Episode 285 - Purebred
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show Dan and Lizzie take your questions on a coworker’s cologne conundrum, asking others to respect your parenting choices, being invited after the fact and being shamed for adopting a purebred dog. For Awesome Etiquette sustaining members our question is about who’s invited to the shower versus who’s invited to the ceremony. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and a postscript on one of our most searched topics: addressing wedding invitations.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social, couldn't see that's old fashioned
Speaker 2: watch how busy post and then post to act as host
Speaker 1: and hostess.
Speaker 2: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.
Speaker 1: Hello
Speaker 2: and welcome to awesome etiquette,
Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.
Speaker 2: On today's show, we take your questions on a co workers cologne conundrum, asking others to respect your parenting choices,
Speaker 2: being invited after the fact and being shamed for adopting a pure bred dog
Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette. Sustaining members are questioned about who's invited to the shower verse who's invited to the ceremony,
Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on
Speaker 1: number six in our most search topics. Addressing wedding invitations
Speaker 2: All that coming up.
Speaker 2: Mhm
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont public Radio and is proud to be produced in Burlington, Vermont, by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Lizzie Post,
Speaker 2: and I'm Dan Post sending
Speaker 1: and I'm back from stationary show. Welcome back, actually, like a week and a half ago, but the way recording is gone
Speaker 2: magic of the Internet radio podcast. Welcome, Funky
Speaker 1: Awesome Etiquette, Time Zone, The War that we Live in.
Speaker 1: First of all, it's just really fun to return to a trade show because you got to know people last time. There, there. This time you get to know new faces. Everybody's in different places, so you get to know new neighbors. It was really a lot of fun. I was next to Smudge. They were really cool smudging. I really like their letter press,
Speaker 1: and we met some other really, really great folks, too. But it was
Speaker 1: good to see people react well to help Emily both lie
Speaker 2: and get to the part. I mean, I appreciate your focus on the relationships, the friendships, the people. But people liked Emily Post stationary
Speaker 1: people liked the Emily Post greeting card line, along with the gift tags and the place cards. They were really drawn to the crawling sweet pea vine, which is one of the designs that has kind of like a
Speaker 1: purple, blue and pink coloring to it. But it was really cool just to see people say, Oh, that makes so much sense. Or like of course, you guys would have a greeting guard mine. That was really fun.
Speaker 2: I can only imagine your sense of satisfaction because I know Emily Post stationary has been something you've
Speaker 2: wanted and vision thought would be perfect for a long time. And to to see physical product in front of you, to see people get to pick it up and ask you about it and you get to tell them about it must have been really satisfying.
Speaker 1: It was really fun. It was really fun. And it was also really funny because it was the classic.
Speaker 1: Dan and I joke a lot because it's the classic. Whenever we're kind of
Speaker 1: out in front of folks, the most common thing we hear is, Oh, Emily Post etiquette is dead and we're having that conversation over and over again, where it's no, etiquette is not dead. We'd be out of a job or, you know, it really isn't. People are craving it. People are asking for it. You should. Here are awesome etiquette podcast listeners writing in telling us how much it matters to them, how much it can change their lives, how many questions they have. Etiquette is so alive and well. So I got to have that conversation a lot.
Speaker 2: I want to go back to that time that people imagine when etiquette was
Speaker 1: alive. When was
Speaker 2: this, and expose them to the people that were at that time saying, Oh, Eric, it's over. It's from a bygone era. I know,
Speaker 1: right?
Speaker 1: It was a ton of fun. It was really great to be back with a lot of good friends. It was really wonderful to connect people to Emily Post again, to get the 19th edition into people's hands, to get higher etiquette into people's hands, to talk about all the Children's books that we have with folks. A lot of folks, especially in the gift realm. You know who have retail stores where it's a lot of gifting.
Speaker 1: They love having gifts that grandparents can give. Two grandkids and our guide to good manners and gift of good manners are really good books in that category.
Speaker 2: So here's a risky question.
Speaker 1: Okay, The
Speaker 2: last time you went to a stationary show, we ended up doing a stationary line with a partner. Yes, anything new
Speaker 1: brewing
Speaker 2: percolating.
Speaker 1: Let's just say I made some really great friends, and I think that the Emily Post audience would be really, really glad if there were some collaborations. So
Speaker 1: I am really excited to talk to some of the folks that I met. I don't want to jump the gun, though not having had any follow up meetings yet. I want to. I want to be respectful,
Speaker 1: so I'll play that card.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned,
Speaker 1: stay tuned. There's going to be a lot of exciting things coming from Emily Post. And don't forget to keep an eye out for the ECE Salazar line that we have the Emily Post guarding collection. I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for sharing. Thank you for bringing Emily Post to New York and coming back again to do this
Speaker 1: show. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Speaking of wit, let's
Speaker 1: get to it.
Speaker 2: Let's do some questions.
Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media on Twitter. We're at Emily Post. Install on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute
Speaker 1: on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your Social Media post
Speaker 1: so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 2: Our first question is about a co workers cologne conundrum.
Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan. Thank you for being part of my afternoon commute every week. I find it a good way to decompress after a hectic day at the office.
Speaker 2: Luckily, things are getting less hectic since we've hired a new team member that we all really like and appreciate so much.
Speaker 2: But there's a small problem. He wears a lot of cologne and everyone has noticed it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know he's in the office because you can smell it from the hallway before entering the area. It's not a bad fragrance, just so strong, and it doesn't wear off. It's just as strong at the end of the day as it is in the morning.
Speaker 2: The smell is so overwhelming that I haven't even worn fragrance myself in a month because I just can't bear to smell anything.
Speaker 2: We sit in an open floor plan, so there's no containing it. I am confident enough to talk to him about it, but I'm unsure of what to say.
Speaker 2: I don't want him or me to feel awkward afterwards.
Speaker 2: What should I do? Any advice or sample scripts would be appreciated sincerely. Olfactory overload.
Speaker 1: This is such an etiquette
Speaker 2: classic.
Speaker 2: I love that it's a man and that it's cologne.
Speaker 1: No, it's nice to hear the different version of it. I mean, some of the other ones. We always get her perfume. One of the ones is a scenario difference instead of at work or instead of when going to visit someone's home.
Speaker 1: It's about the sweat at the gym making perfume or shampoo or anything smell like amplified. So
Speaker 1: we get it in a lot of different ways, but were most often answering this question in our business etiquette seminars. And the thing that we typically hear from folks is that they would rather hear news like this from someone they trust appear a confident a friend.
Speaker 1: That's not always the case between the two people. What if you aren't friendly with this person at work or barely know them or their new as in old factories condition? Here? It's a really interesting conundrum. I personally would choose to first go to HR, just to mention that you've noticed this is a thing. It's, you know, whether it's causing you headaches or whether it's just really overbearing and distracting.
Speaker 1: For me, the newness of the person in the situation or the not feeling like I have that kind of standing as a friend to bring it up with them would make me want to first ask HR. What I like is that our our listener has already expressed that they have the confidence to directly approach this with the person, and I think that makes it really easy for us to kind of go with some of our classic advice here.
Speaker 2: So what is the classic advice?
Speaker 2: A couple of thoughts. One
Speaker 2: isn't about the sample script, but it's about the context for the conversation. And there are a couple of things that you can do to set yourself up for success. The first is,
Speaker 2: and it sounds obvious, but we have to start with the obvious. Have the conversation in private
Speaker 2: asked to talk to the person at a moment when they've got a chance to hear you. When you can say something that is a little awkward or embarrassing without
Speaker 2: making it an issue in front of other people. It's going to make it easier for this person to hear, and that can be both about physical space and also about time of day. The whole scenario around the conversation. Are you going to catch a quick moment with this person? And they're going to walk into a meeting and face everybody that you just
Speaker 2: told them, are aware that they smell very strongly
Speaker 2: something else that I almost sort of began to give a sample script for? Is the prime ng for that conversation? A great way to set this conversation up is to ask permission to have it.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's something I was hoping to talk with you about. Do you have just a minute? Do you have a minute after lunch or at the end of the day where we could step aside?
Speaker 2: It definitely let someone know that there's something that's out of the ordinary that you want to talk to them about, and that can sometimes feel a little awkward. But it also gives them a chance to mentally prepare. And if you can deliver that in a way that's smooth, that doesn't make it feel like it's going to be too big a deal. It can be a really effective tactic. The
Speaker 2: closer you can have that ask to the conversation that's going to follow
Speaker 2: the better. So there was something I was hoping to talk about. Do you have a minute?
Speaker 2: Could you take a walk with me down the hall for a second? Those are all sort of quick turnarounds to that conversation that are going to both give that
Speaker 2: new person a chance to give you permission to have it and also not
Speaker 2: cause them too much anxiety while they wait for that conversation.
Speaker 2: So what do you say? Now you're into that conversation? You're curious about a sample script? My best advice is to be explicit about your good intentions. I love the setup in the question where you say we really appreciate this new person. It's made our life so much easier to have them around. It's really reduce the workload on everyone
Speaker 2: say these things to that person. It is so good to have you here. It is such a relief to have someone in that chair doing that job. It's really
Speaker 2: freed me up in other ways
Speaker 2: be explicit about the good things. Also say things like, I really care about your success here. I want you to do well here. I hope that this is helpful for you. As you get acclimated here.
Speaker 2: Don't assume that they already know your good intentions. Be explicit with them
Speaker 2: When it comes to addressing the issue itself,
Speaker 2: you want to be clear and direct. There is a tendency often to try to skate or dance around a difficult or awkward conversation. And if you've made the commitment to have it, you also want to say the thing in a way that they can hear it and they know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: A good way to introduce that direct comment is to say something like, if the shoe were on the other foot, I hope you feel comfortable talking to me about something like this. This is about sense in the office.
Speaker 2: I've noticed that you wear a cologne and I can really smell it, and it's strong enough that I've stopped wearing any sense myself because I've noticed I'm having a reaction to it.
Speaker 2: That can be enough information you might want to go on and on, but if you've been clear, if you've let someone know that something is going on, you also want to give them a chance to respond.
Speaker 2: My other big tip for these conversations is to be prepared to listen. Be prepared for the other person to respond with surprise. I had no idea. Be prepared for the other person to respond with defensiveness or even anger and
Speaker 2: be prepared to control your own emotions to not respond in kind.
Speaker 2: Be ready to listen
Speaker 2: and also be ready to exit the conversation if they don't want to continue. If they don't want to go on,
Speaker 2: it can be a good idea to also have a few ideas about things that might help if the person wants to have that conversation as well.
Speaker 2: I had no idea, really.
Speaker 2: What do you think would be OK? Does anybody around here where perfume or cologne?
Speaker 2: Yes, but
Speaker 2: maybe not quite as much. Or generally, this is a scent free office, and this is where having had a conversation with HR supervisor ahead of time or just knowing the policy can be really helpful.
Speaker 2: So that's my tiktok for a conversation like this. These are sort of the blunt force elements that I think about as I go in. But you've got to keep your wits about you. You've got to be situationally aware. You've got to read the other person and
Speaker 2: be prepared to soften maneuver, go a different direction. These are difficult conversations precisely because you're not exactly sure how they're going to go.
Speaker 2: Master of sample scripts, other
Speaker 1: ideas. So I like where you talk about that you want to explain your intentions, and you also want to let someone know that if the shoe was on the other fit, this is this is how you'd hope to handle. I think those are two really key elements with the explaining of intentions. I really like the part where we say things like, I just want to let you know, I really appreciate working with you. I think that's a nice just baseline like that. I really appreciate working with you here. I've seen you know what great work you are bringing to the team.
Speaker 1: I also was hoping that I could talk to you about sense in the office,
Speaker 1: and then here's where I like to actually make it a little personal and take a little personal responsibility for the fact that I am the one reacting to this enough that I want to talk to someone about it so my next line would be I've noticed that I'm having a strong reaction to the Colonial, where
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's the scent itself or the amount. But I was hoping you might be willing to try a change to help mitigate it.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's your asking for someone's by in. You're saying this is something that's affecting me? I don't really know which part of it is if it's just the aroma or if it's the amount of the aroma. But it is strong, and I would love to find a way to make this work.
Speaker 2: And this is why we call you the
Speaker 1: master.
Speaker 1: Uh,
Speaker 1: but this is a place where I do think it's funny. I wrote in our notes, Make it personal, make it your issue, which sounds really weird, But that's my way of saying I'm going to own the fact that this is me reacting to someone else and other people might be reacting to. But
Speaker 1: to someone who's new in the office, do I need to lump that fact in to make my point. Do I need to say I get sick to my stomach? Do I need to tell them It's like a crippling headache and opening a window doesn't make it better. Like
Speaker 1: probably not just yet. Like, probably say that to my best friend or sister. But, like,
Speaker 2: I really like the soft edges you put on what could feel like a very personal thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like like you said, you know, start with some compliments, but then dive into what you want to. I want to talk about sense in the office, and I'm realizing I have a strong reaction. So that's That's my That's my go to there
Speaker 2: olfactory overload. We are so glad that you have a new co worker who is helping out, and we hope this answer helps you establish a long and good relationship with that person. I had a bottle of perfume
Speaker 1: one day,
Speaker 2: and it got broken every driving me
Speaker 1: crazy.
Speaker 2: He's been calling
Speaker 1: me thinking.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Talking Toys.
Speaker 1: Hello, Lizzie and Dan. Thank you so much for the kind and practical etiquette, guidance and entertainment you both provide. I love the show. I've been thinking over this dilemma for weeks, and a late holiday gift just highlighted the point for me again.
Speaker 1: My husband and I feel strongly that our daughter have open ended toys, and we are striving to follow the commercial free childhood philosophy.
Speaker 1: This means we have a lot of blocks and dolls and pretend toys and very, very few character toys and the only toys we have that make noise our instruments.
Speaker 1: However, this year our daughter started preschool, and so her and our world is a lot more open than it was.
Speaker 1: Our close friends and local family know our philosophy on toys, and it is rarely an issue.
Speaker 1: However, we just received a singing character toy in the mail. Our daughter loved it immediately but didn't realize it sang.
Speaker 1: I'm a little ashamed to say that I took the batteries out when she wasn't looking.
Speaker 1: My question is, is there a way to gently explain to people our philosophy and preference in toys? That doesn't sound judgmental. Obviously, I don't want to tell the recent offender because it was a kind gift and honestly, my daughter loved it.
Speaker 1: However, This will be our first birthday party with her preschool friends, and they're pretty much stranger parents.
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer. But other than requests, no gifts. Is there a way to mention this on the invitation and not sound like a terrible person?
Speaker 1: Is there a way to more broadly explain it to out of town friends and family that maybe less in touch with our day to day household philosophies
Speaker 1: help us keep our ethical philosophy without breaking our daughter's heart or losing friends? Thank you so much anonymous.
Speaker 2: I want to wave a magic parent want and make this better.
Speaker 1: I know
Speaker 2: this is hard,
Speaker 1: so tough, and it's so tough because of the particular age point that we're at. It's that
Speaker 1: slightly heartbreaking and wonderful growth moment where the child goes out into the world for, like long periods of to preschool.
Speaker 1: You know it's no longer that small daycare. Or maybe if you've been at home all through those early years, it's like Welcome to the world Mickey Mouse exists and like, I don't know how to tell you who he is or why we don't have him here in our house or you know, it's That's a That's a tough conversation.
Speaker 2: I'm going to do the rudest parent thing. I'm going to tell them me to Parents story.
Speaker 1: What's your me? To parents story?
Speaker 2: A. Nisha's language skills are regressing.
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: She came home the other day saying Me want
Speaker 1: Oh, no,
Speaker 2: she's three years old. Data I would please like Or I would like to have something, something please me want.
Speaker 2: They get exposed to things out in the world that you're not in control of. And how you reckon with that as a parent is a fundamental challenge of parenting.
Speaker 2: In this particular question. We're dealing with etiquette around gift giving. And the nice thing is that there are some parameters around gift giving that can serve as a guide because there's a lot to be learned about how we give and receive gifts. That's really important and
Speaker 2: can be a vehicle for navigating that difficult question of how we enter that
Speaker 2: bigger world, that wider world where we don't get to choose every influence or exposure that we face, and we have to deal with the realities that are all around us. And
Speaker 2: it's true for three year olds in the same way. It's true for us, has grown up, So we're going to work on a three year old version of that problem here.
Speaker 1: What I am really hearing with Anonymous is that this has actually been really successful with close family and in town friends, friends that we see regularly. So on the plus side, I think you're already in a good space. Where if you're early by
Speaker 1: birthday, parties that you're hosting are ones where you still keep the guest list small. I'm not saying you have to. I don't think you should fear having Children
Speaker 1: whose families don't subscribe to this philosophy over or that you should feel like you can't for some reason and it doesn't sound like you do. But it is sort of that I think for for right now, most of the gifts and parties have been from that smaller group, and now the question is, if you were going to have a whole class party, how do you explain that to other parents?
Speaker 1: I think my first etiquette answer is you don't do it on the invitation that you don't make mentions of gifts on invitations except for the no gifts, please. And at Children's parties, that's really it's not something you hear us recommending. We actually do think gifts are an excellent part of Children's birthday parties. That is a wonderful opportunity to teach. So
Speaker 1: I think that if you want your child to learn about gift giving in a party experience like that, then
Speaker 1: don't say no gifts, please.
Speaker 1: My thought is that this is something you would talk with parents about when they R S, v. P and I would put my phone number as the R S V P.
Speaker 1: And hopefully parents will call. And
Speaker 1: I think that you go after this as if people ask about gifts. Then you state your philosophy, and that's your door in. If people don't ask about gifts, then
Speaker 1: there's going to be a lesson that you, as a family unit, are going to work on no matter what. And that lesson is when we are confronted with toys and things from the outside world that we don't choose typically to bring into our home. How do we decide to handle them? Do we
Speaker 1: keep them, But take the batteries out and we keep them for maybe three months and then pass them on. And that's a tradition that we make with these types of toys. Or
Speaker 1: do we say, you know, it's really our philosophy, so we're going to accept them graciously. But it's not going to really be something we play with. These are choices parents have to make right, Dan, Am I guessing right? Am I guessing right at the parenting thing here?
Speaker 1: So there's a lot you have to decide. But I think that this is the question is almost like, What do you have to work on decisions about, Right?
Speaker 2: Yes. And I'm going to go right to the moment where the gift exchange happens, where there is a moment of responsibility
Speaker 2: where you receive the gift. Well, yes, and we say on the show we've been saying it for I can't believe I'm about to say this five years now, almost,
Speaker 2: you receive a gift
Speaker 2: with the same spirit of generosity with which it's given, and
Speaker 2: even if the gift is not your favorite thing. And this is true for adults, just the way it's true for Children, just the way it's true for parents managing Children receiving gifts that you can always thank someone for the thought, the effort for thinking of you for
Speaker 2: doing the gift giving act, which is itself a generosity. And you thank them for that and you receive the gift and you're not making any promises about what you're going to do with it. You're not making any promises that you're going to like it. You don't need to disassemble or tell lies. In fact, I would strongly suggest you don't owe. This was the thing I wanted when it really wasn't. But you do thank them for making that effort,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't need to be a big deal. Thank you so much for thinking of us. Thank you for being here at this birthday and for celebrating with us. That is,
Speaker 1: that's such a nice thank you, Dan.
Speaker 2: That's enough. You've met your etiquette obligation, and when the party's over,
Speaker 2: you can proceed and do with that toy. Really, whatever you want. That's your freedom.
Speaker 2: I also liked how Lizzie opened up the possibility of having a discussion with other parents ahead of time that you look for that moment of opportunity after the R S V. P.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker 2: this is one of those places where As a parent, you have a little more latitude because parents do get to set some terms and parameters around exposure for their kids. And sometimes that's video games of a certain nature or media of a certain nature. In this case, toys that teach characters it can really be wherever you make the line.
Speaker 2: I think the easiest way to share where you've drawn your lines is to talk in the positive. So talk about the gifts that are okay, the options that are available to people and let them know what
Speaker 2: that is so that they can make a good choice. You don't need to spend a lot of time talking about the reasons why you're not doing certain things or everything that falls into the category of no
Speaker 1: right, right. Um, finally, even just having some good companies to turn to as suggestions is nice, because then you're like, I know that you know, these places are great. Making sure that your suggestions have a range of price ranges within them is also really, really important.
Speaker 1: You don't want to make your philosophy something that makes someone feel like the birthday party is inaccessible to them. I don't think you're in particular does it? Sounds like there are lots of options in a wide range for a family to be able to participate in
Speaker 1: anonymous. We really hope that this helps paint a picture for a pathway forward.
Speaker 2: He was also having fun playing with the birthday presents his friends and his family had given him.
Speaker 2: He was going to enjoy these toys for a long time,
Speaker 2: but there was one present skipper didn't know about yet.
Speaker 2: Mother knew about it. Father knew about it.
Speaker 2: And we know about it, too.
Speaker 2: Software.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 2: Our next question is about an awkward afterthought.
Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan. A few months ago, I was put in a sticky situation, and although I hope to not experience anything like it again, I would like your feedback on what I should have done. My long term boyfriend is one of two adult siblings, his sister living in another country and the two of us living together.
Speaker 2: Recently, his family was invited to his cousin's wedding.
Speaker 2: The invitation was sent to his parents' house, listing their immediate family names despite him and his sister living in their own homes
Speaker 2: because his sister lives so far away and would not be able to attend. My boyfriend's mother asked if I would like her to reach out on my behalf and asked if I could take her place.
Speaker 2: I declined feeling that if they had wanted me there, I would have been included on the invite.
Speaker 2: I was not hurt at all by not being included as I don't know the couple very well.
Speaker 2: But despite this she contacted the couple anyway,
Speaker 2: and begrudgingly they extended an invitation to me. I was embarrassed and felt unwanted, So I decided to not attend when the day came.
Speaker 2: But then at the ceremony, other family members were asking about me and where I was. Was I wrong for not attending?
Speaker 2: Or was I right? In feeling like I was a pity invite?
Speaker 2: I would love any advice you have. Thanks for your show. It has changed my life. Best not invited,
Speaker 1: not invited. This is such a complex, complex question. We've got a lot that kind of went downhill here and a lot to unpack. So I want to dive right in.
Speaker 1: The very first thing is that you are right. As a long term partner, Um having a long term established boyfriend that the family well knows about and living separately from the adult parents. You as opposed to the child parents? Uh, the adult parents. This couple who did the inviting didn't do right by not inviting these adult Children who live separately from their parents in their own way. It happens a lot. A lot of times people get lazy. Um, welcome to the world of wedding planning. When you choose to have x number of guests come, you then need to do the work of inviting them properly. And that didn't happen here. I'm not saying that that then gives license for people to be rude in return.
Speaker 1: But I am saying that a well issued invitation would have made you feel included because typically
Speaker 1: you should be included in this type of social invitation. You're a long established couple who live together.
Speaker 1: That should just happen.
Speaker 1: So that didn't happen. And sister wasn't able to go. So we're saying now, you know Hey, family now knows there's an open spot. Can we invite long term partner right?
Speaker 2: So question Lizzie Post wedding etiquette Author, is it okay for the guests to play
Speaker 2: guest list managers. In that way,
Speaker 1: this is dicey. I could say no. Generally, you do not ever ask someone to invite an extra guest
Speaker 1: in this particular case. I do think that this falls under. We think a mistake was made, which, for instance, when someone's husband or wife, you know, when someone's spouse isn't invited, that's the time to speak up and say, I think a mistake was made.
Speaker 1: Jim's name isn't on the invitation, and we weren't sure if you would just not invited us as a couple. But we wanted to ask first before just assuming he was invited.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: That could have been one avenue this family could have pursued. By the way,
Speaker 2: I think the long term partner should be invited, and it's a big enough mistake that it's okay to make that ask if
Speaker 2: you have been invited.
Speaker 2: I don't think the reason is because you know the sister isn't
Speaker 1: exactly that's so fault. Number two comes that this ask was made not quite in.
Speaker 1: There's a right way to make this ask, and it didn't happen for the right reasons, and that's what makes it different,
Speaker 2: which doesn't allow the host to say Oh, of course we really want So and so there we intended that we thought it would be assumed based on their long term partnership. But
Speaker 1: I got to back you up, Dan, because there's still one more gap that we're missing in here. And that's the fact that so when
Speaker 1: we found out, Sister couldn't come and Mom has the brilliant idea of inviting partner to come. Instead,
Speaker 1: Mom asks partner If this would be okay, Partner says, No, please don't do that. That would embarrass me. Mom does it anyway.
Speaker 1: Like that to me, automatically puts partner in a place of saying No, I really I really didn't ask for that. I really would be uncomfortable. I would like to decline this invitation. Here's what we don't know.
Speaker 1: When Mom asked, and Cousins begrudgingly said that they would invite the partner.
Speaker 1: I don't know how we know that was grudgingly. I don't know what was said, what was done, or if that's just an assumption, because it's easy to feel like that assumption is right to make and a lot of people make it and it shouldn't be made,
Speaker 1: so I want to give fairness to the fact that we don't know that.
Speaker 1: Next I question another thing that we don't know. We don't know whether Partner said yes or was forced by Mom to say yes to this invitation, having secured it
Speaker 1: and then chose on the day of to just simply not show up or whether partner declined the invitation and did not end up coming to the wedding. And there are two different things.
Speaker 1: One is more on a path of reasonable etiquette of this invitation has now been forced upon you, and you're really saying No, I'm really going to put up my boundary and say I'm not going to go. I think that would have been fine. I don't think it's maybe the best olive branch and and way to just simply join a family and be part of things and go for it and kind of put the slight behind you, you know, But it's absolutely a polite way to handle. It is just as a choice. It's a choice
Speaker 1: not knowing that I don't know how bad it was that you didn't show up on the day of the wedding.
Speaker 2: I want to grab that olive branch that you laid out there and run with it. This is such a complicated situation, and right at the start, our question NASCAR has said, I don't think this is ever going to happen again. What should I have done? At what point in all of this could I have
Speaker 2: taking the initiative and brought my best self to get a better outcome? And to me, it's the moment when that invitation does arrive. Whatever proceeded it. Whatever feelings have been played with or have toggle back and forth on that meter of different ends
Speaker 1: of the specter, the grudge, no begrudge. That's
Speaker 2: the moment when you get to say to yourself, I've been invited to a wedding. Hopefully, this is going to be one of the most significant days in someone's life to people's lives. Maybe two families lives, and I get to be a part of it. And you bring your best self to that. If you can go, you say it's my honor. It's my privilege. I'd like to attend, and then you go and attend. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's how you handle it in the future.
Speaker 1: That that is the best possible way is to take that feeling that something was
Speaker 1: out of pity or that you were somehow a Plan B and saying, I'm not gonna let that interrupt building more moments with the family
Speaker 1: that I am connected to.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the like. Get to the good place, using etiquette.
Speaker 1: That's the way to do it.
Speaker 2: Not invited. We hope that this helps the next time being not invited turns into being invited. Or at least that the answer gives some perspective. We so appreciate that this show has been impactful for you and we hope this answer helps. You
Speaker 1: will get an
Speaker 2: invitation to the party. Has just been some mix up waiting.
Speaker 2: See?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's not important anyhow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Good night, Mother. Good night, Cindy.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Doggy Downer. Hello, Lizzie and Daniel. Perhaps you can help me with a new problem.
Speaker 1: I have just welcomed my third pure bred visual A puppy into my life. I have had to others and really love the breed. However, this time around I am being puppy shamed. People are lecturing me on the importance of getting only rescue dogs
Speaker 1: and that somehow I am setting a poor example for future dog owners.
Speaker 1: I am very responsible about my pet ownership. And while I appreciate the intentions of well meaning people, I would like not to have to apologize for my choice in raising voiceless.
Speaker 1: Can you help me with some of your remarkably helpful and respectful language to make people comfortable with my lovely pet?
Speaker 1: Thank you,
Speaker 2: Audrey. Audrey, I want to send you a message of hope from the Recording Studios of Vermont Public Radio, where Lizzie Post, a rescue dog owner, is sitting across the table from Daniel Post, sending a pure bred toy poodle owner.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 2: we live in harmony,
Speaker 2: and I think we're respectful to each other most of the time.
Speaker 1: I think if any judgment has come over the years between us, it's more on actual style of like training than anything else, or or potentially like competition about the train ability of our two dogs.
Speaker 2: Oh, no, I lose Rogers Terrible, just terrible. Maybe
Speaker 1: then competition of who's cuter. But this is a real judgment that people experience and that people throw and that has a lot behind it.
Speaker 1: It's a complex issue, and
Speaker 1: so right now I've got sunny in a puppy preschool class and you know, we go and we learn basics, and I basically learned how to be much better responsible dog person. But one of the things I said was I said, We've got this question coming up on our podcast. I'm curious your thoughts on it to the trainers and they said, Well, you know, we've worked in shelters for years and
Speaker 1: all types of dogs pure, bred and non can end up as rescue dogs. And I think that's something that people do need to remember. It sounds like you got them from a breeder. I mean, that's what that isn't explicitly said here.
Speaker 1: But it's important to know the difference between responsible practices and irresponsible practices in all aspects of dog ownership. There are rescue organizations that aren't the best rescue organizations. There are breeders that are not responsible breeders. I think one of the biggest things that you can use to turn that conversation around when you feel like it's an attack on your judgment is to talk about how important it is to be aware of where your puppy is coming from and how you're going to be a responsible person to that puppy
Speaker 1: throughout its lifetime so that it doesn't contribute to, you know, over breeding or pet populations or disease or injury. When we think about, you know, dogs that aren't trained and worked with well and then become a problem to other people. So it's a tough conversation to have thrown at you a lot. And being someone who has has chosen the path of going, it sounds like through a breeder at least going the pure bred route.
Speaker 1: It's a conversation you're going to experience, so I think you want to get comfortable having it, and you want to get comfortable finding your confidence in why you choose and work with the people do. My parents had the same reader for their dogs for years, and I love her. I think she's wonderful. I think she's a great person in life. I still choose to adopt rescue dogs because that's where my heart and my joy goes. But Avery and Navy were amazing dogs, and my parents loved getting them from a woman who they knew how she cared for her pups. They knew how responsible she was. They knew what they could expect with dogs from that line and I think you should have some confidence in making the choice that you're making and people who are out there listening to this who don't have confidence in that choice. Then think about that and think about making a different choice. But I think you can get through the conversation, and I think you can open up a lot of realities of the entire world of dog ownership and dog responsibility
Speaker 1: through what essentially is judgment coming at you.
Speaker 2: I can't believe we ever had a question on the show called Doggy Downer,
Speaker 1: because
Speaker 2: for me, dogs are such expressions of pure love and you as a dog owner, as a dog parent in quotation marks. I want to,
Speaker 2: um, really applaud you for taking care of that unconditional love in a way that's responsible. And I love the idea of being ready to have that conversation as a way to
Speaker 2: deflect or get away from the judgment that you're experiencing. Because that is the good etiquette answer, as opposed to
Speaker 2: challenging someone or responding in kind with similar judgment or with anger
Speaker 2: or even sadness to that kind of judgment.
Speaker 2: Audrey have so much fun with your new puppy and we hope that these kind of conversations are few and far between. You're not a bad doggy Penny.
Speaker 2: What you did just wasn't nice, Franks,
Speaker 2: but I guess we weren't nice to you. Work.
Speaker 2: We love you, Penny.
Speaker 2: We always will.
Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463
Speaker 2: or reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute
Speaker 2: and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that you know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air.
Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. And today we hear from tests and Soraya
Speaker 1: hello as a tech worker who's very interested in the attention economy and how little micro interruptions can add up to significantly affect your clarity of mind. I was glad to hear Dan's stand up for healthy boundaries
Speaker 1: around robocalls,
Speaker 1: a quick tech tip that's absolutely changed my life in the past few months. IOS now has a setting called Silence Unknown Callers. It automatically sends any calls from people not in your context to voicemail with no ring.
Speaker 1: Spammers can no longer annoy me during meetings, dinner and all other inopportune times.
Speaker 1: It used to happen. Just go to settings phone and find silence. Unknown callers to flip this on.
Speaker 1: I realize this doesn't help for people who have business landlines, but for the rest of us, it's a game changer, and I'm not an android expert, but I'm willing to bet they've got a similar feature or an app that can do the same. Cheers tests from Richmond, Virginia, where I am headed soon.
Speaker 2: Tess, you are my new hero. I will be going to the settings on my device as I walk out of this studio and giving this a try, and Soraya writes, Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I loved your response to the Episode 2 81 question about the UK raise celebration. It also made me laugh, because the Navy and a few other branches of the uniformed services have a well worn custom around promotions called a wedding down that is
Speaker 2: very similar in concept, though slightly more raucous in execution. A wedding down is always hosted and paid for by the officer getting promoted. And it traditionally involves that officer spending the difference between
Speaker 2: her old and new salaries on the bar tab for her old buddies. And there's a little a emoticon face with a tongue sticking out.
Speaker 2: Given that the invitation the collar got seemed perfectly reasonable to me, excited to have awesome etiquette in the new year. Soraya
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh, how do you save anything? I
Speaker 2: think this is just a one time.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping. I don't know what I want to Soraya. We want to know more. Please give us the full load down.
Speaker 1: Anyone else who's participated in this tradition, please let us know how it went for you. Is it expected every time we want more details? How does this custom work?
Speaker 2: It is so much fun to hear about military traditions. Please do keep these coming. Thank
Speaker 1: you for sending us your thoughts and updates, and please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d.
Speaker 1: That's 802858546
Speaker 2: three
Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and today we're going to continue with our top 10 most searched content with number six addressing wedding invitations. Dan, this category is huge.
Speaker 2: It really is. In fact, it's such a huge topic
Speaker 2: is entire chapters of our wedding etiquette book.
Speaker 2: And even with all of that space and all of those words dedicated to it, it's probably the question that we get called about the most at Emily Post. And I will say I was
Speaker 2: not as sympathetic as I am now. Before I wrote my own wedding invitations and struggled with it so much and spent days with Virginia Kaiser, who I love dearly and want to thank if she's out there listening right now for spending the time with me to get the wording on my wedding invitations. Correct.
Speaker 2: And it's a moment. It's the moment when you're inviting people. In many ways
Speaker 2: you're officially announcing your wedding and the structure and nature of the event. So
Speaker 2: I appreciate why we get so many questions about it, why people turn to Emily Post at this moment, and
Speaker 2: we're going to limit our discussion to what we talk about on the Web page itself. That is the most
Speaker 2: what, sixth most search page on our website
Speaker 1: page, and I will tell you, even doing that, prepare yourselves. This is going to be an extra long show. Well, let's
Speaker 2: start at the beginning, maybe even before the beginning,
Speaker 1: or maybe even before the beginning. Exactly. Before you begin, you want to allow plenty of time to address, assemble and mail all your invitations. Timing is really key for this, so when you start thinking about wedding invitations, your first question is, what date is today? What date is the wedding? What do I need to have happened in between. There are lots of different ways to go about securing wedding invitations and getting them.
Speaker 1: But it is no joke that any time you're planning a party where you've got more than 10 guests
Speaker 1: corralling addresses, making sure you're addressing people by correct names, making sure that you've got partners who have been living together paired up correctly as we heard in the debacle question earlier today, it's really important that you get this right and so pay attention to the list that you have to work with.
Speaker 2: If you're ordering invitations from India,
Speaker 2: let's just say allow a little extra time for them to
Speaker 1: arrive.
Speaker 2: Order extras. You're going to make mistakes along the way. Give yourself a little bit of room to breathe and
Speaker 2: give yourself quite a bit of room to breathe because you're going to want to get these out in time.
Speaker 1: You definitely want to consider the reply address that you're going to use. Guest responses and gifts are likely going to be sent to the return address that is on the outer envelope unless you are specifying something else on the R S v P.
Speaker 1: But if guests should reply to a different address. You really want to use it for the reply card envelope or listed below the R S V P line on the invitation. So those are the two places where it would come up if it's going somewhere else. Otherwise, people are going to use that return address that you choose. So if it's better to have mom receiving all of the replies, use Mom's address and indicate that
Speaker 2: keep track of your addresses. Start to put together your spreadsheet, get it set up in a way that it's going to be useful for you. You're going to avoid the kind of problem we encountered earlier in the show, where people were using parents of adult grown kids with their own houses as a default address.
Speaker 2: Allow for the time that it's going to take to actually figure out where you're going to be sending these things and start to compile that list as a master resource early.
Speaker 1: This is a great tip that's away. Think ahead tip,
Speaker 1: and it's about the response card that you have if you're using response cards,
Speaker 1: and the extra tip is to lightly mark the back of each card with an identifying number. I know this sounds really silly,
Speaker 1: but it's going to help you keep track of what person is connected to what R. S V. P. Number. Because some people don't fill out their reply cards when they send their R S V p and they just send it
Speaker 1: or they check a box and they don't put their name or they put their name and they don't check either box. This is such a great tip there. I know. So this is one of those where this is like Tricia posts that are organizing best is like, this would be a way to solve this problem.
Speaker 1: Definitely take them time, even if you have a 200 person guest list to write a number and make sure you correspond the number on a spreadsheet to the couple or the person that you're writing, too.
Speaker 1: And it will help you in the long run in case people don't r s v p properly
Speaker 2: and a final thought in that category of this sounds so obvious, but it really is worth saying. Be so careful with those physical invitations. Once you get them,
Speaker 2: keep them in clean places use tables that are not likely to have spills on them. Don't drop them in the snowbank when you're walking them into your house. Just take care with those invitations.
Speaker 1: I don't think that it's funny to scare the living daylights out of your cousin by bringing a bowl of chili near them.
Speaker 2: Did you do that? I Am I forgetting something totally would have.
Speaker 1: Um, no. It's a great tip. Keep everything nice and clean. The other tip that we can't stress enough. We've touched on it. But I think it's really, really important, especially in today's day and age is that you want to double check the spelling of your guests names, their preference in titles for social occasions.
Speaker 1: These sort of things you want to have a complete lockdown on and make sure that you know that
Speaker 1: Pooja does go by pooches sending as opposed to Puja Gupta. It's really important that you get names and titles right and so asking ahead of time is really, really key
Speaker 1: when it comes to addressing envelopes. The other thing that we have also recently heard about in today's episode is the fact that no matter what invitations are always addressed to both members of a married couple.
Speaker 1: We say that this also goes for long established couples. You don't have to have legally participated in marriage for this to be considered a social obligation.
Speaker 1: You don't just leave Dan's name off because you know Pooja, it's just not the way it goes. As a long term established couple, you are recognized socially as a couple and invited as a couple.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about inner and outer envelopes. Okay,
Speaker 2: The inner envelope gives you an opportunity to be a little more specific with who's being invited than a mailing address sometimes allows for. It's also a chance for a slightly more personal approach. In some ways,
Speaker 2: Lizzie, break it down for us.
Speaker 1: So okay, running straight through this. If Children are invited but are not receiving a separate invitation, then their names may be written on a line below their parents' names on the inner envelope.
Speaker 1: If no inner envelope is used, then the Children's names are written on the outer envelope. Blow the names of their parents
Speaker 1: so you would have Pooja and Dan sending, and then you would have you know a Nisha's name listed in full Anisha sending, and then Ari is sending listed below her. So you typically you put the kids in order of age, but you don't have to
Speaker 2: stack not on the same.
Speaker 1: But they're stacked. They're not on the same line.
Speaker 1: I used the familiar names and the example that I gave. It's also okay for the outer envelope to have the formal name and the inner envelope to have the familiar names. So, for instance, an invitation to my grandmother might read Mrs Patricia Colby. And then the inner envelope might read Granny Pat.
Speaker 2: I like Granny Pat. I like the inner envelope allowing for that level of
Speaker 2: informality, which can feel very personal and very close. In fact, Emily thought it was the hallmark of a really well delivered wedding invitation.
Speaker 1: So the outer envelope. Then the outer envelope is addressed conventionally, using titles, first, middle and last names. This is like our formal presentation.
Speaker 1: An invitation to an unmarried couple who reside at the same address is addressed with both names connected by the word, and you can use one or two lines depending on the length when any time that the names are too long to fit on one line together. Then you drop down to the next line and in dense slightly. That's what shows that it's all supposed to be together. There just wasn't enough room
Speaker 1: when you do the drop that we spoke of before, where Dan's child's name would be dropped below he and pooches names. That's an indication that they're not married. They're not a couple that they just simply reside in the same space but are different individuals.
Speaker 2: And just for the record, just because we said it's
Speaker 2: okay to use middle names on the outer envelope doesn't mean you need to get everybody's middle
Speaker 1: name.
Speaker 1: One thing that's interesting to note is that while titles are abbreviated, so mix Mr Mrs Ms Ms Doctor, all other words, such as Street Boulevard Avenue, are spelled out. State names may be written in full, or you can use the two letter postal code abbreviation.
Speaker 1: Middle initials aren't typically used, so either right out the middle name or don't use it at all. And then generally, an invitation to parents and Children is addressed just to the parents.
Speaker 1: You can do the family thing, though, if you want the family sending the sending family
Speaker 2: for a more comprehensive breakdown on forms of address. I'm going to refer you to our guide to addressing correspondence, another highly searched item on our website that we don't have time to get into every element of right now.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. But we can talk about things like how to address a married couple. Invitations are always addressed to both members of a married couple. Even though the bridegroom may know only one of the couple or may know that only one will attend,
Speaker 1: you still send the invitation to both of them, and then they reply back, with just one being able to attend.
Speaker 1: Next up is when we have a married woman, doctor or two married doctors. If the woman uses her husband's name socially, then you want to address Dr Barbara and Mr James Warner. If she uses her maiden name both professionally and socially, then it's Dr Barbara Hansen
Speaker 1: and Mr James Warner.
Speaker 1: And if the husband is also a doctor, the addresses either the doctors Werner or doctors Barbara and Robert Warner.
Speaker 2: So what about that guest? If you want to add a guest, the two envelope system works really well because you can
Speaker 2: address the outer envelope to the person that you're inviting and then on the inner envelope, Right, Mr James Smith and Guest.
Speaker 2: If you're not using two envelopes, if you're just using an outer envelope, it would feel a little awkward to write Mr James Smith and Guest as a recipient. So you include that on the invitation itself. Dear James, maybe with a little No, you're welcome to bring a guest to the wedding. Please let me know best Laura. It's
Speaker 2: also a possibility to use the reply card to reinforce that message You could include and guest on the reply card. And that's another little reminder to someone that they're welcome both to bring someone and to let you know that they're bringing that
Speaker 1: person. And remember that the more formal that you would be, you'd be including a separate note as opposed to writing on the invitation itself.
Speaker 2: How about stuffing those envelope? We
Speaker 1: get so many questions about this. Okay,
Speaker 1: when you have two envelopes inner and outer being used, you want to insert the invitation folded edge first for a folded invitation, left edge for a single card that doesn't have any kind of fold over on it
Speaker 1: so that you see the printed side of the invitation when the envelope flap is open. So when someone opens that they should immediately be able to see through that kind of little triangle space. The written part of the invitation, Unless it's a fold over and you want
Speaker 2: that as it slides out to open the way a book would open or from the top
Speaker 1: when there are enclosures, the reply card and envelope, a map printed directions, things to do that sort of thing. Little
Speaker 2: handwritten note saying Please bring a little
Speaker 1: handwritten note saying, Please bring you guys. They are placed on top of the printed side of the invitation with their printed sides up
Speaker 1: in size. Order with the smallest on top, right, so we don't lose things
Speaker 1: again. When the flap is open, the printed side should be visible if the invitation is folded. The insertions are stacked in size order smallest on top, but they're placed within the fold.
Speaker 1: Tissues are optional. If used, they are placed on top of the invitation, which is also below any enclosures. If the invitation is folded, they are inserted into the fold.
Speaker 1: The inner envelope is then placed unsealed
Speaker 1: in the outer envelope
Speaker 1: so that when the outer envelope flap is lifted, the names of the guests are visible through again. That little triangle space. Before you seal that outer envelope double and triple check that the names on the inner and outer envelopes are going to match up. You don't want to start mixing them.
Speaker 1: Finally, Dan, take us away with mailing.
Speaker 2: We're ready to go
Speaker 2: before you buy stamps. Take the assembled invitation to the post office. Have it weighed. And
Speaker 1: just a sample.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm almost going to suggest that you do this ahead of time because you should know. But do it with the final
Speaker 1: because all the inserts everything's ready to go.
Speaker 2: Best laid plans of mice and men. Be sure you've got the correct postage. Remember that
Speaker 2: unusually sized envelopes might cost a little more to send, So you want to be taking that into account as well as weight. Definitely talk to someone at the post office if you can, because the last thing you want is everything coming back.
Speaker 2: Choose a stamp that you like the look of. There are lots of options out there. Don't let that final aesthetic choice be the one that throws off the look of your wedding invitation
Speaker 2: and get them in the mail on time. Adhere to those deadlines that you set up when you did that timeline that we talked about at the very start of this segment.
Speaker 1: That is our as fast as we can. Here's the skinny on wedding invitations. We didn't get into special circumstances for wording. We barely got into wording.
Speaker 1: There is so much more we could talk about. There's so much more to explore on our website about wedding invitations. And as you know, we love your wedding invitation questions, so please keep them coming on the show.
Speaker 1: This conversation never dies. It never goes away. We will always want to issue wedding invitations well, and there will always be a way to do that.
Speaker 2: And since we're getting into the meat of the best etiquette content, we get to talk about, stay tuned for next week's postscript where we will talk about the formal place setting.
Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note, so we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world, and that can come in so many forms today. We hear from Anna in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: I would like to salute the passengers on the southbound Marta train on my way to the Atlanta airport. Oh, I know that
Speaker 1: train
Speaker 2: First, an older gentleman with a walking stick got on and struggled to find seating. At the same moment, several people shifted seats and helped him sit safely in the moving train. The older gentleman sat across from another man about his age, who was pretty talkative. He mentioned he hadn't eaten in a while, not asking for anything, just a statement.
Speaker 2: The original older gentleman reached into his bag and pulled out a fast food sandwich and a dessert and handed it to him.
Speaker 2: The recipient smiles and joked, Now I just need some water and life would be perfect. A third man who had just got on handed him his water bottle.
Speaker 2: The man next to me said, I've only been here one day, and I'm amazed by the kindness I've seen. I couldn't agree more, and I'm proud of my fellow Atlantans.
Speaker 2: Anna from Atlanta.
Speaker 1: I love that I love when you can feel proud about where you live because you see the people around your community helping people.
Speaker 2: What a sweet scene. I can just picture it all unfolding and the goodwill that just sort of glows
Speaker 1: out from it. Totally, totally.
Speaker 2: Anna, thank you for sharing this with all of us
Speaker 1: and thank you for listening
Speaker 2: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and thank you to everyone who supports us on patreon that is going so well. You've inspired me to find some of my favorite creators on patreon to support as well.
Speaker 1: Please connect with us and share this show with friends, family and coworkers. And don't forget to also share it on social media.
Speaker 2: You can send us your next question comment, feedback or salute by email to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com
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Speaker 2: Our show is edited by Chris Albertine and a system produced by Bridget Down Thanks
Speaker 1: Kris and Brigitte.