Episode 342 - Virtual Parties
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on mail mishaps, making safety suggestions to other parents, sharing success on social media, and introducing etiquette to your peers. For Awesome Etiquette sustaining members your question is about posting your covid-19 vaccine photos online. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and postscript on virtual parties.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social. Could you see that's old fashioned
Speaker 1: Watch how busy post and then post to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today's show, we take your questions on male mishaps, making safety suggestions to other parents,
Speaker 1: sharing success on social media and introducing etiquette to your peers for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about posting your covid 19 vaccine status online, plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a post script on virtual parties held well, all that coming up.
Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm Lizzie Post and I'm Dan Post sending Hey, how's it going? It's good, It's good. I'm looking forward to kind of a quiet weekend because last weekend I threw a party,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a real party. It was a virtual party.
Speaker 1: I threw a virtual baby shower for one of my nearest and dearest Jamie Madore, and it was really fun. I got to be in charge of the family shower. So when Jamie and I had first talked about a baby shower,
Speaker 1: she looked at kind of the amount of people she wanted to get together with. And it was that kind of like, 40 person crowd and you're like, Boy, that's too much for a
Speaker 1: for a virtual shower and it's definitely too much for a pandemic in person shower. And so we came up with the idea to divide the groups into friends and family, and I offered to host the family virtual shower. I got to say, this was my first time actually hosting a virtual shower like this or a virtual party like this even.
Speaker 1: And it went well. I tested our advice. It worked. I was. I wasn't sure how it was going to work. I feel like there are things that could have been better about like the RSVPs. I wish I had kept that on a spreadsheet next to their names and email addresses, because I ended up at the end of the day like
Speaker 1: not taking the time to go through all the RSVPs and cull out the nose and instead just re sent the invitation the day of to everybody like, you know, in that moment. And I said, If I you know, if I'm sending this to you and you've already said declined, know that you'll be there in spirit. But you know, you have covered your bases, tried to cover my base and apologize for the redundancy I was creating for people.
Speaker 1: There were a couple of different things to coordinate. One was photographs for. Who's that, baby? Because it's a family shower. They all we're going to have fun guessing all their relatives baby pictures. And then there were Jamie and her husband, Jim. We're also doing this thing where people wrote blessings or notes or wishes for the baby, and
Speaker 1: then they wrote them on these little flags that will hang in the baby's nursery.
Speaker 1: And she felt that because she was so far away from most of her family and Jim's family that it was a really nice way to have everybody kind of. They're saying what they would say if they were dropping by visits and having that kind of surround the baby's main space. So
Speaker 1: it was so there were But they were That meant you were coordinating getting the blessings and you were coordinating getting the photographs. And it was really fun watching stuff coming from people. I did make sure to do a call out and say, You know, you can you can send send this again or, you know, send it if you haven't.
Speaker 1: But people were very responsive. A lot of people did R s v p and say yes, I'm coming. No, I'm not coming. Golf claps. Yeah, yeah, you know, And then And And some people didn't in that
Speaker 1: that I felt was really okay because I wasn't dealing with headcounts in terms of making things perfect for food or space or things like that. It was It was really not a big deal. If people didn't r s v p, I felt like but everybody got on. They logged on really well the day of
Speaker 1: we were able to screen, share and do the baby game.
Speaker 1: That was really fun. And it was really sweet reading all the blessings. They also read the ones from the friends gathering too. So That was really cool. And I was very proud of this for our advice. I'm just going to say it, pat ourselves on the back. The opening of gifts
Speaker 1: Jamie was like, Oh, I don't know about that And I was like, I know, but it is really fun and you'll get into it and they did get into it
Speaker 1: and it was really fun to see them get excited about what they opened. The people who had sent it were really engaged and excited to see it. It was like it worked and doing it for only 20 people worked like as opposed to 40. It really worked. So off the wall questions for you. As I hear you talk about coordinating, organizing, virtual or digital contributions, I'm thinking about the photos and then also physically. So did you receive the flags? Were you the one who actually, I didn't get the flags? No. Jamie and Jim had the flags, and what I did was I created a shared spreadsheet,
Speaker 1: that it had the name of the person who sent the and what they wrote, and they entered that Yeah, and then they hand wrote it on the flags Yeah. So this got me thinking, What do you think? More work. A virtual shower, hosting job or
Speaker 1: in person shower. I do think and in person hosting shower is more. This had an element of like, You gotta pay attention. You got to remember it's all happening because you're not hosting a physical party. But it was
Speaker 1: It was funny thinking of things like, Oh, my face should look nice And I want to I know it's not a dress up shower, but I want to be showered and wearing something decent, you know, for the day
Speaker 1: and those kind of elements felt real and almost like you had to be like, Oh, wait, that's right. You know, you're about to have a party like I put a banner up behind me and realized I had written the letters back or I should have written the letters backwards. And I didn't. I was able funny enough to just flip the thing around, and it worked. But
Speaker 1: but doing things like decorating the space, I really appreciated the guests who decorated their space. That was cool. If they didn't, it didn't matter, but it was really fun
Speaker 1: to have the guests decorate the space. Um, the guests also participated. Really? Well, um, people who had a lot of background noise going on would mute themselves until they wanted to speak up. People also did a good job of kind of
Speaker 1: allowing each other to a little bit. Talk over each other, like in a good way. Like it made it sound like the dinner table. Not like a meeting. You know what I mean? It wasn't, like, speak. Pause, speak.
Speaker 1: Pause. It was a real It really felt like a party. You could hear a couple little side conversations happen at times, and
Speaker 1: it just it felt like a party. I was I was happy about that part for sure.
Speaker 1: Problem. So, Dan, I could I could talk about this, like, all day. You have to stop me at some point. Because it was It wasn't really. I was curious how it went. And you've been, um, no, working on it for a little bit. And
Speaker 1: it's nice to hear that. It all went well. Thank you. It did. I had a I had a really good time. So that was cool, too. And importantly, it sounds like the guests of honor. The happy couple also really had a great time and maybe even a surprisingly great time. You were a surprisingly great host. Well, I've I'll stutter and let you say that you could take it. Thank you. There we go.
Speaker 1: No, it was It was a good time. I'm real happy for my friend. And I'm very excited to meet Little Baby mature when he or she or they come along. Well, congratulations, Jamie, and congratulations, Lizzie Post. Well done.
Speaker 1: We have a show to do. We do. Let's get to some questions. Let's do it. Hey, just a quick moment to let you know that are Greeting Card Collaborator is a Salazar has put together spring sets, including the Emily Post Garden collection line, and we have to say they are perfect for the season
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Speaker 1: make staying connected this spring. Easy. Check them out at esa Salazar dot com or by visiting Emily post dot com today. Again, that's esa Salazar dot com or by visiting Emily post dot com.
Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions you can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463
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Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 1: mm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Our first question this week is about a male mishap. Hi, Lizzie. Hi, Daniel. Twice in recent months, I've had friends asked me for my address so they could send me greeting cards. I assume
Speaker 1: one in December, intending to send a New Year's card and one in February for a Valentine's card. It's now late March, and I've received nothing from either of them. On the one hand, I want them to know that I've received nothing if they did indeed send me things. But on the other hand, if they didn't actually send anything, I don't want to highlight the fact that they intended to do something, but didn't.
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear you to chat about this conundrum and decide what to do here. Thank you both. So much for your delightful contributions to our social landscape. Katie. She her? Katie, Thank you so much for the question. I love how you posed it. Clearly, as I laugh out loud,
Speaker 1: Dan, this card's occupy a really kind of funny space, don't they? Because
Speaker 1: technically, like, you don't have to let someone know you received a card. And yet
Speaker 1: I know I both usually want to let someone know I've received the card and I appreciate it when someone lets me know they got the birthday card or the not necessarily like a thank you note, But like a like a holiday card or something like holidays. Though I could go often, you're gonna have to stop me before I'm telling you today is a ramble Lee day.
Speaker 1: It's all right. You're kind of starting all of the different thoughts that I've had about the same question. So I'm kind of curious where you land because you could kind of land a few different places. And I appreciated Katie asking. I'd love to hear what you each do, because I agree. This is kind of that liminal
Speaker 1: space where? I don't think there's necessarily a correct etiquette answer in terms of the rules. Yeah, Yeah. I can tell you from current experience, I'm in the middle of one of these. I know that someone that we know through work, who I connected with this fall, definitely was interested in sending a card my way has twice mentioned it. And in the six months that have happened since all the guards never showed up,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's because I think the first time I knew it was because she's just forgotten hadn't gotten to it the second time. I don't know if it was ever sent or not sent, but the funny thing is that I, too, had intended on sending this, you know, her card as well, and have not yet. So we're kind of both doing it to each other. If that offers any perspective and the critical question right now,
Speaker 1: did you say anything? No. Oh, yeah. Sorry. No. So the point. No, I didn't say anything. I haven't said anything. We've talked multiple times since then, and during a couple of those times she's brought up that she's asked for my address or wanted it again because you can't find it in like the scroll or maybe has deleted the messages and lost it. And so
Speaker 1: it's come up. There's a real intent there on her part, for sure.
Speaker 1: And I personally just don't want to ask about it like my thought wouldn't do it either. Yeah, I really don't think I would. Okay, so we are on the same page on this one. My thought Dan is the and Katie is that the like.
Speaker 1: It'll be a happy surprise if it does show up. Yeah, you know what I mean? And if it doesn't,
Speaker 1: it's a card, and I think of it as Lost in the mail really can be a thing that happens even though I think very highly of our our mail system in a lot of ways. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm going to even put lost in the mail in quotations because there are so many ways that it may have been lost in the mail. We all have the best of intentions, and
Speaker 1: I love the specificity in this question about not wanting to necessarily point out if someone had really good intentions, and they just haven't quite followed through actualized or followed through on them yet.
Speaker 1: And, um, I think that is the key etiquette point about sort of pointing out where someone's fallen short, even if it's not short of a social standard, even if it's short of their own aspirations. Um, that's the one etiquette thing I was keying on when I read the question. But then, as I heard you talk about it, there was something else that really jumped out at me, and that was the
Speaker 1: the thinking about what, exactly is being sent, And would you respond to it anyway? And when when we get those, I don't want to call them generic. But the holiday cards that it's the same card that gets repeated and goes to multiple people.
Speaker 1: We don't respond to that. We don't even I don't think I even necessarily mention it. When I talk to that person, I might I might say, Oh, we got your card so funny, so great to see so and so you're older or whatever.
Speaker 1: Um, but it's not something I am thinking to mention necessarily. So I wouldn't mention its absence is, I guess, the way I think that I started to
Speaker 1: key. Honest. I heard you talk about it.
Speaker 1: But the funny thing is is that I have called people to thank them for cards like our Aunt Nancy sent me, Uh, Valentine's Day card the other year, and it was adorable. It had her grandson. My cousin once removed
Speaker 1: Alex on it on a horse, and it was just It was a really great. It was a great photo. It really warmed my heart. I don't think I received a Valentine's Day card in, like years,
Speaker 1: and it was really, really it was way, is it? My mom probably sent me one, but like, but it was really sweet, and I felt so inspired to call her, and I left her a message and just said, like, Oh, my gosh, this was the nicest thing. Thank you so much. Like, really warm my day. Like that kind of a thing
Speaker 1: and like that didn't elicit like a response from her at all. It just simply was my way of expressing my gratitude for it.
Speaker 1: But like you said, there's plenty of cards that we receive that. We don't say, Oh, I got your note or I got your thank you note or I got your
Speaker 1: congratulations card or something like that. They're not all requiring of a reply.
Speaker 1: And as I'm imagining the specifics, I'm thinking If and Nancy had called you over the holidays and said, Hey, I'm gathering people's addresses, did it and then you hadn't seen that card in the next couple of months.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you probably wouldn't have called Nancy and said, Hey, I wanted to make sure I gave you the right address. Yeah, no, not at all. Not at all, not at all. And and that's a little bit, you know, we talk about hosts, guests dance, give a receiver dance and it's It is a little bit where it becomes a part of a
Speaker 1: giver. If they're worried something hasn't been received to, the onus is on them to track it down.
Speaker 1: Um, and I think that that's that's kind of where that responsibility lays. If there's a question mark someone wants to answer, and so you Katie as the receiver in this situation,
Speaker 1: I'm still coming down in the camp, and I think Dana's two of of Don't don't worry about tracking it down. Or, like you said, bringing up someone's good intention,
Speaker 1: Um, that they haven't yet followed through on. So Lizzie Post, can I add a sneaky coda to this answer? My interest is piqued right now. If you wanted to be sure, but you didn't want to ask, you could send them something that had a return address on it.
Speaker 1: So you send them something to prompt them, sending you the thing they haven't sent yet.
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I mean, it's like late March doing it like
Speaker 1: No, there will be other holidays. There will be other family events. There you go.
Speaker 1: There you go. Turn it on them and send a card to them saying Hi. Happy spring. Katie, Thank you so much for this question. Thank you for giving us a chance to both muse on how we would handle a similar situation
Speaker 1: in good weather and in bad weather. The mailman brings us our mail.
Speaker 1: He always tries to be on time. The mailman is friendly and helpful. Almost everybody likes him for almost everybody likes to get mail.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Safety Sample Scripts. and it's a voicemail from Claire.
Speaker 2: Hello. My name is Claire, And I have a question about, um, kind of telling someone that
Speaker 2: what they're doing with the child isn't necessarily safe. So, for example, my friend had the car seat of her car and
Speaker 1: fell directly for her newborn
Speaker 2: baby. And I kind of assumed that there was like, Hey, this is installed correctly. Like I can fix it real quick. You don't need to you and she kind of took offense to that and got a little mad at me. And, um, kind of that I was coming up route, which was not my intention at all,
Speaker 2: because in my mind, I'm kind of like Okay, well,
Speaker 2: the safety of your child is more important than hurt feelings. I was just trying to help. So kind of in the
Speaker 1: future, maybe some sample
Speaker 2: scripts on how to bring up something that might not be quite right when it involves the safety of your child like something as important as a car seat,
Speaker 2: because I think in my head I'm coming off a lot nicer than I might actually be. Um, just
Speaker 1: some sample starts I can
Speaker 2: use in future situations like that or if it's something I should even bring up. Um, thank you so much. I love the show fight.
Speaker 1: Hi, Claire. Thank you so much for your question. And thank you so much for leaving us a voicemail. It is so much fun to hear your voices when we're answering these questions.
Speaker 1: Lizzie Post. What do you think? Safety and etiquette. I know and talk about where these two meet, How you draw the lines. And, um, it's important. Well, and I think here we might also have some sort of personality and style, right? Because I and I love. We really need to give clear some credit here,
Speaker 1: She said, I feel like I might be coming across like I might think I'm nicer than I'm actually coming across. And that's such a It's a great self check. I have to say, from the sound of your voice mail, you sound like your voice sounds really nice and happy and helpful.
Speaker 1: So I think there's probably a combination of things going on here that got a bad reaction. But
Speaker 1: we're talking about safety, and I think when we talk about etiquette were we always say that safety comes before etiquette,
Speaker 1: and at the same time I think that the safety measure can be delivered in a way that's really soft. And we're going to add to that.
Speaker 1: I also think that sometimes no matter how you deliver something like that, the other party may just be prone or in a headspace where they take offense to it. Or they feel like it's a knock on on their ability to protect their child, especially when talking about parents and Children.
Speaker 1: Dan, you probably I mean, I don't think you've been in this particular situation, but have you literally have you? Have you really have you? Really? Okay, tell me you had to get over my own emotional hurdles to allow someone to show me how to install a car seat. Correct? Oh, do tell please. It was arias birth, and we were at a different hospital than initials. Birth. And there was a woman there who was known as the car seat expert.
Speaker 1: She was, like, famous for people. Talked about her as that. And you couldn't leave you had you had to take advantage of her being around at some point
Speaker 1: and to get her to look at your car seats before you left the birthing center. She was incredible. This was a very serious woman. And she set up my car seats like I've never seen before. They were so snug. And, um,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to take the time. I thought they were good enough. I thought I knew what I was doing. Child number two year old hat. Come on. You know, really, just it felt like so much, and they made such a big deal out of it. I know I'm going on, but that's what it felt like to me then.
Speaker 1: And she was so good. And she taught me a few things, like, Okay, this is where you put your foot. This is where you put your knee. This gives you the leverage. This gives you the right angle on the strap as you pull it. I am now the person that knows how to do it And, like other people in the family, are like, Hey, Dan, it's time to do the car seats. But it was hard for me, and I went into my experience with this person. Um, like pre resentful a little bit, just like she was kind of bossy with me. Um, so I do appreciate this moment in a very personal way, and it's so important. And, um, this person, actually she
Speaker 1: her approach with me to get over my emotional blocks was,
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I'm serious. I do this 1000 times. I'm just gonna push right through you. I wouldn't suggest that attack with someone else. I was thinking like you, Lizzie. Post that there is a real, um,
Speaker 1: important relationship between the etiquette and the safety. We say the safety supersedes, but to deliver that message in a way that let someone be safe might require that emotional intelligence and that good etiquette. And so you might say, Oh, I need to leave the etiquette behind to communicate this important safety message,
Speaker 1: And it might be the exact opposite. It might be that the etiquette is what
Speaker 1: makes it possible to deliver that message. In a way, someone can hear it. So it's it's it's both important. You don't let it get in the way, but that to the extent that it can help you deliver that message in a way that's more likely to be heard not to abandon it. So that was the very broad, conceptual and personal
Speaker 1: first past. Thought I had about this question,
Speaker 1: and I think I can see Claire approaching it the same way. And I keep on that same line you did. Um, I think I'm being nice, but I'm wondering how nice it's coming across, and that's that perfect dosage of.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's important for me to say this, and I'm thinking about how I do it, and I'm willing to say to myself, Am I doing it as well as I think I am? Or as I could etiquette gold star.
Speaker 1: And this can be so tough, right? Because, like we can, we we will set up some some actions to take for sure, but
Speaker 1: one thing to just keep in mind any time you head into a I'm going to help someone mode is that you just you do never know where they're at and that this might be the 10th time during the day that someone has shown them a better way to do something, and it's just grading on them at this point, or they're tired
Speaker 1: and We have to always remember
Speaker 1: that when we try to help, sometimes we just have to give space for someone to not receive it. Well, and that aside, Dan, what are the ways that we can
Speaker 1: sort of hedge our best bet on this and and go into it with the best possible? And then maybe afterwards, if if it doesn't go right, we can come up with a little sample apology script for how to move forward. I think that
Speaker 1: you can always make your intentions explicit. Don't assume that someone else will assume you're good intentions. Hey, there's something I noticed I'd like to offer to help. Like that is just a great way to start. Um,
Speaker 1: do the best you can to keep the focus on the thing itself. So I noticed your car seat is set up like this.
Speaker 1: When I was taught how to set up a car seat, they showed me some really cool little tricks to get it really snug.
Speaker 1: Could I show you what those are?
Speaker 1: Can I make one adjustment to that? If you say I noticed the car seat instead of your car seat, that might help de escalate a little bit sometimes. Sometimes you need the you like at the end of the example. Um, you know, could I could I show you or could I make the adjustment?
Speaker 1: But sometimes pulling it out can help not make it feel like there's any kind of finger pointing or or really, um,
Speaker 1: personal attachment to the attack. Well, it's not an attack, but make it feel like that.
Speaker 1: Sorry, no. And this is why we call you the master of sample scripts. Keep the focus on the task, the thing itself, the information that you're trying to impart. And there are ways to
Speaker 1: bring that up that are related to you and not the other person's effort. I learned a really cool trick. I got to tell you. The story about this lady showed me at a set of car seat, and she was an experience that I think about to this day. If there's a way that you can lighten the mood, the tone of the discussion also, it's something that's serious. But you're not raising it as a serious problem that they have, or that they've created a serious mistake that they've made a problem. They've created exactly
Speaker 1: and as you say, was he? There's no guarantee it's going to be received well, but
Speaker 1: depersonalizing it, really keeping it specific and about the thing itself. Prepping someone just a little bit by telling them your good intentions and asking them if it's a good time to offer some help are all going to give you a better shot at having that conversation land well.
Speaker 1: And there's definitely also a difference between doing something that's in an immediate and very clear danger and pointing that out and and really being forceful about making it clear. And the difference between
Speaker 1: the straps aren't quite as perfectly tight as they could be. But everything's buckled inappropriately. It's in the right direction, you know what I mean? It's like
Speaker 1: I could see I could see there being a big difference between the car seat isn't facing the right way or it's not even attached to I don't know how car seats works to attach the base or whatever it is in the car like that, versus kind of some of the Remember you walked into your car seat
Speaker 1: education going. I got this. I know this. My Garcia has been installed correctly for for three years now. And so I do think just, you know, also knowing when when that step of safety is a real, real serious thing and when it's just a helpful suggestion. It's a good point, Lizzie. And not everyone is qualified to make all of those judgments, but to the best of your ability.
Speaker 1: Obviously, the degree and seriousness of the safety issue affects the degree to which are going to ignore
Speaker 1: social conventions and address the problem.
Speaker 1: Dan. What, given that Claire had the moment where she thought she was doing a good job, Thought she had done it an easy way here. It's a quick fix. I can help you. And it still came off to the person who received it as as rude and and frustrating in that moment. Give us a sample script for just a quick apology. You know that you could make when you have that that quick moment where you didn't think you were being brewed, but someone else feels like you were, and they call you out on it. I'm so sorry. I'm getting the sensor. I realize I've overstepped my bounds here. I apologize. I really that wasn't my intent. Yeah, I think it's It's the apology with the quick. It wasn't my intention to make you feel that way. I think it's a good, good, clean, easy way to go.
Speaker 1: Claire. While we're sorry that this is how the interaction went this time, we hope that future offers for help are well received.
Speaker 1: How do you go about being done?
Speaker 1: What do you do?
Speaker 1: Every time I try, I only make things worse. Is there some particular method of being thoughtful that works every
Speaker 2: time?
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker 1: Our next question is about sharing success on social media.
Speaker 1: Dear Lizzie and Daniel. As a longtime listener of your podcast, I'm hoping you can settle a business etiquette question that's been dividing me and so many other students. This year,
Speaker 1: I'm a first year law student, and typically, by late winter students begin receiving job offers. These jobs are extremely competitive, and oftentimes very limited numbers of them are available even more so this year because of covid.
Speaker 1: While we all feel happy for our peers in the last few years, it's become increasingly common for people to make posts on LinkedIn, announcing their jobs and doing a lot of public self congratulating
Speaker 1: This was never a thing in the past but now seems to be becoming a new standard practice.
Speaker 1: The problem is, a lot of people at this time have no job prospects and no idea what they're doing for their summer. I've seen and heard multiple friends crying in the past few weeks. The celebratory posts make them feel so horribly about their inability to secure a position thus far.
Speaker 1: Help us settle the issue. Do you think these public announcements of success are tacky and a bit rude, or should people be allowed to celebrate their success as they see fit?
Speaker 1: And is there a better time and way to make these posts so that people can still celebrate themselves? Or should the practice be nipped in the bud?
Speaker 1: Thanks in advance. And I really hope I get to hear your thoughts warm regards. Anonymous
Speaker 1: Anonymous. This is a great question, and and we see almost identical versions of it with having Children
Speaker 1: and with getting married or buying homes.
Speaker 1: And, like, as you mentioned getting jobs, these can all be moments that are really celebratory for the people experiencing them
Speaker 1: and sharing them super publicly. can have an impact on people who aren't feeling secure in these areas of their life.
Speaker 1: While I think it's really hard, Um, and I want to be really sensitive to the to the feeling of of when you are the person feeling that lack and you you feel the sort of negative side of a comparison happening at the same time, I think that
Speaker 1: the answer is yes, we do celebrate and I think we can find good ways of celebrating online that don't come off as too boastful. But I I put me in the camp. If I do think we should continue to celebrate our life achievements and
Speaker 1: for some, the job thing might be as important as a partner or a baby,
Speaker 1: Vice versa going other ways, you know, like it's it's I think it's important to celebrate the things that that we achieve and the things that we see as success in our lives. I think that's a good part of the society that we operate in. But I think we have to do it with tact.
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Lizzie Post. Okay, good. I was like, I hope I hope we're on the same party, or maybe the Internet has changed. But no, I don't think so. And I do think that the Internet presents a challenge in
Speaker 1: the how public it is. So things that we used to share comfortably with friends and family, the excitement of a new job, the excitement about, as you say, any of those big moments in life where
Speaker 1: something happens that we really wanted to happen or that we've worked really hard for. Or
Speaker 1: that's just awesome. And we want to share with people
Speaker 1: and because the Internet, the place where we are maybe going to be doing that these days is potentially such a public space
Speaker 1: allows for the crossing over of that line from the natural and
Speaker 1: not just appropriate but important
Speaker 1: celebration into something that
Speaker 1: becomes bad. I get boasting, becomes self congratulatory. I got the best I am the best, not things that are going to sound good or come off well.
Speaker 1: Ha ha ha. I, when you lose, is very different than ha ha ha. I made it on the state champion. I got the gold. It's it's it's really different. I I really keyed on some particular language in the question. What anonymous s do you think that these public announcements of success are tacky and a bit route? Should people be allowed to celebrate their successes as they see fit?
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 1: that's where I say no. Yeah, I don't think you can celebrate your successes, however you see fit. It does matter how it comes across, and it matters how it comes across to other people. And if you're talking about a law school situation where everybody is competing for the same internships or jobs or positions, you could cross that line. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: I think it's entirely appropriate to say, Yea, I got it or to list the position that you just got. It's a position that you just got on your LinkedIn profile where it should be listed. That's an absolute yeah, that's when I do think absolutely,
Speaker 1: and the degree that it then goes on into a as they see fit, bad judgment of self congratulation. I'm so awesome. I'm going to do a dance on the quad or something. I think that's where you say, no, it's not. Just do what you like, but it is okay and
Speaker 1: that tact is maybe hard to find in this public space. But I think, like you say, we can assume the adult behavior of our peers and that they're going to be able to deal with the disappointment of not getting it and understanding that someone had to get it.
Speaker 1: And that is that It's up to everyone who competes in these environments to be able to reconcile with that. I've had to two thoughts as you've been talking, and one was that remember to if you are seeing those messages of good news and it is bumming you out or you can't get out of the comparative headspace, take a break from social media from looking or, you know, hide your law school friends for a little bit so that you're just not bombarded with it. You know that there are ways that you can personally control the interaction of what you see in here. So the other point was that
Speaker 1: it can, and I don't want to say this as a suggestion that looking at the misfortune of others can pump you up.
Speaker 1: But your first year law student who got in your there you you made it to the school. That's that's a good place to be. And it is a really, really competitive market right now that you're dealing with and sometimes just finding that way to to flip the mental switch to the what I have versus what I'm not having
Speaker 1: can be enough to help you handle and find that
Speaker 1: celebratory space to to cheer those on who are doing well and that that can be a very hard thing. It's super gracious, but it's a really sometimes hard thing to do. But when you can use it in that way to to get you to that better headspace, it's worth doing. So
Speaker 1: thank you so much for the question. It certainly given us a lot to think about and good luck with that first semester as an L two.
Speaker 1: It all boils down to this George.
Speaker 1: We're going to make the most out of the one and only life we're ever going to have on this Earth.
Speaker 1: We can only do it by really joining the human race.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled An Etiquette Girl in An Uncaring World. Dear Lizzie and Dan. I'm a longtime listener, and I'm also a major enthusiast of etiquette,
Speaker 1: but Unfortunately, my generation seems to disregard any knowledge of manners and politeness. I have often times been laughed at for sending a thank you card or even using polite mannerisms in public.
Speaker 1: I understand that I'm old fashioned in a way, but I was hoping to get some pointers to help introduce or educate other teens in proper manners or even just social courtesy.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for producing your show, and I look forward to your response sincerely, Colleen.
Speaker 1: Oh, Colleen, I want I want you to get better responses to those notes. No one should laugh at you for them well, and I also want to thank. Colleagues were said to guess this question. There is something I want to say almost at the end of every sentence that I read here.
Speaker 1: It's a real theme on our show. One of the biggest themes on this show that
Speaker 1: etiquette is a really, really powerful tool when you're using it for self assessment, self improvement, Um, just for your own enjoyment, and it is much less useful when you're using it to try to figure out other people or correct or improve other people and the big thing that I want to say to Colleen is that
Speaker 1: I would offer the same advice in terms of how etiquette works for you and how you enjoy it that,
Speaker 1: um, it really is something that's for you. And I want to encourage you to keep having fun with it. Keep sending those thank you notes, enjoying it and engaging it in ways that make you feel good and make sense to you. Um, the world will catch up with you. Your peers will catch up with you The, um long term rewards and opportunities that come from investing in relationships, caring for other people, taking the focus outside yourself. They are all out there and
Speaker 1: whatever kind of feedback you're getting immediately from teen peers. I'm just so encouraged just to hear the tone in nature of this question. I just want to just
Speaker 1: from as virtually as far away as I can just buck you up and encourage you to keep going. And it's just such a treat to hear about you out there and reaching out to us. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I know I'm such a cheese ball. I can't help it. Colleen, you're my hero. I gotta tell you, Colleen, there's dance Dancer.
Speaker 1: That was sweet because that was that was good. I want to encourage you keep doing all the things that you're doing. Do them when they feel right to you. Do it because it feels good, because it's it's how you want to behave. Um, Dan's right. Your peers will catch up to you eventually. Some Some won't, and they might not remain your friends,
Speaker 1: but you'll find your people. My mom has this saying that all the good people find each other eventually,
Speaker 1: and it's true over time when you're really starting to choose your own groups, you do find all the all the people who love and value not just the exact same things you do, but
Speaker 1: at least enough of the same common behaviors and interactions that this becomes your group. You know, this becomes the people that you associate with because you enjoy the way they behave. I also really want to encourage you to keep sending it, because I think you'll be really proud of your teenage self and of your your preteen self who behave this way and
Speaker 1: and did this and not like Oh, look at me, I was so good.
Speaker 1: But I can remember distinctly having to apologize as a 12 year old for a food fight that we got into at a birthday party. And I wrote my apology letter to the mom of the household and
Speaker 1: and sent it, and she called my mom and said that was some apology letter, and that was something that really taught me. The lesson of
Speaker 1: it was an important thing that I did, and I did the right thing because it made the other person feel better. And I was. I'm always proud of that little girl. When I look back in my memory on that moment, I hope you're really proud of yourself when you're all grown up and you're looking back on who you were and how you chose to behave, that it was really true to your nature.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's my rant. Well, before we close out,
Speaker 1: I have to mention the idea that you would be old fashioned in a way for sending a thank you note or even having polite mannerisms.
Speaker 1: The way that those things become not old fashioned is for young people to do them and to keep doing your very existence. Your presence in this world is what makes this material new and fresh and relevant. And there is nothing that you write in your hand that is old fashioned.
Speaker 1: It is of the moment it is of today, and we thank you for it.
Speaker 1: Oh, Colleen, thank you for giving us such a great question to end on,
Speaker 1: and we hope our answer helps.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Could leave us a voicemail or text at 80285 a kind that's 8028585463
Speaker 1: You can also reach us on social media on Twitter. We are at Emily Post install on Instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on Facebook. We are awesome etiquette.
Speaker 1: Just use the hashtag gossip etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah.
Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content. Plus, you'll feel great knowing that you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air.
Speaker 1: And to those of you who are already sustaining members, thank you so much for your support.
Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. And today we're hearing first from Antonio on bringing stinky food to work for lunch.
Speaker 1: Dear E. There are a lot of air purifiers on the market that remove odors quickly. I highly recommend one made by a company called Cat Mouse. Yes, it's for litter boxes, but because of that, it's pretty small, pretty quiet and makes the smell go away quickly.
Speaker 1: Put it on top of the microwave, and anytime it gets a bit funky, just turn it on.
Speaker 1: Antonio, I have to say I really love like solution products that people recommend. Brilliant. I wait a second. It's for litter boxes. I could probably use that in my house like that. Sounds like the most useful thing you heard all day on awesome etiquette. Good. Antonio,
Speaker 1: thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's time for our post script segment, where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette, and today we're going to lean on Lizzie posts, experience hosting a virtual baby shower and talk about hosting virtual parties
Speaker 1: who proposed it went so well, Tell us more. How did you do it? What should we do? We'll know if there are definitely things I'd do differently next time. But virtual parties, they aren't difficult to coordinate, but there is coordination that's involved beyond just getting the link for the party out to everybody.
Speaker 1: Definitely one of the things that gave us hang ups at our party,
Speaker 1: um, is our first piece of advice, which is get the right emails or phone numbers for your guests. However, it is that you're sending that invitation or delivering that link to the virtual party. You really want to make sure that you've got it all right. Not the link, but the contact we had two people who didn't get the invitation because
Speaker 1: one, the address was sent to me incorrectly and the other I had copied it incorrectly,
Speaker 1: which you think for copy paste would not happen. But it had looked wrong. I made the adjustment. There was a missing at symbol, and I missed it. Um and so we had to people who we had to send invitations to later on because they hadn't gotten there the first round. And because it was
Speaker 1: lightly, more casual, type of party, a virtual party.
Speaker 1: It took us a little while to realize that these two people had an r S v p because they hadn't received anything. Not because, you know, they just weren't going to R S v p. So I do think that get the email right at the phone number. Right.
Speaker 1: However you're sending it, get it right, and then it is okay to follow up. If you haven't heard from anybody
Speaker 1: in about a week, I would just double check that that they were all received And that you have the right address is that sort of thing. Okay, but what about the invitation itself? So the invitation you also want to make very clear. It should be very obvious that this is a virtual party wherever it is that you are giving people the link to the party. It should be big, bold letters. Here's the link to access the party
Speaker 1: in the baby shower case. Here's the link for the registry, you know, like very, very clearly laid out. Very easy, easy to see and understand and then be prepared to follow up. Because sometimes even then, people say, Could you send me that link again, please? And that happens for the baby shower that I did. I actually
Speaker 1: did up in, like, canvas a little invitation, you know, like something. So it actually looks like a little invitation.
Speaker 1: I sent that in the email along with the two links and then a description about how this party was going to work. So it explained the games that we were going to play and how people could participate in them where gifts could be sent. That sort of thing is all really key info to put in there,
Speaker 1: and we also kind of just described the overall vibe of the party that this was going to be a casual family get together. You know that we were going to make it a lot of fun. And I'm glad we delivered. Um, but the invitation really spelling things out. I think even with that, I still had people reach out and say,
Speaker 1: You know, how does this really work? Is it going to be like a meeting where were muted until you let us talk? You know, people had really specific questions or sometimes suggestions about how to make it go well, that was another thing
Speaker 1: to be prepared for as a host is that people will probably give you their opinion on how this could go well, because they're worried about it, not going well, and that's unfortunate. I like it when people put, you know, faith in their hosts. But I I think we've all become zoom experts. At this point, it's tough not to share.
Speaker 1: I think that if you are collecting RSVPs, it is really helpful too, As we said earlier in the in the intro, to actually take note of them in a place where you can reference them easily, make a spreadsheet so that you know who's coming, who's not coming or list whatever works best for you.
Speaker 1: What that does it eliminates you re sending the invitation to someone who's already said that they don't want to come or can't come.
Speaker 1: Dan, how am I doing so far? It sounds good. It sounds like with a virtual party, there's a lot of work just getting it organized. It's not just getting the people in the space. It's somehow more complicated because you've got to get
Speaker 1: links to emails. And things like that is that it is. It has way more of the social secretary feel to it than the kind of like
Speaker 1: party planner feel to it. I feel like, but it's good and and you know it's it is this that makes a virtual shower go well with a party where people are physically coming. I feel like it's a little more of a thing that gets marked in their head, but sometimes all these extra communications, which we're about to list a couple more,
Speaker 1: they can really help people remember you're going to a party on Saturday afternoon. It's just going to be in your living room on your computer,
Speaker 1: which I even had trouble remembering. As the party hosted time throughout the weekend. Um, and we've got some advice for how to fight that feeling to Exactly exactly. You send a reminder a day or two before the party. So once you've gotten all your yes, is create a new group list. It is really good to use BCC for these because then you're not sharing email addresses across,
Speaker 1: um, people who you just don't know if they all know each other or not, but definitely resend the invitation. And I like to make it a little bit different so that people pay attention to it. I often won't include. Yeah, I didn't I don't think I included the actual invite when I sent the follow up. But
Speaker 1: just explaining again how the party is going to work. Feel free to sign on, you know, right at five. Or, you know, five minutes before, if you want to,
Speaker 1: um, I'll pop on and let everybody into the party, and then we'll have, like, I think, for ours I said things like, Here's the agenda. Jamie's gonna talk and tell you a little bit about her pregnancy, how it's going, and then we're gonna play the who's who. Family baby game and then we're going to read all the blessings and then they're going to open the presents. And then people can
Speaker 1: share good advice or say last things and then goodbye.
Speaker 1: And it really stuck to that which was great. People might have other kinds of parties, and you'll want to describe like this is a casual. You're just viewing the party that's happening in person and so feel free to come and go as you want. You can have your camera on, not have your camera on, like letting people kind of know
Speaker 1: the type of I think is also good in this 2nd, 2nd reminder.
Speaker 1: And again it goes out a day or two before the party
Speaker 1: and you include the link as well, because it's it's what it kind of bumps up. Yeah, you're, like, always including that link when you communicate at the top of the bone. Dan, what can people do as actual party hosts the day of to make this really great? So you've successfully
Speaker 1: organized people. They've showed up
Speaker 1: as a host. I'm thinking of sort of two different things. One, I'm thinking about just making an effort that's visible to other people, and that might be dressing yourself, dressing your space or dressing up your attitude. We always talk about dress the part, you know, put on your party clothes. If this would have been, uh, sort of an an afternoon affair, shower in the garden, maybe a garden dress or outfit, I'm whatever it would take to put on the costume to get into the character and the spirit. And you can think of your room, your background. As part of that, I know you put up a banner. I just know that
Speaker 1: that works party favors and decorations are part of the experience, and if you can bring that into that virtual space, people will notice it will make an impression. Oh, you just reminded me of such a good tip, which is, if you're really super coordinated host, you can do things like send out boxes to each of the people who are going to be signing on, so that there's like
Speaker 1: whether it's a sign or like you just said little party favors or something like you. You can make that a much more coordinated effort than I did. I pass the thing that has the letter like offscreen. And as it passes on to the next screen, the letter has changed. Or, you know, I mean, yes, no, you can. Really. Everyone has one letter of the banners so that altogether, yeah, or they all spelled the wrong words. No,
Speaker 1: there's there's lots of stuff you can do. I I also think it's good in this case to get yourself ready to lead the way and to be that host that guides everyone through the experience. So even though this wasn't my family, I knew a lot of the murder and and Holloway and black families. And so it was easy
Speaker 1: for me to say that, you know, and I reminded myself, You're the host. You're the one who's supposed to, you know, like lead it. So as the host jump up and say, You know, once you figure most people have gathered that you're going to get started and here's how you're going to start, and then maybe we even what the next thing you're going to move into afterwards is and then get it going. It might be for me. I asked Jamie. I said, So
Speaker 1: Jamie, tell us about how the pregnancy has gone so far. You know, you've been on the other side of the country and and we've all missed you. But let us know, how has it been going? And
Speaker 1: that got us into the mode. And we also did another question of having anyone who's been apparent to speak up and say like some of the best advice they got for those 1st, 1st early months of a newborn. And that kind of broke the ice that invited people to participate and get in.
Speaker 1: But I was the emcee man. I had to. I had to do it. There wasn't anybody else. Well, and I'm thinking about all of the traditional hosting duties that a host has in person and what those look like in the virtual space. So there's that guiding the party from activity to activity.
Speaker 1: There's the basics of making introductions, being sure that everybody there knows everybody like you say, announcing a start taking responsibility when things come up like any party. Oh, this happens. That happens, the dogs barking. The person over there has a fire alarm going off, and they're a muted. Whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you're the person. You're the boy person who gets to kind of jump in and make some decisions on the fly. As things come up and someone needs to do it, you're the host. It's your job.
Speaker 1: Similarly, you're there to keep things moving and to wrap it up at the end. Theoretically, ideally, you would have had some kind of plan to get people in and out in a reasonable way, and it's entirely appropriate and even responsible and important that
Speaker 1: you balance you. Let a natural and gregarious part of your discussion continue up to a point. And then you also figure out ways to alert people that were winding down and then wrapping things up. When that time comes, I like it exiting well, exiting Well, say goodnight, Gracie. Right, Good night.
Speaker 1: I would also say that throughout the party it's really good to be flexible. Um, I liked that our party allowed for some cross talk and and things like that. You heard us talk about that and drove going on. If that gets out of hand, it's also okay to take it into control. And even, you know, you can say, Oh, I think
Speaker 1: think we're you know this party is getting a bit wild, but you know, whatever, whatever kind of works, as Dan says, make a little joke or something, but you can regain that kind of control. But I think I would have felt more uncomfortable if I was hosting it and kind of being super disciplined about who was allowed to talk exactly when. I don't think that would have created such a party atmosphere for people.
Speaker 1: I also think it is important to be ready for some technical difficulties.
Speaker 1: We had a couple glitches where someone we were doing screen sharing. Some people hadn't sent in their photos yet, so they asked if they could have permission to share their screens. And then with that, somehow someone got. We got stuck on someone else's screen and it took us a while and they need to get back off, and she didn't know how she had done it. So
Speaker 1: be prepared for the technical and just take the time that it needs to solve it.
Speaker 1: Remember, you can always communicate offline if someone's having trouble getting on, and I also I was really quick anytime I saw someone enter that waiting room to let them in immediately to the party. I didn't want people just sitting there waiting and waiting in that space. I'm picturing a doorbell ringing
Speaker 1: and then bringing again a few minutes later and then bringing again a few minutes later, I just let him stand there for a minute. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. Host duties. Answer the door,
Speaker 1: Lizzie. Boast. You're you're so brave, Bone. Karaj, I I appreciate your willingness to do it. We We, um we hear from a lot of people on this show who are responsible for hosting showers. And
Speaker 1: it was fun for me to hear you take that on and to hear how it went.
Speaker 1: Well, good. Um, I hope these tips are helpful and useful for everyone else. I actually do really think that there's a lot of the virtual party aspect that's going to stick with us even once we can gather in person because I think it lets us gather with people who are far away, and that's that's really great. So
Speaker 1: more more to come on this one. I think it's a It's a trend that's going to stick.
Speaker 1: I do, too. Lizzie Post. I don't think the virtual party is going anywhere.
Speaker 1: Mhm
Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world. And that can come in so many forms. And today Bridget has given us a salute from Matt G about our show. Oh, Bridget, you sneaky one. Matt begins.
Speaker 1: This can't be the first email from a listener saying thank you for the content you are putting out with awesome etiquette. But I personally wanted to thank you so much for your effort on your podcast.
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Speaker 1: Once again, thank you for pouring your time and efforts into creating and offering awesome etiquette Thanks, Matt. Oh, Matt, thank you so much. And you hear us ask for people to share the show as much as possible. And I couldn't be more grateful for the effort. You're doing that to do that. So big salute. Right back to you.
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Speaker 1: Our show is edited by Chris Albertine an assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd. Thanks, Chris. Bridget.
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