Episode 308 - When you..., I feel...

Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how you social

Speaker 1: watch, how busy post and damn posts actors hosting.

Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, really friendliness

Speaker 1: and welcome toe awesome etiquette,

Speaker 2: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

Speaker 1: On today's show, we take your questions on condolences for colleagues, uninviting those who don't follow Cove in 19 guidelines. Sending a thank you know for a thank you gift and wanting others to respect your avoidance of bad news for

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question is about carefully critiquing

Speaker 1: what the hosts serves, plus your most excellent feedback, and it gets salute and a postscript segment on when you I feel statements. All

Speaker 2: that coming up

Speaker 2: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Cindy Post Senning,

Speaker 1: and

Speaker 2: I'm damn

Speaker 1: post sending. And as

Speaker 2: you could

Speaker 1: tell, we have a very special show for you today. I want to welcome back my mother, who you might hear me slip and call Mom occasionally. Throughout the course of the show,

Speaker 1: who you would probably better. Noah Cindy Post Senning, Mom, Welcome to the show. Hopes I did it already.

Speaker 2: Hey, well, I'm so glad to be here. It's always a pleasure when you give me that call and say, Could you possibly fill in for Lizzie today? And I get a chance to spend some time with you talking about my favorite topic etiquette?

Speaker 1: Well, we certainly appreciate it. Lizzy, as regular listeners to the showed No, has been working very diligently on the first draft of the 20th edition of Emily Post Etiquette, and she's been down in Martha's Vineyard working on that and is, I think, while were recording right now, somewhere on the road in between Martha's Vineyard and Vermont. She's on her way home two chapters in hand

Speaker 1: and really appreciates your being able to be here so she can stay focused on what she's doing, which at the moment is driving safety first.

Speaker 2: Well, it's it is really fun to do this. I enjoyed being a guest host on awesome etiquette. No question about that, and this has been kind of fun because I don't know if your listeners know, but you and I live pretty close to each other, like were next door neighbors up. You're just up the hill from me and we're having an opportunity to kind of do this, you in your house and me and my house. But I can practically look out my window and see you. So it's really fun and just a little bit different.

Speaker 1: I know. Don't don't get me looking out the window too much. It's such a beautiful day.

Speaker 2: It's a gorgeous day.

Speaker 1: I'm going to start wishing that we were sitting out on the lawn doing this. Although there's no way to record the conversation without recording each other, it would be nice to be able to sit on the lawn and look at you while we do this. But, alas, there is a technological barrier,

Speaker 2: and while we have been sort of pandemic awareness, we do do meetings where we have had some fun picnics out on one of our lawns or the other with some physical distancing between us. But I get a chance to see Anisha and Aria running around, and we get a chance to talk and weaken, sip 6 ft apart, and it works beautifully.

Speaker 2: Tonight we were saying, Dan and I were saying He's going to come down here actually and have a little dinner with us. And then we're going to a special concert down at the church in Waterbury, where the pianist from the church is going to be playing music and has some vocalists and some other musicians playing and will be physically distanced on the church lawn and listen to them sitting on the porch of this beautiful old white New England church. It's like a perfect setting.

Speaker 1: So I'm so glad the weather held. I've been looking forward to this ever since you told me a couple days ago. First Mary Janes, an incredible musician.

Speaker 1: And second, I don't think I've heard live music and maybe six months, if you can believe it,

Speaker 2: right so way were saying the other thing that that I don't know to what extent your listeners, our listeners, know that Poochigian the girls have been away. And so this has been your bachelor. We'd get home or bachelor four days, kind of wondering how that's going down.

Speaker 1: It's true, I miss Pooja. I missed all of them and this, obviously, Anisha and Aria, it's so quiet up here right now. I'm flying through sort of a backlog of work, which feels really good. Then. In

Speaker 2: some ways, it's really familiar to me to be alone.

Speaker 1: But

Speaker 1: it's a familiarity, that

Speaker 1: is,

Speaker 1: It's far enough in my past at this point that it's it's really it's interesting that both feels familiar and very strange.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well, nice. Well, at least we're next door and we can visit a little bit and relieve some of that loneliness once in a while.

Speaker 1: Well, yes, that I appreciate the offer. You and brother will have both been really good about saying, If you're just going stir crazy, come on over. We'll put you on the lawn physically, if not socially distant,

Speaker 2: Right? Excellent. Well, you know, we've got some work to

Speaker 1: get. Teoh. Just because Lizzie's gone doesn't mean the question stopped coming right. Shall

Speaker 2: we get to some questions? I think we should get to some questions.

Speaker 1: Let's do it.

Speaker 1: Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 80 to 8585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter were at Emily Post. Inst on instagram. We're at Emily Post Institute on Facebook Were awesome etiquette. Just remember to use the hash tag. Awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

Speaker 1: Mom, why

Speaker 2: don't you take us away? Okay, I'm gonna just start with this first question. Condolences for a colleague.

Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I love the show. Thank you so much for making it.

Speaker 2: I have a question about a situation that happened recently within my team at work. A teammate had a death in the family. Her brother had died for context. I have not worked closely with this particular teammate and have not had much contact at all with her outside of chatting together at a happy hour once, months ago. Pre pandemic locked down

Speaker 2: while we are all working remote, there weren't any natural ways to offer real time condolences such as office run ins in the hall or kitchen, or swinging by her desk to offer condolences and reaching out via our work chat in the middle of a work day seemed intrusive and inappropriate. Maybe I'm wrong here.

Speaker 2: Our boss did send flowers to her and signed it from the entire team. But unfortunately, her address was wrong in the HR system and they did not arrive. Long story short, she later reached out to our boss and let him know that she was pretty upset and disappointed that no one on the team around 20 people had reached out to her. Our boss led a few of us know that. And we, of course, all felt terrible.

Speaker 2: My question is, what would have been a better way to handle this situation? Obviously, the flowers not arriving was an unfortunate twist. But other than that, what would have been a better way to reach out on a more personal level?

Speaker 2: Where is the line between offering condolences at work but also not wanting to distract someone at work when maybe they're trying to not focus on sad personal situations while working? Thank you, Michaela. Oh,

Speaker 1: Makayla. Thank you for the question. And I'm sorry that you ended up dealing with this kind of a situation where someone was dealing with something difficult and

Speaker 1: maybe you end up left feeling like it ended up getting more difficult because of the action or, in this case, in action of some of the people around your colleague.

Speaker 1: And I guess the first thought that I had is I just want toe acknowledge that things happen things like addresses being wrong in HR Systems and the flowers that were meant to come from a whole team not arriving. And

Speaker 1: that is unfortunate. And it's something that I don't want you to beat yourself up over too badly for. It's really

Speaker 1: it's really okay. It's It's something that happened. But there's there's gonna be a way to move beyond it.

Speaker 1: There is also a larger traditional etiquette context here that I think could be really helpful. But before I dive into it, I want to ask my mother, Cindy, sending What are your first reactions to this question?

Speaker 2: My first reactions are that I think that Michaela is really considering some different options that might well have worked for her. In fact, for instance, she was talking about maybe reaching out to someone at work and then considering the ramifications of that, is that really problematic or not? I think that's the main one. I don't think that she considered one of the first things I would have thought of, which would have been just using the old fashioned mail system and sending a note.

Speaker 2: She certainly could have done that. A sympathy card or a note might have been the easiest way to make a connection without interrupting the work process

Speaker 1: that couldn't agree any more. That's the traditional etiquette solution that works so so well, and I find that it's one of those traditional eh tickets that people really turned to Emily Post for advice about.

Speaker 1: It's a traditional etiquette that that's a pretty

Speaker 1: firm structure around it, and we'll talk about that in just a minute. But I also find for being something that works so well and was such a traditional etiquette form. It's one

Speaker 2: of the things

Speaker 1: that I find people don't know about as much. And that's the idea that when someone passes,

Speaker 1: you send a note of sympathy or condolence to the people that are the closest to that person, and

Speaker 1: it's not a personal overreach. It's a very, very common practice. In fact, it's the advisable course of action and would have exactly addressed the difficult situation that this question presents.

Speaker 2: I think that people sometimes avoid doing sympathy notes because they think sympathy cards are, um,

Speaker 2: it's so kind of made up, You know, the made by the card makers, company and stuff like that. They're not personal enough, and you can really do two things. One is you can just you can just use ah, plain sheet of paper to do with a sympathy note on that's perfectly all right to Dio. Or you can use a card that just has a flower are something on the front, and then I spend lots of time actually down at the gift card. You know, the cords shop and look for sympathy cards that have that don't seem schmaltzy. What would be schmaltzy in my language? They might be perfect for somebody else, but they wouldn't fit my particular personality. But I look and find a card that seems to fit what I might be thinking and saying, and then the key is when I get home and I have somebody that I want to send that card to. I make a point of writing a personal note on that card so It's not just the the formula kind of message that comes on most sympathy cards, but it's also my personal note where I mentioned something to the person. If if I knew the person who had died that I might mention something about that relationship or just that I'm thinking of you and that I know it's a kind of a difficult time. It's a

Speaker 1: good point that there is a relationship between the form itself and bringing yourself in a really personal way to that moment or two, that structure. And I think you've given some really good ideas about ways to do that, that

Speaker 1: if you're picking a card, you pick a card that speaks to you and that no matter whether you're using your own personal stationery or whether you're using a blank sheet of paper or card that you like that, you make some effort in the note a handwritten note that you include in that card or on that piece of paper to connect in a way that's meaningful and and reflects the relationship that you have, either with the person receiving the note or the person who's passing. You're acknowledging

Speaker 2: in this case, Makayla could even say something to the effect that you know. I'm sorry that I'm not there to be ableto did just mention this in person, but I for sure wanted to get a note off to you to let you know I'm thinking off you something like that. You know, just even, you know, even that kind of makes the connection in these difficult times to make connections.

Speaker 1: I really like that advice. I also really like that in the absence of Lizzie Post, our master of sample scripts, you have provided us with a very functional sample script.

Speaker 2: The one other thing that I'd like to say here to Michaela that she didn't really specifically ask. But she's sort of in that awkward situation now where she knows that the teammate is upset and disappointed that no one said anything and sort of what does she do about something like that? And I think that a sample script here, I think that she just when she gets a chance again, she could either do it is a note, or she could do it is a meeting of face time, you know, discussion back and forth and just say I'm so sorry that that didn't work out the flowers that we had hoped you had gotten letting you all know we were thinking of you. Um, but I just want you to know that I have been thinking of you, and I know it's been a difficult time and, um, you know, I look forward to seeing you again at work.

Speaker 1: I agree. My last note on this question simply reads, There is still time that ah, question. We often get about sympathy. Your condolence notes has to do with the window that it's acceptable to send them in. And obviously, the sooner you know in, the sooner you can do it the better. But it's not like there's, Ah, three month window, and once you've missed it, you've missed your opportunity. In fact, often times it can be really nice for someone to know that people out there are still thinking about thumb or still thinking about their lost loved one. And sometimes it's those little touch points that happen later on. The really are significant for someone. So don't don't think that you've missed your chance here. There is still an opportunity

Speaker 2: you can even do that is a part of a sympathy note. Makayla, Thank you so

Speaker 1: much for this question. We really appreciate your efforts to do the right thing, and we really hope that this answer helps you figure out a path forward that makes you and your coworker feel better.

Speaker 1: Our next question is about Cove it carelessness. Hello, Lizzie and Dan. I love your podcast and find myself applying a lot of your suggested language in my day to day life. Thank you.

Speaker 1: A little context to the question may help. I was recently hosting a three person, socially distance backyard get together when one of the invitees let me know that another invitee was not following Cove. It related guidelines. I e seeing many people traveling, hosting people in her home, etcetera. This was unknown to me at the time of the invitation and made me very uncomfortable. I promptly canceled the event altogether. Instead of addressing the crux of why the event was canceled, I forged a lame excuse. I did not like how I handled the situation. Here is my question. How does one elegantly and honestly rescind an invitation to a guest due to the guests? Flagrant disregard of Cove. It related precautions. Thank you kindly, Kate.

Speaker 2: Well, Kate, thanks for your question here. This is certainly timely.

Speaker 2: I think that it's, Ah, pretty straightforward response in this case. I don't think you need to forge a lame excuse. I've done it myself many times and know just how you feel having done that. But I think that just a straightforward response that, you know, you've been thinking about the your plans toe have, ah, physically distanced or socially distanced eventing, even in your backyard. And it seemed OK at the time. But since then, some of the things you've been hearing on the news and or if that's not the case, just as you have thought more and more about it, you're just still not really comfortable with getting started with that kind of entertaining. So you're going to rescind your invitation? I'm so sorry. And I don't think you need to go any further than that. I don't think you need to get into her behavior or commenting on her behavior. That's that's sort of not the time or the place to be doing that.

Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I really like that answer. A couple of things I liked about it. One I liked the way you apologized for rescinding the invitation, not for your judgement of the person, but just as a host I'm dealing with, Ah,

Speaker 1: a situation that's new and awkward were operating in a global pandemic where we've got to be more flexible. Plans might change as conditions change

Speaker 1: and people understand that.

Speaker 1: And at the same time, you show that you're still hitting your marks by remembering that you're stepping outside of that usual expected advocate of I've offered an invitation. I'm going to stick to that. I'm gonna follow through with my plans.

Speaker 1: You might be more accepting of your own desire to cancel that, and your guests are going to be more accepting. But acknowledging it goes a long way towards delivering that news well,

Speaker 2: right? And you don't It doesn't even need to be that, you know, I think I might have mentioned Are you? So I sort of heard it in your response just now, Dan, that things have changed or something like that. So it's different. It could just be that you acknowledge that you've changed. You know, I've thought about this some more, and you know. I just realized that I'm not comfortable with doing this and maybe some you could even say Maybe some of you aren't either, you know, and I think we should give it a little more time before we're getting together.

Speaker 1: I agree. 1000% and I was also thinking about what makes an excuse valid versus lame, or what makes it a reasonable reason. Verse a lame excuse. And it is. It's it's it's really subtle. And I think that you have to use honesty is a guide that you don't ever want to say anything that isn't true. Obviously, you want to protect the integrity of your word, but you also want to protect the integrity of your intent. You don't want toe lie by omission or create an impression that's actually not true. And what I really like about the way you're thinking about it is that you're looking for a reason that has to do with you your approach, your feelings, and as long as you ground your reason in that, you're gonna be in really good shape, and you also avoid what I think is a potential trap here, which is something you hinted out, which is commenting on someone else's behavior,

Speaker 1: that

Speaker 1: in this particular case there's also ah, game of telephone that you've heard from someone else about this behavior.

Speaker 1: And

Speaker 1: to me, that's that's a little too much. Whether or not you should have that information,

Speaker 1: how was it conveyed? Um starts to get unnecessarily complicated.

Speaker 2: It really can. And and this time of covert and these this whole issue of concern over relationships and contact on things. I was in a situation where, where we were doing a physically distance thing and we were not wearing masks because we're going to be physically distanced. But we might be getting closer together. So we have been talking about wearing masks, and one of the other people said, Oh, I'm so glad we're not doing masks And I was thinking to myself, Boy, I'm not glad we're not doing masks and I didn't say anything and sort of for a long time. Afterwards, I kept wondering whether or not I should have said something or not. You know, commenting because people are coming at this particular pandemic situation, social situations from different perspectives, and they feel differently about it, and it sometimes does set you up in awkward situations, and I think the two things that we mentioned at the outset one is honesty and responding as honestly as you can to a situation and then also not trying to change other people's behavior.

Speaker 2: I don't think that at least etiquette wise, that isn't the place here. And I don't I think you can just set yourself up in some ways that you don't want to.

Speaker 1: I agree. I want a tease, a topic that I'm hoping to get to in the post script, which is, and I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit. Cindy Sending it comes from something I remembered you teaching when you used to be a school nurse and you would teach life skills, toe adolescence, the quest classes they used to offer Harwood.

Speaker 1: And I always remember the when you I feel statements as ah, construct a way to talk to someone about their actions and how you're impacted by them without

Speaker 1: blaming someone else or prescribing behavior for someone else. And I'm hoping that we can revisit the function and the intent of the when you I feel statement and our post script. Would you be game for something like that?

Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. Thea other thing is thinking back to the situation that I was just talking about, that I was in later on, as I thought about it, that what I could have done what and what I really wish that I had done was I should have said, You know, I'm still not that comfortable about not using masks. So you're going to notice that I'm making a particularly special effort to be physically distanced. It's nothing personal, but if you're getting a little closer to me than I'm comfortable with, I'm going to just move away a little bit, and you need to know it has to do with this pandemic. Not our relationship is something like that. So if I had just made that effort in that situation, I think I would have felt a little better and again, it's taking it on myself. It was my response to this situation that I needed to be tending Teoh.

Speaker 1: I like that reflection, and it's a great example of how we do the same kind of questioning ourselves the way we deal with when we answer questions here on the show. I I appreciate the willingness to both reflect and think about how you might have handled it a little bit better.

Speaker 1: Kate. I hope that our answer gives you something to reflect on as well. And in the future, I'm sure that you will be successful finding that elegant solution to these kinds of awkward situations

Speaker 1: a dynamic community health program, physicians, voluntary agencies and a health department working together can do much to ensure your well being and that of your Children.

Speaker 1: It can provide the kind of environment which is essential to good health and wholesome living.

Speaker 1: But a modern, full time health department cannot exist without active citizens support.

Speaker 1: It's up to you

Speaker 2: our next questions and etiquette classic Thank you for the thank You,

Speaker 2: dear Lizzie and Dan. First off, I love the podcast. It's nice to listen to some positivity when I go for a jog in the evenings. My question is a matter of thank you notes. My husband and I live in a large house that have was converted into a triplex in the basement. We set up a washer and dryer and have allowed our downstairs neighbor to use it as well

Speaker 2: as thanks. She gave us a lovely bottle of homemade Moscato wine and a very nice thank you note.

Speaker 2: My question. Should we in turn send a thank you note for the wine when it was in fact, to thank you in the first place? I feel like we should, but I don't know where the chain of thanking is supposed to end. Best regards. Ah, thankful, neighbor.

Speaker 1: Ah, thankful, neighbor. We're thankful for the question. And

Speaker 1: there is no need for the chain to go on forever and ever. It definitely turn into a new infinity mirror situation. And

Speaker 1: this is a question that

Speaker 1: we have not answered once on this show, not twice, not three times. But I couldn't even count them and will probably answer it again. It comes in different forms, and I think that's because thanks are so delightful. Thank you's air so surprising. And thank you. Gifts in particular are so delightful and surprising. And that impact, that feeling that you get when you receive that thank you gift of appreciation of feeling appreciated often inspires the thought of I want

Speaker 2: to thank him for this Thank you

Speaker 1: gift. And hence we get questions like yours and we get to say again, it's It's okay. The chain does have to stop somewhere. You don't need to thank someone for a thank you. In fact, you play your etiquette role well by receiving that thanks and really being a recipient of that gratitude, which is as important for the other person as it is for you.

Speaker 2: On the other hand, I do think it's perfectly OK when you run into that neighbor in the hall or at the entrance or on the walk in front of the house to just mention how much you've enjoyed the wine and how thoughtful that was with them. You can do it sort of that way without continuing the thank you know chain.

Speaker 1: I'm calling it the wiggle room option

Speaker 1: that even though from an etiquette point of view, thanking for a thanks is not only not required at some point, it has to wind out. Or it could go on forever. There is some wiggle room around receiving a thank you gift that the person hasn't given you in person. Lizzie Post likes toe remind people that it's nice to let someone know a gift has arrived. So under the guise of we got your bottle of wine and note and so appreciated, it is another way you can kind of sneak a thank you for the thank you. In there. You can let someone know that it did land and that it had the desired impact without sort of formalising that as a reply, thanks and doing that in person. I think it's a great option.

Speaker 2: So thankful, neighbor. We hope that our response has been helpful to you as you continue the tradition of being a good neighbor.

Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1: Our next question is about bad news boundaries. Hi, Lizzie and Dan. Like many, I found myself struggling under the growing weight of an endless barrage of negative news this year. I recently cold down my social media consumption, which has been a sure step in the right direction, but now find myself facing a slightly more complex and related predicament.

Speaker 1: I work in an environment where the line between co worker and friend is somewhat blurred. As such, it seems that someone is always sending out the latest breaking news and wanting to talk about it on slack. This makes it almost impossible to unplug from rising levels of anxiety, fear and uncertainty during was should be the welcome respite and distraction of the work day.

Speaker 1: I certainly respect that. We're all navigating a sea of new emotions in our own way.

Speaker 1: While some of my colleagues elect a process by talking things out with others. I've chosen to prioritize my own mental health by determining the pace and place for my news consumption. And my workplace simply isn't one of them.

Speaker 1: I would be so grateful to hear your thoughts on a clear kind script for stepping out of these conversations when they arise at work. I want to honor and support the individual needs of those around me in these challenging times, while establishing and upholding the boundaries that work for me.

Speaker 1: Thanks so much boundaries. Please,

Speaker 2: will boundaries, please. I think that your letter really touches back to the very thing we talked a little bit about earlier, which is the issue of, um, expressing things in terms of your own feelings or your own situation or the way you're responding to things. And I think that you might find a time if you could, when you're at the end of a work conversation or when you feel with one of these notes has just come through that's made you uncomfortable to send a note back to the person that sent it and just say, You know, I've been trying to downplay my reception of a lot of news in today's world the way it's going and when you have sent those messages out, I feel a little bit uncomfortable. And so I would just assume, let you know that I'm probably not going to read through the whole thing, and or that I would just assume you take me off of that group mailing or something to that effect. The point is that you again say you take sort of personal responsibility for your own response to the news that's going on in the world these days and the way you're trying to handle it and let the person know that they don't know right now that you don't like to receive those messages, and somehow you need to be letting them know

Speaker 2: you want to do it in a way that doesn't again. That isn't making a commentary on their option and choice to be dealing with things by sharing them. Um, you really just want to be clear your own choice to kind of stay away from some of that news. For now,

Speaker 1: I agree that boundary setting at work is so important, and I see the awareness of that in the way this question is framed. And I think that awareness is your friend. And

Speaker 1: you can really think about it like that that it's

Speaker 1: easier for me. Teoh

Speaker 1: address the broad situation than an individual instance or occurrence. So when that note pops up, I think you could respond by saying that you're going to check out of the conversation. But to me, the easy timeto have that discussion is before it's happened. If this is happening repeatedly, you could have that discussion independent of the thing itself occurring

Speaker 1: and to start to let people know that communication is so important. Exactly what you let us know in this question that in order to regulate your own mental space, you're really trying to regulate your consumption of news and media. And that's an idea that I think many people will understand if they haven't heard about it already, and they haven't already been thinking about it. It should make sense. It's it's, ah, responsibility for a lot of working professionals now, and a lot of people just in their lives for maintaining their own, their own mental health.

Speaker 2: Dan, you know, it's just while you were talking. I was glancing over boundaries pleases no, and she actually uses a phrase that it's like a perfect phrase that we can use for our own. You know, when, when we're giving people sample scripts her last paragraph starts with. I certainly respect that. We are all navigating a sea of new emotions in our own way. That is perfect for this time. And that's what that's all you need to say to your your work, buddy. That's maybe sending you these message. You know, I just respect that we're doing this differently. We're all I like that Navigating a sea of new emotions is really nice. Turn of phrase, as they say

Speaker 1: I do to. It's a really well written question.

Speaker 1: The other thought that I had, and this gets maybe a little bit detail, but I want to parse out and

Speaker 1: ask boundaries. Pleased to think about what the new boundary is that you're really looking for. And if that boundary is just permission to not participate in the conversation, I think the threshold for what you have to say, toe just not respond or remove yourself from the expectation of participation is pretty low

Speaker 1: that you can let people know that during work it's it's it's, Ah,

Speaker 1: a refuge for you where you can just focus on your work and you really try not to talk about things outside of work. When you're in that time and space and

Speaker 1: now you're not asking anything of them, the slack discussions can continue. Those message boards can continue if if that's enough, if just not needing to respond, you're like me. You can just skim over that stuff and ignore it, and it doesn't really impact you.

Speaker 1: Then I think that's that's fine.

Speaker 1: If you're gonna ask them for a change in behavior. If you're gonna ask them to stop posting those notes where you see them or on the project threads that you're a part of in slack,

Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit bigger oven ask and you're gonna because you're asking someone else to modify their behavior for your sake and I would approach that conversation with a little mawr care. I'd be ready to share a little bit more about the impacts that it that it has on you and how it can take you to a different place mentally or distract you intellectually. What whatever it is, however, you want to have that discussion, and I think that those when you I feel statements taking responsibility for your reactions is a great way to have that discussion also. But I think it gets a little bit mawr involved when you're asking for a change from someone else rather than them just understanding that you're probably not gonna be responding.

Speaker 2: I just think that's true. And I think when she talks about the that were each doing this in our own way really recognizes that the notion in the other person, the person who sending the notes that they have a need to be responding to the current news and messages in one way and you haven't need in a different way. And that's what this is about boundaries, Please. We hope that this

Speaker 1: answer helps in a time where people are setting boundaries in new places all the time. we really think that communication is key and applaud your efforts. Thinking about that

Speaker 2: first? Of course. No, you work, enjoy, but also enjoy the people you're working with be considered a thin

Speaker 2: and be considered of your employer.

Speaker 2: Those rules have certainly helped.

Speaker 2: Always great before they would see you in the morning. Then, yes, I'll be here. Fine,

Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 80 to 858 kind. That's 80 to 8585463 or reaches on social media on Twitter, we are at Emily Post Instant on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media post, so we know you want your question on the show.

Speaker 2: If you

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Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. We hear from Michaela on episode 306 and unwanted nicknames for your baby

Speaker 1: Hello ee team. I want to offer a suggestion to the question. Ask her from Episode 306 Regarding not wanting people to call their new baby by certain nicknames, we chose a non English name for our daughter, which is not easily pronounced in English. People have come up with all kinds of nicknames for her, including ones we genuinely dislike, mostly to make it easier for them to say

Speaker 1: we discourage this. We started telling people

Speaker 2: we only

Speaker 1: call her

Speaker 1: and then her full first name so that she can learn her name. She can pick her own nickname if she wants. When she is older. This has worked with family, our friends, the parents of her friends and her daycare teachers. Hopefully, this helps Makayla.

Speaker 2: Thanks for your feedback. Makayla really appreciated. It's especially fun for May. Since between Dan and me, we have this exact issue. He named his second daughter, Aria, and I like to call her Yaya. I always thought that they didn't like me calling her Yaya, but I sort of like it. So that's what I dio.

Speaker 1: Well, that's an example where the Dick nave is one that we like, even though you worry that people don't like,

Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of fun. They call me Gaga and I call her. Yeah, yeah, So there you go

Speaker 1: Makayla. I appreciate the advice. It's really good to hear about how other people handle the baby nickname situation.

Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com, or leave us a voicemail or text at 80 to 858 kind. That's 80 to 8585463 It's

Speaker 1: time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and

Speaker 2: this week

Speaker 1: we're going to check in with Cindy Post Senning about something that I learned from her long before either of us ever went toe work at the Emily Post Institute. And that's the when you I feel statement and it's something I've been thinking a lot about, as

Speaker 1: in my role as an etiquette advisor but having a lot of

Speaker 1: conversations with people about how to have difficult conversations these days, oftentimes, around Cove in 19 and people trying to navigate

Speaker 1: this world of social physical distancing that we operate in. And I keep thinking about

Speaker 1: the when you I feel statement, which I have in my personal memory, located

Speaker 1: in a something I learned from my mother when she was teaching a quest class, which is sort of an adolescent life skills classes, a school nurse at the high school that I went to.

Speaker 1: Now what I'm hoping to do with this postscript, Mom Cindy Post Senning is Teoh sort of tease out and get you talking a little bit about the when you I feel statement and I'd like to learn a little bit more from you about where actually came from, how you actually used it and pair it up with my memory of how I learned it from you and what its purpose was and Maybe our audience can get something out of that discussion. How does that sound to you?

Speaker 2: Sure, that sounds fine. Um, it takes me back a bunch of years, actually, but I'm glad to do that. The when you I feel statement, I used to use it in the context of giving middle school kids seventh graders a sense of control in who they are and then what they were doing. Kitson, in seventh grade, typically have no control over so many things their bodies air, changing their emotions or changing their cognitive skills or changing

Speaker 2: everything is changing, and it's changing out of their control. In essence, eso they gain weight or they lose weight. I could go on and on about that, but it's part of what makes being a middle schooler 1/7 grader kind of tough sometimes. And one of the things I used to try to do was find ways that you can give kids control. And when you think about that, if you think about when they're with their friends and their friends done something that they felt really angry about and they say to their friend, all you make me so mad they're giving their friend that control over them. They're saying to their friend, You can make me mad whenever you want. All you need to do is say that or whatever, and you give away control over your own responses in your own feelings. So when you do a when you I feel statement, you take control of your response.

Speaker 2: You say to your friend, You know, when you talk like that I feel so angry because and then the because sometimes pretty important, because it helps Teoh. It helps Teoh complete that that whole sense. So when you talk like that, I feel really upset because those words are not words I'm supposed to use or whatever it ISS that you take the responsibility for it. And it's so amazing to watch kids taking control over their own responses in their own reactions. Instead of letting somebody else control their emotions. That's what it is. It was that basic, and kids could get that And as soon as you practice it a few times, it's such an easy way to respond to things and it's honest and truthful all those things, and it's giving yourself some self control. I

Speaker 1: love that idea of it

Speaker 1: functioning to give you control over your response So often, when I think about it, I think about the functionality of that statement in terms of how it's received by the other person.

Speaker 1: That to me there's a real utility to it that when you say to someone when you do this, I feel this way you're not making any assumptions about why they do that or how they think it functions. You're not telling them what to do. Moving forward. You're not sort of trying to prescribe a fix, or it doesn't even necessarily have to come across as an accusation or blaming that. Its's really informational. It's like when you do that thing that I'm seeing, it makes me feel this way. And what I'm appreciating right now is that the root functionality and you're reminding me of this is that it also gives you so much control over your reaction and response. I mean it, really. It works in both directions as a communication tool, their benefits for you and benefits for the person who you're responding to.

Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, and again, you're not telling them how to behave. It's so interesting because when you do this with a group of kids to our people, adults, too, you can say that person, if they say to you are you can say, Oh, you make me so angry or something like that then then they know what they can do to make you angry, one to begin with. But when you say I feel angry, they can't say to You know, you don't feel angry, You said, I mean, it gives your in control of that whole emotional response so they can't say back to you know, you're not. That doesn't make you angry. Well, it does make you angry, you know what I mean? I don't know that that was the other piece of it that used to get the kids. It was like they can't even tell you how to feel. You're in control of how you feel. That's the key.

Speaker 1: I love it. I love that that sense of control that comes from it and learning any sort of tactic or language structure to help regulate emotion or get some control over emotional responses is useful, particularly in the context that we talk about it here on awesome etiquette. The other thing that I'm learning in this post script is that I had forgotten the whole because part of the when you I feel statement and you mentioned how important that is. It it it introduces this whole potential third element. When you do X, I feel why? Because Z and all of a sudden you've now got a whole other tool for sort of explaining your context and your reaction, which is also such good information to give someone if you're talking with them about how something they're doing is affecting you.

Speaker 2: So it really all fits in in the whole world of etiquette that you and I talked about so often because it's this issue about communicating with people and being clear about what's going on and what the issues are. And it's numerous things. It's sort of the communication. It's the honest communication, and it's also the control issue and when you're talking to a group of seventh graders and teens in general, but middle school kids in particular, um, I often often talk to parents and say Try and find places where you can give your kids control because that's what's at issue for them is the loss of control in their lives during this time period.

Speaker 1: I appreciate your willingness to do Ah, a little bit of a deep dive into the memory banks on the when you I feel statements, you never know what it is that you're going to teach your kids. It's going to stick with him yet, but that's one of those things. But I'm glad. I'm glad we had a chance to get back to it cause I learned something new today.

Speaker 2: It was my pleasure, so happy

Speaker 1: to do it.

Speaker 1: Wherever you go, there will be teasers occasionally. These people are amusing more often simply discourteous and annoying.

Speaker 1: But teasers may do real damage if they ridicule others because they look or act differently.

Speaker 1: Or, as in Judy's case, because they are victims of circumstances.

Speaker 2: We like

Speaker 1: to end our show on a high note, so we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world, and that can come in so many forms. And

Speaker 2: today we have

Speaker 1: a note from Susanna about a previous episode, and I am so glad this was our salute. Today it's a little bit of a weird salute and that it's not a big etiquette. Thank you. It was almost a thank you to the show about a concept that we introduced and Cindy Post Senning. I did not plan this, but we introduced the Corona move in Episode number 303 And this was a little salute. That was a response to the Corona move. And it came in the form of Facebook Post that said hello, Lizzie and Dan. I loved your Corona Mu discussed in Episode number 303 I'm a teacher and adapted it into this little p s a poster for my classroom. And she includes a link to her Facebook page that has a diagram of a cow with the 6 ft average length of a cow mapped out on it and then below A little reminder. And for those of you that didn't catch Episode 303 The Corona move is something that we use up here on Paul Under road between the two Sending households is a social distance or physical distance reminder.

Speaker 1: If someone starts to over the course of ah enthusiastic social encounter, particularly one where there a lot of little kids around start to drift a little closer than 6 ft. We give him a Corona move. It's a little move, move. And it's a reminder that you want to stay, that cows length apart when you're hanging out right now.

Speaker 1: And we shared it on this show. This was something that Cindy Post Senning helped invent with her granddaughters. And we will share the poster itself. So this is kind of a visual.

Speaker 2: Uh, it gets salute

Speaker 1: on our social pages. If you've never checked out the awesome etiquette Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, I strongly encourage you to take a look because this is a great little poster. And

Speaker 1: it is a thank you to Cindy Post Senning from a teacher who was able to use this material. So thank you, Cindy Posts any for being here and for inventing the Corona Mu. And I can't wait to show you this poster.

Speaker 2: Great. I'm looking forward to looking at that poster

Speaker 2: and thank you to

Speaker 1: everyone who joined us today for a special show. Thank you for listening. Thank you to everyone who sent this something and thank you to everyone who supports us on patriotic. Please connect with us and share this show with friends, family and co workers. However you like to share podcast. That's how we get the word out.

Speaker 1: You can send us your next question. Feedback or salute by email toe Awesome medicated Emily post dot com You can leave us a message or text at 80285 a kind that's 80 to 8585463 on Twitter were at Emily Post Hints on Instagram. We're at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were Awesome Etiquette and the Emily Post Institute.

Speaker 1: Please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting patri on dot com slash awesome etiquette. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app. And if you've done this piece, consider leaving us a review. It helps with our show ranking, which helps new people find awesome etiquette.

Speaker 1: Our show was edited by Chris Albertine, assistant produced by Bridget Dowd.

Speaker 2: Thanks Kristen, Bridget