Episode 314 - Curbside Pickup Courtesy

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy that's old fashioned.

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Speaker 1: Watch how busy Post and Dan posts and act as host and hostess.

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Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Really Friendliness. Hello

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Speaker 2: and welcome toe Awesome etiquette,

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On

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Speaker 2: today's show, we take your questions on household helpers who don't wear deodorant. Unsolicited religious text messages. How to handle a wedding announcement when you're not sure if they'll be a belated reception and wearing a mask for curbside or window

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Speaker 1: pick up for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about throwing a party for someone with privacy concerns, plus your

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Speaker 2: most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript segment on wearing White after

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Speaker 1: Labor Day. All that coming up

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lizzie Post, and

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Speaker 1: I'm Dan Post, sending Good Morning,

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Speaker 2: cousin. So what's new? Because I know I was going to say we finally we finally get to record There was some some outdoor noise this morning that we had to wait for, Um, but yeah, what's going on? You had you had kind of an interesting topic for today's intro. You know, I was doing

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Speaker 1: a new interview that turned into more of, ah, sort of fun discussion with an old friend at the Pomona College magazine, and the whole arc of the interview was looking at things that have changed under coronavirus, how our social expectations have changed. And we talked about, you know, some different areas around greetings or how people get together things that are brand new, like wearing masks. But as the interview was winding down as the conversation was winding down,

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Speaker 1: the idea of what is going to stay changed and what do you think is going to come back? And what do you think is going to come back differently than we've experienced it before? Became the topic that was of interest to us, and I said to myself,

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Speaker 2: This sounds like a

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Speaker 1: intro topic for the podcast. I

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Speaker 2: wonder what was supposed would say because as I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about it from an Emily Post perspective, I found that I had some thoughts, some answers to those questions.

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Speaker 2: I would hope so. I mean, these air, definitely the kinds of questions that you and I have been getting in our media requests is you know, this world is different and we don't quite know how long it's going to be different for, But what will the handshake come back? Will the hug come back? Are we going to feel comfortable? Especially for those who have been under much stricter measures? I think you know the question is, how how comfortable are we gonna feel socializing being close together? Is it weird to be indoors? You know, without masks and fans and cross breeze is going on, you know, And and it's certainly something that you and I wrestled with as we talk just, you know, amongst ourselves, you know, outside of all the work conversations that we have is what is this going to be like? I think you know so much of that answer depends on the level of safety that we feel and experience in the aftermath of this, and that right now is an unknown. And so it's It makes the question really hard to answer, and it might be different for different people, depending on when they can roll out measures that allow us to come back thio some semblance of normal or at least move forward with something that we enjoy more. I'm gonna put it that way. I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about it from the perspective of things that have changed before and sure was was asking the question of myself. You know, over four generations, as the post family has steward of this tradition, there have been some things that have remained remarkably consistent. And I found

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Speaker 2: myself, Thank you. No, thank you know frankly, some

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Speaker 1: components of weddings, funerals, the way manners, the way we celebrate a birth table manners,

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Speaker 2: thes air

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Speaker 1: remarkably durable. And my feeling is that the spring back in tow, what has been familiar for generations, there is probably gonna happen in a way that is both comfortable. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna leave us in a place that looks very similar to the place we departed from in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: And it makes sense because a lot of us struggling with the new standards that were living with, you know, we do forget so easily and slip back and have to make apologies or or, you know, correct ourselves. And I think that that's Dan. You're right that that is probably in and of itself. Also just a good indication that like it will be easy for us to go back toe to some of these interactions that we have been missing and that we have been kind of putting aside even though their traditions for us.

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Speaker 1: Then there's the other side of the coin where I said to myself, what

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Speaker 2: has

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Speaker 1: changed that might stay changed and also looking backward.

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Speaker 1: Manners around communication have changed and evolved pretty much every time there's been a new technology or a big social shift, and now we're in a place where I don't even know what the numbers are. But something like 50% of the workforce is women, and that resulted in a lot of changes around professional expectations. So we've seen changes occur in the professional space and in the communication space that

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Speaker 1: have stuck where what's been durable isn't the tradition, but the change.

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Speaker 2: And what I do think is interesting is that even though generations will say Oh, you know, we raised our kids like this or Oh my gosh, our parents generation did it like that. Or you know what is socializing Now when we look at kind of our social and family worlds, things actually haven't changed too drastically. I mean, we have different family dynamics now. We have much broader definitions of family now, which I think are really good things. But the effects that we're feeling right now, so many of them are taking place in our social world. And I think you're right. The business world, the communications sector are places where we kind of absorbed changer have seen change or more familiar with change. But the social world or kind of our family dynamic world, it's been a little less so. And this could be good news or bad

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Speaker 1: news, depending on your perspective. I know some people don't ever want to

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Speaker 2: shake hands ever again people some positives to walk away from the intro, and we'll do you like shaking hands. I think shaking hands

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Speaker 1: is going to come back. I think that Z I think that's due for a return.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: I feel I feel like for those that are not huggers, they're they're like, That's when I could see e could see people being relieved, not having toe feel the hug pressure so much. But no, you're right. It is. It is kind of all

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Speaker 1: in perspective. So how do we draw a line where we say the handshake could come back? But let's keep the hug social, not

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Speaker 2: professional. I think we do the thing we've always done, and we talk about the appropriateness of each given its circumstances and given the people involved. And we do our best to refine if somehow we didn't get it right. And I think you and I encourage people to be aware of the fact that just because you're a hugger doesn't mean everyone else is Lizzie

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Speaker 1: Post. That is really good advice.

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Speaker 2: Eso you know who else could

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Speaker 1: probably use some good

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Speaker 2: advice? Our audience,

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Speaker 1: people who've submitted

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Speaker 2: questions? I think that's a great idea. But before we get to some questions, I want to say that we are very excited to announce that our wonderful card maker, Isa Salazar, has a deal going this week from September 14th to 17th. When you purchase any to Emily Post greeting card collection box sets, you're going to receive a third free. Just put all three sets into your cart at check out and you'll automatically get the third one for free. Go Thio Isa Salazar. That's I s a s a l a z a r dot com Or you can visit Emily post dot com to view the collection.

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Speaker 2: Now, Dan, do you think we should get to some questions?

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Speaker 1: I do. And as soon as we're done with that, I'm gonna go order my Emily postcards because there are a couple I need to give people. And this is the right time to dio. Very nice. Let's do it. Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We're at Emily Post Inst on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social posts so that we know you want your question on the

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Speaker 2: show

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Speaker 2: Our first question is titled Deodorant Dilemma.

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Speaker 2: Hi. We recently welcomed a new live in nanny. Gosh, I bet I know where this is going. She is wonderful. However, our one gripe is that she has terrible body odor. She is from Germany and brand new to the U. S. I know that Americans tend to be more critical of body odor, but it is bad. She does shower fairly regularly and smells nice for an hour to after the shower. But then it's back. We had to go for a long drive recently, and I told her and the other adults in the group that we would all definitely need to shower each day and wear deodorant. On the second day when the smell persisted. I even bought her deodorant and handed it to her after a rest stop. She never used it. I'm at a loss of what? To dio help. We swear this was not placed by our sponsor. Do we? Do we know this is a tough one? I mean, we've kind of jumped over. I don't want to say the wrong things to Dio. I'm guessing that when you did the long drive with the group that it was kind of in a joking way that you were saying, Boy, being all close together, we're all gonna have to shower and where lots of the odor. And, you know, I'm hoping that it wasn't what we probably wouldn't recommend, which is very instructive of. We're going to be on a road trip with people and you need to shower and wear deodorant. I am hoping I'm hoping, but, Dan, we get this question in a different way, but through work. And technically this is an employee and an employer situation. But it happens in the home. What do you What do you think? From a business standpoint we need to be thinking about here. I am

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Speaker 1: definitely gonna wrap my arms around that business framework that to me this is a clear employer employee relationship issue, and I think you need to approach it that way. Um, it's the kind of thing that needs to be approached with a little care, and at the same time, you also need to be able to address the issue, and this is a problem you're dealing with. Idol was a co worker, an employee who was a personal hygiene issue that's impacting their professional work, and they deserve to know about it is the way that I would sort of think about it, that it's not about blaming them or accusing them. It's it's really about helping them be a better employee for you. I think that you're right, Lizzie. That the the sort of the details, the specifics of Did you mention it in front of other people? Is it specific to this car ride to me? I would have a much more general conversation. I would wanna have a new employer employee check in. I would plan to talk about several things, both the things that are going well and the things that need improvement or that you would like to see some work on. I would have ideas in mind ahead of time. I would have some suggestions. I would also prepare myself to listen and to hear what someone else says, What their perspective is

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Speaker 1: that I would tell myself that we're not necessarily going to get to a conclusion in that call. It might take this person a minute to digest everything that they've heard, but I would also know what my bottom line is, I would make it a point to clearly present what the issue is. So the theme employee in this case, Ah, live in nanny has an opportunity to fix it, and that's gonna be important to them.

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Speaker 2: And with that Dan, I also want to encourage you to leave room for the possibility that this is something they can't change just with extra deodorant or a twice a day shower type situation, or by becoming aware that it's even a problem. There are times where medications that people are on or just their personal body does have an aroma, and it might be unpleasant to you. And that is its. It's a harder thing to change in that case, um, that, you know, if it's something that the usual like kind of normal hygiene practices don't fix on their own. And I do just like to leave a little bit of a room for that and and sadly, then, if you are in kind of that serious of a situation and it is this bad for you, you may have to make some decisions. And Danny Mike is that Does that sound way off base to say that

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Speaker 2: No, it's why I

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Speaker 1: like the professional context because you're talking about both someone's livelihood and them playing an important role, a role that you're paying them to perform. And there's responsibility on both sides of that relationship. So I like your reminder that you might learn some things as this discussion develops, that change your perspective. No, this is something she's aware of works hard at and knowing that I'm gonna be more flexible as an employer, I'm gonna think about I'm just gonna feel differently about it naturally, and that will affect the way I respond. You also might discover that it really just is about developing a certain personal grooming habits bond that that really resolves it and that someone really appreciates your helping them figure that out

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Speaker 2: or just becoming aware that it was even an issue.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. This is, ah, a problem that is relatively common. Believe it or not. As you pointed out at the start of of this answer,

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Speaker 1: So much so that it's a sample problem that we use when we're teaching business etiquette. How do you talk to a co worker or a colleague about ah, personal hygiene issue, a grooming issue that's impacting work. One of the slides that we have in our business presenting deck is a Siris of bullets that give little tips like do it in private, do it at a moment when the issue itself isn't immediately present. So someone's got a little space in their own mind to think about it and how they're gonna now deal with it. That your explicit about your good intentions, you say the things that you would want someone to know. And then you might assume they know I'm bringing this up because I care about you and your employment here. I want you to be successful in what you do. Say those things out loud. Make them part of the explicit context for the discussion that you're gonna have. Try not to be accusatory or demeaning in your language. You can

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Speaker 1: use phrases like if the shoe were on the other foot. I hope you would talk to me about something like this, or there's something that you may or may not be aware of that I wanted to talk to you about so that you give them the courtesy of

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Speaker 1: not assuming where they're coming from or that they're even aware that this is an issue,

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Speaker 2: Although in this particular case, the one thing I wouldn't do would be to point out the number of times you've tried to bring it up like I don't think I would say when I was saying this, I really meant that like, you know what I mean. I wouldn't kind of give that kind of a history weight to it. Everything else that that Dan's been saying I think is right on the money for sure. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that could be hard for people in that conversation is saying the difficult thing, So practice saying it a couple times ahead of time. I'm even having a hard time saying it as a sample script. There is an issue with body odor when we take long car rides, or I have concerns about body odor when we're interacting with my guests, or maybe it's about the living space in your home. Whatever it is, be prepared to say the thing that you're most concerned about, because this person also deserves that

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Speaker 2: I'm having a strong reaction to your body odor. That might be another way of just taking the ownership of the fact that it's you are the one having the reaction to the body odor. Despite this

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Speaker 1: being a problem that other people have wrestled with, It is a difficult problem, and I do not envy you having this difficult conversation.

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Speaker 1: We wish you the best. We have confidence that you can do it and you can do it well. Please let us know how it goes.

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Speaker 2: Remember, you can't have good looks without soap and water. There is no substitute for the daily bath as a groundwork for glamour. Keep that air of freshness by using a deodorant regularly. It's a shortcut to Social Security.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is about texting testaments. Hi, Lizzie and Daniel. Please advise this Southerner on unsubscribe ing from a daily annoyance. The husband of my mother's best friend text me a Bible verse every morning around 5 a.m. I have known him since childhood as an acquaintance and friend of the family. I did not request thes texts, and I'm no longer religious, which I would prefer to be kept private out of politeness. I have been ignoring them for a year. How doe I politely get these texts to stop without rejecting his kind gesture, damaging our relationship and involving my mother's friendship. Sincerely Anonymous

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Speaker 2: O anonymous. I can feel that frustration also because it's coming at 5 a.m. Which I I mean the obvious to is, is set whatever you can to make sure that you're not getting your sleep disrupted, especially by unwanted text messages that do come every single morning. But I'm curious we've got the issue here of normally, I would say Go to mom and say, You know, is there any way we can kind of go through the grapevine toe, get the morning text messages to stop, But here you don't want Mom to know that you don't want to be getting Bible verses in the morning As you say, you want it to be kept private and so I can see the dilemma and also just the dilemma of your smart to see it as a kind gesture and to sort of not know how to take a kind gesture that you just don't want to be receiving and and turn it around, and it is a difficult thing. Um, Dan, the only thing I'm not sure about is do you have to respond to him, Or do you feel obligated to respond to him? And is that that why the message? Dessert? Annoying? Because otherwise, wouldn't you just ignore it? Um, I right. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of the route I tend to lean, but

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Speaker 2: okay, because we don't usually advocate ghosting, right? No, but but but But but But what things I tryto

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Speaker 1: fight with myself in my own inclinations on this show is to just disengaged to make a problem go away. So for me, the cost of ignoring that text daily is so minimal, Um, if it's not alerting and waking me up at five o'clock every morning that I ignore so many emails that come into my inbox And these days, so many political texts that come into my phone the idea of ignoring one mawr for the sake of harmony in my mother's relationship with someone doesn't feel like a big jump for me. I could see how something like this could feel very different, how it could feel pushy or invasive or like someone is trying to include you in a Tier two conversation that you don't want to be included in that you've made decisions about how you approach faith or agnosticism or or non faith in your life, and

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Speaker 1: that you really don't appreciate this as much as you appreciate it and the thought that instantly jumped by it. As I read this question is, thanks but no thanks that we have something in our mind that communicates very clearly what we would want to communicate here. I appreciate your including me. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for thinking of me and making the effort.

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Speaker 1: But a five o'clock text really doesn't work for me, and I would like to be removed from this list. And as I think that to myself, I think I

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Speaker 2: think you could text

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Speaker 1: that to somebody. I don't think that would be an unreasonable thing. It's direct to the person in the medium that the messages are coming in and might be a really easy light touch way to nip this in the bud.

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Speaker 2: But do we know if this is a group text? Because, as you said, like removed me from the list? If it's a group text, I think that does get a lot easier. But if it's a direct message just to you each morning, I mean it's, I think, that it's a It's a little harder to give it the generic. Remove me, please. I

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Speaker 1: would. Then I would modify that language and definitely say, Please appreciate it. Please stop sending these. Oh, that sounds a little

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Speaker 2: tough. It didn't know it is. And it's It's why Anonymous is struggling with it because it does feel tough. It's as Aziz, you say, boy, it seems so low cost to just ignore it if you don't have to be responding to it. But if it is actually a heavier cost, then saying the words you know, I'd really appreciate actually not receiving a Bible verse every morning. I hope you can understand. I feel like, you know, anonymous will be the one to have to decide, you know, but one thing that I do appreciate, and I want to give Anonymous some gold stars for our for thinking about her mother's friendship in this case, because these are people that are very close to the family. And I do also wonder if even a direct reply just simply saying I'd rather not receive these would end up getting back to Mom, and so again I keep coming back to anonymous. You're kind of the only one who is going to know whether it's gonna be better toe actually say the words to someone or to just keep ignoring it. But those seem to be the two pads like we keep coming too, right? Yeah. And I'll tell you,

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Speaker 1: though, even our struggles with the exact language forced me to think a little bit more about what it is exactly. You're asking the person to stop. And the example that was in my mind was a tech these texts at five in the morning and you said these Bible verses or these texts of Bible verses and those

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Speaker 2: two

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Speaker 1: different replies might be read differently because they're actually different. In one, you're engaging with a conversation about the content, and in another you're engaging in a conversation about the time and repetition

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Speaker 2: more about the hour and, yeah, repetition. Sure, that might be a better way to focus it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I might choose to keep the focus on time and repetition just sort of reducing clutter. There's an emerging courtesy in a world where we're all asked to sort and filter so much information on a daily basis that you don't clutter people's information, streams with things they wouldn't want to see. And I think that there is a sort of a reciprocal courtesy that is becoming something that I'm more familiar with, which is asking someone to stop sending something.

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Speaker 2: It's a thing that lean on, opt out, and it is, It is.

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Speaker 1: This is a more personal opt out, but I do think it's it's okay to do, and I don't think it would be rude. Toe asked to not be getting a text every morning that you didn't ask for.

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Speaker 2: You know, of course, that the comedy in My brain pictures this being a sitcom issue where that's the advice, it goes out. And then the next day at noon, Anonymous is receiving possibilities with Bible for since it's like you know, But I do. I do hear you, I do hear you. It's kind of like for first wave effort, lean, lean in the direction of just it's easy to cancel receiving something that's repetitive right now. I think you're right that that kind of were a bit more used to that nowadays, anonymous. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: this question. While there are some really broad thoughts and ideas here. This is a pretty personal situation. We wish you the best whichever route you decide to take. There's a lot to think and talk about on the subject of manners and many good reasons to ask our manners. Important.

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Speaker 2: This next question is titled Weird Wording on a post wedding ceremony. Invite. Hello. I am in need of some direction and help please do to Covad. 19. My son and his sweet fiance were married in our local courthouse last week. They had originally planned to have a large wedding in April of 2021 may still have a second ceremony and reception, but are reluctant to commit to a date due to the uncertainty caused by the current pandemic. My question is, should announcements be sent and how should they be worded? We're very happy for them and want to share happiness with our family and friends, but don't know how to go about this. Thanks so much for your help, Gail.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, Gail, congratulations. This is exciting news, and I can understand why you would want to share it. My sort of big thought is and I'm hoping that Lizzie will confirm or deny it, that you could go ahead and send those announcements. I can feel your excitement about this, and I think other people would want to hear they've been married. Your You have crossed the line where you can send that announcement and let people know. One of the great things about announcements is unlike invitations to ceremonies and receptions, two weddings themselves they don't carry with them the same. I don't wanna call it a requirement, but the same sort of social expectation that someone replies with a gift. So you don't have to think quite as hard about who you send them to a za Long is. What you're announcing

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Speaker 1: is something that's already happened, because how am I doing?

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Speaker 2: I think you're doing pretty well. I think my big question for Gail is How was it handled that we when you canceled the original April 2021 plans? I think that that's the one thing I would take into consideration here. I don't know how far down the line of planning they had gotten, whether it was just securing things, but not yet any guests or invitations sent out. If it had gotten to the point where save the dates or any kind of an invitation had gone out, or if even they had called their bridal party members. I think the one thing I would make sure I did before I sent the announcements out in the mail, I would really make sure that you've connected with anyone who had really been planning on that April 21 wedding to make sure that they knew that you were getting married. I am guessing that you've done that, that you've done the talking and that anybody who was really in the loop and connected or planning on the April wedding had been made aware that it wasn't happening and that instead you were doing something else and would maybe plan something beyond that later. I don't think you need Thio announce anything on the announcement itself that there may or may not be a party later. I think you just focus on the fact that the actual marriage happened and that you guys were really happy to be celebrating that, Um, and when you're ready to announce and and plan and work on, you know, a belated reception, then you could do that because I just

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Speaker 1: started to get excited over here.

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Speaker 2: Why are you going to someone canceled weddings for belated receptions or something? I started to think about belated receptions. We might get a little wave of parties

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Speaker 1: here A some point where we get to celebrate with people.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling that whenever this is over, I think there's going to be a lot of partying for a lot of people for a long time. I I think that once we can really feel feel safe, gathering again is gonna be. I'm hopeful that it will be nonstop for a while, so get up. I

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Speaker 1: agree. I like the point of clarity about touching base with people who might have been included in original wedding planning if they don't already know that something else has happened, giving them a little heads up. I like that. The other sort of detail thought that I had was it also might be a natural part of that conversation that people ask you

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Speaker 2: if you're planning more

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Speaker 1: public ceremony or reception at some point and an answer very similar to the one you gave here. Yes, we're really hoping Thio Of course, no one can commit to anything yet, but we will be sure to keep you posted If that's the case or, um, what do you say to somebody? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Or don't say that if you're talking to someone who's not invited to the way that ladies and gentlemen, was Dan just painting himself into a corner with the sample script? No, but it's true. You want to kind of come up for language with Oh, thank you so much. We decided that, you know, with with everything going on, it was really best to just have our wedding and really enjoy being married and being together. That's the answer for for the folks who you don't wanna potentially invite to a party later on for anyone who's definitely yeah, for anyone who is definitely going to be invited to a party later on, then you can obviously say, you know, we are hoping to do something once everyone can gather again. But until we really have a clear idea of when that is, we're gonna hold off making plans. But we'll let you know when we dio. Um, but that's just that way. You are prepared just in case either. Either group asks

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Speaker 1: questions. Lizzy, thank you for getting me out of that corner before I had to wait for the paint to dry.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Dan, should we just keep playing with that one? Gail, we certainly hope that you aren't painted into a corner over this and that you all get to really celebrate. Enjoy both the wedding now and hopefully the celebration later.

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Speaker 1: Oh,

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Speaker 1: and

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Speaker 1: our next question is about curbside caution. Dear Lizzie and Dan. I always wear a mask when going inside any establishment work, grocery store, restaurant, etcetera. And never question if I should. The answer is always yes.

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Speaker 1: Where I draw a blank and struggle is when it comes to drive throughs and curbside pick ups. Should I be wearing a mask? In these instances, everyone working the drive thru is always wearing a mask. I tend to frequent the chick fil A near me, so most of the time my order is taken by a real person Instead of just talking to the menu board. Whenever I get curbside, they're wearing a mask is well, should I be wearing one always and get in? The habit is well, sometimes I don't have one on hand in the car because I don't think about it since I'm not leaving my vehicle. But I still have to roll down my window to have a short interaction with the drive through or take out employees. If I happen to have one on hand, I do try to remember, to put it on. Any guidance would be very helpful as we continue to navigate this very bizarre year, thanks to mask or not to mask,

00:32:04

Speaker 2: to mask or not to mask. It's a great question. And while we aren't health and safety experts, our courtesy side says you wear it because we also say to where it when the server comes over to your table because they're making the effort. It's really nice for you to make the effort to I also on our just a personal level, believe that that when each person is wearing one, you're just that much safer, Um, and so that that to me, I'm someone who thinks that way about it. And so for me, I would say Go for it. But that's That's me, Dan, what do you say on this?

00:32:40

Speaker 1: I say wear it and I have a sort of a personal reflection on this is that I've been asked to wear it. I am Mr Curbside pickup. I love groups I'd pick up. We talk about things that might stay changed. I don't know if I'm ever gonna pick out my own groceries ever again. I love driving in hitting the button on my phone. Out they come load up my trunk away I go when the groceries air brought out, it's a courtesy, and they asked early on to set up the standard that the people in the car and all you're doing is sitting in the car with your trunk open. They asked that you wear your mask and I think about the parade of people that, um, people who work and drive throughs or a curbside pick ups interact with and deal with every day. And I go right to that. Thought you had Lizzie, which is if we're both doing it. We're both that much more protected, and for the person that's providing that service, they're interacting with potentially a lot of people. So I think it's it's a really to me, it's almost an obvious courtesy. I really think that you should do it.

00:33:40

Speaker 1: The other thought that I had here was about,

00:33:44

Speaker 1: um, ese in times of difficulty and how that just shows such grace and such poise that those really are, oftentimes opportunities to shine when things get awkward or when times get difficult and figuring out a routine where you keep a couple extra masks in your car so that you're never caught unawares, I think, is one way to start toe. Introduce some of that ease into your life. You think ahead a little bit, you prepare a little bit, and it makes having those personal interactions where you're able to show courtesy that much easier

00:34:15

Speaker 2: to master not to mask. We say mask up, and we hope this helps. But if in spite of all these precautions, you still come down with a cold, let us repeat,

00:34:26

Speaker 2: take it to bed and stay there until it has run its course. This is the safest way to regain your health

00:34:34

Speaker 2: and to return as quickly as possible

00:34:38

Speaker 2: toe work

00:34:39

Speaker 2: to fun

00:34:42

Speaker 2: on to play.

00:34:43

Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers. Toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can also leave a voicemail or text message at 802858 k i n d. That's 8028585463 Or you can reach us on social media on Twitter. We're at Emily Post inst on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just remember to use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your Social Media post so that we know you want your question on

00:35:13

Speaker 1: the show.

00:35:16

Speaker 1: If

00:35:17

Speaker 2: you love

00:35:17

Speaker 1: awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting us at patryan dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get in ads, free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing that you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air. And to those of you who are already sustaining members, thank you for your support.

00:35:37

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover. And today we're hearing from Lubna via Patryan. Hi,

00:35:47

Speaker 1: Dan and Lizzie. I don't remember what episode it waas, but it

00:35:50

Speaker 2: was the

00:35:50

Speaker 1: one about eating with a spoon or fork for rice. I am a Pakistani background but was born and raised in Canada. I grew up eating with a fork. It made sense. I never questioned it. However, my husband is also of Pakistani background and grew up in the Middle East. But always eat with a spoon unless it's something like steak or salad.

00:36:11

Speaker 1: Ever since that episode, I have noticed Mawr people eating with a spoon, and I try to figure out what the correlation is. I look where they grew up, what their background is, and I haven't come up with any conclusive results. My Children are all following in their father's footsteps and eat rice with a spoon. We talk about it and they can't understand how I can't eat it with a fork. Thought I would share my insight on this topic. Love, DNA,

00:36:35

Speaker 2: Latina Thank you so much for the feedback. This is a favorite between us. E. No, and we We don't know what episode that was in either, but we remembered the lunch where it came up between us and the restaurant we were eating and what we were having, and it was one of those delightful moments where different styles of eating came together at the table. And it was It was kind of fun, the two of us laughing about it, you know, especially given that we talk about utensils and dining and what fork to use for what or spoon or

00:37:09

Speaker 1: you dental to use for what. And while we haven't figured out a firm system for this one yet, either, it's somewhat comforting to know there are other people out there with the same question in their minds.

00:37:20

Speaker 2: A big debate between rice with a spoon or rice with a fork shall forever continue. Thank you for

00:37:27

Speaker 1: sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your next feedback or update toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:37:41

Speaker 2: It's time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and this week we're going to talk about wearing white after Labor Day, and we know that it is indeed after labor day. At this point, we're actually bringing this up because Dan tell me if I'm right. Isn't this one of our most viewed pieces of content?

00:38:01

Speaker 1: Is it an old rule? Is it a new rule? It's hard to know. But one thing that's not hard to know is that this is one of the most searched and viewed pieces of etiquette content we share at the Emily Post Institute. And whether you're looking at page views on our website, it is consistently one of the highest rankers. Or if you're looking at the number of views or shares or engagements that Social Media Post gets

00:38:28

Speaker 1: our post about wearing white after Labor Day is

00:38:32

Speaker 1: orders of magnitude mawr engaging than any other piece of content that we put out there? I mean, add multiple zeros to the end of our usual post engagement around our post about wearing white after Labor Day, and this is consistent year after year, I figured I would read the Post to give us something to jump off for him.

00:38:51

Speaker 2: I was going to say you should definitely read, read it to give us something to jump off from, and I think one of the things audience that has Dan and I so quasi baffled about this is that this is like old etiquette that very few people follow nowadays, right? Well, let's

00:39:08

Speaker 1: hear a modern take on wearing white after Labor Day White can be worn 365 days a year. The old rule about wearing white Onley between Memorial Day and Labor Day is a thing of the past. The rule used to apply toe white shoes, clothes and handbags. Today, seasonal fashion guidelines are based on the weight of the fabric, not the color. That's it. That's the post that gets

00:39:32

Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of views. Yeah, What I find so fascinating about this quote unquote rule is that I think most of us have known for a long time that that white can be worn after Labor Day. I mean, we go to stores during the winter months in the fall months, and we see cream colored sweaters and pants and scarves and hats and jackets and things, and so it surprises me. But this that this rule still will stick in someone's head, even if they had no idea that it was, you know previously, I think previously connected as even mawr of a separator and like a signal of Of whether you you knew fashionable etiquette or not, you know what I mean. And now it's like it's so funny to me because you do see White all throughout the year, all 365 days. But people still think, Wait, do you wear white after Labor Day? It's like legend. It is

00:40:31

Speaker 1: kind of a legendary etiquette question, and I

00:40:35

Speaker 2: don't think that's by accident, even

00:40:37

Speaker 1: though it's very discreet. We're talking about a very specific thing, sort of a specific transitional moment. But it's the transitional nature of that moment and how it impacts so many areas of etiquette that I think make this something that sticks in people's mind, something that's lasted. You're talking about not just a transition between seasons, the passage of time, but you're also talking about

00:41:01

Speaker 1: transitioning locations along with it. So when this rule was first rule was first in place, it was describing ah, social expectation, where people were moving from summer homes to winter residences, oftentimes from the country back to the city. With that came a shift in your social environment and expectations. For many people, it was a return toe work. But it was definitely a shift in terms of the the social life that people were engaged in. And with that change came changes in the way you presented yourself, your image and attire. So we're talking about friends. We're talking about homes. We're talking about jobs. We're talking about what you wear. It's actually a really big question. There's Ah lot of Intersectionality here around this question of white after Labor Day.

00:41:48

Speaker 2: So I hear you on transitions being a part of how this rule came about. But what I don't understand is why was White always worn in these more specific summer months? And then the idea was that you wouldn't be wearing white in the winter months. I mean, you talked about location and you talked about the social circles being different, and we talked about temperatures and seasons changing. But what about all of that made white the thing that was okay in the summer, but not okay in the winter?

00:42:22

Speaker 1: I wish I could say I knew exactly, but by my guess is, and my impression is that part of it was style and fashion that you're wearing your tennis whites, your croquet whites and

00:42:36

Speaker 1: those air activities that are happening in the summer at those summer homes and estates. And it's just less likely that you're engaged in that sort of thing when you're in your city residents in the winter. I also think there's a practical question involved here. I always thought of cities as potentially more dirty places, and you might just not wanna wear white attire while you're going about your business in the early 19 hundreds in the city of New York and when everything's based on coal. Whereas you might get away with wearing that same outfit at a summer home and it just doesn't end up getting his dirty. So I think there's a practical question that comes into play. Also,

00:43:17

Speaker 2: I swear practicality always ends up as an element of etiquette. If it's something that's going to stick through, I do think this is a really interesting topic for me. The fascinating place comes from the idea that we're all well aware that we don't wear white only you know after only before Labor Day or between Memorial Day and Labor Day, and yet we all still come back to that question. Wait, wait, do we do we? Is there a rule about this? It's the It's the legendary nous of this that to me

00:43:46

Speaker 1: really, really makes it a fun etiquette topic. Well, how nice is it to have a rule where you could just say alright? Labor Day? Everything goes in a trunk, other trunk gets opened, decisions are made.

00:43:57

Speaker 2: I'll let you say it's nice. I'll say, I am happy that we have the freedom of our 365 days of getting to wear white.

00:44:06

Speaker 2: After all, the way we look exert so much influence on the way we feel on the way other people feel about us, that it really is very important.

00:44:18

Speaker 2: We like to

00:44:19

Speaker 1: end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out

00:44:24

Speaker 2: in the world, and that can come in

00:44:26

Speaker 1: so many forms.

00:44:27

Speaker 2: Today. We have

00:44:28

Speaker 1: anonymous salute that comes with a question.

00:44:30

Speaker 2: Dear Dan and Lizzie. This morning, my three year old 13 month old and I were sitting on our front yard and the garbage truck came by as you may know the garbage truck could be the highlight of many kids days.

00:44:44

Speaker 2: My Children watched the truck with extreme focus and fascination. The driver noticed and generously got out of the truck and handed my three year old to lollipops with instructions to give one to his little sister. It was so sweet just that he would stop his work and take the time to be kind to my kids. I thanked him. But then I told him my 13 month old could not have lollipops yet. Is there a better way to turn down candy so thoughtfully given when the child who it is intended for cannot have it? Thank you and also thank you to all the sanitation workers who keep our streets clean. Mom

00:45:23

Speaker 1: of two, Mom of two. What a sweet story as ah, Dad of a just over one year old just over three year old who sits around and waits for the delivery people that come so we can wave and say I to them, I so appreciate your appreciation for those services and for the kindness that was shown to your kids as far as how to turn it down at the risk of turning an etiquette salute into, ah, question that gets answered. It sounds like you did a good job. I'm sure that he appreciated you making decisions about sugar and a one year old mom of two. Thank you so much for this salute.

00:46:00

Speaker 1: Thank you for listening on thank you to everyone who sent us something and thank you to everyone who supports us on Patryan.

00:46:09

Speaker 2: Please connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and co workers. And on social media,

00:46:15

Speaker 1: you can send us questions, feedback or salutes by email. Toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on Twitter We're at Emily Post Inst on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook Were Awesome Etiquette and the Emily Post Institute.

00:46:37

Speaker 2: Please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patryan dot com slash awesome etiquette. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app, and please consider leaving us a review because it helps more people find the awesome

00:46:55

Speaker 1: etiquette podcast. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine and assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks, Thanks, Kris and Brigitte.