Episode 307 - Your Team

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how you social

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Speaker 1: watch, how busy host and damn posts actors hosting.

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Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, really friendliness on Welcome Toe awesome etiquette,

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Speaker 2: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and

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Speaker 1: honesty. On today's show, we take your questions on keeping a tidy lawn, disagreeing respectfully carpool conundrums and carefully offering your support for

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question is about higher etiquette in the Age of Cove in 19 plus

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Speaker 1: your most excellent feedback and it gets salute and the next post gripped in our Siris on conducting a very basic self image assessment.

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Speaker 1: All

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Speaker 2: that's coming up

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Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and Martha's Vineyard and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lizzy Post

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Speaker 1: and I'm Dan Post sending Good Morning, Lizzie Boast,

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Speaker 2: Good morning. It is really fun to be calling you this morning from Martha's Vineyard and seeing a lovely ocean view in my makeshift set up the office down here at my mom's family's summer place.

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Speaker 1: I'm not bitter. I'm not angry at you for

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Speaker 2: anything

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Speaker 2: I did. I did go down, actually to Fuller Street Beach. I tried to do it when you and I were trying to facetime Teoh two days ago and I was like, Oh, I know I'll go into town and I'll get service. And then I'll face time Dan from Fuller Street Beach. And I can even show him the Emily Post houses I go by and he know with somebody else driving my car.

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Speaker 2: I mean, pulling over totally of respectfully, No, I

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Speaker 1: would I would pull over to

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Speaker 2: show you the garden. But I did go. I couldn't get you on the phone because the reception wasn't that good down there.

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Speaker 2: But it was really fun to go take a quick look at Effler Street Beach and

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Speaker 2: also to go by, go by the gardens

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Speaker 2: and see Emily's Gardens. It was it was it was both, like, really wonderful to see them, And it does make me really sad. I miss I miss being in that house they missed. I miss seeing the gardens what they were when we were kids, and I know that's just like holding onto history and not letting things move forward, but like there was a part of me that even though I actually we know the woman who gardens that garden now and there was a guy across the street, he said, that gardens taken care of by the best Gardner on the entire island. It was really cool to hear that, because Jenna is really amazing and like and she's She used to be up in Vermont and worked for my parents. And so it was cool to then see her now taking care of the Emily Post Gardens.

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Speaker 2: But the the dahlias were so short. They like this, like grown yet, and the garden is of wood shorter and Liam, the morning glories that go up the side of the living room

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Speaker 2: that kind of are at the end of the garden as you're looking down down through it. They haven't like grown and spread yet, and so they're not Upton doing that thing. Oh, that is beautiful, like I always think of them like ballerina flowers of

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Speaker 1: twining up around the shutters and three

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Speaker 2: framing window, and that's it's kind of so it's kind of it reminded me a lot of

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Speaker 2: if you ever went down to our house when you were a kid there in June. And the garden yet hadn't like, like, really bloomed and busted out the way it is by August. You know,

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Speaker 2: it reminded me of that where it was like, Oh, everything's, like, short like that,

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Speaker 2: Um, but it's it's really tidy. It's really well kept. I think Emily would be really happy. I'm sure she is really happy to see a growing on day put this cool per gola out in the back. But anyway, I did. I did as you asked, and I went down, and I got a little inspiration there. But I was sad I couldn't connect

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Speaker 1: with you when I was actually, I'm delighted that you get a gold star. You completed your homework. We'll see at the post script whether everyone completed their homework this week or not, but definitely did your job. Well done.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Um, but yeah. No, I'm I'm down here on the vineyard and writing. Um I can't tell you how good it has been for me. Um, living in a house alone in Vermont, coming down and living with my parents for a couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: toe actually right and get things going and where we were gonna pot up in Vermont together. So we felt safe about doing this and because it's unreal to have someone else cook and decide dinner for you

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Speaker 2: like thistle is amazing. This whole like being around other people having other people in your household with you.

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Speaker 2: I like it. I like it a lot. I miss it. It's the

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Speaker 1: little things I'm gonna text your parents and tell them to keep bringing you plates of food at the computer.

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Speaker 2: They don't actually do that.

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Speaker 2: It's not quite that him waited on hand and foot, but they it is. It is unreal to just be like, Oh my gosh like this. They made this like, beautiful pasta dinner and it was just so like we all ate just huge plate Fels of this homemade pasta and it was like a really simple sauce. But it was just like

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Speaker 2: it was so wonderful. It was so wonderful.

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Speaker 2: I have been floored how much room it leaves in my brain to be getting the work done to not have to think about certain other things, like just even things like tidying up. It just happens like and I take care of my own stuff, but like they take care of their stuff, too. And so things move around the house without me or Sonny doing it. And it's really it's been fascinating to kind of be with other people again in the say,

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Speaker 1: the evidence of human company.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,

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Speaker 2: guys, you might want to check in with me like a month down there. I'd like I know isolation might be getting to me

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Speaker 2: that it's only been six

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Speaker 1: months. I don't know what you're complaining about.

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Speaker 2: Funny things, like I see people like when I met my home when I'm in my home like you see your neighbors, you know, like I see them regularly. I have really good neighborhood relationships, my friends who come by, but it is very different, living with other people again and very grateful. E.

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Speaker 1: I love the spirit, and I love that this trip is working out. I know something you were really looking forward to, and I've seen the work product flowing my way, but it's good to get the

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Speaker 1: the human connection t here that you're feeling good about it too

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Speaker 2: well cause before we get to some questions, I did just want to take a minute to say Thank you, Teoh. Yesterday I got offer phone calls So jazz because audience Dan, uh, listened while I read some of the 20th edition of Emily Post etiquette that I'm working on to him, and he gave really positive good feedback, which was great, because I'm pretty sure go off there.

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Speaker 2: But it's been it's been a really fun writing process to get into, and so it was just really encouraging toe. Have you kind of like there for me cheering me on with it and liking what what I was putting out there? And it's been tough. This is a big book, and it felt really good to feel like I'm off to a start that that I can work with.

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Speaker 1: This is not me tryingto minimize your thanks. I appreciate it. Receive it and say

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Speaker 1: it was a treat for me to you sound like you when you read the book. And to me, that's a really good indication that you're finding a voice that's going toe work. I know you know the material. I know you know the content. If you feel like you as you talk about it, I think that we're gonna be in really good shape. So it was. It was a treat for me to hear it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this time I feel like meat channeling Emily, as opposed to hire etiquette where it felt like

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Speaker 2: me, letting everyone in a bit to a part of my world had never talked about before on. And so it was. It's kind of fun that it's a little bit different this time around, but thank you very much and thank you audience for indulging me in that. Oh, you're not

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Speaker 1: getting out of this section that easily like us.

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Speaker 2: So I can't just let us get to some questions. No, no, no, no, no. People at

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Speaker 1: the show have heard you read in your Emily voice. Whenever you crack out the 22 addition, there comes this slight affectation to your English on, and

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it slight. It's pretty heavy.

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 1: like it. It's not that the whole new book is is read in that tone, but

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Speaker 1: I would really like you to share some of the writing from this book as it's happening here. on the show, and I know that's

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Speaker 2: a big ask. It's a bit of a risk, and I don't even know we're

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Speaker 1: allowed to do it. But

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Speaker 1: I started toe. Imagine to myself how nice it would be for our audience to have the experience that I got to have a little earlier this week.

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Speaker 2: We'll tell you what we'll make you deal with you if you pick the sections that you think are worthy for our audience to hear. I will read one or two of them in an upcoming

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Speaker 1: post script segment. Has that that's a deal.

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Speaker 2: Okay, cool. Okay, with that out of the way. Hopefully, Daniel, forget about it. And let's get to some question.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions, and you can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 80 to 858 k I and D. That's eight or 28585463

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Speaker 2: You can also find us on Social media on Twitter were at Emily Post inst on instagram. We're at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with any social media post so that we know you want your

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Speaker 1: question on the show.

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Speaker 1: Our first question this week has to do with being a neat neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Dear Lizzie and Daniel. I've always felt that cleanliness was a sign of respect for both oneself and others. My mother, on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: really doesn't

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Speaker 1: understand that. Then I'm struggling to get her to understand why this matters. My mother lives in a beautiful, well maintained neighborhood, but her lawn is often sloppy and overgrown.

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Speaker 1: I've mentioned more than once that she needs to get it taken care of on a more regular basis out of respect for her neighbors. But she seems to take it as a personal attack. What would you say to her? Thanks. Best wishes em

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Speaker 2: O. M. There's a lot of things I want to say, but I want to address both of you because I think that, um, on the one hand, if this isn't a residence that you share with your mother, I think I could understand why she feels personally attacked when you're telling her that her house looks like the sloppiest on the street There's also a thought out in the world that doesn't suggest that messiness equates to disrespect. And I think there are lines where that could be drawn. And I think that when we start talking about a neighborhood and places people drive through regular things like I think that that, you know, we get two questions and some of that. But how other people take care of and present themselves is something that typically an etiquette We really try to let the individual lead with. And I think my suggestion. And Dan, you can tell me if I'm I'm wrong, but might be m toe actually make it more personal and about you so that it feels less about her.

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Speaker 2: And I might flip my approach and say, Boy mom to me, I really I really value how wonderful it feels when I pull up to my house and I see my lawn mowed and my, this and my that it It makes me feel so like ready and welcoming to the neighborhood to talk about some of the positives that you have about it. My sister won me over with this. I'm a messy person. Em I'm a messy person by nature, and my sister really won me over on the making your bed daily. And it's become something that I covet. And I know other listeners have said, Oh, no, no, no, no messy bed is the thing that makes me feel wonderful every day. But for my sister, it was the phrase messy bed, messy head. And during a time where I was struggling, I used that to just help me feel like I had one thing that I took care of for myself. That was really lovely. And for me, that was climbing into that fresh made bed.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny how much it was her expressing it from her perspective and what it had done for her to make her feel good. That let me jump on board as opposed to having her say to me, Oh my gosh, Lizzie,

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Speaker 2: you know, you would just be better and you would be more respectful if you made your bed every day. I mean, I know nobody sees it, but it would be better, and that felt like judgment. But hearing her perspective and hearing how it how it worked for her made me want to try it for myself.

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Speaker 1: What I love about that idea is it involves a conversation that's quite personal,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways I think that's the only way to have this conversation. Well, because, as you pointed out, on a superficial level on that sort of exterior of our social expectations,

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Speaker 1: you're right. We don't necessarily comment on people's appearance or the appearance of someone's home, and I think those two are parallel ideas that we could definitely equate here.

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Speaker 1: And at the same time, it's important

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Speaker 1: for the people that were close to to get good feedback and information about how we appear to others. So having those conversations is important. How you have them is also incredibly important. And

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Speaker 1: again, I really like this very personal approach that you're taking, Lizzy, where you're talking about from your perspective, how you see it, how it makes you feel, and you're not calling on them to take action or calling them out on actions that they haven't taken and that it's a cool, subtle line to walk in there, a couple approaches that could achieve it. But you're getting to that place where you're not embarrassing or shaming someone for what they've done. You're not prescribing behaviour for them moving

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Speaker 2: right? You're not like educating.

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Speaker 2: And

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you kind of are you. You're providing information about how other people might perceive it. And also

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Speaker 1: you're giving some context and you're you're right. Neighborhoods are shared spaces. So while your home is potentially, your castle is a very private personal space. How we navigate where that crosses into our participation in that larger neighborhood is an important social question.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. And there are some some things to consider. Some people don't mow their lawns, you know, to help insect populations. Other people think it really needs to be done to control insect populations and rodent populations and things like that. Some people like that kind of freer. I don't want to say messier, but just kind of more wild. Look, a little garden or to a yard, Yeah, of a meadow of those kinds of things. And it's it's hard to know without knowing this exact situation up close and personal, you know exactly what the right thing to do would be. But it is important for us to open up our perspectives just a little bit not saying that That doesn't mean, you know, taking care of and keeping a A.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think maybe a welcoming appearance is a good way to frame it, as opposed to a neat and tidy appearance, but a welcoming appearance and approachable appearance to me that

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Speaker 1: ideas are really

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Speaker 1: it's an important one. It's an opportunity to transition to some really practical advice, which is People do view lawns differently for someone who takes great pride in his lawn. And thanks a lot of it, whether I set my mowing decade an inch and a half two inches or 2.5.

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Speaker 1: But

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Speaker 1: I think one way to talk with your mother about is to talk about aesthetics, make it a more interesting conversation. What is a looking field for her home that she would be invested in? I could get behind, and those metal lawns can be beautiful. Sometimes it involves

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Speaker 1: trimming the edges with a weed wacker so that the shadow looks maintained and looks like a like that. You're presenting something. This is a wild flower and bees space, but it looks can't,

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Speaker 1: uh,

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Speaker 2: would you offer to help? I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely would. That's the other side of practical thought is that that conversation about what you might want and what you would aspire to kid can lead you into an opportunity to say, I'd love to help out with that. Or I'd love to help you find

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Speaker 1: someone in the neighborhood who cares for Juanes or could help out with this. And that's another angle of approach that I think is really important to keep in mind whenever you raise a problem or a difficulty. If you can also think about being part of the solution, it's a great way toe build, standing and show respect in that conversation.

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Speaker 2: We really hope that this helps. And who knows, maybe taking care of the lawn and the look of the house can be something that you and your mom end of bonding over.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is beginning debate, quite a family project.

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Speaker 2: It certainly

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Speaker 1: is. Of course, this is more than a story of wallpaper and slipcovered.

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Speaker 1: It's a story of improvements in the tailor's themselves,

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Speaker 1: where they are a far happier and better family since they learned to share the work at home.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Danno, our next question is titled Courteous Conflict,

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Speaker 2: Dear Dan and Lizzie. I love, love, love your podcast. I have been listening to you for almost a year now, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that my behavior has changed for the better. Thank you for pushing me to be more compassionate. On this note. I find myself dealing with a pretty serious problem. My husband and I were invited to a social distancing gathering at Let's Call him Mr X's House. Mr. X was a gracious host and set a beautiful backyard dinner for us with delicious food, candles and wine. One guest, let's call him Mr G, started to voice his opinions on the black lives matter movement that were insensitive and incendiary towards the black community. I believe it's important to voice that we were all white people at this gathering.

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Speaker 2: My unwavering belief is that, as Elie Weisel said, we must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.

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Speaker 2: As I feel very passionate about BLM and any injustices to any minorities, I felt the necessity to voice my concerns in my beliefs on the subject, trying as much as possible toe listen, state fax and talk with purpose and respect. Wow, sorry. It was just impressive reading that this tactic was not upheld by Mr G, saying that I was getting sucked into social media. And then we'll will excuse the language that came next. Lucky. He was rude, offensive and divisive. I chose at that moment to not react to fiercely out of respect for our host,

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Speaker 2: Dannon Lizzie. I tried my very best to keep things relatively calm, but ended up leaving the dinner very sad and frustrated. I have two questions as I was not in my home and keeping in mind the effort of our gracious host, Mr X, was I right to not push the matter considering the seriousness of the subject. Secondly, I'm now of the mind to keep. My distance is from someone who used to be a close friend, Mr. G

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Speaker 2: in this situation, do I a just stop being his friend as I cannot condone such insensitivity? Or be Do I try to communicate my frustration with him and try to have a healthy debate in a neutral environment?

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Speaker 2: Many thanks, Belief, verse, friendship.

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Speaker 1: Oh, boy, Belief First friendship. Thank you so much for this question. I am first of all really glad that the show has been useful for you. I'm glad that you found it. And I'm glad that you're participating. With a question like this,

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Speaker 1: you are describing a situation that is in some ways one of the

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Speaker 1: most difficult that I could imagine myself facing. I think that I would personally find this very, very difficult. And I want to applaud you for

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Speaker 1: the way that you handled yourself the way you conducted yourself that night. The number of things that you're trying to keep track of and sort through dealing with that is really difficult. Your role is a guest, your relationship to the host, your relationship to another guest, your relationship to what's actually being talked about, that you care, or so so so much about your relationship to the other guests who are a witness to this whole experience. There is a lot going on here, and it's so fraught, and I wouldn't want to start off by applauding you for making a good effort for saying what you thought was important for listening for trying to show respect to someone else and for your willingness to moderate your own behavior and the intensity of your own reaction in response to the situation or environment that you found yourself in not knowing exactly where you chose to draw the line in the moment. What the specific words were the tone of the conversation when you said to yourself, You know, this isn't going well. I'm gonna exit this conversation. It's hard to make an assessment about whether that was the right choice in that moment.

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Speaker 1: Looking at how you've approached this whole situation, how you're thinking about it, I trust that you probably made a good choice on. But if you didn't, you did the best you could at that time with the information that you were working with. And I also want to applaud the reflection that's following this, that you're thinking about emotionally, how it impacted you,

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Speaker 1: that you don't like that and that you're thinking about how you can control your own behaviors moving forward so you're not left with that feeling again, or that you're able to resolve it and transition. The last thing I want to say before I make some space for Lizzie to jumping,

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Speaker 2: Keep your is the

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Speaker 1: while. You started off in one of my least favorite situations. Ah, really awkward, difficult conversation about something that really matters with someone who's not a good interlocutor.

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Speaker 1: If you contract Szish in this to a situation where you're engaged in good discussion with someone who sees things very differently than you, that's one of my favorite things in life. And it happens so rarely. It's Ah, really rich opportunity. If you can do it well, it's really hard to do well, so those opportunities are fewer and further between that I would like. But I also like that you're thinking about that is one of the possible outcomes and

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Speaker 2: rightto have that healthy, neutral debate. You know, our sorry, healthy debate in a neutral environment,

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Speaker 1: absolutely, and with respect, where you can acknowledge someone else's

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Speaker 1: value as a person and have a real disagreement with, um, about a particular perspective. I I love to be able to interrogate that and work that out with someone, so

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Speaker 1: I want to head that direction. But there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of steps

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Speaker 2: yet. No, there are a lot of steps, and I think

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Speaker 2: in addressing your your second question to us,

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Speaker 2: I think that which was the one that was a do I just stopped being the friend or be Do I try and find that healthy debate in a neutral

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Speaker 2: environment to communicate my frustration with him? Um, I think that that's where I say, I think really hard because this is somebody I know about who they are and how likely that conversation is to go well. And I'm not saying don't have the conversation if you can't have it well

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Speaker 2: but I am saying really think about it. Um, I had I had this type of situation in A in a friendship, Um, and it's really hard. It was a friendship that had a lot of deep rooted meaning in my life, and yet this person had some views that really, really rattled me. And we got to the point twice in one year where we weren't speaking to each other for long periods of time, and we came out of the second version of that, and I said to him, I love you very much. There is nothing that can change all of the good things that I do see in you and in our friendship and the times that we've shared, there is just nothing that can change that.

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Speaker 2: But

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Speaker 2: it's very clear to me that there are topics that we don't see eye to eye on to such a degree that

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Speaker 2: when were in frequent contact, they become big problems between us and it's not healthy and it means we can't have a friendship.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm fine with us, kind of engaging in a way that allows us to celebrate some of the good history that we've had. But it has to be limited because otherwise it moves into these spaces that we just we don't see eye to eye, and no amount of either one of us trying to convince or educate or offer perspective to the other person has changed it over years. So I think we have to recognize that that's too big a divide for us to be hanging out regularly. And that's the that is the closest I have had to this type of situation going on and that is the I can. I can only offer you kind of honestly what I did in my own life right there. Um, but it was to try and have the conversation in a way that identified

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Speaker 2: sort of what our friendship is and that that that doesn't kind of have to be lost. We still went to concerts together in a time, but that it might not be as big a part of our future if this is really where we're at. And I think that, um, you can try to have the as you said healthy debate, I think that it is really hard to do, and I would prepare myself much in the ways that I think you handled yourself in your in the moment kind of sprung it on you debate version of it.

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Speaker 2: But I would think really hard for myself. How far am I willing to go? How far am I willing to push how far my willing to let my emotions go to feel like I'm in a healthy debate? And at what point does it start to not feel healthy That way, if you try to approach that conversation, you kind of have some benchmarks for yourself, and you can even say, You know,

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Speaker 2: I said I wasn't going to get to the point where I could feel my heart racing and my heart's racing, so I know I probably have to be the one to disengage right now. You know, I think things like that I'm in my head for this conversation. I'm breaking out that kind of mental strategy.

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Speaker 1: I think that's good advice, because and like you, I was thinking to myself that Option A or B are both valid, that depending on who this person is and how much energy you feel, you want to invest in it in your exactly this person was someone who were quite close with in this situation. Maybe there's more of a distance, and it's easier to let it go. That distance is gonna be the thing. Or you might say, you know, this is a rich opportunity. I'd love to see if I can If I can dig in and engage here in effect, some change, or at least

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Speaker 1: provide myself the opportunity to represent myself the way I'd like if we weren't in the environment where I'm not hosting and I don't know, e don't have enough control of the environment to really be comfortable engaging fully.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Dan for beliefs, first friendship. Take us away with something positive. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to offer a virtual hug here, and it's not just for the purpose of making everyone feel better. It's a thought that occurred to me as I was reading this question, which is Don't undersell the value of what you did that night. I don't think that it didn't have any impact because the person that you were speaking with didn't register and didn't treat you respectfully

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Speaker 2: because, you know that's really true and it reminds me of another point, and that's that. It's easy to feel like the offensive language.

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Speaker 2: The thing that you're upset about hearing is the biggest thing in the room because it's it's it's got shocked to it, you know what I mean? And especially when it's coming from some

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Speaker 2: from a friend you care about. Or maybe it's the first time you're hearing someone expressed that

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Speaker 2: type of viewpoint. It's important to remember, and I think this kind of ties on t your point that your viewpoint is Justus valid. And if you're in a situation where someone has has tossed this things sort of literally out on the table

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Speaker 2: and your host is not doing anything to redirect the conversation, um, I would say that you are equally is valid for tossing out yours and ah, it sounds like you did so in a way that you can feel respectful about. And I think that's one of those ways toe always take the higher road. Even when you choose to engage is to really try and conduct yourself in a manner that you feel,

00:29:06

Speaker 2: you know, like you could be re proud of. Um, but it is one of those things that I think I often have to remember in these tough moments, which is Wait a minute, Wait a minute. What I have to contribute is valid to, and I don't need to let the other thing be the biggest thing in the room. I'm big, too. I am big to yes, but a final thought to sort of end on is that it wouldn't be a bad idea to reach out to Mr X and say thank you, because you have stated how beautiful this spread was and how much effort went into this evening. And I think connecting

00:29:46

Speaker 2: the next day or later on, or even now, at this point in time to say, Boy, you know, I know the conversation kind of took a turn

00:29:55

Speaker 2: to the combative, but I just want to let you know The evening we had was so wonderful. And it was so clear how much effort you had put into it.

00:30:03

Speaker 2: You know, I hope I hope the conversation didn't ruin it for you, but I definitely look back on it fondly. I think so fondly, man. Obviously use your own language. I think that that would be a really good move to make in this type of situation. Belief

00:30:21

Speaker 1: first friendship. We hope that your beliefs lead the way too many strong friendships in the future, you might say are ideal are like headlights.

00:30:31

Speaker 1: They like the way ahead

00:30:33

Speaker 1: without them, way are lost.

00:30:36

Speaker 1: Unable to make decisions

00:30:38

Speaker 1: with them. Way have a good chance of success way Need clear, strong ideal.

00:30:49

Speaker 1: Our next question is about a carpool conundrum. Dear Lizzie and Daniel. I enjoy listening to your podcast. I appreciate the solutions who devise for people's problems, and I'm hoping you might have one for mine.

00:31:01

Speaker 1: I'm

00:31:02

Speaker 2: a high

00:31:02

Speaker 1: schooler, not a conventional etiquette podcast. Listener

00:31:05

Speaker 2: E.

00:31:06

Speaker 2: I am part

00:31:07

Speaker 1: of a soccer club that meets a little ways from where I live, So my parents have to drive me to and froing. Sometimes we organized carpools with my fellow teammates. Most times it is me, my parent and my teammates. Now I experience an unusual discomfort while deciding where in the car to sit. In these circumstances, whenever my teammates, parents transport me back and forth, my teammates always sit in the front and I in the back.

00:31:31

Speaker 1: This is fine with me, but if my parent is picking us up, I will sit in the back next to my teammate. I feel like this is more polite since sitting in the front somehow feels like I am shutting my teammates. Also, it is quite uncomfortable looking back at them to talk. As I'm writing this, it feels obvious that I should just sit in the back with my teammates. I guess the uncomfortable part of it all is that there is an empty passenger seat and my teammates are probably wondering why I am not sitting there. What is the polite ist thing to do in these exhausting carpool situations? Thank you, Lauren.

00:32:03

Speaker 2: Lauren, Thank you so much for writing in about this. This is actually funny.

00:32:08

Speaker 2: I had this happen and it taught me a little bit about a different culture. But it was the idea of who sat where, When you're car pooling that got it all going. I think you're right that typically you and your teammates sitting in the back together so that you can talk easily, chat easily. A lot of parents are really used to that.

00:32:28

Speaker 2: If it's not gonna be kind of a whole car discussion where the parent is involved a lot, I think you're right sitting in the best, not a big deal. That being said, I know what you mean that it kind of creates that feeling of like Mom or Dad is a taxi driver of parents is a taxi driver, chauffeur, chauffeur, like, you know, show for whatever whatever. We're, ah, lift uber driver, you know? But I think that as long as your parent is okay with that, I think it makes more sense for you to sit in the back with your friend. And then when they get out, you jump up to the front seat with your parent. And, of course, if there's like if you're bringing home to people, the other two could sit in the back. You sit up front with your parents and you do lean backwards, you know, turn around to talk to them or do your best to. You know, I

00:33:08

Speaker 1: don't know. You use the mirror to look at them or something

00:33:10

Speaker 2: like that. But that's what I see for this.

00:33:14

Speaker 2: Dan, if you'll indulge my running mouth for just a little longer. I had it happened where I was in a soccer group that I was running, and two of the guys in the group had just come over to America. One was from Jordan, and one was from Baghdad, and they were having trouble with the bus schedule, getting out to the soccer field to be in time and nothing nothing. Have to wait like another two hours, you know, alone at the soccer field before going home for the night. And so I said, Yeah, of course Will drive you guys. They were right on my way. It was really, really easy. I knew one of them, Ahmed better than I knew the other one, Omar. And so I figured Ahmed would sit up front with me, and instead Omar got up front with me, and it was really funny. But later, when Ahmed and I were chatting and, um, it actually wound up like spending Christmases and Thanksgivings with her family. Dan, you're you know, Ahmed. But it was really interesting. He said, Yeah, because Omar's older than me. I would never consider getting in the front seat before him. Like if he offers it to me, maybe, But like, no, I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever get in the front seat. He gets that respect in privilege.

00:34:24

Speaker 2: I like that

00:34:24

Speaker 1: idea of identifying the front seat as, ah, sort of a privileged position. Or like that's the best seat in the house. If we were equating it to which seat at the table you would give a guest of honor,

00:34:37

Speaker 2: I love how you like it, and I'm like, I don't really matter because it used to be a

00:34:41

Speaker 1: structure. It gives me a way to start thinking about it

00:34:45

Speaker 1: because the

00:34:46

Speaker 2: other

00:34:46

Speaker 1: structure that I was applying is the hosting structure and the answer that you came up with that you sort of settled on for yourself of moving from the back seat to the front seat so that you're engaged with the person that

00:35:00

Speaker 1: is the relationship that you're kind of prioritizing at that moment, and if there's a guest, the guest becomes that priority. So you you give your attention, your focus to them. You join them in the back seat,

00:35:13

Speaker 1: but that

00:35:15

Speaker 1: in the absence of that guest, then your attention shifts to the parent. They become the primary relationship concern, and you sit up front with them.

00:35:23

Speaker 1: The idea of offering that front seat to someone as a point of privilege and something comes up where you got those age discrepancies. We see that a lot. You know. The person is more elderly, gets the front seat easier seat to get in and out of

00:35:36

Speaker 1: the seat with the better view. But it more controls if you and your peers air all on the same level. I think you're hosting. Consideration starts to be the thing I'd be thinking about the most and as a host. The other thought I have is that taking the best seat as a host

00:35:54

Speaker 1: might feel a little awkward, and I can see how you might

00:35:57

Speaker 1: watch a prayer into someone else, you might think, think that would be appropriate or that you shouldn't take it in the absence of them doing it

00:36:05

Speaker 1: and that that creates a little bit of a difference in terms of how you see your friends approaching it. I wouldn't try to correct them, but I understand where this maybe like a little bit of dissonance is coming from that this is the way I would do it. But this

00:36:16

Speaker 2: isn't the way everyone treats me well and in that particular situation. So let's say Let's say that we're thinking of the passenger front seat as, like, a seat of honor, and you decide to give it to one of your teammates on a carpool home. Then you've got your teammate in the position of really riding up front with your parent, who they know, probably less well than they do you. And then they're in the position of having to turn around to face and talk to everyone in the back. And that starts to become to me, no longer a seat of

00:36:46

Speaker 2: would you call it privilege but instead a seat of work or like maybe even awkwardness. If you feel left out of the conversation in the back, you know

00:36:55

Speaker 1: I do, And as this gets more and more complicated or become more and more factors to think about

00:37:03

Speaker 2: more and more fun to like, geek out on it for a minute because it's like a delicious little question of etiquette.

00:37:09

Speaker 1: It is. And let's let's let's remove the exhaustion from it. I like that. Even being delightful

00:37:15

Speaker 1: as a host, Whatever choices you're making or considerations air coming into play, I think good communication is the good etiquette.

00:37:24

Speaker 2: Always. I'm gonna hop in the back because I'd

00:37:26

Speaker 1: so much rather be dogging with you than my mother. I talked to her all the time. Um is a totally

00:37:33

Speaker 2: reason Maybe that's not Consider it's a mall. Okay,

00:37:40

Speaker 1: allowances we take with those that air absolutely assist us aside

00:37:46

Speaker 1: something like that. The other thought I have is similar Communication could work if you were gonna let your guests comfort guide you as a host where you might offer the guests their choice. Say,

00:37:58

Speaker 1: uh, we're headed Would you like the front seat or

00:38:02

Speaker 1: hopping

00:38:03

Speaker 1: that my sample scripts are failing? Because But the idea of offering it to someone

00:38:08

Speaker 2: is because you haven't been carpooling with anybody in months.

00:38:13

Speaker 1: You're kind for giving me an out. We call you the master of Sample scripts for a reason. But I know that I know that you could make that offer. Particularly people who get carsick, who like to look around who

00:38:27

Speaker 1: might think of themselves as a friend of your parents as well as you. Because some parents

00:38:31

Speaker 2: are like that where it might be cooler. Fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:34

Speaker 1: So I think you'd be fine to make that offer. I think you're fine to do what you're doing. I think communication is every hosts. Best friend.

00:38:42

Speaker 2: Lauren, Thank you so much for writing in. Please, please, please write in with more questions. Ask your friends what their etiquette questions are. We love getting teenage perspectives

00:38:55

Speaker 2: and, of course, go team.

00:38:57

Speaker 2: I like that. I'd really be popular. Everybody want to be friends with me that what would be the most popular guy in school?

00:39:06

Speaker 1: Nothing like a flashy car to make a big impression.

00:39:09

Speaker 1: I don't one thing, June and Cheryl looks good driving

00:39:12

Speaker 2: with a car like that.

00:39:19

Speaker 2: Our next question is titled The Right Way to Reach Out. Dear Lizzie and Dan. I am friends with a woman through a community charity group in which we are both very active. She is several decades younger than me. However, when we see each other in person or virtually, which is several times a month at least were very friendly.

00:39:37

Speaker 2: At the end of a recent meeting, she said to everyone that in order to avoid confusion, she is just letting us know that her husband, Sam, not his real name, has transitioned and is now her wife, Samantha. Fortunately, everyone on the meeting took it well and was very respectful.

00:39:55

Speaker 2: My question is, despite her calm approach, this had to be a difficult period for her. As chairman of this group, I am not sure if I should just reach out to her, should she? If she's doing OK, she seems to be fine, but this has to be a major adjustment. Of course I want to show concern, but I don't want to impose on her private space or make this sound like this is a horrible thing and that I think she needs help or counselling or whatever.

00:40:21

Speaker 2: What's the line between kindness and intrusiveness? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you concerned or crowding, concerned or crowding. Thank you

00:40:31

Speaker 1: so much for the question. I think that you have

00:40:34

Speaker 1: done a good job of identifying the wine that you wanna walk here, that you want to be a supportive friend and at the same time in doing that, you don't wanna overstep and start toe across the line where your offers of support start to become intrusive, start to become something that gets in tow areas of people's lives that they don't want to share or,

00:40:58

Speaker 1: um, aren't comfortable sharing with you in particular. So

00:41:02

Speaker 1: my first piece of etiquette advice in a situation like this is to watch the other person for clues. You're talking about wanting to have a Tier three conversation, something that's the most intimate and personal that someone might talk about something that involves family or health or even finances. But in this case, we'll say family and health people's physical bodies

00:41:23

Speaker 1: in orderto have one of those conversations. You need to have some clue that you've got permission toe have it, and you've really got to get your antenna out to feel what that what form that permission comes in sometimes the permission to talk about someone's kids or just the pictures that they have displayed in their office. Other times, it's something that they mentioned or say.

00:41:42

Speaker 1: And while she's

00:41:44

Speaker 1: open the door for that conversation a little bit, she's

00:41:46

Speaker 2: also done a

00:41:47

Speaker 2: pretty

00:41:47

Speaker 1: good job. And we don't know exactly what she said, based on the question off. Putting some boundaries around that conversation by telling people that she's letting them know so that they don't feel caught off guard or surprised or confused. And to me, that also says So. I'm telling you about this. I'm telling you why I'm telling you about it, and that's going to give you that little bit of more information that you need

00:42:10

Speaker 1: to know why I'm bringing this up and toe make choices yourself.

00:42:13

Speaker 2: And I also think this is a situation where it can be really common to have not known anything was going on, that nobody brought it up or talked about it over the past few months. It signals to me that your friend really believed it was something private within her family and that that was something she wasn't telling to friends, or at least within this particular friendship. And I would use that as a clue, and I think you already are because you're thinking of things like, you know, Boy, would it be intrusive. Teoh. Even I identify that. This this announcement was made so I I do think your head is in the right space.

00:42:56

Speaker 2: You can always just e mean this person has shared news with you.

00:43:01

Speaker 2: As Dan said, the way that the news was shared, the language that at least we've been told it was shared in is fairly non inviting of questions and things like that. You might do a friend check in where you say something like, Hey, I knew you shared big news and I've always felt that we were close. And if it was a subject you wanted to talk to me about, I just wanted to let you know I'm I'm here for you. And that doesn't try to say, you know, you've gone through a hard time and I'm so concerned, or I had no idea this was going on for you. She's aware that you probably had no idea this was going on for her.

00:43:36

Speaker 2: And so I think just just simply acknowledging you shared big news. I've always felt that we were close and and I just wanted to let you know I'm here. that to me at least, might get you somewhere in terms of someone saying, Oh, thanks, I appreciate it and moving on. And that would be a real good indication that we're not really going to talk about that yet, or or that it's not topic that's going to enter into your friendship with this person. Or they might just start bringing things up more now that this is something that has been publicly shared. And you might actually find that that your friend lets you know more about what's been happening in their life now that they're starting to put out there. And there might be questions along the way. I have a friend whose sister transitioned later in life, and my friend got to a moment in a conversation with her sister, where she was telling a story from their past. And she realized she had to ask her sister, When we're addressing you before you transitioned, how do you prefer to be like, How do you prefer that we tell those stories and the sister said, you know, you know, you could describe me as male, then you can use my name from back then that's OK that's who I was to you then that's who I was to me then so you can see how it's a process. But the biggest take away, at least that I can find, is that it should always be something that you want

00:44:58

Speaker 2: to be directed by the individual experiencing it first and foremost. Um, and I think that's that's really important to remember

00:45:08

Speaker 2: concerned her crowding. I think that

00:45:10

Speaker 1: you're doing a good job of figuring out how to be a good ally to your friend in this moment, and you're asking the right questions in your approaching and a really thoughtful and considerate way.

00:45:22

Speaker 1: The final thought that I want to leave you with is that often times

00:45:27

Speaker 1: providing ah

00:45:29

Speaker 1: consistency or a normalcy in the world is a way to provide a lot of support for someone and a little bit like on an earlier question. I wanted to assure someone are make the comment that you may have accomplished more than you think. With the actions that you are taking, you might accomplish more than you think, by just consistently being a good friend and charity group leader and host for your friend. As she moves through this period in our life.

00:45:58

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the question. We hope our thoughts help and that you continue to have a great friendship with this person.

00:46:10

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers. Toe Awesome etiquette. Emily post dot com You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 80 to 8585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter were at Emily Post inst on instagram We're at Emily Post Institute, then on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome at it. Get with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:46:42

Speaker 2: Hey, friends, If you love awesome etiquette, we want to invite you to become a sustaining member. Please visit us at patri on dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get in ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing that you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.

00:47:08

Speaker 2: It's

00:47:08

Speaker 1: time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. And

00:47:14

Speaker 2: today we

00:47:14

Speaker 1: hear from Lucy about Episode 305

00:47:17

Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan Thank you for your most recent podcast episode number 305 That included a conversation with Big Friendship authors and Friedman and Ami. Not too. So it was two worlds colliding in the best of ways of the several. Go to podcast. I listen to each week awesome etiquette and call your girlfriend are in my top four, along with on being with Krista Tippett and the eponymous Lee named the Ezra Klein Show. Other podcast Sprinkle in here and there, but you are my gold standard. I am writing to let you know how much I enjoyed hearing some of my favorite hosts conversing with each other. It made me smile, and it also helped to clarify the imperative of etiquette to nurture and maintain strong friendship bonds. I have had success and failure at friendship in my life. I've not always understood how to manage friendships with the care that they deserve and have paid the price for friendships lost. So it was especially good to hear the discussion and learned from the wisdom shared as I continue learning and living a life that is a work in progress with deep appreciation. Lucy, I feel you on the friendship front. Lucy. They are not easy.

00:48:25

Speaker 2: And it was really inspirational to talk to two friends who have had some bumps in their friendship. So I'm really, really glad that you liked it. We loved having them. And again, we hope in the future it's always in the future. We hope to do more

00:48:38

Speaker 1: of that. And Lucy, thank you for clustering us with the Ezra Klein show and on being I'm familiar with both of them and the excellent that is high praise. Thank you.

00:48:48

Speaker 2: Now we'll hear from another listener also on Episode three of fact, but this time on tipping restaurant owners.

00:48:54

Speaker 2: Dear

00:48:55

Speaker 1: Lizzie and Dan. After binging 300 plus episodes, I am finally listening in live time and, um

00:49:02

Speaker 2: now

00:49:03

Speaker 2: present day lives. I don't right.

00:49:06

Speaker 2: I am. I

00:49:07

Speaker 1: am now doing so on patri on as I have become a sustaining member. Thank

00:49:11

Speaker 2: you. Thank you. I wanted to

00:49:13

Speaker 1: share a thought on tipping restaurant owners or managers who may be serving you. My first service job was in a hotel restaurant and simply based on its location. The volume of customers could be hit or miss on any given shift. If a server was unexpectedly busy, our manager would step in and wait tables with us. When asked if he would accept a tip, he always stated, Yes, thank you. I'll make sure that Mary receives this, as it should have been her table. But she's been very busy

00:49:38

Speaker 1: this way. The customers received the service they deserved. The server still made money, and the team came together. Sincerely. Grateful.

00:49:46

Speaker 2: Grateful. I think that when that is possible, that is amazing. Andi, that is such a so called so, so classic This honestly grateful. This should be an etiquette salute. Thank you for giving it to us. This feedback. But this is that is that is really classy behavior right there. Thank you so much for sharing it

00:50:07

Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who sent to something. Keep your thoughts and updates coming. You can send your next piece of feedback or update on your question toe. Awesome etiquette at Emily close dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 80 to 8585463

00:50:32

Speaker 2: It's time for a postscript segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and this week we're going to continue our image assessment and it's time for assembling your team. But first, a very quick check in.

00:50:48

Speaker 2: How did it go? Did you do it?

00:50:52

Speaker 2: Um

00:50:55

Speaker 2: oh, that's right.

00:50:56

Speaker 1: There was homework for these Post scripts. Well,

00:51:00

Speaker 1: let's do a quick refresher. Let's do a quick reminder about last week's postscript just in case anyone wasn't here. We're doing a report yet syriza three postscript Siris on image assessment. And this came out of our discussion with the call your girlfriend hosts. And the idea was that we were going to do a little assessment, a little self assessment, with the idea being to bring into harmony the way we see ourselves and the way other people see us or to develop a deeper understanding of how we're perceived by others. So weak ones assignment was to do a very reduced exercise, a very reduced version of a larger self image assessment, which involves describing yourself and the limitation that we put on that was to keep it really short to make it a descriptive sentence with three parts, or to use three words that describe to you. Well,

00:51:52

Speaker 1: it's tough because we're all big, complicated people. So telling our stories very

00:51:56

Speaker 2: quickly isn't easy. You stealing my language already cause

00:52:01

Speaker 2: that's right, Lizzie

00:52:02

Speaker 1: Post described Result is complicated and refused to give to other words to describe

00:52:06

Speaker 2: said Complex. Enough said,

00:52:09

Speaker 2: You said complex rule breaker and then forget with the three.

00:52:14

Speaker 1: The point here is really to

00:52:17

Speaker 1: perceive yourself with brevity because that's oftentimes the way your described by other people. The narrative stories that we tell about each other are very quick. Oh, she's amazing. She's the sweetest person you've ever met. She's so kind, amazing, sweet kind.

00:52:33

Speaker 1: That's your That's your brand. That's the sort of very sort of peripheral first level oven image assessment. So the assignment last week was to think about those three words. How would you if you were to be really honest with yourself, accurately describe yourself not your aspirational next self, but you?

00:52:53

Speaker 1: I said at the end of our show last week. It's an easy assignment to give. It's a hard assignment to do, applying that that I that critical eye to yourself for trying to ask yourself how you present not how you feel isn't an easy thing to do.

00:53:08

Speaker 2: So what were your three words were not

00:53:10

Speaker 1: doing? Reporting on three words right now, Lizzy

00:53:13

Speaker 2: boasts,

00:53:15

Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the teacher not doing the excitement.

00:53:22

Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. Lead us away. Teach lead us away. What's today's assignment? So now we

00:53:28

Speaker 1: have to assemble the team. The people that are going to help us continue to develop our our image assessment

00:53:35

Speaker 2: and my on your team Do I get to help you develop your three words? Since you didn't do something you

00:53:40

Speaker 1: don't know, Lizzie Post is that you've been on my team for 10 years.

00:53:44

Speaker 2: I've been on your team for 10 years. Oh, man, you have a special. You pretty much know my team for that amount of time since you came back to Vermont to exactly

00:53:55

Speaker 2: well and actually this is

00:53:56

Speaker 1: a good entry because the idea of getting your team together is that you want toe start to cultivate some perspectives that air, not your own. So you want to think about three people. And this is the assignment for this week who you could ask to help you do a really simple image exercise toe,

00:54:13

Speaker 1: Be part of your image team, and it won't be a lot of work for them. Don't worry. This isn't a big ask of someone else.

00:54:19

Speaker 2: Who can I ask a question about the team that you choose to assemble? Please? Do you think that that it necessarily needs to have people who are super close to you? I feel like trust is a big factor here, but close maybe not Absolutely. No, that sounds weird, but you can trust people you're not close

00:54:37

Speaker 1: with.

00:54:38

Speaker 1: So the elaboration here, the development of the assignment is that you want to think about three people who know you in different capacities.

00:54:45

Speaker 1: Okay, You build an image team out of your three closest friends, they're going to share with you very similar perspectives. If right you choose people,

00:54:53

Speaker 2: it's just your work. People are just your family there. You're right. It's gonna be

00:54:57

Speaker 1: to you. Kind of similar. Exactly. So what? I'm doing this assignment with working professionals I always say you want to be sure if this is about a professional image assessment that you include. People who know you professionally include a colleague who you work with on a regular basis. Include a colleague who you work with consistently. But maybe there's more distance. There's more space in the relationship. You don't see them every day or the check ins. Air happened in a different kind of way. You communicate with, um, the zoom chats instead of in person, whatever it is.

00:55:27

Speaker 2: But you can't go so far down the list of like out of out of regular contact with you that they actually don't have a good sense of you

00:55:34

Speaker 1: eggs. Exactly. So there is a little bit of thinking that goes into who you would want to ask. But there's one person who is usually a pretty easy choice, and that's the person whose the closest to you and you want to pick someone who you feel very close to someone who you feel knows you very well. And

00:55:49

Speaker 2: that would definitely be you. In this case is

00:55:51

Speaker 1: so big surprise that you are my example of the person I am very

00:55:55

Speaker 2: close to him

00:55:56

Speaker 1: who is on my image team?

00:55:59

Speaker 1: Andi, that's gonna were gonna tease that out a little bit more. There's a reason that that you're that example. But I tell people this this could be a best friend, a spouse, a partner, a colleague who you work with every day and have a real rapport with. And you want to lean on that very close connection a very personal relationship, because they're gonna help do a few things that go just a little bit beyond what you're gonna ask everyone else to help with.

00:56:24

Speaker 1: So you've chosen to people that know you in different capacities, particularly capacities that you're interested in investigating. I oftentimes say someone who knows you very closely. Someone is

00:56:33

Speaker 1: in sort of an intermediate sphere of your social circle, and then someone who's closer to the periphery or that sort of tertiary outer territory. If you were to think about your friends locations to you as a physical distance,

00:56:47

Speaker 1: but

00:56:47

Speaker 2: still knows you well within that proof, yeah, it's a good bet out negative of that circle. Exactly,

00:56:54

Speaker 2: because, like, I mean, I definitely have people on that outer circle. I'm like, Yeah, Jim, just totally doesn't get me, but that's okay. It's like, you know, we shared this space and that's fine. That person probably is too far out of circle. Yes,

00:57:06

Speaker 1: Although, if Jim was someone who you knew well enough at the club and you were curious how you came across at the club, you might choose them for a different kind of reason.

00:57:17

Speaker 1: Um, the

00:57:18

Speaker 2: thing that

00:57:18

Speaker 1: you're gonna ask your image team to do, and I'm going to go ahead and write them down in the same way I said right down the three words that you would use to describe yourself for the simple sentence you would use to describe yourself. I'm also gonna encourage you or ask you our listeners, to people who are playing along out there to write down the names of the three people that you think would be good people to assemble on your team.

00:57:41

Speaker 2: And if you're out and about right now on a run or walking the dog, just shout them out. Let's see what the people around you dio

00:57:48

Speaker 2: no

00:57:49

Speaker 2: good work. You know anything something that will help you

00:57:51

Speaker 1: remember something totally. Remember the moment. Remember the choices that you that you make and ask that you're gonna make of them is, of course, the very simple obvious, as they're gonna ask them to write down three words that they would use to describe you or to describe you in a simple sentence that has three parts.

00:58:06

Speaker 1: So you're gonna ask them toe mirror the exercise that we all tried last week, and you're going to see what they say. And it's not an easy thing to do to ask other people what they think of you, but it can be really powerful. It can be illuminating, and it can be illuminating in a number of different ways. So I I really want to strongly encourage anyone who's thinking, Oh, this might be interesting to

00:58:29

Speaker 2: take that uncomfortable and

00:58:30

Speaker 1: awkward step across the line and give yourself permission to give it a try.

00:58:35

Speaker 2: And also, if you get back stuff, that's just like, Oh, sweet, funny kind. And everybody says that kind of stuff that either may be true, that that's who you are or were not picking the right people to reflect. You need to give him some encouragement to go a little deeper.

00:58:48

Speaker 2: Yes, and at the same time, I wouldn't suggest

00:58:51

Speaker 1: giving too much direction. You really want to let them. You

00:58:53

Speaker 2: don't want to lead them. Yeah,

00:58:55

Speaker 1: don't. And by the nature of this assignment, and one of the reasons I feel so comfortable giving it is that most people are, as Lizzie points out, going to choose positive attributes

00:59:05

Speaker 1: and I The surprising result of this exercise for many people that do it is that it's just delightful that it's so much fun

00:59:13

Speaker 2: to give other people

00:59:16

Speaker 2: tell us how good we

00:59:18

Speaker 1: are, what

00:59:19

Speaker 2: they say. They

00:59:20

Speaker 1: admire respect about us, and it's it's not its things away that we often talk to each other. Or sometimes it's not a big part of our communication with each other. And

00:59:29

Speaker 1: I think a lot of people anticipate discovering distinction and difference. I think I'm funny. No one else thinks I'm funny. That's really important to know,

00:59:38

Speaker 1: and it is the distinction and difference is it matters here. Oh, the people that are really close to me understand that I'm hard working, but the people who I work with think I'm scattered or unorganized, or they chose the kind word to describe it creatively cluttered, whatever

00:59:56

Speaker 2: who are you talking

00:59:57

Speaker 1: about

01:00:00

Speaker 1: that distinction and difference is I think, the fear. Oh, I'm gonna think there's about me and no one else is. But the end result often ends up being a discovery of an attribute that is a really positive attributes. That isn't something that someone

01:00:15

Speaker 1: had a strong identification with to begin with. Everyone sees me as loyal. Everyone sees me, is committed. I didn't know that about myself, and that's worth knowing.

01:00:23

Speaker 1: Um, so

01:00:25

Speaker 1: that's the one purpose of the team that you've assembled, that they're gonna actually help you do this very simple image exercise. This image assessment exercise,

01:00:35

Speaker 1: as Lizzie has sort of hinted at that person that's the closest to you is also a real ally in other ways, because you've introduced to them the idea of doing self assessment. They're also someone who you can go a little bit further with who you might not only give permission to talk to you about things we don't usually talk with each other about, But you might ask them to help you, um, discover things about yourself that people don't often talk about with each other, and you might ask them to help you do a personal grooming or hygiene assessment or an assessment of unconscious habits.

01:01:09

Speaker 1: Sometimes those air

01:01:10

Speaker 1: nervous ticks, physical things. People do crack knuckles, click pens, sometimes their patterns that creep into speech

01:01:17

Speaker 1: because they're habituated actions. They're really hard to identify yourself. And because there's such personal things, even the people were the closest to

01:01:26

Speaker 1: don't always tell us what they're seeing thinking or hearing

01:01:29

Speaker 1: and leaning on that really close relationship to start to investigate some of those really personal things that can impact image and how we present and how we're perceived can be so, so, so helpful. And Lizzie Post you are by that person. We have a very open relationship in terms of the permission we give each other to talk about things, and I lean on it and I count on it. And

01:01:52

Speaker 2: coffee breath boogers and longhairs. Man,

01:01:54

Speaker 1: how about the dresser that made my clothes smell like an anti

01:01:58

Speaker 2: A? And when your clothes smell bad, that's one where it's like that closet smell if anyone can scientifically tell me what that is, But it's that smell that close get sometimes when they're sitting on top of each other for too long or hang next to each other for too long and like I know about, you know, amount of cedar seems to help.

01:02:15

Speaker 1: No. Although I've done some things that have helped with that dresser and the day that we were standing at the copy machine and you told me I smelled funny is a day I appreciate,

01:02:28

Speaker 2: Dan. I'm noticing something that happens at my house sometime. And I'm wondering if I have permission to talk with you about it, cause it is about, like, aroma.

01:02:37

Speaker 2: Uh, okay. What is it?

01:02:40

Speaker 2: You've got old closet smell going on on your shirt, man. It

01:02:44

Speaker 1: was a relatively easy fix. Relatively. And just so you know, I think it goes the other way to because I've heard you ask me. Teoh give you similar kinds of feedback when you're getting ready to go out publicly and present a book and it is a big deal. It's so useful toe. Have that outside. I and you can't count on people

01:03:02

Speaker 1: to talk to you about your appearance If you haven't really given permission to have that conversation because it can feel really awkward for people.

01:03:10

Speaker 2: It can. It's not easy toe welcome, people. into that space, which is one of the reasons why General etiquette says We don't comment on other people's appearances unless actually asked by them for that comment. It's a big risk, you know, any time that you're willing to look at yourself even bigger when you then invite others in to do that, too, with a critical eye.

01:03:37

Speaker 2: And I've gotta be honest, we don't always want to muster the energy for it. It takes a lot.

01:03:43

Speaker 1: You make a really good point. This is again easy assignment to give a hard assignment to do. Ah, willingness to look at yourself is risky and sort of mentally preparing yourself toe.

01:03:57

Speaker 1: Be delighted, but also to maybe have something pop up that you had no idea about. It really wasn't something that you were thinking about when it all began. That you want to stay open to that is really, really worthwhile will help you get the most out of trying something like this.

01:04:13

Speaker 1: Lizzie Post. Thank you for indulging me and will wrap up next week for a little bit of a discussion about what we may be discovered, and maybe the

01:04:21

Speaker 1: instructor will take a chance and share his three words.

01:04:29

Speaker 2: We like to end

01:04:30

Speaker 1: our show on a high note. So we

01:04:31

Speaker 2: turn to

01:04:32

Speaker 1: you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world, and

01:04:36

Speaker 2: that can come

01:04:36

Speaker 1: in so many forms. Today. We have a salute from Paula,

01:04:40

Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan. I'd like to salute an act of kindness. I witnessed working as a cashier. The woman I was helping had just finished checking out and still had a gallon sized Ziploc bag full of coupons. She noticed the couple behind her, didn't have any coupons and turned around to offer them some of hers. The couple was confused at first, then, so happily surprised by her generosity and thanked her for the coupons. It was nice to see that, especially amid these uncertain times when so many are dealing with financial stress. Thanks, Paula. That is sweet. I actually hadn't heard of Let me like That's something that I feel like happens in grocery store lines. You're like, Oh, here. You know what? I have a coupon. If the people behind me need it, you know what I mean. Or something like that to my advantage.

01:05:25

Speaker 1: Curd?

01:05:26

Speaker 2: Yes, Something like that like, Oh, they can use my yet that kind of stuff. It does happen. Um, but this is that this is a nice call out of it. Paula, thank you so much for sharing this with us.

01:05:37

Speaker 1: Paula, thank you so much and thank you to everyone for listening and thank you to everyone else who sent those something and thank you to everyone who supports us on patri on

01:05:47

Speaker 2: a lot of thinking going on, please connect with us and share the show with friends, family and co workers. And on social media,

01:05:54

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01:06:14

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01:06:20

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01:06:27

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01:06:31

Speaker 1: help our show ranking so more people confined. Awesome etiquette. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine and assistant produced by Bridget Dowd.

01:06:39

Speaker 1: Thanks Kris and Brigitte.