Episode 271 - On Holiday Tipping

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social goodness. See it's old fashioned,

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Speaker 1: watch how busy post and then post to act as host and hostess, they know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today's show, we take your questions on second marriage registries, tipping during the holidays addressing baby announcements and to follow up to our segment on family dynamics for awesome etiquette sustaining members. We talk about planning a wedding around family members with Children,

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Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript segment on thanksgiving prep. Two weeks out all that's coming up.

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Speaker 1: Mhm

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont Public radio and is proud to be produced in Burlington Vermont by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie Post and I'm dan post setting. It's no, I'm sorry, I know we have actually something like really important to get to in the show now, it's like really, really important,

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Speaker 1: But it's beautiful and magical and snowy outside and I'm so loving that that is your spirit this morning because your cousin was 15 minutes late and was going very slow through 6" of accumulating snow and dropping off

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Speaker 1: kids who had snow days at other places. Thank you so much and I'm so glad that you're enjoying this am I don't know what it is, but in the past like five or six years like when the snow comes in the winter, I just feel so happy.

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Speaker 1: It's like beautiful. It's that's the thing is it's so beautiful. We live in Narnia

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Speaker 1: like it's unreal list. And you really live in Narnia. Like I don't so much live in Narnia, I pretend and go visit Narnia, but like you live there and it's beautiful Narnia of course being like the northern mountains of Vermont. I watched some movie on netflix movie called Let It Snow. And one of the characters said

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Speaker 1: snow is like the Spanx of weather. It just makes everything look good. I was like that's funny. That's one of the best lines I've heard in a while for like modern comparison. Let me affirm what you're saying when I pick Tunisia up at daycare on friday. That was the first day where we really have the snow coming. We got outside and there's this street light in the playground

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Speaker 1: and it's the old iron street light and the snow is coming down through the light and Anisha was running in circles with her arms out. It's snowing. It's snowing 15 minutes. I kid you not did not stop and I couldn't stop her. It was just, there was such delight in this experience of the first snow. Right? Well chris and I were talking before you got here about and by the way we're looking over at Betsy has baked for us. Um banana, blueberry muffin cake and chocolate chip cookies

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Speaker 1: which I am going to try really hard to resist but you should have some before really, I should, but chris and I were talking about the snow and how at this stage we just love curling up like you, like you get up on a nice weekend and you go for a big walk,

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Speaker 1: plan out what you're going to cook for the day, go to the grocery store,

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Speaker 1: get all the ingredients come back and then it's just like movies and coziness and baking and cooking and then enjoying what you bake and cook and watching more movies and tv shows and coziness,

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Speaker 1: it's just so wonderful. Isn't there a word that got popular a couple years ago? Ho how uh we can't go, people will write in with it because I don't know how to pronounce it. But yes, that word, that means like cozy, like feeling of cozy comfort, creating that sense of an afghan on your lap, a fire in the fireplace, cat curled up under your arm. Okay, so we're a little snow, happy little magical, happy up here, but we need to make our audience happy and especially our sustaining member audience and as many of you have been so amazing to try and sign up for our sustaining member website. We,

00:04:21

Speaker 1: in the past month, sorry, we have experienced that same issue that we were experiencing back in february again, where even though the site is completely secure, it is telling you it's not a secure certified site and so I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to go through and then pay for something on a site like that. Um, and so we have decided

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Speaker 1: drum roll please,

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Speaker 1: to move our sustaining member community to Patreon. And this was another platform that we had looked at when we first set up the sustaining member community and it's used by a lot of creators. It's used by a lot of podcasts too,

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Speaker 1: essentially allow

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Speaker 1: people that support the work to support the work through Patreon and they maintain the portal, they maintain the payment gateway and

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Speaker 1: it's a simpler site than our current sustaining member site. And we're really looking forward to that simplicity, that ease of use. And for those of you that are currently sustaining members, be looking for an email that will be coming in the next day or two that will invite you

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Speaker 1: to transition your sustaining membership over to the Patreon site.

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Speaker 1: We love its ease of use. We think you're going to love the consistent delivery of your ads, free versions of the shows, your bonus content and also some other special bonus content that it's going to be easier for us to get up there.

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Speaker 1: For example, we're looking forward to the launch of the Patreon site,

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Speaker 1: also including the video recording of the live podcast that lizzie and I did at the national stationery show. So it's kind of nervous for you guys to see a stupid, but I'm also really excited for it. Me too. So that's the tease the hook. If you're a current sustaining member, definitely go to www dot patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 1: If you've thought about becoming a sustaining member, it's a great time to go take a look at the new platform and the way it's organized and the extra content that you get, if you decide to become a sustaining member of the awesome etiquette podcast,

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Speaker 1: and we appreciate the sustaining members that want to go above and beyond that type of participation and really support the show financially, it makes it easier for us to do this work and we want to make it easy for you to support the show also, we are going to keep

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Speaker 1: So that's the important work that lizzie was talking about at the start of the show, the housekeeping. But it is important housekeeping because our sustaining member community matters to us and we really appreciate your efforts to support the show. We want to meet you halfway Again.

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Speaker 1: Well,

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Speaker 1: having taken care of our housekeeping, we have some questions to get to. Yes, we do. Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions on how to behave. If you have a question for us, you can email it to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 80285 A kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette. Remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show and sustaining members remember to put sustaining members somewhere in your message. Will answer your questions on the sustaining members site. Now with Patreon

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Speaker 1: We begin our show with a question regarding registries.

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Speaker 1: Hi Lizzie & Dan, I love that spelled with 76

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Speaker 1: oh, so

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Speaker 1: this podcast, Where have you been all my life? I can't wait till someone says that to me, but maybe not about the podcast. It feels good. Doesn't it feels good.

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Speaker 1: Here is my etiquette conundrum. My fiance and I are both on her second marriage. We both eloped as unions about 20 years ago and did not have formal weddings or receptions. My own marriage was fairly short and so long ago that most people do not know or remember that I was married.

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Speaker 1: We are currently planning our wedding for next year. It's a destination wedding because we do not live near our families and they do not live near each other. So we chose somewhere somewhat central to them but still a long plane ride for us. We are not doing the usual bachelor, bachelorette parties, engagement party or showers. It's just too far and we think the wedding will be party enough

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Speaker 1: a couple of times since the engagement, I have had people say something negative about having a registry to be clear. We do not have a registry published yet. We are still many months away from the wedding.

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Speaker 1: The comments have been along the lines of us having a second marriage being financially independent and established in life so we shouldn't expect gifts.

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Speaker 1: I have to admit this has made me embarrassed to publish a registry.

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Speaker 1: We don't expect gifts honestly

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Speaker 1: considering all the guests have to travel, but we do think registries are nice. I certainly appreciate them when gifting my friends and family.

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Speaker 1: These comments were completely unprompted as I'm not the type to talk about receiving gifts.

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Speaker 1: Is there something I should say when someone says something like this, should we not have a registry? This has really taken some of the shine and fun away from planning the wedding. Thanks for your time. Nicole.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Nicole. Well let's start off by just saying congratulations! Whatever comments you're getting lizzie post and I are both very excited for you. Congratulations on a second wedding

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Speaker 1: now about registries,

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Speaker 1: I was answering a question from someone I'm quite close to just a couple of days ago about registries and they were wondering what to do. And I found myself painting the bigger picture about registries to help them make some choices along the way.

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Speaker 1: This was a young couple that didn't feel comfortable about putting out registries just for completely different reasons. They just felt like it felt weird that they were asking for gifts

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Speaker 1: and I was saying to them, don't think of it like that, this is really about you doing something that's designed to help your guests. Ultimately, that's the point of a registry, it's to make someone else's life

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Speaker 1: just a little bit easier and to coordinate something that

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Speaker 1: is somewhat significant. If lots of people are going to be buying gifts

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Speaker 1: for multiple people to get the same gifts because a lot of people are going to know you well and might make similar choices. Having some way to keep track of and sort that is helpful. I think so helpful for you helpful for them.

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Speaker 1: That's the idea and there's definitely the potential to come across as looking for gifts. Are giving a lot of direction around gift giving. That's why

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Speaker 1: it's a good idea to take care with how you build your registry and how you share your registry. But

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Speaker 1: again the big picture is these things are good and helpful. And I was saying to this young couple I was talking to, I want to see your registry. It's going to help me figure out what to get you. So please do it. Do it for me if you would. And I want to be that voice in your head when you're hearing these other voices expressed their concerns or their opinions about registries for second marriage. We just add a word in their their unsolicited concerns there. Like we aren't even on this topic. Why the heck are you bringing this up concerns? That would be those concerns. Yeah. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Think of the other people who are going to call the silent majority here not to get political on you. But

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Speaker 1: think about those people. And remember that that registry is designed to help them.

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Speaker 1: Now. The way you share your registry for a second marriage might be a little bit different than a first marriage. But I'm also not that concerned about that lizzie post. What are your thoughts? I think that I would kind of go to parts here one. There's just the issue of how do we handle the registry. And I think that the registry, I think you're right for all the reasons dan's listed. I think you should have one.

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Speaker 1: Um but I think you might choose to only send it to people who have inquired about it or who ask about what types of gifts you might be interested in.

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Speaker 1: And that way it's not publicly posted but it's something you have ready as a tool for those who are interested.

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Speaker 1: Um I think that you can also say to people when this conversation comes up

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Speaker 1: boy, you know we've heard really mixed things from folks. A lot of folks do recognize that it's our second wedding and that we are both fairly, you know financially set up and established in our lives. So yeah, we're really just hoping for celebrations of the actual marriage.

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Speaker 1: But some folks have really been insistent about sending a gift. So we decided to have a registry that's available if people would like us to send the information out.

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Speaker 1: And boy we found that is just such a great solution to this kind of tricky etiquette problem and I like the idea of just tackling it face on really laying it out there that why yes your opinion and your point of view is totally one that frankly we kind of share but we also have all these other guests who are just saying so positively that they are excited for our marriage and they really

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Speaker 1: don't feel like it's a wedding unless they give a gift to someone. And so we wanted to make sure that we made it as easy for them as possible. And I really, I personally like that idea. I think as long as you don't end up coming across like the ladder of the two types of people that the people who are wanting to give a gift or just like

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Speaker 1: the nice, pleasant people. Whereas these people who are like, oh you've already done all this. Well you don't need a gift. Like

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Speaker 1: it's why I like the idea of because you naturally are associated in the camp of yeah, we don't need anything. We're not expecting gifts you say. I mean we're in the camp of we're not expecting gifts or anything like that. We're right there with you negative nelly, but

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Speaker 1: but there's all these other good, wonderful kind people out there and I don't I don't want to separate that out. You don't have to give a gift for a second wedding if you've already attended the first. So I don't want it to seem like the people who are choosing that route are somehow ungracious or not willing to celebrate,

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Speaker 1: give these people the benefit of the doubt that they can celebrate with you. So there's this fine line between I'm expecting a gift and I'm expecting that some people will want to give a gift. Big difference between those two sentences and I think that there is a reasonable expectation

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Speaker 1: that there are going to be people who feel inspired when they're invited to a wedding to give a gift.

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Speaker 1: Whether they've been to the first one, whether they were aware that there was the first one, whether whatever many, many people are going to say, oh I'm going to a wedding, I'm going to bring something. I'm going to send a gift.

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Speaker 1: I think being ready for that

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Speaker 1: isn't rude. It just makes sense. Nicole, congratulations to you and your partner. We hope you have a wonderful time celebrating your second marriage with family and friends.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. How did you know I mean? It's the very one I want and he seemed to know what you wanted. He insisted we get that particular life

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Speaker 1: Eddie. You knew all the time.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is seasonally relevant and it's about how far to go with your holiday tipping.

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Speaker 1: Hello. I'm hoping that you are able to answer my question regarding tipping around the holidays.

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Speaker 1: Much like my hairdresser whom I see regularly and would give a holiday tip to. I also frequently visit a boutique beauty dermatology clinic And I was wondering if I should give the woman that I see a holiday tip.

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Speaker 1: I see her once a month for various treatments and the treatments have a wide range in cost. Is this someone that I should even be giving a holiday tip to And if so how much would you recommend? If not a tip? Do you recommend something else? Thank you so much for your advice best Natalie Natalie. I think you're really smart to be thinking about this. This is

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Speaker 1: you know, as a service that you go in and get I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: when we're looking at boutique beauty dermatology clinic, we're probably not quite

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Speaker 1: in the realm of doc likes. I mean we are in the realm of dr this person actually probably is licensed doctor, but at the same time this sounds to me more like very elective things as opposed to your helping me remove cancer on my face or something like that. Like you know, skin

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Speaker 1: skin issues or you know this is the person I see once a month to deal with my eczema. Like I think we're more in the case of um and and this is total assumptions here. So Natalie if we are wrong, read this question the other way, but I think we're probably more in the realm of facial treatments that are helping to get desired looks and things like that and I don't want to assume too much here. But this is this is how we're trying to balance what info we have.

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Speaker 1: If it's this version this, you know, elective by choice, I come in once a month, there's the same way you might go get a facial once a month from someone and see an extradition about it. I would definitely put them in the category of someone that you could tip at the holidays if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: about the cost of one visit is what are kind of measuring tool is here and you know, you might have a range and that's something you have to think about and you also have to think about your budget, you might decide that this is someone you'd rather give a gift to as opposed to a cash tip.

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Speaker 1: You may choose to ask this person if they receive holiday tips. You know, I would love to do something for you at my next visit, which falls, you know, at the end of the year, as a thank you for all the service for the year. Do you accept such tips or gratuities or gifts? And I think that that's a nice way to broach the subject,

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Speaker 1: then you've got to remember to do it, but um if they say yes, but I think that we're very much so in the same vein as a hairdresser here or again, like we said, an aesthetician, a massage therapist that you see regularly. Um these are personal trainer, personal trainer, these are all folks that, that we kind of take this type of

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Speaker 1: path with when it comes to holiday tipping.

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Speaker 1: I called this question seasonally appropriate because lizzie and I around this time of year start to get media requests that come in pretty regularly and the topic for

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Speaker 1: a good percentage of our holiday. Media requests have to do with annual tipping or tipping around the holidays. And

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Speaker 1: there are some big picture thoughts whenever this question comes up that really become the baseline for the way we approach the topic and one of those is there are two areas to think about people that help you with your body and people help you with your home. So your doorman, the guy that plows your driveway or the woman that plows your driveway, the

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Speaker 1: housekeeper that visits regularly, the childcare provider, I was going to say we have Children is the other topic area that I think is another really big one that receives holiday tips. There are enough people that fall into those two or three groups depending on how you break them out. That thinking ahead of time about is important part of doing it well and budget for yourself,

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Speaker 1: setting that budget. And what made me start to think about that bigger question was how much And lizzie's response that well, you also have to think about your budget and what you're doing and it can make it easier to do that holiday tipping as a cash tip and in that recommended range of about the cost of a visit if you have planned ahead. So there is an aspect of the budgeting decision making process that also has to do with planning and how you value this within your annual budgeting. The big thing is that if you can't fit this person into your annual budget of end of the year thank you then it's really wonderful to give a card at your your december visit

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Speaker 1: that just says thank you so much for a wonderful year of service. I've really appreciated working with you this year. Whatever whatever makes sense for the relationship that you have. But

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Speaker 1: it's a good way to just get the sentiment and the gratitude out and not have to let it get bogged down by the finances or even the preparation. Let's face it. I mean I don't right now have a financial situation that lets me give cash to everybody at the holiday season.

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Speaker 1: Um Even though we know cash really is king in this in this project. We have heard, we have heard from everybody that they really love the cash. Um but some some companies and especially the U. S. Postal service has actual restrictions on receiving cash. So you do want to be careful about cash. But don't forget the fact that if you're not doing cash, you know whether it's those cookies or that that you know holiday candy that you bake?

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Speaker 1: It adds up and it also adds up in time. And so the budgeting isn't only for the actual finances, it's you know how much time do you have to do this if it is something home way, do you have enough money to do it too. And when the answer is no boy, I really don't. Those cards can really be a wonderful way to be using your words

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Speaker 1: to really impact people and make them feel,

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Speaker 1: you know, appreciate it during the holiday season,

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Speaker 1: Natalie, we so appreciate this question because it's when we hear a lot and we don't talk as much about on this show,

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Speaker 1: lizzie's connection between the concept of a gratuity and the idea that gratitude is the whole point of a good tip

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Speaker 1: I think is the best thing to keep in mind when you're making all of these decisions. That good tipping tipping done well, makes everyone feel good. It makes the person receiving the tip feel good. It makes the person giving the tip feel good. It's about expressing gratitude, showing appreciation and feeling appreciated. Feeling the gratitude that people feel for you and both sides of that equation can feel so good. So it's wonderful that you're thinking about this, that you're thinking about it and really concrete terms because that's going to make it easier to do to take those internal good thoughts and feelings and make them explicit and part of your behavior and decision making.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for the question. Thank you for giving us a chance to talk about it with the entire awesome etiquette audience. We were just having a little talk and we'd like it if you could tell us what you think. We were talking about consideration for others and being nice to people.

00:24:53

Speaker 1: Oh,

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Speaker 1: our next question is titled baby announcements? Hi, we're expecting our first child in january. Congratulations and I'm currently creating a list of addresses for baby announcements. I understand baby announcements can be sent to anyone and everyone you think may be interested to know about the birth of your child

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Speaker 1: especially since they aren't accompanied by any expectations of response or gifts.

00:25:22

Speaker 1: However, by the way, that's just awesome etiquette right there. Like way to nail it on announcements in a very succinct small like 3-2-3 sentence paragraph.

00:25:33

Speaker 1: However, some of the folks on my list are people whom I have worked with and I'm very close to but have yet to meet their spouses in the case of a wedding invitation. I'm aware I would address the envelope to both members of the couple as they would both be invited.

00:25:51

Speaker 1: Yet a baby announcement is a great deal more casual and no action is expected.

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Speaker 1: So should I approach addressing the envelope more like a personal correspondence and address it only to the individual actually likely interested in this information.

00:26:08

Speaker 1: So for example, addressed the envelope to my friend alone, not my friend and her husband, since I don't actually know him.

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Speaker 1: I think what is hanging me up a little is the fact that I'm not necessarily writing anything specific to the friends that would make it feel like a more personal note. Is it considered bad manners to leave her family off the message even though she's really the one who would care.

00:26:34

Speaker 1: I've checked through my copy of Emily post etiquette and can't seem to find any info on the question.

00:26:39

Speaker 1: I know I could likely source the internet, but who is more trustworthy to ask than the experts? Oh, you are so kind. Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may have kind regards Emily and

00:26:52

Speaker 1: soon to be baby h baby H. I want to meet you. I love new babies because you have a magic baby for now. I'm going to satisfy myself with answering Emily's question. I think that you've pretty much mapped out the answer in the way you've asked the question. So the answer for me is pretty short. I would address the envelope to both people for all the whole family to, you could include kids if you wanted. Yes. For all of the reasons that you stayed. If the note itself was a more personal note, I think you could send it to just that person. But because this isn't a personal message just to one person, you can address it to the household and let me talk for just a second about all the benefits that can accrue from that decision.

00:27:39

Speaker 1: Far from being viewed as impersonal or as if you're ignoring that close relationship. Think of it as an opportunity to start to wrap your arms around more and more people to include more and more people in this really special fund moment in time.

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Speaker 1: What am I missing cousin

00:27:57

Speaker 1: dude? I don't think you're missing much of anything here. I think you've pretty much nailed it. I mean the point is is that this is, this is an announcement. It's not like a personal thank you. For instance, if I was writing a thank you to pooja because in our christmas cousin drop, which I think we canceled this year by the way. So just for those of you that I've always loved them listening to the post family cousin

00:28:19

Speaker 1: christmas exchange, they think this year we said we're canceling it. Um, but if I was writing a thank you to pooja because she had me in that christmas drawn had given me something for christmas, I would write it to pooja, I wouldn't write it to the two of you. But this is an announcement, this is a bigger thing. It is information that

00:28:39

Speaker 1: is going out to everyone, you know, and

00:28:42

Speaker 1: those are the moments where we include a whole household. Those are the types of moments when we choose to do this. And so I think it makes a lot of sense. And I do think it is really good even if you haven't met someone spouse or partner when you have these types of communications to be putting out there to do exactly as dance talking about be inclusive. It really, even if you've never met

00:29:05

Speaker 1: in this case, the husband, I think it really makes him feel like you understand that they got married and that they are a partnership now and that I think Emily that you'd be in really good stead to address this one to the whole family or to the couple. Congratulations. We hope that these last couple of months are just so wonderful and a really, really special time for you and your partner

00:29:30

Speaker 1: Each day, 7000 American babies announced their

00:29:34

Speaker 2: arrival and their

00:29:35

Speaker 1: curiosity world that surrounds them.

00:29:38

Speaker 1: That world at first is the family, a

00:29:41

Speaker 2: world full of physical

00:29:42

Speaker 1: and mental

00:29:42

Speaker 2: needs.

00:29:48

Speaker 1: Our final question is about family dynamics,

00:29:51

Speaker 1: Dear lizzie and dan. I had a question following your segment explaining in laws and cousin dynamics are step parents also inherited as in laws. Would my stepfather be my spouse's stepfather in law? Many thanks lily. Yes,

00:30:07

Speaker 1: exactly. This is like one of those super easy questions like, yes, they are. They're, you're actually heard on a show recently, someone say my step grandmother and so you could have a step grandmother in law. You know, this is how this works when we have steps. The other phrase that a lot of families uses bonus.

00:30:24

Speaker 1: So you might have a bonus mother in law as opposed to a stepmother in law depending on how this family chooses to use their wording, but it might feel like it's too many hyphens within one name, but it's absolutely the right way to describe this person's relationship to you.

00:30:42

Speaker 1: So remind me where the in law thing stops. Okay. So it stops with for instance, your brother married a wonderful woman named Susan. And Susan has an awesome family large and awesome. They're not your in laws. Susan is your in law, but Susan's brother or sister or mother or father are not your in laws.

00:31:01

Speaker 1: Got it. So it stops there. I stopped somewhere. But for your brother, if Susan's mother had a husband, that husband would be your brothers in law, not yours but your brothers in law. So even though it's a step, it would you'd still be in the in law.

00:31:19

Speaker 1: It sounds complicated but it's not terribly complicated. Just you got to just get used to it. Good stuff lily. We hope that this helps explain it and you pay for big awesome bonus. Families

00:31:34

Speaker 1: Tommy knows he's a real member of his family team.

00:31:46

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates, comments or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can also leave us a voicemail or text at 802 A five A kind that's 8028585463 on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette on twitter. We are at Emily post inst

00:32:07

Speaker 1: remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette in your posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:32:13

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:32:14

Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

00:32:16

Speaker 1: Mhm,

00:32:17

Speaker 1: mm.

00:32:18

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:32:21

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover and today we hear from Rebecca about lawn mowing in the morning and a space heater in the office.

00:32:34

Speaker 2: Hi lizzie Indian. This is Rebecca. I'm going from north Carolina.

00:32:39

Speaker 2: I have a comment about two recent questions from two different shows.

00:32:44

Speaker 2: The first is about the show in which there was a question on one, is it too early to welcome on or use the snowblower in the morning? And I wanted to comment that a lot of towns have zoning ordinances about how early in the morning

00:33:01

Speaker 2: and how late in the evening equipment can be used

00:33:05

Speaker 2: so to keep the neighborhood quiet for everyone that needs it. So I would check the local town or township zoning ordinance first. And then the second comment was in regards to the most recent show questioning about the office meetings in the boss's home in which someone is using a space heater.

00:33:25

Speaker 2: And I wanted to suggest that

00:33:27

Speaker 2: someone speak to the boss or the person using the space here outside of that setting and figure out a solution at that time. That way sort of takes the heat off the matter in that because students and just because everyone time to reflect and figure out a solution that works with everyone without it being of such the moment.

00:33:48

Speaker 2: Thanks so much for the great podcast. So grateful to have you in my life. Thank you

00:33:53

Speaker 1: Rebecca, you definitely got a chuckle out of dan while we worry while we were listening to that. He really loved your heat pump.

00:34:02

Speaker 1: I am such a dork. It really is satisfying. I turned to Lizzie, I said 00 she brought it.

00:34:09

Speaker 1: I think these are two great pieces of feedback. I don't know if my town has a noise ordinance on using your snow blower and I think my gosh, that would be so difficult if you're someone who has to be at work by seven and you're not allowed to get up and snow blow at four or just if you do have a big

00:34:27

Speaker 1: storm coming obviously I mean snow mode, I'm not thinking about grass and lawns right now but like if you are someone who you know has to get out of their driveway it means like so all night long you probably have to go out and shovel as quietly as possible but that I was thinking about how loud the ice scraping is

00:34:46

Speaker 1: and that just there's no getting around that. Like in some ways

00:34:51

Speaker 1: I think there are, I mean despite the noise ordinances there's also those moments where you just have to make allowances for noise happening like you know if a, if a couple was out walking their baby at night like you know to try and get it to go to sleep with that. You know, I could just imagine like what are you gonna do call noise ordinance on that? I don't think so,

00:35:11

Speaker 1: but noise ordinances are real. Sorry, I did not want that comment to make it sound like noise ordinances aren't real and shouldn't be followed. Absolutely. Are the last place I lived with a noise ordinances, Claremont California, this is like

00:35:22

Speaker 1: picture suburban living. Yeah, totally. And

00:35:27

Speaker 1: I think that you start to get a sense for what is 50 decibels, what is 100 decibels because those, that's how these things are mapped out. And

00:35:35

Speaker 1: I think that a lot of allowances made for the necessary, but it's that I'm going to go blow leaves at six in the morning that I think there's a lot less understanding or sympathy around. It's a good point to remember that particular overarching legal structure. I also loved the turn

00:35:52

Speaker 1: down the heat comment or space heater issue because it's,

00:35:57

Speaker 1: it's such an important part of a lot of the advice that we give of get away from the emotion of the moment, if possible that you really want to talk about the issue, but I want to talk about the issue and just have it be talking about the issue, not about everybody's feelings about that issue as that discussions going on tough one because the other person is sitting there apparently freezing now dan, who is our, I think of you as a lizard in the winter because you like crank that you would sit under a sun lamp if you could And I'm mostly right there with you every now and again. The office used to get too hot for me. But like it really, it's like, you know, sometimes it's a necessary, I really am that cold and other times it's just like, no, I just love to be, you know, in florida temperatures in Vermont

00:36:42

Speaker 1: Rebecca. Thanks for the feedback. You get bonus etiquette points for feedback on two questions today. Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your comment or update two awesome etiquette. That's E T I Q U E T T E at Emily Post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 K. I N. D. That's 8028585463.

00:37:09

Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to talk about the classic etiquette holiday, Thanksgiving and how to prepare for it. Why is it a classic etiquette holiday because it's all about giving thanks and gratitude is such an important part of good etiquette. Okay. I thought you were going to say because it's like such a hosting experience and it's so at the table. I mean this is the one, it's not just the gift giving, it's like it's a meal

00:37:37

Speaker 1: there is that, well, we really wanted to do a two parter on thanksgiving. One for the week before thanksgiving and one for the week of thanksgiving. And today we wanted to talk about subjects like prepping our house is prepping our kids prepping our brains

00:37:57

Speaker 1: confirming who's bringing, what, confirming who is bringing whom and choosing your meal.

00:38:03

Speaker 1: So this is the time where a lot of us have actually already done the inviting for thanksgiving at this point where we kind of know who is going to be around the table this year. For instance, my Aunt Betsy and my uncle David are both coming and both bringing their significant others. And so my mom kind of has a really good sense of

00:38:21

Speaker 1: about how many people were going to need

00:38:24

Speaker 1: now just because we know how many people that we're going to need doesn't mean we're making any fewer dishes, they're just smaller versions of them. So it's like we still have two types of potatoes, we still have green beans and brussels sprouts, we still have

00:38:38

Speaker 1: the creamed onions. There's the so our family does three different types of stuffing and yes I am the one who insists that all three are present.

00:38:48

Speaker 1: Um But it's just there's so much to prep and at the same time you're trying to get your house ready, you're trying to wrap your head around, even if you do the same dinner every single year. Just what are the things that I'm going to need just to get ready. So this week this week is a great week for number one as a host call your guests R. S. V. P. With them double check that they are indeed coming about when they might be thinking that they're going to arrive either on thanksgiving day, the week of thanksgiving two days before thanksgiving whatever it is, confirm your house guests confirmed. The people who are coming day of and when you do this

00:39:28

Speaker 1: confirmed because this is typically a community potluck event,

00:39:32

Speaker 1: confirm their dishes that they're bringing and the biggest one. Don't forget to confirm roughly the amount you want to tell them. Well there's going to be 12 people here and typically everybody wants a little bit of leftover so we're probably thinking make enough for 20 you know what I mean? And then someone has an idea of how many potatoes to buy what to prep for the meal. It's really really important that you do this kind of work.

00:39:56

Speaker 1: This probably isn't the conversation where I'd say and can you be on duty for managing the trash were about like a little too far out for that kind of conversation. We're a little too far out for table decoration conversations but we are in that zone of get the guests and get

00:40:14

Speaker 1: get the food organized and make sure that everyone knows what's expected of them and what you're what what what is expected of you. I love it check a few things off the list two weeks ahead of time. It's like the

00:40:29

Speaker 1: pressure valve on the pressure cooker. You let a little bit of that steam off because it's coming, it's coming. And the work that you do now, the preparatory work that you do now is all going to feel really good

00:40:41

Speaker 1: As you get closer and closer to that day, whether you're expecting a flood or whether you're just needing to bring green beans for 14 oops, I mean 20 having that all ahead of time. So you're not

00:40:54

Speaker 1: picking through the remains of the green beans available in the grocery store the day before thanksgiving because you put it off to the last minute. Absolutely. I also think that this is a really good time when we're thinking about prepping our house, as you all have heard me say on the show a million times not the neatest nick in the world. I am definitely not.

00:41:13

Speaker 1: And so for me, if I was the person hosting

00:41:16

Speaker 1: this would actually be the week that I would start doing a couple different clean outs, I would really be trying to get my office cleaned up and ready because it's a space that I can't block off from the rest of the house. So people are going to be in that space passing through it. You know, I would be thinking of things like I have two cats and they shed a lot. So I want to really be trying to get on both the for and any kind of litter box smells so that I'm making my home really as pleasant for the other people coming in to enjoy as possible. But what I'm also doing because we're two weeks out here is I'm making it easier for me to manage all of the cleaning the week of when you're that host and you have so much going on and you've done all the coordinating. It's funny how

00:42:00

Speaker 1: the cleaning or like there are these little elements that seem so obvious but they can get away from you and the more that you can do ahead of time to mitigate that or make it easier those couple of days before the better.

00:42:12

Speaker 1: Similarly prepping the kids. Yeah. Tell me I'm not just talking like haircuts and no, no, not even thinking about that. It's just the discussions that you start to set up the stage that they're going to be playing on in a way that they can understand appreciate and even look forward to. We're going to go to So and so's house next week. Isn't that going to be fun. Won't that be exciting? Are we ready to tell everyone

00:42:37

Speaker 1: happy? Thanksgiving, Equipping them with a little bit of language, some age appropriate expectations about social engagement and

00:42:46

Speaker 1: as much information as they can digest. Again, an age appropriate amount about what it is, exactly that you're going to be doing.

00:42:53

Speaker 1: These people are going to be coming and seeing us, we're going to get in a car and drive to this house that you really know or this house that you really don't know, we're going to see these people you do know and these people you don't know and it's going to be so much fun. Again. This is on how much fun and how good the food is going to be, especially for those little picky eaters. You know, I'm looking forward to you helping with this or there's going to be a kids table, whatever it is. And I'm going to invent a word here if it doesn't already exist. Anticipate herbal about the coming holiday, you want to anticipate it and help your kids anticipate it as well.

00:43:31

Speaker 1: Little pro tip and I don't know this yet, but I'm assuming this works as well for teenagers as it does for little kids. Just give them a little bit of idea of exactly what it's going to be and what your minimum expectations are, it makes it so much easier for them to meet those expectations. Absolutely.

00:43:50

Speaker 1: So for those of you who aren't dealing with kids and for those of you who are

00:43:55

Speaker 1: prepping your own brain is a really good space to be in. If you are nervous about political conversations, if you are nervous about relationship questions or whether or not you're going to have a baby or when you're going to get married or all the things that relatives seem just so inappropriately dive into when you're going to get a job where you're going to leave the job you've got. Yeah, just every kind of critical thing that could come at you probably will. And so and nobody means anything bad by it. Just curious. There's just family. We just love you.

00:44:25

Speaker 1: Um but it is, it's really good to prep your own brain start preparing your sample scripts. Um you know, if if this is the year where you won't be drinking alcohol and people are going to notice that, you know, you could say, I'm just trying to make a lifestyle change if you're not ready to announce why you've chosen to do this,

00:44:43

Speaker 1: whether it be pregnancy or medical.

00:44:46

Speaker 1: But now is the time to be thinking about that as a host. It's the time to just be taking a little bit of the family and friends temperature. You know, where our people have, they been really amped up by the political cycle that's happening right now. You know, is this not an issue at all at our table that you don't have to worry about when it comes to thinking about who's going to sit where and who's going to talk?

00:45:06

Speaker 1: Do you have your sample script ready of my favorite? I think we're going to leave politics off the table for this holiday season, but please, I would love for Uncle ralph to tell us about his trip to Greece because for some reason I think everybody goes to Greece, particularly Uncle ralph.

00:45:25

Speaker 1: I also just because we brought up politics at the table have to mention sometimes even when everyone agrees, you might decide, we're just not going to talk about politics at the table right now, this or we might not even all agree to it, but maybe just you as a host or a guest participating well, might keep the conversation directed to areas where

00:45:45

Speaker 1: even if there's not strong disagreement there just more pleasant topics. Just a thought, just a thought. And here's a rule, not an etiquette rule, just a thought, just a thought, one other thought and I will say it always helps me. But this is when I amp up the meditation just a little bit because finding a way to create a little space in my head

00:46:03

Speaker 1: when I who live alone and I'm very used to being alone a lot of the time then get put into a situation where I'm with a lot of people for

00:46:12

Speaker 1: You know, more than 24 hours straight, it can feel a little overwhelming. And I actually found I am one of those users of the headspace app and I have found that that app actually really helps me when I'm about to go into any kind of situation where I'm really going, to be.

00:46:28

Speaker 1: be around people and it's going to be harder to take space for myself. So

00:46:32

Speaker 1: anything that you can do to prep your brain so that you feel confident about any hiccups or just those classic, wonderful, good and well intentioned, but really frustrating comments that people make that you're ready to just let them roll off like water off a duck's back.

00:46:49

Speaker 1: I liked our show notes today where we have prepping kids and prepping brains following each other because it's all in some ways, the same advice, I would use the same language to talk to myself that I would use to talk to kids.

00:47:00

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:47:00

Speaker 1: Aren't we looking forward to this? This is going to be so much fun. These are the bare minimums that I'm going to get through. I'm going to sit down and have a lovely meal at a table where I'm not going to hold my cell phone for an hour and a half dude, last night I told my dad on the phone, I said, you know, I just, I want, my parents are in florida right now and then they're coming home the week of thanksgiving and I'm like, I just, I

00:47:22

Speaker 1: you guys are fun, I miss you, I'm looking forward to the holidays and seeing you at the holidays. Like spend more time here in Vermont, you know, so I'm preparing myself. But yeah, by saying like boy, I'm really stoked my parents are coming home, this is gonna be great, like

00:47:40

Speaker 1: I have a little nephew was so cute and he does so well with food and cooking, it's gonna be so fun this year. Prepping the brain.

00:47:50

Speaker 1: Well,

00:47:51

Speaker 1: next week we'll talk a little bit more about the next way for the next year of pre holiday preparation.

00:47:59

Speaker 1: And what about the importance of good manners to guests of other members of the family manner? How you've grown up everything about? Yes, we do think about them. They keep, because we've learned from experience that matters are important in helping people get along together.

00:48:17

Speaker 2: Mhm.

00:48:18

Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about all the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and we can't ask for enough salute. So please send them in. We're getting low folks. I know there's got to be good etiquette going on out there.

00:48:34

Speaker 1: It can come in so many forms and today we hear from jeremy,

00:48:39

Speaker 1: hi lizzie and dan, I have been racking my brain trying to think of a good etiquette salute to submit to you. It's not that I don't see good etiquette but have yet to see anything as awesome as what others have touted

00:48:51

Speaker 1: until this last weekend where I saw something that will blow everyone else is out of the water. Oh boy! So this is definitely going to be like the best salute ever, jeremy. You're setting us up

00:49:04

Speaker 1: This last weekend, we celebrated my youngest son's third birthday. It's been a long summer and we've been extra busy. So we were not fully prepared for how hard it would be to organize an outdoor party in the 100° heat.

00:49:18

Speaker 1: We were putting up the last of the decorations when the first guests arrived,

00:49:23

Speaker 1: my wife's coworker and son.

00:49:25

Speaker 1: When my wife had explained that her coworker and 14 year old son, Tristan were coming. I was nervous. You never know what a teen will bring to a preschool birthday party. But my anxiousness was put to rest almost immediately as Tristan helped us finish the decorations, then went up to my birthday boy, got down on his knees and introduced himself.

00:49:45

Speaker 1: My normally Shy three year old almost immediately warmed up to Tristan.

00:49:50

Speaker 1: Tristen then took his hand and went and played with my son on the enormous kiddie rides at the park

00:49:56

Speaker 1: for two hours. The two were inseparable and needless to say that was a huge help to us. We could not have greeted guests and coordinated the party while keeping a vigilant eye on the birthday boy and his older brother in a fairly expansive park. It was a huge relief the entire time he was there. Tristen was energetic to help,

00:50:15

Speaker 1: never complained and was never on his phone except when he took pictures that he later sent to us.

00:50:22

Speaker 1: He was anything but the stereotypical angsty teen you would expect to encounter at a kitty party and we are forever thankful for his role in making the party a success. So I'd like to salute and thank Tristen and his mom who raised him to be so polite jeremy in North Little Rock. That's just wonderful

00:50:42

Speaker 1: jeremy. I just want to identify as a fellow dad. That is such an awesome salute. Thank you for sharing it.

00:50:49

Speaker 1: Hi,

00:50:50

Speaker 1: thank you for listening and thank you to everyone who sent us something. Please connect with us and share the show with your friends, family and co workers in whatever way is likely to get them to give awesome etiquette a try. You can send us questions, comments and salutes by email to awesome etiquette. That's et que E T T E at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail vortex at 80285 A kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily Post inst that's I N S T. On facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post institute and on instagram, one of our favorite places to connect with you, we are at Emily Post Institute. Please consider becoming a sustaining member. This is a perfect time to give it a try. You can find out more by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

00:51:44

Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on all of the usual places Itunes or your favorite podcast app.

00:51:51

Speaker 1: Another way to support the show is to leave us a positive review. It helps our show ranking, which helps other people find e. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine and it is assistant produced by the awesome Bridget Dowd, who is currently fostering the cutest kitten in the world.

00:52:07

Speaker 1: Thanks Kris and Brigitte and the kitten.

00:52:15

Speaker 1: Oh,

00:52:19

Speaker 1: yeah!