Episode 339 - No Kind Deed

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social. Could you see that's

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Speaker 2: old

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Speaker 1: fashioned.

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Speaker 2: Watch how busy post and then post to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today's show, we take your questions on farmers market etiquette. What to do when a nice gesture, Make someone uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: celebrating stepchildren and separate baby showers with different guest lists

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Speaker 2: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about inviting co workers to your wedding or not, plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a post script on vaccination etiquette. All that's coming up.

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Speaker 2: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Lizzie Post and I'm Dan Post Sending Dan It's spring is starting to spring, and you've been telling me so many Wild Kingdom tales of life on the mountain. We tell our listeners about life up there right now. It sounds magical it is so awesome, and it is the coming of spring. That's not like my own internal kneading of the coming of spring, but the natural world telling me that it might actually be happening. So the other day I was walking up the Camp Road, the one that we were sliding down a couple weeks ago, and I

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Speaker 2: I noticed these tracks in the fresh snow, and I said to myself, Is that a links? It just looked like a cat. It looked like a cat track, but a bigger cat track. And

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Speaker 2: there aren't a lot of wild cats in the woods. In Vermont, we don't have mountain lions, and I'd seen a lynx years ago, so links jumped in my mind. And then I convinced myself it was It was probably just a Fisher cat, did it? Uh, I was talking to a local hunter who I think of as a resident naturalist, and he was telling me that he'd seen the same tracks and I was right. It's bobcat tracks and it's a pair of them, So there's a slightly larger bobcat and a smaller one, probably a male and a female. This is a mating season, they would be active, they would be out and about together.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if you can hear the excitement in my voice. Finding a track is one thing, but this wasn't just a track like a single pop. It could follow the tracks. It was evidence of wild animals that play jumping and frisking and twirling and running and chasing each other. I just wanted to follow it so bad and I went to step off the road and of course I went into snow, like up to my hip. Where are my snowshoes? I just want to go down into the stream and, like, flush them out to see if I could

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Speaker 2: catch a glimpse. But maybe you don't danger Boy,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I was just like you can't have Disney moments with real animals people. But no, I totally know what you mean. It's like you want to see how close you can get. Catch a glimpse like just find out what's going on. They're kind of like your neighbors. They are well, and

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Speaker 2: and now I've got these visions of the kittens that will be here this spring. Oh, I know, right? You're like Please, please, please let your Denby somewhere near our house,

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Speaker 2: leave stakes out, man. Well, danger kidding. I'm kidding. That's super cool, though. Any other animal sightings? Yes, and it's it's still winter is still hibernation, but there's more and more activity. It is that time of year where the animals that hibernate are just starting to stir a little bit. And

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Speaker 2: the other night we had an owl, usually nocturnal,

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Speaker 2: sit in one of the white pines in our backyard, just in full view through the evening, and it feels like a wild kingdom right now, it feels like things are coming to life. It's really nice. That is, as anyone who's who's in the North knows that's a really big deal.

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Speaker 2: To feel like spring really is going to spring eventually and like like we do come out of this hibernation that were, and I've been feeling you and I have been talking about it, just as

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Speaker 2: as people like you know, where there's a There's a certain week where you know that spring, and like winter is ending, Spring is coming. You're gonna be getting outside more that sort of thing. But you also are like, Oh, just a little bit longer, please. And then that feeling quickly moves over to spring. Oh, my gosh. Get me out of this house. This is so great.

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Speaker 2: We are in that transitional march in like a lion out like a lamb time we're on any given day. It could be a little more extreme, a little more intense or lightening up, getting nicer all the time. Who, speaking of getting nicer, do you think we should try to tackle some medical questions?

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Speaker 2: I think we should. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Awesome Etiquette is here to answer your questions, and you can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

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Speaker 2: Or you can reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post install on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah.

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Speaker 2: Our first question this week is about farmers market manners. Dear Awesome etiquette. Thank you for producing a show that makes me look forward to my daily commute. I am currently working my way through the backlog of episodes, so I apologize if this question has been covered. Recently,

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Speaker 2: my husband and I have been looking for ways to buy local and have joined a CSA community supported agriculture that starts in May.

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Speaker 2: We'll be picking up our share weekly at a farmer's market. We both are hoping that this is the start of a long lasting tradition, as many people who participate in the C s A do so year after year.

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Speaker 2: Is there any particular farmers market etiquette that we should be aware of? I want this to be a positive experience for everyone involved best. Amy. Oh, Amy, you are talking to farmers market and see ECE old hats. We love our CS. A Dan even does his in the winter,

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Speaker 2: and we we go to the same one and we frequent the local farmers markets, especially in the summer.

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Speaker 2: Dan, I was gonna say we share the share for a while, even. Yeah. So what do you think you hear? Like, how big picture are we talking?

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Speaker 2: I'm going really big. I'm thinking any time you're joining a new community, you really want to pay attention to norms and standards. I can hear that kind of thinking here already,

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Speaker 2: but I say go slow, give yourself a little extra time, maybe show up early, maybe budget a little more time than you might need so you can linger and see how everything kind of works. Other tip would be to go ahead and call ahead and ask if there's anything that would be helpful or that you should be aware of Places like this are going to be happy to engage you as someone who is new to their system. They also usually have websites to that, whether you've already made your purchase through it or your commitment through it.

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Speaker 2: Um, but it often has, like, frequently asked questions what to do as a beginner, things like that.

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Speaker 2: Some of the things I've noticed at our own are really and and this has been both pre pandemic and during pandemic have been to really, really respect the lines, the order of operations, that sort of thing like at R. C. S A. It's kind of like a big open hut

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Speaker 2: and like the food is all underneath it. And

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Speaker 2: at times it could feel really chaotic, like you just go wherever you want within it. And at other times it's been more kind of like you. You follow an order of operations and during the pandemic it's been like a more stringent order of operations, but just kind of paying attention to where to start. Where to go,

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Speaker 2: I think, is one of the big ones, and the other one that I do think is really true for the C. S. A. Obviously different at the farmer's market, where you're purchasing things directly, but is that you don't take more than your share. You try not to pick through everything, putting your hands all over the vegetables and were expected that people wash them when they get home. But it's just nice to not do that.

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Speaker 2: Um, it's it's thoughtful. It can make other people feel more comfortable. But really, you want to kind of scope out using your eyes and then pick the piece that you want.

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Speaker 2: And also we have a thing where we get to donate extra. So if I had for instance, don't care for one of the vegetables that comes or something I may be allergic to. I can donate it so that other people who want a little bit more can take more from the extra pile, which is what it's there for. Those are some of the things from our CSR. But, Dan, what about farmers markets? Anything specific come out to you there.

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Speaker 2: These are often you know, you're dealing directly with the person producing everything. Although you do that at the C s, A. Two.

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Speaker 2: Resist the urge to haggle too much. I don't think they're even supposed to haggle. Lot of farmers market are you? You know, there aren't official rules. And, um, just because it's not a grocery store where there's necessarily a barcode on something and a scanner still treat those prices like there

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Speaker 2: prices 6 10.

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Speaker 2: Um, the other thing that you've got me thinking about was the whole idea of not taking more than your share. I know some places C s A s come pre boxed. It's a certain amount of certain quantity. You get it for us. There would be a portion that might be like that. There would be a portion where you could fill it out, or fill a peck basket with some combination of roots or tubers. Or

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Speaker 2: there might be, uh, even some pick your own cut flowers or herbs, peppers or tomatoes or I love the tomatoes. And I think that was a really good reminder, because to pay attention to the limits and stick to them, it might seem like there is an infinite abundance and pick your own situation. But

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Speaker 2: if you're not supposed to eat while you pick, don't eat while you pick. If you're supposed to take just a pint, don't take a court. All of these things sound obvious, but sometimes when you're out in the field, it can get kind of exciting. Remind yourself that there are other people who have shares as well, and you can often always buy more from the ECE. I mean, this is really common with tomatoes, especially,

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Speaker 2: um, but I find I can always call and ask if I'm able to purchase more for the week. If that's if that's something they feel they have enough abundance to let people do, Um and that's that's actually how I end up doing all the canning at the end of at the end of August.

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Speaker 2: Amy, we hope that our experience is of value and that some of this rings true for the C S A. And the farmers markets that you visit and can help you be a better patron of these places.

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Speaker 1: It all takes skill.

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Speaker 1: We owe our daily bread to the farmer. Hats off to these who feed the world.

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Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Uncomfortable with etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I'm a new listener to your podcast was recommended by a friend and m binging all the episodes and currently in the two hundreds

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your helpful and insightful show that has brought so much joy and comfort to so many.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I'm a stay at home mom with two Children. Elementary age. While I have plenty to do daily, my kids are at an age when I can spend time on hobbies. I enjoy cooking from scratch, gardening, canning and embroidery. When other moms see what I do around the house, I usually get two responses.

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Speaker 2: They mentioned how inferior they feel or they diminish and demean my interests as not worth their time.

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Speaker 2: I find both responses hurtful.

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Speaker 2: I am not existing to be in competition with anyone. I'm just existing. Furthermore, I use the skills I have worked hard to master to contribute to local communities, for example, stalking a church pantry with canned goods or giving embroidery away as Christmas gifts.

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Speaker 2: So I know I don't do anything out of look at meanness.

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Speaker 2: I truly have a passion for these hobbies and try to put them to good use. But I still get some negative responses from other moms.

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Speaker 2: Similarly, I wrote a thank you card to a couple of ladies at the church who were both about 15 years older than me and have teenagers Now.

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Speaker 2: They watched my son's during a class my husband and I took at the church.

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Speaker 2: I was grateful to get the opportunity to attend the class and thought of what would be the post thing to do. So I wrote a thank you note.

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Speaker 2: The ladies downplayed the thank you note and said they wouldn't have had time while their kids were younger to write Thank you notes. They laughed it off, and I felt a little hurt.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be nice. I have social anxiety, and these are the ways I'm able to push through it and connect with people.

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Speaker 2: But what do I do when my attempts at connection fail? In this way,

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Speaker 2: I usually stand there looking confused and don't know what to say.

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Speaker 2: I know the impolite thing to do would be to snap back and imply they don't know anything about etiquette. So I don't do that. And I truly do not desire for any competition or addressing someone else's behavior.

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Speaker 2: Can I be provided with some of Lizzie's famous sample scripts to handle these situations of motherly competition and the unfortunate realization that I make some people uncomfortable, which is the exact opposite of my intention?

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much. Kylie. Kylie, thank you so much for this question. It is a real opportunity to think about

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Speaker 2: what we do when the world doesn't meet us where we're coming from, and the first thought I had was just I I wanted to offer you something. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: sort of buck you up and say, Stay strong. It's

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Speaker 2: It is not uncommon for people to not say exactly what they mean. Um, I don't have the time might equal something like, I admire you very much for how you managed to get it all done. I wish I could be like you, you know,

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Speaker 2: exactly it's and and And that second thought isn't always a construct that someone has in their mind or is comfortable saying So. They go with the self depreciating or the minimizing thought,

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Speaker 2: and it's not ideal. It's not a good thing. And the the only thing I can say to you is that that's an issue for them. And I hope that that awareness or that, uh, the possibility that it just might not be within their capacity to really express that other thought doesn't mean that it's not there.

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Speaker 2: The other sort of obvious place where the etiquette jumped out at me here was around the thank you note that wasn't well received. And I was thinking a lot about this because just very recently in the last week, I've spent a lot of time advising people to write, Thank you know it's not just for the big and eventful moments, but also for little things. If they just want to

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Speaker 2: reinforce a relationship or,

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Speaker 2: um, flex that muscle of gratitude and

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Speaker 2: it reminds me how important receiving thanks is as part of that exchange and those people who you gave that note to clearly didn't know how to do it. Dan was just talking about how when people don't really receive thanks Well, and it reminds me of ruts that we can get into that when we are someone who is stressed out about how much time we have in a day to get something done. And I'm not saying that you aren't someone who doesn't have stresses. As you said, you clearly do. There's a lot to handle in the day, but that you have had some time for some of these hobbies and interests. But it can be so easy for the person who's in the rut

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Speaker 2: to just automatically default to that. I don't have time or I'm so busy or I could never

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Speaker 2: and I think the more that that can be their issue and not yours. And I know that you're not wishing for them to compare. But it is a tendency so many people have. I think every most people have it. I don't want to say everyone, but I think most people do and that it's something that until you're even aware that you're doing it, you can't combat it in yourself.

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Speaker 2: And so it's gonna be really hard to try to say or do anything that's really going to

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Speaker 2: change or possibly impact the mindset of people who are really in that rut and delivering you these kinds of phrases. But I do think the more that you can think about how you're really happy with how you do things and you feel good about it, the more that you can feel good about continuing

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Speaker 2: to utilize the etiquette and the and the good things that you're doing and to feel confident in it. And it just as Dan was saying it just thanks aren't always received. Well, you know, people aren't always able to clearly express when they're impressed.

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Speaker 2: Um, you know, admiration exactly. And so I think you're up against a lot of of that in these particular circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Overall, I think trying to recognize that the the actions that you are taking and the things that you're doing, they are good, they feel good to you, they feel right to you, and I want to say, Let it. Stop there. Let the other people's reaction doesn't matter. But I know that technically, that's not even good etiquette. Um,

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Speaker 2: but to feel confident in the good etiquette that you are putting out there, even if it isn't always landing perfectly with other people,

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Speaker 2: I think that's the short responding perfectly sorry I should say that. Sorry, Dan. I didn't mean to cut you off. No, I think that's the short and appropriately short answer. Their negative reactions aren't something you can really manage and your response to it

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Speaker 2: is really the only thing you have total control over. I wanted to take a shot at a sample script because could I do it? Do it in the spirit of short and clear. It's okay. I just love doing it.

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Speaker 2: I really like that. I really, really, really good. Yeah, these are things, and all of a sudden I think that might even help separate or address some of that comparison that you're talking about that can happen without us even intending it to that. You're You're essentially saying it makes me feel good and

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Speaker 2: in the background you're addressing the idea that this really isn't about

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Speaker 2: me versus anybody else. This is just something I do because I like it. Yeah, exactly. I like it. I like it. Kylie, I hope that our answer helps, and we hope that you keep being you in your community.

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Speaker 1: How do you go about

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Speaker 2: what do you do?

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Speaker 2: Every

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Speaker 1: time I try, I only make things worse. Is there some particular method

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Speaker 2: of being thoughtful

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Speaker 1: that works every time?

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Speaker 2: Our third question this week is a doozy. It's titled How Far does Step go?

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Speaker 2: Hi, Lizzie and Dan. I love your podcast. I married into a very blended family. My husband's parents are divorced, and he has step siblings on both sides. While everyone is cordial, Sometimes it's hard to determine where to draw the line of who to include and who not to include. When we celebrate intimate family milestones,

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Speaker 2: my mother in law's stepdaughter is expecting her second baby.

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Speaker 2: Her sister's the mom to be his mother is hosting a baby shower for her and wants to include both sides of the mother to be his family. The relationship between the mother to be his mother and father and by relation, my mother in law is not great to say the least and has even been tumultuous at times.

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Speaker 2: The host asked, via her daughter's my mother in law for mailing addresses of her own sister in laws to be invited to the shower. We all think this is a bit of a stretch considering the mother to be has not seen my mother in law's side of the family in several years.

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Speaker 2: They are long distance, and there is not a strong relationship between the mother to be and the Step aunts, either.

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Speaker 2: As I tried to put on my awesome etiquette hat, we determined that my mother in law doesn't have control or say over who the host invites.

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Speaker 2: There is enough understanding from my mother in law's sister in laws that they will not feel obligated to come to the shower and will simply send a gift. Instead,

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Speaker 2: we figured my mother in law would be doing more harm than good to block an invite from going to her family,

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Speaker 2: considering my mother in law has two other stepdaughters who may experience similar life celebrations, how should my mother in law handle the guest list in the future when she is not the hostess? Sincerely, Lizzie with a Why

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Speaker 2: Lizzie with a y good on you for having written this all out. It took me a couple of times reading it to get to get through all the connections. But I think what we have here, I know

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Speaker 2: is that a husband's step Sisters mother

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Speaker 2: is throwing a shower

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Speaker 2: and is asking for

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Speaker 2: the listeners husbands, mothers, step sisters addresses to invite them to the shower. It does feel like a stretch unless these people step on. So yeah, well, because it's the mother's step sisters. It would be the step sisters. Step on. Um, so it's it's it's a straight you are. I just want to say I think you're right, that unless these people are very close already,

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Speaker 2: it's a big stretch. But I think you are even more so right that not being the host of the party, you do not get to dictate the invitations. And if if the hostesses asking for those addresses, then

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Speaker 2: you know, be kind and provide them and invite these folks, they can always decline the invitation. It's not an obligation to send a gift, so it doesn't have to be,

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Speaker 2: um, sort of in that category. but it's definitely a very far extended invite.

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Speaker 2: Dan, How did I do? I think you did great. Okay, I think that is the etiquette obvious? Not obviously, but the host gets to make these calls, and it is tricky territory to try to insert yourself into that process. And I certainly like you said, would never refuse giving someone an address unless I really knew that person didn't want it

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Speaker 2: given out.

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Speaker 2: The only other etiquette thought I could add as a contribution it might help thinking about, um, how to draw these lines in the future around more intimate family gatherings in larger families and families that are blended or connected in different ways. One of the themes of this show is that we can oftentimes use etiquette

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Speaker 2: as, um, a way to build touchpoints in relationships. And we talk about the annual card or the holiday card, being an opportunity to touch base with people that you don't see for the rest of the year or don't communicate with us regularly. Sometimes events like these family gatherings like these

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Speaker 2: can serve as the checkpoints that bring people together, and

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Speaker 2: that is the other thought that I would add just to to balance in, along with the idea that yes, showers are usually smaller, more intimate affairs for closer family and friends. A shower isn't exactly the kind of event

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Speaker 2: that I would use a chance to reconnect with long lost relatives. That's not what I'm saying. Good point Housewarming might be a little bit, you know, more casual. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but but there are sometimes opportunities to leverage those types of events. You might invite someone you don't see regularly to come visit for us,

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Speaker 2: certain holiday or something like that. That might be another etiquette thought to build into the way you think about who you include in these smaller events. When you can't include everyone, I love it. When we go for the inclusive reach out, try to take it as an opportunity. Just a hint. Just a hint. Polyana, saccharine, sweet and all the good ways.

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Speaker 2: And I also want to take half a second to recognize that Lizzie mentioned Lizzie with a Y mentioned in this question

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Speaker 2: that it's not a blended family where people have always gotten along. I could just picture so many families where the case is that the bygones of the relationship that split are bygones, and everyone is really supportive and and where you might have step aunts, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and the question of how far step goes. If it's your step brothers,

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Speaker 2: mothers, sisters, more even step Sisters of the Mother, it's it's a little far fetched that is a step far out of the realm of blended family. But I think that it is worth noting that when

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Speaker 2: Lizzie with A Y and her husband throw parties and family gatherings and are the hosts,

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Speaker 2: that it is perfectly okay for them to have smaller parties. I think some people feel like when one family member starts extending it all out that all of a sudden every family gathering has to be that way. And I think that's it's as Dan said, I don't want to lose the opportunity to be inclusive where it would be really great.

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Speaker 2: But I also don't want people to feel like there's that pressure to then

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Speaker 2: always include really far kind of distant relatives that they don't talk to that often just because that's other holiday events or other family events. They have been there, I think, when It's your hosting. It's your guest list.

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Speaker 2: Lizzie with an i e. I really appreciate that perspective, and I think that Lizzie with a y, will

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Speaker 1: also in any family, we are bound to encounter a certain amount of rivalry among the brothers and sisters.

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Speaker 1: Drive a report attention

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Speaker 1: for esteem,

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Speaker 2: and it's

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Speaker 1: not too strong to say for love.

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Speaker 1: Mhm

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Speaker 1: Mm.

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Speaker 1: Our

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Speaker 2: next question is titled B List, baby shower. Hi, Lizzie and Dan, Thank you for all of your work on this truly awesome podcast. I love your approach to modern etiquette, and my commute to work is fun Because of both of you. I am hoping you can help me out with a covid baby question.

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Speaker 2: A friend of mine is expecting her first baby, and I am so excited for her.

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Speaker 2: She's going to be an amazing mom. I'm invited to her virtual baby shower that is taking place this weekend. However, my friend already had a baby shower a few weeks ago, which she mentioned to me a while back. This wasn't a secret

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Speaker 2: for what she has called her closest friends and family. This event was outside in person, and the normal food drink games were provided to the guests. She posted pictures of the event on Instagram and Facebook.

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Speaker 2: This upcoming virtual shower is basically for the other 30 ish people in her life that weren't invited to the closest friends and family event.

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Speaker 2: As this virtual shower gets closer, I find myself a little put off. This sort of feels like a list and B list to me.

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Speaker 2: I'm of course, going to attend because I RSVP'd. But what is the proper etiquette here?

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Speaker 2: Thank you all The best Anonymous Anonymous. Thank you for the question. This is, uh, really nice because it's got some very clear etiquette here, and I want to start off with the last question you asked or point that you made. And I thought it was a really good one to reinforce. Once you've r S v p, you're in. So,

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Speaker 2: um, good on you for accepting that responsibility that that you have taken.

00:28:25

Speaker 2: It's also true that you wouldn't have to reply affirmatively to that invitation. I also want to give you the complete etiquette freedom you get to decide whether you want to go or not in the future. Big picture.

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Speaker 2: I understand the concern about an A List B list field to a shower being created, particularly by one event being in person for us, for a smaller, tighter group and another larger group being included. Virtually.

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Speaker 2: I want to allow for a little bit of flexibility and latitude around pandemic planning, and we've been doing that for 89 10 months, and that's where the most generous part of my brain can go. I can say if the conditions were otherwise, they wouldn't be doing it this way. The limitations that there

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Speaker 2: struggling with might really have to do with social distancing requirements just what's feasible at the moment. And because of that,

00:29:23

Speaker 2: the idea of having to showers itself isn't awkward or problematic. From a medical perspective, that feeling of the A List B list is definitely something that, um,

00:29:35

Speaker 2: is worth paying attention to. As you think about organizing those different showers. What are your thoughts on that Lizzie? Well, no, I was It was funny when you were talking. I was even thinking, We really do have multiple showers and

00:29:47

Speaker 2: this this has happened. We've often thought about things like, for instance, sometimes a work group will get together and throw you a work baby shower.

00:29:56

Speaker 2: And sometimes there is a friend shower or a family shower that are separate If they're really large groups, we we tend to suggest that Emily Post, that you really not have more than sort of like 22 maximum 30 people because the point of a shower the entire purpose of this party

00:30:14

Speaker 2: is to shower the honorees with gifts and therefore gifts are supposed to be opened and it could take a long time to get gifts. And when you add a virtual shower to that, you've got 30 gifts. Online is even longer, Um, and so it is done. It is absolutely done, but it's doing it with tact

00:30:36

Speaker 2: That helps to prevent the feeling that anonymous here is experiencing. And

00:30:41

Speaker 2: that's really on the host to do that and do that well,

00:30:45

Speaker 2: I think one of the issues I'm feeling here or where this this feeling of being put off, I think could be coming from, is that it's a been labeled to anonymous, that this is the closest friends and family event,

00:31:01

Speaker 2: and that the other one is sort of like the more extended friends and family event

00:31:06

Speaker 2: or friends event, and the other part of it is that one was in person and one is virtual. And

00:31:13

Speaker 2: to me, Dan, it sounds like the combination of having labelled the in person one closer friends and family and having labelled the other one virtual and extra people in my life is where you feel put off. And I don't blame you. Frankly, maybe the size. Yeah, the end the size, the 30 people. Yeah,

00:31:33

Speaker 2: no, I think you're right. I'll say right now I'm in the middle of hosting a virtual baby shower for someone who's having to baby showers, one that's being hosted in person in Utah with some of the close friends. And they're doing socially distant. And there's only so many people on the list. And there are

00:31:48

Speaker 2: some virtual people attending that event because there it's. We call that one. The friends shower,

00:31:54

Speaker 2: and it was all of Jamie's friends, and she was very sweet. She asked me if I wanted to be included in that one, and I said, because I was hosting the family shower, I would

00:32:02

Speaker 2: she was not to wait, wait, wait, wait. So the family showers the virtual, so the family. Yeah, in this case, because the family most of most of Jim and Jamie's family is all on the East Coast. And so it was just not going to be possible to do a family shower right now during the pandemic. But the baby is coming, and there were nobody we didn't want to wait till after the baby game.

00:32:21

Speaker 2: And so it was. It was really great that this virtual shower was an option that so many people have have kind of gotten behind the idea and understand how to do it and that she could have the family who her family is really supportive. And this is like a really exciting time is Jamie's first baby, and so it was really wonderful. Everyone's been

00:32:40

Speaker 2: participating really well so far in the lead up and the prep for the shower. I've gotten out my resume links and passwords and everything, clearly the folks, um, and the registry and all that. So it's it's really working, but it is not thought of as a less intimate shower because the people who are their intimate and I think when you get the combination of it's the less intimate party and the less intimate

00:33:03

Speaker 2: version of it like, um,

00:33:06

Speaker 2: method of connecting. I think that's where you start to feel as anonymous, says a little put off. So hosts. This is really actually an answer for you really think about the guest list that you're doing the number of people invited, the method that the party is going to take place within.

00:33:24

Speaker 2: And how can you make all guests feel really honored to be a part of this event?

00:33:29

Speaker 2: Anonymous. Thank you so much for this question. We really hope that our answer helps clarify some questions that you had in your mind and also that you're able to really celebrate this baby when the shower does happen.

00:33:41

Speaker 1: Thank

00:33:42

Speaker 2: you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute

00:34:01

Speaker 2: and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:34:12

Speaker 2: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ADS free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air. And to those of you who are already sustaining members, thank you so much for your support.

00:34:34

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. And today we are hearing a voice mail from Tracy on people assuming your gender via email.

00:34:45

Speaker 1: Hi, Libyan Dan. This is Tracy, who has a very distinct pleasure of hosting Libby recently to talk about pandemic it or pandemic etiquette. And if anyone wants to listen to either of our discussions, they can find them on Instagram at Poppy Lady, which is popp IE lady on the I G T V tab, and I'm calling with some feedback. That first was about a recent question of a gal who's name often Olympic emails directed to Mr. But the

00:35:14

Speaker 1: the sender has a female gender identity,

00:35:17

Speaker 1: and one idea I had would be to include a photo in her email signature. Maybe if she has a professional photo she could include or a lot of programs like Outlook let you upload a photo, and that might be an option to prevent the error. Uh, the second was a question or a host had been contacted and a guest attended

00:35:36

Speaker 1: that was planning on attending their upcoming gathering with Covid positive 10 days ago and had returned to work but wanted the host

00:35:43

Speaker 1: to notify all the other guests anonymously. And I was thinking that really everyone who's gathering those contacts that are not in this household at this point is a risk to be an asymptomatic spreader or get exposed to the virus of the gathering.

00:35:57

Speaker 1: And that's just a fact. So if the guest was released by his doctor to go back to work,

00:36:02

Speaker 1: then it really wouldn't be riskier than any other person attending coming. And it feels that the awkward to announce all the other guests

00:36:10

Speaker 1: and if somebody was really trying to be risk avoidance and they really wouldn't want to go to a gathering at all. So it just felt like a little bit of a I would feel strange being a guest, getting a call like there's a guest coming, but they passed 10 days, but they're coming and I won't tell you who. And it just seems like kind of a moot points and

00:36:30

Speaker 1: gatherings have inherent risks. So anyways, thank you guys so much for the show. I love you and I hope you have a great week.

00:36:39

Speaker 2: Tracy. Thank you for the feedback and, as always, thank you for leaving a voicemail. We love to hear your voices

00:36:45

Speaker 2: as far as the particular piece of advice. I've definitely seen a lot of pictures in email contact lines, and that's definitely one way to go. It doesn't necessarily guarantee that someone's going to correctly identify your gender. That's not always obvious from a picture.

00:37:01

Speaker 2: What makes it very clear and explicit is the inclusion of pronouns in that email,

00:37:07

Speaker 2: contact, information or signature, and this is something that we're seeing

00:37:12

Speaker 2: all over the place now. So a simple inclusion of

00:37:16

Speaker 2: he him, she heard they them as part of your contact information is a great way to remove all ambiguity from the question.

00:37:25

Speaker 2: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:37:42

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:37:45

Speaker 2: it's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette. And today,

00:37:51

Speaker 2: Boy, I can't I kind of can't believe we're here already. But we're going to talk about vaccination etiquette. It's funny. I both feel like this is a big, big celebration and also at the same time, it doesn't feel fanfare ish. I don't know. Maybe because it's like

00:38:10

Speaker 2: Has it hasn't hit me yet? My parents have been vaccinated fully vaccinated, and you you have a friend who's been vaccinated, and all of a sudden it kind of like there were things to think about in this friendship that you couldn't have thought about before,

00:38:24

Speaker 2: or at least in the past year. Absolutely. And that one friend has now been joined by several more. Oh, you've got a bigger group that's been vaccinated now, absolutely. And

00:38:35

Speaker 2: an extended family network. More and more, um, family members are aged cousins in other states where they're on different schedules are starting to

00:38:46

Speaker 2: be through the line. So she believes vaccinated. She's got the first shot, will have the second one by April. And they're thinking about visiting people or

00:38:58

Speaker 2: all kinds of things. And that very first friend healthcare provider who got vaccinated really early on when he called and shared

00:39:07

Speaker 2: it was the beginning of a host guest dancer. Hi, I'm letting you know about my new status, and I know that you all are really careful about this. But I also wanted you to know that I'm starting to open up and thinking of myself as safe to visit people.

00:39:22

Speaker 2: And there was so much good care and good etiquette in the exchange. It was the first place. It came to my mind as it happened repeatedly. Now I found myself saying, When people tell me that they've got their vaccines, I say congratulations. Yeah, I was wondering is, Is that

00:39:40

Speaker 2: appropriate etiquette? Is is it really something that's, uh, that I want to congratulate someone for or

00:39:47

Speaker 2: what I want to share with them is that I'm excited for them and I'm happy for them. And that seems to be the word that expresses it. Yeah, and and maybe if congratulations isn't resonating with you, just simply saying, I'm really happy for you to the person because I do think it is good news and it's funny. My mom, she apologized the other night because I'm fairly isolated up here and

00:40:10

Speaker 2: as Dan knows and also is, But my mom was on the phone with her, she said, I'm so sorry. I really have to go. Our friends are coming over because they're past their two weeks after their last shot. And so we're celebrating that we can get together safely. And it was just that feeling of Of like, she she felt

00:40:29

Speaker 2: guilty that she knew she was enjoying something that I couldn't right now, And it was. It was it was, and I wanted to tell her, Don't don't feel bad about that, Mom. It's like great that you guys get to do that. Meanwhile, I'm like

00:40:41

Speaker 2: pushing down my own anxiety of the past year of like fearing my parents getting together with people. It's like No Lizzie, They're vaccinated like calm down.

00:40:51

Speaker 2: But it's It's been interesting experiencing just the talking about it, even with the people I'm the closest to, you know,

00:41:00

Speaker 2: it's so important and it sounds like really good etiquette. I love thinking about that other side of that equation, and from the perspective of a doctor friend who's calling me up and saying, Hey, I just wanted to let you know and that

00:41:16

Speaker 2: that soft approach from from my side it raised a whole series of questions, and you now have me thinking about,

00:41:21

Speaker 2: frankly, what a good job he did in terms of the way he approached me and shared that information

00:41:28

Speaker 2: without

00:41:30

Speaker 2: burdening me with a lot of expectations that I respond in a certain way. You know, that's what's striking me about it is that it's the idea that he let you know without immediately asking. Can I come over or declaring I'm safe now? So you should be okay with it. So it's It's this idea that he was still giving you space to be in the space that you're at with it, given whatever circumstances you and your family, your household are working with and I can hear that same awareness. And it's what made me think of it in the way your mother was talking to you. Yeah, I'm sorry. His mom I'm sorry we're getting together with people like you shouldn't feel sorry.

00:42:12

Speaker 2: And what I hear her saying is I care about you and I really don't wanna rub your nose in this.

00:42:22

Speaker 2: No, that's exactly the point. Like many of the conversations we've talked about on this show today it is about the tact of it. And it's really about thinking

00:42:31

Speaker 2: no matter where you're at with it, whether you're hesitant or whether you're really excited for the person recognizing that this conversation might need a little bit extra consideration, respect and honesty around it, that it's going to

00:42:47

Speaker 2: potentially feel like something that that would seem really easy but could actually bring up a number of different questions right off the bat and and sort of

00:42:55

Speaker 2: as we all are, going through this and having more and more people around us have this experience, it'll it'll be interesting to see where people settle or if it will just become more familiar that people are calling you to say this and it feels less

00:43:09

Speaker 2: impactful on you. Like all of a sudden, like, you know, like it's just so everybody's going through it, you know? I'll be curious to see what happens. Dan. I could ramble for forever. Stop me, Stop me!

00:43:19

Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate your rambling because you've got me thinking about another thought, which is that we're going to reach a place in this process. I hope where and I'm imagining myself is probably part of this group where you might be one of the last ones. Just because your last in line, for whatever reason,

00:43:39

Speaker 2: and I could imagine a

00:43:40

Speaker 2: inverted version of this situation where I have to let people know, I still haven't been able to get my vaccine yet. And I can't come or I would love to, but for these reasons, it's not possible quite yet. Please invite me again in two weeks. Yeah, exactly. Or whatever it is, Yeah.

00:43:59

Speaker 2: Put me in the camp of really hoping that we are at the beginning of the end of this experience of social distancing at least this severe form of it all. The boy that flu could never come back again and I'd be happy But I think as we navigate this end together, the

00:44:18

Speaker 2: pandemic etiquette is not over quite yet. And this is a particular time where that focus on consideration, respect and honesty is going to be important once more, because we're going to be in situations that feel less familiar where even within the pandemic we don't have as much experience with this particular set of circumstances yet

00:44:38

Speaker 2: And as we do, move out of social distancing,

00:44:41

Speaker 2: be excited for embracing life when we can get together and gather once again here here,

00:44:48

Speaker 1: a dynamic community health program. Physicians, voluntary agencies and the health department working together can do much to ensure your well being and that of your Children.

00:45:02

Speaker 1: It can provide the kind of environment which is essential to good health and wholesome living. But a modern, full time health department cannot exist without active citizen support.

00:45:14

Speaker 1: It's up to you.

00:45:24

Speaker 2: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world, and that can come in so many forms. Today we have a salute from Sasha.

00:45:36

Speaker 2: I have a salute for a stranger. Covid has taken so many activities from my kids, so we indulged them where we can. My five year old loves going to the car wash, so my car has been extremely clean this winter. We decided to go today and went to one where you can pay right at the car wash entrance.

00:45:57

Speaker 2: It was a sunny day, so there was a line. We got to the front and it wouldn't take my card. I kept trying, tried another card and nothing all while getting more flustered as my son was trying to help and the line behind us was growing longer.

00:46:12

Speaker 2: The person right behind me got out of his car, and I expected some aggression about what was taking so long. But he just pulled out his card to try

00:46:21

Speaker 2: also nothing.

00:46:23

Speaker 2: I couldn't leave my son alone, so he went into the store,

00:46:27

Speaker 2: bought the exact wash we wanted and brought me back a code to use. He was gracious and kind when he could have been the opposite, and it really meant a lot to both. Experienced that patience and kindness and to be able to talk to my son about how kind he was. And how. That's exactly how we should treat others.

00:46:46

Speaker 2: Thanks. I love the show and always appreciate your thoughtful comments. Sasha. Sasha, thank you so much for that salute. I sympathize with the situation that you find yourself in and what a wonderful moment. And what a wonderful present opportunity. So great salute. Thanks, Sasha.

00:47:05

Speaker 2: Okay.

00:47:06

Speaker 2: Mhm.

00:47:07

Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:47:08

Speaker 2: And thank you for listening. And thank you to everyone who sent us something. And everyone who supports us on Patreon. Please connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and coworkers and hopefully on social Media to you can send us questions, feedback and salutes by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post com.

00:47:27

Speaker 2: You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 On Twitter, we are at Emily Post Inst on instagram near at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook Were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute. Please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

00:47:48

Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast at

00:47:53

Speaker 2: And please consider leaving us a review. And I will add this week that we recently discovered our podcast is on audible and it has more reviews on Audible. If you really want to help the show out, please visit Audible and great. The Awesome Etiquette Podcast. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine an assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks. Kris and Brigitte

00:48:14

Speaker 1: Mm.