Episode 288 - Take Care

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social goodness. See, that's old

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Speaker 2: fashioned.

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Speaker 1: Watch how busy post. And they're supposed to act

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Speaker 2: as host and hostess.

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Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means

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Speaker 2: showing respect,

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Speaker 1: thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette,

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, we take your questions on keeping solicitors away, guests asking for food, wanting to eat alone and e payment etiquette

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Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette. Sustaining members are questions about rude reactions to lifestyle choices,

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Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript segment on number four in our most searched topics on our website, the entire guide Part two

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Speaker 1: All that coming up

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Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont Public Radio and is proud to be produced in Burlington, Vermont, by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Lizzie Post and I'm Dan Post sending,

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Speaker 2: and it's probably pretty appropriate if we take a moment to talk about social distancing in the age of coronavirus because it is, it is actually appropriate.

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Speaker 1: Not only appropriate, I would say important moment.

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Speaker 2: It is important, and it's awkward as heck. I listened to a report today with someone from Italy where they've increased the measures of trying to contain the virus, and it was interesting listening to people talk about doing things like

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Speaker 2: creating more space in the lines, the cues that they were standing in so you'd see people who were spaced like, you know, 3 ft apart from each other, as opposed to, you know, right up next to each other and how people would miss the line and just walk straight into a restaurant or cafe or something.

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Speaker 2: Not realizing that there's a whole line of people standing around the line didn't look like they

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Speaker 1: were used to seeing a

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Speaker 2: line. But what I loved was the reaction she described of when she reached out to tell the person. Excuse me, there's actually a line. We're just standing far apart for social distancing, the person said. Oh my gosh, of course, it didn't even look like a line and then got in line 3 ft behind the other person. And that, to me, was just such a wonderful way to react to what I think feels

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Speaker 2: awkward as a social call out, You know what I mean? But there's so many moments like that that I think we're just gonna have to get really used to right now.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. You've already used the term social distancing a couple of times.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it for

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Speaker 1: us. We started to get a volume of media requests beginning last week and again, we're recording this on the Tuesday before the show will air. So things may have changed. This might be something that's been very concretely defined in the public sphere by the time this podcast lands.

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Speaker 1: But people are still definitely trying to figure out what is meant by this term social distancing. It's a public health term that's been introduced by

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Speaker 1: some of the agencies and organizations that are really interested in combating coronavirus or covid. 19 and social distancing, I think, is often interpreted as meaning don't gather in large groups, and that is definitely one aspect of it. But there are so many components to social distancing that involved

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Speaker 1: limiting the direct contact we have with other people, even when we're physically present with them, spending time with them or

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Speaker 1: passing them in the street or public places,

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Speaker 2: so it might mean things like, rather than saying hello with a hug or a handshake, that it's just a bright smile and a friendly greeting or a little wave, and that you really forgo that moment of actual body to body contact.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it may also look like a group of people talking together, but much further spaced out than you would normally see a small group of people talking together. In fact, I'm even laughing because Dan and I at our little desk. We are only a foot and a half away from each other, and I have a venture to guess that in the future we might put the longer table between us.

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Speaker 2: But it does look like that. It looks like more space between people. It looks like people saying things like, Oh, actually, I'm practicing social distancing. When they see a friend go in for a hug,

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Speaker 2: it might mean someone on the street. They start coughing as they're approaching you, and you actually move across the street or a 6 ft distance away from them. And not to be rude, not to make them feel like they are diseased, but because it's a safety measure in a precaution that people are choosing to take right now.

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Speaker 2: And those are the kinds of things you might start seeing and experiencing.

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Speaker 1: You just said another word that I think is going to be key to all of our adapting and figuring out what this is going to look like. And that's the idea of safety. And that doesn't just mean personal safety. That means the safety of everyone, our public safety, our public health. And

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Speaker 1: we have said on this show for a long, long time that

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Speaker 1: safety supersedes etiquette, that you don't want to proceed with something that's really not safe because it feels awkward. A classic example. Being someone who had too much to drink at your dinner party, who wants to drive home? It's

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Speaker 1: It's important and up to you to get over the social awkwardness and address that situation for everyone's safety. And I like in this moment to that moment a little bit in that

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Speaker 1: it's okay to adjust and adapt some of our social expectations

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Speaker 1: in an environment where we're doing that,

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Speaker 1: and this is very much in the spirit of this show. I think it's important to think about honoring and respecting human relationships while we're doing that.

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Speaker 1: So if you're foregoing that handshake, if you're bowing slightly touching feet, putting your hand on your heart, whatever alternative version you choose, it's important to make eye contact to honor. Greetings and parting was by saying explicitly the things

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Speaker 1: that were intended to be communicated by that handshake. So it's been such a pleasure to see you. I'm so glad we were able to get together. I look forward to seeing you again. I feel honored parting someone's company if there

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Speaker 1: talking to me and addressing me like if

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Speaker 2: they take that time, if they put that humanness into it, you know it makes such a difference and it might seem over the top.

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Speaker 2: But really, when you don't have the action, it's amazing how quickly you'll default to the words. Think about it when you are sick and maybe your kid comes home from school, you know, and you're not going to give him a hug. But you tell them all the picture you drew is so beautiful. Mommy loves it so much. I'm guessing here, but you know I can fix your parents doing what they can,

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Speaker 2: but things like that

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Speaker 1: until you're able to use hand sanitizer and wash or whatever. Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Exactly What I also wanted to make is this connection between the idea of consideration, respect and honesty and social distancing, and that it truly does fall in line with C. R. H and our world of etiquette

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Speaker 2: that, to be considerate of others, is to recognize that you don't know the people around you. You don't know if they have suppressed immune systems. If they live with someone who is an elderly person, if they work at a facility you don't know.

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Speaker 2: And so you give consideration. And if someone is trying to practice social distancing, or if you're noticing

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Speaker 2: that more and more people around you are doing that, you do try to respect that and be considerate of that and not try to make people uncomfortable or you try to ask questions and do things so that you can respect other people. And that's the second word than that we get to is. Respect

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Speaker 2: is that we have to respect that we are in different places with this,

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Speaker 2: and you really do want to respect the fact that safety is at stake and that for some, that safety is a bigger risk than others. Um, it's really easy when you're someone who barely ever gets the flu to think that this is a big deal, but it is a big deal. You know, I have a nice being born very soon, and I'm very concerned about making sure that the environment she and her mother are in our very

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Speaker 2: clean and safe environments and that I respect their wishes for how they are trying to create that environment for themselves. So we get to honesty. And that's the one where I think we have to honestly own the fact that this is a reality for us right now

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Speaker 2: that this isn't something only happening in distant places.

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Speaker 2: Um, you know, in our own little state, we have our first confirmed case, and so it's it's it is a reality, and we want to respect that, and

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Speaker 2: honesty allows us to do that, and we can always use if we go to those Five steps are fifth step of refinement to wash our hands, to use hand sanitizer to not touch our faces, keep our hands below our shoulders, too.

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Speaker 2: Use our polite tones. We can use wonderful refinement to make it all. OK,

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Speaker 1: It's so funny to me and I shouldn't say funny, but it's so interesting to me how some of those most traditional eh tickets have survived for generations. The idea of not rubbing your eyes, your nose, your mouth, your ears when you're interacting with other people as a common courtesy that has

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Speaker 1: been around since Emily's day 100 years ago and probably before that

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Speaker 2: did you don't cough on others that you don't like spit on places where they're going to put their hands or things like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is nice that some of those linchpin etiquette do still matter are still relevant, in fact, are maybe more important now than they've ever been

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Speaker 2: and come from a place of health and safety.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we want to encourage everyone to check with places like the CDC, the World Health Organization and the National Institute of Health

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Speaker 1: for basic guidelines and to follow those guidelines and the recommendations of those public health organizations. One other very traditional etiquette thought I wanted to bring up as part of today's show introduction,

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Speaker 2: very long introduction

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Speaker 1: is an acknowledgement that this is a time when people are going to feel stressed. There's going to be a certain amount of anxiety, even fear,

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Speaker 1: that people are going to reckon with and wrestle with and deal with in different ways and to different degrees. And being emotionally prepared for that, I think, is an important part of

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Speaker 1: interacting intelligently and being socially aware in the world that we're all operating in right now and probably will be for a little while into the future.

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Speaker 2: With that shall we get to some etiquette questions?

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d.

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Speaker 2: That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette

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Speaker 2: with your social media post. So we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 2: Mhm.

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Speaker 2: Mm.

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Speaker 1: Mhm.

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Speaker 1: Our first question this week is about silencing solicitors. I am

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Speaker 2: surprised it's taken us this long to get to this question. I mean, we sort of have addressed in other ways, but

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Speaker 1: it's a new twist for us.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Love your podcast. I'm a new homeowner and have a question about the etiquette around unwanted solicitors. At my door,

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Speaker 1: I find in my town home community I am frequently getting my door knocked on and the doorbell rung at inconvenient times for things I'm not at all interested in, such as a free in quotation marks, roof inspection or switching TV providers.

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Speaker 1: I have a newly rescued dog at home who also barks incessantly at the door. When someone is there, I am pregnant and will have a new small, sleepy addition to our home Very soon.

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Speaker 1: I'm considering putting a small sign on my front door that says, No solicitors, please. Or maybe when the baby comes, no solicitors, please baby sleeping.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be that grumpy neighbor, though, when I do answer the door after sometimes 123 minutes of knocking, how can I politely ask them to leave and say I'm not interested?

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Speaker 1: Or will the sign do the trick.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for your help. Sincerely, I hate answering the door in my pajamas.

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Speaker 2: No, this is so frustrating. And I'm sure being far along in pregnancy makes it even more frustrating. You just don't want to get to get cancer

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Speaker 1: again.

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Speaker 2: And then the knocking, the knocking incessantly until someone answers the door. That, to me, is like

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Speaker 2: that's when the person who's making the request of someone, I think is breaking etiquette is that if you don't get that person showing up after the first, like you know, 6200 and 20 so minute to minute two minutes of waiting for them to come to the door, then I think you've got to move on. But maybe I'm not skilled at what people tell you you have to do in order to meet your quotas and things like that. So it's a tough call, but I think the sign is perfect, and I love adding the sleeping baby to it because I think that does kind of paint more of a picture of what someone is dealing with. That's only if you would like to express that to people. I don't think people should feel like they have to paint a picture. I think sometimes people for safety reasons don't want to. So there's that, too.

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Speaker 1: But there's certainly nothing wrong with putting up something like that, particularly if this is something you're dealing with on a somewhat regular basis. Uh, I also just want to say, because I feel like this is really an intrusion, that you have a lot of latitude in terms of how you decide you want to handle this. I think it's entirely an option to not answer your door

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to. And I understand that that knocking can be persistent and can start to feel like a question that's gone unanswered. That nags at you and it just draws you in. Just

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Speaker 2: go. It

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Speaker 1: is okay to exercise your decision to not get off the couch, to not go answer that door to say no, you got this wrong. Maybe there's someone home. Maybe there's a car in the driveway, but I'm sleeping right now. I'm engaged. I'm in the shower, you don't know and you will go away. That's what

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Speaker 2: I wondered about because it's like, OK, so if you took the pregnancy out of it, Maybe you're homesick for the day.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you work a night shift, your hands are full. You're balancing things. You can't get to the door fast enough. You know what I mean? There are so many reasons why you might not answer that door. I don't think we can call it rude to leave a knocking door unanswered. A knocking door, a door knocked unanswered.

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Speaker 2: There we go.

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Speaker 1: It does feel like an unanswered question in some way. And I understand the discomfort that creates because of that. I think it's also okay to answer the door and politely but firmly Tell someone that you don't have the time and you're not going to engage that discussion at that moment.

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Speaker 1: And that can sound

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Speaker 1: as simple as Hello. I'm really busy right now. I don't have time to have a discussion

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Speaker 2: door shut. This is I think that's often the part that you want to give someone enough eye contact and face time to give them respect.

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Speaker 2: But depending on what's going on, depending on how incessant or how they aren't listening to you even as you say what you're saying, which I've had people do sometimes as soon as you start saying anything, they just start talking at you, and that's where you're really breaking down. A lot of the, I think, the goodwill etiquette that makes people have the polite version of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: I would encourage people to to keep their tone as positive and polite as possible. It should not sound quickly like I don't want anybody here shut the door. You know what I mean? But it should say I'm really sorry now, really, Truly isn't a good time. Give them a call

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Speaker 2: chance to respond. If the response doesn't seem like they're respecting your decision, then you say I'm really sorry. As I mentioned, now is not a good time and shut the door.

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Speaker 2: But that gives them the chance to at least say, But maybe you'd want. And you can say, no, I really don't.

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Speaker 1: If they want to schedule a time when they come back, that is a good opportunity. But it's also okay to say no, I'm really not interested, right? Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: And it's okay when they say, you know, could I schedule another time? And you say the part that says No, I'm really not interested

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Speaker 2: to keep that second No really level. It doesn't have to be a mean second. No, because all they were trying to do was give you the opportunity to maybe talk at a time that would be convenient. And let's just not fault people for that part of it. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the question you mentioned that you don't want to be that grumpy neighbor. And I think even the level of self awareness that you show saying

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Speaker 1: I really don't want to be that grumpy neighbor is going to be enough to prevent you from being that grumpy neighbor. There is a big difference between responding to a neighbor that stops by to ask for a cup of sugar with a really Kurt polite but firm go away and

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Speaker 1: someone who is part of a routine of soliciting that you've gotten really used to and

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Speaker 1: isn't a part of the way your community neighborhood functions.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think that you're signed towards no solicitors, please, especially if it says baby sleeping. I don't think that creates the grumpy neighbor image. I think that creates the mom trying to deal with sleeping baby and like, or at this particular juncture, pregnant Mom, You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I hate answering the door in my pajamas. We hope this gives you some avenues for dealing with it.

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Speaker 1: That's good.

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Speaker 1: Shall we

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Speaker 2: all agree that any time one of us is starting to be selfish or rude or inconsiderate,

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Speaker 2: that's to remind us to be courteous. And it

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Speaker 1: works just so everyone takes the right way and doesn't get

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Speaker 2: mad.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is about muffin manners.

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Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan. Thank you for your helpful podcast, which continues to give me good categories for how to be kind and considerate to others.

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Speaker 2: Last night I had some friends over to my house for a study. We have this study every week, and we rarely have food. I had baked banana muffins earlier in the day for my toddler and put them in the fridge so they would stay fresh. When my friends came in, one friend immediately smelled the muffins I had made hours before and asked for some.

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Speaker 2: I did not actually want to give away the muffins because they had taken effort to make, and they were for my toddler, but I figured it would be the generous and loving thing to do to bring them out.

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Speaker 2: Here's where it got a little strange. Her husband told her it was rude to come into someone's house and ask for food. He then play acted asking for ice cream. Since he saw a carton of ice cream in my trash,

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Speaker 2: she said, I could have said no if I wanted.

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Speaker 2: Well, I said nothing. At the time, I definitely did not find the interaction to be polite or consider it. I also did not feel I could say no to her request in good conscience.

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Speaker 2: I have many similar interactions with this couple, and

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Speaker 2: I want to do all I can to preserve this friendship.

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Speaker 2: How can I lessen the difficulty in these interactions that I find rude but my friend thinks are normal? Sincerely, Muffin Baker,

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Speaker 1: who?

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Speaker 1: Oh, muffin Baker, This is

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Speaker 1: a loaded situation. It's kind of packed with etiquette for

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Speaker 2: such a small little interaction.

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Speaker 1: Can I have some muffins? Whoa. Down the rabbit hole. We go. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: seriously, unpack it for

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Speaker 1: us.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I want to very clearly say it's okay to say no to this kind of request. We talk about it all the time on this show, it is okay to say no. It is okay to set boundaries. Just because someone asked for something doesn't mean you are at their mercy and that you have to do it or perform.

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Speaker 1: It is

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Speaker 1: nice to know what would make someone feel good if it's easy to do. If it's not a problem. If it's something you're willing to

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Speaker 1: put a little effort out for, it can be a nice thing. Oh, I just made muffins. Here have one,

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Speaker 2: like if you've got 24 given one away isn't a problem, no big deal.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, if making these muffins takes a lot of effort, it's the one thing that your child eats. You've got your lunch is mapped out for the week, or you would just prefer to keep them for that purpose. It is okay to say, Oh, I know the house the most good. I make those muffins special for my toddler. They're not up for grabs. That is a totally reasonable thing to do. I would also transition. I'd make a little refinement step where I offer some.

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Speaker 1: I'm calling it grown up refreshment, but just the other thing in the refrigerator.

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Speaker 1: But if you're hungry, I could put out some cheese and crackers, or I've got some yummy cinnamon bread. Whatever

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Speaker 1: you do have on hand to share with guests, a glass of water can often times be a default option if you don't have something like that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so wait a second. That's how you would handle it when someone asks you the question directly. But like there's a question before that that proceeds this and that's Can you even ask the question that this guest friend asked.

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Speaker 1: It's borderline. I think it's a question of dosage. If I walk into someone's home and I see something I like. Is it okay to say, Could I have some of that? Sometimes? No. Sometimes, yes, if it's Lizzie Post and that espresso machine is my absolute favorite, and I know it's usually okay or you've just made a yummy lemon cake, and I see that there's a new one on the counter, and I say you made more lemon cake. Could I get a slice?

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Speaker 1: I could probably get away with that. I do think there's a question of dosage, and I also think you have to be prepared for someone to say no, to be willing to accept that as an answer for any reason. And when I say dosage, I mean,

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Speaker 1: how strong is your ask how frequent,

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Speaker 2: How excited are you about it? I was thinking unrelated. And you know that happens. My grandmother makes them. It's the one thing that ever reminds me of them. Oh, my goodness. Like, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna give you a muffin. Um, but if I came into your house the other week, when you just before a Nisha's birthday party and you guys had the platters of cupcakes,

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Speaker 2: I would probably say to myself cupcakes. And then I would say, I bet those are furnished his birthday, and then it would give you the chance to say, Yeah, we're saving them for tomorrow, You know what I mean? And that's an easy way to then not?

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Speaker 1: Yes, engage

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Speaker 2: with it. But I haven't also actually asked for them. I've just noticed them and then made a comment of what I think they are, probably for as opposed to saying, Wow, Can I have one

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Speaker 1: again? It's a question of dosage. How do you bring it up. How persistent are you? Do you do it all the time? Is this a feature of the interaction? Do

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Speaker 2: you are they actually out and on display? Or because these apparently were in the refrigerator and it was just the odor. It wasn't like there was a platter of them out looking ready to be eaten. Those were like, tucked away. It just smelled good in the house. You probably could have said No, it's a candle.

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Speaker 1: It's precisely because it's such a gray area,

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Speaker 1: territory or topic When you think about, is it okay to ask that? I think it's okay to give whatever answer is the honest answer, because someone making this kind of ask politely,

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Speaker 1: it's theoretically prepared for any answer that you give, including no,

00:23:04

Speaker 1: which is why I find the husband's reaction particularly bothersome, that there is something that we talk about on the show regularly, which is that it's rude to call people out in front of other people. It's incredibly socially awkward. It's embarrassing for the person who's being called out.

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Speaker 1: The person who makes the call out might not even realize it, but it should be embarrassing for them that

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Speaker 1: it creates awkwardness for any witnesses, any people that are around experiencing that moment of discomfort. And

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Speaker 1: to me, it was that part of this interaction that was

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Speaker 1: the most obviously egregiously rude behavior in this whole interaction. They

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Speaker 2: say that couples all have different languages and they have different languages of love. And they certainly have different languages of of how they judge and treat each other in different ways.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you don't just have a language of love. You have a language of fighting. You have a language of,

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Speaker 2: you know, um, I don't know, condescension. Um, there's all kinds of different things that come into two people who interact on a 24 7 basis. And I know couples who throw these kinds of conversations at each other. No harm, no foul. They don't think

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Speaker 2: anything of it. It would be like telling someone broccoli on the tooth.

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Speaker 2: And I know other people who would be so massively offended they could never even think of considering getting together with someone who would behave like this or treat their partner like this.

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Speaker 2: So I really feel for muffin maker here who has to try and determine These are two friends that I like. I don't particularly love it when they do this in front of me, but I like them. They seem to like each other in all other aspects. I'm guessing making the assumption there.

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Speaker 2: It's something I might try. If I am better friends with one particular person in the couple, I might ask them about it or just check in and say, Hey, I'm not used to people doing that. Is that just like, like, is that just like a thing you guys do? And I should ignore it? Or is it something cause I wasn't sure

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Speaker 2: whether I should defend you or whether I shouldn't give you the muffin, or I didn't quite know what to do in that moment.

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Speaker 2: And you can talk with a really close friend that way. More distance in a friendship. You know, the kind of further out you go from, how closely you know these people, the less I'd be willing to make that an approach, and instead I would just move forward with deciding whether or not you want to spend time with people who are like that.

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Speaker 2: This is a study group. The class is probably going to end at some point.

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Speaker 1: Muffin Baker, Thank you for sharing this sort of deliciously pardon The pun complicated situation. There is some very clear etiquette here, and we hope this answer helps you decide how to proceed

00:25:43

Speaker 1: any time he wants. I think he was Just grab it. He wouldn't take turns or share. And when we called them, we didn't like it

00:25:51

Speaker 1: very room. So we're just excited that if we were going to have any fun, he couldn't play with us.

00:25:58

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:26:00

Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Teacher Time Out.

00:26:03

Speaker 1: Greetings, Lizzie and Dan. I'm an elementary teacher and have a full time aid in my classroom. Although we don't get along on a personal level, she adds value to the class and I appreciate her work with the students.

00:26:14

Speaker 1: Because of this, I have made sure to comment on her positive contributions.

00:26:19

Speaker 1: We have had a few clashes. I have used your tools of communication during these clashes, and they have helped me stay on topic with honesty at the forefront.

00:26:27

Speaker 1: After many months of eating lunch with the aid in a shared staff room, I decided to eat in my classroom. So I could have a small amount of quiet alone time.

00:26:36

Speaker 1: The staff she eats with has slowly dwindled because she alienates them with her negativity and judgments. In the past, I would have hid the truth to avoid uncomfortable situations like this. For example, I would have said, Oh, I have several phone calls to make today or I have a headache. I'll just eat somewhere else.

00:26:53

Speaker 1: But I've been really trying to use your concepts of consideration, respect and honesty. So I said, My brain needs some quiet time. At lunch, I will eat my classroom at my desk. Well, that worked for two days. On the third day, she just stayed in the room and ate 2 ft away from me.

00:27:09

Speaker 1: I was pretty annoyed. I ended up leaving the room after 15 minutes and squandered the rest of my lunch, making copies and doing administrative work, which is not the break I desperately need.

00:27:19

Speaker 1: How do I say I want time away from you? This is my classroom, which means you need to find another place to eat. Signed desperately seeking alone time

00:27:28

Speaker 2: desperately seeking alone time. Doug, this is so tough. It's I mean, I don't know how your school work. So I don't know if your classroom is considered your office

00:27:38

Speaker 2: in the grade school that I went to the public school. I went to some teachers actually had offices within the classroom, so they had a private office that they could shut a door to other teachers didn't.

00:27:50

Speaker 2: So sometimes I know AIDS work with a particular student. Sometimes I know they work in a classroom. So if she's the aid for the room specifically, then I would think of that as also her office space. Maybe, um, it's really hard, honestly to tell without knowing how the school kind of paints a picture for this. I think you

00:28:10

Speaker 2: could not have done a better job on your sample language of saying My brain needs time. My brain needs some quiet time. At lunch, I will eat in my classroom at my desk. I might move to the next strong version, which is I would really love to eat alone today.

00:28:28

Speaker 2: I was hoping I might be able to have the classroom,

00:28:31

Speaker 2: and that's where now you're admitting that it might be a shared space, but you are requesting that someone not join you in that space. And you're just saying I could really use some alone time? Do you mind if I eat alone in the classroom today?

00:28:44

Speaker 2: That might just be the way to do it and see how that goes.

00:28:48

Speaker 2: What are you thinking, Dan? Come on, give me some. Give me some thoughts here. What are you hearing? What I'm thinking

00:28:54

Speaker 1: is that I almost didn't want to answer this question because I think it's a real challenge. And you're doing as you've mapped out in your question, a lot of the things that we would suggest. You're really trying to let

00:29:06

Speaker 1: core principles of respect and honesty

00:29:09

Speaker 1: guide you so that you're both considerate and aware of someone else's feelings, but also true to what you're feeling and experiencing and where you'd like to see your work life going and how you'd like to see it look. And I reminded myself, This is the reality of tricky etiquette situations. And I was asking myself, What would I really do in this situation?

00:29:30

Speaker 1: Difficult. Coworkers are hard, and sometimes there is no escape. Sometimes it's about leaning in, and that's one option there. It might be that the reality is that unless you really want to be a moving target and

00:29:46

Speaker 1: toss a coin, whether you're in the break room or your classroom or take a walk during lunch. And that's certainly an option. You could just let the unpredictability of your schedule make it impossible

00:29:56

Speaker 1: for this person to pin you down and trap you in that shared meal of negativity,

00:30:01

Speaker 2: picturing her eating like at the playground, like in the tunnel slide like you know what I mean.

00:30:07

Speaker 1: It's a practical answer to a tricky etiquette question. Our relationship question. But it's not leaning in. The lean in option would be that

00:30:16

Speaker 1: you could be as honest as saying What I would really like now is quiet

00:30:20

Speaker 1: or silence so that I can recover. These days are long and stressful for me, and I just treasure that and really sort of taking a deeper dive into why that's so important to you and what exactly that looks like. So maybe you could be in the same room,

00:30:35

Speaker 1: but

00:30:35

Speaker 1: alone with your own thoughts or alone with your own newspaper or

00:30:40

Speaker 1: novel, or

00:30:42

Speaker 2: definitely done that before. Like I said, I'm going to sit here, but I'm not going to engage. I've been dying to read this article, or I really need time to kind of disengage from my space in order to get through the afternoon.

00:30:53

Speaker 1: I think not to make it

00:30:54

Speaker 2: sound like the teaching is terrible or that it is awful or that it's so stressful that, like

00:30:59

Speaker 2: it's like that. But just people are different, and some people really do need that recharge. And this person sounds like they're not positively impacting a lot of environments right now.

00:31:08

Speaker 1: Exactly. And that would be probably for me the closest thing to the deep truth and probably the direction I would go. I think you could also lean in even further if you wanted and address the particular things about the interaction that are bothers them to you

00:31:23

Speaker 1: that it would be easier for me to have a conversation and talk over lunch if we could both commit to keeping everything we say positive for just 20 minutes. I really need that for my

00:31:34

Speaker 2: mental clarity that was so good. So you're not

00:31:39

Speaker 1: criticizing or accusing her, telling her what she's doing is wrong or bad, but you're really sort of defining the kind of interaction that you would want to have

00:31:50

Speaker 1: in order for you to be able to engage and spend that time with her.

00:31:53

Speaker 2: One of the reasons I like that is because it does. The one thing that we haven't really talked about totally in this, which is here's a person who's negative and judgmental and starting to see other people avoiding her.

00:32:06

Speaker 2: Maybe if she's self aware, she's starting to the other people, avoiding her. Maybe she's trying to find places where she can engage.

00:32:13

Speaker 2: And so what I love about Dan's final sample script that he's given is that it would really allow for the idea that you could try to engage with someone and change your relationship and move it into a positive way by being honest, not mean just honest about the type

00:32:32

Speaker 2: of interaction you're willing to have with them.

00:32:35

Speaker 2: It doesn't solve your problem of wanting actual space and quiet. I get that, but maybe you can carve out part of the time one way and do a little leaning in every now and again. It doesn't have to be every time,

00:32:47

Speaker 1: desperately seeking alone time from one introvert to another. Thank you for a difficult question

00:32:52

Speaker 2: thinking about what you're going to do before you do. It

00:32:56

Speaker 1: means you

00:32:56

Speaker 2: won't have to disturb others.

00:32:58

Speaker 1: And it's another

00:32:59

Speaker 2: way to be a good citizen at school.

00:33:03

Speaker 2: Our next question is titled E Payment Etiquette

00:33:06

Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. As I work on embracing technology for my business, I'm realizing I'm out of the loop on best practices. If you're using an e payment option with a customer like PayPal or Venmo

00:33:18

Speaker 2: and have already confirmed the timing and amount, should I also be sending a request in advance for ease of payment? Or what if they don't pay in a timely manner? Should I reach out personally before or instead of sending a request through the app? What about if the exchanges personal and not business related,

00:33:39

Speaker 2: like someone paying for their share of a dinner bill? Should I send a request right away? Wait a certain period of time, only reach out in person.

00:33:47

Speaker 2: I love the convenience that these services offer for my customers, my friends and myself, and want to be sure I'm not committing any folk pause as a late adopter. Thank you so much for any insights you have and for making the world a brighter place with your show every week. Best. Amanda,

00:34:04

Speaker 1: Amanda. Thank you. I

00:34:05

Speaker 2: like this question. I am a late adopter to in this, so

00:34:08

Speaker 1: I don't think either of you are late adopters. I think this has been a slow roll out

00:34:12

Speaker 2: like I don't have Venmo, you know what I mean?

00:34:15

Speaker 1: You're not alone. A lot of people don't. And it's definitely one of the reasons. I think that this question is why is to be divided up between business and personal lanes, that for me, the way the business part of this question was set up is that there's already some awareness ahead of time about

00:34:33

Speaker 1: what the amount is and what the expected time of payment is. So that puts for me a request, a PayPal or Venmo request firmly in that

00:34:41

Speaker 1: this is like getting an invoice category. You

00:34:43

Speaker 2: know, it's coming. You've already agreed you bought in literally.

00:34:48

Speaker 1: So it's all about just how convenient is it to make that payment? Is it sure to get to them? Do you know that it's been delivered? All of my questions are much more mechanical.

00:34:58

Speaker 1: I do think there are ways to structure invoices that are more polite.

00:35:02

Speaker 1: Your prompt

00:35:04

Speaker 1: payment is appreciated. There's language that is both respectful, that is grateful. That is helpful. That is, I think, wise. And if a Venmo request or a papal request can be accompanied by that kind of language, I know, um, online QuickBooks invoices have that capacity.

00:35:24

Speaker 1: That's advisable. But I don't think you need to go

00:35:26

Speaker 1: an extra external form of communication along with it,

00:35:30

Speaker 1: unless you suspect that the person might not receive it.

00:35:34

Speaker 1: You might want to direct their attention to a Venmo account that's infrequently used or something like that. But otherwise I would treat it like an invoice and similarly to the way an invoice might come with some polite language attached to it. I think it's nice to let someone know that payment's been received,

00:35:51

Speaker 1: and I think you want to spend time customizing whatever

00:35:55

Speaker 1: app or payment system you're using so that that thank you request also is delivered. It is delivered in the same medium that the payment was made in and that it's polite in its nature. Thank you so much for your payment. We really appreciate your business. It doesn't need to be long and complicated. It can be simple and direct.

00:36:13

Speaker 1: When you change lanes to the more personal category,

00:36:17

Speaker 1: I think that the social elements of the interactions start to come into play and be more important.

00:36:24

Speaker 1: We've talked on this show about good borrowing, how you're responsible, as someone who borrows money, that you make an effort to pay someone back, that you do it promptly, that you do it ideally before they have to find you and remind you about what has been borrowed and should be returned, whether it's money or a

00:36:44

Speaker 1: physical thing.

00:36:45

Speaker 1: And sometimes the process of requesting that information with an app like Venmo can truncate the time

00:36:54

Speaker 1: that someone has and make it impossible for them to pay you back

00:36:58

Speaker 2: while

00:37:00

Speaker 1: it's still polite. And you don't want to remove that option with fast and repeated requests.

00:37:06

Speaker 1: Although it's also true that sometimes someone needs a little bit of information, they didn't know what their share of a bill was, and that changes the whole dynamic of the interaction. Do you want to get someone the information that they need to pay you back promptly as quickly as possible?

00:37:21

Speaker 1: If I'm dealing with someone like Lizzie Post or my brother who do not use these apps are not comfortable sending money over their phone. It's important that I check with them ahead of time that they could even receive this kind of request and that I changed the medium if I wanted to

00:37:38

Speaker 2: answer.

00:37:40

Speaker 2: I think it's always nice

00:37:42

Speaker 2: offering someone when you decide to split a bill some way, and someone doesn't have the cash on hand to just give it to you right away to offer a number of different ways or to say, what method would you prefer for paying me back?

00:37:54

Speaker 2: And I think that that's easy. And it also gives you the person who's owed money the chance to say, Okay, great. If it's a check, I'll call you Wednesday about it, or I will

00:38:03

Speaker 2: shoot you my address so you can mail it to me. You know, you can keep the conversation going

00:38:08

Speaker 2: about how you're going to make that transaction between the two of you happen. It allows the other person to kind of buy into you, giving them reminders, or which you shouldn't have to do the other person just pay you back. But it kind of sets up that we've had a conversation about this. It won't be awkward when I then remind you if I haven't seen it. And I think that's an important little kind of exchange to have happen

00:38:30

Speaker 1: any time there's something new, or even if it's just new to you, that still means it's new. It's okay to communicate clearly about it. And that's not an impolite conversation about money. People are often times nervous when they talk about money. They think they shouldn't there,

00:38:49

Speaker 1: confused as to when you cross that line of it being a reasonable in polite conversation to one that's not okay,

00:38:55

Speaker 2: Well, and you're supposed to be like as if it's all supposed to be chill as if we all are supposed to only be loaning each other, borrowing for each other enough that it wouldn't make a difference.

00:39:05

Speaker 2: And it's like, Well, it doesn't make a difference in maybe a 24 48 even 72 a one week period. But it might start to make a difference if it ends up being, you know,

00:39:14

Speaker 2: a month long period or the amount starts to repeat a couple times before payback happens. Like my

00:39:20

Speaker 1: share of the bill feels small, but there were four other people and no one else has done their share either. And now it's a real expense for

00:39:28

Speaker 2: something. It's so it's really getting us away from this idea that, oh, it should be no big deal for me to have $50 out there to a friend. It should be no big deal for me to have $15 out there for a friend.

00:39:41

Speaker 2: Get away from that and instead think. Okay, like I owe someone money, I'm going to get it back to them, you know? Or I'm you know, it's okay for me to check in with someone about this, and I can do that in a friendly way. And it doesn't make me look like I'm somehow grabbing for cash or desperate.

00:39:59

Speaker 2: No, this is something we agreed to. I've got full rights in here, and I think people need to get more comfortable with that. I hear a lot of insecurity around that,

00:40:07

Speaker 1: and that's why I like that conversation. As the exchange is being set up as someone's offering to pay the bill as someone's asking if someone else would be willing to send out a Venmo request, Whatever it is,

00:40:18

Speaker 1: one piece of advice that we have been giving it Emily Post for many years is that conversations about money should be clear, candid and honest, absolutely, that these are bottom line decisions. For a lot of people, there are realities that people have to deal with. And when it's important

00:40:34

Speaker 1: for those realities to be discussed and communicated that the best way to do it is in a way that gets everyone on board and understanding what's going on.

00:40:42

Speaker 2: Amanda, thank you so much for the question and congratulations on adopting some new methods to make such transactions between friends and clients easier. Well,

00:40:53

Speaker 1: that's how Eddie Johnson

00:40:54

Speaker 2: learned something about trustworthiness. Remember, when you show your

00:40:58

Speaker 1: trustworthy in little

00:40:59

Speaker 2: things, you'll be trusted with big things?

00:41:02

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:41:05

Speaker 2: yeah,

00:41:05

Speaker 2: thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette. At Emily post dot com. You can leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette.

00:41:28

Speaker 2: And just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts, so we know you want your question on the show.

00:41:44

Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ADS free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air.

00:42:01

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover. And first we hear from sustaining member David on Episode 2 86. Not religious, but respectful.

00:42:13

Speaker 1: Greetings, Lizzie, Dan and team. Thanks for a great podcast, and I'm excited to finally write you as a sustaining member. Thank you. I was very interested in the letter from the person who grew up in an agnostic home but wants to respectfully take part in religious celebrations. I grew up Jewish.

00:42:30

Speaker 1: I am now a secular humanist and married an Irish Catholic.

00:42:33

Speaker 1: Thus I have advice and kudos to the listener. First, the respectful attitude the writer has will go a very long way to helping them integrate. Well, kudos for being such an accepting person

00:42:45

Speaker 1: for advice. I find that asking questions about the nature of the event is helpful. It both gives guidance on how to behave. Plus, it shows the person you ask that you want to do the right thing.

00:42:55

Speaker 1: Most important, at least to me, is to remember the significance of the event and that I am not the center of attention. I tend to have strong feelings about organized religion, but this is not the place for them as an invited guest who chooses to take part. It is my responsibility to participate where I feel comfortable

00:43:12

Speaker 1: and quietly absent myself from areas that may cross the line for me. Ie communion.

00:43:18

Speaker 1: Interestingly, I found that my host were usually more concerned about how I'd feel comfortable than I was.

00:43:24

Speaker 1: Life gives us only so many chances to connect and learn about different cultures. Being able to take part in a nonjudgmental fashion simply makes us better rounded, better informed and more understanding.

00:43:36

Speaker 1: Best David

00:43:37

Speaker 2: L. Couldn't agree more. David L Thank you so much for sharing.

00:43:41

Speaker 1: I will second, that couldn't agree more. It's going to say

00:43:44

Speaker 1: I particularly like the part about remembering that you're not the center of attention at most religious events where you're attending as a guest. It's a really good reminder that even though you can feel like that awkward sticking out like a sore thumb thing

00:43:58

Speaker 1: for most people, that's not what they're thinking about at

00:44:01

Speaker 2: all. In fact, they are there to. Even though I liked where David brought in, that

00:44:06

Speaker 2: these aren't messages he would want. Some of the things that get said or that are done are really against his own personal view. Their things he wouldn't agree with, things he doesn't choose to sign up for, and remembering that the people who are there at that event are actually there to participate in those things, to gain strength from them in ways and to respect that.

00:44:24

Speaker 2: The time to talk about how those things don't jive with you

00:44:28

Speaker 2: is in a different space.

00:44:31

Speaker 1: David. I hope that we can all be and I love the way you put this nonjudgmental, better rounded and better informed

00:44:39

Speaker 2: we also got an email from Emily about Episode 2 83 and Wedding Hosts Footing the Bill

00:44:45

Speaker 1: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. Thank you for your podcast. I appreciate the thoughtfulness with which you tackle sticky interpersonal issues and usually agree with your advice.

00:44:54

Speaker 1: I was moved to write when I heard your discussion about how to word a wedding invitation when some but not all of the parents are contributing to the cost.

00:45:02

Speaker 1: You suggested talking to the contributing father and stepmother to get them to agree to include the non contributing divorced mother as a host on the invitation,

00:45:11

Speaker 1: I would like to share an alternative perspective.

00:45:14

Speaker 1: What if we decided that it wasn't really the guests concern who was paying for the wedding and kept that as a behind the scenes discussion among the couple and the members of their two families? What if all the parents step parents and the couple's themselves were considered hosts and the invitation was issued from the couple with their families? Regards Emily

00:45:33

Speaker 2: Emily. This happens all the time. We actually see this happen all the time, where a lot of, um, a lot of families will end up saying the couple together with their families, and that's often how you kind of include that broader perspective that you're sharing. You do kind of help eliminate the idea of

00:45:52

Speaker 2: who's paying or are we identifying a specific couple as the host?

00:45:57

Speaker 2: And it's funny. The actual payment of the wedding has become something that you kind of can't tell from how the wedding gets set up and based on what traditions end up being embraced. You really can't. I got to say, like nowadays, you really can't tell necessarily

00:46:14

Speaker 2: where it comes into play. And I think the point Dan and I were trying to make in that particular episode is that for the hosts who are paying,

00:46:22

Speaker 2: you do want to check in with them and just make sure that they feel okay and comfortable. We like the inclusive approach that you're leaning towards as well. We like the idea of getting away from the image of money attached to the invitation itself. But the fact that there are some people who are paying for the event,

00:46:42

Speaker 2: the idea is to

00:46:43

Speaker 2: consult those people

00:46:45

Speaker 1: and ideally, by consulting with those people, you get them on board with doing exactly what you're describing here as the ideal outcome. Totally. Thank you for the clarity on this question. We appreciate the feedback.

00:46:59

Speaker 1: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your next question feedback, comment or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:47:16

Speaker 2: It's time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and today we're going to continue with our top 10 most search content, with a continuation of number four in that list, the entire guide. We were able to get through the first half of the entire guide in last week's episode, but this week we're going to finish the entire guide going through business. Formal business. Casual, dressy, casual and casual. We have already covered festive

00:47:42

Speaker 1: Well, we're going to start right where you suggested with business formal and business Formal really indicates that you want to notch it up, that you want to make an effort to go a little bit past where you might regularly. It's designed to let people know that this matters, and

00:47:59

Speaker 1: at the same time it also doesn't mean that you're going usually into evening attire or evening where so for men, this means that your ceiling is going to be the dark business suit, not the tuxedo business says Okay, we're still operating in that world of professional attire, which

00:48:18

Speaker 1: doesn't get velvet shoes and bow ties. So stick to the dark suit, maybe a matching vest. Definitely a tie, but not your wildest I. If this is the place, you're going to express yourself a little bit, you want to keep that choice a little bit more understated.

00:48:35

Speaker 1: For women, a suit is also an option or anything that you think of as a business style dress or skirt and jacket, pant and jacket combo.

00:48:45

Speaker 1: Um, is going to have you in a pretty good place for business. Formal again. Be thinking slightly more conservative. You have an option that's louder, more outrageous. It's still a jacket, but it's

00:48:56

Speaker 2: lime green,

00:48:57

Speaker 1: a little more creative. Let's say this isn't creative business formal. This is business.

00:49:02

Speaker 2: Formal

00:49:05

Speaker 1: business casual is oftentimes the most confusing category for people because there is quite a bit more choice here, and the problem isn't so much with the ceiling as the floor.

00:49:16

Speaker 2: Dan and I know that we work from home quite a lot more are also surprised at how our floor keeps dropping in the world of business casual. I don't think you're going to see me in my painter's pants anytime soon

00:49:29

Speaker 2: on a work day. But you know, it's definitely different when you don't have to interact with other people for the day. For the most part,

00:49:36

Speaker 1: absolutely. Although little pro tip for those home workers out there, I find I'm much more productive if I dress like I'm going to work. So let's talk about the floor and by the floor. I mean the level of casual attire that you don't want to go

00:49:50

Speaker 2: below. So

00:49:52

Speaker 1: with formal attire, I often say, raise your ceiling, always have another option that's slightly more formal, but I

00:49:58

Speaker 1: here the advice is to set your floor firmly so that you know what not to wear as you're making a greater range of choices. So I think the easiest advice to give about business casual is that usually it means no jeans, no athletic wear.

00:50:13

Speaker 2: Really? Because

00:50:14

Speaker 1: really

00:50:15

Speaker 2: helped paint the picture because I'm in the casual world of business. It really means no jeans, no

00:50:21

Speaker 2: athletic wear for the majority of people heading out there. Yes

00:50:24

Speaker 1: to offices. Okay, clearly, they're going to be some companies that have different dress codes and the tires, But I think it's pretty safe to say professional situations. I'm going to avoid jeans. I'm going to avoid legging sweat pants. I'm going to avoid

00:50:39

Speaker 1: a shirt that doesn't have a collar on it,

00:50:42

Speaker 1: particularly for men. And I'm going to listen to that little discretionary voice. If there's any little hint of

00:50:50

Speaker 1: Is this appropriate for work creeping into my thought process? As I get dressed, I'm going to defer to that little discretionary voice.

00:50:57

Speaker 2: I think in the world of female fashion, it can be really hard because we've got very thick leggings, which are the athletic wear or are they not? You've got styles that are, uh, sweaters that actually sometimes do you know, cover more of you. But because they're loose and baggy, maybe they fall off a shoulder or

00:51:17

Speaker 2: there's all these fashion items. I feel like in the world of women's fashion that makes it hard to feel like,

00:51:26

Speaker 2: uh, you know exactly what to go for for business casual. But I like the idea of keep

00:51:33

Speaker 2: couple things kind of out of your idea of what's permissible, and you'll at least land in a really comfortable zone if you go to the office. If you go to the meeting. If you work with the team and they are in jeans or they are showing up in F leisure wear, then you know that at that particular company, that's the case. But start in that place of dress slacks,

00:51:53

Speaker 2: colored shirts,

00:51:55

Speaker 2: clean fitted, decently, not too tight, not too loose. These are the place the zones to be in for business casual, because this is a broad idea of what it is.

00:52:05

Speaker 1: Absolutely. And I will just

00:52:07

Speaker 1: tell everyone out there that I've had multiple clients just in the last week.

00:52:12

Speaker 1: Books, seminars and request proposals for seminars because

00:52:16

Speaker 1: business casual have gotten too casual, and these are companies from Vermont to South Carolina, so it's important across regions across cultures. It's worth taking care with this and really

00:52:31

Speaker 1: thinking ahead of time and saying

00:52:33

Speaker 1: I'm going to stick to the safer territory here because it might even be that the standards that you're seeing around you being broadly adopted aren't what's intended by the business.

00:52:42

Speaker 2: Use it as one of those great opportunities to dress that slight step up to engage in that way. That's going to look impressive.

00:52:53

Speaker 2: As you just heard Dan say. He's hearing managers and people saying it gets too far and then it doesn't feel like work anymore. So keep it in that work zone and use it as a positive way to do that.

00:53:06

Speaker 1: Let's leave the workplace for a minute. Okay? With some dressy casual,

00:53:10

Speaker 2: I heard this phrase more than anything. Dressy, casual, really tough,

00:53:14

Speaker 1: but not so tough. If you just say to yourself, What's the spirit of dressy casual? It's notching it up a little bit, but

00:53:21

Speaker 2: having a little bit

00:53:22

Speaker 1: of fun with it.

00:53:23

Speaker 2: It's the social version of business casual, to be honest, because it's more, it's a little dressier than Europe, leisure wear and your genes that are your everyday jeans.

00:53:32

Speaker 2: But it's still not anything in those semiformal category.

00:53:36

Speaker 1: So that more colorful jacket that we said, Oh, maybe we're not going to do that for our business attire. This might be the perfect time to get your plaid jacket out or your salmon shirt or your lime green shoes.

00:53:49

Speaker 2: Often it means stepping up the material that things are made of. So rather than a Jersey knit cotton T shirt, you've got maybe something that

00:53:57

Speaker 2: has a little bit of silk to it, or something like that. There are ways that dressy casual can play even in the same categories, but with different materials or patterning that kind of help help be that dressy, casual version.

00:54:11

Speaker 1: And since we're just throwing the term casual around, let's talk about casual attire,

00:54:16

Speaker 2: even though we're going to dive into the world of casual. Remember that on this list, we're talking about attending events that we're getting invitations with these kind of notations on them, whether that's from work or whether that's with friends.

00:54:30

Speaker 2: So your casual isn't your casual because you're lounging around the house or you decided to go to the

00:54:36

Speaker 2: grocery store on a day where you feel really lazy. Your casual is I'm going to my friend's barbecue or I'm going to my bosses barbecue and it's casual attire. Um, you know where I've been invited to a family event, something like that. So, um, try and think of it as it's casual, but you still want to look like you're okay and it's like you're presentable, Presentable. Casual might be a good way to put it.

00:55:03

Speaker 2: That word presentable is subjective, though, and I think it's really important to remember that, and to not judge too, too heavily in one direction or the other. I used to love some of the rulings that our parents had for us on things like whether it was you with your hair. Um, you know, or

00:55:20

Speaker 1: I need to see your eyes. Would

00:55:22

Speaker 1: was my mother's direction on that.

00:55:24

Speaker 2: Yeah, and for me, my cousin Casey gave me a Grateful Dead shirt when I was seven that I wore literally until it disintegrated.

00:55:31

Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed to wear that shirt to family functions. I had to wear something a little nicer

00:55:37

Speaker 1: at the same time. These are casual family functions where sneakers are fine. Shorts are fine.

00:55:44

Speaker 1: A sun dress is fine, but

00:55:48

Speaker 1: you've still got some basic standard of present ability, and that standard present ability has more to do with what you're wearing, not negatively impacting your ability to relate and interact with other people. Not.

00:56:00

Speaker 1: Are you conforming to a certain level of formality and dress?

00:56:03

Speaker 2: Definitely. Check out our entire guide on Emily. Post com for more about dressing for every occasion.

00:56:10

Speaker 1: Remember, at home, at school or on a date,

00:56:15

Speaker 2: Any time

00:56:16

Speaker 1: and every time appearance counts,

00:56:22

Speaker 1: we like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world. And that can come in so many forms today we hear from faith.

00:56:32

Speaker 1: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I wanted to reach out with an etiquette salute for my friend Anna. I'm having a birthday party tomorrow and she texted me this afternoon. Hey, Faith for your party tomorrow. Is it more the merrier or close friends? Only Then she told me that her roommates, whom I know and like we're at loose ends for the night of the party.

00:56:51

Speaker 1: Such a simple message.

00:56:53

Speaker 1: But it was so nice that she won checked before bringing them to gave me an easy out That didn't make me look like a jerk. I could just say I'd prefer to keep it to close friends only, please.

00:57:03

Speaker 1: And three, she told me who she was hoping to invite so that I knew who I was saying yes to

00:57:08

Speaker 1: my thanks to Anna for communicating well and making it easy for me to do the same. And thanks as always, to the two of you for your wonderful podcast. Best faith.

00:57:17

Speaker 2: I love that I love it when questions are asked. Well,

00:57:22

Speaker 1: okay, thank you so much for sharing. And I hope that you enjoyed that birthday party. Thank

00:57:26

Speaker 2: you for listening and thank you to everyone who sent us something and especially thank you to everyone who supports us on Patreon.

00:57:34

Speaker 1: Please connect with us and share the show with friends, family and co workers. However, you like to share your podcasts, you can send us your next question feedback or salute by

00:57:44

Speaker 1: email to awesome etiquette. Emily post dot com

00:57:47

Speaker 1: By phone. You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:57:54

Speaker 2: on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute.

00:58:03

Speaker 1: Please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. And please consider leaving us a review. It helps with the show ranking, which helps new people find awesome etiquette.

00:58:20

Speaker 2: Our show is edited by Chris Albertine, an assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks, Kris and Brigitte.

00:58:27

Speaker 2: Mm,

00:58:32

Speaker 2: mhm,

00:58:36

Speaker 2: yeah.