Episode 34 - The Accidental Date
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. You think you’re just going out for a drink. He clearly doesn’t. What is the best way to handle this without being rude?
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Speaker 1: an attitude of gratitude
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Speaker 2: is cultivates an attitude of gratitude.
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Speaker 1: Get you man just got super like squinty eyed and big grin laughing at that. I had not
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Speaker 2: heard that, that is cheese that
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Speaker 1: I can appreciate, trainer
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Speaker 2: did not register
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Speaker 1: just getting an attitude of gratitude.
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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy, that's old fashioned
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Speaker 2: host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness, Let's
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Speaker 1: get ready to rumble. I mean be polite,
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Speaker 2: it just doesn't have the same ring.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. I guess we need to work
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Speaker 2: on that. You think I'll talk Welcome to another episode of awesome etiquette. We are coming to you from the Rockin studios of Vermont Public radio and are proud to be the most polite part of the infinite guest network from american public media.
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Speaker 1: I'm lizzie Post
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Speaker 2: and I'm dan post Senning from the Emily Post Institute,
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Speaker 1: so
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Speaker 1: I threw a party, my friend Caitlin and I co hosted what doesn't really have a title, but it was an all girls engagement party. It wasn't like a bachelorette where we're celebrating the end of her being single. It was really that we were celebrating my friend Aaron getting engaged and we were celebrating it as just her girlfriends. It was not, sorry Benny is sneezing
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Speaker 2: all across
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Speaker 1: the room, it's like there's a truffle pig in here. All right, back to the story. Um, so yeah, it was, it was an all girls party, it was just for her girlfriends and you know, my friends, I don't know what you and pooch throw for parties at her house but I don't often entertain with china
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Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's rare that I can afford to host a party that is not potluck and Caitlin. And I really wanted to make this special. So we decided to have a full sit down. We were serving dinner, we didn't let anyone do buffet style um hosted it at my parents house, which as you know, my mother has like
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Speaker 1: umpteen sets of gorgeous china and you know, real crystal and both of my grandparents were excellent entertainers and
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Speaker 2: for it it's
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Speaker 1: really it's really fabulous. So they're away in florida. I asked them if I could use the house for this. They were thrilled
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Speaker 1: I think. Um but I was really proud. It was as a hostess and co hostess. It was such a great feeling to lay out. I did a black tablecloth, I sprinkled um star and moon confetti down it and then had a trickle off the right side of each of the heads of the table.
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Speaker 1: So it kind of looked like the milky way. It was like really beautiful.
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Speaker 1: And then I had gold tablecloth, gold napkins against the silver and the the china pattern was actually one of poppies. It
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Speaker 2: was going to be my next question, The armory maybe. No,
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Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was called but it's it was grumpy lows and it's um it's blue
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Speaker 1: and kind of gold with hints of orange and red and black. So it actually looked stunning
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Speaker 1: with the gold napkin and I mean it really, it all came together and then we used, it's so funny how we call all the, the china and the, the service whereby who it came from. So we used on pauline's
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Speaker 1: and I don't even know who aunt pauline
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Speaker 2: was,
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Speaker 1: pauline's crystal glasses or whatever. They're, I think they're just regular glass but
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Speaker 1: it all came together and look beautiful and Caitlin and I made arrangements to go down the middle and we dotted it with little votive candles and it just, I've got pictures. I'm really hoping we'll be able to put them up on social media so you can see there's already one of my twitter but it was so satisfying and all my girlfriends kept trying to help out
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Speaker 1: by clearing or trying to serve and I said Caitlin and I just looked at them and we said, no
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Speaker 1: tonight is about you relaxing and it's about us hosting and we don't want you to help. I was also scared to death that anybody was actually going to break the china so I didn't want anyone to break it but me but it was like, nope, I want, you know like I kind of ate a little faster than everyone else and I would prepare the next
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Speaker 1: of course and um I would clear it while Caitlin then served the course. So it was like
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Speaker 1: people were getting there, you know, it was just, it
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Speaker 2: was, I thought I want to come back to it, but I also want to acknowledge just how much fun it is um to really to set a nice table.
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Speaker 1: It was, it was so much fun and we did a pretty cheese board and like, you know, it was like we did it up and it worked, it was great.
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Speaker 2: You start off by saying, I don't know how much you entertainment as you know, sort of have a smaller cabin, I don't have room to do as many people, but particularly
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Speaker 2: um right after I got the first set of china I really liked, I did several small dinner parties, even just six people sitting around the table, but, but actually setting the table having a place mat underneath the place, the coordinated set of silver and napkins and tablecloths. It is fun and it makes people feel special and I think it made me feel special as a host to be able to do that and set that out for folks and
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Speaker 2: for our generation. I do think that's sometimes a surprise, at least in Vermont
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Speaker 1: at least in that we're very used to doing, I will say that this was different and it was really hard for my friends to get
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Speaker 1: into their heads that no, this was a night where you sit and you kind of do the more formal thing, you aren't going to help out because we aren't going to let you, we want this to be where
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Speaker 1: you sit and you enjoy this and you focus on Aaron who's our honoree and let us kind of work the party around you
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Speaker 1: because you're the guests
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Speaker 2: and and and maybe you're even a guest of honor and maybe it's time to to accept some of that attention is a very good job accepting
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Speaker 1: it. In fact it was, it's one of those things where um we haven't all seen each other in a little while because people have now
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Speaker 1: moved to different towns and that sort of thing and um it was great to get together and it was, she said to me she goes I'm so glad you did this as an all girls thing because I've been missing my girls
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Speaker 1: and to celebrate this with you and to remember that you all are going to be a strong part of my life even though I'm committing it to someone else's huge.
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Speaker 2: Good for you bravo and thank you for taking us to that side of the bachelorette party because
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Speaker 1: it's not a bachelorette party
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Speaker 2: though, I know there's going to
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Speaker 1: be that party
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Speaker 2: party is coming. All
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Speaker 1: that party is coming also
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Speaker 2: pooch and I were talking about it, she had her bachelorette party and
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Speaker 2: I like the spirit of it being a a celebration. Not sort of a morning of the singlehood that's lost and all the things that will never be the same. Although I see a little, a little smile playing on the corners of your mouth.
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Speaker 1: Well I wasn't there, so I don't know what they
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Speaker 2: did
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Speaker 2: sure, and I didn't ask too many questions either
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Speaker 2: but but I do think that there's there's something to the evolution of the thinking around that party um actually, well and I noticed that you say you liked that it was all women because I did a couple of showers also over the last month.
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Speaker 1: She did, I couldn't go which was a shame but I heard it was fabulous
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Speaker 2: and I again I hear the stories, these were
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Speaker 1: all
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Speaker 2: ladies showers
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Speaker 2: um but some of pooches, cousins have had some Jack and Jill showers and she really liked having the men around and I heard from some of the men and her family, they sort of came up and then we're separate and they said well we were kind of missing half the kids are here, half the kids are there were they wanted more of that big family gathering, they wanted to celebrate together.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Pete and Elizabeth did a Jack and Jill shower, I remember um and I think it was for for alexander, they did a Jack and Jill baby shower and
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Speaker 1: I really loved having all the guys there, I thought it kind of you know it let us know everyone was a part of this.
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Speaker 2: Sure, frankly I didn't mind having an afternoon to watch Masters golf in another room with some
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Speaker 1: uncles. You know, I was thinking about this like more really big football fans should get married in the fall so that their bachelor parties can involve a football game. I'm just saying
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Speaker 2: I'm not going to say who, but I will definitely say I know a couple of people that planned their wedding. So anniversaries would not interfere with football season for the rest of their lives.
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Speaker 1: That's really funny.
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Speaker 1: Oh man. Well it's definitely fun getting a chance to celebrate something and I could
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Speaker 2: talk parties all day. I should probably get some questions
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Speaker 1: Sure you're right, but there's so much to learn how to do. Sure there's a lot to learn, but it's worth it. And learning is easy. One way is by watching others
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Speaker 2: on each and every episode of awesome etiquette. We take your questions on how to behave. Let's get started.
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Speaker 2: Our first question begins,
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Speaker 2: Dear lizzie and dan, I love your podcast and enjoy so much good food for thought from your show. I have an etiquette issue that I hope you will help with. My husband has been coordinating a men's weekly breakfast group at church for the past three years. He coordinates the volunteers serves as the emcee
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Speaker 2: and rise faithfully every thursday morning at four AM to be there by five a.m. In order to help set out breakfast for the 40 other men who arrive at six AM.
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Speaker 2: This has been a wonderful experience for him as I am sure it has been for the other men. The group takes a break over the summer and yesterday was their last meeting before their break. He was deeply touched when the entire group presented him with a beautiful picture to hang at our home plus gracious thank you cards.
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Speaker 2: In addition, they gave him a very generous gift certificate for he and I to go to a lovely steak house in our city and included $60 cash to pay for a babysitter. We have two young Children.
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Speaker 2: My husband was at once touched and uncomfortable.
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Speaker 2: Here is our dilemma. I think that he has worked hard and all of the men wanted to express that he does matter to them and this is just lovely, enthusiastically thanking everyone is what is in order. He feels that we should take the $60 and put it towards hosting a barbecue for all of the men and their families to come to our house
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Speaker 2: while I am not opposed and would be glad to host the families. I think that it is not necessary to do it with the money they gave to use to pay for the babysitting
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Speaker 2: and frankly we have young kids and could really use a nice night out. What do you think? Am I being stingy?
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Speaker 2: Is he just uncomfortable with gifts? Thank you for your consideration.
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Speaker 1: I definitely say use it for the babysitting 100%. There's no question in my mind, that's what the money is intended for. Um, this man clearly has a heart of service and is always in, you know, give back mode and this is one of those rare times when it's best to accept the gift and use it for what it was intended.
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Speaker 1: Um,
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Speaker 1: I think if you, if you give it back, you kind of, you eliminate the intention that it came, the generosity that it came with. Um, it was, it's in some ways it's like re gifting a gift.
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Speaker 1: Um, in some ways it's like what we were talking about yesterday in our train, the trainer program. Thank you. Oh no, thank you. It's, you aren't accepting their thanks. You're actually giving it away. And there's a,
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Speaker 1: you know, there's a philosophy that says that's what you should do. And some people are really driven by that to never accept anything. But I think allowing those men to have um, to have their generosity played out in the way that it was intended I think is what they should do in this situation. So go to this, go to the lovely steakhouse, hire the babysitter because that's what the money was for. I mean,
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Speaker 1: if your father gave you money for something and you spent it on something else. How would he feel?
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Speaker 2: We always say it's the thought that counts
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Speaker 1: and that you need to pay attention to that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So I definitely say accept it. Um, you know, with the grace in which it was given and I think that you'll do just fine and y'all can throw a barbecue for them anyway. You can do that. He could say midsummer, I've missed you guys. I want to see you come to my house for dinner.
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Speaker 2: I see that as a strong possibility coming. I
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Speaker 1: know right. But we hope that that helps and definitely enjoy your night out.
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Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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Speaker 1: Our next question begins,
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Speaker 1: Dear daniel and lizzie awesome etiquette is my soundtrack while I'm driving to and from work, getting ready to go out cooking food, doing the dishes and cleaning the house. I've been binge listening to your episodes so much that I can't even remember how I originally found your podcast,
00:12:33
Speaker 1: A very special thanks to you and your production team, which I'm so glad someone's giving a shout out to um for all of your great work,
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Speaker 1: one episode reminded me of the fork tines down in the left hand knife in the right rule. I love that you point out that
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Speaker 1: it's an easier, more efficient and more convenient way of eating because it helped me remember the rule.
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Speaker 2: That's
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Speaker 1: what I'm glad. However, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the tilt the spoon away from you
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Speaker 1: rule for eating soup. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a spoon that way outside of a cotillion class and it seems a little awkward. Do you know how or why the tilt the spoon away from me rule originated. Thank you so much for all of your good advice, sincerely Christina and I think she doesn't actually mean tilt the spoon. This is you tilt the bowl a little bit away from you
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Speaker 1: and it's actually more so that
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Speaker 1: that you use the spoon against the far edge of your of your bowl, not not the close edge. So dan
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Speaker 2: the the way that I've always heard this explained is that it's it's some sort of self preservation, protect yourself move that it comes from the heart of practicality that you're scooping away from yourself. You're less likely to
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Speaker 2: to draw that spoon towards yourself and unintentionally have a drip fall off the bottom of the spoon onto the tablecloth, your laptop, your lapels. Um The the intentionality of scooping away from yourself of tilting the bowl away from yourself to get that last bit and to clear the drip on the bottom of your spoon on the side of the bowl that's away from you. Is
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Speaker 2: is the thinking there no need to overthink it too too much. Just trying to avoid the appearance of shoveling that food into your mouth of hunching down and shoveling away.
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Speaker 2: Um
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Speaker 1: That's really where it comes from. I mean it's this is one of those practical, simple answers that we rarely get to give
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Speaker 2: and it's funny because it is one of those little ones that people notice and tend to hold onto and maybe it's because it's
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Speaker 1: because
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Speaker 1: um,
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Speaker 2: we hope that helps. I I wish I could track it back to you into a particular lord and some medieval castle somewhere who made a declaration. I
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Speaker 1: think it's better that it's rooted in practicality because then it makes sense for everyone.
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Speaker 2: Me too.
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Speaker 1: We
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Speaker 2: hope that helps Christina and tip away. What is it?
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Speaker 2: Dip away,
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Speaker 2: tip away drip
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Speaker 1: away.
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Speaker 1: Our
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Speaker 2: next question is hysterically labeled the temporary vegetarian. It begins Hi lizzie and Daniel. I recently received a wedding invitation from a friend. The response card featured two protein choices for the entree while I'm sure they will both be delicious. I do not eat either of them. This is not for religious or dietary restrictions, but because I do not like them.
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Speaker 2: two other friends of mine are attending the wedding are also in the same boat
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Speaker 2: and have chosen to pick an entree that and then only eat the sides. I would prefer to ask for a vegetarian option. I don't want to create more work for my friend, but I also don't want to waste their money on food that won't be eaten. The response card said to let the couple know if you have any dietary concerns,
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Speaker 2: which I assume is for vegans, vegetarians and guests with allergies. That means there might be some flexibility or additional options that could fit on the card
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Speaker 2: Is it All right to ask for a vegetarian option Even though
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Speaker 2: I don't have any dietary restrictions? I recognize that I'm behaving like a child with a picky palate, which is why I'm so hesitant to bring it up to my friend getting married. Generally I'm not a picky eater. Currently my best idea is to pretend to be a vegetarian for the next six weeks, but I don't think that is the proper way to handle the situation.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for your advice and the wonderful podcast. Aaron
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Speaker 2: PS entree choices are pork tenderloin and atlantic salmon. I don't know if that makes a difference.
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Speaker 1: I, I loved the PS in Aaron's note just because it's like, just maybe because it's pork or salmon. Like I don't know, maybe there's a special rule about those two. It's kind
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Speaker 2: of fishy and I really don't eat
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Speaker 1: pork,
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Speaker 1: but it's not for religious reasons. It's just because I don't like, I just love that she's so honest about the fact that it's like
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Speaker 2: me too. And I think that honesty is going to be a guide here. Well,
00:16:32
Speaker 1: I think so too. But I personally, I don't really know what to tell Aaron because I could see the answer coming down on either side. I totally, personally, I don't think it's going to be a huge deal if she just says, hey, do you mind if I choose a vegetarian option this time around?
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Speaker 1: Um, and I also feel like hosts always want their guests to really enjoy everything? So why not? Why would they at all feel bad about this. Usually vegetarian options are less expensive, so I wouldn't imagine that it's
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Speaker 2: most people are planning for it, don't
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Speaker 1: want to waste food. I don't know you, what do you think you
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Speaker 1: give her the real answer
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Speaker 2: here?
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Speaker 2: I think the true answer is you've got to follow your heart and I trust this person's heart. The fact that she is investigating the honesty of the statement.
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Speaker 2: Am I really a vegetarian? But I oftentimes caution people around food allergies when you're making demands on a host. Do you have a food allergy or do you have a food allergy? Are you allergic to cats or are you really allergic to cats? And she's being honest with herself about that. I'm a vegetarian in quote.
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Speaker 2: I think it's okay to be a vegetarian in quotes if I can remember to do it for long flights. I like to do it even though, you know, I'll eat good meat when it's around,
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Speaker 1: but I think, I don't think she has to pretend to be a vegetarian for six months.
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Speaker 2: I don't think she does
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Speaker 1: ask if you can have the vegetarian option and
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Speaker 2: I like the tone of the way you asked your host, would it be alright if I made that request this time?
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Speaker 1: And
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Speaker 2: our question asked her is also they're acknowledging this is a wedding that they really want to acknowledge that level of formality. Take care with that ask. I think that even just that level of awareness is going to make that ask a reasonable ask.
00:18:09
Speaker 1: I think so too, and it sounds like she's close, close with the, with the, with the bride. I mean, I just, I don't,
00:18:15
Speaker 1: I just don't think this is going to be a huge deal and
00:18:18
Speaker 1: truthfully I'm, I'm going to just say it. I I wish your friend had put a vegetarian option on that card to begin with because there are times like you where you just don't feel like eating meat, you know, maybe it's been a heavy couple of days and you decide you'd like something lighter. Um I think it's nice when that option is simply there to begin with. So
00:18:37
Speaker 1: I'm just, I'm, I'm feeling casual today, my votes in the do what you feel like it,
00:18:43
Speaker 2: I like the spirit and get, get a meal that you're going to enjoy and that your host is going to be proud to serve you.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: So dan, when I put on the response card, oh, you're having a buffet wedding, it doesn't matter.
00:18:52
Speaker 2: I think probably more than half of the attendees are vegetarian, we're gonna have delicious vegetarian food,
00:18:57
Speaker 1: are you gonna have any meat though?
00:18:59
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, so
00:19:00
Speaker 1: I don't have to write in steak,
00:19:05
Speaker 1: um Excuse me, Daniel, I'd like a lobster, I'm a pesca terrian
00:19:09
Speaker 2: right now. No,
00:19:10
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, That's
00:19:11
Speaker 2: just a little teasing
00:19:13
Speaker 1: a
00:19:15
Speaker 1: enjoy your vegetarian option
00:19:18
Speaker 2: Indeed.
00:19:20
Speaker 1: Our next question is a little bit sensitive in nature.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: Hi lizzie and dan. My husband and I bought her home about two years ago and mostly we've been lucky and our neighbors have been great. There is one rather delicate exception. Our next door neighbor has a daughter who is moderately autistic. She's very sweet but not high functioning.
00:19:39
Speaker 1: She's of legal age and lives at home but seems to be left alone Much of the time we often hear her shouting at her television or making other loud noises, which we can deal with by closing the windows, etcetera. And we don't fault her for it or really mind all that much at all.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: Overall, we're on good terms with the family, but we aren't close.
00:19:58
Speaker 1: There's one behavior that we need some help to bring up to her mother.
00:20:03
Speaker 1: Their house is slightly uphill from ours and looks out onto our side yard.
00:20:08
Speaker 1: We will on occasion find things like food wrappers or old cds tossed out into our side yard either from her adjacent second floor bedroom window or from their backyard.
00:20:19
Speaker 1: As of yet we've been picking them up and quietly disposing of them. But yesterday the debris headed our way was a tree branch about a foot long before you asked. There's nowhere else this branch could have come from and the end was cut, it wasn't just broken off,
00:20:34
Speaker 1: luckily it landed on the pavement and not through a window or on one of us, but the potential for future damage or injury does concern us, especially as we're looking to have small Children running around in the near future. How do we approach her mother about this behavior without sounding accusatory or judgmental?
00:20:51
Speaker 1: We are aware of how challenging autism can be, but there are limits to our patients, especially when it comes to our family's safety.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: We also haven't previously mentioned these other objects that have come into our yard. So there's not exactly a precedent for, oh, by the way, this is accelerating.
00:21:07
Speaker 1: Please help anonymous
00:21:09
Speaker 1: tough situation. Right? It's a tough
00:21:12
Speaker 2: one for sure. And congratulations on the new home and the new neighborhood
00:21:16
Speaker 1: and hopefully the new
00:21:17
Speaker 2: family and hopefully the new family.
00:21:21
Speaker 2: To me, this sounds like a neighbor's communication question and we, we've had a couple of different versions and they often are tricky because it's so important to have good relationships with your neighbors and it can make life so much easier if those relationships are in good shape. Um, the heart of good etiquette being good relationship skills to me, these are some fundamental etiquette questions
00:21:41
Speaker 1: and here at the level of sensitivity that you understand that this is just a little bit different. That, you know, you want to take a little bit more care that a mother might be just either a little bit more sensitive or that you don't want to come across having said anything that
00:21:57
Speaker 1: you know, could offend.
00:21:58
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you're, it's almost impossible to be aware of all the details around a situation like this.
00:22:05
Speaker 2: So I think that um, really taking responsibility for how you feel about the situation is a great way to, to approach it and to think about approaching the conversation. And I absolutely think, I mean your, your, your neighbors having a conversation is, is the place to start. Um, and I thought the question ended by really getting around to that because we haven't talked about this.
00:22:25
Speaker 2: It's escalating or changing. Um,
00:22:28
Speaker 2: it is difficult to acknowledge or bring into the discussion. So I think that it's really just time to raise it with the neighbor. Um,
00:22:35
Speaker 2: our tips for having difficult or challenging conversations are you, um, take responsibility that you be prepared to negotiate, be prepared to listen to what the other person has to say, to learn something
00:22:47
Speaker 2: to look for a situation that's some kind of compromise to have some solutions that you might propose
00:22:53
Speaker 1: and to acknowledge and validate the other person's experience or
00:22:59
Speaker 1: history or comments as they come to you.
00:23:02
Speaker 2: Yes. And I mean, I think some sample language is just going to
00:23:05
Speaker 1: say some sample
00:23:06
Speaker 2: language. You know, if if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd hoped that you'd feel comfortable talking to me or if there was something going on that you want to talk about. I hope that you feel comfortable approaching me and I want you to. and
00:23:19
Speaker 2: um,
00:23:19
Speaker 1: jane, I just thought there was something that, that we should talk about?
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Absolutely just a little bit of priming for the discussion that can be anything doesn't like, Oh, there's something really serious I need to talk to you about. Can we sit down on thursday and
00:23:32
Speaker 1: anonymous? This is definitely all about a really gentle tone.
00:23:36
Speaker 1: Um, and and gentle doesn't mean patronizing.
00:23:40
Speaker 1: Um, it doesn't mean talking to anyone like they're an infant. Um, it means just a soft tone that's really showing that you're calm and that you just really, you do have concerns and you just wanted to address them in in a calm and gentle nature.
00:23:55
Speaker 2: We've often talked on this show about the vast majority of rude behavior being unintentional, people being unaware. So maybe just the act of bringing some awareness to the,
00:24:05
Speaker 2: the fact that there's debris, trash ending up on your yard might be enough to cause your neighbors to figure out some sort of solution. Some way to resolve the situation
00:24:15
Speaker 1: to say that it's escalated to a tree branch, say, you know, we've, we've noticed that on occasion, you know, rappers and cds kind of wind up in our yard and
00:24:25
Speaker 1: um, you know, we always just pick them up and throw them out. No big deal stuff blows around. I
00:24:29
Speaker 2: mean it's so
00:24:31
Speaker 1: simple, but the other day we did happen to notice that it was a tree branch and it looked like it had been cut as opposed to
00:24:39
Speaker 1: two,
00:24:40
Speaker 1: what am I trying to say broken. And so we just thought that, that you should know and just be aware that it might have escalated to a new level of things coming over the fence or you know across the, across the line or the property line or whatever you want to say at the yard
00:24:57
Speaker 2: and you've avoided making any accusations, you've avoided um
00:25:01
Speaker 2: anything sort of accusatory about that. It's more just about bringing awareness to the situation
00:25:06
Speaker 1: and it might, it might be the kind of thing where you you do, I'm assuming that at some point you've seen the daughter actually throw something and I'm assuming that because otherwise
00:25:17
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but things like cds and trash
00:25:18
Speaker 2: could actually have
00:25:19
Speaker 1: blown over. But you would,
00:25:22
Speaker 1: I do want you to be 100% certain that it is the daughter that these things are coming from
00:25:28
Speaker 1: because
00:25:29
Speaker 1: At some point in the conversation, if you are 100% certain you may actually have to say that you understand these things are coming over because the daughter is throwing them because otherwise the the other parent might just be, like well.
00:25:44
Speaker 1: so what, it could have been anything, you know what I mean? It's you do actually have to address that you have a concern that it's coming from the daughter and that it is the parents responsibility to
00:25:54
Speaker 1: keep an eye on that.
00:25:56
Speaker 1: Um you don't have to say it the way I just said it though. I would not say it that way, but you may have to address it. If you are 100% certain that the daughter through it
00:26:04
Speaker 2: And if you're not 100% certain be prepared to cede that territory and stuff. I think it's coming from your yard and
00:26:12
Speaker 2: um you do the best you can from there and and then you at least then you both know the assumption that you're operating with.
00:26:17
Speaker 1: Exactly. But we truly hope that that situation gets resolved for you soon, especially because it can become a safety concern for sure.
00:26:25
Speaker 1: But this also might be a one time
00:26:27
Speaker 2: branch.
00:26:29
Speaker 1: Our
00:26:30
Speaker 2: next question begins. How many questions have begun at the institute?
00:26:34
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:26:35
Speaker 2: Wait, was that a date?
00:26:36
Speaker 1: Wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. I thought you were going to say how many of these questions begin on the podcast? I'm a big fan of your show in your segment on DPD. I totally fell for that.
00:26:49
Speaker 1: But yes, questions coming from me do result in wait, was that a date?
00:26:54
Speaker 2: All
00:26:56
Speaker 1: right, go for it. I am sympathizing with you reader already, listener already.
00:27:03
Speaker 2: We'll let everyone in on the joke. Our next question begins. Hi lizzie and dan. I'm a big fan of your show and your segment on D. P. D. I have a question for you regarding an accidental date.
00:27:13
Speaker 2: I recently bumped into an acquaintance of mine for the second time in as many months. We lived near each other. It turns out I know him from several years back when we went on a few dates before I told him that I wasn't interested. We hung out a few times as friends until that fizzled after running into each other a second time. He suggested we get a beer sometime. I was certain that I had mentioned my boyfriend at some point in our conversation the first time we had run into one another. So I felt secure in thinking he wasn't asking me on a date.
00:27:38
Speaker 2: Anyway it seemed perfectly natural to suggest getting a beer after running into someone, you know, a few times I agreed and we exchanged numbers. He followed up soon after after some rescheduling. We finally planned to meet on a Tuesday night when he suggested a fairly date like place I started getting nervous. Was this a date? Did he think it was a date?
00:27:57
Speaker 2: I thought it had seemed so casual up to that point, including how we communicated over scheduling that it was clearly not anything more than a few would be friends getting together
00:28:06
Speaker 2: the moment we met up for the non date date, it seemed pretty clear that he had dressed up for the occasion. He works from home, so he certainly wasn't in his work clothes.
00:28:14
Speaker 2: So I do believe he thought it was a date
00:28:16
Speaker 2: I was quick to pay for my own drink and I managed to seamlessly work the fact that I had a boyfriend into the conversation early on in the night. I could sense him reacting to that news, but he played it cool. We had a few drinks and parted ways. It was perfectly nice and friendly, which is what I had originally expected. Anyway. Still, I feel unsettled about it.
00:28:34
Speaker 2: On the one hand, I resent the idea that he would have
00:28:37
Speaker 2: even had the expectation that it was a date just because he bumps into me a few times and we exchanged friendly conversation. He assumes that I'm single
00:28:44
Speaker 1: or
00:28:45
Speaker 2: that if I agree to meet that I am single. I have no problem with him wanting to hang out. But it just seemed like a pretty sneaky way to score a date disguising it as
00:28:53
Speaker 1: we should catch up.
00:28:54
Speaker 2: Sometime on the other hand, I feel like perhaps I was being naive
00:28:58
Speaker 2: and I should have been more guarded. Perhaps I should have found a way to work the word boyfriend into conversation as soon as possible. But that feels both cynical and presumptuous. I am aware of the fact that agreeing to grab a drink with a member of the opposite sex or same, depending on the sexuality of the folks involved often has a subtext. But is it always that way
00:29:17
Speaker 2: in the above scenario, how could I have agreed to a drink without giving him the wrong idea? Or would there have been a way to decline the drink? At no point? Would it have seemed appropriate to say something like just so you know, I have a boyfriend, but do I have a responsibility to convey that information in some ideally more subtle way? As soon as possible? Or does he have a responsibility to assume that I am not on the market unless I were to give him a more clear signal.
00:29:40
Speaker 2: It feels unfair that just being friendly and positive gives some people the wrong idea.
00:29:44
Speaker 2: But obviously that does happen, especially to my more outgoing friends. I don't want to be naive but I also don't want to be rude. Your insights would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, friendly but not available.
00:29:56
Speaker 1: I so sympathize, friendly but not available. I mean I literally the number of times dan and I have had all three or four of the conversations that we're about to talk about in his office on a morning on a monday morning because it's usually after the weekend like
00:30:13
Speaker 1: dan, I was just talking to him. I was just being nice. I had no idea that he was interested or I had no idea I was on a date but I showed up, he insisted on paying, which I really wasn't comfortable about.
00:30:25
Speaker 2: I thought I was on a date all night long at the end of the night, he asked me to pay for half of it and now I'm really
00:30:30
Speaker 1: confused.
00:30:31
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on
00:30:34
Speaker 1: and then the conversation with you of um back when you were single of and she says within two seconds that she has a boyfriend. It's like she just assuming that I know, I mean, we've had both sides of these this situation in on
00:30:48
Speaker 2: the flip side. Why don't they get that out in the conversation soon
00:30:51
Speaker 1: enough? Just let
00:30:52
Speaker 2: me know that I can
00:30:54
Speaker 1: to avoid um what some might consider swearing on our show. I will say darned if you do and darned if you don't. I mean you there, you know, Gosh, no good deed goes unpunished.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: But it is
00:31:07
Speaker 2: the delicate dance
00:31:08
Speaker 1: and you know what? I'm not I'm not sure that there is a right answer because you are dealing with another person and you don't know what their feelings are. And I'm going to say a couple of things here. Number one,
00:31:19
Speaker 2: I saw you nodding throughout the questions, there are definitely things that that
00:31:23
Speaker 1: and and things that I've just been navigating myself. And it's so freaking hard. I'm just gonna say it is so hard because you're dealing with someone else's emotions or you're dealing with your own emotions and not try. I mean, it's not your fault. I like you like it's not my fault. You like me,
00:31:40
Speaker 2: like my fault. That I like the fact that you like me, even though, I mean there's so,
00:31:45
Speaker 1: it goes so deep in so many different ways and
00:31:48
Speaker 1: yes, there are times when I have guy friends I really would like to be just friends with but I am
00:31:57
Speaker 1: kind and exuberant and and friendly and and people don't get that. That's just me, whether I'm talking to you or I'm talking to the person that I just met at the waiting room at the dentist's. You know,
00:32:08
Speaker 1: and it's so unfair, anonymous. It is so unfair because you want to just be able to be yourself and sometimes you get a little punished for it. Now I just want to be fair to the guy that we're writing about. It actually doesn't seem like he punished
00:32:21
Speaker 2: you for this.
00:32:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they handled
00:32:25
Speaker 1: it well. He played it cool when you mentioned that you had a boyfriend.
00:32:28
Speaker 2: Yeah,
00:32:29
Speaker 1: you needed to mention that you had a boyfriend at some point. You need to explain your own situation so that he could understand.
00:32:36
Speaker 1: Um
00:32:37
Speaker 1: But I also think that
00:32:39
Speaker 1: I have come to the realization that that's just how it is that there are times where um people will flirt with you and then you find out they're married or you you know or they have a girlfriend or they're just out of a relationship and they're not ready and it's really, really, really hard
00:32:57
Speaker 1: because you're like but you were doing the flirting thing or you were being your you know your kind self
00:33:04
Speaker 1: and I'm sure he felt a little bit like that. Well, why did you even want to get together with me and you're like, well, you know, I'm trying to do the nice thing here, you know, I didn't have a horrible time when I knew you um you're an interesting person and even though I didn't want to date you and
00:33:19
Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, they didn't really keep in touch as friends. I don't know.
00:33:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely see it going.
00:33:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, she could have turned it. She could, she could have, it's so hard because you're in that moment, you're like, yeah, we should grab a drink and catch up and the danger of saying those words or that someone's going to either pull out a phone or you're going to say that the next 15 times you run into each other, You know,
00:33:41
Speaker 2: So
00:33:41
Speaker 2: a couple of maybe pieces of advice that started to emerge for me out of this
00:33:45
Speaker 1: question,
00:33:46
Speaker 2: when, when when are you obligated to tell someone that you are hitched? And I
00:33:51
Speaker 1: would say as
00:33:52
Speaker 2: soon as you start to notice their interest peaking or bubbling up, that it's not the kind of thing where as you approach a conversation and you're not wearing a wedding or engagement ring, but you are off the market that you have to declare it. I don't think that's necessarily the case, but I do think
00:34:06
Speaker 1: as
00:34:07
Speaker 2: soon as you notice the other person starting to maybe
00:34:11
Speaker 1: expressed some interest in
00:34:13
Speaker 2: that area and Exactly, or
00:34:15
Speaker 2: maybe when he asks you out, it's not for coffee after work, but it's for a drink sometime, maybe as soon as you start to get the feel for whatever the signal is that starts to tell you that this person's interested or is trying to find out or check
00:34:27
Speaker 1: out. So let me just go through one with you on this, just to see how it feels. So if you um
00:34:35
Speaker 1: if you ran into someone, let's say this before you met um you ran into somebody and you know, you were genuinely excited to see her again. Maybe not because you were interested and she says to you, you know, you say yeah we should grab, you know like we used to be in this dance class together blah blah blah,
00:34:54
Speaker 1: we should grab a drink sometime, you know, and then she said you say that to her
00:34:58
Speaker 1: and then she says to you, you know, I really would like to I just I want you to know that I am in a relationship now.
00:35:04
Speaker 2: Does it
00:35:05
Speaker 1: feel you? Are you sure? Because
00:35:08
Speaker 1: I don't know man, I've seen you come in on the yeah, oh God, like so arrogant. You thought I liked, you know if
00:35:15
Speaker 2: I'd asked to go have a drink with someone that I think I wouldn't I wouldn't be upset if that was the first thing out of their mouth or if I said how are you doing?
00:35:23
Speaker 2: So good, I've never been better. I'm six months into the best relationship of my life. I think there are ways to deliver that is a
00:35:29
Speaker 1: really good way to deliver that long before you ever wind up
00:35:34
Speaker 1: saying anything because you're just expressing your happy and why you're happy in life right
00:35:38
Speaker 2: now. Exactly. Whereas I think that that would be a way to be okay to get that information out on the table quickly. Maybe the more,
00:35:45
Speaker 2: well just so, you know, I'm in a relationship right now might be a bit a
00:35:50
Speaker 1: bit much right? I think, I think it would be a bit much, but I like the idea of if you do run into someone and I think
00:35:56
Speaker 1: take some cues, take some cues that if you run into someone you've been on a date before, or there has been mutual interest between the two of you.
00:36:03
Speaker 1: Be clear when you first answer the question, how have you been? I'm doing great, I've you know, I'm seeing a great guy, my job's going well, I just, I feel like things are great right
00:36:13
Speaker 2: now and then it's up to them and someone might say
00:36:17
Speaker 2: I'm, you know, I'd be as interested in going out having a drink as a friend, as anything. In fact, I used to dance with you regularly, I know you're a great wingman, whatever it is, but then they know, and they're in the loop and they've got that
00:36:29
Speaker 1: information really like that dan. I think that's really, really good.
00:36:33
Speaker 1: As far as some of the other stuff. What do you think
00:36:35
Speaker 2: on the flip side? I would say? Um,
00:36:37
Speaker 2: for everyone out there oftentimes we direct this advice to guys, but it can really go to anybody. And I think I'd like to modify that advice. Ask people out well ask them in a way that they know what your intentions are. Um, and what are the elements of a good ask you? You invite them to do a specific thing with you? So they know what they're saying yes or no to the,
00:36:57
Speaker 2: oh, we should get together sometime or I'd love to hang out sometimes those are great sentiments to express, but those aren't asks unless they're
00:37:04
Speaker 1: followed up by a specific date time and place. That's not an ask
00:37:08
Speaker 2: a good,
00:37:09
Speaker 1: that's an intention.
00:37:10
Speaker 2: Someone something to say yes or no to and take some responsibility for making that ask and
00:37:16
Speaker 2: you're going to get more nose, but you're also going to get more yeses and, and that's good. It's okay to get some nose and some yeses
00:37:22
Speaker 1: and I want to the, to the dating world out there who because I feel Pete cousin Pete and I were talking about this and we just
00:37:29
Speaker 2: call him cousin Pete
00:37:30
Speaker 1: on the show cousin Pete and I were talking about this, that he's floored by the fact that guys, especially in my age bracket. Don't ask women out on dates very often. It's,
00:37:40
Speaker 1: hey, do you want to get together with a drink sometime for a drink sometime?
00:37:44
Speaker 1: You know, it's not, it's not what you're talking about a formal ask. And in some ways I understand allowing room for something to be something that you explore.
00:37:54
Speaker 1: Um, I personally wish that there was a bit more honesty in the exploration and not so much fear. So be honest, like, hey, yeah, let's go out on a date and if it's good date, great, we'll go out again and if it's not, we don't have to worry about it. We know.
00:38:09
Speaker 1: And I wish there was more of that attitude about it because what I feel like happens is you get the, yeah, let's grab a drink sometime and you don't know if you're meeting up with them and their friends or you don't know if you're just meeting up, you know, before they go out so that they have an out to go out with other, oh well I've got plans now, so bye.
00:38:27
Speaker 1: You know, or hey girls, you know, this is going really well, I don't want to see, you know,
00:38:31
Speaker 1: it's, I appreciate that it gives them so many options, but I also think that it creates situations like this one where she's, she's feeling like, I don't know what just happened. I don't know if I just hurt somebody's feelings and I feel odd about that,
00:38:46
Speaker 2: but because it wasn't
00:38:48
Speaker 2: the big ask the big date in some ways, it's in that more informal territory, they each pay their own way. And those are all things that that are are question asked is doing really well to establish this is not a date. You're you're you're in many ways giving us the template for how to navigate this kind of a trickier, awkward situation. And I also,
00:39:06
Speaker 2: before we leave it completely, I want to acknowledge that I appreciate your willingness to to shed a certain naivete to to not pretend that this isn't going on right below the surface. That, um, that that there there is um,
00:39:22
Speaker 2: a romantic interest that drives a lot of what we do that motivates us and to to pretend that that's not at play in play isn't to be addressing everything that's going on socially and
00:39:34
Speaker 2: to try to stick your head in the sand and just say, well, I'm not responsible. I don't have to tell people I'm hitched they should behave better or vice versa. To feel like you have to walk around with a placard on your chest telling people don't approach me
00:39:45
Speaker 2: with any of your silly romantic intentions are are two extremes that we want to navigate between with with subtlety
00:39:53
Speaker 1: well, and, you know, at the end of the day, you know, she asked the question about, you know, so I understand that grabbing a drink has a certain subtext to it, it doesn't have to,
00:40:05
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't I think that we live in a day and age where, you know, it's no longer men and women at separate schools all the time or on separate sides of the classroom. Like we really interact. I have tons of guy friends, I do grab drinks with lots of people and so I still, personally, I still do come down on the, on the camp that at some point early on in this evening that you have or this grabbing of this drink
00:40:32
Speaker 1: um whether it's with the ask and the way that you ask or whether it's in where you go and how you look when you show up there or third, it's the conversation that actually starts to involve, I think you you need to make it clear at some point what your intentions are.
00:40:47
Speaker 2: But no, you don't have to shut down your social life and you don't have to segregate yourself from half the population
00:40:52
Speaker 1: should be able to go out and have a drink with someone. And again, um, best case scenario, the person who is interested does a proper asked so that, you know, and you who are now in a great relationship, let someone know very early on in that gentle way where you're just talking about
00:41:09
Speaker 1: what it is that's going on in your life. I'm seeing a great guy and I'm really happy
00:41:14
Speaker 2: and thank you for this remarkable question. I think you've really mapped out one of the trickier situations we deal with. Excuse
00:41:20
Speaker 1: me, hope maybe I'll tell someone soon that I'm in a great relationship. Good
00:41:25
Speaker 2: work. Here's to hope.
00:41:28
Speaker 1: Well now wasn't that better? Look at the effect of a little politeness? Thanks to everyone for sending in your questions and remember we love updates. If we answered your question on the show or if you have a comment about one of our questions, please feel free to send it in. You can also submit your question to awesome etiquette, Emily post dot com
00:41:47
Speaker 1: or send it in via facebook or twitter. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette so that we know you want it on the show.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: Post script. It's time for postscript.
00:42:08
Speaker 2: Post script today.
00:42:10
Speaker 2: Today. Our post script is gonna address the topic of thank you notes. This should be a greatest hits post script as far as I'm concerned.
00:42:18
Speaker 1: You know, what's going to happen after this episode, right?
00:42:21
Speaker 1: That we're just just Murphy's law. We're going to get like eight questions about thank you notes and it's going to be like, come on, didn't you listen to episode 34. We talked all about it. And all
00:42:31
Speaker 2: of the regular listeners out there can say, I know, I know I know how to do this,
00:42:35
Speaker 1: this will be like quiz time. Get ready. Answer the question before. We I've
00:42:38
Speaker 2: been thinking, let's break down the structure of a thank you note, but I think you had some questions that I think are good setup questions that are.
00:42:44
Speaker 1: I also feel like
00:42:45
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to write a thank you know I mean
00:42:48
Speaker 2: It's not and we're gonna make it super simple three
00:42:50
Speaker 1: sentences and opener the thank you and a close but so there you go break it down done. Um, but I think what people get caught up in this is the when and the how and the, but with who I mean this is someone, I get gifts from all the time and my birthday is close to christmas do I can't I wait and said no
00:43:09
Speaker 1: like we're going to answer all of those questions
00:43:11
Speaker 2: thank you notes the sooner the better. But the best is the enemy of the good. So definitely if there's something that happened a while ago that you want to thank someone for by all means do so
00:43:22
Speaker 1: the other way of saying that is ASAP and never too
00:43:25
Speaker 2: late ASAP and never too late. Um big picture, think of thank you notes as opportunities, think of them as um,
00:43:34
Speaker 2: as one of one of your best opportunities to make an impression and build a relationship. Most people do not receive any handwritten mail. The handwritten mail that they receive from you is likely to make a really strong impression. The medium becomes part of the message And I'm just assuming already we're talking about handwritten thank you notes.
00:43:50
Speaker 1: I still have them on my refrigerator and on my desk thank you
00:43:54
Speaker 1: train the trainer from six years ago who wrote me an incredibly beautiful flowing thank you note that just I literally read it when I need to have a better day.
00:44:05
Speaker 1: Um literally this is why it's handwritten because it's amazing and it's nice and it's different and it stands out.
00:44:13
Speaker 1: You also handwrite a thank you note because it shows the importance of which you appreciated the act or the generosity that was bestowed upon you. Um you have to take time to do it. Um you know, the spelling has got to be right on occasion, you cross out the word and write the right one above it. But
00:44:31
Speaker 1: you know, it shows that you made the effort to acknowledge what this person did for you.
00:44:36
Speaker 1: Why write a thank you note for favors for gifts for interviews for parties. If it was a really great party. Yeah. If something has been just any time someone has done something really nice for you or you are feeling gratitude, um that's a good time to write a thank you Note,
00:44:55
Speaker 2: the act of writing a thank you note can be an act of cultivating gratitude.
00:44:59
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:44:59
Speaker 2: And yesterday we were talking in the training that we do hear about Thank you notes and how thank you or thank you in general and how thank you inspire relationships after after you thank someone, the appreciation that someone feels is an important part of it. But there's also the work that it does on your own psychology, the act of consciously identifying things that we're grateful for and and articulating those those thoughts and feelings
00:45:23
Speaker 1: and attitude of gratitude
00:45:25
Speaker 2: is cultivates an attitude of
00:45:28
Speaker 1: gratitude. Love it when I get you man just got super like squinty eyed and big grin laughing at that. I have not
00:45:35
Speaker 2: heard that, that is cheese that
00:45:36
Speaker 1: I can appreciate. The trainer
00:45:39
Speaker 2: did not register
00:45:41
Speaker 1: Because you were talking just getting an attitude of gratitude when we're talking about the 365 thank you is the book
00:45:48
Speaker 2: and a remarkable little book. We talked about our different post script but um so thank you know the act of handwriting, it's it's good for you as well as it is for the person who's going to receive it. So
00:45:59
Speaker 1: when when should you send a thank you text. When should you send a thank you email? When should you call for your thank you in and when should you handwrite it in?
00:46:08
Speaker 2: The handwriting is gonna give the most weight to the thanks
00:46:11
Speaker 1: every time.
00:46:11
Speaker 2: But a quick email, thank you for a smaller favor if you know that's the way that you communicate with someone entirely appropriate and and can even be really nice, really special thoughtful. I mean it's not going to carry the same weight that the handwriting. Thank you know does not going to
00:46:24
Speaker 2: create the same impression, but
00:46:26
Speaker 1: it's still nice to say that this is a great time to employ the platinum rule and to think about what would matter to the other person.
00:46:33
Speaker 1: Um I also think that you have to look at your relationship with the person. And I, as I've said numerous times on the show, my Godmother actually told me you're not allowed to write me handwritten thank you notes. Anymore emails or text messages only. And that was just her way of letting me off the hook on that one. My grandmother I know will always
00:46:52
Speaker 1: appreciate and expect a handwritten thank you note.
00:46:55
Speaker 1: So it's a little bit you need to know your relationship and if you've established that texting, you know, a picture, you know, and a cute little text message about it or whether you've established that a phone call is enough or the email like we said, and often email that does happen and work when it comes to thank you.
00:47:12
Speaker 1: Um or if you've, you've learned that this person was so grateful. Maybe you go to their house and the thank you note that you wrote is still up. So you take the hint.
00:47:20
Speaker 1: Okay, that matters to that person or they're just really bad at cleaning off the refrigerator. Um you know, it's
00:47:27
Speaker 1: whatever it is, establish it in that relationship and then go by those guidelines.
00:47:31
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know this, but with mud and poppy will and I wrote thank you notes after visits for years and years and years and once they've established that we could do that. That that was a mark. We could hit, They actually told us they preferred phone calls.
00:47:42
Speaker 1: They liked
00:47:43
Speaker 2: talking. They liked if we made an effort to call and actually have that, that personal connection, voice to voice, which was sort of fun.
00:47:52
Speaker 2: I
00:47:52
Speaker 1: made the huge mistake of um, at my, my
00:47:56
Speaker 1: college graduation,
00:47:59
Speaker 2: it
00:47:59
Speaker 1: was incredibly grateful to my grandparents for all they did to put us all through college. And um had written a thank you note of that nature to them
00:48:09
Speaker 1: and had also written a thank you note to my other set of grandparents for all their love and support, especially of all the activities that they always helped helped me be able to do. And um,
00:48:21
Speaker 1: both of my grandfathers were named Bill
00:48:25
Speaker 1: and you know what I did?
00:48:26
Speaker 1: I put the wrong note in the wrong
00:48:29
Speaker 2: envelope
00:48:30
Speaker 1: and so my one set got the one that said thank you so much for taking care of college and the other one
00:48:39
Speaker 2: I got the one that
00:48:40
Speaker 1: said thanks for helping me out with all my activities.
00:48:43
Speaker 2: Good thing. Their grandparents, they love you very, very much
00:48:45
Speaker 1: so you need to pay attention when you write your thank you notes and you're writing multiple. The chris, our engineer is pretty much like he's just shaking his head in disbelief. Um, so you need to pay attention when you write your thank you notes. If you're writing multiple notes.
00:48:58
Speaker 2: So another question for you. All right, go for it. Do you write a thank you note for a thank you note.
00:49:03
Speaker 1: No,
00:49:03
Speaker 1: you write a thank you note for a thank you gift, but you don't write a thank you note for a thank you note. So if you just wrote me a thank you note, like, hey, Liz, it was great to come into Burlington and stay with you for the weekend and I had a great time. Boom, I do not write a thank you to you, but if you sent me a gift, hey lizzie, here's a, you know, candleholder. Thanks so much for the great time that we had. However you,
00:49:26
Speaker 1: however you structure, I think, you know, um, it'll, it'll, it'll mean that I should let you know that this gift arrived and I received it. But the thank you note, you don't have to acknowledge that with,
00:49:38
Speaker 2: it's got to end somewhere.
00:49:39
Speaker 1: It's gotta end somewhere,
00:49:42
Speaker 2: but
00:49:42
Speaker 1: we're not quite done yet
00:49:43
Speaker 1: Because Dan has a different way of writing a thank you note. That's also a really great simple three sentence
00:49:48
Speaker 2: structure I do. And um, when I teach thank you notes to business seminar folks, I give it to them as a little five point bullet list and things just not to forget and we assume them because we're mostly going to put them on there without even thinking about
00:50:01
Speaker 1: Them in 2nd grade.
00:50:02
Speaker 2: You're going to put a date on a thank you note. It's a really nice thing to do to put a date on a thank you know, it's going to help someone else remember what it was for and they're going to people like me that saved every thank you note they've ever got and have a drawer at this stage. We have to stand on to put the next thank you note in
00:50:15
Speaker 2: um, second thing. You're gonna use a salutation, you're gonna open with dear. So and so, and whether it's an email or a handwritten note, um just open with a salutation dear. And then the person's name comma Space Space starting on its own line. I like to start with a thank you. I'd like to start with thanking them for the thing that you're thanking them for makes it simple. You don't even need to think about it. Just thank them for the thing. You're thanking them for
00:50:35
Speaker 2: second sentence. I'd like to say, that's the one original thought you're responsible for mentioned something specific about the evening about the present, about the experience you had visiting them,
00:50:45
Speaker 2: do something that's going to personalize that note for business folks. We sometimes say sentence three might be about a follow up action if that's appropriate. I look forward to talking to you more about project X. Whatever it might be just some kind of not necessary. You can go straight to the concluding sentence sentence three where you thank him again, thank you so much. I really appreciated it.
00:51:05
Speaker 2: You're going to finish with a closing, the most formal closing. That's never going to let you down no matter what kind of correspondence your writing is sincerely
00:51:12
Speaker 2: comma followed by your name. Some other nice ways to end the letter regards best regards all the best. But really for a thank you note, you're going to keep it simple. You're gonna stick with that sincerely closing sincerely. You sign your name, you're off
00:51:27
Speaker 2: to the races.
00:51:29
Speaker 2: Um, I hope that helps. That's a very simple thank you. Note structure and a few of our thoughts on thank you notes in general, which is one of the hot etiquette topics
00:51:38
Speaker 1: and I really am going to laugh if everyone writes in about thank you. Note questions next week.
00:51:45
Speaker 1: You hear that? She says you're not as rude as you used to be. What do you know?
00:52:01
Speaker 1: Each week we like to end our show on an etiquette salute and this week's um nomination I thought was really sweet, especially since we are in the midst of our train the trainer program. I thought this one was very appropriate.
00:52:18
Speaker 1: Hi Lizzie and Dan, thanks so much for your podcast. It's a fun and interesting way to learn more about a topic that isn't always discussed. It's been useful to have good examples when I talk to my kids about etiquette and doing what's right as for the salute. My friend? S is in charge of a weeknight youth group at our church for girls 8-11
00:52:37
Speaker 1: and she manages to create fun activities for them each week. One of their favorite activities every year is etiquette night.
00:52:44
Speaker 1: On that night the girls are invited to dress up, fancy wedding guest attire is suggested and bring their friends. It draws a big crowd. First they gather together and have a little quiz on proper etiquette. I was impressed to see that the girls knew all the answers from everyday to somewhat obscure.
00:53:01
Speaker 1: Next they have a tea party with beautiful china cups and dishes herbal tea and bite sized treats.
00:53:06
Speaker 1: They passed the snacks properly and have polite conversations and act like proper young ladies. It's very sweet, anything that gets young kids interested in etiquette is a good thing and I'm very impressed with all s has done over the past three years to make this annual activity something the girls look forward to every time it comes up.
00:53:24
Speaker 1: Thanks again for the podcast Rachel
00:53:28
Speaker 1: isn't that sweet,
00:53:30
Speaker 2: I just
00:53:30
Speaker 1: love the fact that the kids get so into it, just like we used to always have the Edmonds school, the kids would come and they do a little etiquette session with us and then they go back and they actually have a tea that day and it's funny because we don't think of etiquette being associated with like
00:53:45
Speaker 1: tea time. You know, we're much more ingrained in sort of this, this more
00:53:49
Speaker 1: like um every day or complicated relationship aspects of etiquette and there's this wonderful aspect of tea that is so connected to etiquette for so many people.
00:53:59
Speaker 2: It reminds me of the start of the show. Even big kids like to set a table. Exactly, have a little fancy tea time every once in a while. It's
00:54:07
Speaker 1: fun. It's really fun.
00:54:09
Speaker 2: So thank you Rachel, thank you for sharing that with us and we hope you keep those etiquette salutes coming because we so enjoy them. It really has turned into one of my favorite parts of the show. So
00:54:17
Speaker 1: keep it.
00:54:18
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
00:54:19
Speaker 1: Social courtesy
00:54:21
Speaker 2: does pay, doesn't
00:54:22
Speaker 1: it? Thanks.
00:54:32
Speaker 1: Well that's our show for today as always, thank you for listening and spending some of your day with us. We hope that you have a wonderful rest of your week. And don't forget there's no show without you. So send us your questions. Your etiquette salutes and your suggestions to awesome etiquette at the Emily Post dot com if you like what you hear. Please don't be shy tweet it facebook post it.
00:54:52
Speaker 1: And of course you can subscribe on Itunes. In fact
00:54:55
Speaker 1: that's probably the best thing you could do for us and leave us a review on facebook where the Emily Post Institute and on twitter, I am at lizzie a post. That's lizzie with an I. E.
00:55:06
Speaker 2: And I'm at daniel underscore Post
00:55:08
Speaker 1: or you can visit us at Emily Post dot com.
00:55:11
Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed and performed by bob Wagner, and her show is edited by the Wonderful Hans.
