Episode 27 - Indian Weddings

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy. That's old fashioned

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Speaker 1: act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect thinking of the other person. Real friendliness. Welcome

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Speaker 2: back to dan who is back from his trip to L. A. And welcome to you all our listeners to another episode of awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Our podcast comes to you from the studios of Vermont public radio and is a part of the infinite guest network from american public media. I'm lizzie post

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Speaker 1: and I'm dan post Senning from the Emily Post Institute

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Speaker 2: dance back in

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Speaker 1: town and thank you so much for that. Welcome back.

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Speaker 2: I missed you. I love our office but you are like my counterpart here in my partner in crime and I literally the number of times I walked into your office and was like, oh yeah, there's nobody to talk to. Hey dan's geranium, how's it going?

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Speaker 1: Hi dance fish, how's it going?

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Speaker 2: No, that was over in Stephen's office. So so you're fish. Actually had like someone to hang with.

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Speaker 1: But well it's good to be back and having not planned this at all. I was going to say something very similar to you and it was fun for me. Um there I am in Los Angeles having a great time. The wedding was awesome. We managed to get out to the beach for a day up to the mountains for a day, we got spa treatments. Think Ella and that was the

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Speaker 1: most excellent vacation that I was having.

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Speaker 1: Um we stopped by the american public media studios in Los Angeles visited rico from the dinner party download. He sends his best. They absolutely love you out

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Speaker 2: there.

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 1: had so much fun, really good trip. But also it was travel and I felt like I was away and abroad and

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Speaker 2: good feeling when this podcast

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Speaker 1: dropped on monday, it brought me just a little bit closer to home. It was really nice to, to download and I was sort of looking for that free moment when I get to listen to it and and just hear a familiar voice and be reminded about the things I enjoy back home

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Speaker 2: as did I'm sure my expletive filled text messages to you when I found out that jimmy Graham got traded to the Seahawks.

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Speaker 1: Well there yes, there was some trauma, definitely period was difficult for all of us

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Speaker 2: texted dan. I am, I am not texting you about work. Call me immediately

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Speaker 2: with lots of four letter words that are inappropriate for our show. Sorry, it happens even to etiquette experts. It was like my favorite player ever since Darren sproles left And so it was like each year the Saints are ripping a little part of my heart

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Speaker 1: out blockbuster trade. I was looking at it from the other end, just a little bit fearful Seattle is looking so good.

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Speaker 2: I wish

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Speaker 2: john mo much enjoyment as he is a Seahawks fan watching

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Speaker 2: my jimmy Graham. Um, let's talk about your trip a little bit because this was kind of a preview. You went to a big indian wedding and you are about to host in two months time, which reminds me I need to order my, Sorry. Um, a big indian wedding. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: it. It was a lot of fun as you would expect. A wedding is a wedding, is a wedding. You

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Speaker 2: should also know right now listeners that I am looking like dan left here looking super like mount any and all of that and he's come back. He's like, his, his beard is super trimmed like real clean cut straight edges. His hair's got like, he looks

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Speaker 2: like you just came from L.

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Speaker 1: A. A little flesh, a little ready flesh

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Speaker 2: color. You're looking good. Alright indian wedding. What, what do you feel now as you get ready for your own?

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Speaker 1: Um It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be awesome. I was particularly interested in the ceremony itself, the part of the wedding that you're just not gonna

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Speaker 1: youtube and find out about. And it's not a short ceremony. The short version of the hindu ceremony can last an hour, 45 minutes to an hour. And that's a truncated version and sort of the most common current version that was really curious about it. There's a lot of ritual and pageant to it and I found

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Speaker 2: seven things that happen and I think

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Speaker 1: there's an element of the ceremony that involves walking around the fire seven times. It's sometimes equated to the vows and you make your vows explicit and they're these seven promises that you make to each other and I know it's really sweet. Um

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Speaker 1: well you're going to, you're going to get to know me and I'm going to get to do it and actually I was really impressed with the groom. He was, he was humble, he was the center of attention. He wasn't always comfortable in that role. He was an absolute sweetheart. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I definitely watched him for some cues and was

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Speaker 2: walking on the elephant. No,

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Speaker 1: no, they called, it's called a Barack and it's, the groom's family arrives as an entourage. Traditionally it was the groom's family arriving at the bride often the bride's village

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Speaker 1: and the groom would present himself like a royal prince would arrive riding a white horse or an elephant these days. Sometimes it's a convertible or a motorcycle. But

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Speaker 1: totally

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Speaker 2: picturing that scene

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Speaker 1: in Aladdin dancing.

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Speaker 2: It's not the same culture, but it's, Yes,

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Speaker 1: exactly. This processional, this arrival um the Borat was fun, no horse, no elephant. So what did he come in on? It was, there was, there was, there was dancing and oh

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Speaker 2: Dancing, it's like a 2nd line in New Orleans.

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Speaker 1: I'm not, yes, probably. Oh

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Speaker 2: God damn. I really need to

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Speaker 1: take my Mardi Gras just bad.

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Speaker 2: It's not even Mardi gras that's just like

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Speaker 2: every week.

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Speaker 1: So one of the other big parts of the broad is the bride's mother receives the groom. So the groom comes and knocks on the door of the bride's home, he's received by the bride's mother. And are we going to

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Speaker 2: do all this at the house?

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Speaker 1: We're going to do all this. Yes. The one other thing I just want to mention because we'll get more into this as, as the months go on here, it gets closer and closer 2.5 months now. Um

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Speaker 1: the attire pooch was beautiful. She was absolutely stunning because you

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Speaker 2: saw this is your first time seeing pooja in a sorry? Right.

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Speaker 1: Yes. And the sari, she wore saturday night to the final dinner was absolutely elegant. You could afford to any black tie like

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Speaker 2: that, what you just said was the attire and I was thinking of the bride or the groom and you, you go, no pooch

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Speaker 1: was beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have been surprised. I wasn't surprised, but she was absolutely stunning. Uh and and one of things, I really enjoyed the nature of the attire got more and more formal over the course of the weekend, there was even like a very subtle shift between the ceremony saturday morning and the reception, saturday evening where, you know, sort of maybe lunch formal to evening attire formal, um

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Speaker 1: like black tie on your tux to white tie on your tux type of transition. Um and it absolutely read, it was really think

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Speaker 2: about how I'm going to make this work at your wedding,

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Speaker 1: your

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Speaker 2: mom and I were talking about it because she's unsure if she's going to wear a sari both nights, the shanghai and the wedding or if she's gonna wear like linen slacks and a to Nikki type top that kind of has an indian vibe to it, but isn't a full indian and

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Speaker 1: we're going to hopefully reduce the number of choices people make. There should only be two major wardrobe changes, one for the night before the shanghai and and one for the ceremony reception, which will be closer together than

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 1: know. Are you

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Speaker 2: freaking out or you just totally excited to dive into the actual execution of this wedding. Now

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Speaker 1: I'm starting to get psyched for that is, and that's, that's the best question I've heard yet about it. It's no longer fear or trepidation. It's going to be here in 2.5 months. The parts are in place. It's just a matter of keep doing the work, make your next deadline, get the next email out and

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Speaker 1: be there with a smile.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Well with that and with your excitement, I think that we should carry it over to some questions today.

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Speaker 1: Sure you're right. But there's so much to learn how to do. Sure there's a lot to learn, but it's worth it and learning is easy. One way is by watching others

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Speaker 1: on every episode of awesome etiquette. We take your questions on how to behave this week, we're going to try to blast through as many of the short questions that we've received as possible. So this isn't a rapid fire etiquette, but it's a question version of rapid fire etiquette, like it

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Speaker 2: were emerging, emerging.

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Speaker 1: Shall we get started?

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Speaker 2: Let's get started. Ok. Joyce wrote into us with two questions.

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Speaker 1: Her first one begins, is it proper for an aunt or Godmother and a grandmother to give a wedding party for their niece or granddaughter?

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Speaker 2: The answer is that yes, it used to be that close relatives didn't give showers or any kind of parties like this, especially ones that that had to do with gift giving. Often aunts godmothers, grandmothers would do the bridal luncheon, that sort of a thing.

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Speaker 2: But they wouldn't do parties where gifts were involved because it looked like they were kind of

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Speaker 2: begging or grabbing for gifts from people. Um Nowadays, because of the way families live far apart or close together, it's just it's become easier and easier um to see this as a really helpful and wonderful thing and not a grab for gifts. So nowadays it's totally fine for

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Speaker 2: um family members that are close to the bride to actually throw her a shower or a gift party

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Speaker 1: helps keep the tradition alive.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. All right.

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Speaker 1: Next question

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Speaker 2: is it proper for the best friend of the bride to host a shower or a party for the bride and groom, even if she isn't invited to the wedding,

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Speaker 1: this one's a little less clear? It really depends on why she isn't invited and if she's okay with that, usually the bridal shower is very small intimate affair and you wouldn't be a part of that unless you were also going to be going to the wedding.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Number one rule, if you're not invited to the wedding, you don't get invited to the showers.

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Speaker 2: Um but there are examples where for instance an office might get together and throw a shower for the bride even though the office isn't being invited to the wedding.

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Speaker 2: Um so I think that's, it's unclear so you need to figure out why hasn't she been invited? Is she okay with it? And is she asking to instead be able to be a part of it in some way by throwing a shower. If that's the case, I say go for it.

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Speaker 2: If it's not the case, I say it's really strange that this question is coming up and don't go for it. Joyce we really hope that helps answer your questions and have a fabulous wedding.

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Speaker 1: Naomi would like to know. I invited my cousin and his wife to dinner. I suggested two dates that were one month ahead of when I extended the invitation. He responded that he would check with his wife. She was included in my message to them. The dates I suggest that are fast approaching. I recently sent them a just checking in message and have not heard a response.

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Speaker 1: How do I wait for their reply? What do I do?

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Speaker 2: You know this is a real bummer Naomi, but basically you've done what you can aside from calling them up to make sure, I'm not sure when you say you've left a message and just checking a message, I don't know if that was a voicemail or if it was an email or text message. Um with the two ladder, I would be a little worried that maybe they didn't go through,

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Speaker 2: but um I would find a way to get in touch if you can and and actually speak with the person to get the message across. Um but other than that you've done what you can, it's up to you if you decide to try inviting them to dinner again sometime or if you just say you know what these people don't respond I'm not gonna invite and that's perfectly okay if that's what it needs to be for the time being.

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 1: know we said we'd keep this short, I have a follow up question I want to ask,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel about the language? I wasn't sure if you saw my email checking in and I'm curious about your reply,

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Speaker 2: totally fine, totally fine to do something like that. Good suggestion, good add on, thank

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Speaker 1: you,

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Speaker 2: Our next listener writes, I'm hosting a 70th birthday party for my husband. Is it bad manners to include no gifts please on the invitation. Is there a particularly polite way to phrase this?

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Speaker 1: You know, that type of language is going to be fine for birthdays or anniversaries. You never want to make mention of gifts on a wedding invitation, but for something like a birthday or an anniversary party, no gifts please. Just that language alone is really the only mention of gifts you ever want to make.

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Speaker 2: And it's perfectly polite.

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Speaker 2: Our

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Speaker 1: next question comes from lexi. She wants to know a friend is getting married and instead of doing the traditional registry for wedding gifts, the couple request that attendees contribute to their honeymoon fund using an online forum. This is the only option. I think they should register for some gifts and have the honeymoon thing as an option, but not the sole option. I think it's a little tacky thoughts.

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Speaker 2: It's it's fine. What they've done, we are with you. We always suggest that people should have more than one type of registry option for gifts.

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Speaker 2: Um, also remember guests don't have to get gifts from a registry or they don't have to contribute to a honeymoon fund. I will say though that because you're a guest and I'm assuming you're not the mother of the bride or something.

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Speaker 2: I would not suggest this to them. I would not tell them that you think it's tacky. I would just keep it to yourself and know that for your own wedding or for people that you're advising about weddings that you would give that advice

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Speaker 1: and absolutely feel comfortable giving whatever you feel comfortable giving

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Speaker 2: as a gift for the wedding. Our next question, my grandparents raised me and I consider them my parents and they consider me their child. I talked to them on the phone every day, there is a generational gap and

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Speaker 2: They feel that I should write a thank you note to them every time they do anything for me. Recently, my grandmother sent me a $50 check for Valentine's day. I called her to personally thank her and I also sent her a text message. Do I also need to send a thank you card?

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Speaker 1: You know, this is one of those cases where we're going to suggest that you just go ahead and send that thank you note, it's going to make your grandparents so happy and you know, it's not just going to make them happy. They've really requested it of you, they've made this clear, they've made this really clear with you. So it's such a low bar to, to, to pass in order to to meet that standard that's really going to going to cement this relationship in a really positive way. So we're going to suggest that you go ahead and send that thank you note, even though you've made the phone call, even though you've sent the text, this matters to them and for that reason alone, it can matter to you,

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Speaker 2: right, and it's you know, typically if you open the gift in person,

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Speaker 2: that's where a verbal thank you is fine. But beyond that, if you didn't open the gift in person, you need to send a note. If you've already agreed upon with friends or family that a phone call is fine for a thank you, then run with that. But as dan said clearly your grandmother wishes for different, so respect her wishes

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth would like to know if I send a save the date for my daughter's bat mitzvah and a cousin sends her regrets in advance due to her son's graduation. Should I still send her an invitation?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's no need to send her an invite Elizabeth unless she'd like one for sentimental keepsake reasons and you can ask her that. But other than that she already said no. So there's no no sense in wasting the paper in the postage.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Have a great party.

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Speaker 2: Our next question is from Yvonne, are you supposed to put your return address on a thank you note in general. What about one to a new employer thanking them for hiring you.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. You're going to need to put a return address on that Thank you note in order for the post office to accept it and take it where you want it to go.

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Speaker 1: You don't necessarily to write your whole address out inside the note in longhand. But you absolutely want it on the envelope and

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Speaker 1: speaking from the perspective of someone who saves a lot of thank you notes. Those return addresses are so helpful. Andrea would like to know is it considered inappropriate to have a registry for a housewarming party? My boyfriend and I are in the process of purchasing our first home and I intend on having a housewarming party but I would rather avoid having five waffle makers. I have received mixed reviews on this topic, so I figured I would ask the pros

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Speaker 1: thank you

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Speaker 2: Andrea you actually don't register for housewarming parties only for showers for for baby showers and for wedding showers. Housewarming aren't parties where where gifts are are mandatory, it's nice but people might also bring you baked goods, they might bring you something really simple.

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Speaker 2: Um We we always suggest bring a gift to a housewarming party. What we don't suggest is that you register.

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Speaker 2: Um it's just one of those, one of those fine lines. And so I would advise just be happy with all of those waffle makers that you may get and return the ones that you don't use which might be all five of them will

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Speaker 1: cover re gifting in a post script at some point in the near future. And I just before we leave, I know these are short but I want to say thank you for having a housewarming party. It's such a nice thing to do when you're new in the neighborhood and it's a real opportunity to meet the neighbor. So

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Speaker 1: really go forth and keep that tradition alive

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Speaker 2: and to have your friends warm the house with their presence. I mean that's the point of the party.

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Speaker 1: Such a nice thing.

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Speaker 2: Awesome. Our next question is from an anonymous listener,

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Speaker 2: Hi lizzie and dan, when planning a wedding and inviting guests. How does one go about inviting adults only? Please don't hear me wrong. I have nothing against Children. Many of my cousins and other family members have small Children, but I don't necessarily know how I feel about young Children being at the wedding, especially with out of town family members.

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Speaker 2: I'm not even quite sure how that would work. Thank you so much sincerely anonymous.

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Speaker 1: Well anonymous. First of all, it's absolutely okay to have a wedding where you decide not to have little Children there. That is a valid decision to make. You might make it for all kinds of reasons and you don't need to go into long explanations about why you're making that choice. You do want to let people know as soon and as early as possible. It's going to be part of the invitation itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The way you actually do that though is you never put, it's not like gifts. Children aren't like gifts. You can't put no gifts please and you wouldn't do that on a, on a wedding invitation anyway, so you're not gonna put no Children please or adults only. There is absolutely no mention of this on the invitation itself. The way it gets indicated is that the outer and inner envelopes are only addressed to the parents or the adults. Um you might have a cut off where kids over 18 are invited.

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Speaker 2: Um it's also something that you want spread word of mouth and when you do because it will happen get

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Speaker 2: reply cards with whole families written in or where can I? You know, I have my kids that such those sorts of things. People will respond with that. You can say no. You know, we we did have to make a decision and we made a decision not to have Children at our wedding.

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Speaker 2: Really great if you can provide a babysitter for those who have to travel from out of town

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Speaker 2: um so that you cover them and they don't have to worry about it but their kids can still travel with them. Um Also, yeah, also an option is to have that babysitter on site. So the kids actually aren't attending the reception but they are traveling to the same places that their parents will be at. They'll just be at different areas and you can work that out with your event coordinator on the, on the site but that's really the best way to go and enjoy your wonderfully childfree wedding.

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Speaker 2: Our final short and quick question is a formal one. Do wedding invitations still require an inside envelope with the invitees. First name.

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Speaker 1: While inner envelopes are lovely and are a fine tradition. They are not required. They're super formal. They definitely will take the whole formality level of your invitation

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Speaker 2: came from. Tell them where they came from.

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Speaker 1: So historically, traditionally the outer envelope just protected the very important inner envelope that had this beautiful engraved invitation

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Speaker 2: that would usually be delivered to you by your butler or someone who had received at the door and it's all gross on the outside from traveling in horse and buggy,

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Speaker 1: who knows where it's been. So

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Speaker 2: the inner envelope was pristine and pretty

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Speaker 1: and really nice. And the tradition evolved over time to the point where you could really use that inner envelope to be more specific to really clearly defined who's actually invited to the wedding. So for example, it just arriving to a household or two, Maybe a particular individual,

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Speaker 1: you might say inside that individual's name and guest and that would let that person know they were welcome to bring somebody to the wedding. Or

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Speaker 2: it might in the case of a family where in the future when you have little little tiny dance and pooches running around your invitation might say to mr and mrs sending on the outside and the inner envelope

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Speaker 2: may or may not list your Children which would indicate whether or not the Children had been invited or maybe if there's an age cap,

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Speaker 2: it would be which Children were invited because they were over a certain age and which were not because they are under and

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Speaker 1: we saw how important that type of specificity could be in our last question.

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Speaker 1: So absolutely not required, but also an option and a fine option to really take that invitation to the next level

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Speaker 2: and a very cute addition to the inner envelope. It's a place where you can be less formal or as we like to say more endearing.

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Speaker 2: So if you always call your grandmother for instance, my grandmother is granny pat, ironically, our grandmother on dance side of the family with me was called mud. Um so the inner envelope for instance, for my grandparents, had they been alive

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Speaker 2: would have maybe red mud and poppy, which is what we call them or it could have read just their first names, libyan bill post.

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Speaker 1: We hope that helps and that's the end of our rapid fire etiquette question segment for the day. You hear that

00:20:43

Speaker 1: she says you're not as rude as you used to be. What do you know? Thanks to everyone for sending in your questions and remember we love updates. If we answered your question on the show or if you have a comment about one of our questions, feel free to send it in.

00:20:58

Speaker 1: You can also submit your question to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com or send it in via facebook or twitter. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette so that we know you want it on the show.

00:21:09

Speaker 2: Our post script segment today contains an excerpt from the rituals of dinner by Margaret Visser on the debate or the history of I should say time's up and times down.

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Speaker 2: I will warn you, I think it gives just a little kind of poke at american styles

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Speaker 1: at the end there and

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Speaker 2: dan and I might talk about that at the end,

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Speaker 2: but it begins

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Speaker 2: eating in the english manners means that the fork, having just left off being an impaling instrument must enter the mouth with the tines down. If it is not to be awkwardly swiveled round in the left hand or less capable hand.

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Speaker 2: Food must therefore be balanced on the back of the rounded times.

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Speaker 2: This has two advantages for polite behavior. First, a fork thus held encourages the mouth to take the food off it quickly and close the lips. It is quite difficult to push the fork with its humped teens far into the mouth weapons and that's in quotes

00:22:13

Speaker 2: should not be plunged into mouths.

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Speaker 2: We now keep this rule faithfully hardly needing it to be enunciated.

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Speaker 2: The second advantage is that denying a modern fork, it's possible spoon like use is wanting lee perverse. It forces us to take small mouthfuls and to leave some of the food unlivable on the plate. It is difficult to get the food onto the fork and harder still to balance and raise it

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Speaker 2: faultlessly

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Speaker 2: managing to eat like this with grace is a triumph of practice and determination and therefore an ideal mannerly accomplishment. I'm going to break from the quotes a debatable, definitely. We were not on the same page with practicality as misfits. Er okay,

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Speaker 2: continuing

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Speaker 2: the former way of eating was not dislodged in north America as it was in the rest of the world. It has been suggested by James Dietz that the old way was more deeply entrenched in America because forks arrived there relatively late. According to this theory,

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Speaker 2: americans remained attached to eating with their spoons.

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Speaker 2: They would cut food, probably holding it still when necessary with their fingers or spoons and then lift it in the spoon, first shifting it if necessary to the right hand up to their mouths.

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Speaker 2: Forks imported from europe were certainly used sometimes not only for impaling food but for transporting it to the mouth.

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Speaker 2: Charles. Dickens visited America in the early 1840s and witnessed eating with both knife and straight, long pronged fork. He says in American notes that people

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Speaker 2: thrust the broad bladed knives and two pronged forks further down their throats than I ever saw the same weapons go before,

00:24:04

Speaker 2: except in the hands of a skilled juggler,

00:24:08

Speaker 2: But soon forks took their modern spoon like forms so that they could be treated

00:24:13

Speaker 2: after the spearing and cutting was done as though they were spoons, Europeans meanwhile kept eating food impaled on the times and that's how the difference came to be, that you see lots of Europeans continuing to have it times down. Whereas americans use it, time's up

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Speaker 1: in the language. We sometimes use the difference between the american and the continental style of dining. Another

00:24:36

Speaker 1: uh major distinction between the two styles is the transition of the fork in the continental style of dining. That fork stays in the left hand times down to bring the food to the mouth. And

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Speaker 1: I love the description of the awkward turning over of the fork in the left hand if it were to stay in that hand and go to a teens up position, because I've wondered about that particular maneuver

00:24:57

Speaker 2: because I do like this cross bridge of them because I don't switch the hand over to the right hand, but I do do the swivel and I never thought of it as being awkward or ungraceful or you know, it was, it was fascinating when I read this to think of and also to think of I I as I mentioned in it, the practicality note of it where to me it's the spoon part of it is it's a practicality why on earth would I waste food and leave it on the plate? Only because it's such a great

00:25:26

Speaker 2: showing off, like, you know, sign that my gosh aren't my men are so practiced, I can, I can eat with my fork upside down.

00:25:36

Speaker 1: So I definitely. Okay, so I noticed that tone to the to the writing and this, this idea of of an enjoyment of the artifice and enjoyment of the making of this a rarefied difficult thing and that being part of what elevates it

00:25:50

Speaker 1: and I don't agree necessarily with that, but I know

00:25:52

Speaker 2: because you and I weren't raised to agree with that part

00:25:54

Speaker 1: of it. But so many of the specifics here, I absolutely agree. Like I really prefer the continental style, not because it's more refined because I find it easier. I find less flopping and switching. And I also, when I'm teaching, often mentioned to people that there's as much flat space on that fork are our modern spoon. E fork about an inch

00:26:13

Speaker 1: On one side the other,

00:26:15

Speaker 2: how you hold it. Because as you tilt a little, I can see that flat part that you're talking about, but when it's actually engaged with the plate

00:26:22

Speaker 2: it's not there, it's much

00:26:24

Speaker 1: harder to get it. You're you're right that the angle is a little harder, but there is that flat space. And I often tell people if you're using so much of the fork that you're shoveling the food into your mouth, maybe take smaller bites. And this idea here, I've never heard it put quite like

00:26:38

Speaker 2: that

00:26:39

Speaker 1: of the idea that you don't want to be just

00:26:42

Speaker 1: like a sword

00:26:43

Speaker 2: swallower. Yeah, I love that dickens quote was awesome. But for me I I definitely when I'm using that fork and knife um after I'm finished cutting I won't I will keep the times down if all I'm eating is that piece of meat. But if I'm trying to build a bite, which you often do, I do see you actually flipped that fork up

00:27:04

Speaker 2: so that you have the meat, that spirit on the end and then you're building a bite on something that can hold the little bits of rice and maybe the green bean or whatever it is a little more easily.

00:27:13

Speaker 1: Although for that bite building and I picture our grandfather doing this. I love the the use of that knife in the right hand should be able to build that bite. Whether whether that

00:27:23

Speaker 2: whether it's up

00:27:24

Speaker 1: or down. I think laziness probably leaves that times down for me

00:27:30

Speaker 2: because you have to understand that while while we talk about table manners all the time. Us posts are inherently fast eaters. We we shovel our food down. The biggest joke was that

00:27:40

Speaker 2: um you know, Alan my my oldest

00:27:43

Speaker 1: uncle would,

00:27:45

Speaker 2: yeah, I know right, he would, he would be finished eating by the and going up for seconds. By the time my grandmother was sitting down

00:27:52

Speaker 2: that it was were we like our food and we, we get quiet and we eat it fast. And I also

00:27:59

Speaker 1: love the rituals of dinner. We really did. This book is an incredible book. It's an incredible resource if you're interested in the history of table,

00:28:05

Speaker 2: it's so much fun be warned,

00:28:07

Speaker 1: it starts out with

00:28:08

Speaker 2: cannibalism

00:28:09

Speaker 1: well and and and the sacrament. So it looks at the taboos and the sacred around eating and fascinating thing in between

00:28:17

Speaker 2: fascinating. So we hope to bring you more excellent quotes from it and we hope that maybe you're a little influenced, maybe you'll change, Maybe you'll enjoy further your time's up. Our time's down.

00:28:28

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:28:34

Speaker 1: Social courtesy does pay, doesn't it? Thanks Each week we like to end our show on a positive note by giving an etiquette salute to a person or organization that exhibits good etiquette and it's out there making the world a nicer place for us all. This week salute comes from Allison who salutes her grandmother Julia.

00:28:53

Speaker 1: Dear lizzie and Daniel. You are some of my favorite dinner party download guests and now your podcast is a highlight. Each week I wanted to offer an awesome etiquette salute for your consideration. My grandmother Julia was one of the classiest ladies I've ever known, always making people feel comfortable and welcomed in her presence.

00:29:10

Speaker 1: She was also the thank you note monitor. Whenever I'd share news of a gift I'd received from someone, she was quick to both appreciate the thought and asked me if I had said a thank you

00:29:19

Speaker 2: note that

00:29:20

Speaker 1: our family was devastated to lose her very suddenly to cancer last spring, however, I had to chuckle when we were cleaning out her closets in a drawer. I discovered an abundant supply of blank. Thank you notes that she must have kept on hand as well as every thank you note. She had been sent over the last several years.

00:29:37

Speaker 1: It was so poignant to realize that she had kept every thank you. She had received from me, my siblings and my cousins as well as people I had never heard of. I know that many are advocating a thank you text or email as a more eco friendly way to express gratitude. But discovering my grandmother's cache of gratitude was such a wonderful moment in the midst of a difficult time

00:29:57

Speaker 1: realizing that she had appreciated all these notes enough to keep them. Made me resolve to always express gratitude the old fashioned way. And we never know what a note will mean to someone

00:30:07

Speaker 1: that being said, allow me to ironically thank you email for all. You do keep up the great work Allison.

00:30:13

Speaker 2: Oh, Allison first. We are so sorry for your loss, but that is such a beautiful salute. Thank you so much for sending it in.

00:30:20

Speaker 1: It really is. And you are most welcome. And thank you too.

00:30:25

Speaker 1: Well now wasn't that better. Look at the effect of a little politeness.

00:30:30

Speaker 2: That's our show for today. As always, thank you for listening and spending some of your day with us. We hope you have a wonderful killer, awesome rest of your week and don't forget there's no show without you. So send us your questions. Your etiquette salutes

00:30:44

Speaker 2: and your suggestions to awesome etiquette Emily post dot com. You can help make awesome etiquette more awesome if you like what you hear tweet at facebook post it and of course the mother of all awesome actions, Subscribe on itunes and leave us a review on facebook where the Emily Post Institute on twitter. I am at lizzie a post

00:31:06

Speaker 1: and I'm at Daniel underscore post

00:31:08

Speaker 2: or you can visit our website Emily Post dot com. Our theme music was composed and performed by bob Wagner.