Episode 350 - Old Friends

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social, could you see that's old fashioned,

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Speaker 2: watch how busy post and dan post Senate act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness. Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

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Speaker 1: On today's show we take your questions on giving gifts. When you've been uninvited,

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Speaker 1: introducing someone to another

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Speaker 2: group of friends,

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Speaker 1: correcting dated language and announcing your name

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Speaker 2: change for awesome etiquette sustaining members, we have a special treat this week and our question is about re acquainting with friends who took the pandemic less seriously than you did.

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Speaker 1: Plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute. And for our 350th episode we've got a post script with rico galliano and Brendan Francis noon formerly of the dinner party, download, this is our origin place.

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Speaker 2: We are so excited to talk to them again. All that. Coming up

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Speaker 1: for the 350th time, awesome etiquette is coming to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie Post

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Speaker 2: and I'm dan post sending,

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Speaker 1: are you feeling old? Are you feeling experienced? Are you

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Speaker 2: feeling wiser

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Speaker 1: happy? 350th episode? Because and a very

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Speaker 2: happy 350th to you

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Speaker 1: too? Because

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Speaker 2: do you remember the two questions that my father asks on important anniversaries and birthdays? Really?

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Speaker 1: I know one of them is just straight up, Do you feel older? Are you older? Are you feeling the change in number you're getting

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Speaker 2: exactly and usually as you're answering or as you're contemplating the answer, he follows up with a rapid fire second question,

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Speaker 2: Do you think you'll ever amount to

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Speaker 1: anything?

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Speaker 1: I think we've amounted to 350 podcast episodes and I don't know how many questions that is because we've had rapid fire questions shows we've had, sometimes it was like three questions, sometimes it was five questions,

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Speaker 1: but I think we have amounted to a lot of etiquette advice. I think

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Speaker 2: so too. I

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Speaker 1: it's good for

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Speaker 2: you. Take it a little about because

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Speaker 1: you deserve

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Speaker 2: it, we deserve

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Speaker 1: it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's, it's the etiquette stuff, you know, it's not a walk in the park, I think, yeah, we've amounted, we've amounted uncle john, I know there's a feeling

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Speaker 2: of accomplishment and that can be your answer to the, it's a question that's designed to sort of take it out of you a little bit and at the same time it's offered with a

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Speaker 2: sort of a spirit of assuming that, yeah, I know you probably are. And so I can, I can ask with a bit of good

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Speaker 1: humor,

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Speaker 1: it does feel like an accomplishment to be 350 episodes into the show to not have missed a single week since day one and to have, I think both in our careers that Emily post and in our lives really seen significant change. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: dan as you know, there are moments where I worry about like when you listen to the early episodes, are you getting advice that's kind of passing now? Like, you know what I mean? It's been around that long. Like you should label the early episodes like vintage, vintage awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Uh, when I, when I look at the graphics associated with the show for five years ago, I will say I cringe

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Speaker 1: we were doing a lot with very

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Speaker 2: little the aesthetics change over time. I was also thinking a lot about our listeners. We hear about so many people who go back and listen from the beginning and that's turning into a bigger and bigger project every week. Um, but even those

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Speaker 2: folks who've been with us for parts of this journey, it's been a really interesting one. And while some people,

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Speaker 2: um spend a period of time with us, some have really invested in the whole experience. And, and and even a small subset have really been listening in real time for that long that almost five years. And that's really incredible. And I want to thank everybody out there who's who's been here with us and everybody who submitted questions, as you point out

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Speaker 2: over 1000 easily, which is

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Speaker 1: I didn't point out doing the math, I didn't do the math. I didn't say over 1000 I have no idea how many 350 times question

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Speaker 2: might say it

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Speaker 2: all the time. There would be no show without you. And at 350 we would be remiss if we had an intro and we didn't thank everyone both for listening and for everything that you've contributed to this show.

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Speaker 2: So thank you to everyone who has listened and who has contributed something.

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Speaker 1: I think it's also really good time right now to thank everyone for the impact that your questions have had on us

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Speaker 1: that over time they change. But they offer us such a wonderful look into what people really are thinking about, what they are struggling with. Your feedback helps us understand ways to broaden our answers. But your questions do that to like just simply the type of question you choose to submit.

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Speaker 1: It's such a wonderful look into the world that we live in and how you're interpreting and experiencing it. And that's that is so important to to people who write and talk about behavior all the time. I mean, you can't you can't do that in a vacuum. It doesn't work

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Speaker 1: Emily. Post wouldn't last that long if it wasn't reflective of the society as opposed to being a director of it. You know what I mean? Um and so we really are so grateful for all of your contributions because they help us grow. Um they help us be more inclusive. They help us see more perspectives from all kinds of different angles and that really helps as we who run basically a content company

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Speaker 1: go to frame that content so that it is inclusive and so that it is

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Speaker 1: thoughtful and well rounded advice. And we just we are so grateful for you for all the participation that you've done with the show over over how many years did

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Speaker 2: we say? Almost five. Yes. Sweet is

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Speaker 1: said five, but it's actually a lot closer to seven years that this show has been airing for seven years.

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Speaker 2: Was he posed you have the correct bath at 52 weeks in a year.

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Speaker 1: It really has been a treat and this tree could never have started without two very important people Brendan noon um, and rico Gagliano and dan.

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Speaker 1: You want to tell him what's so great about today's show.

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Speaker 2: Brandon Enrico have agreed to join us for the postscript today to do

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Speaker 1: a little reminiscing and celebrating. Its like a dinner party, download party on awesome etiquette. I can't, I can't wait, wait, I'm really, really excited.

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Speaker 1: And because we know that that's the really exciting part of the show. What do you think? Should we wrap up this intro and get to some questions?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it and stick around for that? Post script

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Leave us a voicemail or text at 80285 A kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post install on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Just remember is the hashtag awesome etiquette with your posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Mhm.

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Speaker 1: Our first question is a great one and it's titled gifts when you're now not a guest.

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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. I am in a dilemma. I invited a college friend to my wedding and she attended with her boyfriend at the time. They got us a nice gift.

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Speaker 1: She is now getting married and originally had planned her wedding for 2020. I was invited and received my save the date and everything.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately due to covid restrictions, the wedding celebration had to be moved to this year.

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Speaker 1: I had texted her telling her how excited I was for the wedding to get here.

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Speaker 1: She then bluntly tells me sorry, but due to Covid, they had to cut the guest list down.

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Speaker 1: Is it rude to not get her a gift since she uninvited me three weeks before the wedding, anonymous,

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Speaker 2: anonymous Thank you for the

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Speaker 2: unfortunate Covid wedding etiquette question.

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Speaker 1: This

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Speaker 2: is something that we had heard about in terms of people reducing wedding sizes and pushing them back,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think we heard specifically about this scenario where someone who

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Speaker 2: was on a guest list that was reduced and is now no longer invited to the wedding is wondering about a gift. I'm going with kind of a technical answer

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Speaker 1: here, which

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Speaker 2: is that you're no longer invited to the wedding, so you're not responsible for a

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Speaker 1: gift.

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Speaker 2: I think that to me is the easy part of the answer. I have a question and I wish I could get an answer just immediately because I'm really curious about how the information was shared,

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Speaker 2: that the wedding had been reduced and moved, that the date had been changed, that the guest list had been changed. How did they distribute that information

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Speaker 2: in a way that left you with the impression that you were still invited or even knew when or things

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Speaker 1: that those are

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Speaker 2: the things that I'm wondering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And and my without having anything else, my assumption is they didn't because here are anonymous actually reached out. Like still, at least if I reached out saying how excited I was for a wedding, it's probably because I'm

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Speaker 1: expecting, I'm still invited, I haven't heard otherwise. You know what I mean? Um and I think that this, this couple has clearly had some kind of fail either in that when they made their outreach, if our anonymous somehow got like the letter didn't come in the mail that said this wedding was canceled and being rescheduled differently,

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Speaker 1: either it didn't show up or they didn't issue it at all to begin with.

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Speaker 1: And that's a real shame because boy, what an awkward position that puts you in. What do you think about the idea at the very start of this question, dan, anonymous lets us know that this friend gave them a really nice gift for anonymous is wedding a couple years ago.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that would make you any more inclined to try and give a gift even though you you kind of rudely found out you were uninvited to a wedding.

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Speaker 2: Okay. 100% honest answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Do it.

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Speaker 2: The way I was treated in between would probably impact the way I felt about it.

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Speaker 2: So if what I'm remembering, if the main thing in my mind is that these people came to my wedding, they gave me something lovely. I really appreciated it. I get invited to their wedding. It gets reduced for very reasonable reasons. They explain that to me that they're sorry that they had invited

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Speaker 2: people and they just can't do it with the way they're rescheduling or they're no longer going to be able to invite me with the way they are now doing it.

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Speaker 2: If I felt well treated through that, the good feeling from that earlier experience would probably inspire me to think, even though I'm not going to the wedding, it might be nice to send them a little something and

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Speaker 2: but if I'm not living with that good feeling realistically um giving that gift for me would have to come from a place of feeling good about giving it and if I didn't have the expectation that it happened, I didn't feel good about it, I wouldn't feel pressured to do it.

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Speaker 2: This

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Speaker 1: is I think a really nice time to bring up the difference between like dan. You and I both frequently used the phrase like two routes, don't make a polite,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I don't see as soon as you're in that position of having been uninvited from that wedding, whether you find out appropriately or not, you really are uninvited from that wedding, that's not happening anymore. And that obligation of the gift I think is lifted

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why it creates that space that that dance describing where it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if this has been handed handled really well, I wouldn't feel bad about this. I feel kind of great about getting you a gift, but it wasn't and I don't and the obligation is gone.

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Speaker 1: So maybe I'm going to lean in the direction of not and I don't want to say that to kind of think of anything in a punishing term. I don't think that's the way this is coming.

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Speaker 1: It's just a choice that you get to make. And frankly our emotions are sometimes a part of those choices. And I just think there's there's room here for what dance advocating for.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being explicit about it not being a punishment. It's not because I also I would have added that myself as I heard you talking because it's it's so important. It's not

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Speaker 2: punitive, it's just about where, where the impulse or inspiration is coming from. Honestly

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Speaker 2: anonymous. Thank you so much for the question. We really appreciate a chance to look a little bit deeper at the question of wedding gift giving.

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Speaker 1: Do you think you can be happy about rules now? Remember that rule to make things better for everybody?

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Speaker 1: Mm

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Speaker 2: Our next question is about table talk.

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Speaker 2: Hi lizzie and dan. Hello from Canberra Australia. I hope I got that right

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Speaker 2: where we have been able to dine out within covid limitations for some time. Now my question is this how do you introduce one person to a group of say six or seven people In an informal situation? For example, a friend comes over to your table to say hello when you're dining out with a group unknown to them.

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Speaker 2: I realized the new person will not remember all the names yet. I guess it is still good manners to make the full introduction. Anyway.

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Speaker 2: I always feel awkward doing this and wish I could simplify the process in a way that shows consideration and respect. Thanks so much for your podcast. It is always entertaining as well as informative, best wishes Barbara

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Speaker 1: Barbara. It's a, it's a fabulous question. A similar scenario only as opposed to add a restaurant at a table when dining out is just

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Speaker 1: you're bringing a new guest to a kind of more casual party at home

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Speaker 1: and you know, you walk in and 20 people say Anita or barbara in this case and you're like, yeah, and you don't want to do the like that's dan and lizzie and pooja and Cindy and john and you know, since everybody, you go through them all, they're never gonna remember it. And the, in that particular scenario, the key person is to make sure that the,

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Speaker 1: the guest that is unknown is immediately introduced to the host. So my solution for that was to say, hey guys, and then you introduce, what was it? Hey guys, this is Annie, Annie, I'll introduce you to everyone. Once you've met the host, this is Tobin our host, you do it that way. So you lead them through the host. But at the restaurant, this is a different scenario.

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Speaker 1: It's, I can see like, so like 67 people at a table, someone sees you dan because they know you, but they don't know anyone else at the table. But they come over to say, hi,

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Speaker 1: I think if the group has some kind of connection, I might say, oh, this is my family or you know, this is my in laws or something like that.

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Speaker 2: My team. From my

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Speaker 1: team. Exactly. Or hey, Yeah, no, I'm out with a nice group of friends tonight. We're celebrating Chelsea's birthday. Something like that. I think

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Speaker 2: could be a

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Speaker 1: really great way to acknowledge the group.

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Speaker 1: Kind of acknowledge you're not going to do individual introduction because this person also probably isn't going to like hopping up for too long standing at the side of the table of seven people. I also don't mind the, you know, around five or less people. Yeah, Do the introductions. This is, you know,

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Speaker 1: Kelsey and Stephanie and I don't know like whoever, like, you know, and then go through the introductions. If it's a smaller group

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Speaker 2: post, you're getting to the question that I was going to interrogate you with. Which is what number do you think is the number with from one on one? Because for me 67 is like it's right there. It's a question of

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Speaker 2: okay, we're just starting to get to the point where there's enough people, it might start to feel a little silly by the time I get 45 and six,

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Speaker 1: but it might not you

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Speaker 2: might be able to get through it

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. It's

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Speaker 2: 5 to 67 What is that? Cut off, it's tough,

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Speaker 1: It is, it is and I think I think five is pretty good like and then

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Speaker 1: 67 you start to be you know, I think really good good standing to start moving it to a group description. Seven feels like a stretch me anything over six I would say is move it to the group maybe. So I'm adjusting my answer as I go

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Speaker 2: I'm adjusting it lower. Also I started to think to myself I think maybe five is when you went from 7 to 6, I started to say maybe I'm going to go from six down to five.

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Speaker 1: He's always trying to one up me, you guys, he's always trying to one up me

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Speaker 2: never. It is impossible.

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Speaker 1: I

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Speaker 2: was interested also in the nature of a group introduction. When you're not going to introduce everybody and you covered all the things that I was thinking, if there's a host or a particular person, if there's a connection between the group or something that explains

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Speaker 2: what brings you together, I think that's a nice thing to offer. I love your example of, oh, this is a group of friends of mine were getting together for Kelsey's birthday. That's a lot of information for that newcomer to have in terms of how they relate to that group. I was also thinking about, um, if there are a couple of people

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Speaker 2: in the mix who might have a particular connection if they have a friend in common or

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Speaker 2: if you know them both from

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Speaker 2: a similar place. I just think if there if there are connections between the newcomer and individuals in the group, there might be reasons, natural reasons as you're making that introduction to point out a person or two.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: necessarily

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Speaker 2: singling them out or excluding the other people. If there are so many that you're not doing those individual one on one introductions.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. I could I could picture something like where the person who's come over actually might be connected to one of the people in the group through another mutual friend or something and you might single something like that out or or something. You know, I could, I could see a number of different things where that would happen.

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Speaker 1: Barbara, this is a fantastic question. I am loving all of the questions about, you know, quote unquote normal life. Again, the idea that you would be out at a restaurant and be able to see, you know, people coming over and you might say, oh, I want to go say hi to that person, but I don't want to interrupt their group and

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Speaker 1: they're thinking, I want to say hi to that person, but I don't want to go through a 20 name exchange.

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Speaker 1: It's delightful to be in these circumstances again.

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Speaker 2: And the biggest etiquette point that we could possibly make is make the introduction.

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Speaker 2: The biggest mistake people make is they say nothing socially or they say nothing because they're concerned that they won't say the right thing.

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Speaker 1: Like crickets. There's just six people around me and I'm going to ignore that fact right now. Like

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Speaker 1: Barbara, thank you again for the question.

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Speaker 1: You're standing on the outside looking in,

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Speaker 1: you might have something to contribute to their conversation,

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Speaker 1: but nobody cares whether you do or not,

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Speaker 1: there's a barrier

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Speaker 1: and you don't know how to begin breaking it down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is titled Lousy Language, Hi lizzie and dan. I really enjoy listening to your podcast, especially as we are all relearning how to operate in a post pandemic world. I have a question that relates to a difficult situation that sometimes occurs during extended family gatherings.

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Speaker 1: I have heard older extended family members use dated and offensive language to describe racial minorities

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Speaker 1: that make me and some of the younger members of my family feel uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: These situations tend to arise in a larger group gathering rather than in one on one conversations and I don't have a close relationship with the person using the offensive language. So it's difficult for me to address it privately.

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Speaker 1: I am one of the only biracial people on this side of the family. And although I have not heard family members use insensitive language against my racial group,

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Speaker 1: I still feel an obligation to speak up when I hear them use insensitive language.

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Speaker 1: This is an especially difficult situation to handle because in the area I've grown up, it's frowned upon for a younger person to confront or correct an older person. I am college staged while the family members are in their seventies and eighties,

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Speaker 1: even if it's generally agreed upon that the younger person is right.

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Speaker 1: What would be a good way to handle this the next time? This type of situation arises in a way that is respectful while still making it clear that I consider their word choices to be offensive.

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Speaker 1: Are there any sample scripts I can use the next time I'm at an extended family gathering and I hear a great aunt or uncle use insensitive language sincerely anonymous,

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Speaker 2: anonymous. Thank you so much for this question. I think a lot of people can relate problem like this and I certainly know that I can,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to know exactly what to do and it is a very personal choice how far you want to go confronting language like that or attitudes like that.

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Speaker 2: I applaud your understanding of the broad situation and the social context. I think it's really easy to lose sight of the intersectionality around these problems because they raise such strong emotions in people

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Speaker 2: and just the fact that you're remembering the context

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Speaker 2: of age and the way elders are respected in the particular community that you're operating in,

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Speaker 2: shows that you're really retaining a self awareness and an awareness of the way the social structure is operating,

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Speaker 2: That I just want to applaud and say, it gives me some confidence that if you were to decide this was something you wanted to address in the moment, before we get to the sample scripts and

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Speaker 2: what that confrontation, I don't even want to call it necessarily a confrontation because well executed, Hopefully it wouldn't necessarily feel like that.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking a lot about how I would personally handled this and how I have personally handled things like this,

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Speaker 1: and

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Speaker 2: my instinct is to work through the family network. If for some reason I identified that me being the messenger wasn't going to be effective

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Speaker 2: in getting the kinds of results that I'm really hoping for.

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Speaker 2: This person, not using that language around me in this way in the future,

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Speaker 2: firstly and secondly, maybe not using that language at all.

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Speaker 2: I think that getting that message to them from somebody they can hear it from is probably the most effective way to go about it. And

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Speaker 2: it sounds like there's some consensus in the family or you sense some consensus about there being an agreement with your perspective. And I would look for the people in the family that I'm the closest to, and particularly people in the generations that start to approach the generations that are using this language.

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Speaker 2: And I would talk to them exactly the way you talk to us when you posed this question to us, and I would ask them how they feel about it. If there's anything that they think they could do, or if there's some specific thing they could do to help you, I would be ready to make that ask,

00:24:04

Speaker 2: but I would present it exactly like you presented it to us because what you have described is so reasonable and your perspective and approach is so reasonable.

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Speaker 2: If someone in my family approached me like that, I would want to help them, I would have a strong interest in playing a role in doing what I could to help resolve that in

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Speaker 1: facilitating it. Yeah, dan, I honestly was sitting here trying to think up simple language options and

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Speaker 1: the more I I type things out for this answer, the less it felt exactly right and it's because of that distance that anonymous described between them and the person who's doing this most often at least.

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Speaker 1: And I really love your leaning on the family network and finding some other right people to talk to and

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Speaker 1: I was with you when I read anonymous is question to us, I thought, wow, this is so articulate and it is balancing very respectfully the different perspectives that are at play here and within the community, um and within the family itself, and I just completely agree, I I read that and was like, I really think someone could hear this right, just as it is,

00:25:15

Speaker 1: and that that would be a good way to get that help in. Somehow.

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Speaker 2: It's not so much my nature,

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Speaker 2: but if I was feeling like addressing the situation in the moment, or feeling like it was important that I did or that the family wasn't supporting me in the ways that I would like. In terms of delivering that message, I would keep it relatively short

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Speaker 2: and I would acknowledge that it might not sound offensive to everyone, but to you. It's offensive language and you'd rather not

00:25:49

Speaker 2: participate in discussions with it or

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Speaker 2: here it, and that

00:25:55

Speaker 2: you would be willing to remove yourself from the situation if it continued,

00:25:59

Speaker 2: because that's the control that you ultimately have is control over yourself and your response to what they're doing. You can make the request and I think the request is more likely to be honored if

00:26:11

Speaker 2: it comes with an acknowledgement that they might not understand how offensive it is for you or is for some people. But I would also be prepared for that, not to necessarily work and to take whatever actions are in my control. That will make me feel good about my participation

00:26:28

Speaker 1: from the sound of how anonymous has written to us. I also feel like you'll be able to deliver that very message without it sounding like a threat, but instead just simply sounding like the realistic options at hand for you to be able to best interact with your family at these events. I think there is something to that calmness

00:26:51

Speaker 1: and reality when you're presenting a situation, in your perspective on a situation to someone

00:26:57

Speaker 1: that especially someone who might be a little caught off guard or might not be just as understanding or sympathetic to what you're bringing up, it can just feel really good to be able to deliver that in a way that feels strong and solid and without being a threat. You know,

00:27:17

Speaker 2: lizzie post, I think that's a really good piece of advice on how to execute that. That emotional level setting is so important when you start to venture into tier two conversations, conversations about things that are potentially controversial and that people have very different opinions about

00:27:34

Speaker 1: anonymous. Thank you so much for this very well written question and we certainly hope that family gatherings can be a more pleasant experience in the future.

00:28:03

Speaker 1: Yeah,

00:28:05

Speaker 2: our next question is about a name change notice. Hi lizzie and dan. I have a question today regarding announcing a name change specifically about notifying co workers.

00:28:15

Speaker 2: I have been divorced for about three years but chose not to change my last name at the time due to both personal reasons, I didn't feel ready to change a last name. That felt very much like a part of me still and professional ones. I'm a teacher in both the public school setting as well as the university level.

00:28:30

Speaker 2: It just felt too overwhelming and I felt like I built up a bit of a professional reputation with my married name.

00:28:36

Speaker 2: However, now that some time has passed, I feel ready to go from miss married last name to miss maiden name.

00:28:44

Speaker 2: My question is, how do I go about announcing this change? If at all to my colleagues,

00:28:50

Speaker 2: because I work in school settings. My email addresses are all in the first initial last name format so it seems necessary to let my coworkers know about the change so that they are aware of the new address to use

00:29:01

Speaker 2: beginning next school year. I would also like for the people I work with and my students to use my maiden name, but again, I'm not sure how to go about relaying this information or how much detail needs to be given.

00:29:13

Speaker 2: While it was very easy to share the news of a name change due to a marriage. I feel that I might make other people uncomfortable if I tell them that the reason is a divorce or vaguely say that I'm going back to my maiden name,

00:29:25

Speaker 2: which implies the same idea.

00:29:27

Speaker 2: I also didn't begin my career until after getting married. So everyone has always known me as Miss married last name. So I've never had to start using a different name in a work setting.

00:29:37

Speaker 2: I really don't want people to feel the need to empathize and tell me they're sorry for the divorce

00:29:42

Speaker 2: while the divorce was difficult. It was several years ago now and I don't feel the need to talk about it at work. In addition I keep my work life and personal quite separate and many of my colleagues likely aren't aware the divorce even took place.

00:29:56

Speaker 2: Should I announce the name change but give no information as to why

00:29:59

Speaker 2: share that? My new last name is my maiden name

00:30:03

Speaker 2: or is there a good option I've not thought of? I feel lost and I'm at the point that I've overthought it so much that I'm not sure what to think anymore. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you again, Miss Baden name,

00:30:16

Speaker 1: Miss maiden name. Thank you so much for the question. It's an important one. The name that we want people to use is something that really should be respected and I understand at the same time the question mark of so how do I let people know? Especially if I'm someone who doesn't want too much of my private life exposed to my co workers.

00:30:34

Speaker 1: My first thought dan is too

00:30:36

Speaker 1: deal with it with the administration first because you need that email, if they're set up as you know, initial and then last name you need that to change. And I actually think because that the email, especially with how much emailing I know goes on today. I think that can really be a really strong place

00:30:56

Speaker 1: for the name change to be reinforced on a regular basis.

00:31:01

Speaker 1: If it were me, I would personally choose to send an email out to folks with my new email address, letting them know just the same way you would if you switch jobs and had a new email address or something and you were, you were sending it to other people. It's a good practice. You can keep the language in the email as clear and concise as possible. I will be using my maiden name. I am going back to my maiden name. I am

00:31:26

Speaker 1: using this name might be a way to avoid the idea of it being maiden or not. I would expect though that some people may

00:31:35

Speaker 1: jump that kind of etiquette gap and ask, you know why the change. And I think you have to decide how much you're willing to say. I just decided that after my divorce I didn't need this name anymore or whether you say it's just a decision I decided I was ready to make for myself

00:31:52

Speaker 1: is up to you. But that's kind of like I would first address the school administration and then I would send an email out. What do you think? Because did I did I do Okay. You did play. And

00:32:02

Speaker 2: the points that I would emphasize our that you announce the change of email address from your old email address. That helps. So some people will import contacts and send from the new email. But for whatever reason, people might not recognize that as you. People have different kinds of white lists and blacklists on their emails and different filters.

00:32:23

Speaker 2: So the recommendation is that you send an announcement of the change of contact to everyone

00:32:29

Speaker 2: from your old email before you make the change.

00:32:32

Speaker 2: And then you retain that old email for a little while. This is probably all part of that process that lizzie is talking about where you're changing an email within an organization, but you want to monitor that old email for a little while in case there are people that you miss. So for a little while there's this process of tracking and then following up with

00:32:49

Speaker 2: change of contact information emails to people that continue to email the old address.

00:32:54

Speaker 2: And as you suggested lizzie post, I love the using the change of contact

00:33:01

Speaker 2: as the way to get the word out and cast your net the broadest and touch the most people.

00:33:07

Speaker 2: It is entirely possible that they're going to be people who you see daily, who you don't communicate with primarily via email and for them there might be a brief conversation about the name change and

00:33:20

Speaker 2: I think you can keep your explanations as short as lizzie described, this is a decision I felt ready to make or that I've made that I feel good about

00:33:29

Speaker 2: doesn't connect it to any event in your life.

00:33:33

Speaker 2: For many, many people a divorce that you don't place a lot of emphasis on won't

00:33:39

Speaker 2: raise any flags in their mind. If it's a couple years after my divorce, I decided I was ready to go back to my family name or my original family name again, if you don't like the idea of maiden name or calling it a maiden is something that most people are going to

00:33:55

Speaker 2: here register as a name change and then just call you that new name, which is

00:34:00

Speaker 2: really nice and

00:34:03

Speaker 2: being ready to do that in person with the people that might actually call you that in person I think is definitely worth having a sample script ready for thinking about how you would explain it.

00:34:13

Speaker 1: I have two other thoughts on this particular topic to. One is that be prepared to decide whether you're going to

00:34:21

Speaker 1: make corrections if people use the name they've previously known you buy or whether you're going to let it slide. And I want to encourage you to feel comfortable making the corrections like that. I think a lot of people feel like, oh I should just not let it slide is the only way people are going to learn, especially as dan said for the folks that you don't communicate via email and aren't seeing that email address that helps to reinforce it.

00:34:43

Speaker 1: But the other thought that I had is I was always really interested when when teachers got married and names got changed and things like that. And I think you might have some very endearing moments

00:34:55

Speaker 1: whether you see them or not, but from students who actually remind other people on your behalf, most likely when you're not present. But I feel like kids are really good at absorbing stuff like this, especially the kids that you'll get next school year where you just introduce yourself as your family name, your maiden name,

00:35:14

Speaker 1: and they go straight from the get go, But I feel like, I don't know, I can remember hearing kids do stuff like that in classrooms from my childhood,

00:35:21

Speaker 2: let's suppose that is such a good boy. Kids are so perceptive and they will pick up on

00:35:28

Speaker 2: on subtle things that adults don't always pick up on, and the idea that they might end up being your allies is one that I really like

00:35:36

Speaker 2: this maiden name, we can't leave this question without acknowledging the way that you concluded, and I just so appreciated because I get in the same place, the acknowledgement that I just thought about this and thought about this so many times that I don't even know where I'm

00:35:49

Speaker 1: at and overthinking

00:35:52

Speaker 2: I am an over thinker, so I, I could really appreciate that feeling and I really hope that hearing lizzie and I talk about this question a little bit, helps calm the waters and that this change goes smoothly for you. Thank you for your questions, Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind, that's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette.

00:36:27

Speaker 2: Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:36:37

Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads, free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content

00:36:51

Speaker 1: plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.

00:37:00

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover and today we hear from Samuel about accepting compliments,

00:37:10

Speaker 2: Dear dan and lizzie. I really enjoyed episode 3 47. I am a budding writer and it's comforting to me to hear about you two working through anxieties with the editing process. In regards to the segment about accepting compliments, I would like to offer some anecdotes about what I have experienced in this realm.

00:37:27

Speaker 2: I have been in numerous business and social situations where I have received compliments that I have had a hard time appreciating for various reasons.

00:37:35

Speaker 2: My tendency is to offer a 12 punch of sorts

00:37:39

Speaker 2: to the one offering the complement one. I respond to the intent of the compliment and not the compliment itself and to quickly change the subject. Some sample language could sound like this. That's very nice of you to say wasn't it a beautiful day today

00:37:54

Speaker 2: or how very kind of you. Isn't it remarkable what they have done with this venue?

00:37:59

Speaker 1: I like it Samuel, I like it. Those are good sample scripts to.

00:38:04

Speaker 2: They are such good sample scripts sometimes saying the thing that you mean or intend to say really works well.

00:38:11

Speaker 1: Did you just say it, it works great, It works great, but and I love the transition to something else so that you don't

00:38:17

Speaker 1: feel like you're spending too much time on that conflict, you know what I mean? It's like not like you're absorbing it for real long and there are times when we all get cheeky and bask in a good compliment, but but I I'm a fan of this quick switch off to another subject. Samuel, thank you so much for sending in your feedback. Please keep it coming.

00:38:36

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:38:37

Speaker 2: And thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your next piece of feedback or update to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 80285854

00:38:52

Speaker 1: 63

00:38:56

Speaker 1: It's time for our post group segment where we dive deeper into the topic of etiquette and today we have a really special treat after years of posting us on their podcast, the dinner party download and inviting us to talk etiquette dilemmas with them.

00:39:11

Speaker 1: We're finally reciprocating the invitation to Brendan Francis union and rico Gagliano

00:39:18

Speaker 1: guys. Welcome. Thanks for having us. Finally,

00:39:23

Speaker 1: um,

00:39:25

Speaker 1: you know, I thought that it was, that was, it was polite to invite people back once, once you, once they've entertained you, but it's been what now? Years, six years. So uh far be it for me to sully the post family name. But I don't know, I'm happy that we're finally having this happen

00:39:41

Speaker 1: paper bag. Had some shame right now. We need that

00:39:46

Speaker 1: notion necessary.

00:39:48

Speaker 1: Rick. I think you're, you're muted.

00:39:50

Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you are classic zoom right off the bat. I know we can talk about it. I wish we had zoom when we were recording together. We could immunity each other except we would have just done that. And I've never spoken that would have been a preferred. I think at a certain point. Thank you for not rubbing our noses in it too much

00:40:10

Speaker 1: when it's too late to finally reciprocate. Never.

00:40:16

Speaker 1: We would be remiss if we didn't ask, how have things been? How have things been going? What's been going on?

00:40:23

Speaker 1: You want to start breaded? Yeah, I can try it. Like things are going well. I mean if there is some sign of how things are at the moment,

00:40:29

Speaker 1: we haven't really worked on anything directly together in a while because we've just been busy leading our lives. We've been asked to put together an article about how to blow off the rust and your dinner party muscles and how to like, you know, how do we approach dinner parties now in this post Covid world? So that's the most immediate thing at hand. So it's been nice to

00:40:48

Speaker 1: hang out with rico again. So in some ways this feels seamless.

00:40:51

Speaker 1: Pretty great.

00:40:52

Speaker 1: Yeah. Things have been well, but

00:40:54

Speaker 1: go ahead rico.

00:40:55

Speaker 1: Well, I mean I had a kid

00:40:57

Speaker 1: that was interesting adulation. They still have the kid, right? You still have the kid, right? I think so. I think he's around here somewhere. Actually, we're recording this on a day where his mom took him to the beach. So that's lucky for you because otherwise this would just be a series of renting screams coming from behind me.

00:41:17

Speaker 1: He's actually really adorable. But I can tell you, I would have really liked to have had access to you guys monthly to ask you about what's the etiquette around say, having a screaming child around other families? You know, like she, did you feel embarrassed when your child like pulls another child's hair right in front of their father?

00:41:37

Speaker 1: Should you

00:41:38

Speaker 1: be worried if the child throws something at another child? The same questions he asked about me when we work together, I'll tell you one of my favorite moments was when over the over the past few years. Like, I think twice Brendan's reached out to me with a natural etiquette question and I was like

00:41:59

Speaker 1: over the moon thrilled, like would call dan immediately afterwards. Like they reached out like Brendan reached out like this. I mean, it's amazing though, but it is, it's a little bit of like having the Harvey Keitel character in pulp fiction, you know, you're in a situation,

00:42:16

Speaker 1: you're you know, I think last time I was in New Orleans, like, you're just in a moment and you're like, you know what?

00:42:21

Speaker 1: I literally know the person who knows the answer to this. I got to ask you guys, are you are you missing the DPD days? Are you feeling like it's great to kind of have it in its capsule and living where it lives now and moving on and doing other things.

00:42:36

Speaker 1: I'll say that I I kind of miss it. The thing that I miss about it is that the show, like, that is very rare.

00:42:42

Speaker 1: There just aren't that many shows like that around anymore. And it was like very, I think, rare to have an opportunity to do a kind of variety show like that where we could talk about 10,000 different things. I think the trend is more towards niche thing, not niche, I guess more towards compartmentalize things. You have a movie, podcast, you have a

00:43:01

Speaker 1: food podcast, you have a different type of. It was cool to basically because we're omnivores. We've always been into everything that was like our brand was eclecticism

00:43:09

Speaker 1: and I don't know that there's that many shows where they can even have that brand anymore. It would be too hard to get an audience for it. So I feel lucky that we did it and in that sense I really miss it.

00:43:20

Speaker 1: I don't know what what do you think?

00:43:22

Speaker 1: No, I agree. I mean a magazine format is hard for a lot of reasons and it's hard, it's hard to, you can get one travel advertiser for travel show, you can get one food advertiser for food show. We were we were everything. But I'd like to think we were like an index fund. If you just let it over time, it compounds and you will really love it and it was probably the way to go. But unfortunately, you know,

00:43:42

Speaker 1: in this, in our modern

00:43:44

Speaker 1: american american capitalism, that's not, that's not the way we operate under.

00:43:48

Speaker 1: But no, I mean, I'm proud of it in retrospect and I feel lucky that it happened. It was just such a confluence of things like

00:43:56

Speaker 1: rico and I like working at the same place at the same time, podcast being ascendant us not having any social life so we could stay late and work on things and then being in L. A. Before L. A. Was L. A. In a sense that we could really just scramble around and kind of interview great guests. Like we were some of the only people running around microphones at that point

00:44:15

Speaker 1: and that was exciting. Um, so yeah, I'm happy. But it was, it took a lot the metabolism as you guys know. I mean, this is your 300 produced show,

00:44:24

Speaker 1: but it's a lot of doing that sort of rhythm. It really,

00:44:28

Speaker 1: I think it's like when you go into vacation once a year, when you really shut off your phone, which I've never really done, this is all theoretical, like, you can really refresh in a way that you want, like, you get it, you're like, oh right, my brain, I feel like different. When I returned to work, I'm feeling strong. I feel like it's taken, it took me like a

00:44:47

Speaker 1: a year, at least after DPD to really just start to

00:44:51

Speaker 1: come down off that kind of, you know, 41 episodes a year for over a decade. It was a lot,

00:44:57

Speaker 1: yeah, I remember feeling the same way for you. It was like, I was kind of doing freelance stuff and I remember there were times when it was like, I should probably be beaten the trees for my next gig

00:45:08

Speaker 1: and instead my wife would go after the work and I would just like sit at home and like watch videos. It was like, I did a full year of just vegging out on to

00:45:18

Speaker 1: just get over. Lucky for her, she had the job, could support me through that. I don't know if she knows that that's what was happening. Uh she's a Patreon member. Uh she does got to make sure she never listens to this. Uh

00:45:37

Speaker 1: Thank you. Well, I've got to tell you, I had an incredible experience. A couple weeks ago, I got drawn down a google sort of trapped and it led me right into the dinner party download archive and I just had so much fun hanging out in the archives of your show. And

00:45:54

Speaker 1: um, I was trying to find early episodes of lizzie and I, so one of the things I could reach show descriptions back a certain distance, then we got to a point where there was a non standard format or even the show descriptions,

00:46:05

Speaker 1: I find that I have to listen right. And so the time it took me to read the description was about the time it took to listen to the opening joke. So I listened to just like

00:46:14

Speaker 1: joke after joke, after joke, after joke after joke. And in the early shows, I really got to get into some of your early guests and that experience that you're describing running around the city and just getting that microphone in front of people. You've got some incredible guests on that show. I just can't even imagine it must have been so much fun.

00:46:30

Speaker 1: It was fun. It was a lot of work. Currently I work at pushing industries, which is like a podcast and audio publishing company. And so there's about like 25 producers and

00:46:40

Speaker 1: like I just find I find this in life in a certain extent, this is this is actually good etiquette question, Angel Olsen, lizzo, al pacino steve martin, spike lee. Like these are all people we've talked to, we've interviewed before, we prepped for the conversation, so that times, you know,

00:46:57

Speaker 1: 600 times three, like we just talked to a lot of people and you get to a point where you feel

00:47:03

Speaker 1: you're not bragging, you're just helping your their booking guests and you say like, oh, you know what actually,

00:47:08

Speaker 1: like you understand the mechanics of booking, you know, publicist, you know, who will go places who won't and I sometimes feel emba embarrassed that I have too much accrued knowledge

00:47:17

Speaker 1: about interviewing celebrities and you don't want to be the know it all. On the one hand, you have a leadership position, so you're

00:47:25

Speaker 1: the reason you have your job because you have this experience, but it does become, you know, you become, it becomes a little awkward like Lizzo for example, who is like

00:47:34

Speaker 1: greatest biggest like, you know, celebrity on the planet for good reason.

00:47:39

Speaker 1: You know, early days played three songs at a live show we did in Minnesota before she recorded, you know, all of her hit songs and we just knew that she was going to take over the world, right? And that's a weird feeling. So all those memories of all those interviews, I'm so proud of them, I'm trying to meet out my knowledge of it carefully so as not to appear like a total

00:47:59

Speaker 1: blow hard

00:48:00

Speaker 1: old man glory days dude. Yeah. It's like when Lizza was blowing up, I felt though that was one of those things where it was like, I wish we still had the show because we wouldn't even have to get the now. Very difficult to book Liuzzo on the show. We could be like, Hey Lizzo, just like got nominated for a Grammy Award. Here's the interview or here's her playing a song before you knew who the hell she was. So the compound interest right there. See that's the exact interest exactly

00:48:32

Speaker 1: between you two and us to new york and L. A. And Vermont you were with Lizzo before she looked, I discovered her about a week and a half ago and I don't know him dancing in the garage with my two little girls to that song that starts with the marching band. It is awesome. Good.

00:48:54

Speaker 1: Really glad you're both here. How did you kind of fair throughout it. You both on separate coasts and such different cities, Different states. Different mandates, different experiences.

00:49:04

Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, well I've been joking that I became normal over the pandemic. Um, you can, you know, you can see my hair short right now and I don't have a shaggy beard. And also, uh, bought a car gained £8 at one point, um, started watching tv casually, which I never did, started eating like garbage,

00:49:23

Speaker 1: started like being grouchy

00:49:25

Speaker 1: bought normal genes, like all these things, which I just didn't really like

00:49:30

Speaker 1: do, I started to do, my partner moved in. I took a steady job and I felt like I just became normal. I was normalized, which was exotic for me. And uh, it was interesting and there was kind of a frisson of excitement by pretending to be normal

00:49:46

Speaker 1: And so we're just coming out of that. So I'm really interested in seeing how this works out

00:49:51

Speaker 1: now, that if the world returns to its previous pace, um whether I return to my previous frenzied state or I, I just kind of ride this out, so that was one of the headlines,

00:50:02

Speaker 1: but in very real terms, I stayed in new york for most of it. Um and um I found deeper in love with new york. Um it was pretty tough time, but the people who did stick it, I mean the rich fled immediately as you know, in Vermont, another, like they all went up, they just, they just disappeared, Every house under $600,000 disappeared, they're bought

00:50:21

Speaker 1: people in the Hamptons, but the city just kind of

00:50:23

Speaker 1: got down to its essentials, but then

00:50:26

Speaker 1: I did fall in love with something

00:50:29

Speaker 1: over Covid, which I need to talk to you guys about, which is

00:50:32

Speaker 1: Vermont, which I'd never been to, I'd never been to Vermont, but I couldn't travel to europe, I couldn't get to the west coast where I normally spend a little bit of time and I got a car and so I was like, let's see what's going on. And I went to Cape Cod, where I used to go as a child, and then I dipped into Vermont to visit a friend in cornwall

00:50:51

Speaker 1: which is near the Middlebury,

00:50:53

Speaker 1: it's one of my fans places, so, and I was like holy christmas, this is like the south of France over here, there's like, no, that's like literally one of the town's moved to possibly natural one, I mean it was just so

00:51:05

Speaker 1: juxtaposition of, I'm just gonna own who I am of like rural with like good politics, like this Bernie Sanders signed etcetera, but um but like natural foods and not like, like

00:51:18

Speaker 1: you know 20% hippie, that kind of vibe, but also just like great hiking and then I was always concerned about Vermont that there wouldn't be water because there's no coast,

00:51:27

Speaker 1: but oh my God, there's so many like swimming halls, swimming hole culture blew my mind.

00:51:32

Speaker 1: So anyway, New England has been uh weirdly is like really been, it's been a boon to my imagination and my life has been over Covid. So do you know where are you guys in Vermont? What town are you in? So I'm in Burlington dancing, Waterbury area, but what you're describing that you did like going up there, driving around all the healthy food, all the beautiful scenes, all the rivers and swimming holes like my friends and I call that Vermont ng, it's like where you just go out and you just go into Vermont and you will be taken care of with a fabulous day no matter what you do and it's like creamy,

00:52:08

Speaker 1: so much fun. I'm sitting here trying to think of what Los Angeles saying would be, don't people go to some canyon there to go hiking Griffith Park between canyon.

00:52:20

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit of a different experience,

00:52:24

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little bit of a different experience that because first you have to fight traffic and hate everybody to get to the place where you go go to nature and then you get there and be 1000 people there. So I have a feeling, I'm not sure about this, maybe it got overrun during the pandemic, but out here basically there was nothing to do except

00:52:44

Speaker 1: go to parks or go hiking. So suddenly those places were just crazy, it was like going to a rock concert, you went on the hike up to the Griffith Observatory was like a slam dance. It was nuts. We were just walking my neighborhood a lot with my child in a little car by the way.

00:53:03

Speaker 1: He has, he has this little tiny car and like seeing a tiny baby in a tiny car just like, definitely makes things feel better in the waving at people.

00:53:14

Speaker 1: What do you guys each working on now as you're coming out of the pandemic? I know you mentioned the article, which thank you very much for reaching out to us for an interview for. We always appreciate it. What kind of projects are you working on? What have you got going on,

00:53:29

Speaker 1: rico? Go ahead.

00:53:31

Speaker 1: All right, I'm doing. And man, am I busy on it?

00:53:35

Speaker 1: Uh launching on june 3rd is the first podcast for streaming movie service that I'm doing. It's called Movie M U. B I is the name of the streaming service and they stream like cinephile movies. Think criterion collection except even cooler

00:53:54

Speaker 1: and it's all very handpicked. It's like they have a team of curators as who like pick these great movies from all eras and from around the world and I'm doing a podcast for them, the first season of which is based on a I think a very cool idea, which is that

00:54:08

Speaker 1: every country has its own kind of Star Wars and its own kind of godfather's these movies that were gigantic hits that had huge impacts on their culture

00:54:18

Speaker 1: and we don't know anything about them.

00:54:20

Speaker 1: And actually if you learn about these giant hits and these other cultures, you learn a lot about those cultures. So every episode we're taking on a movie that was gigantic in some country that you may not have heard of and sort of talk about the, how it came to be, how it was made and the impact that it had on that country has been totally fascinating.

00:54:39

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to listen to that.

00:54:42

Speaker 1: It is very cool. I got to talk to paul Verhagen, which Brendan may recall. We've talked to him early and party download times. He, he is insane and you know that I love the dutch, so I got to talk to him and a lot of other dutch people and just had a great time and learned a lot about dutch culture, indian culture. We're doing one from africa, this like direct to VHS movie that basically created the current Nigerian film industry. It's like, it's more mind blowing that I thought it would be, so it's really great. But I'm also doing everything like the other thing that I miss about DPD is that we had a big staff and a budget,

00:55:21

Speaker 1: I have none of those things, so I hope it doesn't sound like this like me and a couple of guys putting it together, you know, I look forward to hearing it. Also people, you guys know that rico went to F I as well as he's always been a, you've been a big cinephile and I feel like I can't think of a better person to kind of build these docks in a way.

00:55:40

Speaker 1: So I look forward to hearing it

00:55:42

Speaker 1: and I really want to hear what you've been doing other than actually Brennan and I are working, hopefully going to be working on something in the future, but we'll let that stay, we haven't, we haven't signed the contract. Yes, that's right.

00:55:55

Speaker 1: So that normal job I took over Covid is with pushing industries, which is Malcolm Gladwell's and Jacob Weisberg podcast company. Jacob Weisberg is the former ceo of slate and they're an audio publishing company. And so they have about 16

00:56:10

Speaker 1: podcast, revisionist history, Jill Lepore's, the last archive, Michael Lewis is against the rules. They're going to do it from Kennedy's be anti races. Like they have a lot of great kind of nonfiction engaging, I think the frame, intelligent pleasure. You know, it's like a little, it's smart, it's journalism, but there's a little um verve and whimsy

00:56:29

Speaker 1: and they also

00:56:31

Speaker 1: produce audio books. Were audio originals. And essentially these are like audio documentaries, they're not books turned into audio, they're just built on their own, they're just sold as opposed to just distributed for free in podcast. Like we're in this Patreon world as we all recognize advertising alone is kind of a real hard way to do things.

00:56:50

Speaker 1: And so they experimented with that form

00:56:53

Speaker 1: and three things. This year we did a bio of Fauci um with Michael Specter who's a new yorker writer and we made this 3.5 hour

00:57:01

Speaker 1: kind of doc on Fauci. It started from this new yorker article, you know, the reporter had done a lot of work on Larry Kramer and act up the AIDS crisis, which Fauci was. That's where he cut his teeth as a public health out like that. And so we kind of do this longer profile

00:57:16

Speaker 1: and then we released the bomber mafia which just came out a couple weeks ago and it was Malcolm Gladwell original and it's about

00:57:24

Speaker 1: this kind of the philosophy of precision bombing versus blanket bombing in World War Two and then also a paul Simon documentary that I've been working on for a year. It's like this five, we've sat down and have 40 hours of conversations with paul Simon, we're turning into like a five part

00:57:40

Speaker 1: documentary about paul Simon and it's kind of a creative biography

00:57:44

Speaker 1: um and you're hanging out with him and he's playing records and he's strumming his guitar and then we'll kind of cast their mind back and um you know, unpacked moments in his career and that sort of thing.

00:57:54

Speaker 1: Um so that's been my line should work, but I did did bury the lead in that before Covid, I was working on this show that I'm working on for years, which is, it is a travel show and this is more purely my thing where I

00:58:07

Speaker 1: just romp around the world and I see if you guys can this make sense to you. So it's someone like I am the character in this named Brendan Francis knew him, he had a

00:58:18

Speaker 1: fairly successful podcast radio show that ends

00:58:22

Speaker 1: his relationship ends um and he wants to make a travel show, so he makes this show where he starts to go places like Montreal, Mexico city bozeman, Montana, and you travel with this guy as he's making a travel show, so you're in the travel show, but you're really seeing him,

00:58:39

Speaker 1: we make mistakes, trying to figure out life

00:58:43

Speaker 1: etcetera. So that show is called Not Lost

00:58:46

Speaker 1: Nice. So, I don't know, it's interesting that that we kind of ended up going in

00:58:53

Speaker 1: similar directions. We're still talking about art and we're still talking about like the whole universe of culture that's out there.

00:59:02

Speaker 1: True, true to our roots, man, we wouldn't have this show without you guys. And I even remember telling

00:59:10

Speaker 1: Brendan that I feel like higher etiquette was born out of knowing you guys and like then getting the show on our own and things like that. So

00:59:20

Speaker 1: for us, I feel like we're just so incredibly grateful for the experience that we had doing that one little segment with you guys. We learned so much as posts from being guests of yours and I think that's

00:59:34

Speaker 1: just a great, great lesson when we're on an etiquette podcast, talking about the idea that observing people who do things really well and emulating them is worth it. Like I feel like we took that one segment that we did with you and we were able to blow it up to a whole show and you guys really gave us four or five years of training us how to how to do that. And I mean I want to, I feel like that and I have, I've just been going, going, but is that so I feel like we'll probably do like some sort of royalty right starts making money.

01:00:15

Speaker 1: Is that employee to start talking about?

01:00:17

Speaker 1: But not to get too kumbaya here, but you are in Vermont and uh I remember distinctly and I don't remember a lot of things, but we got every book in the world sent to us, which is one of the reasons we took that job was like let's get free stuff if we're not gonna, you know like I don't know, we're not going to be independently wealthy on our own, but we can get all the culture given to us for free.

01:00:37

Speaker 1: Anyway we had

01:00:38

Speaker 1: bunch of books, your latest edition which I don't know, I've used to announce it every week. What was your last dish? Have you made an addition since that time we've been working on the 20th this year, I'm really proud of it, you know, I can't wait to see it, but I remember, so I'm thinking that it was the 18th or 19th edition, basically got this beautiful book

01:00:55

Speaker 1: um that was the same shape as one of my favorite or one of my fundamental cookbooks was Mark Bittman's, How to cook everything. It was like around the same size, that kind of door stopping, but comprehensive and telegraphed authority. And I remember thinking

01:01:09

Speaker 1: there was a guide to this and it was going to be updated because things change. And it really did kind of

01:01:15

Speaker 1: plant a seed in our mind which kind of emerge in our book, which is how to host a dinner party where we take on this kind of amplified faux authority about something like the dinner party. But we drew that a lot of it drew came from your guys actual example. So

01:01:29

Speaker 1: we all helped each other, man. Yeah, I do actually remember that coming up in meetings with publishers and things like that. So thanks, thanks for creating the template.

01:01:40

Speaker 1: Okay,

01:01:42

Speaker 1: because get your voice in here a bit. Let's see what else is on our script. I'm so absorbed. I'm not kidding. I left it. I let it disappear off my screen so I could keep eye contact it.

01:01:53

Speaker 1: The only other thing I would say is has etiquette found you in your lives lately. Like, have you noticed things since all the stuff that we've talked about? I mean, I'm just curious. Do you do you think about it anymore since you ran a show where for years and years and years you you talk to people about etiquette,

01:02:09

Speaker 1: you're like some of the few people we know who also do that. I think about it a lot. I mean, I feel like one of the legacies of the DPD, which I never thought about. I still feel like there's sometimes like

01:02:21

Speaker 1: if it comes up, people are like, I want to make me a cocktail hour. Like it's always like, they think like you're right rico, like they think you're James bond or something. Like there's kind of like, oh, I know you like, you know, I got this Singapore sling and you're like, dude, like I am old and it is Wednesday and I drink cocktails maybe once a month. Like, I mean, I'll drink mine a lot, but

01:02:40

Speaker 1: like, like that part of the identity. I feel like really captured peoples imagination.

01:02:45

Speaker 1: No one asked me for, maybe it's just me, but no one looks at me as an authority on etiquette really? So I don't have it in like a very concrete way where people are like, well we should check in on Brendan about the proper way. Like don't be jokes,

01:02:57

Speaker 1: but I do find, you know, two things one it brings to my one is uh, I have my own questions and we may be rico presented something while we're working on this article of like

01:03:06

Speaker 1: re socializing. Now. I found myself in moments of

01:03:10

Speaker 1: for lack of a better word or you're misusing appraise brain fog where I find myself

01:03:15

Speaker 1: losing the thread a little bit faster than I normally would and as a former host, I feel responsible when the,

01:03:22

Speaker 1: when there's a conversation that goes lopsided and trying, there's not really an etiquette question, but it's like, how does one recover from that? How do you do you own that moment with people? Say, you know what, I'm so sorry, like I'm just getting back in the swing or do you just pretend to listen sometimes? Is it more polite to pretend you caught it? Like,

01:03:40

Speaker 1: you know, so I don't know, sometimes it's more polite to not to say, you know apologize like I didn't hear what you were saying, it's better like roll with it uh those sorts of micro kind of socializing moments I'm having a little trouble with and I,

01:03:52

Speaker 1: so I got to get on that.

01:03:54

Speaker 1: Um and then the other part is just getting older where I feel like,

01:03:59

Speaker 1: you know when you're and we ran our own show and we had people who you know worked with us beneath us or you know there's a hierarchical sense, but we were leaders, but it is there is a real like

01:04:10

Speaker 1: magnanimity that you have to embrace when you're educating and you're helping other people get

01:04:15

Speaker 1: to a destination and and that learning how to

01:04:19

Speaker 1: not do it yourself or not be, you know glib and not be bruised, like just kind of help other people that is a new level of etiquette that I feel like just comes with being older and like being in a different station in life and I'm sure dan is a parent like Enrico, you know, like he's too small, but you know what I mean, like there comes a moment where you just have to like

01:04:39

Speaker 1: don't let people make mistakes in front of you, like not come in with the right answer, be graceful about it. I don't know those are my two kind of

01:04:47

Speaker 1: buckets of etiquette ish stuff, I can relate to that as dan and I have changed even our roles that Emily Post's and since we were last working with you guys monthly, you know, we've shifted to really take on and run the business now,

01:05:02

Speaker 1: which has been really different for us. And we talk about exactly what you just mentioned, like how do we work with the people around us well,

01:05:10

Speaker 1: so that you can, you know, encourage them to get done, what needs to be done and tweak it in ways that keep that encouragement alive if it's not happening right, you know, like how you described it like a different position and it's sort of role within your life and it does just come with age and experience over time. Like there's, there's a,

01:05:31

Speaker 1: is it? Yeah.

01:05:33

Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope that that's true because I think I'm about to enter a phase where I'm gonna be like having to dictate a lot of behavioral rules to a child

01:05:44

Speaker 1: two little right now to understand anything. So, and it's great. I just noticed this the other day is that like, kids can do things that obviously we can't get away with and everybody goes like, adorable. And right now, it's kind of actually easy in that sense. But there's gonna come a point when it's not okay that my child is doing X, y, and Z, and it's going to reflect poorly on both him and myself and figure out how to guide that. And I hope I know what to do.

01:06:12

Speaker 1: I mean, it's also for you during the pandemic, I mean, it's just amazing how many norms are just went out the window down to. I mean, even though this isn't necessarily a uh an issue of etiquette,

01:06:26

Speaker 1: but it is things like, I guess it sort of is is that people go to work. You know, we would be having a zoom meeting, like we're having right now and I would be wearing sweatpants or something and you wouldn't necessarily see it. But if I did get up and walk to the other room and someone said I was wearing sweatpants, I don't know that anybody would have cared. We're all going to have to remind ourselves that

01:06:44

Speaker 1: I'm actually wearing running shorts right now because I was just playing tennis,

01:06:47

Speaker 1: right? So

01:06:50

Speaker 1: I really and I gotta I gotta actually, my partner gives me because I get dressed because I'm like, I don't know, in a pair of sweat pants. Um The only reason this has happened because I would miss, I forgot the time and I was coming back from tennis and then rico, techno music. Oh my goodness.

01:07:07

Speaker 1: But but yeah, it's a it's a new world order.

01:07:11

Speaker 1: I think we have a new rule you guys when you're when one of your guests stands on his chair to reveal his lower half a tire status. That's like, that's the lamp shade on the head now. Uh,

01:07:27

Speaker 1: I mean, the real awkward thing is the shirt like, why am I wearing an Oxford shirt on a sunday

01:07:32

Speaker 1: dan only has, well, I believe that dan sleeps in. And I mean, you know,

01:07:37

Speaker 1: gentlemen and etiquette, this emergence, It's awesome. It's so good to, it's so good to see you. It's so good to hear you. One thing that I do remember from the script is that we said before you walked out the door, We absolutely have to ask you for a joke.

01:07:51

Speaker 1: Oh,

01:07:54

Speaker 1: but the icebreaker from your show was always always a great, great start.

01:07:59

Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I have our pants on,

01:08:03

Speaker 1: you know, DVD we'd ask, we know a question would also be, tell us something we don't know and it can be, in fact, but you or something in the world and I bet you rico doesn't know this, but in Vermont, along with your cheese is your maple syrup, your cream, ease your ciders, your whatever, right? That the standard stuff you one would imagine

01:08:24

Speaker 1: when you drive on that road that goes up through to Burlington,

01:08:27

Speaker 1: there are signs or Vermont shrimp,

01:08:31

Speaker 1: shrimp, there's a shrimp farm you're talking about in Vermont very confused when I see the shrimp farm in Vermont and the first couple times I don't buy it, I was like,

01:08:41

Speaker 1: I didn't ask for it, don't need it just because you can, doesn't mean you should, you know that kind of science thing.

01:08:47

Speaker 1: Isn't that an odd fact? Shrimp, shrimp? Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one. Oh man. I have so many good facts that I'm just blanking on it. So I am going to give you a joke. I happen to have our book right here because I was reading it. It's ready to do this article.

01:09:04

Speaker 1: So it's a knock knock too.

01:09:09

Speaker 1: To who,

01:09:10

Speaker 1: to whom. I can't believe that It's a pretty brilliant joke because it uses the form very well as well as being a persnickety gravity, really bad didn't Also, I've been pretending to understand that joke since I first started because I went to a bad public school and still don't know how to use who or whom.

01:09:32

Speaker 1: So I just avoid it,

01:09:33

Speaker 1: you know, and that's how you got a job working for Malcolm. Gladwell. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

01:09:42

Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you guys! This has been so delightful to do a very long, wonderful postscript segment. I want to encourage everyone to go to Patreon and listen to the entire thing because I'm guessing we're going to have to make this shorter

01:09:58

Speaker 1: guys, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. It has been so great to have you here celebrating our 350th

01:10:05

Speaker 1: with us. Thanks for having us and congratulations to you. Yeah, your show doesn't look a day under 349. That's true. We're really happy that your show made it lizzie. So happy that you guys are still together. Making awesome show. Couldn't be happier. Thank you.

01:10:25

Speaker 1: Thank you for having us on your show. How polite of you to rub it in our faces, polite of you to continue on. Thank you for your continued to thrive.

01:10:44

Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms and today we have a salute from Wendy in California.

01:10:56

Speaker 2: Hi dan and lizzie. I always enjoy listening to your show dan. Congrats on the family. I'm a mom of three and it's the best kind of chaos

01:11:05

Speaker 2: I'm writing with an etiquette salute for my cousin's husband, Corey. A while back, we were exchanging text messages to make a plan for getting together with our kids.

01:11:14

Speaker 2: My family was road tripping and passing through my cousins town as we tried to coordinate. Corey did something small that I really appreciated. He presented a couple of options and then ended his message with no wrong answer.

01:11:27

Speaker 2: Those three little words were so comforting and immediately erased any of the ANC's that often goes with trying to interpret the meaning of a text message.

01:11:35

Speaker 2: I didn't waste time second guessing things are worrying that we were going to be an inconvenience. Instead, I chose the option that works best for our trip and looked forward to meeting up. Now I often employ no wrong answer in my own text exchanges,

01:11:49

Speaker 2: thanks for highlighting the kindness in the world best Wendy in California.

01:11:54

Speaker 1: I love that salute and I love people who make a message something that's very easy to, you know, to just engage with and move whatever the plan making is forward

01:12:07

Speaker 1: rather than more of the like, I don't know what do you want to do, you know?

01:12:12

Speaker 2: Absolutely. I I use no wrong answer all the time when I'm presenting all the time, but it's a it's a phrase that I turn to and

01:12:20

Speaker 2: I'm now thinking about using it in texts.

01:12:22

Speaker 1: I like it, I like it

01:12:24

Speaker 1: Wendy, thank you so much for the salute.

01:12:28

Speaker 1: Thank

01:12:31

Speaker 2: you for listening. Thank

01:12:32

Speaker 1: you to everyone who sent us something and who supports us on Patreon. Please

01:12:37

Speaker 2: do connect with us and share this show with friends, family and co workers and on social media

01:12:42

Speaker 2: you can send those

01:12:43

Speaker 1: questions feedback and salutes by email to awesome medicated Emily post

01:12:47

Speaker 2: dot com by phone.

01:12:48

Speaker 1: You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We're at Emily Post install on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute.

01:13:04

Speaker 2: Please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting Patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app and please consider leaving us a review that helps our show ranking, which helps more people find

01:13:20

Speaker 1: awesome etiquette. Our show is edited Albertine, an assistant produced by Brigitte.

01:13:25

Speaker 2: Dowd. Thanks chris criticism Bridget.

01:13:28

Speaker 2: Yeah

01:13:34

Speaker 1: mm