Episode 335 - Fanatic
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on bringing friends as wedding plus-ones, improving your child’s conversation skills, neighbors who use your property without permission, and repaying family members for their generosity. For Awesome Etiquette sustaining members our question is a followup to one from last week about letting people know you’ve received their gifts. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and postscript where we discuss being a fan.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy that's old fashioned.
Speaker 1: Watch how busy post and damn posts and act as host and hostess.
Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Really Friendliness.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome toe Awesome etiquette,
Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On
Speaker 2: today's show, we take your questions on bringing friends as wedding plus ones, improving your child's conversation skills, neighbors who use your property without permission and repaying family members for their generosity
Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is a follow up toe one from last week about letting people know you've received their gifts,
Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript where we discuss being a fan. All
Speaker 1: that coming up
Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Lizzie Post
Speaker 1: and I'm Dan Post sending
Speaker 2: hey, because it's like way of our favorite days
Speaker 1: way. Don't
Speaker 2: normally recorded the podcast on a Sunday when it airs on Mondays, but this week we are and it happens to be Super Bowl Sunday. Yea, for no parties,
Speaker 1: you for something to think
Speaker 2: about. You know, like an event that, well that many will watch together. That'll be nice. I don't participate in that many of those.
Speaker 2: No, but it is. It's it's Super Bowl Sunday and you and I have been dreaming up our plans for what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Which piece of meat comes out of the freezer burn? Who's on the
Speaker 2: text? Grew. How much do you actually have to make given that it's just you in the living room tonight? You know,
Speaker 1: it'll probably be a little dial back. It'll be exactly the things I love.
Speaker 2: E. I was thinking about that, too. I was like, It won't be a buffet, but will be all the things I really like to eat at the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl, because is steak with foie gras bad form? Take it down a notch, man.
Speaker 2: E dare you to buy a beer. But no, it is. It's fun. I'm excited to kind of have something to think about doing this evening, but it means that, like we've got a lot of work to do today to get to the point where football can be feed up watching Tom Brady once again, just
Speaker 1: in case this doesn't come out until Monday. We won't. We won't talk. So
Speaker 2: I'm not a bitter Saints fan right now. Not at all. Who?
Speaker 1: Dad, Pooch and I have an ongoing philosophical discussion about the nature of being a Tom Brady fan. And it's not easy. It's not easy. Over 20 years, a lot of people have lost a lot of games to Tom E. I understand this. I dio I understand it.
Speaker 2: Do you guys want me to let him just keep going? Because he'll keep going for a while of the Let
Speaker 1: him? We'll probably by Monday. Everyone's laughing at me, so well, I'll take. I'll take my disease. We'll
Speaker 2: see. We'll see what happens. But football aside, that's this weekend. Last weekend, you went to visit some relatives, and you guys had, like, a really great like weekend away from the hill, which is like, very rare for you these days. I love you, left the zip code safely. We should we should add. There were plenty of measures taken there were, but you said that it was so great, because your your kids aren't in in situations where they're seeing other kids a lot right now and to see their little cousins. And you said that they have, like, all grown up a little bit since you are. So you know, like the dynamics and the interactions are different this
Speaker 1: time. Oh, my goodness. Aria wasn't speaking in sentences the last time we have together, she wasn't even saying words. Uh, it's so nice to watch the Children play. It's really the thing. I mean, as you know, and we won't talk about it a lot, but the book is the book, and we're working on that. So I get down there and I pretty much take my laptop out and set up office upstairs in a spare bedroom.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you very much. By the way, I really appreciated that.
Speaker 1: So my adult time was I mean, delicious, but not long. But the thing that I found myself just e would hear it happening. And I would, you know, find myself up opening the door and walking downstairs. Was the Children laughing? It was just incredible. And and I could go on and on about what I would find when I would get downstairs. Sometimes it would be, um, just, you know, laughter and play. Mylan, a Nisha's cousin, had been so looking forward to her arrival that he had made little cards that he had put up all over the house, wishing her Happy birthday and telling her how much he loved her. Oh my gosh, I know all in creative spelling one word sentences. And yet when you broke it down, it was all there. Um, he's brilliant, but
Speaker 1: other times it's, um you come downstairs and it's a fight. It's an absolute fight, and yet there's this whole performative aspect to it. It's like they wake up and there they look for each other. They're like little heat seeking particles. You know where there's, like attractive quality and at the same time as they're bumping off each other. Sometimes it's it's friction, and but it's almost like they like the fighting more than the playing. It's
Speaker 2: well, yeah, if you haven't had someone else toe like like, you know, shove around all day like it's weird how much all the different aspects of interaction seem to be things that when we have been isolated. And then we come together. We like exercise, you know? It's like joy and the love and the like. Chance toe, like go at it with someone a little bit like it. Zero were strange little
Speaker 1: humans
Speaker 2: s, but it did it. It sounded like it was just what the family needed in the depths of winter when you've been up on the mountain top, you know, on your own. Like getting out stirring the pot. Yeah, exactly. Perfect medicine. Totally. Totally, Totally. Well, I'm certainly very glad to have you back. I'm excited for football later today, but for now, do you think we should get to some questions? Let's
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 1: Awesome. Etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can also leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We're at Emily Post Inst on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that We know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 2: Our first question is titled Plus one problem.
Speaker 2: Dear Lizzie and Dan, Thank you so much for your show. I have a question about wedding plus ones. Is it acceptable to bring a friend as a plus one to a wedding? Or is that reserved for significant others? If the latter. How significant does the other have to be? If the former are there any conditions that go along with it? Friend must know the bride and groom bring a gift, etcetera. Any guidance you have would be so appreciated. All the best. Trying to be a good wedding guest.
Speaker 1: Hey, good wedding guest. Thank you for thinking about this. And thank you for the question. Lizzie Post. Did you feed me a wedding question on purpose? Was this just a test? Me? I think I could do it. I think I could do it.
Speaker 2: I was wondering why, Like, I just want to say, like, you know, we were discussing what was going to go on, and Dan said you read me Question one. And I was going really like usually you're like, you're like finding ways to manipulate the show so that I get all the wedding questions.
Speaker 1: Not true, not true. Kind of true, but not true. It's
Speaker 2: ironic you're the one of the two of us has done it, but yeah, no, this is, Ah, wedding question. I wonder if you can remember back to our conversation with the posts of big friendship to find the answer for this one. It did come
Speaker 1: up in our big friendship show conversation, and I think one of the reasons I like this piece of wedding etiquette is that to me it's a pretty clear piece of advice that we can give that maybe feels a little new to some people. But it makes so much sense. I think it's one that you can feel really confident about at this point. And the way it breaks down is that the wedding hosts really have discretion and latitude about who they give a plus one, too. If someone has a spouse of significant other a long term partner, they're included in the invitation. It's not a question for people that are single or who don't have a long term partner. It's really up to the host of the wedding to decide. But once they offer that plus one to someone, it's really up to that person who they share that with who they extend the +12 It becomes their invitation to pass on, and in many ways you can think of it or not, just in many ways. But I think one of the ways that I like to think of it is that it's about you having company at the wedding. You having someone there who's with you, And there could be all kinds of reasons for that. But it's just oftentimes nice to have that company at the wedding. And in some ways, you're role becomes a dual role at that point because you then become a host for your
Speaker 2: guest for your plus one. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And to Me and Lizzie pose. This is where I think we get into a little bit of the subtlety of the question that confers on you some of the responsibility for being sure that your guest feels comfortable. You give them enough information to participate well, who are the major players if they don't know them? And I'm also guessing that you're going to take the responsibility for that gift. How am I doing? Because
Speaker 2: pretty good. I would say that when it comes Thio the question of sort of how significant does this other have to be? This is where I think Dan's right. You're a host. You're also a guest. And so I'm not gonna bring anybody that I'm not sure of how they behave. So if I've just been dating someone for only a month, I actually might not invite them to a wedding I'm going to Unless I'm really sure that I know how they are, you know, kind of out in these types of situations. Maybe. Maybe we've been really seeing each other every day, and I've got a great sense. Maybe we've only actually been on a couple of dates. And I don't want to risk my friend's wedding being a situation where someone, you know that I don't know well enough ends up being my responsibility. Eso That's one thing I try to think of in terms of who, More broadly, I don't think we have to stop it. Friends, I could easily see myself asking a cousin to join and be a companion with me at a wedding. I could easily see like I don't know. Maybe you wanna bring your mom, cause it be a fun party. And she likes weddings, You know what I mean? Um, but I like the way that you framed it. Dan, when you said this is about someone choosing toe offer you company or a companion to come with you for the evening and that that really can at this point in time, be anybody and it's really funny. My mom always makes the point when it comes to plus ones that in her day and age, you didn't give out plus ones because often weddings were a place for single people to meet other people sort of in in their world. You know, through networking, friends of friends, cousins of cousins like, you know, and that it's a it's a good place to kind of network mingle and meet new people. And so that's another thing to think about when you go to a wedding. If you can hang on your own, it can be really, really fun. And you're totally free to do whatever you want. I mean, like within the proper guest roles. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: totally intrigued. What are your thoughts on declining to bring a plus one. If you've been offered one.
Speaker 2: Oh super easy and usually host Love you for it. You just simply sign. Sign your name as you would you know. So for me it would be Miss Lizzie Post, and that's That's it. I don't you know. You don't have to say I decline the plus one. It's just you're not adding their name to the thing and you're not. Maybe checking two meals instead of, you know you're you're checking one meal instead of two. So it's it's It's really, really simple. And you can always say thank you. So, you know, if you talk to the host, you could always say Thank you so much for offering. Um, I'm I'm actually kind of stoked to go on my own, like, you know, because that's it. It is really fun,
Speaker 1: you know, because we've answered a lot of wedding questions, but that's a new angle, something I hadn't considered before.
Speaker 1: Trying to be a good wedding guest. We're sure that you are going to be a fantastic wedding guests and hope that this answer helps you along the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 1: what?
Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Conversations With My Kid,
Speaker 1: Dear Lizzie and Dan. I'm so grateful that you continue to share engaging relevant conversations with your lucky podcast audience. Thank you. My question has to do with my young adult son. He's in his early twenties and is a kind and caring person, as evidenced by his actions. For example, last year he stepped in to care for an ailing grand parent at home for over a month, and he is always willing to help his younger sisters with projects. However, this caring and engagement often doesn't fully shine through in conversations. We live at some distance from each other, and so our only contact is by phone or video these days, typically once or twice a week. He's always responsive when I suggest a chat. But once we get on the call, I feel that he's very passive. He answers any questions I ask of him, and I know to stay away from a tender topic or two and listens when I talk about what's new here. However, his responses air often rather brief. He almost never initiates a topic of conversation and rarely asks a follow up question. When I share something
Speaker 1: as his mom. I would like to gently encourage him to be, um, or engaging conversationalist. But I'm also aware that he's a young man and on his own, not a child under my roof. Is there a kind and helpful way to bring this up, or is it just not my place? I imagine developing these skills could be useful to him and nourishing other relationships is, well, many Thanks. Mom's calling.
Speaker 2: Oh, Mom's calling. I think this is a tough one because I think that you're a mom. And so you've spent, you know, all of his life, helping him be the best version of himself. He can. Or at least that's the goal, you know, and it's It's really hard when you see that not shining through in every aspect, but I think that's really human. I am sure that the way I talk on the phone to Dan is different from the way I talk on the phone with my mom and dad or maybe with my sister or with a girlfriend on DSO. I might just chalk this up to like and I hate to say this, but like the mom status, you know where it's like my mom's calling. I'm gonna kind of keep it short on dough, that sort of thing. Also, to make it less personal. Some people just aren't phone talkers like it's just not the place where they where word is great where they shine through. Um, they're great in person. They're they're great with their sisters, their great with their grand parents. But they're not great on the phone. I know a lot of people don't enjoy talking on the phone on bat can even sometimes come across as rude. But I know these people. I know they don't enjoy it. So I tried toe try to kind of roll with that. Dan, what do you think about the issue of like, Do you think this is something she should address or just let go? Or do you worry that it's happening with other people that it shouldn't happen with Like,
Speaker 1: I think it's a tough question? And for the most part, my first thought was very in line with yours that people present differently in so many different places and you said, you know, don't take it personally, you might. He might be very different in different circumstances. The unfortunate thought that jump to my mind is it might be very personal and in some ways you might get is worse because your mom, I'm remembering the phenomenon of working with my parents and being surprised at some of the things that would come out of my mouth with my mother that I would never have said with the boss or even a colleague. But somehow the the incredible closeness of that relationship allows for some things that just wouldn't happen in other context. So even your role as a as a really important figure as a parent as a mother might be part of what's going on in terms of the sides of himself that he let's come out, whether he realizes it or not. And I know that's very in line with what you were saying was in terms of the question about whether you say something or not, I know that people have very different thoughts about this. Some parents say, Are you kidding? That is always my child and e comfortable saying whatever occurs to me and particularly if it's in their benefit or it's to help them out and no one else will tell them these things, and that's one of the special privileges of this relationship, will. And without going that far, I want to acknowledge that special relationship. Usually you have no standing to bring this up with someone. The etiquette ground that you're standing on is no. You don't have the standing thio,
Speaker 1: bring up how bad a conversationalist someone is or how bad a conversationalist they are with you that it's just not something that you can that you can do or say easily
Speaker 1: because your mom, you might be able to get away with it. You might be able to context it in that relationship. How important it is to you acknowledging that this isn't the sort of thing you'd usually say, acknowledging that there is a lot that you don't know, for example, how he might conduct himself with other people, allowing for a lot of the things that we've said in this conversation already with the right care, you might be able to get away with it. So in terms of how I would bring it up, I would bring it up with that level of care, and I would really I wouldn't approach it is something that I would just try to do lightly, even though sometimes we say that to that, that that if there's a way you can kind of direct without really
Speaker 1: making someone feel bad, awkward or uncomfortable that you shouldn't do it, e think that's almost unavoidable. If you're gonna bring up something like this, it's tough. And at the same time I wouldn't come down to two heavy. So it Zatz the care that I'm thinking about it. I'm even thinking about having this conversation.
Speaker 2: The last thing that that is kind of coming to mind from some of the other types of situations like this that we've handled in the past is the idea of of self reflection, thio and looking at. How am I talking to my son on the phone and my am I so trying to get stuff out of him that I'm that I'm almost making it worse? Or am I finding ways to meet him where he's at now in life? If it was that kind of a case, I could see him softening the more you treat him like an adult or the more you you know what I mean and I'm not saying that you're not doing that right now, but this this sort of self reflection gives you a minute to think. Am I trying to coax this out of him in the right ways? Or am I? You know, um, I leading with the character, the stick, and I
Speaker 1: think's
Speaker 2: It's like a good way to just be like, am I? Am I using the right positive motivation to get this toe happen? Or, you know, as we said before, Is it just This is the phone call with Mom, and he's just not there. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's and you never know two years from now could be totally different. Um, something changes in his life. And you could you could get that shining, sparkly version of him, you know, on a call to so you never know. It's also still the pandemic, you know, it's like people don't have a ton of bandwidth. Totally. Mom's calling. We hope that this gives a couple different avenues to try and some things to think about when it comes to how toe be a mom to an adult child,
Speaker 2: a good boy,
Speaker 1: not sugar and spice on not all puppy dog tails. Tommy is a real person. Wow.
Speaker 1: Our next question is about playtime on private property.
Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I'm a huge fan of your podcast and have learned so much from you about etiquette and good communication skills. Thank you. Now I'm in a tough situation that I hope you can help with. My house has a large wooded yard, and one family in her neighborhood treats it as their personal playground. Ah, Few times a week, the parents and their two kids walk up our driveway and play hide and seek around our trees, jump off our stumps and just generally hang out in our front yard. Sometimes they only stayed for a few minutes, but other times they've stayed for a long as half. A. Now, er, last week I saw them doing this and walked outside. They just said hi to me like we were meeting each other in the neighborhood park. I was dumbfounded and just went back inside. I'm tourney on what to dio. On the one hand, we've all been cooped up during the pandemic and they never hurt anything on their visits. They don't break tree branches or anything like that. On the other hand, what if one of the kids gets hurt playing around our log pile and the family tries to sue us? You just never know. Should I approach them? Next time they come over and let them know there on private property, ask them to be careful when they play in our yard and promise not to sue us. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thank you, Betsy. Betsy. Dan, what do you think? You've You've got private property and woods and I could see someone like strolling up from that further down the road. You know what do you
Speaker 1: think? I'm horrible? I am such an old man. Get off my lawn. Time s And it really happened much more at the the last place I lived, which was closer to a trailhead. And there was Mawr, sort of traffic in and around and through the woods near that house than there are up where I am currently. But I found myself in this exact situation where you'd see somebody on your property and you go out to check it out just because it zits your property and I think that's a really natural thing to do. And the type of interaction that was described here is the kind of interaction that doesn't give me a lot of confidence about the other people that are on your property for precisely the reason that they didn't engage or potentially acknowledge you as a homeowner or landowner or ask about it. And they might not have recognized that. But if you're coming out of the house and if you're in a place where it's probably pretty clear that houses that properties parceled off and that you're crossing property lines
Speaker 2: yeah, the part for me is like when they're walking up the driveway, that's like even even here in town in Burlington, like I try really hard, never toe walk up someone's driveway, toe, like even put trash in their trash or something like that. You know what transgressing that might be seen as a good idea is still like, No, it's a little too much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as a little kid playing in the neighborhoods, even out in Duxbury. I always knew where the property lines were, and there was some sense for as an elementary school kid that these were property owners that didn't mind if people cross their land. These were once you had to be more careful about. And setting those boundaries as a property owner to me almost become something that steps outside. Just etiquette. You wanna take care with your neighbors, But I absolutely think saying something is entirely up to you and isn't really an etiquette decision for me. How you say it becomes more if the etiquette decision. But I think letting people know that they're on your property and that you'd rather they aren't is a very reasonable thing to do. And that that that second part of it is your choice. Whether you want to say I'd rather you didn't play here,
Speaker 2: right? Or e. I just need to know that you guys were going to be safe because I don't wanna be liable would be another way that you could You could frame it to someone. I'd be really nervous if something happened to one of the kids by the woodpile. Or, you know, e mean, maybe not jumping off a stump, but you know what I mean. You can also say things like, I appreciate that when you do walk here I always see you with your kids. I'd be nervous if I saw them alone. But I I think that when it comes to this conversation walking out, meeting them one day and saying, Hey, you know, nice to see you. I've been I've been wanting to talk with you. I've noticed you and your family coming up our driveway and playing on our front lawn, and I just wasn't sure if you were aware where the property line waas. And I think that that's one way to kind of broach that conversation of, you know, I'm not. I'm not sure you're aware that you're really this close, because clearly they're not. They're not clue ing in that they're in a private space at this point, and I think it's a fair thing to be able to kind of clue them in. I don't you know, we don't know what this property looks like. Maybe the driveway looks more like a road. I've certainly had that experience at times when I'm somewhere where you think you've followed the road. But this sounds more like they're aware that you live right there, and I think it opens you up to then saying, You know, things like I do have some concerns. I was hoping we could chat about ways that we could make this work or shutting it down. If you need to shut it down, that's the other thing. Don't be afraid.
Speaker 1: I think those are all really reasonable things to say. And
Speaker 1: like you just said, if you don't want to get into it, you don't have to. You can also just say I wanted you to be aware that's private property and we'd rather you didn't
Speaker 1: go on it. That's that's all you need to say if that's all you want. And I was thinking about the liability question. That might just be that you don't like looking out your window and not knowing whether you're going to see people playing in your front lawn or not.
Speaker 2: You should say yes, it doesn't always have to be the serious thing. It can be the I just don't want this experience on my home property. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: I think those were totally reasonable things to say, and it's totally reasonable to just not want to look out your window and not know whether you're going to see somebody in your front yard or not
Speaker 2: totally, especially on private property
Speaker 1: for no reason at all. You can make the decision that you would rather people don't play on that lawn, and that's that's not something you have to get into with them if you don't want Thio. I really liked Lizzie. Your approach. Where you almost I heard you almost do a self introduction, and the Onley modification I would make to the script is, if you want to do, you might say Hi, I'm so and so. And But by turning on those little formalities, you start to structure the whole interaction in a way that also gives those other people good opportunities to introduce themselves back toe, exit the conversation you very quickly, just in terms of the way you approach, you set it up is a civil. Um, ask that you're not angry. You're not shouting from your front porch the way I was sort of joking about at the start of the question and just that approach to your tone of voice that you introduce yourself. You identify who you are, you're reasonable in your approach, I think go a long way towards making it very easy for someone to hear what should be a very reasonable request.
Speaker 2: Betsy, thank you for the question. And we certainly hope that our answer has provided you a couple options for addressing this issue.
Speaker 1: On Look, this dispute was settled fairly on DSO. Carry and Eddie are still good friends. Just they always work. It's worthwhile to know many ways to settle disputes.
Speaker 1: Our next question is about gracious gifts. Hello, Lizzie and Dan. Our family enjoys your podcast as my brother entertains his sissy with your podcast each time we have a re union. I thank you for your sage advice last month to my brother Mark, who asked about wedding ring etiquette after his wife's passing. You had great input, and he is now confidently still wearing his ring.
Speaker 1: I have a question regarding Mark, who is generous, bestowing lavish gifts upon me from his wife and his reticent about advising me the cost of shipping. I feel so blessed. He has shared but feel gluttonous, receiving such beautiful, expensive antiques when it is costly for him, toe have it packed and shipped.
Speaker 1: You may suggest I give to a charity and his wife's name, and I have done that. So I'm in a dilemma. Should I send a check and possibly kick a gift horse, wondering if he'll cash it? Or should I just recount the blessings both he and his wife have bestowed? Thank you for any suggestions you may have to offer as well. Thank you for your continued grace and elegance in your delivery. Blessed and thankful. Lisa
Speaker 2: Lisa, we love hearing from you. I love this sibling thing that's going on with siblings. Do awesome etiquette together. Sweet, really, really is. And Lisa, I honestly bet that you can guess our answer to this, that it is, of course, that you just want to accept this. It is clear he is happy to do it. You've made the offer to reimburse them or to help out with this because you're so thankful for it and they've declined. And so that's OK. I love the little things you've done on your own to kind of pay it forward, like giving to a charity and his wife's name or something like that. Just count them on the list of people that when you get inspired to give, there's someone you're going to give. Thio or in their name. I think I think it's a beautiful way toe to pass it back and to pass it forward. But, yeah, revel in how awesome this is.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Continue to treasure, Mark continued toe have the incredible, um, mutually affectionate relationship that you clearly have. I think it's it comes through in the way you approach the question and the way this relationship,
Speaker 1: um, emerges in terms of these questions, the thought that comes to my mind is that it's something we've heard about in a couple of different ways that oftentimes, towards the end of someone's life, it could be a really meaningful and significant process to share some of the stuff that they've accumulated, whether it's knowledge or physical things. And, um, count yourself really lucky to be to be part of that, sharing in that process and and play your role really well. And it sounds like you're doing that.
Speaker 2: Lisa, thank you so much for writing in and sharing a little peek behind the listener window, and we hope our answer helps. Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media On Twitter, we're at Emily. Postings on Instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your Social Media post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting us at patryan dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get in ads, free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air. And to those of you who are already sustaining members, thank you so much for your support.
Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover. And today we hear from Melissa about running with a mask
Speaker 1: on Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I have some feedback for the listener who wrote in about wearing a mask while running. I was actually out on a run when I listen to this episode, so it gave me a great opportunity to think about my own behavior and choices while running. I completely sympathize with wanting to breathe clean air and remain unmasked as much as possible. I also know that it's important during a public health emergency for all of us to do our part to keep one another safe.
Speaker 1: A couple of thoughts that came to mind as I ran. And listen to this question. One
Speaker 1: timing, maybe everything. I find that running early in the morning has meant fewer opportunities to encounter others on sidewalks, trails and other running spaces. It requires a little more planning and some reflective safety gear, but for me it's been a big win. I get to run mask free most days, and I feel confident that I'm not making anyone feel unsafe or uncomfortable when I dio. Maybe this listener could find a time of day when the trails air, less crowded but still safe
Speaker 1: to
Speaker 1: when I do encounter others, I try not to read into their mass behaviors. I heard this runner mentioned that others on the trail made a big show of putting on their masks, and I wonder if that's not necessarily what others were thinking. I find my mask hard to put on with my winter running gear, so I'm sure I look like I'm making a much bigger production of it when I do. And I'm not keeping a generous attitude of mind. May help this runner feel less targeted by others. Behavior, no matter what they choose to do about their own mask. Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts. Melissa
Speaker 2: Melissa Thank you so much for sharing them. They're great thoughts about this, and there is a lot to consider and and think about when it comes to running and exercising and masks and and making people feel comfortable. He's a great point.
Speaker 1: I love this picture of being out for Iran, listening toe. Awesome etiquette. When a question about running running morning comes up, Melissa, thank you so much for this feedback.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You could send your feedback or update awesome etiquette. Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or taxed at 80285 a kind that's 8028585463
Speaker 2: We truly
Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and today we're going to talk about something that is top of mind. And that's the etiquette of being a good spectator or fan.
Speaker 2: I got to say We're saying all of this stuff before the actual big game tonight, and I'm just so curious on a Monday when it hits everyone like if it will be a self self reflective moments might be kicking in like we have no idea if this is gonna be like a nail biter total like Well, actually, just what's gonna happen. Like I'm
Speaker 1: we're
Speaker 2: going to try to keep it broad. But it's true. There is spectator and fan etiquette. And even though e think very few, if any of us are gonna be in fan stands type situations this year, you know, watching sports at home, being a spectator at home with other people and how we organize that. I mean, usually we're throwing big parties for this, and there is, like, usually like a room for those that wanna watch the game quietly without people like disturbing them. There's like the room with all the food in it. There's the you know, it's like there's like, different ways. I feel like that that a Super Bowl party ends up entertaining like Spectators and fans well, so that they can have the experience they need to enjoy the game.
Speaker 1: It's a very etiquette approach, my friend, but
Speaker 2: this year it's a little bit different. But I figured it would still be fun. Like for us to talk about spectator etiquette and being a fan and how we get so into it. It is so lease easy to just lose your I don't want to say like you're polite self, but to lose your polite self like How can you be a fan and still be cool? Because,
Speaker 1: okay, so first of all, by definition, you almost can't, uh, root of the word Fanis fanatic. So it's a little bit about losing control or about sort of surrender behavior that's outside of the norms. So what is the etiquette of how you build a container for that? How you build a space where in the middle of a game that people are watching together, you can yell or cheer or
Speaker 1: just dissolve into a puddle of tears. Misery, exactly. And to me, the obvious first etiquette is to know the crowd that you're with and that the rules are gonna be very, very different. And so often we say, Are you the host? Are you the guest here? I'm gonna put one other hierarchy on top of everything. Which is, um, do you know why people are there watching the game? And if you have fans of one team, you've got one set of rules. And if you've got fans of two teams, you have a different set of rules. And if you have a third group of people that really just don't care which side winds but just generally entertained by the experience, I'm not going to say don't aren't involved or don't care, but are are invested in the competition between the two sides. I think you also have sort of a third social consideration that starts to come into play. Obviously, you know, if you've got one person there who's rooting for a different team, you don't make them feel bad about it, you know, on day and I say all this because it could be the whole purpose of having the Giants fan who's there so that you can pick on the mercilessly. But to do that well, you've got to know that. Basically, you're stepping outside to break any rule. You got to know the rule to break it. So to do that well, have fun with it. You've got to recognize from the start that you wouldn't normally do
Speaker 2: that. No, I think that helps.
Speaker 1: This is my etiquette theory around around fandom and
Speaker 2: that those
Speaker 1: on those manners when you're clearly violating a lot of norms, your
Speaker 2: genes stinks. Eat it. Yeah. No, not polite, but might actually be the report that you have going on with your brother during this game.
Speaker 1: Cheering the trash, talking, the gloating, that all of it,
Speaker 2: e I mean, speaking of gloating, there is such a fine line between doing it well, where people are just laughing and like, like like honestly, I will say my cousin is fairly good at being a good glowed her like he he puts a face on and he sticks his nose in the air and he like oversells the gloat. So that it's a joke, as opposed Teoh. A very serious My team really is the best. And like, don't you say otherwise kind of attitude about it, where it takes it too far, You know what I mean? And it is about finding that line like it could be so obnoxiously arrogant when someone just won't come down off their high horse about a particular player their team has. Maybe the coach maybe, um, the way the game went down or the way the season even went down to get to this game and someone who just knows that it can. It can go anyway, once you're up to this point in this type of ah playoff situation championship situation, like the sort of the gracious team fan is going to be the one who recognizes that anything could go wrong at any moment or that you might lose it. And I think the person that's taking it too far just can't get in that zone. They can't be in that space of this might go wrong. You
Speaker 1: know, I think really simple ways toe show that gracious self. You can root for the other side a little bit or appreciate things about them. You can connect with people that don't root the same way you do about an appreciation for the game or the quality of play. Or there are a lot of ways Thio establish that in terms of just being explicit in your willingness to see things from their perspective as well, sets you up for some really good natured trash talking. Once you have that standing,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, Jimmy Graham's recent catch in the Dome was that he's not playing for the Saints anymore, but like seeing him do that on the field. He used to do it on all the time and just like, own it and love it as a as a fan and a fan of his. I was so thrilled, even though it was points against my team
Speaker 1: like that's a really gracious thought of yours because understanding why someone who wasn't a saint may have done something admirable,
Speaker 2: You know, we could go there. We could do it. We can let ourselves let the other team be good.
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's lots that goes on. Besides the interaction and interaction with the game and what's going on often times this is a social event. Whether
Speaker 1: we're social distancing or not. Maybe there's some food involved. Give you some other tips for watching.
Speaker 2: I mean, who hasn't looked at a beautiful buffet of all of those wonderful bar lake snacks that air that are on our tables during this particular It's not a holiday, but it kind of feels like it could be during the Super Bowl or other events like it. And it's It's so easy to think. Okay, I've had two wings, and I know everybody else got a couple wings, but I really want more wings. Are there enough fruit wings for me to have, you know, or you're looking at at Jimmy and you're going? Jimmy, please stop eating the nachos because there's not gonna be any left when I finally have
Speaker 1: room for them dinner out of this case. So right here?
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then there's the person
Speaker 1: who just really when it comes, But I'm just gonna eat this,
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything, everything. And you're like, I didn't prepare enough less of a problem this year, probably for a lot of people. I've spent many a year watching Super Bowl alone, but this year in particular It's like there's there's just gonna like you were saying at the start of the show. There's just going to be the snacks that you want. My just enough for you
Speaker 1: and my version of this is Bring something to chip in. There is a party where there's a lot of food. It zits so much easier to avoid that side. I when you go up and help yourself if you've contributed something
Speaker 2: and we should also say that all of the judging other people for how they're choosing to eat it a party, it's like it's not a good thing, like, really, we shouldn't be overly paying attention to how someone else's is choosing to feed themselves. But it does. It does happen. You get nervous that you're not going to get one of those wings or that the brownies, they're going to be gone before you get to him. It's kind of funny how how that plays in our minds. So
Speaker 1: I have a third major etiquette tip for watching the game. This is the If I were to do a top three. Don't mess up the food. Don't be a ridiculous fan. Don't be the person that prevents other people from being able to actually watch the
Speaker 2: game.
Speaker 1: It might be really exciting that this is the first time these families have gotten together for a while, or that you've seen an old friend. And the purpose of all getting together is ostensibly to watch the game. So if you want to take that side conversation and go a little deeper,
Speaker 1: find a spot where it's not gonna interfere with everybody else. And be sure that the person you're engaging is ready at that moment to go that direction.
Speaker 2: I think my father, Peter Post, is cheering somewhere in the background. He's sports not so much, but movies don't talk during a movie when he's watching it. It is important to remember that people are trying to focus. They're trying to listen. They're trying to participate in this, which is the main event tonight. So, yeah, that side conversation really good tip to take it somewhere else. Our final point that we almost always make when it comes to talking about spectator and sport etiquette is that you've got to respect the refs. It could be so hard, especially when you when you disagree with the call when the call really change the name of the game, and sometimes they get it wrong. But almost nobody is 100% at their own job, and so remember that this is their job. This is the profession that they've taken on, and they are the professionals in charge of it. And so the more kind of respect that you can demonstrate, it's It's a great thing to be showing for kids so that they're starting to emulate that kind of respect from you. But it's it's also just a good thing for your own sort of intensity. Levels is to remember the, you know, and and they're allowed t do re watches and things replays and things like that. So you know, you never you never know. But it could be really easy to blame it all on the refs. And it is an entire big game being played with many, many elements
Speaker 1: particularly important when hopefully we're all back at these events live and in person at some point in the future,
Speaker 2: whether you're a football fan or not, we hope that our spectator etiquette has has prepped you well for exactly. As Dan said, The Times when we can gather and watch sports together
Speaker 1: again, We hope everyone enjoyed the game
Speaker 1: way
Speaker 2: like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world. And that can come in so many forms. Today we have a salute from Joan.
Speaker 1: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I haven't etiquette salute for my neighbor Courtney. I have never met her, but her simple act of writing a thank you letter and sharing her story has made a positive impact on me. I have many Citrus trees, so I put the extra fruit outside my gate for the neighborhood to enjoy. Shortly after my last harvest, I received this letter. Howdy, neighbor. Thank you so much for the delicious oranges. So kind of you. My grandma, who lived to be 101 but passed away last January, used to give away bags and boxes of oranges from a tree in her yard. Your gesture made me think of her. And a good reminder She is always still with me. Xo. Courtney. Thank you. Awesome etiquette.
Speaker 2: Joan. Oh, my gosh. I love that one. just that the
Speaker 2: the kindness of the note I love that Courtney was willing to put so much of herself and her own what? Like how this is impacting her into it. Sometimes I think we might think, Oh, that would be too much. I shouldn't. I shouldn't tell them that kind of stuff. And I actually think this is beautiful and meaningful, and clearly it impacted Joan really, positively. It just shows like opening up can sometimes really just be absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of some of the sample notes that Emily included in the 22 edition of Etiquette. Totally. She just has these incredible details that they're they're very personal. And they just make that note so significant. You really feel it totally. Joan, thank you so much for sharing this.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 2: and thank you for listening
Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who sent us something. And everyone who supports us on patryan.
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Speaker 2: show is edited by the Amazing Chris Albertine and assistant produced by the wonderful Bridget Dowd. Thanks for Bridget,
Speaker 1: right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.