Episode 297 - A Spot of Tea

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social. Could you see? That's old fashioned.

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Speaker 1: Watch how busy post. And they're supposed to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette, where

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Speaker 2: we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

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Speaker 1: On today's show, we take your questions on sending checks with condolence cards, asking other parents if their Children are vaccinated, giving gifts when a wedding is affected by the pandemic and dealing with noise while working odd hours from home.

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Speaker 2: For awesome etiquette sustaining members, Our question is about being overwhelmed with baby gifts,

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Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript from Emily's 1922 edition on afternoon teas.

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Speaker 1: All that's coming up

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Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lizzie Post,

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Speaker 1: and I'm Dan Post sending

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Speaker 2: we did something really special this week.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of fun, wasn't it?

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Speaker 2: It was incredible. We did our first ever post family zoom call and I think we had absolutely every family member, except for one ex wife, which can tell you how close we all are, even after marriage is dissolved.

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Speaker 2: And and that wasn't even for any bad reason. I don't think I think that was just timing. Um, but we we got to be on the phone on the phone with each other via Zoom, and we were all there. Dan, tell everybody why we were there.

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Speaker 1: It was the date of our grandmother, Mud Elizabeth posts birthday, and it would have been her 1/100 birthday. And I think the siblings in the generation one step up from us got to talking and said, Let's

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Speaker 1: use this as an excuse to get the whole family together and it ended up being a really good excuse. And as you said, I was so surprised. It was kind of a

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Speaker 1: a quick invite. It happened kind of quickly, and the fact that everybody signed on was pretty remarkable. It was so much fun to see.

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Speaker 1: Sort of the back call get answered.

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Speaker 2: I know, right? And it was these are people that

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Speaker 2: for some of us cousins, we haven't seen each other in years, since who never got married last. And for other cousins. We see each other every single week. Dan and I obviously talk almost every day like it's it's really different. And I think we're a family, that

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Speaker 2: we We are one of those families where it's kind of like, no matter how far you've been a part of how long you've been apart,

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Speaker 2: you really do just pick right back up. And Casey is Casey and Pete is Pete and you and I am you and that, you know, and Wills will and we just We also are who we are, like, you know, But it was really fun. Your mom got us all together to do a toast

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Speaker 2: to mud and to cheers her and to kind of celebrate and remember this wonderful

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Speaker 2: kind of second matriarch of our family, right? I mean, Emily's are big matriarch, but mud was also an incredibly big unifier. Um, you know, she just she put family first in so many ways. We all agreed that she would definitely be smiling down looking on us, and, um

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Speaker 2: and it was really special. But it was also it was cool the way your mom scheduled the whole thing and set it all up.

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Speaker 2: So she let us know that the four siblings muds Children

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Speaker 2: would get to do a real kind of like speech or toast. And then what she did is she opened it up to then their Children. So the grandchildren of that branch of the family could say something that they remembered if they wanted to say anything. So Cindy was really smart, and she let people know ahead of time.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna mute everybody. And when it's your branch of the families turn, I'm going to a mute. Each of you wait until your family elder has spoken, and then I'm pretty sure we went in age order. So it was like Anna went first, and then me and in your family you went first and then will And in Pete's family, Pete went first and then Jill, and so everybody kind of got their chance. It was really well organized, really well done.

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Speaker 2: Funny moment when Uncle Alan So after each person spoke, we would cheers and take a drink. And Uncle Alan, like, I think, by the third cheers was like great, we're all going to be drunk.

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Speaker 1: It was while it was so much fun like that. Like you say, people's personalities just emerged, came out of everywhere. And

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Speaker 1: while we're talking about that, how about my brother showing up 10 minutes before the end of the call

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Speaker 2: and

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Speaker 1: blaming my mother for emailing him and not his wife for

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Speaker 2: actual appointment? Notice that so

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Speaker 1: funny? And

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Speaker 1: but so anyway, it's almost impossible, like, you say, to to suppress people's personalities, particularly have known so well. I, like you, also just shined back at Casey, who's

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Speaker 1: in Colorado. We see less of an. His remembrance of mud was about her as a connector to this larger family that he cared so much about.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of people's reflections, were very personal, And, um, I think that's one of the reasons to call. Ultimately felt so satisfying.

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Speaker 1: And yet, as we talk about it, there was this and I don't want to call it formal. But there was a structure. It was so post family in the fact that it was, it was built around a toast and around this sort of progression through a hierarchy of the family and,

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Speaker 1: um, even things like the organizing sister being like, sort of organizing about it.

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Speaker 1: But I was thinking about that structure and how it functions. In some ways, you know, you build, you build the plumbing so the hot water can flow. And I was I was reminded that there is. There is both a lot of plumbing in our family, but there's a lot of hot water.

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Speaker 2: Very true. Very true. It was

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Speaker 2: It was awesome to see everyone. For me, it was the largest zoom call I had done. I thought it was handled really, really well. It also it had that feeling of togetherness that you wanted. You know, I'm hoping our family chooses to do that more often. I don't want to make it sound like sad sack or anything like that. But

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Speaker 2: being on my own through this, it meant a lot to see each and every family member and to to just physically,

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Speaker 2: I guess, physically but virtually see that they are there, that they're alive and well that their kids are smiling.

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Speaker 2: You know it did. It meant it meant something to me, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I think the first words out of my mouth where I love you all, and it's so good to see everybody to

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Speaker 2: see. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's really true. It was really true. We hope that you all are having many great connections with your friends and family. I know everyone's sort of getting sick of

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Speaker 2: virtually connecting. And I've heard this week a lot of people feeling like everyone is starting to say no to zoom calls and stuff like that and gatherings online. But we know that for for many people, uh, this makes a big difference that continuing to put effort into connecting to people makes a big difference right now.

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Speaker 2: And that doesn't have to be hours long conversations. It can be really quick chats. It can. It can be small things that make a difference. But

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Speaker 2: they say now is the part of this where we can't give up and we've got to really try to be there for one another. So, uh, from our family to yours and to your friends as well, we really encourage you to be there for each other right

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Speaker 1: now you're here. Should

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Speaker 2: we be there for our listeners

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Speaker 1: to say I smell a transition coming?

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Speaker 2: Shall we

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Speaker 1: get to some questions

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media on Twitter. We're at Emily Post inst on

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Speaker 1: instagram. We

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Speaker 2: are at Emily Post Institute

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Speaker 2: and on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 1: Our first question this week is about cash with condolences.

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. Is it ever appropriate for someone to include a check with a condolence card? The senator was not a family member that was helping with funeral responsibilities. Thank you, Sherry.

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Speaker 2: No. Typically, you don't see people sending cash for funerals. But at the same time we have learned by this question coming up that in certain communities this does happen. And so if this is the standard in your family group, it might be something that you end up

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Speaker 2: doing that's unfamiliar to somebody else.

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Speaker 2: It's it's It's again. It's not common, but it is something we've heard about from time to time. I probably wouldn't take offense to it, but personally, because it's not something I've seen done a lot, I would be a little confused. And then I'd say, Okay, like I don't know What would you do, Dan? Because it's a little different.

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Speaker 1: It is a little different, and my mind sort of ran through a few possibilities. And, um, one would be helping out with the funeral

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Speaker 1: arrangements themselves. That's one use for that cash. The other is that oftentimes you see these directions in lieu of flowers. Please offer a donation.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking about someone who

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Speaker 2: college, fund or donate exactly,

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Speaker 1: didn't didn't know what that was or the best way to do that, saying, Oh, I'll just include a little something with my condolence note.

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Speaker 1: My mind is going to the place of looking for the best possible intentions or wishes of the person who did it, and that would be the way I would try to receive it

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Speaker 2: with the spirit of generosity, right, because with the spirit of generosity in which it was given

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Speaker 1: absolutely and I'm also taking note as sort of someone who keeps track of etiquette, the confusion that comes along with receiving that cash. And I would think to myself, if I was feeling so inspired, I would want to give some indication about what my thinking was, just sort of as a way to turn this confusion to a little lesson for myself.

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Speaker 2: Would you ever, if you received it,

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Speaker 2: call the person to ask what the money was for if they hadn't indicated anything? I'm wondering if there's any etiquette obligation on the part of the receiver to make sure it goes toward whatever it's intended for and again. Typically, the giver would be the one to indicate that. But you know, we have these moments where people, you know don't

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Speaker 2: don't make things perfectly crystal clear for us. Would you? Would you ask, would you say, Oh, we got this? But it wasn't indicated. If it was for flowers or a donation and we wanted to make sure it went to the right place,

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Speaker 2: would that be

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Speaker 1: good?

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Speaker 1: My answer is the totally unsatisfying. It depends. It would depend on how I knew the person how they were related to the deceased. How much money it was if I was really saying, Oh boy, this is something I have to be sure I understand.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna figure out a way to reach out if it's Oh, this is Mom's best friend ever. I wonder if they had a little thing about this or and I'll just ask her

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Speaker 1: or it might not be that easy. It might be from someone who's a little more distant from the family or the person who receives it, or where you say to yourself, It's just not practical. That comes with the volume of condolences, and it's just something you take note of.

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Speaker 2: It is something that I would say you should

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Speaker 2: acknowledge. So if you've received this, I would. At the very least, if you're not going to ask any questions about it and its intentions, I would make sure to make a reference to it in my acknowledgement, when I send a thank you for that condolence of, you know, and thank you so much for the for the check as well, you can either include what you put it towards or you can say, you know that it will come in helpful or we were really grateful to receive it,

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Speaker 2: um,

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is truthful but benevolent and kind and thoughtful. Way to say it. You know not. Oh, we were so glad to see it, but totally confused. Like you know, you don't want to go that route.

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Speaker 1: Good reminder about the acknowledgement of the condolence cards. Those happen, whether there's a gift or not.

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Speaker 1: Sherry, Thank you so much for this question, and we hope that our answer helps as you're keeping track of your P's and Q's at a difficult time.

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Speaker 1: You see now are different. Letters have different purposes. They do all kinds of things. Writing letters is just a town some people are born with summer. I'm glad you appreciated my help.

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Speaker 2: Mhm.

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Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Verifying Vaccinations.

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Speaker 2: Hello. Is there any way to politely ask a fellow parent whom you know if they vaccinate their Children when a no answer would result in me not wanting our Children to play together?

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about arranging playdates and having friends visit etcetera, not asking strangers on the playground or at the library or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for any advice. Anonymous,

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Speaker 1: Anonymous I almost want to call upstairs and get Pucci to come down here and give us the sample script because she has been The person in our family has been most responsible for asking this question, and

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Speaker 1: I will tell you, based on the conversations that have followed that, there is absolutely a polite way to ask this question. The trick is

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Speaker 2: like solution. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, this is This is something that parents ask about these days. It's part of keeping track of your child's health and safety and knowing who's been vaccinated when there are concerns about people not getting vaccinated and their outbreaks of things that are not nice to get and are preventable. If people are vaccinated, it's it's something that matters enough to parents. It's a conversation that happens

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Speaker 1: even though it's a conversation about people's health and people's health care decisions. So you're wise to be thinking about careful approaches to this conversation or taking some responsibility for your own interest when you ask those questions. But

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Speaker 1: there are also questions that are very much part of the public discussion among parent groups these days.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so taking stock it now kind of is a more common question to be asked and answered. We understand a bit more about the varying reasons why this question may be asked when typically, medical questions aren't something that we volunteer up in the pre pre play dates. Um,

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Speaker 2: is it just that it's a health question, or are there other things that also make this really difficult?

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Speaker 1: There are some kind of tricky twists and turns to this one because it is a personal health decision, but it's one that then affects other people.

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Speaker 1: So the personal becomes political or social. But almost by definition, because the choices you're making are impacting others. And then

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Speaker 1: the ways that people feel about that are strong, particularly because the impact involves people's safety.

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Speaker 1: So how do you have that conversation? Well, I've just set it all up as a sort of a fraught and difficult thing, and now I want to deconstruct that a little bit and say,

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Speaker 2: you know, make it more comfortable and accessible. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's talk sample scripts because those are so useful for crossing that awkwardness boundary and

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Speaker 1: having something that otherwise might feel difficult, feel comfortable and acceptable.

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Speaker 1: How about something like, Oh, there's something I've been meaning to talk with you about. It's a little personal. I'd like to ask about vaccines before we get our kids together.

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Speaker 2: Dan, what I really like about asking asking to ask is that it also kind of lets you recognise the idea that this is a potential conflict that this is.

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Speaker 2: You're aware that this isn't the easiest question to discuss, and I think that it's nice to put that out there.

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Speaker 2: The way that makes that successful

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Speaker 2: isn't by doing it in a tone that says, I need to talk about something and it's kind of awkward. You know where that stern and a little bit like Kurt and like, I'm setting a boundary. I'm letting you know what I'm doing. Rock.

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Speaker 2: Instead, you wanted to feel more friendly and accepting and really permissive of the other person to not engage in the conversation.

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Speaker 2: You can do that confidently by knowing that you know how to proceed. If the answer you get isn't one that makes you think you are, kids can play together

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Speaker 2: having already that polite way to handle that. This isn't going well, or this isn't going to be a place where we can say yes to play dates

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Speaker 2: I think is really important. What is that language in the back pocket? If you do get an answer, that means Oh, we can't have a play date.

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Speaker 1: I think you just let someone know that you're going to need to talk more about it if you want to get your kids together.

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Speaker 2: I think that sounds really good. I liked how gentle that sounded. Just okay, then probably will need to talk a little bit more or at another time again before we can say yes to the playdates

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Speaker 1: and know what your boundaries are ahead of time so that you can be really clear about what that is. Say, Oh, we have a really firm policy. I have a really foreign policy that we only do play dates with. People who are

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Speaker 1: fully vaccinated, have vaccinations for X, y and Z,

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Speaker 1: and I'd be delighted to talk with you more about that. If you wanted to get our kids together sometime, If you wanted to just talk more about why we do that,

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Speaker 1: that's an opportunity to have more discussion. It also gives them an opportunity to disengage if they don't want to have that discussion as they're aware of what the consequences are,

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Speaker 1: at least as far as you go in your relationship.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we've got asked to ask. We've got feel confident about your boundaries and know what they are before you make any asks that way, no matter what your answer, you kind of know how to exit the conversation next or move forward with planning.

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Speaker 2: Dan, give us at least one other thing to help us, Not worry. So and I don't mean to say not worry because this is a concern. But you know, what can we do to help ease people's minds on this? Because it is, it's a delicate topic.

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Speaker 1: It can be a delicate topic, and we've sort of spent a lot of time being careful and delicate with that Faberge egg.

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Speaker 1: But what I really want to remind people is that 99% of people are all going to feel very similarly about this are all going to have their kids vaccinated. This conversation happens in a one sentence question. One sentence reply. The vast, vast, vast majority of the time and

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Speaker 1: it is those one or two occasions where something comes up differently where

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Speaker 1: you've got to be prepared and like you say, you ask, You ask permission to have that you're prepared for what you say if it comes out

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Speaker 1: that 1% awkward.

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Speaker 1: But generally speaking, you stay comfortable in the realization that most people are in pretty good alignment on this question, and it's not going to be a big deal

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Speaker 2: Anonymous. We really hope this helps, and we hope that you and your Children are going to be able to have lots of really fun play dates.

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Speaker 2: Mhm,

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Speaker 1: mhm

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Speaker 1: Our next question is about a distant guest with a gift.

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Speaker 1: Dear Lizzie and Dan, Thank you for continuing your very informative and enjoyable podcast during this pandemic. You and your team really have done a great job at addressing the new social distancing norms while retaining a sense of community. I do, however, have a follow up question to your article. Wedding plans in the age of Covid 19,

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Speaker 1: with an abundance of consideration for traveling guests, most of whom including my husband and myself, live 1000 miles away, my cousin postponed her much anticipated March 21st wedding just one week prior to the big event.

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Speaker 1: The couple did go ahead with the ceremony on the original date before their immediate family and rescheduled the reception for New Year's Eve, when we will all hopefully be free. If this pandemic we have not yet given the couple of wedding gift, as we would typically give a check to the newly married couple on their wedding day.

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Speaker 1: What is the etiquette of wedding gifts when the ceremony and reception are so far apart.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we spoke to the couple after the ceremony and offered our congratulations and well wishes via phone. But is that really enough to tide us over until the actual wedding celebration?

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Speaker 1: The couple never had an engagement party or shower where we would have otherwise given them a modest gift. They never created a registry.

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Speaker 1: But should we be sending them something to mark the occasion prior to the more formal celebration in December?

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Speaker 1: Kind regards socially and temporarily distant wedding guest.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh! Socially and temporarily distant wedding guests. I think that any kind of reach out her gift would be very welcome at this time. There is sort of this gray area, I would say in

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Speaker 2: in any kind of situation where you have a ceremony that's taken place and then a belated reception. And that's essentially what we're doing here. With all of these covid weddings

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Speaker 2: in some shape or form, some folks are choosing to scrap the belated reception altogether and just say we got married this way. I was actually really both sad and excited to find out my cousin, who is my my closest girl cousin. She's like my little sister. We just traveled to Italy together,

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Speaker 2: Just decided to do this. And I'm so bummed that I'm not actually going to get to see her get married. But that's one where I say, Okay, I'm bummed. But when I talked to her, I've got to be really excited.

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Speaker 2: Um, hopefully she doesn't listen to podcast. Um, my appreciate you.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, like, none of my family listens to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Um,

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Speaker 2: some good friends too. But, uh, but it can be this kind of like, strange space. And I think people really do still want to celebrate. And they really I love the fact that the idea was that the phone call of, well, wishes

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Speaker 2: is that really enough to tide us over? I like that idea that there was this, like, because I love this. Yeah, like there's this, like, celebration and excitement and like awesomeness that that the other person wants to participate in two. And when you stall that, what do we do?

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Speaker 1: This is wedding gift giving at its finest. At its best. It's like I just want to give

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Speaker 2: most well intentioned and

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Speaker 1: Where's my registry?

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Speaker 2: Help me, Please help me. We didn't get to do showers or engagement gifts. By the way, if there are no showers or engagements, you can always just send gifts like there's no reason why you can't just send people gifts, folks. But no, in all seriousness and answer to socially and temporarily distant wedding guests. Question, Um, I think a gift would be very welcome. I'm sure it doesn't mean you would have to send a gift later. Um, consider this just a really long period of the couple being able to receive gifts and a really long period of people being able to send their gifts.

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Speaker 2: So under these circumstances, I think it's not bad at all. Um,

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Speaker 2: if as and I think more so, I mean, look at the date of the wedding. March 21st doesn't really even matter what part of the country they were in. This was like the week where pretty much everything shut down. And it was like the week before and the week before that, where people were still trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: if their state was going to shut, how bad things were in their area

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Speaker 2: and I think that that those kinds of things make it really reasonable for someone to wait till the last minute. In this case, my hope is that because they're doing the actual wedding now, New Year's Eve that were New Year's Day. I forget which it was New Year's Eve. Um, that would, uh, you're still kind of within that year of when plane tickets could get rebooked. Things like that. Um, I think given the date of the cancellation, likely any travel plans that had been made and we're getting canceled or rearranged probably fall under that covid coverage, You know, that sort of thing. But, yeah, I don't have so much of a problem with that under these very, very, very unprecedented circumstances.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't noticed the date. Of course, that was a period of time where things were accelerating so much. I guess the thing that had jumped into my mind was that

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Speaker 1: at this particular moment, it can be hard to know what we're going to be dealing with. 1 to 3 months out. I know people are wrestling with decisions. What do I do about my wedding at the start of August? What do I do about my wedding in September or July, and does it matter? September. Starting to be riskier is July. Maybe maybe a sooner date is less risky at this point.

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Speaker 2: So we go back to the original advice that we've talked about, which is communicate to your guests. So let them know that you've got X number of dates. And maybe it's two or three different check ins, depending on how far out your wedding is, where you're going to let guests know for sure. By.

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Speaker 2: So, for instance, one of my nearest and dearest is getting married this year in July, and she

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Speaker 2: let everybody know that two weeks before the actual wedding date at the end of July was when she was required by every like all the vendors and the everybody to decide, determine how many people were going to be there and if this was really happening.

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Speaker 2: So she said she would keep us all updated, especially if anything got canceled earlier,

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Speaker 2: but that for the most part, her wedding at the end of July is on, and you'll find out two weeks before if for some reason it's not. And I think that's kind of the best anybody can do right now, because nobody knows how reopenings are going to go. Nobody knows. You know what these little wave let's or the next wave. Bigger waves

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Speaker 2: of this might be. And so it's a lot of patients, and it's a lot of communication that's going to help weddings make it through this time.

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Speaker 1: I love that recipe. Patients and communication

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Speaker 2: dashes and pinches only. I think this time we're using probably shovels and bulldozers. But yeah,

00:27:04

Speaker 1: socially and temporarily distant. Wedding guest. We really appreciated your question and hope this answer helps and that you get to enjoy celebrating on the new year.

00:27:14

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:27:15

Speaker 1: Uh huh.

00:27:22

Speaker 1: My life.

00:27:28

Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Bombarded with Bells,

00:27:31

Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Daniel. My husband is a doctor who works late evening shifts, and he therefore tends to sleep until early afternoon.

00:27:40

Speaker 2: The type of work he does requires consecutive hours of uninterrupted, deep concentration, so it's important for him that he gets enough sleep to work effectively to provide care to his patients.

00:27:53

Speaker 2: Since his sleep and wake schedule is different than the average person, we always sleep with our windows closed in our urban setting, even in spring and summer in order to avoid daytime noises from creeping into our bedroom. We also wear earplugs and use a white noise machine. This system has worked well for us,

00:28:11

Speaker 2: except on Sunday mornings

00:28:13

Speaker 2: when the sound of church bells somehow penetrates through the ear plugs. Even though we're atheists, we can appreciate the long tradition the churches have of ringing their bells on Sunday mornings.

00:28:26

Speaker 2: However, during this global coronavirus pandemic,

00:28:30

Speaker 2: churches around the world have begun to ring their bells multiple times each day in solidarity to recognize those suffering with the virus, those who have sadly succumbed to the virus and first responders.

00:28:44

Speaker 2: Although we certainly sympathize with and support those who have been directly and negatively affected by the virus as well as the first responders, we can't help but wonder why there need to be multiple audible daily tributes around the world that ironically result in interrupting the precious sleep for night shift healthcare workers.

00:29:05

Speaker 2: What would you do if you were in our shoes? Thanks for your input. Sincerely anonymous.

00:29:12

Speaker 1: I am such a foul human. When I first wake up, I can't even imagine the grump

00:29:19

Speaker 1: that would come

00:29:20

Speaker 2: here first just so you all know the other side of Dan Post

00:29:24

Speaker 1: setting? Uh, some of my worst moments are right after I wake up. What? I don't want to be woken up. Absolutely,

00:29:32

Speaker 1: Absolutely.

00:29:33

Speaker 2: I almost want to drag pooch in here and be like, pooch dish the dirt.

00:29:37

Speaker 1: We don't have to go any further back than this morning.

00:29:40

Speaker 1: Um, Aria was in the kitchen crying, and I woke up to the sound of the crying and I came downstairs and pooch was unbelievable. I can't even tell you. There's, like

00:29:49

Speaker 1: the coffee, the hot coffee sitting on the counter. I forget she was running and she just hung the

00:29:54

Speaker 2: bird feeder. Those are wondering that's the only way to dance. Heart is the

00:29:58

Speaker 1: hot coffee. But I'll tell you, like she I think she was outside. She just like like, like, stepped out on the porch to hang the bird feeder up on the porch and Aria was in the kitchen. I mean, we're talking not a big deal here, but the cries have been what woke me up. And I was like, What is this a crying alarm clock? Didn't pooches like Oh no, Did I just bad, bad husband. Not a good mood. Not the first thing to say in the morning. Not appreciative, Totally beautiful. Find a Why

00:30:26

Speaker 2: is our child crying? Why

00:30:30

Speaker 1: are these bells ringing? I and I see in the question the same work that I'm doing in that moment in the morning of saying, Listen, I I appreciate the role that these churches play in their community. I appreciate the symbol of standing in solidarity with the people that are working so hard to get us all through this,

00:30:52

Speaker 1: and I'm in some ways part of that. I've got an awkward schedule and I'm really working hard to

00:31:00

Speaker 1: be my best for other people, and this makes it harder. So

00:31:04

Speaker 1: I think there's just a natural point of frustration here, and I don't know how much there is that you can do about it.

00:31:11

Speaker 2: I had the first line in the in the notes to this question of what would I do? You mean besides cursing everything I can imagine privately in my own home?

00:31:21

Speaker 2: Um, it's It is one of those things where it can be really frustrating, but our listener is very obviously looking at the greater impacts of this, you know, beyond just how it's impacting them, but also still at looking at that, questioning whether it is the right thing for

00:31:39

Speaker 2: someone to be doing anything, whether it's a private person or whether it's an organization.

00:31:44

Speaker 2: And I think I've actually got to say that as much as I think that this is about solidarity and it's about community during a really difficult time.

00:31:53

Speaker 2: It's a question that I think this listener should feel confident, I think broaching with the church, not in a your terrible for doing this, not in a Don't you see how this is affecting a group of people you're not recognizing or thinking about or that you're trying to honor. But really, you're just keeping them awake. I think if you can leave those kind of attitudes out of your outreach to the church

00:32:16

Speaker 2: and instead presented to them as simply, uh, you know, notice that you all are are ringing your bells more throughout the day. We're assuming that this is to cheer. People's spirits was wondering if you would take into consideration

00:32:31

Speaker 2: this and present your you know, your state of So a lot of these health care workers are working overnight shifts.

00:32:38

Speaker 2: Possibly sticking to just the celebration at 7 p.m. Would be a really great way to still honor them, but not,

00:32:45

Speaker 2: you know, not interrupt people who are sleeping. I don't think you probably have to go and add all the other types of citizens who might also be affected, as you all have heard me say on the show. Mothers of newborns, mothers of newborns, mothers of newborns. And that's because I have a newborn and a mother of a newborn in my life.

00:33:04

Speaker 2: But I think it's worth crafting that really generous letter

00:33:10

Speaker 2: not dissimilar from what you've written to us. But that just simply says, totally understand if you're not able to do anything about this or if you carry on with what you're doing. But I just wanted you to be able to hear the differing perspectives from the community.

00:33:24

Speaker 1: I like that idea. I like that tone. While

00:33:27

Speaker 1: I don't know if you could expect a response or eat them to do the thing you're asking if there are other similar letters. If there are other people feeling similarly, I don't imagine it would take many of those sorts of communications to stack up before you really got someone thinking on the other end.

00:33:44

Speaker 2: I think, too, that when you deliver that letter just making sure that somewhere in it there is the recognition that they might they might not acquiesce. You know what I mean? And I think that's always

00:33:56

Speaker 2: It's always nice, and I think it does put you in a position of truly just wanting to be heard for a moment. You know what I mean? And I think that that's that can often feel like Okay, at least I've reached out. And at least I've let them know that there are different types of people in the community that this impacts

00:34:13

Speaker 1: anonymous. We hope this helps and we hope that you're able to get a good night's sleep

00:34:17

Speaker 1: or days sleep moving forward I'm bells are ringing for you and for me sweet notes of minutes We spent happily here by your side My heart seems to sing while another chime bells ring

00:34:33

Speaker 1: China does drinking My heart is singing the whispering darling For now, the chime those ring

00:34:48

Speaker 1: Mhm

00:34:49

Speaker 1: Mm.

00:34:50

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to Awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post install on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette.

00:35:13

Speaker 1: Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:35:19

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:35:21

Speaker 1: mhm.

00:35:21

Speaker 2: If you love awesome etiquette and we sincerely hope you do, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

00:35:34

Speaker 2: You'll get an ADS free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air.

00:35:45

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. We first hear from summer about episode number 2 94. No, thank you. Notes.

00:35:57

Speaker 2: Summer begins.

00:35:58

Speaker 2: I had a comment on the question about the host of a baby shower who wanted to know if she should have sent thank you notes since the new mom said on Facebook that she wasn't going to send them.

00:36:08

Speaker 2: I had a friend get married a couple of years ago, and her maid of honor actually wrote and sent thank you notes for the bride while she was off on her honeymoon. I thought this was such an interesting and sweet thing for a guest of honor for which the event is a busy time, such as a new baby or new marriage.

00:36:28

Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing Wonderful and fresh Takes on etiquette Summer

00:36:32

Speaker 1: Summer. I so appreciate that this landed well with you. Generally speaking, it is really important to write your own thank you notes for things. The expression of gratitude connecting to the person who is the recipient of the thing being thanked for is it's pretty fundamentally important to

00:36:52

Speaker 1: issuing a thanks Well,

00:36:53

Speaker 1: there is one instance where we make some allowances for there being some collective work. Some group work on acknowledgements, and that's around the replies to condolence cards.

00:37:05

Speaker 1: That is one instance where sometimes it can be really difficult for someone to just

00:37:10

Speaker 1: muster themselves to do that task and providing them with support and assistance to get through that can be really helpful. It's appropriate, and you do your best to continue to engage that person in a way that they can really experience the benefit of participating in that reply.

00:37:30

Speaker 1: But there is some latitude in that

00:37:32

Speaker 1: instance that generally there isn't around showers and

00:37:37

Speaker 2: weddings. Yeah, absolutely. And you Sometimes you're right, Dan. You sometimes also do see this for when there was a particularly difficult delivery or something like that. And Mom is really recovering after in the hospital. You sometimes see a thank you on behalf of,

00:37:51

Speaker 2: but typically you also later on see the individual, the guest of honor reach out once they are capable of doing so

00:37:59

Speaker 2: with those Thank you so mostly what we loved about your feedback Summer was your positive and generous attitude. So thanks so much for sharing and encouraging others to feel the same.

00:38:11

Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com, or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 k i n D That's 8028585463

00:38:27

Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and this week we're jumping back into Emily Post 1922 edition of Etiquette to look at the section on afternoon teas.

00:38:39

Speaker 1: For those of you who are curious, this would be pages 1 69 and 70 on the replica edition.

00:38:44

Speaker 2: What I really love about this section is that it gets at some of those slightly awkward conversations that you might have to engage with. This is like small talk on a legit level that Emily's advising on during an afternoon tea.

00:38:59

Speaker 2: The section is titled Do Come In for a Cup of Tea, and it's under a larger section of afternoon teas without dancing. Because I know all of you tend your afternoon teas with dancing.

00:39:11

Speaker 1: I know

00:39:14

Speaker 2: Dan Dan actually does have dancing tea parties regularly in his home.

00:39:19

Speaker 2: So Dan, here are things to consider. But I love sort of the idea of the old fashioned entertaining that this little section portrayed. So here we go. Afternoon parties do come in for a cup of tea

00:39:33

Speaker 2: this is best society's favorite form of invitation. It is used on nearly every occasion where there is to be music or a distinguished visitor, or whether a hostess has merely an inclination to see her friends,

00:39:49

Speaker 2: she writes on her personal visiting card. Do come in on Friday for a cup of tea and here Elwin play or Farris Sing, or to meet Senator West or Lady X or even more informally, I have not seen you for so long.

00:40:07

Speaker 2: Invitations to a T of this description are never general.

00:40:12

Speaker 2: A host asks, either none but close friends or at most, her dining list. Sometimes this sort of A T is so small that she sits behind her own tea table exactly as she does every afternoon.

00:40:29

Speaker 2: But if the tea is of any size from 20 upwards, the table is set in the dining room and to intimate friends of the hostess, pour tea at one end and chocolate at the other.

00:40:42

Speaker 2: The ladies who poor are always especially invited beforehand and always wear afternoon dresses with hats, of course, as distinguished from the street clothes of the other guests.

00:40:55

Speaker 2: As soon as a hostess decides to give a t. She select two friends for this duty who are, in her opinion, decorative in appearance and also who this is very important

00:41:07

Speaker 2: can be counted on for gracious manners to everyone under all circumstances.

00:41:15

Speaker 2: It does not matter if a guest going into the dining room for a cup of tea or chocolate does not know the deputy hostesses who are pouring.

00:41:24

Speaker 2: It is perfectly correct for a stranger to say, May I have a cup of tea?

00:41:30

Speaker 2: The one pouring should answer very responsively. Certainly. How do you like it, strong or weak? If the latter, she delusions it with hot water and again watching for the guests. Negative or approval adds cream or lemon or sugar

00:41:46

Speaker 2: or preferring chocolate. The guest perhaps goes to the other end of the table and asks for a cup of chocolate. The table hostess at that end also says certainly, and pours out chocolate

00:41:58

Speaker 2: if she is surrounded with people. She smiles as she hands it out, and that is all.

00:42:04

Speaker 2: But if she is unoccupied and her momentary guest by courtesy is alone, it is Mir ist good manners on her part to make a few pleasant remarks. Very likely. When asked for chocolate, she says. How nice of you. I have been feeling very neglected at my end. Everyone seems to prefer tea.

00:42:24

Speaker 2: Where upon the guest ventures that people are afraid of chocolate because it is so fattening or so hot

00:42:30

Speaker 2: after an observation or two about the weather or the beauty of the China, or how good the little cakes look or the sandwiches taste, the guest finishes her chocolate. If the table hostess is still unoccupied, the guest smiles and slightly nods goodbye.

00:42:46

Speaker 2: But if the other's attention has been called upon by someone else, she who has finished her chocolate leaves unnoticed. Essentially, that is our first example of ghosting.

00:42:59

Speaker 1: Okay, so I want to go to this D party and I want chocolate, please. Is there chocolate at all the tea parties? Because I want the chocolate?

00:43:07

Speaker 2: So when I was a kid, my mom used to throw a big uh, It was called a cookie party at Christmas time, and it was just like it was very much so. Like this.

00:43:18

Speaker 2: Um, two of her best friends would help serve things. All the little girls would be in dresses, you know, there was a lot of very pleasant conversation. It sounds ridiculously formal. It was way fun, like it was so much fun.

00:43:30

Speaker 1: I can see Tricia doing this

00:43:31

Speaker 2: like, yeah,

00:43:32

Speaker 1: absolutely. See it

00:43:33

Speaker 2: and you would have, like, Mum had special teapots for all the tea. And then I remember how glorious it was to have our hot chocolate poured out of this big, tall silver. Um, I guess it's a tall,

00:43:45

Speaker 2: tall teapot, but it almost seems like some kind of like coffee thing. Instead, it's not. It's actually T, but it's very tall.

00:43:52

Speaker 2: And it's just so awesome and cool and different and special and fun. And I could totally see you and Paige throwing something like this.

00:43:59

Speaker 1: We have an etiquette princess storybook. Sara Elizabeth throws a tea party. That's an absolute favorite. And I know there are hints and shades of this all coming into my life. No question. Uh,

00:44:13

Speaker 1: thank you, Emily Post. Thank you, Lizzie Post. For taking us back in time to join Emily for a tea party. That was so much fun.

00:44:21

Speaker 2: Well, and isn't it interesting, Dan, things like, um, she's literally describing small talk right here.

00:44:27

Speaker 2: She's describing the ways in which you the deputy hostess, By the way, That's a term we're totally bringing back. Deputy hostess, as opposed to co host I Love deputy Hostess,

00:44:37

Speaker 2: but I love that. She's kind of describing how you would talk to this person. And yes, of course, if the person is busy, you just give a nod and walk away. You know, it's like,

00:44:46

Speaker 1: Oh, everyone loves T today. Thank you for joining

00:44:49

Speaker 2: me down here, chocolate and oh, I can imagine people are just worried about their weight. Like, you know, it's like

00:44:56

Speaker 2: it just it cracks me up thinking about what passed for acceptable small talk. You know, nowadays, we probably wouldn't comment on something being fattening, or you might only comment on that if you really knew the person who was serving the tea. I also liked the description that the ladies who are serving the teas are probably going to be dressed a little bit differently to indicate that they are deputy hostesses.

00:45:17

Speaker 2: Little things like that, I just I think it's delicious, and I love our great great Grandma for for putting details in, well,

00:45:26

Speaker 1: little reminder to our current writer. Keep those details Come in.

00:45:30

Speaker 2: I'm

00:45:32

Speaker 1: so, looking forward to tea parties in the 20th edition to Barbara knows the girls are fearful because they have never attended a tea before.

00:45:42

Speaker 1: Actually, there is nothing to be afraid of.

00:45:46

Speaker 1: The girls are enjoying themselves. Their fears are gone.

00:45:49

Speaker 1: They can look forward with pleasure to other parties.

00:45:53

Speaker 1: Each of the girls has learned for herself the real meaning of etiquette.

00:46:05

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:46:06

Speaker 1: we like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world. And that can come in so many forms. Today we hear from Sophie,

00:46:16

Speaker 1: Hello, Lizzie and Dan. This past weekend, I attended my first virtual baby shower. I have an etiquette salute for the organizers and parents to be

00:46:26

Speaker 1: recognizing. The gifts are an important part of baby showers, and most attendees would normally expect gifts to be opened alive. I was unsure how the parents to be would open gifts in front of 60 plus guests at the zoom shower

00:46:40

Speaker 1: instead of opening gifts. One by one, the parents to be gave attendees a video tour of the baby's future nursery, highlighting gifts they received and showing everyone how their gift fit into the baby's future.

00:46:52

Speaker 1: They gave us a peek into the closet where many gifts were hanging, showed us the big ticket items and open drawers full of supplies.

00:46:59

Speaker 1: They also listed some of the flowers, meals and other parents supported items they've received.

00:47:05

Speaker 1: The way they went about this did not single out attendees who did or did not give gifts of varying cost. And it also made me feel appreciated knowing that my gift had been stuck in the mail longer than expected.

00:47:16

Speaker 1: For parents expecting their first child in such difficult circumstances, they did an amazing job of honoring their guests and making us feel close to the baby. Sophie, Toronto, Canada

00:47:28

Speaker 2: I love this idea, Sophie. We're putting it in the 20th edition. Sophie, this is a great idea. Awesome. It's so much better than sitting there and opening gifts in front of people

00:47:40

Speaker 2: and, like I don't want to mix that. I think for some folks, that is really fun. I'm one of those people I love the surprise of seeing something get open. I cannot sit around a wrapped package to save my life,

00:47:51

Speaker 2: but I love like it's got to be unwrapped. I got to see what's in there. I love this. I love showing people where the things are, what meals have made it to us that really helped out. I mean, I love the fact that they're not just honoring the things that are the cute things that would display well on a camera. But they're showing you the closet full of clothes and the

00:48:11

Speaker 2: like. I said, the frozen meals and things like that that people are getting. I think this couple nailed it.

00:48:18

Speaker 1: It's a fun way to do a virtual shower that could otherwise become

00:48:24

Speaker 1: a little repetitive. Yeah, so what a nice visual picture to paint. How creative? Um yeah. Golf claps and applause from the Emily Post Institute.

00:48:36

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:48:37

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Thank you to everyone who sent us something and thank you to everyone who supports us on patreon. We so appreciate it.

00:48:47

Speaker 2: Please connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and co workers. And, of course, please share it on social media.

00:48:53

Speaker 1: You can send us your next question feedback or salute by email to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. by phone. You can leave us a message or text at 8 to 858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:49:06

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00:49:09

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00:49:16

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00:49:23

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00:49:31

Speaker 1: rankings. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine and assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks, Kris and

00:49:36

Speaker 2: Brigitte. Thanks. Kris and

00:49:37

Speaker 1: Brigitte.

00:49:44

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:49:47

Speaker 1: Mm hmm.