabloid
00:34:10
Speaker 1: well, and she was an actress. Which giant irony. This is exactly what Emily wanted to be her whole life and was told that she couldn't be
00:34:17
Speaker 2: wouldn't be appropriate
00:34:18
Speaker 1: here. Her husband is cheating on her with an actress while she's
00:34:22
Speaker 2: at home, dutifully taking care of the kids in the home. Which, as we learned by what ah, what incredible woman she became later in life probably wasn't the most fulfilling and satisfying. Not at
00:34:32
Speaker 1: all. You have things to say
00:34:34
Speaker 2: eso her husband gets caught in an affair by a tabloid, and there was, ah, form of extortion that used to go on. At the time,
00:34:42
Speaker 1: you would have to buy subscriptions to the tabloid. It was it was actually a newspaper, and the newspaper had a section that was called, like the Town Teller or something.
00:34:51
Speaker 2: Well, tattletales, something government called a tattletale. This was that type of ah, gossip column or Gossip rag, and they would approach and industrialists and say, you know, our circulations a little low. We really could could use maybe 500 subscriptions to be
00:35:05
Speaker 1: 1000 try or, like, 1000. Yeah, a lot of money that they were charging her.
00:35:09
Speaker 2: If you could buy Subscriptions Door magazine, we wouldn't need to post this salacious story that's clearly going to sell that's gonna sell newspapers.
00:35:16
Speaker 1: And guess what? It's a salacious story about you.
00:35:21
Speaker 2: So Mr Post at the time was perhaps experiencing a low ebb and his fortunes on the market and couldn't afford to pay the bribe. Some people think it might have been a principled stand. Some people think it might have had to do with the fact that he simply couldn't afford it at the time. So he was forced to tell his wife, Emily, about the affair. They decided that they couldn't or wouldn't pay the bribe, they told the police, and the sting went down. Police hid in the closet. Money changed hands. Arrests were made, and this scandal hit the front pages of the papers with some force and climbed through the ranks of New York society people who were much more powerful and influential than the posts were impacted and affected. And when it was all done, Emily asked for a divorce and,
00:36:00
Speaker 1: yeah, she told him in the beginning that I will do this with you, but we're getting a divorce at the end of it.
00:36:06
Speaker 2: So there was Emily with two kids and several properties. We learned that her father was an architect on the last podcast, and so she had properties. But she didn't have a steady income. And she wrote She'd written her first romance novel the year before, and she continued to write romance novels for some time. And that was really how she supported herself. She did some other types of work, but she was really someone who was who was working hard to figure out a way to survive in the world. And it was when she was doing that particular work that she was approached to write her first book of etiquette, and
00:36:41
Speaker 1: and we will continue with that story on the S A s.
00:36:48
Speaker 2: Um, I want to close out the old segment by inviting you to read the official biography of Emily Post written by Laura Claridge. It really is remarkable. It came out now 45 years ago, and we were so excited that someone outside the family really did the exhaustive work of researching Emily's life and putting together a really authority telling of that story. So for those of you that are really interested in this story and wanna learn mawr, I couldn't recommend highly enough Laura Claridge's biography of Emily Post
00:37:15
Speaker 1: s Social Courtesy Does Pay doesn't thanks
00:37:30
Speaker 1: Each week we like to end our show on a positive note with an awesome etiquette salute to someone who is out there making the world a nicer place. And this week salute comes from David Boils, and he writes, Hi, Dan Lizzie. I'm a big fan of the podcast and just wanted to pass along this nomination for your weekly good etiquette salute. My town's Facebook page posted the letter below, in which a town resident expresses gratitude to to sanitation workers for helping her. And I thought the sanitation workers and the letter writer all deserve a salute. I don't know any of the people involved, but I thought it was a great example of good etiquette all around. Thanks, David Boyle's. So this is what David had found?
00:38:14
Speaker 1: Um, it was a woman named Mitzi Smith who wrote to the town of Temple Terrace, and she writes, Dear City of Temple terrorists. I wanted to take a moment and send a quick email indicating how much I appreciate two gentlemen that work for the city of Temple Terrace. Eric Williams and Mark Coleman are absolutely fabulous and true gentleman. On Wednesday, my cousin and I were cleaning off my front porch and I had three large bookshelves. I was struggling to move to the street. Mark and Eric stopped what they were doing and jumped to my rescue by moving these for me. Completely unprompted, I had been having a very tough week due to my grandmother's passing. I mentioned this to explain how heartened I was by their help. Helping me move some bookshelves may seem like a small task, but that one small kindness lifted my spirits when I needed to be reminded that the world is not as dismal as I had been seeing it.
00:39:04
Speaker 1: There are people who care. Kindness begets kindness, and I will make certain to pay it forward. Thank you, Mitzi Smith. I love it. I love a salute for a salute. And I tell you, these are the kind of people that I really hope to run into during my day.
00:39:27
Speaker 1: Well, now, wasn't that better?
00:39:29
Speaker 1: Look at the effect of a little politeness.
00:39:33
Speaker 1: Yes, that's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful week, as always. And we hope that you are enjoying a very lovely start to 2015. Remember that we love to hear from you. So send us your questions, your etiquette salutes and your suggestions to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. If you like what you hear, you can always subscribe on iTunes. And if you dig us, we would love if you'd write a review. Um, we want to connect with you anyway that we can. So, please, um, you know, we invite you to participate. You can find us on Facebook. Where? The Emily Post Institute on Twitter. I am at Lizzie a post.
00:40:11
Speaker 2: And I'm Daniel Underscore Post.
00:40:13
Speaker 1: Or you can visit our website. Emily Post calm. And our theme music was and still is composed by Bob Wagner.
