Episode 272 - Picking Up
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on always paying for the group Uber, gifts for meeting the parents, picking up guests at the airport and travel costs for job interviews. For Awesome Etiquette Sustaining members we talk about personalized nursery gifts. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and a postscript segment on Thanksgiving prep.
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social, could you see that's old
Speaker 2: fashioned.
Speaker 1: Watch how busy post and they're supposed to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real
Speaker 2: friendliness.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette
Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.
Speaker 2: On today's show we take your questions on always paying for the group. Uber gifts for meeting the parents picking up guests at the airport and if you really have to
Speaker 2: and travel costs for job
Speaker 1: interviews
Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette sustaining members, we talk about personalized nursery gifts
Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback and a postscript segment on setting the table for thanksgiving
Speaker 1: all that. Coming up
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont public radio and is proud to be produced in Burlington Vermont by the Emily Post Institute.
Speaker 2: I'm lizzie Post
Speaker 1: and I'm dan Post
Speaker 2: sending. Its been a morning,
Speaker 1: it has been a morning but you just had a nice experience. You got to talk to my wife.
Speaker 2: I was going to say dan. It was not a nice experience. I was quite distraught but you meant the phone call. Yes. Your wife just called but she called to chew you out for not texting to say that you made it through the hour long icy road commute that you have this morning because we decided to get some freezing rain today.
Speaker 1: Have a good excuse. My phone is completely kaput, it has done for
Speaker 2: commission laughing right now because that is so not a good excuse. You have all the systems that allow you to basically run your phone from your
Speaker 2: computer
Speaker 2: and your wife was calling, is he safe? Is he okay? And my favorite part of the phone call was she was giving you credit that you could hear over the phone. I didn't even have her on speaker. And then at the very end it was okay guys have a good podcast by chris. It was like just so sweet and everything. But she was
Speaker 2: Colin use noodle and not a nice way. It
Speaker 1: was sort of like an affectionate, angry snuggle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dan's totally not taking it
Speaker 1: seriously.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is I've been thinking about her worrying about her drive to work also. So very nice to hear from her. Thank you for serving as an intermediary and taking the
Speaker 2: call. I loved it. It was fun. I actually love it. When when pooja calls we get a chance to check up and do I want to say like commiserating about the like dan technology
Speaker 2: resistance in your life.
Speaker 1: It's an understandable sympathetic relationship.
Speaker 2: Well yesterday I had it with you because you had quite a day at work yesterday and it was like everything dance set up to do. Either went wrong or got sidetracked and derailed and I'm looking at his calendar from over in my Burlington office going, his
Speaker 2: calendar is totally clear. Why is he not answering his phone? Like, come on man, we have a business to run here. Right. And so I did get you a message that said, hey, can we schedule a call later today please? Totally different from how I was
Speaker 1: emotionally firm
Speaker 2: but polite, firm but polite. And then dan just up and finally was able to call me and I'm thinking things like, oh he's filming the Children's online train, the trainer program that we're working on. He's caught up on sales calls or something like that. Nope, it was a total tech disaster day. And as soon as I heard what dan was dealing with immediately, my own frustration and needs were pacified because the newsletter can wait till tomorrow.
Speaker 2: The two conversations about things that we had going on that we needed to make business decisions about both could wait till tomorrow. The people we were talking to weren't available until Wednesday anyway. So it was like, Hey, let me totally relieve you from anything on my end. Go deal with what you need to deal with here is the one thing I had to ask you about and we're going to push it to tomorrow. It's okay.
Speaker 2: But it was a great like moment of being genuinely frustrated and knowing where it was coming from. Not wanting to put that frustration on you but still wanting to get my needs met and then when I did get to talk to you realizing my needs were less important than what you were dealing with. So let's just get you some ease and comfort and back to like dealing with your day,
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to hear the u version of that call because to me, I'm literally like, there's six things coming at me, you had so much and I'm checking them off the list. And as I'm talking to you that call just felt like a relief, I was just like, oh, I just got to check like two or three things even off this list and all of a sudden it felt so much more
Speaker 2: manageable.
Speaker 1: Can I tell everybody about the rest of the list? Just a little
Speaker 2: bit, Oh, please do, because it definitely involves our show.
Speaker 1: It does the Patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette site is up and running and
Speaker 1: a few of you have gone over and checked it out and we've already started to hear really good feedback about Patreon from people that know the service already
Speaker 1: and from people who are just getting to know it, but we really appreciate your willingness to make that move with us for those of you that missed last week's show, we're transitioning are sustaining member community from the teachable platform that we use for a lot of our e learning courses to Patreon and Patreon is really
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Speaker 2: you and we want to thank the three of you who have already signed up. And we are really hoping that by the time this airs that number is, you know, quintuple fold, I don't know. Is that a word? That's not a word? What is it?
Speaker 2: Quadruple For? Drew powerful. No trouble for 12. We want we want thousands of you listeners to sign up. Imagine what we'd be able to do with the show with that kind of revenue.
Speaker 1: It could truly be awesome.
Speaker 2: It could, we might be able to bring back things like the awesome etiquette holiday show. We might be able to start booking guests and allowing them to call in on a phone line that has a clear, beautiful connection so that you hear them really well, as opposed to my cell phone, which you just don't, we would love to grow this show. And by having sustaining members,
Speaker 2: we are able to do so. So
Speaker 1: so thank you for all of your support. That's the like, that's the follows, that's the listens, that's the questions, the comments, the feedback and the salutes as well as our sustaining member patrons. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: It was nice to check that off the list. It was a big large. That was one of the things going on. It looks really good. Thank you for helping me free up that time because
Speaker 2: you're going to hear some of that feedback in our feedback section, please keep reaching out to us tell us what you're seeing, what you're hearing, how you're experiencing this show. We love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Well we could hear from some of our listeners right now.
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: Let's get to some questions.
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Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 1: Mhm
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Hi lizzie and dan, I'm a longtime listener of the show and especially enjoyed your wedding specific etiquette tips leading up to my wedding this past. May.
Speaker 2: Congratulations,
Speaker 1: thank you for all that you do for your listening community. You've helped us navigate many a tricky situation.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping you might be able to provide some etiquette advice regarding ride hailing apps when traveling with others. My husband and I have recently realized that when we are out with other friends and couples, we are usually the ones picking up the Uber tab.
Speaker 1: Now I don't want to come across as cheap when the Uber is $15 for a one way ride but it quickly adds up and we spent over $200 on Uber's these past two weekends which is totally out of our budget.
Speaker 1: It's awkward to ask others to split the ride when it's a $15 or $20 trip. However, I always request whomever called the ride when it's not me to split it because I understand how quickly the price tag compounds a few things.
Speaker 1: I've noticed that when it's time to go and the group proclaims we should probably think about calling an Uber. No one actually picks up their phones.
Speaker 2: Sorry, do that for real. Okay we are, we're going to give you that. That cut out folks. That is so hysterical to me to hear that. But it's like
Speaker 2: been in a situation like this just a few um who should call an Uber, Nobody's like checking their phones called, nobody says, hey I've called an Uber, anybody want to chip it like okay, anyway, okay, back to the question. I
Speaker 1: think that's why my husband and I have been quick to help. We realize no one is actually calling the Uber so we take our phones and get it done.
Speaker 1: I also get the sense that my husband and I are on the higher end of the spectrum in our friend group. When it comes to our incomes, we are very fortunate and work very hard and have our own financial goals like buying our first home.
Speaker 1: And part of me feels like perhaps our friends assume that it's a free ride literally when they are out with us
Speaker 1: Again, I don't want to come across as cheap because in the grand scheme of things we would 100% rather be safe and take ubers than have any one of us driving after a couple of drinks with friends.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't sit right with me when $20 here, $25 there, $15 again, you get the point.
Speaker 1: I really hope that you have some good sample scripts for us, lizzie, thank you again for always providing us with the best advice, sincerely free ride friend,
Speaker 2: a free ride friend. Okay, I do have one suggestion right off the bat, but there's this really cool thing that people can do and I do it often. It's called being the designated driver
Speaker 2: and it is a way to share this responsibility without having to share Uber's, it does put the onus on someone to actually drive everyone home at the end of the night, but if you rotate that and if your friend group is willing to do that, I think that that's a really good, just totally different way to approach this problem,
Speaker 2: having spent a couple of years
Speaker 2: completely without any substances. I can say that
Speaker 2: I had a lot of fun,
Speaker 2: I danced the night away, I flirted with people, I ate amazing meals and participated into the wee hours of the mornings and goings on that there was no lack of participation or having fun with my friends just because I wasn't consuming alcohol with them.
Speaker 2: So that's just my little mini P. S. A personal experience.
Speaker 2: It's actually a really great thing to be able offer for me. I am one of the people who would like
Speaker 2: be in the circumstances of being your friend, most of my friends earn more than I do and I like being able to give back to them in a way that fits my budget personally. That's just, you know, something to think about. I can't always, you know, pick up the tab at a restaurant for everybody,
Speaker 2: but I can say, hey, I can drive people home tonight or I don't mind staying sober so that we can all have a safe way to get home
Speaker 2: and I really, truly don't mind doing that.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how that would apply to this question and it might start the discussion of who is responsible for rides in a more intentional way. You could say, hey, I'd love to
Speaker 1: get everybody home safe this weekend, all be the designated driver.
Speaker 1: That's a perfect entree into a conversation the following week or the next time that says, hey, I drove last time. I'm really hoping someone else can take over that responsibility tonight. That isn't saying you have to be a designated driver. You can say, oh I'll get the Ubers tonight, but all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're saying, hey, it's not on me, I'm planning to go a different route
Speaker 1: having done it already. I think you're in pretty good shape to do that.
Speaker 2: Most of you have listened to the show for a while, know that I'm often the, let's just cut straight to it kind of gal. And so there is a part of me that if you're willing to be confrontational and not in a negative way, but just simply confronting the issue with your group and saying, Hey guys for
Speaker 2: husband and I noticed something the other week and that's that our Uber bill has been like really high for the weekends and we were wondering if as a group, we might want to tackle the responsibilities of Uber's together and start doing a rotation of who, who gets the Uber for the week or the weekend or the night out or the event, whatever it is, it's ok to bring this up. It's okay to let people know that this has become a financial, you know, um,
Speaker 2: it's a concern that it's, it's something that you just noticed and it's not what you want to take on every single weekend and you've noticed it started to happen repeatedly. I think when you have this conversation you don't need to go down the rabbit hole of
Speaker 2: boy and this is really getting out of hand and you don't want to start putting people on the defensive. Most people probably aren't realizing that they're letting you take it every time or
Speaker 2: they're thinking, oh well they've got the big jobs with the big bucks and so I'm happy that they're willing to do it. So part of what's going on here is you guys are willing to do it because yes, you're willing to make sure that everybody gets home safe. I wonder what would happen if when you're over showed up, if you didn't
Speaker 2: make it a group thing, if you just simply said
Speaker 2: our Uber's here, have a great night guys, thanks so much and then if someone pipes up, you might say, yeah, we'd be happy to split that with you.
Speaker 2: The cost of the rides, looking to be about 10 bucks. Do you want to just Venmo it to me or do you know, do you have cash? I think that that's where it starts to feel a little awkward where in the moment you say something like do you have cash, you know before the person gets in. So
Speaker 2: I start to feel like it's a little, not the way I want to go and it's why you see me always leaning on the let's have the discussion as a group. Let's bring it up. Not in the moment.
Speaker 1: I love the two extremes you've set up here.
Speaker 2: Never middle ground over here, never middle ground. Give me the middle
Speaker 1: ground. So one is the very intentional discussion ahead of time where you acknowledge your concerns, discussions about money should be open, candid honest. They don't need to be fraught. Doesn't need to be accusatory or blaming. It can just be a hey, we noticed this. We'd love to address it.
Speaker 1: I think that's best practice on one end of the spectrum. Worst practice. You call the uber and you just spring it on everybody. You hoppin, slammed the door shut, roll the window down the cracks, they feed in a 20 and I'll let you into my car. Right? So
Speaker 2: between
Speaker 1: that bad option and the best option, I think there's a lot of wiggle room, right?
Speaker 2: Yes, no, there is a lot of wiggle
Speaker 1: room. So
Speaker 1: realistically where is that wiggle room? Where do you find it?
Speaker 1: Can someone else give a call? I did it the last few times.
Speaker 1: Is that a reasonable thing to say when you're sitting around with people and someone says, hey, can someone call an Uber?
Speaker 1: Oh, that'd be great. I'd love to go.
Speaker 1: You know, I got the last couple, could someone else do it this time. I think that that's enough preparation that. It
Speaker 1: ares your concern and let other people make their choices I think. Is that a version of that conversation that's okay,
Speaker 2: dan's like shoulders are hunched up, he's like, I can feel the like is it okay, is it okay? I don't know, I don't know how it feels. I'm curious if our audience has had moments where that line of practice has worked because for me it starts to feel a little like
Speaker 2: hey we want to leave, can you make sure that happens for us? To me it feels a little like you're taking the responsibility of you needing to get home and literally making sure someone else takes care of it just because previously you've been the one taking care of it. And I think for me personally, I like to separate that out from the moment and it's why I like the idea of the discussion
Speaker 2: ahead of time because in the moment it's almost like when you've been invited to something and then the other person asks you to pay for it and I know that's not actually what's going on, but if you're the one raising the issue of, hey let's get Uber's, can someone else do it? Because we typically do it, it feels totally right in terms of
Speaker 2: of just logically, yes, you've gotten it before, someone else should do it, you should be able to ask that.
Speaker 2: But there's something about so wait a second you're asking to leave and you're asking someone else to pay for it even though that's what everyone else has been doing
Speaker 1: to you. I want to parse it down even more.
Speaker 1: I'm imagining myself sitting there with my brother. Someone I know very
Speaker 2: well. Different
Speaker 1: story might be a close friend group, but I'm calling on that closeness because I want to dissect the point. If I say, hey, let's get an Uber. Could someone else get that? I got the last couple
Speaker 1: to me that would ring a little awkward even with my brother.
Speaker 1: If I'm sitting there with my brother and he says,
Speaker 1: hey, let's get an Uber.
Speaker 1: I would feel totally comfortable saying great idea. I got the last couple. Could you get this one
Speaker 2: that I feel totally good about? Yes. It's the difference of who asks for the Uber in the first place.
Speaker 1: I think it matters a little bit nicer. Wait,
Speaker 2: are we telling our our listener that they and their husband have to wait
Speaker 2: until someone else brings it up to be able to go home or that they need to be able to exit on their own successfully and take the hit if they're the first ones wanting to leave.
Speaker 1: It's certainly an option. Just resist that urge to be the first one to speak in that moment and maybe that silence gets a little awkward, but maybe that silence is less awkward than the thing that you're wanting to say,
Speaker 2: Can you picture like husband or question asked her in that moment, just like there's like a bit of quiet after they don't speak up and then they say
Speaker 2: I'm going to use the restroom just like that moment at the table when the check comes and no one is reaching for it
Speaker 1: or I'm picturing one person in the couple reaching for the cheque and the other one kicking them under the table. No, not again, not again. Just hold on.
Speaker 2: All these things that we are laughing at were laughing at because they are very human moments. They are moments that happen to all of us and it's why it's why you often hear me just having the courage to be able to have the conversation as a group when it's not in the heat of the moment
Speaker 2: because we can address the issue without someone needing to get home without people having may be counted on their kind friend who always picks up the Uber to do it again, which they shouldn't be doing. But
Speaker 2: you know, like you said sometimes when you're with people that you're close enough with, there's kind of a dynamic that starts to form and it's clear that that's starting to form in your friend group here.
Speaker 2: Um and the only way to address that I think is to make people aware and I think you've got this great example right now, free ride friend of a weekend where your Uber budget really was over budget
Speaker 2: and it's okay, especially among groups that hang out a lot to be able to say, hey, we just noticed this and we would love to kind of spread it out among everyone or maybe we could start doing a rotation where you know each, each couple or each person picks it up one week and I think that that starts to feel really, really reasonable
Speaker 2: when you then start to play out some of these other situations that dana, I have had a lot of fun with this morning.
Speaker 2: Uh huh
Speaker 1: free ride friend while there are no free rides in life. We certainly hope that you're able to divvy the costs more equitably in the future. This feeling of independence and individual responsibility is also shared by the local taxi cab operator. He sets his own working hours and conditions, fares are usually set by local ordinance and are based on distance traveled and other factors.
Speaker 2: Our next question is titled presents for parents
Speaker 2: as in presence when meeting the new parents.
Speaker 2: Hi lizzie and dan, my significant other and I are currently completing grad school. Congratulations. He is on the east coast and I am in florida, We started seeing each other just before moving away for school. Last august from the city we both live in. So while we have been together for over a year, he and I aren't actually in the same place too often
Speaker 2: and his parents live in the midwest, far away from either of us.
Speaker 2: They have graciously invited me up to spend New Year's with them and while I'm excited to meet his family and see his hometown, I am also feeling quite nervous particularly because my first time meeting them is not just for a dinner but for a several nights stay in their home. My specific question is this,
Speaker 2: what would be an appropriate gift to bring my significant other's parents for hosting me.
Speaker 2: I am flying up to spend time with them so whatever I bring will have to be fairly small and can't be liquid
Speaker 2: dang maple syrup from Vermont is totally out of the question.
Speaker 2: So the typical bottle of wine or the like is not an option. Additionally, I am feeling very nervous generally as my partner means a lot to me and I want this family to like me, but I'm also very shy and don't always thrive in new social situations.
Speaker 2: I am hopeful that any guidance you may have for this somewhat unusual situation to meet his parents would be helpful. Thank you again for all that You do Best sarah.
Speaker 1: Oh, sarah, let me add my congratulations to that. What an exciting time. It is
Speaker 1: not unusual to feel a little nervous to have some trepidation about meeting
Speaker 1: the family of people that are really important to us. Our significant others are partners and you're in some ways very wise to be taking care with this first meeting, I look at your nerves. Not as something that's a bad sign, but a good sign
Speaker 2: dan was sweating bullets to me booth his parents. It's a big deal. He really wanted them to like him and to approve and to just be supportive and this is their little girl and it was a big deal and I remember that time in your life and now your, your parents in law are basically like family to me, I feel like like that's how close they are, families have all become. So the beginnings can feel so nerve wracking, but
Speaker 2: as you move on it can just be amazing.
Speaker 1: Take heart and feed off that energy a little bit in some ways. It's like the nerves you get before a performance and this isn't a performance, but it's,
Speaker 1: it's a significant event potentially in your and your partner's life and you can use that nervous energy as energy to feed you to help you invest a little bit more into this and
Speaker 1: to make it something special for everybody. And that's where I want to take this energy as as opposed to letting it incapacitate you. And even just thinking ahead, thinking ahead enough to send in a question to an etiquette podcast, I am confident you're going to do great. You're going to make a great impression
Speaker 1: to really elevate that just a little bit more. The first piece of advice I want to give you is talk to your partner, talk to your partner, talk to your partner, communicate with them, learn about the people that you're going to be meeting, learn about the,
Speaker 1: the traditions, the New Year's
Speaker 1: experience, the way it's
Speaker 1: celebrated in that household, the way holidays are
Speaker 1: observed each year, You can fit into that and you can get to know the personalities as well as the specific traditions around the time of year that you're going to be there.
Speaker 2: Even just their traditional hosting experiences. I know how to tell someone what to experience when they're going to go stay with my parents.
Speaker 2: Like I really do. Yeah, like I really do know that and so lean on your partner for that. Say, hey, when your parents have people over, do they typically go out to meals? Do they like to cook in? Do they like it when people offer to help around the house? What are things that I can do to make your mom and dad really, you know, happy to be hosting me because it's so generous
Speaker 2: that they are hosting me over this holiday and during this time and I want to make a good impression
Speaker 2: boy. If my significant other said that to me, I would be like, you're, you're the most awesome person ever. Thank you, You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Absolutely. It would be, I don't want to see a relief, but it would be a really nice thing to hear as you're getting ready to go see your family with someone if they're showing interest and curiosity about what's going to happen,
Speaker 1: that's one half of the equation that's anticipating your hosts on the other side, you want to prepare yourself and I hear you doing that already,
Speaker 1: think about what you like, think about what your expectations of yourself are, because ultimately this is going to be about a meeting and respect for others is important, respect for self is important as well. So
Speaker 1: if you're someone who feels much more comfortable showing up as a guest with something in hand, you certainly should. This is a great opportunity to play that role of guest really intentionally
Speaker 1: and bringing a little housewarming present, even if it's not a holiday gift is a great way to make yourself feel a little more comfortable and to show someone else,
Speaker 1: it's a great way to make yourself feel a little more comfortable and to show someone else that you've put a little thought and attention into this visit.
Speaker 2: Okay, so here's another place where you can lean on your S. O. Ask them what,
Speaker 2: Ask them what their parents like, are they? You know, fans of wine, do they? I mean we know that that you wouldn't be able to then carry the bottle of wine with you, but it might be that you and your S. O go out and
Speaker 2: find about a really nice bottle of wine on your way from the airport or if the parents are picking you up for the airport once you guys get to the house,
Speaker 2: maybe you do a quick trip out to go, do something like that. If it's possible, if those things aren't possible, what are gifts that would work? Are they golfers, golf balls, You guys hear me suggest this all the time on the podcast, Get people things that you know they are interested in and that are useful to their interests and hobbies.
Speaker 2: One of the things that I think almost no parent can resist is a picture frame with a picture of their child in it. And so if you had a picture of your sweetheart and you wanted to put that in a nice picture frame to give to the parents, I think that's a good way to go.
Speaker 2: I might avoid putting myself in that picture, you know what I mean? Because they're just meeting you and so I think give it a minute, but make it about your partner
Speaker 2: because that is the tie between the two of you. You can always order flowers and have them delivered to the house and that is an excellent, excellent thing to do. Another great tip is to actually bring with you a beautiful piece of stationary or beautiful card
Speaker 2: and write your thank you know while you're there and pop it in the mail at the airport before you leave it will take less time to get there because it will be going through the mail system within their area as opposed to traveling
Speaker 2: all the way from florida to the midwest. So your thank you note for being hosted for the weekend can arrive then very quickly afterwards without doing the thing of like leaving the note in the room behind which you could do to You can totally do that too. But I think leaning on your s o to get an idea of what might make for a good gift
Speaker 2: is totally appropriate.
Speaker 1: And you're starting to tick over into some of the other categories of just how do you perform as a guest? Well beyond just that house guest gift and
Speaker 1: the thank you know, it's really important. Thinking about delivering that thank you know, Well on time, in a way that represents you well, really important.
Speaker 2: What are other things you can do to be a
Speaker 1: good guess,
Speaker 1: be present.
Speaker 1: Bring your full self to the experience. And
Speaker 1: that means being explicit about all of the things that lizzie and I are talking about, tell people how happy you are to be there, how good it is to meet them. Don't
Speaker 1: assume that that's all understood. It's okay to say those things that can sound sappy or corny, but coming from you when you mean them, they're so important there so significant. It doesn't need to be a big deal. It doesn't need to be everybody falls into hugs and talks about how great this is. But just I've really been looking forward to this. I'm so excited to meet you and to have this time to get to know you a little better
Speaker 1: is a great way to open up a weekend to let someone else know what you're hoping to get out of it and
Speaker 1: how much it means to you to be there and
Speaker 1: not just assuming that's understood, but actually saying it is an important part of playing your role. Well,
Speaker 1: also be ready to hear things be ready to listen, That's
Speaker 1: such an important part of participating. Well, stay present, stay engaged, remind yourself to listen and to keep it up. Notice those little moments where you start to retreat where you start to,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you feel a little shy sometimes or we hear from people that are introverted, notice the moments that those feelings are starting to creep up
Speaker 1: and either be explicit, Take some time to yourself or
Speaker 1: remind yourself that it's all okay that you're here because you care about everybody and stay engaged.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to give a final thought on that gift. Sometimes it's nice to bring something from your area or something that's really meaningful or significant to you
Speaker 2: if I think so too.
Speaker 1: If you're crafter or a knitter or
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of
Speaker 2: other things in Vermont, we bring maple syrup or some form like maple sugar. I brought some people that I visited this, uh this fall maple syrup and maple sugar I was driving. So it's easier to bring the syrup.
Speaker 2: So there might be something like that. Either from florida or from the area you grew up in that you could do, but it's good to bring a little bit of yourself. That's another way to bring something and people really do understand when someone says
Speaker 2: this is something I love or this is something that's really, you know from my, from my home area and I wanted to be able to share it with you.
Speaker 2: I've yet to meet someone who ends up not enjoying that gift or at least understanding the sentiment behind it.
Speaker 1: At least I've learned something new about you even if I'm not a fan of prey lines. Exactly. Sarah. We really hope this helps. We hope you have a great visit and a happy new Year.
Speaker 1: All the rules in the world would make people glad to meet an intermittent,
Speaker 1: it's performed in the greeting, the feeling you put behind it that counts.
Speaker 1: Gosh,
Speaker 1: why? That's the most
Speaker 2: important point of all.
Speaker 1: Following those few
Speaker 2: basic rules pays
Speaker 1: off.
Speaker 1: Wait and see.
Speaker 1: It's fun to meet people when you feel at ease.
Speaker 1: What's more fun is the way people will enjoy meeting you?
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: our next question is titled airport obligations.
Speaker 1: Hello lizzie and dan. I love having house guests but I always dread the airport pick up drop off obligation that seems to come with it. I live north of Los Angeles. So it's an unpleasant drive that can take an hour and a half to two hours each way.
Speaker 1: As a side note I am a busy working mom with a toddler
Speaker 1: that said, should that matter if I tell someone we'd love to have them or that we have a large guest room. Should I state upfront that they are responsible for getting to our home?
Speaker 1: It just seems so unwelcoming
Speaker 1: When they are telling me they're booked dates and flight information. Should I just give them my address and tell them that I look forward to seeing them. I understand the uber or lift can cost 80 bucks
Speaker 1: but I am going to the trouble of cleaning and providing a nice space for them with activities and plenty of home cooked food.
Speaker 1: Thank you for any insight I searched on the internet but couldn't find much compelling information. Erica.
Speaker 2: Erica. I I just want to absolve anyone who lives in a major metropolis or a super rural area that requires like a four hour drive to and from there like no you do. There is nothing in etiquette that says that you have to pick someone up at the airport or the train station or the bus stop
Speaker 2: or the subway stop anywhere. You just don't have to.
Speaker 2: And the best way to not feel the pressure of that is to say oh I would love to have you. These dates totally work. The one thing I've got to warn you is I won't be able to come and get you from the airport or bring you to and from the airport. So you will want to plan on transportation for that. I can tell you that the train is the easiest, the buses, the cheapest the taxi services really work or you really do need to prepare for a ride of some sort or
Speaker 2: if your flights get in after six my husband brother, sister aunt cousin can come pick you up whatever it is that allows you to give them some kind of a suggestion for what to do and then make a decision for themselves. That is being a good host. I think
Speaker 1: I like that you're being more explicit than I was thinking. My first thought was don't offer don't offer don't
Speaker 2: offer
Speaker 2: dance. Like just don't just don't
Speaker 1: particularly if someone's fishing for it if it kind of feels like they're they're teasing it out there.
Speaker 1: Resist the better angels in your nature. Those really helpful thoughts that say oh I could just do it. You know it would be so nice for them. It would be such a good thing for me to do as a host. And I can't believe I'm sitting here telling you to ignore all of those voices that are telling you to go
Speaker 2: that extra mile. So
Speaker 1: but it is so reasonable to not do this. I just don't want you to feel pressured
Speaker 1: to do this. That doesn't define you as a bad
Speaker 2: host. So there's your pressure relief. Here's the pressure back on. Is it really a big deal for you?
Speaker 2: That's the thing that I, I often feel like like there are these moments I have where I'm I'm thinking about all the things I'm going to need to do for a guest and part of me is like point really would be convenient if I didn't have to do this. Like I've got this, this and this going on with all this stuff about a
Speaker 2: and oftentimes once I've aired those frustrations and feelings for myself and then I think about what it's like for me when I'm traveling somewhere else and how amazing it is when someone picks you up at the airport
Speaker 2: and how kind it is and how thoughtful it is and I think okay, you know what I'm going to offer to pick them up at the airport or drop them off at the airport or at least cover one of the ways for them. And that might be something that you may just need to feel like you have the permission to say no
Speaker 2: that then gives you the encouragement and the goodwill to say yes
Speaker 2: again, don't do this. If you really can't do it if it's your work day and you'd have to take off work. I don't necessarily think that's that's a needed thing to go do if you know, it means doing a run around and finding child care for some reason. I don't know why you wouldn't be able to bring your kid with you. But you know, there's all kinds of things, it might be, yeah, depending on what, depending on what this airport pickup looks like and drop off looks like
Speaker 2: it really might not be possible for you to bring your toddler along. And so it is important to really think about your circumstances, think about your needs know that you have this polite no in the back of your mind rather than just saying no, it's
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry I won't be able to and that's a difference from just no, I won't because I'm not willing to
Speaker 2: and I think that's where you hear me tending to go in the end. The root of you know what I actually can I I only live half an hour from the airport and we just don't really have traffic in Burlington and it's a tiny airport so it's just not a big deal usually for me to do it, even if I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2: So kind of wrestle with those angels, give yourself the permission to say no and then I think I see where you land.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so you're not going to fully ignore your better angels. In fact, those little better angels are going to help moderate all those other voices so that if they do ask if they do push the issue and you are explaining
Speaker 1: why it's
Speaker 1: really not feasible
Speaker 2: or reasonable or a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's going to sound coherent, it's going to make sense. It's not going to be offensive or off putting
Speaker 1: Erica. I just have to finish up by saying I lived for almost 12 years in Claremont California and about an hour and a half drive into locks to pick someone up is a very familiar scenario for me
Speaker 2: remember that's an hour and a half drive in to pick someone up without traffic
Speaker 2: and then there's the whole parking or waiting or circling and then the getting back and the next thing you know you are four or five hours out of your day trying to make this happen and it
Speaker 2: all of a sudden starts to look really tempting to just say, hey do you mind taking a taxi or do you mind taking the train or the bus
Speaker 1: if it makes you feel any better are standing policy was Ontario airport nearby? Yes, ride locks, you're on your own there,
Speaker 2: you have it,
Speaker 1: good luck
Speaker 1: Throughout the country. Thousands of employees are needed to transport businessmen into town, workers to their jobs, housewives to shopping centers and Children to schools and playgrounds
Speaker 1: and daily
Speaker 1: the operators for America's transit lines make their run safely and on schedule.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Our final question for today
Speaker 2: is called travel costs for job interviews. Hi lizzie and dan. I have a question about the etiquette regarding thanking prospective employers for covering out of state travel costs to a job interview.
Speaker 2: I am currently going through the interview process right now and I am finding navigating this a bit awkward as many of the invitations come via email, which is standard in my field. I've been thanking people in my email reply when I accept the interview because it seems odd to not acknowledge the gesture, but this somehow feels a bit awkward. Do you have any suggestions for a better way to do this? Should I wait until I travel to the interview?
Speaker 2: Should I include this when I follow up after the interview to thank them for the opportunity to interview sincerely anonymous
Speaker 1: anonymous. This is a great business etiquette question and I want to give you a pretty targeted
Speaker 1: business etiquette advice answer. And one of my favorite expressions when I'm teaching business etiquette is email. Thanks for email favors. There is nothing wrong with sending a quick thank you so much. I really appreciate you're helping out with this itinerary with these travel costs with suggestions on places to stay with anything that comes up in that email exchange.
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to seeing you next week.
Speaker 1: Those types of personal messages, the gratitude, the enthusiasm, those all give tone and equality to professional communication. That is really good and we'll start to set you up well for the interview that you're going to
Speaker 1: be genuine, Be specific and
Speaker 1: don't overweight. The thanks, it doesn't need to be a six paragraph letter about how much you appreciate X, Y and Z. But a quick email. Thanks for a favor that was delivered in an email is entirely appropriate and I would do it as they come up
Speaker 1: definitely be sure to follow the whole process up with a real deal. Handwritten personal Thank you. And if part of that thanks involves thanking them for their hospitality, whatever form it took. That's a great way to again customize and personalize that. Thank you message.
Speaker 1: Thank him once. Thank him twice. Sometimes even thank them three times
Speaker 2: dan. Thank you for this answer. I'm going to just I'm going to leave it at that and not even put anything in. I think that was awesome.
Speaker 1: Good luck with the interview process. We hope it goes well.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 2: thank you for your questions. Please send us updates, comments or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 K. I. N. D. That's 8028585463 on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute on facebook we are awesome etiquette and on twitter we are at Emily post inst just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette in your post so that we know you want your question on the show and please remember to visit www dot patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. If you would like to become a sustaining member and have your question answered on the bonus section of the sustaining member website, over on
Speaker 1: Patreon.
Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover, and today we also hear a little bit of feedback about the new sustaining members site at patreon dot com.
Speaker 2: I should also note that this feedback comes from a long time listener and even a post script contributor, Jessica chamberlain
Speaker 1: just started this episode and literally squealed with glee in my car when you said you were moving to Patreon, I already support some other creators and it was so, so so easy to sign up to support you as well, which I've been meaning to do for ages.
Speaker 1: Thank you for considering your listeners, I hope you get a bazillion patrons.
Speaker 2: So do we. And thank you, Jessica so much. Thank you for sticking with the show for so long. It has been so fun to be in touch with you and to hear about your family growing and to have you submit such awesome questions and awesome advice to our podcast. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Our next piece of feedback is about episode 2 70. The shared family t shirt question and we actually got a couple pieces of feedback about this
Speaker 1: dear lizzie and dan, thank you as always for such a wonderful podcast, I am a sustaining member and look forward to both the regular episode and the additional content every week.
Speaker 1: I felt so much empathy for Tracy. An episode to 70. Writing in about forced matching shirts. I work in an office where a small but powerful minority has decided that the entire team needs to receive matching shirts with our office logo on it once or twice a year.
Speaker 1: While I understand and appreciate the sentiment of camaraderie that is behind this. There are a number of us who for style and or for comfort reasons simply do not wear t shirts or other short sleeved clothing,
Speaker 1: giving everyone a clothing item regardless of whether they will wear it is in my opinion, a waste of limited resources.
Speaker 1: I have tried suggesting that for any future orders, we consider different styles that would allow those who do not feel comfortable in the t shirts to participate, but was quickly told that it is just too much work to figure it out.
Speaker 1: But declining the item is also seen as not being a team player, it's an impossible situation and results in us simply having to accept the gift, say thank you and let it hang in the closet.
Speaker 1: I hope that Tracy's endeavor to graciously get out of the forced shirt. Problem is successful and that she has not left with piles of unused clothing.
Speaker 1: Thank you for all you do to make the world a more courteous place
Speaker 1: by the way, lizzie, I just started to hire etiquette and I'm truly enjoying it. Thank you Catherine.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much Katherine. I'm so glad that you're enjoying the book. My hope is that it's a big hit at the holiday season. Um but more so I'm really excited to hear your feedback. I think this t shirt thing is it's a real issue for folks and
Speaker 2: this type of needing to participate and whether it's pens or t shirts or post it, note and what are other things, coffee mugs. I mean there's just so much travel mugs.
Speaker 1: I have a special thermos section covered.
Speaker 2: It's just, there's so much that we can accumulate. It would be really wonderful to start seeing a lot of groups find ways to participate that don't necessarily include material goods.
Speaker 2: Just the same way a lot of people want people to celebrate birthdays and holidays around the office without sweets. I think we're starting to see some pretty big trends and I could, I could imagine in the 100th anniversary edition of Emily Post etiquette are starting to talk about the fact that while these celebrations are good and there that it's good to kind of
Speaker 2: try and build that camaraderie when it's not actually doing that with everyone on the team. It's worth questioning.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your comment or update. Awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 K. I. N. D. That's 8028585463.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 2: It's time for our postscript segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to continue talking about my favorite holiday, thanksgiving day. It's this week if you're listening on monday, Tuesday, Wednesday thursday or it might have just happened if you're lifting on friday saturday or sunday or afterwards. I don't really care because I'm just thrilled that we're gonna be eating such delicious food and my family's coming up, my aunts and uncles and
Speaker 2: I just can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. And in preparation for not being able to wait, I decided to revamp our table setting guide over at Emily Post dot com, which you can find on our home page. So there's a direct link to it
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 1: which we know is our most searched piece of content on our busiest day of the year. So thank you for spending a little time with it, lizzie bows. No
Speaker 2: problem. The trouble with table setting is that there are just so many ways to set the table and there are wrong ways to set the table and there are right ways to set the table and there are creative ways to set the table but
Speaker 2: it's so fascinating to me because it's so dependent on what you're going to be serving what your style is,
Speaker 2: what you actually have to work with. I mean I can picture tons of houses where there might be three or four course thanksgiving dinner being served, but that people only have the silverware, that's you know, all the forks are the same size, all the knives are the same, so the spoons are the same size and that's just it
Speaker 2: and you only have enough for everyone to have one set at once. You don't have the ability
Speaker 2: to lay everything out the way we describe for a four or five course meal Multicourse exactly. And so there's so many ways for this to go right and that's what I love about it is that there's just there's some very simple guidelines that we lay out right at the start of that article, many of you know them. So now is a good time to hit pause on the podcast and try and quiz yourself, which I know a lot of you do
Speaker 2: someone somewhere way early in our seasons had turned that into a drinking game just so you know,
Speaker 2: but I think that it's really important to remember that you want to have the right utensils for the meal that you're serving. And so if you are going to be having soup with your thanksgiving meal, you want to make sure you're providing a spoon. I know this sounds like yada lizzie, what kind of advice but you'd be surprised
Speaker 2: but you want to think about the basics. We typically make sure that we are setting the place settings from the outside in in the order that we're going to use our utensils. So the very first course is the very first utensils you're going to need are at the far edges of your place setting and moving in with each course all the way until we're at the dessert course.
Speaker 2: Whether you go casual or whether you go uber fancy doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: What just matters is that your guests have the utensils and the dishware and the glassware that they're going to need to participate in the meal. And don't forget about the napkin.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, are we going to talk about napkins
Speaker 2: because talk about
Speaker 1: almost for me besides a knife and a fork. The most essential utensils that napkin. And just
Speaker 1: getting some napkins on the table is getting them at each place setting or getting a stack of them where people can grab them in the buffet. Right.
Speaker 1: So important. In fact, for me, that's almost the most calming moment that napkin get into my lab
Speaker 2: dan knows that his wonderful shirts and pants are going to be protected.
Speaker 1: I have this little suspicion as I was listening to you talk about all the different ways you can set the table that the vast majority of people that come to Emily post dot com on thanksgiving day to look up table settings are looking for
Speaker 1: very simple, clear direction on some of the easiest and simplest things about place setting whether you have one fork or three forks, the fork is going to go on the left hand side of the plate. The plate is directly in front of the person who's eating and then to the right of the plate come the knives and the spoons in that order. Or the knife and the spoon or the knife alone. The blade of the knife points in towards the center of your place setting.
Speaker 1: So
Speaker 1: if you're setting the table with
Speaker 1: a fork and a knife and nothing else
Speaker 1: work on the left knife on the right blade in, you're in pretty good shape. The old B. And D. Trick for remembering that your water glass or drink goes on the right hand side of the plate
Speaker 2: and it's your D. With you make your fingers into the BND trick that dan is talking about is when you actually
Speaker 2: you kind of make the okay symbol with your fingers. So you get your thumb and your forefinger is both
Speaker 2: making a nice circle. And then you have your other three fingers sticking straight out and you'll notice that you have what looks like a lower case B on your left hand side and a lower case D. On your right hand side,
Speaker 2: continue dan with bread and drink. Then
Speaker 1: the drink on your right hand side and the B. For your bread plate. If you have one on the left hand side,
Speaker 1: there's usually going to be a drink at the table. So oftentimes if there's not a breath play that D for the drink in your right hand reminds you to place your drink or water glass just above the utensil set to the right of your plate.
Speaker 1: Learning to set the table by spelling the word forks across the place setting in front of me. F. For forks which come on the left, over the plate in the middle and then to the right come the knives and the spoons, the K. And the U. S.
Speaker 1: I had trouble with my left and my rights growing up remembering forks reminded me how to set the table
Speaker 1: when I was 30 years old and I still couldn't remember and I came to work at Emily Post this was the trick that saved my bacon. So
Speaker 1: I'm sharing it with all of you today and it will save just a little bit of traffic to Emily post on thanksgiving
Speaker 2: Day. It will. Now I do want to when it comes to setting the table, just entertain the idea of creative table settings. Because I've seen some really interesting ones lately.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 2: I saw a table setting with the forks on the right and the spoons on the left. Then the blades pointing out
Speaker 2: this just as as much as I want to commend people for thinking outside of the box, you're not making it useful for your guests. It's, we're now if you are right handed diner, that means that you are actually kind of crossing over your plate to grab these implements and then, and then moving them to the correct sides in the right hands to be able to actually eat your meal.
Speaker 2: It doesn't register as familiar to people. And I think that when we do sit down at a meal, one of Emily's goals was to have something that was consistent and familiar for people so that people could navigate this situation and feel confident you're not going to give your guests a lot of confidence by setting the table
Speaker 2: so creatively that it's an unfamiliar setting. Another one that I saw was you'll see that we actually place our dessert fork and spoon at the top of our place setting quite often.
Speaker 2: They don't have to be, they can be brought out later with the desert. Um, but I've also seen people now again, in an effort to be creative. I've seen two different things. I've seen the plate in the middle with the forks, knives, and spoons cascading upwards towards the middle of the table.
Speaker 2: Not terrible in terms of having to like criss cross your hands over, but odd to me. And, and, and it is different. We'll just say it's different. And so you're creating a very different look and it's just unfamiliar to folks dance questioning. I could see his face on the other side is like, yeah, it's not that it's like bad. It's just,
Speaker 1: I was saying to myself, there was, there's not enough room at the table maybe
Speaker 2: to set them on the side. You know, I think it was really just a stylistic choice. I've also seen where all of the flatware, all the, all the silverware is
Speaker 2: in the middle of the setting, again, stacked vertically, placed horizontally, but then each above the other and then the plate is way above all of that, which didn't seem very useful to me either. So there is kind of a point where it feels like it goes too far with the creative setting.
Speaker 2: I would be much more interested in hearing people talk about things like how they decorate the table. What kind of centerpieces they use. I was blown away the year that my mom's florist. Yes, she has one use chili peppers in our arrangement because we just start like a chili pepper seasonal type place here in Vermont. You know, it's like chili peppers are summer food. They're not like a wind middle of winter food. And it was so cool to see these red chili peppers.
Speaker 2: I've seen people do beautiful centerpiece arrangements that are very low with like a lot of votives and small vases of multiple flowers. So it almost looks like a scattering of flowers across the table. I've seen people literally scattered flowers across the table.
Speaker 2: We've seen people go and gather all different types of items from their house that are a certain
Speaker 2: color or have a certain theme to them and make arrangements in the middle like that. We have seen people and we don't advise it, put very tall arrangements in the middle of their setting. And the reason we don't advise that is because you then end up not being able to see the diners across the way and the table is supposed to be a place
Speaker 2: where we come together and we converse and we enjoy one another's company. And so when you put up those big, big, big flower arrangements or giant arrangements, you lose a little bit of that. And it's not that you can't do it. It's that you want to recognize what you're sacrificing when you choose to.
Speaker 2: Oh dan, I could go on and on and on about table settings and even the ones that we have as examples, I feel like could be touched up a notch or you know, on our, on our website. But there are so many ways to set the table beautifully. So many ways to make it comfortable for folks so that they can navigate and have a wonderful time focusing on the food in the conversation.
Speaker 1: And that's the point.
Speaker 1: Ultimately,
Speaker 1: this is the table setting. We're just setting the table. And then what follows is the event, the experience, the meal that time together. That's so important.
Speaker 2: Don't forget to that some folks don't set the table instead. What we do is we set the buffet and so it might be that you get your plate at the start of the buffet and remember please hosts put the knives, forks, spoons and napkins and glasses at the end of the buffet so that once people are finished serving that plate of food up for themselves,
Speaker 2: they have that free hand to be able to grab all those utensils. If you try and give everybody everything at the start,
Speaker 2: then it's a lot harder for them to easily serve themselves utensils at the end. Also, there's nothing wrong with eating and lapse if that's what works for your
Speaker 1: household. In fact, I anticipate doing that.
Speaker 2: Is that what you guys do at your
Speaker 1: house? It will be the third thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: You have three.
Speaker 2: I am so jealous
Speaker 1: friends giving, sending family Gupta family.
Speaker 2: I need a friend's giving my friends and I don't do friends giving and I've heard so many great friends giving,
Speaker 1: it's almost the most traditional meal of the bunch because
Speaker 1: all the friends want to recreate the very traditional thanksgiving experience.
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. Well however, you're choosing to dine whatever foods are going to grace your table, whether it be family style buffet or plated service or even the amazingly detailed Russian service that some few people get to experience. I would say
Speaker 2: dan and I really hope that you have a wonderful thanksgiving that you can take the time to enjoy your family and friends and that you have wonderfully polite holiday
Speaker 1: here here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms. Today we hear from Carrie.
Speaker 1: Hello lizzie and dan. I would like to give an etiquette salute to one of my colleagues. I apologized to her in regards to a major faux pas I made and she accepted my apology with such grace.
Speaker 1: She could have reacted in a passive aggressive manner or berated me, but I couldn't have hoped for a better outcome. Being able to apologize as an important skill. But I think accepting apologies is a skill. We don't value enough.
Speaker 1: Her actions have made me reflect on how I can be better. Warm regards Carrie. I love that carry. This is one of the nicest
Speaker 1: etiquette salutes that we've received. I love the self reflection that's going on. I love how you witnessed this or experience this and it made you look at yourself and want to do a little bit better to me. That is the best possible etiquette that desire to improve.
Speaker 1: I've also got to say thank you for noticing the importance of the ability to accept or receive that apology. Well, it is as important as receiving a gift. Well, that exchange is so important to relationships and this is a really nice reminder of that. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 1: And on this very special thanksgiving week, we want to thank you for listening. Thank you to everyone who sent us something. Please do connect with us and share this show with friends, family and anyone who you think would appreciate awesome etiquette.
Speaker 1: You can send your next question, comment or salute by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can reach us by phone where you can leave us a message or send a text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily Post Institute
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Speaker 2: which means more people are listening to awesome etiquette, which means that more people are likely to be out there being polite, awesome people in the world.
Speaker 2: Our show today is edited by chris Albertine and was assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd.
Speaker 2: Thank you Kris and Brigitte.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Mhm