Episode 286 - Electric Etiquette

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social goodness. See, it's old fashioned

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Speaker 2: watch how busy post and then post

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Speaker 1: to act as host and hostess.

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Speaker 2: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette,

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, we take your questions on extroverts, making friends in their thirties being respectful at religious ceremonies when you're not religious sample scripts for soon to be mothers trying to stay healthy and electric car etiquette

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Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about at home

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Speaker 2: cards,

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Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on our number five most searched topic on Emily Post com Formal place setting

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Speaker 1: All That's Coming up

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Speaker 2: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont Public Radio and is proud to be produced in Burlington, Vermont, by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lizzie Post

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Speaker 2: and I'm Dan Post sending.

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Speaker 1: We got the funniest DM from one of our listeners on Instagram, and we had to re post it to the Emily Post Institute Instagram account, and it's hysterical.

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Speaker 2: Go Awesome etiquette audience Go instagram. This was

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Speaker 2: original dining etiquette humor. I feel like I've heard everything when it comes to knives and spoons and forks and how you use them. But this alien comic with a parent teaching a child alien how to use these strange new utensils got original laugh out of Lizzie Post a dad setting when we saw it for the first time.

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Speaker 1: The account Nathan W. Piles Strange Planet posted a comic, and it's like a four panel of aliens teaching their kid table manners. And it says, Please see stabbing with your slicer. Your stabber stabs your slicer slices and your scooper scoops pipes. The other alien parent,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the stabber slices

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Speaker 2: when substances soft. I

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Speaker 1: know how to ingest the little alien child says,

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Speaker 2: but we don't want other beings to know that, you know.

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Speaker 1: So they know that we know

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Speaker 2: stabber, slicer, scooper and the witness, the observer of the dining etiquette experience, all wrapped up in one

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Speaker 1: well, and the whole idea that, like parenting, is no, it's not about that. You can ingest the food. It's about the other. People know that we taught you how to ingest the food.

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Speaker 1: It's so

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Speaker 2: great. It was so apropo. We will be doing our post script on this show about the formal place setting. So

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Speaker 2: pardon us as we descend into table manners and dining etiquette for just a moment. This is, uh, speaking

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Speaker 1: out.

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Speaker 2: It is a delicious place for an etiquette expert.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 1: All jokes aside, should we get to some questions today?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 Or you can reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst

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Speaker 1: on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 1: Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media post. So we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 1: Mm.

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Speaker 2: Mhm.

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Speaker 2: Our first question today comes from an exhausted extroverts.

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Speaker 2: Dear Dan and Lizzie, I hope that you and your amazing podcast can help me with something I've been struggling with as an adult how to make new friends.

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Speaker 2: My husband and I live in a major city, but feel that our friend group is shrinking as more and more of us millennials move due to high cost of living.

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Speaker 2: Now that I'm in my thirties and can no longer just walk up to someone on the playground and say, I want to be friends,

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Speaker 2: I'm getting nervous and it seems our social circle is getting smaller and smaller.

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Speaker 2: I am a textbook extroverts, and often I'm told I come on too strong when meeting others.

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Speaker 2: I hate this because to me I am just behaving the way I would like to be treated and also because if I do not socialize regularly, I become very depressed, a common issue for extroverts like myself.

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Speaker 2: There seems to be so much out there about understanding, introverts, but little being done to explain extroverts. We are solar powered, and spending time with others is our sunshine.

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Speaker 2: I am confused by the social dance that seems to happen when we meet a new couple, and I am not sure how to move forward. For example, at a cooking class, we met another couple around our age who were lovely and lived in our neighborhood. I got their numbers and texted them, asking if they wanted to get together at a local wine bar the following weekend on President's Day,

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Speaker 2: it took them a while to reply,

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Speaker 2: and when they did, they were going out of town.

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Speaker 2: I understand not everyone is glued to their phones, so I tried to be understanding. But I am now not sure if I should try to reach out again or take it as a sign they are not interested in getting together.

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Speaker 2: On top of this, there is an extra level of confusion that, due to my job, calendar management is my life. So when someone invites me to do something and it doesn't work, I always counter back with the time that does.

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Speaker 2: I am never sure if people who just say no are brushing me off, unaware they're being a little rude but not telling me when would work for them or just something else.

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Speaker 2: What do you think I should do with this couple and moving forward in the future as I try to keep our social circle as large as I can.

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Speaker 1: Oh, extroverts. I am so glad that you wrote into us because you're right. We do so often hear about introverts. It's nice to hear the other side of it and then where the etiquette dilemmas occur. But this is something I struggle with. Two. I feel like I can sometimes be very

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so excited to meet you and let's get together. And that would be great. And you kind of follow that in person enthusiasm up with an enthusiastic invitation and then

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Speaker 1: silence.

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Speaker 1: Or sometimes, you know without like you're saying a follow up of when we could.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes when you're inviting new people into your crowd, it can be easier to do it in a group setting, sometimes inviting them to that. Maybe if it's the holidays, the holiday party or a bigger backyard barbecue. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, just a larger night where more is going on and they can kind of feel like, Oh, I could I could come or I could not come And there's not quite as much pressure on a new friendship. That's just one of one of the ways that you might approach it in the future.

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Speaker 2: I had a really similar thought. I was thinking about how you can lean on social structures and groups as well. And I was.

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Speaker 2: My advice was become a joiner. Look for things that are already going on

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Speaker 1: events

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Speaker 2: and in some ways, the cooking class. That was the beginning of what we hope will be a new friendship here. Sounds like an example of that, but I would say really lean into that. Keep looking for things that did in your schedule that are

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Speaker 2: aligned with your interests and participate. Participate. Participate instead of

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Speaker 2: thinking of yourself as the center of that social circle, look for social circles that you can easily tap into and just do. That's

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Speaker 1: a good idea to

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Speaker 2: with a lot of enthusiasm.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that. Like, if you know of groups of friends like I don't want to say, try to get into them because that sounds silly. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: this couple, it sounds like they had a lot of friends, and now people are moving away, and the question is, how do we make those new friends? And I like your idea of your at the cooking class. Let that cooking class environment be what stews that friendship percolates. That friendship heats up that friendship. I don't know what kind of cooking metaphor we want to use their, but I think that that's actually the good place to do it. That maybe I don't want to say maybe it was too soon to invite for an out of class get together. But it's just that class offers, especially if it's a regular one. It offers repeated weeks of getting to know someone. I know the puppy classes that I take my dog, too.

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Speaker 1: I kind of have now my puppy social and my puppy class friends. And now there are some of them I'd probably be willing to say, like, Hey, do you want to get together? And like, you know, take the dogs for a walk or something like that? Or, you know, you might suggest to this other couple, Do you guys want to come over and cook something we learned from class?

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Speaker 2: I think that is a perfect example. It might take a little patience, and that can be hard for an extra vert for whom

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Speaker 2: that human contact is like sunshine and I love that description that is so nice to hear someone who feels that way about connecting with other people.

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Speaker 2: But it might just take the same amount of time that, believe it or not, a lot of those established friendships required when they were beginning. Also, it wasn't just that you walked up on the playground and said, Do you want to be my friend? There's a good chance that you were at daycare or at school with those people are at the same community park that you visited repeatedly.

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Speaker 2: Those friendships had time to germinate and grow

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Speaker 2: as well, and it might just require that at this stage in life also, the thing that you're describing happens. It

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Speaker 2: is a phenomenon that people have identified, that it gets harder and harder to make friends later and later in life. I do think there's something that happens around retirement where people trip over a certain line. All of a sudden they start being parts of communities where there's a lot of free time, a lot of emphasis on social engagement and activity.

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Speaker 2: So

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Speaker 2: keep your keep your hopes and your spirits up. There will be a moment where I think it will start to go the other way again as well. But at this more difficult stage,

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Speaker 2: lean into the etiquette of interactions, and this is where we can give some good etiquette advice. So you've made an invitation that didn't get a good R S v p.

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Speaker 2: Don't let that dissuade you. That is a general problem. Today it's okay to issue a follow up invitation. It's okay to continue to reach out and engage people and just remind yourself not to take it personally.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. You don't want to feel like you have to take this to personally or that it means that you can't reach back out to someone for an invitation following up.

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Speaker 1: You certainly can. One thing I want to go back to those who is the idea of where you can meet new people as an adult. Come on. You didn't actually talk about it like there are actual meet up groups. There are clubs you can join. There are things like that.

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Speaker 1: One thing I want to go back to those that in the world we have today, there are so many places to make friends as adults. You know,

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Speaker 1: this particular question references a cooking class. But also think of clubs that you can join common interest groups that you can join. I think that those kinds of things offer you a starting point with people. And when it is a place you're going to go repeatedly

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Speaker 1: consistently, you know you do start to become part of another community. Um, for me here in Burlington, Vermont, that was a golf course, you know, and I know for Dan you met your wife through dance community. Um, but there are also I used to run a soccer league through a website called Meet Up. And there are ways to use things like online online groups and online organizing to also find other adults to befriend.

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Speaker 2: As far as this particular couple from the cooking class and advice on moving forward,

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Speaker 2: we've said, definitely Don't take it personally. Issue another invite. Keep your antenna out. Notice if someone said no a couple times in a row or the feeling you're getting about the no and sometimes that's the lack of engagement. Sometimes there's a oh no, we can't do it. But we would so love

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Speaker 1: to listen

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Speaker 2: to that. When someone tells you that indefinitely.

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Speaker 2: Try again.

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Speaker 2: You might end up needing to be a bit of a leader in this situation and embrace your identification as an extroverted play. That role become that person that connects people in your community. I am sure there are other people out there who are feeling similar to you or who

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Speaker 2: could really use someone like you in their life.

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Speaker 2: Extroverts. Thank you for the question.

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Speaker 2: We wish you the best of luck moving forward and please keep us posted. We want to hear more about how this is going, what works and what doesn't.

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Speaker 2: I guess Joe's friendship turned out to be

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Speaker 2: sort of infectious.

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Speaker 2: From Joe. I learned how to be a friend

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Speaker 2: and how to make friends.

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Speaker 2: That one friendship often leads to others

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Speaker 2: and, best of all, to appreciate and enjoy people of many varying backgrounds and personalities.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir, with friends. It's a great old world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,

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Speaker 1: our next question is titled Pregnant and Panicked.

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Speaker 1: It's probably not what you're thinking.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Lizzie and Dan. My friend is a therapist who works one on one with clients. One of her clients just came back from an affected part of China and just got off quarantine for two weeks for a virus. She did not contract it but was exposed.

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Speaker 2: It seems like it would be safe to see the client, but my friend is also very pregnant and nervous.

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Speaker 2: Would you have any sample script advice if she does not feel comfortable seeing her but can offer to Skype with her?

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Speaker 2: The client is waiting for a reply and has had some stressful life events, So I'm hoping to help her come up with something soon. Any help you can provide would be extremely appreciated.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for all that you do and all of the wonderful advice and kindness you put out into the World Anonymous.

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Speaker 1: I think that given the nature of the fact that the therapist is pregnant and trying to make decisions based on herself and keeping yourself healthy during the pregnancy, that that just gives her such a thing to lean on

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Speaker 1: if she is willing to share about the pregnancy, I don't know how far along in the pregnancy we are, and so if it's too early, you might make the exception and say, you know this No, isn't someone in my very inner circle. But given what I'm going to ask them to do, I feel I should or I feel comfortable giving this explanation.

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Speaker 1: I think you you ask, and you offer what you're willing to do during the period that there's any question.

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Speaker 1: I also think Call your doctor and talk to your doctor about it. Make sure it really is a risk. Um, and that's always a good thing to from an etiquette standpoint, I just think try and be calm. When you do make the offer, you might even pick up the phone and call rather than rather than do it via email. Sometimes if you, I mean, obviously, this is a therapist. They know their client well. They might know that actually, an email would be better because it gives the person time

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Speaker 1: to absorb, read, ask questions, think of questions to ask that kind of stuff. So lean into your best skills, knowing the person that you're dealing with. But also, you know, I think this this would be a case where I

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Speaker 1: I can't speak on behalf of the client, but as a therapy client, I would say if my therapist said something like this to me, I'd be like

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Speaker 1: I would totally appreciate a Skype call. Thank you so much. Thank you. I would appreciate setting that up. Thanks for offering that. Like you know what I mean? It would be you came to me with a solution for something you're worried about. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I like all of that. I like setting yourself up with some information. Talk to a doctor, Talk to a health professional. Prepare yourself emotionally for that discussion. Think about how much you're comfortable sharing about your own situation, because that can be a really good entree into a discussion that tells someone that you're really engaged.

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Speaker 2: I also like your idea of thinking about that

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Speaker 2: type of communication.

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Speaker 2: I like the

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Speaker 2: explicit offer of ways to continue to stay connected so that someone knows that it's not that you're trying to avoid them, their problems, their situations, that you want to work with them. You want to find a solution. This is just something you're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: Having loved being in therapy for years and years and years. Um, there's always that time when something's going on and your therapist has a vacation planned, and you're like, no don't go. I need you now. And, um, if this person is someone who has some, you know, struggles going on, uh then I could I could see such relief in being offered some kind of alternative than just canceling the session like there were definitely times it was. Just please don't cancel the session. Please don't just please, like, give me some way of talking to you because you're just so helpful in my life right now. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is such a topical question. I'm about to give such an old reference.

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Speaker 2: And I'm guessing this is coronavirus, even though it hasn't been explicitly stated in this question. But it seems like it's about a very topical issue right now. But the way you describe the therapist relationship,

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Speaker 2: what about Bob? Just came to my mind

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Speaker 1: totally, totally, totally

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Speaker 2: as far as the etiquette advice. And it would work for Bill Murray. And I hope it can work in this much less humorous situation is that it is okay to set boundaries in fact, is an important thing to be able to do

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Speaker 2: both in your personal and professional lives, and this is a professional relationship, so

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Speaker 2: I would keep my explanations about those boundaries

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Speaker 2: in a slightly more formal

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Speaker 2: framework. And you establish that with tone clarity of language, Um, deciding ahead of time, how much personal information you're going to share. This is a professional relationship, and you want to keep this whole discussion really squarely in that hole

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Speaker 2: framework.

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Speaker 2: But it is important. It's important that you're able to do it to maintain those relationships both personally and professionally. So

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Speaker 2: this answer is also about permission to do that and really do that in a way that makes it possible for you to continue the relationship. Or you're in this case, your friend, to continue the relationship

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Speaker 2: anonymous. We hope this advice helps and that it reaches you in time to help your friend.

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Speaker 2: We cannot keep all germs from entering our bodies,

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Speaker 2: But wise old nature has placed within US natural forces capable of fighting the invading armies of disease.

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Speaker 2: Every step we take to prevent the spread of disease means increased happiness and greater living efficiency for all of us.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Not Religious but respectful.

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon, 80 team. I've been listening to the awesome etiquette podcast for a few months now, and I'm really enjoying it. I have a question that relates to weddings, funerals and other religious services that may be attended by those that do not share the same faith.

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Speaker 1: I would like to be polite when attending these services but have no religious experience to draw upon. I was raised diagnostic.

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Speaker 1: My go to for years was to just stand, sit and kneel, as the rest do. But I do not sing, pray or participate in communion.

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Speaker 1: I was recently taken aback during a recent service when I was unexpectedly hugged by strangers during the service, I found it uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: How much should I participate to be considered polite during religious services?

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Speaker 1: Thank you ever so much, Molly.

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Speaker 1: This brings up so many good points.

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Speaker 2: Molly, this is such a good question. There is so much cross cultural navigation going on here. It reminds me a lot of good questions about international etiquette, how you prepare yourself to interact in situations where there are very specific manners, but you might not be familiar with them,

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Speaker 2: and the stakes are a little higher. There is a

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Speaker 2: a certain I don't even wanna call it formality, but heightened sense of propriety and

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Speaker 2: attention paid to how people are behaving.

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Speaker 1: I think also with that, there's the sense that you don't want to over participate to the point that you are then actually participating in a religion that you aren't practicing. So, for instance, Molly's referencing she doesn't go take communion. You know, that's something you're supposed to go through

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Speaker 1: a process

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Speaker 1: religious, right? Is that what you call it? Ritual. Thank you. That's something that you that you actually go through, kind of at a certain age and a certain time in your, um, in your path when it comes to Catholicism, for instance, and so it's it's important to right. It's hard to know if you don't know what is something that you really shouldn't participate in in something that you might be asked to participate in but would like to decline participation in That's and that's hard like that. There's a There's a moment in Catholic services where this peace be with you and oftentimes during a weekly service throughout the year, that's a handshake. But at the holidays, that's often a hug,

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Speaker 1: and you know there are other religions to where that can happen and you don't know, like, would it be rude to say no? But no, I don't really want to hug. Can I stick a hand out for a shake instead?

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Speaker 1: It's very complex, so

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Speaker 2: first step do a little bit of work ahead of time. Prepare yourself going into these situations, and some of those answers might be as simple as a Google search away.

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Speaker 2: But I would also strongly recommend talking to the point of contact. So if there's a particular person that's invited you to come with them or

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Speaker 2: if it's something like a funeral, think about calling ahead to the venue, asking if there's someone there you could talk to about what to expect. Identify yourself as someone who is not as familiar with the faith tradition or with the particular type of service that you'll be attending or event or whatever it is

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Speaker 2: and ask and then really be prepared to listen and hear what it is they're saying. Have a little list of questions, things like, What is it appropriate for me to wear?

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Speaker 2: What can I expect to happen over the course of the service? Are there any, um, major things that I should be aware of. There are some services where it would be really radically inappropriate to touch anyone or where you're going to want to cover your head or remove your shoes, and

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Speaker 2: people will be ready to tell you these things. It won't be the first time they've dealt with them as a hosting organization or location.

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Speaker 1: Also, be prepared for the occasional time when you will be asked to more be an observer rather than an included participant.

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Speaker 1: There may be those times where it said, you know, just kind of come, but observe, don't lean in too much And there's places where that can be respected, too, even though it can feel awkward to get that message delivered to you. It doesn't mean you're not welcome.

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Speaker 2: I really like how you're thinking about this. To me,

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Speaker 2: it says that you're going to do well. The fact that you're paying attention that you're thinking about it is the best possible indication that you're going to engage in these new situations well,

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Speaker 2: and I also just want to finish by applauding you for trying new things and for exposing yourself to all of these different situations. They are so rich

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Speaker 2: Molly, Thank you for the question that ever happens. I want to be ready. I want to be ready physically and mentally,

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Speaker 2: morally and spiritually. How about you?

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Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Electric Car Etiquette. Dan, you should read this one. Did you write

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Speaker 2: it? I didn't.

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Speaker 1: But I love it.

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Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Daniel. I'm in the process of buying my first plug in hybrid and thinking about how to charge it.

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping you can help me understand what the etiquette is around using plug in electric vehicle public charging stations.

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Speaker 2: None of the public stations I have so far observed post information about whether one treats the space as a regular parking spot, for however long you need it versus any requirement to move the car once it is completely charged. In some cases,

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Speaker 2: this time is self limiting when the charger is located in a metered lot. But in free parking locations, there is no such incentive.

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Speaker 2: My feeling is that when possible and TV owner should move their car once it is completed charging. But in practice, I am not sure that works. Some network charge stations will notify the owner via an app when the vehicle is charged. Others, not

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Speaker 2: a driver, may want to spend more time parked and otherwise occupied, for example, a movie class or other event than the time charging takes.

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Speaker 2: If the parking location is popular, leaving the charge station to find a normal spot may be difficult.

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Speaker 2: I welcome your thoughts on this still developing situation. Thanks, Betty. A new TV owner,

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Speaker 1: Benny. Thanks so much for writing in with this question. These are these are you talk about changing times. You talk about changing etiquette. This is one of the newest things happening,

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Speaker 1: first of all, much like the issue with airline seats and reclining, which has been so recently popular in the media.

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Speaker 1: This is an issue that is developing, and the people who designate that spot and what it is for, I think, should be setting the expectation about what should be happening in that spot. I think that would be helpful at this point in time. So if you pull up to the TV station and there's a little sign that says

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Speaker 1: please, you know, use the app for the timer that and then come and remove your car or

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Speaker 1: feel free to use the spot for as long as you need to. You know, we have five TV spots available, whatever it is, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Only used for charging

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Speaker 1: exactly whatever it is. I do think that owners of those spaces should be helping to direct people is to the best way to use them when that doesn't happen, which is the situation many E V owners find themselves in. Now

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Speaker 1: the questions that you're asking are really delicious questions. They're the perfect ones, and they show that you can't just have one rule for everything. It can't just be removed as soon as you, you know, are done charging. Although that is kind of the basic role. Like that is

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Speaker 1: the thing that lets the most TV users recharge the fastest. And that is the purpose of this spot.

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Speaker 1: But I like the question of what if you're in an area where that's going on, What if you're out to dinner and charging the spot? Does this mean that some of the etiquette is you just don't recharge when you go to something that's going to take longer than the recharge will like? Maybe that's not the time to park your car in a recharge spot.

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Speaker 1: It's a fascinating question.

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Speaker 1: I will e v owner dissect this for

00:26:24

Speaker 2: us. I'm over here fist pumping and sort of air high fiving Lizzie because I couldn't agree anymore about how intelligent these questions are and the way you're building the scenario. I also loved Lizzie poses Baseline that, really, these spots are best used for charging cars, and it's so convenient when you're needing a charge to be able to find

00:26:47

Speaker 2: a spot with an open charge station. And

00:26:50

Speaker 2: having said that, there is this game where it's not a perfect system, and

00:26:56

Speaker 2: you have to know the rules to know when and how to break them. So if you've got in your mind that idea that this is a shared resource and you want to do your best to make it available for the most people possible, and you adjust your decision making in accordance with that baseline understanding, you're going to be in pretty good shape.

00:27:12

Speaker 2: If you show up in your 95% charge and you know you have a full afternoon of shopping, probably not the best time to plug in to get that 5%. 2% left, and that's going to happen in 15 minutes and then spend the entire afternoon

00:27:26

Speaker 2: at the same time. If you're getting kind of low. If you're talking 20% 30% and it's gonna take an hour and a half in the movies two hours, I think you might go for it. So you start to make intelligent decisions based on that baseline. But it's it's not a rock solid rule where someone's gonna walk by chalk. You're tiring.

00:27:43

Speaker 2: Get your car towed 10 minutes after the charging is done.

00:27:46

Speaker 1: And I think what's going to get really interesting with this in terms of just simple

00:27:52

Speaker 1: internal monologue, frustration, etiquette, stress that we deal with are going to be those moments where you go into the store and you do have, let's say, a 30% charge on your vehicle. So you really do want to charge it up at least to even get you to 75. Maybe that's how you need to get home and get through the rest of your day,

00:28:10

Speaker 1: and your trip into the store that you're at that has the parking the TV station at it, you know it takes 15 minutes, but the charge is going to take a little longer, or vice versa.

00:28:24

Speaker 1: The charge ends. You know, in the 20 minutes that you're in the super, you're in the store for half an hour, and so the car is just sitting. There

00:28:31

Speaker 1: was recently talking with a reporter from the Atlantic about the idea of late arrivals and grace periods.

00:28:38

Speaker 1: And so I'm going to be really curious to see what the grace period is around e v charging and and also whether or not you know, when someone's vehicle is fully charged up and can tell that it's just been sitting there for half an hour for 20 minutes or for five minutes and what's going to start to get people feeling aggrieved? There's going to be a pendulum that swings, and we're gonna find

00:28:58

Speaker 1: where it is. But we don't have that answer yet because it's still so new.

00:29:01

Speaker 2: There was definitely another piece of advice that I was hoping to get to that you started to touch on, which is I think a lot of it has to do with managing your own reactions to what you find If you arrive and the three spots are taken, and it looks like two of them are completely done charging before that little anger voices going off in your head. And we've had a few etiquette questions about parking lots that didn't have anything to do with charging. So these are

00:29:27

Speaker 2: etiquette. Intense etiquette, fraud situations. Before you surrender to that angry, voice judgmental voice that you remind yourself, it could be you on the other end of that charge in court at some point in the very near future that we give each other the latitude in space, and we understand that

00:29:44

Speaker 2: it's going to require a little something from all of us. And in the spirit of that, I had a final

00:29:48

Speaker 2: piece of advice that I wanted to offer because I

00:29:50

Speaker 2: wrestle with this. I won't say on a daily basis. But at least once a week

00:29:55

Speaker 2: in the downtown garage in Burlington, there is one charging spot, and oftentimes that garage is a difficult place to find, a place to park. If I don't need to charge, can I just pull in and it's empty and it's just waiting for me, and I just want to slide in there.

00:30:10

Speaker 2: Any amount of charging and just use that spot because it's so

00:30:14

Speaker 1: convenient.

00:30:15

Speaker 2: Definitely in the I remind myself that I would need to go find a parking space if I wasn't and that it's a possible thing to do and that those spaces really are best used for people that are going to be charging. So

00:30:29

Speaker 2: the third bullet question was, if the parking location is popular,

00:30:33

Speaker 2: should I leave the charge station? If I'm charged already, if I'm going to be there for a long time and I say, challenge yourself, maybe give it a shot, do it. Maybe do it. Maybe vacate that spot for someone else who is really going to need it. And under two,

00:30:46

Speaker 2: take that

00:30:47

Speaker 1: difficult. Maybe. I think you're saying, do it. I think you're saying go for it like embrace it, embrace

00:30:53

Speaker 2: it if you can. And it's such a pain to say I'm going to go out and find a parking place in this difficult place to find a parking space. But

00:31:01

Speaker 2: it really is. It's one of those random acts of kindness that may never go rewarded but might make you feel really good. It might make you feel like a really responsible community member in that new world of electric vehicles.

00:31:12

Speaker 1: Betty, thanks so much for the question and enjoy your new car.

00:31:16

Speaker 2: So that's the real story of the cool hot rod,

00:31:20

Speaker 2: the one time hazard that has

00:31:21

Speaker 1: become a brand

00:31:22

Speaker 2: new, safe,

00:31:24

Speaker 2: progressive American hobby.

00:31:28

Speaker 2: Mhm.

00:31:39

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute

00:31:59

Speaker 1: and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:32:10

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:32:15

Speaker 2: if you love awesome etiquette, consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air

00:32:30

Speaker 1: This week. We have a really fun, extra piece of bonus content for the awesome etiquette patreon site, and we are doing something really special. We're opening it up for all of our listeners to take a listen to. So jump on over to Patreon and listen to a little three question interview that our assistant, Bridget Dowd put together. She asked Dan and I some non etiquette questions, and we hope you like our answers.

00:32:54

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover. And today we hear from D on basically every thank you note segment that has occurred. The way that I motivate myself to write thank you notes, is to not deposit a check or put cash in my wallet until have written the thank you note.

00:33:12

Speaker 1: I generally received these gifts in the mail, so I keep the envelope with the card and gift

00:33:17

Speaker 1: until I write out my note, which has the added benefit of keeping the return address handy.

00:33:23

Speaker 1: This would totally work with more physical gifts, such as not taking tags off of clothes or opening packaging until a thank you note has been sent. I hope this helps others. D

00:33:34

Speaker 2: We always love a little thank you know, feedback on awesome etiquette.

00:33:38

Speaker 1: Anything to encourage getting them out the door and done well.

00:33:41

Speaker 2: I like the tip.

00:33:43

Speaker 1: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d That's 8028585463

00:33:57

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:34:02

Speaker 2: it's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette. And today we're going to continue with our series on the top 10 most searched content on the Emily post dot com website, and we are up to our number five most searched article, and that is the formal place setting,

00:34:20

Speaker 2: not a big surprise to find it so close to the top of the list.

00:34:25

Speaker 2: The fundamentals for the formal place setting are so very similar to the fundamentals for the basic and the informal place setting. The core concepts remain the same. The location of the forks on the left hand side of the play, the knives and the spoons coming in that order on the right hand side, the bread blade on the left, the drinks on the right.

00:34:47

Speaker 2: These are all going to stay remarkably consistent no matter what level of formality you're setting the table for, or what your dining expectation is.

00:34:56

Speaker 1: Thank goodness for that, too, because so does it make it so easy? When you find yourself unexpectedly informal dining situation that you've never been in before, there are settings I haven't seen. It's going to happen one day. It's going to be in front of me. And to have that commonality between most settings is a real comfort to know.

00:35:15

Speaker 2: And what are we talking about with really formal dining? Well, sometimes it's about

00:35:19

Speaker 2: the number of stars on the restaurant, and people are measuring the location of the silverware in relation to the edge of the table and the plate, and the

00:35:29

Speaker 2: plush of the carpet is a certain

00:35:30

Speaker 1: height. Sometimes

00:35:33

Speaker 2: we're talking about a number of courses. Sometimes we're talking about, oh, a meal where you're going to be presented seven or nine or more

00:35:41

Speaker 2: waves of food coming to the table. Maybe it's the number of servers, the possibility of two servers attending to every person sitting at the table dining and then

00:35:49

Speaker 2: someone managing the table.

00:35:52

Speaker 2: A formal dining experience can be so

00:35:55

Speaker 1: many things,

00:35:56

Speaker 2: so many things and so incredible can be such a treat. If you haven't had an opportunity to do that kind of a dining experience, I say Go for it. Give it a try. And don't let something like nervousness about navigating the place, setting be the barrier to entry into that kind of a

00:36:12

Speaker 2: fun experience.

00:36:14

Speaker 2: So the big question that people have is what utensil do I use with which course? And

00:36:20

Speaker 2: the answer is really simple, that you're going to work your way from the outside of the place, setting towards the center in the same way you would with a four course meal. If you're presented with a seven course meal

00:36:29

Speaker 2: and this works whether you're navigating the place setting in front of you are thinking about setting your own dining room table for a meal with more courses. As you work from the outside of the place setting in, you're going to use the utensil for the course that's presented at the end of that course, it's most likely going to be cleared with that course. So you're talking about

00:36:49

Speaker 2: just a consistent working with the

00:36:51

Speaker 2: utensil that's presented to you. It's the easiest to grab.

00:36:55

Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say It's for this doubt. It's easiest to grab. There's no like, if I move this one, will the others move?

00:37:01

Speaker 2: If there's going to be escargot and special clamp is required to hold your snails,

00:37:07

Speaker 2: they'll bring it out for you. Or it will be presented as the dishes presented in a way that it will be obvious that that's what it's for.

00:37:15

Speaker 2: One of my little tips about really formal dining is don't ever be scared to talk to the person who's managing the table. In some ways, that's what they're there for. Oftentimes they'll be describing the food as it's presented, and

00:37:26

Speaker 2: they're the perfect person to say I haven't ever done this. Exactly. How do you use this? Or how would you recommend eating this if you don't want to ask specifically how to use or hold a particular utensil,

00:37:37

Speaker 1: and if it's really not the appropriate place or you feel too self conscious to ask, Watch what everyone else does.

00:37:44

Speaker 1: That's the big one for me, as I always just watch what everyone else is doing. And I try to just delicately do that as well.

00:37:51

Speaker 1: When it comes to these formal situations. I mean, you do you eat from the outside in, But the typical order is usually that we're dealing with an appetizer, a first course, a fish course, an entree and a salad. Sometimes there's a soup course that's in there as well. Sometimes you might even get things like those palate cleansing courses, mint ice cream or something like that.

00:38:11

Speaker 1: Those are the kinds of things that could show up, but for the most part it's actually not that unfamiliar from a basic appetizer entree dessert. There's just a couple more added in in between.

00:38:25

Speaker 2: Sometimes you'll see

00:38:28

Speaker 2: more glasses set on the table as well, and the same logic is going to apply to the setting of glasses or stemware, as applies to the utensils that you're going to use to eat your food. So you're gonna work your way from the outside in a pretty common configuration. Here is some sort of champagne flute for a little pre meal,

00:38:48

Speaker 2: the toast or sip,

00:38:49

Speaker 2: and then wine glasses that are appropriate for the type of wine that will be served with each successive course again arranged from out in and outside in format with the water glass on the inside. Most likely the other

00:39:03

Speaker 2: slight difference that you might encounter in the place setting at a really formal meal versa. More informal meal is that oftentimes there's a charger on the table when the meal begins. For those

00:39:13

Speaker 1: that don't know what's a charger,

00:39:14

Speaker 2: so a charger just looks like a big

00:39:16

Speaker 1: plates. All it is is a

00:39:17

Speaker 2: big plate, and the formal dining concept that the Charger is meant to fulfill is that you never left the space in front of a guest empty at the table. So it was just something to occupy that space when people sat down.

00:39:30

Speaker 1: You give them an empty plate, you know, because that just makes so much sense.

00:39:34

Speaker 2: Sometimes we just do things

00:39:38

Speaker 2: often times in the middle of that plate will be a napkin. Sometimes it'll be somewhere else, but often times it will be on that charger.

00:39:46

Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about what you do with the Chargers. Sometimes early courses are set right on it. Sometimes it's clear as the initial courses arrive, as the food that's being presented is on bigger and bigger plates, that charger will probably disappear as those larger plate courses start to arrive.

00:40:02

Speaker 2: Something else that comes up with the really formal place setting is the rule of three.

00:40:06

Speaker 2: And we have our great great grandmother, Emily Post, to thank for the rule of three. When you

00:40:12

Speaker 1: mean she just made it

00:40:13

Speaker 2: up, she invented

00:40:15

Speaker 1: this one is just straight up. I'm declaring a rule. This is going to happen. This is for simplicity sake.

00:40:21

Speaker 2: Yes,

00:40:23

Speaker 2: go M.

00:40:24

Speaker 2: So at the turn of the century, this is 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds. The table setting was getting just more and more ridiculously elaborate. I was going to say baroque, but yes, ridiculous would be another way to describe

00:40:37

Speaker 1: it. Unnecessary

00:40:38

Speaker 2: people were setting the table with utensils for every course, and the

00:40:43

Speaker 2: place in front of you would extend like like wings in both directions. You can

00:40:48

Speaker 1: fly away with your civil,

00:40:50

Speaker 2: and Emily just thought it was preposterous and said, You know what? No more than three of any type of utensils should be set on the table no matter what you're going to be serving.

00:40:59

Speaker 1: But what about the fish fork? Because I'm thinking we have appetizer. We have entree. We have dessert. Or maybe we have first, you know, appetizer first course

00:41:10

Speaker 1: entree course. And then this fish fork makes for

00:41:15

Speaker 2: well, people listen to Emily and they said, Okay, we'll only set three forks on the left hand side of the plate, but we'll call that Oyster Forks a specialty utensil, and we'll sneak it over on the right

00:41:27

Speaker 1: side. It goes

00:41:28

Speaker 2: on the rest. So that's why you sometimes see something that looks like a fork over on the right side. Someone's trying to observe the rule of three, but also get a utensil that you might need onto the table. It's

00:41:38

Speaker 1: also typically a fork that you would naturally pick up with your right hand for that course to begin anyway. You know what I mean. It's like you're not typically using a knife with it, ever so it works out.

00:41:49

Speaker 2: Yeah, if you needed more standard forks than the three that are set on the table, they will be brought out with the course that requires them. So again, no need to count times. Or

00:42:00

Speaker 2: remember little nursery rhymes about what different forks look like. Thank you, Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman for confusing people,

00:42:07

Speaker 2: you just continue that process of working your way from the outside in unless a specialty utensil is presented.

00:42:13

Speaker 1: And this is why, when I'm looking at on our website the

00:42:17

Speaker 1: diagram of the formal place setting that we have, you don't see the dessert fork and spoon at the top of the place setting because that would indeed make four out throughout the whole meal.

00:42:28

Speaker 1: And so that ends up being brought out at the end of the meal when you need it and everything else is cleared away as well. So it's almost like there's a resetting for dessert, and I think that's a that's a distinctive difference in the table setting. When we go to that most formal level,

00:42:43

Speaker 2: I would be remiss if I didn't mention before we wrapped up our discussion about some of the special things about a really formal place setting. If I didn't mention place cards that often

00:42:57

Speaker 2: times it's the whole aesthetic of the table that really starts to establish the level of formality and whether that's candles, whether that's a centerpiece, whether that's a runner, that's part of your whole presentation. Those place cards,

00:43:11

Speaker 1: litter and confetti on my tables,

00:43:14

Speaker 1: but no place cards. You are right, the place cards themselves, kind of.

00:43:17

Speaker 1: They define that space. Who's going to sit there? There's a certain little like flourish to them. A personal touch they do bring a lot of personality to the table

00:43:28

Speaker 1: is now the time where I shamelessly mentioned that we have some in the Emily Post guarding collection. Salazar could do that. Salazar dot com. Okay, but this is This is great. This is a wonderful dive into an experience that not many of us get to have very often in life. I mean, I can probably count on one hand the number of times probably found on, like, three fingers, the number of times that I've actually experienced,

00:43:50

Speaker 1: and a really elaborate, highly formalized dining situation. And it does feel good to have the confidence both to attempt at setting that situation for my guests, as well as to navigate it when I find myself in it.

00:44:04

Speaker 2: Happy dining, everyone. I hope you find something adventurous out there to give a try and definitely come back next week for our fourth most searched topic on the Emily Post website. And that would be our entire guy. No

00:44:18

Speaker 1: surprise there.

00:44:19

Speaker 2: The rules are simple and are based on your hostesses consideration for you.

00:44:25

Speaker 2: Put your napkin in your lap quietly. Fancy flourishes are disturbing to those around you.

00:44:31

Speaker 2: No need to be uneasy about a long line of silverware. The first piece you use is placed on the outside, making it easy for you to pick up without spoiling the place setting automatically. The next piece you use is on the outside, making it easy to be sure of using the right piece for each course as it is served.

00:44:51

Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world, and that can come in so many forms. And today we hear from a leaks.

00:45:02

Speaker 1: Hello, Lizzie and Dan. I hope this email finds you well. I am passing on a wonderful experience that happened to me recently when I was on a solo trip to Southern California. I was sitting on the rooftop of a wonderful beachside restaurant in La Hoya. I had been sitting at the bar enjoying the gorgeous weather and delicious food. And the couple next to me struck up a brief conversation

00:45:24

Speaker 1: where I learned they lived in the area and that we all found ragdoll cats to be adorable. Among other things,

00:45:33

Speaker 1: they soon left after and my waiter came up to me and said, The couple sitting next to you just took care of your entire bill.

00:45:40

Speaker 1: I was so pleasantly surprised and grateful for the kind hospitality gesture from these two strangers. I definitely plan on paying it forward the next time I find myself talking to a visitor of my hometown. Thank you very much for everything that you do.

00:45:55

Speaker 2: Alex, Thank you so much for passing this on. You just gave me an idea of an aspirational idea. It would be so nice to do that for someone visiting

00:46:04

Speaker 2: Vermont.

00:46:05

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:46:06

Speaker 2: yeah,

00:46:07

Speaker 1: yeah.

00:46:09

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening

00:46:11

Speaker 2: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and thank you to everyone who supports us on patreon.

00:46:16

Speaker 2: Please connect with us and share this show with friends, family and coworkers on social media. Or however you like to share awesome etiquette.

00:46:23

Speaker 1: You can send us questions, feedback and salutes by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post com by phone. Leave us a voice message or text at 802858 k i n d That's 8028585463

00:46:37

Speaker 1: on Twitter. We are at Emily Post Inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette as well as the Emily

00:46:45

Speaker 2: Post Institute.

00:46:46

Speaker 2: Please do consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about that by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. And this is the week to give it a look because you will find that special interview with Lizzie and me. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. And please consider leaving us a review. It does help with our podcast ranking which helps new people find awesome etiquette.

00:47:09

Speaker 1: Our show is edited by Chris Al Routine and Assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks, Kris and

00:47:14

Speaker 2: Brigitte

00:47:17

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:47:18

Speaker 2: yeah,

00:47:19

Speaker 2: yeah,

00:47:21

Speaker 2: yeah,

00:47:23

Speaker 2: yeah