Episode 26 - I’m Just Gonna Be Your Mom Tonight

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Speaker 1: florida. I just want to say that from a hospitality standpoint, you really weren't shining, you really should have had more sun maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy,

00:00:14

Speaker 1: watch, act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:00:27

Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of awesome etiquette. Our podcast comes to you from the studios of Vermont Public radio and is part of the Infinite Guest network from american public media. I'm lizzie post and I'm dan post Senning from the Emily Post Institute,

00:00:42

Speaker 1: we're back. We actually haven't been at the microphone for two weeks now. We are like ships crossing in the night. We have been two weeks ago, I was down in new york city, we were filming our season two of awkward moments which is a really fun kind of edgy warning some not appropriate for kids. Season one was a little

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Speaker 1: Reggie. Just keep saying it. But it was, it was really fun. I love working with corn heber brown, they're really wonderful people and I'm really excited to see how season two turns out because it's going to be a little bit different. Well you say edgy, I say a great risk, great phrase, a great risk, take a little chance every once in a while and when you're trying to combine etiquette and humor, there's always a, it's, it's a bit of a trap, You're either the straight man or you're the butt of the joke, right? And I'm not sure what I want. I think I wound up being a little bit of both maybe.

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Speaker 1: Um, but it is a lot of fun and we're really excited to see how those turn out. You can catch them on you live dot com. That's the letter U L I V E dot com.

00:01:44

Speaker 1: And so that was a little business but there was also a little pleasure and in between there was a little flu. I like, no, I have to give a shout out to JetBlue and the wonderful flight attendant heather. My flight was delayed saturday night coming back from new york city

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Speaker 1: and as it was delayed, the more it got delayed, the more I felt the flu setting in for real. I had woken up that morning with swollen glands and just feeling sick

00:02:07

Speaker 1: but it was starting to set in and we got boarded onto the plane and then wound up with a major delay. We were probably delayed an hour more just sitting on the tarmac and in that time my fever set in and I was burning up.

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Speaker 1: Not only did she ask the person sitting next to me to go sit somewhere else, she got him a better seat, which I thought was a really tactful way of handling it. She covered me in ice packs. She got, she got me tea with like um lemon and honey for my throat

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Speaker 1: and she just kept checking up on me and she just looked at me and she said I'm just going to be your mom tonight and I was like, you know, sometimes

00:02:41

Speaker 1: that might make some people a little uncomfortable to be honest when you're trapped on the tarmac, all you can smell is that like God awful de icer, It's painful and you just feel like you can't breathe and

00:02:53

Speaker 1: she totally took care of me so heather at JetBlue you rock regardless. It led to me being like terrified I was going to be sick on vacation because as you know, I was going on vacation with another family which is a little overwhelming. You're like, oh my gosh, what's it gonna be like? There were four or six kids all under the age of 10, 2 couples. And then the woman that I babysit for who's a friend of mine had invited me to come down and join her on this trip and it's that thing where you're like, I really am on someone else's vacation. So

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Speaker 1: my mentality going into it is I'm just gonna go with the flow

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Speaker 1: and you know, it was amazing when they picked me up from the airport, her brother and my friend what they talked about was you only have so many days down here, we want to make sure you get to do what you want to do. It was the perfect host and guest dance and it made me so comfortable because I was worried that if I wasn't feeling well enough to go do the amusement parks in Orlando or whatever

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Speaker 1: that I was going to be, you know, dragged around or that I was gonna feel really guilty for being like, oh you brought me down to florida. I'm going to stay at your dad's condo while you all go down and do the amusement park thing with the kiddies. Luckily I wound up feeling great. I went with them. These kids were so well behaved for an entire day at the park. Everyone got along, I had the best time getting to know her brother and sister and their families better.

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Speaker 1: The sun might not have been shining, but let me tell you, it was a great vacation and minus 20 I think three days in a row while you were away. So it's like 80 80 degree difference in temperature will do a lot. What were you up to while I was gone? I was sitting around being jealous, just sitting around being jealous. No, we held the fort down and definitely prepping for my own trip as you can see with me in studio is my laundry. When I get to the office, I'll pack it into the garment bag

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Speaker 1: and and off to L. A. For a little vacation of my own. As you know, this weekend I'm going to a great big indian wedding with pooch out in Los Angeles, but this is not pooja's relatives. No, it's a high school friends, a friend of hers from high school, I'm about to play the guest dance myself. I will be house guested by L. A. Friends will be hosted practically family

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Speaker 1: and going to a great big wedding in a very different tradition than I'm used to. But it's a little bit of a trial run. I can trial run. Yeah, because you've got a great big indian wedding of my own coming. Yeah. So I'm super, super excited and updates will be forthcoming. I like it. Well, shall we get to some listener questions?

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Speaker 1: All right, sure you're right. But there's so much to learn how to do. Sure there's a lot to learn, but it's worth it. And learning is easy. One way is by watching others on each and every episode of awesome etiquette. We take your questions on how to behave. Let's get started.

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Speaker 1: Do you think sometimes we should take their questions on how to be rude? Do you think we should do that?

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Speaker 1: I think that would be kind of fun for something different. A little turnaround show now for something completely different. Anyway, our question begins, my boss and I are a team of two and are relatively close, we are friends on facebook as is most of the company

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Speaker 1: and although we don't get too in depth about our personal lives and don't spend time together outside of work.

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Speaker 1: I do know that he split up with his longtime girlfriend and now I am 99% sure that he's dating one of our colleagues

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Speaker 1: based on their sudden friendship and events that they have both attended and posted about on social media, I'm pretty certain about this for the most part, they are very professional and discreet. However,

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Speaker 1: we, my boss and I have started working closely with this colleague on a project and it has become a bit awkward for me. My boss and I are technically managing her on this project and I feel that my boss is not able to act objectively and that I'm not able to bring up concerns about our working situation.

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Speaker 1: For example, the colleague has been sending multiple emails a day asking for feedback on the project. I told my boss that the number of emails has become a bit distracting and wished that she would save her questions for our face to face meetings.

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Speaker 1: My boss said that he could understand how the barrage of emails would be bothering other people on the email chain, but thought that we needed to hear all of the questions since

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Speaker 1: we are the advisors on this project, maybe he's right, or maybe he doesn't find them bothersome because she's his girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Should I speak to my boss about it?

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Speaker 1: He has never acknowledged the relationship to me, so I hesitate to intrude on his personal life or is there someone else I can speak to without outing their relationship any help is greatly appreciated, sincerely. Ryan,

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Speaker 1: complicated indeed. Our professional lives in our personal lives, they're supposed to be this firewall and yet it's so impossible to really live like that. And Ryan has no idea if this is actually a thing or if he's just perceiving it because maybe they're friends now and that's why he's been seeing an interaction. I like that before we dive into the answer that you're acknowledging there's some ambiguity in this question that nothing is known like key. It's like paramount to our answer. The answer is no, you definitely don't talk to him about it. No, you're going to leave that personal life as personal life until it's brought up or Yeah, exactly expressed or made explicit in the office in some way that it becomes appropriate to address it.

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Speaker 1: There are all kinds of work issues going on here that are entirely appropriate and valid to address. So the particular behavior, the work behavior that's problematic. A barrage of emails and

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Speaker 1: assumption that someone's gonna going to give you their attention whether or not you're in charge of them and and have the right to demand it. So how should he handle the particular work issue, the stuff that he can address since we know he can't address the issue of the girlfriend. Sure,

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Speaker 1: Naruing girlfriend alleged girlfriend 99% convinced girlfriend

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Speaker 1: probably pretty sure it's actually a new girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Um you and you do, you've got to do your best to ignore that. Um, and and not let a tone of I know better and I'm right about this creep into the rest of your communication because really from my perspective, a barrage of emails, there are worse things to be dealing with. You could take some control of that the way you can take control of any situation. So you know, I'm going to open these when I check this email and that's going to be at lunch, that's going to be on the hour, that's going to be on whatever timeframe is reasonable for me and and make sense with the rest of the work. And regardless of the girlfriend assumption, that's exactly what our advice would be. If you were receiving emails like this from someone, it would be take control of it of yourself and just say I'm going to save these and collect them all and you can even let the person know,

00:09:43

Speaker 1: send as many as you need to, I'm going to save them for our face to face meeting. Just so you know why I'm not responding immediately. You take control of the expectation around the communication and then

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Speaker 1: you're in charge of what you can most reliably be in charge of which is you your behavior, your reactions, you can

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Speaker 1: look to address the situation if it really becomes problematic or if the person continues to present, why aren't you responding, why aren't you getting back to me in a timely fashion, You can talk to that person directly, you can talk to your boss and you can explain why you don't get back to them as quickly as they might like

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Speaker 1: getting them to change their behavior is going to be harder. Um If you're really supervising them, if they report to you, you could bring it up with them even then ask supervisors, people don't fix everything that you bring up. Um

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Speaker 1: so it really taking control of what you can take control of the heart of our advice here. You're not gonna discuss the personal situation until it comes up. And even then if your boss brings it up as something that they're talking to you about personally, I would respond personally. At first I wouldn't be ready with a list of grievances for when he does finally bring uh this relationship up with your finally reveal this relationship. That would be a moment to to be pleasantly surprised for a minute and then maybe later you might adjust the way that you talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So that's everything about the actual work, the actionable things that that Ryan can do.

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Speaker 1: Here's the more tricky situation. You have an assumption in your head

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Speaker 1: and that's not going to go away and let's face it, these people are probably dating. How do you handle it? When you see them flirt? You're having a meeting, just the three of you and they flirt. We're now going to assume that yes this is happening and Ryan is seeing this with his boss and the girlfriend

00:11:30

Speaker 1: and it's making him actually uncomfortable at work.

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Speaker 1: What do we how do you I'm hearing lizzie post in my head tell me what I'd say and I wish I knew but it would be funny and you'd be in the room with the person and something would be going on where they're sharing like a little inside joke and you're wanting to let them know that you're in on it and you might be like all right, a little subtle to U two or something to that. I I could I could hear it and of course something funny or appropriate. Oh my God, don't do what I do, Ryan. What do you think? Because this is a boss and if they don't have a personal relationship but this is the new personal relationship is being flaunted in Ryan's face when it starts to be a flaunt, then I start to acknowledge it. Okay, let's be honest about the situation. I'm smart enough to see what's going on here and we're not talking about it yet but we can all acknowledge what's going on. Would you say it to both of them or would you wait until it was just you and your boss would depend on the flaunt.

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Speaker 1: Okay. If it was happening between both of them in front of me, I might let them know I'm in on the joke and it might even just be that knowing smile or a little twinkle in the eye when they say something or share a laugh. If it's just with one of them, then I would just do it with that now. What if it's making you really uncomfortable because that's the part where I would probably,

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Speaker 1: because I'm close with my boss at work, I would probably say,

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Speaker 1: hey,

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Speaker 1: I just, I'm sorry, but it became, it became too much for me to not say something and I want to know just simply because if it's not going on, I don't want to be sitting here assuming your actions are, are telling me something they're not

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Speaker 1: and if it, if it is going on, you should just be aware that it's coming through,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of like you're being their friend and saying, hey, your two colors between each other which are amorous are starting to show and

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Speaker 1: that's almost broccoli on the tooth rule, sort of letting someone know, I love thinking about it that way when you got a bat in the cave, like, like I like it,

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Speaker 1: your love's on your sleeve. So I think that or you can treat it like a difficult conversation and then that takes a little bit of social savvy to anticipate how it's going to go. And if you're treating it like a difficult conversation, do it in private, keep the focus on whatever the particular issue is that's problematic for you. So you're talking about that thing,

00:13:47

Speaker 1: you're not saying the relationship that you're having is a problem, but it's the way it's impacting our work life, do it quickly after that thing happens

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Speaker 1: that, you know, it's, it's, and, and make sure it's something that it's pretty obvious you were able to partake in seeing or, or witnessing happen because if you wait,

00:14:02

Speaker 1: trying to get them to remember when they slipped up is going to be harder. So right after that meeting that's uncomfortable for you, that's when you want to take them aside and say, hey,

00:14:12

Speaker 1: alright, I like it, Ryan, good luck, please send us an update and let us know how this is going. We are very curious, maybe it's gossip, but we're kind of, we're intrigued.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's like, you know, hey, you two get a room

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Speaker 1: chris, our sound engineer just announced that his way of handling it would be just saying, hey you two get a room,

00:14:34

Speaker 1: I love his new york bluntness.

00:14:37

Speaker 1: Alright dan's gonna read this next question, but I'm going to start it off by just saying that I really appreciated receiving it. I actually received it from the listener twice and it, it's unfortunate we aren't able to answer every question on the air

00:14:51

Speaker 1: this one, I wanted to get to, but we kind of just had some other questions that were backed up and in line first

00:14:58

Speaker 1: um so I apologize that it took us so long because it is a great question, but what was really cute was the second time it was sent, it came with the hashtag hashtag awesome etiquette in the email and it was really sweet. The woman explained that her son was concerned that maybe because hashtag awesome etiquette wasn't in the email, it wasn't, it wasn't going to get on the show. And I thought just for our little listener out there was our little hockey player out there. I just thought that was so great and so like what an attuned little listener he is and I loved it. And just so that you all know, hashtags actually don't matter in the emails because they're about basically labeling something trending something um categorizing it in a group and that works for social media, so on facebook and twitter, we asked you to use the hashtag,

00:15:43

Speaker 1: but don't worry in your emails, you don't have to

00:15:45

Speaker 1: take it away dan. So this question begins, hi lizzie and Daniel. I really enjoy your podcast. I often listen while driving my Children to their extracurricular activities. It has been great to share your etiquette advice and become better informed with my Children.

00:16:00

Speaker 1: My son plays on an elite traveling hockey team and I'll confess part of the reason this question made the show is

00:16:06

Speaker 1: I played youth hockey growing up from age five to age 18, absolutely love it and I can remember the conversations with my mother driving around two games all over New England and this just warmed my heart to hear this question started with a big hockey family. So we're friends. So to continue parenthetical aside,

00:16:25

Speaker 1: parents often trade traveling weekends, the team travels quite a bit and taking turns helps everyone in a few weeks. The team will be traveling out of state for a tournament. My husband and I realized due to work commitments in a conflict with our daughters activity that weekend, we will be in need of travel help

00:16:40

Speaker 1: on previous trips. When we have sent our son with another family, we send money to cover his hotel, expense food and added extras. We of course intend to do this for this trip as well. I feel very grateful for this family. They are good kind people and we consider them friends and happily host and chaperoned their son and daughter whenever possible. When I approached the dad, he graciously said, yes, no problem. JP is so easy. After I asked seconds after

00:17:05

Speaker 1: it dawned on me that I had unintentionally asked one of our coaches,

00:17:09

Speaker 1: I asked this particular dad because of how much we value and trust the family and the fact that our sons are particularly good friends and a good pair for four days since this family will not be taking us up as a chaperone for a travel free weekend. I'm wondering if there is a special thank you Beyond the thank you card. I have sent to other families after previous travel weekends.

00:17:29

Speaker 1: Thanks for your help. Grateful hockey mom. I love this question because grateful Hockey mom, She's doing so many of the right things off the bat that you can just tell, she's a very considerate and well meaning person. Um, and you get that from her question. She's she's sending her son not just with money for the hotel

00:17:47

Speaker 1: and for the food, but also for a little bit of spending money

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Speaker 1: or in case maybe like a skate breaks or something. I don't know how skates, but you know, in case something happens, there's, there's the extra funds there. So she's not putting that problem on the hosting family and not only that, but she recognizes that the coaches because they're going to attend every single game won't get the opportunity to have that kid free weekend. It is. So I think that the best thing that you can do is offer to um be back up for the parents on some weekend outside of hockey season. So let them know listen any time this summer if you have a wedding to go to or if you guys just need a weekend away, we would love to take, you know, your son or your son and daughter um, for the weekend so that you guys don't have to worry about it. You've been so kind to take JP and we're so glad that the boys have such a good time together. We would love to return the favor for you. That's it. That's it. It's as simple as that. You can always send the thank you note and everything. But I think in this case, you know, you don't need to

00:18:51

Speaker 1: buy a cake or get them a gift certificate to dinner out. I think I think that weekend away kind of having that in the bank would be a good,

00:19:00

Speaker 1: a good thing to pull out and use later. I think it's smart. And you always remind me the power of words, don't don't forget the power of your words tell this person this coach exactly what you told us. You know, usually I look for an opportunity reciprocate and I know that's probably not gonna gonna be possible because you're going to obviously be at every game, but I don't know how much I appreciate it. And if there's anything and then that's a great time to make that offer about the following weekend or

00:19:23

Speaker 1: maybe it's something during the season, maybe it's not a whole weekend. Maybe it's something related to the team. If you ever need help getting jerseys washed or maybe whatever particular banquet that's getting planned for, where they know they're going to need tubs of salad. Right. Right. No, I think that's a good idea. And if you do go the route of offering that that other weekend, I would say

00:19:43

Speaker 1: just send them a reminder in the spring or in the summer

00:19:47

Speaker 1: that way you can like really encourage them to lean on you for it so that it doesn't just come across as that, you know. Oh yeah, I know, I'm supposed to say this now and you are clearly a very genuine person. So I don't think when you say it it'll come across that way, but I say pop back in, in, you know, may or june and say hey

00:20:05

Speaker 1: would, would love to to you know, get on your schedule and if you guys want to go away for a weekend, let us know when we can take the kids, here's one were available. I think that's a nice follow up. Great, well we hope that the rest of the hockey season is awesome and that you guys win in your tournaments and thank you so much for being listeners. Our next question is definitely of the modern, sensitive category. Dear daniel and lizzie

00:20:32

Speaker 1: greetings from Maryland. Hey they listened to us in Maryland, I listened to your podcast, sorry, I listened to your podcast and have learned a lot. I am also glad to know that I was not the only dan who was called Danny by his family growing up.

00:20:50

Speaker 1: I am still called Danny by my relatives to this day.

00:20:56

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:20:56

Speaker 1: Social media and etiquette sometimes mix like oil and water these days, texting RSVPs, putting up photos without permission and so on. But there is one area where I think the old school manners should trump social media

00:21:10

Speaker 1: that is breaking bad news to people, particularly the death of someone first of all before we even get to the rest of this question. Yes dan and I both agree with you that announcing someone's death on social media is something that needs to be handled very delicately to continue. Last year my sister in law died of cancer.

00:21:29

Speaker 1: My niece not her daughter took to facebook to announce it. I was in an airport when I got read the posting. My fear was that my husband would find out the same way I called him at work to find out that another one of his siblings had called him with the news. However,

00:21:47

Speaker 1: in looking at the timestamp of the posting on facebook, it was before my husband was informed

00:21:54

Speaker 1: so technically he could have logged onto facebook and found out that his sister had passed.

00:22:01

Speaker 1: I don't think this is the way one should find out about a loved one's death.

00:22:06

Speaker 1: When I saw my niece later in the year I told her that she should have made sure the immediate family had been notified before posting anything. She said I was old fashioned and posting on social media saves time and goes to a larger audience. I don't agree

00:22:20

Speaker 1: while I'm on my soapbox when my mom died on christmas day several years ago, my sister and I agreed that we wouldn't tell the rest of the family until the next day as it was christmas day.

00:22:31

Speaker 1: However my sister's husband took it upon himself to leave voicemail messages for my mom's siblings informing them of her death. This was done without my knowledge or my sister's knowledge to this day. My mom's relatives want nothing to do with him because of that. He doesn't think he did anything wrong. He was just passing on the news.

00:22:51

Speaker 1: Anyway, am I old fashioned for believing that you should pick up the phone and let people know about someone's passing and then after the family knows put it on social media and what about the voicemail? I don't think a message like that should be left as voice mail. What is the proper way to let a large number of people know about the death of a family member, respectfully dan

00:23:11

Speaker 1: dan. I'd like to start by offering our condolences here. This is a tricky situation anytime someone passes and we've got actually two situations here and a couple of questions about both of them, so I want to take them in order so that we're sure we don't miss anything.

00:23:26

Speaker 1: Uh First thing I'm going to say is something that we very rarely say here about a question that that is not about something in the future, but something in the past, you were definitely right and your niece was wrong.

00:23:36

Speaker 1: Um I don't know how the conversation went between you and her and maybe it could have been handled differently more tactfully in a way that she would be better able to hear the message that you were trying to send.

00:23:47

Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how that conversation went. but I do know the basic point that you were trying to convey is a really important one. An important one to communicate to a young person who's still learning and try to figure out um

00:23:58

Speaker 1: how to how to conduct themselves in the world. And definitely uh while you reach a larger audience and you save time by posting something on facebook there are some things that are that are so important. It's really important to deliver the news personally and the passing of a loved one is one of those times.

00:24:14

Speaker 1: And it's particularly important that close friends and family and particularly immediate family are notified and as personal way as possible as soon as possible.

00:24:24

Speaker 1: I think that's really important. And by posting on social media you trump that news. You take shortcuts that prevent people from hearing from someone who can deliver that message with some care and some compassion. And by having that message delivered, we mean that your niece before she posted.

00:24:43

Speaker 1: What we would have thought proper to do would be to make sure

00:24:47

Speaker 1: that the immediate family members so daughters, sons, brothers and sisters. You know obviously husbands and wives probably no Children, those those close family members, aunts and uncles are notified by phone and not by voice mail

00:25:05

Speaker 1: but that you actually get the person on

00:25:08

Speaker 1: the phone and that once your niece had checked in that from what her family could tell everyone had been communicated with and contacted personally, then she could get the go ahead to post it to facebook or to leave you just, you just don't leave that voicemail. I'm sorry. In this particular case, I would say that one of the questions you ask is what is the most appropriate way to let a large audience? No. And the answer used to be you put an obituary in the paper and that served as the announcement and it served as an announcement to a much larger community because it wasn't necessarily

00:25:40

Speaker 1: um possible or practical to be able to reach every person that would want to know with a personal message.

00:25:46

Speaker 1: So there is a place in social media and and the social media obituary, an announcement on social media of someone's passing is um maybe going to be a very intentional part of a strategy for letting people know there is an appropriate time and way to do that. And it's after you've given the message to people who would really care to hear it in a more personal way, that personal message,

00:26:09

Speaker 1: there isn't an exact right answer. They're going to be different ways that you reach people at different times. If there is a sun and they are traveling in some other part of the world, it might be a telegram that reaches them there, there might be by hooker by crook, you get that news to them any way possible. And it might be that social media is part of that chain that gets that message there. But you really want to be thinking very personally about the people involved and you want to be thinking about immediate family first and people that are,

00:26:35

Speaker 1: that are very close friends, people who are going to be hurt if they hear about this in a way that feels impersonal to them and social media will always feel impersonal just so you know, that's, that's just the nature of it. I mean we've all found out news that way and it definitely feels impersonal.

00:26:53

Speaker 1: I think it's really important to to recognize, I mean I had just talked about it, but you said and what about voicemail and that really isn't a voicemail that you want to leave. Um, I don't think your brother in law did the right thing. I'm going to just say it. Um,

00:27:08

Speaker 1: there is a part of what he did that dan and I both agree is important and

00:27:15

Speaker 1: every family handles death a little bit differently. But we are of the mindset that most people like to know as soon as possible and they're not going to care whether it's christmas day or a birthday or a vacation that you're on and waiting to get back from it. So you don't spoil the good time. I know

00:27:34

Speaker 1: the times where someone has tried to save my

00:27:37

Speaker 1: special day or whatever or the end of my trip. I was always pretty darn annoyed that someone had waited that long to tell me because frankly the passing of someone close to you is something that you you don't want to be delayed on

00:27:51

Speaker 1: and I feel like a managed emotion, it can feel like someone is making decisions for you and for your best interest when really your best interest is to know the truth and to know it as soon as possible.

00:28:03

Speaker 1: So you definitely, the framework here is that you want to deliver the news as soon as possible and you want to deliver it in as personal, away as possible because that's going to be a moment of grief for someone and anything that you can do to soften that blow or offer support and condolence in that moment is going to be so appreciated. It's going to be important part of,

00:28:23

Speaker 1: of the way that moment is remembered. And then beyond that, once, you know that everyone has been contacted, then you can post to social media because we do believe that that is a good way to let extended friends and very extended family know about the passing, but you really want to make sure that

00:28:39

Speaker 1: the branches of the family out from the person who has been deceased or has passed have been contacted first. I want to wrap up by again, offering our condolences. These are always difficult situations and and we wish you the best getting through it. I'm also just going to suggest was either we think about a future post script where we talk about social media at the end of life. I think I think we need to do that because there are a lot of questions about it. There are a number of questions and not the least of which is closing down accounts and managing accounts, managing that online presence after someone passes. There are a lot of really valid important questions there.

00:29:14

Speaker 1: So we'd like to return to that at some point in the future and really give it a deeper dive in the meantime dan we hope that helps.

00:29:20

Speaker 1: Our next question is a classic

00:29:22

Speaker 1: Hello and thank you my inquiries about tipping but not to find out how much to give. I live in a well run building in Brooklyn new york with a fantastic superintendent and attentive dormant

00:29:34

Speaker 1: in the 3.5 years that I've lived here every christmas I've tipped the super about $75 or so give or take $10 this past holiday. I was slammed with an inordinate number of expenses all at the same time and only gave him $30 a week later for New Year's. I also gave him a bottle of Prosecco,

00:29:51

Speaker 1: he delivered the same excellent service this year as he always has.

00:29:55

Speaker 1: He continues to be unfailingly polite when we run into each other but I'm quite sensitive and a, I feel terrible because I haven't known how to address the sudden drop in my tip and reassure him that his service and attitude are appreciated and be feel that his attitude while polite is much cooler. He must be wondering if he did something wrong?

00:30:15

Speaker 1: Maybe I'm projecting onto him, but I don't think so.

00:30:18

Speaker 1: What remedy would you suggest? Best wishes, Jacqueline,

00:30:22

Speaker 1: Jacqueline. This is a difficult one because well we totally understand why you had to give less this year. That is something that we always suggest. You need to explain in the note that you leave with the tip

00:30:35

Speaker 1: and that is the time to do it. It's the time to say um you know dear jim as always your service has been impeccable. I want to apologize that this isn't what I've been able to do in years past but please know that I am so grateful and I hope I hope to be able to do you know the usual next year.

00:30:54

Speaker 1: Um it's it's totally forgivable. It's totally understandable. But you do want to communicate it and what you are feeling is that

00:31:02

Speaker 1: uncertainty. He doesn't know why you've all of a sudden given him less and yet you're still being just as nice to him as you always have been. There's an unspoken nous between you two now and I think you need to speak it. Um I would either leave him a note um and just explaining, you know, I

00:31:21

Speaker 1: I just want you to know that I feel really horrible that I wasn't able to

00:31:25

Speaker 1: because it sounds like you do feel badly. I say just that I wasn't able to do you know what I the normal tip or the normal gift at the holiday season and it has just been weighing on my mind and I wanted to let you know that I am so grateful for your

00:31:39

Speaker 1: continued service and and and the like um dan you look like you really have something you want to say I'm curious. I have a parallel situation, something that happened to me yesterday I got my hair cut and I paid with a credit card and I didn't have cash for a tip.

00:31:52

Speaker 1: It's the same person. I see they it's not possible with their system, they don't accept tips on their credit card there I think has to do with the taxation of the tip and I'm not sure exactly but I know they won't do it and this has happened in the past and so I say to the person who cuts my hair

00:32:07

Speaker 1: I feel really awkward, I don't have a tip for you, I'm going to stop by and give it to you. She says no don't worry about it. Just catch me next time and I say no no no I all feel better if I make up this tip with you would you make a suggestion like that in this situation if you usually do 75 you did 30 because of the financial situation was such at the moment

00:32:27

Speaker 1: when it opens up a little bit. Do you take the difference, drop it in envelopes. Say you know my tip was a little less. That might be a way to do it. But because we don't know when her financial situation is going to open up again, I don't want to say in june go for it because that's going to give her six months of awkwardness until then I think I think you need to address the situation now and then if you would like to do what dan is talking about. Um But I think the first step is to address the awkwardness you're feeling and don't say

00:32:58

Speaker 1: I've been noticing you've been cold or you know because you're right you might be projecting that your I really commend you for thinking that's a possibility.

00:33:06

Speaker 1: Um But instead I would say this has been weighing on my mind and I just felt the need to explain myself and write him a little note. Take him aside and say that one day um I'm sure that that your heartfelt nous will come through and if you're you know it's a it's a genuine statement and that always seems to ring true. So

00:33:25

Speaker 1: make the effort have the conversation or write the note and then if you would like to follow up

00:33:29

Speaker 1: with the compensation for the rest of the tip or maybe a gift certificate to a restaurant you know he likes or something like that. That makes lessons you see this person if not every day as well and that's the thing, she's now gone like two months of awkwardness and I think it's time to address it. So Jaclyn, I hope that gives you some options and we hope that it's a little warmer in your building.

00:33:51

Speaker 1: You hear that

00:33:53

Speaker 1: she says you're not as rude as you used to be. What do you know?

00:33:58

Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone for sending in your questions and remember we love updates. If we answered your question on the show or if you have a comment about one of our other questions, feel free to send it in. You can also submit your next question to awesome etiquette Emily Post dot com or send it in via facebook or twitter. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette so that we know you want it on the show.

00:34:21

Speaker 1: So we are starting off our next segment with a little bit of an announcement in our family dance. Father would always say announcement announcement. I don't know why, but that's just what it was because it was funny to say mouse meant when you were a kid. So my announcement,

00:34:40

Speaker 1: we have officially named this part of the show which we have always called our alternative segment. We have finally decided to call it our post script segment in which you will receive traditional etiquette, rapid fire questions points on modern day etiquette, what else, what else do we talk about in here? Well for example, today we're going to share a little

00:35:02

Speaker 1: personal story, a little etiquette history. So we're going to talk a little bit about an episode Emily Post life today. I like it. Well, we are very thrilled to call this segment the post script and we hope you enjoy it. So as teased today, we're gonna talk a little bit about Emily Post Emily Post the indefatigable, the indomitable the I may have, I'm not sure.

00:35:27

Speaker 1: Um

00:35:28

Speaker 1: Emily Post was such a remarkable woman. The stories about her as a person loom large in our family. There's a book that we will return to in a future. Post script called truly Emily Post Written and published by her son that are sort of family stories lore about Emily as a person.

00:35:45

Speaker 1: Um not as rigorously or authoritatively researched the way the Claridge biography is. These are more the, the legend that survived. But today's story is a true tale. In 1916, Emily wrote her first book of nonfiction. It was a book about a cross country road trip. Hence the title by Motor to the Golden Gate. It's about a trip she took with her son, ned and a woman named Alice who served as a

00:36:12

Speaker 1: essentially a secretary for Emily on the trip cousin.

00:36:16

Speaker 1: She yes, she is somewhat related, described as a cousin. I'm not sure

00:36:21

Speaker 1: whether that's a first cousin, a second cousin, what what exactly the relationship was. But the three of them traveled from new york to the golden gate bridge and they did it by way of riverside California. So they actually dropped down through the american southwest on the end of their trip and then came up the west coast. But

00:36:39

Speaker 1: um, it wasn't the first book chronicling a cross country road trip, but it came dangerously close. There was a man who had preceded Emily by just a couple of years who also chronicled a cross country road trip. But the first cross country road trip book in american history was almost written by Emily Post. I love it when I learned that I've been telling tales for a while. I had no idea. I thought she had written the first one and it wasn't, not quite, it was, it was dangerously close. Everyone I've talked to about it before. You do get to say Emily Post and Jack Kerouac in the same sentence. That's pretty cool. It is delicious. And this also, let's clarify was at a time when there were in some places not roads to actually drive. We're pushing through mud and dirt and weren't there places where like, I don't mean to just totally interrupt, but aren't there places where

00:37:26

Speaker 1: um, like women weren't allowed in the dining room, they had to eat like out back or something like that. I remember I remember dad telling me some story about that. There are all kinds of tales in this book, a cowboy rides up to a bonfire where they're having a picnic. They passed through a ghost town and Emily's marveling

00:37:44

Speaker 1: at the, her father was the architect. She's the socialist, that the civic planning of this ghost town that's now uninhabited.

00:37:50

Speaker 1: Um in some ways, Chicago is described as the last outpost of civilization. Bear in mind this is a new yorker, a member of best society whose drifting west. And um she's actually remarks at all of the, the ornate fixtures in her Chicago hotel bathroom.

00:38:04

Speaker 1: And I think she is maybe wondering if these people are overcompensating or trying to keep up and not fall behind the big city cousins on the east coast. Um Emily did her own, if anyone's ever done triple A trip ticks where if you talk to triple A ahead of time. This was popular back when the sending family did its cross country road trip in the nineties, early nineties

00:38:26

Speaker 1: boy that was even the late eighties um, triple A would would develop these day planner. These maps that flipped over and they were long maps that showed a day's worth of driving the route ahead of you for your day as your trip tic Emily had done a series of trip takes for herself before Triple A provided the service. Um, so she meticulously planned and chronicled this adventure

00:38:46

Speaker 1: and it was an adventure. It took her determination.

00:38:49

Speaker 1: Uh, it was unusual for a woman to undertake an endeavor like this. The people that were sponsoring her trip that she was sending the articles back, begged her things got too tough just to to call it quits and come back and let people know. And she said, no, I'm determined to make this trip. And

00:39:05

Speaker 1: This, this particular adventure preceded the publishing of etiquette by about six or seven years. Etiquette came out in 1922

00:39:13

Speaker 1: and I think that it was essential to the writing of etiquette that would follow it really broadened Emily as a person to get outside of the confines of new york, outside the confines of the best society that she was most familiar with at the time and really start to experience the broader scope of America at the time. And

00:39:32

Speaker 1: um, the democratic nature of Emily's pitch and appeal. And I definitely think that she understood both her audience and the types of manners that she was describing much better for having undertaken this endeavor. She she toured in a classic, actually, a custom Mercedes touring car. The pictures from that particular trip are fantastic. A lot of her drive is that historic route 66. So I'm just going to give you a little excerpt so you can get some some taste for how Emily turned a phrase she'd begun this book with a

00:40:05

Speaker 1: A couple of her friends trying to convince her not to go. Chapter one begins. It can't be done. But then it is perfectly simple. Of course you are sending your servants ahead by train with your luggage and all that sort of thing, said an Englishman. A New York Banker answered for me

00:40:21

Speaker 1: not at all. The best thing is to put them in another machine directly behind with a good mechanic. Then if you break down the man in the rear, your own chauffeur can get you to rights in no time.

00:40:32

Speaker 1: How about your chauffeur? Are you sure he is a good one? We are not taking one nor servants nor mechanic either.

00:40:39

Speaker 1: Surely you and your son are not thinking of going alone. Probably he could drive. But who is going to take care of the car?

00:40:46

Speaker 1: Why he is

00:40:47

Speaker 1: at that? Everyone interrupted at once. I love it. That's such a good excerpt. And it's the start of the book.

00:40:55

Speaker 1: Emily was not to be deterred despite the best advice and wishes of her close new york friends. She was so like practically daring. And that's what I loved about. Like, just listen to that. Oh, surely not. What do you mean? Of course, And that from everything we've ever heard from our grandparents,

00:41:13

Speaker 1: this is exactly who she was. She loved to disabuse people of their assumptions and notions that that she found foolish.

00:41:21

Speaker 1: Who does that sound like? I think you and I picked up just a little bit of that from our grandmother, Great great grandmother. I certainly hope so. What I would love for the two of us to get to do is I would love for the two of us to follow Emily's route and to go across and to recreate this trip.

00:41:37

Speaker 1: And I would, I think that that would be the coolest thing for us to attempt.

00:41:42

Speaker 1: I would do it. Let's do it. Let's okay. So you, our listeners have just heard us commit to that. We are doing it now. We just gotta find a way to do it. By Motor to the Golden Gate. Sometime future project, future project Emily succeeded. She made it, she made it across the country. They pushed on, they made it happen and they had their adventure and they wrote about it. They sent a series of articles back to new york that were originally published in colliers.

00:42:07

Speaker 1: They were eventually compiled into a book a year later and put out and you can find that book. It's in the public domain. There are multiple online e versions. So by Motor to the Golden Gate by Emily Post. And I wish you well happy Hunting, finding it. And it's a great read. Not that I've read it yet, but it's a great read. So enjoy that. And that's the end of our first post script. We hope you'll come back for many more social courtesy does pay, doesn't it? Thanks

00:42:39

Speaker 1: Well, it's come time for our etiquette salute today. We like to end our show On a positive note. So each week we offer up an etiquette salute to a person or organization who's out there exhibiting good etiquette and making the world a nicer place for all the rest of us.

00:42:56

Speaker 1: This week's salute comes from a listener Greg and is not to an individual, but instead to a certain type of person.

00:43:04

Speaker 1: Greg writes,

00:43:05

Speaker 1: I have an etiquette salute, but not for a particular person. Instead for people who allow others to go ahead of them while waiting in a line when I'm dan is cheering silently across from me when I'm busy or rushing through errands. I have from time to time had people in front of me offer to switch places with me in line.

00:43:25

Speaker 1: This also recently happened to me of all places when I was at the gun range for a class on historical firearms.

00:43:32

Speaker 1: When the man in front of me in line offered to switch places with me so that I could wait with my friends who were in front of him. Now when I'm not in a rush, I've been trying to offer those behind me to go first. I don't mind waiting extra few minutes to let someone in a hurry check out before me and I like to think I made their day easier.

00:43:52

Speaker 1: I live on Long Island, which generally is an etiquette wasteland full of rude and mean people. So the shocked change of expression on people's faces when I offer them my spot is a fun bonus.

00:44:04

Speaker 1: Sorry, we're both just cracking up at that. We are sure there are nice people in Long Island, just like our friend Greg.

00:44:12

Speaker 1: If no one had ever first done it to me, I never would have thought of letting others skip ahead of me in line. So I feel like it's a great example of the kind of pass it forward etiquette your podcast encourages thanks so much for all your hard work, sincerely Greg Greg. We love it. It's so exactly the nature of what we hope and just think

00:44:31

Speaker 1: you really are that person

00:44:33

Speaker 1: that everyone wants to have in their grocery store line.

00:44:36

Speaker 1: A great big hearty etiquette salute to Greg and all those people who noticed the person standing behind them with just one item. Yes. If you have an etiquette salute, please consider sending it into the show as you've just witnessed. It doesn't exactly have to be for a particular individual, but it could just be for something that you or the people around you are doing to help make the world a nicer place.

00:45:01

Speaker 1: Well now wasn't that better? Look at the effect of a little politeness, that's our show for today. As always, thank you for listening and spending some of your day with us. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and don't forget there's no show without you. So send us your questions, your etiquette salutes and your suggestions to awesome etiquette Emily Post dot com

00:45:23

Speaker 1: enjoyed the show. You can find more awesome etiquette on itunes and make sure to write a review. If you liked the show for that matter, don't be shy, tweet it or facebook post it. You might get a reply from lizzie or I. We've both been making an effort to be sure we respond to everything tagged with hashtag awesome etiquette on facebook where the Emily Post Institute

00:45:42

Speaker 1: on twitter. I'm at daniel underscore post and I'm at lizzie a post or you can visit our website Emily Post dot com.

00:45:50

Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed and performed by my dear friend bob Wagner.