Episode 359 - Singing Happy Birthday
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on tipping for events, a hurried host, when to sing happy birthday and public street parking problems. For Awesome Etiquette sustaining members our question is about estranged family not acknowledging gifts. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and postscript on a sneak peek in to the characters we’ve created for the 20th edition of Emily Post’s Etiquette.
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social goodness. See it's old fashioned,
Speaker 1: watch how busy post and they're supposed to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette where
Speaker 2: we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we take your question on tipping for events. A hurried host. When does sing? Happy birthday and public street parking problems
Speaker 2: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about estranged family not acknowledging gifts
Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript that's a sneak peek into the characters we've created for the 20th edition of Emily Post's etiquette.
Speaker 1: All that's coming up,
Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie Post
Speaker 1: and I'm dan post sending, hey
Speaker 2: guys,
Speaker 1: congratulations,
Speaker 2: congratulations to Youtube. The book is in, it's
Speaker 1: not finished, but it's in,
Speaker 2: it's in, it's in we have gone through what is considered the developmental edit. This is where you're really working the content to be, what it needs to be, where it needs to be in cross cross referenced correctly.
Speaker 2: Um and the next edit that happens on our project is the copy edit. So it's like once everything is really clean, that's when they go through
Speaker 2: and make sure that all the grammar and the spelling is perfect on it. Um and that's that's always a really satisfying stage. But boy, this last one because how do you feel this was this is your most intense editing experience so far? I think. Right,
Speaker 1: it absolutely has been and I'm feeling so
Speaker 2: good. That is good.
Speaker 2: I
Speaker 1: mean there is still some nervousness obviously and there is still a lot of work to be done as you mentioned, but
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways the bulk of that work has shifted out of our hands will still be very closely involved with a lot of it. But the heaviest lift for you and me is all done.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you but I am feeling that like wait release of like, oh my goodness. It's been,
Speaker 2: I think we've been about 2.5 months straight
Speaker 2: of every day. There was some kind of pressure and push to get this work farther along to get it really honed so that you know, you know what I mean and that work. It just, it does take so much time and it was passing through my eyes, your eyes,
Speaker 2: Tricia post size, sometimes peter post size and Cindy and and Peggy's eyes.
Speaker 2: Um and it was then back to ours together and then there would often be, especially these last couple of weeks, you did a really good job on the last round of doing like a hard read.
Speaker 2: Does this all really make sense? What are we really saying now that we've said the stuff we want to say?
Speaker 2: And it was really good at it. So it's funny. I remember the episodes where we were talking about having finished the writing and having finished then the first round of edits before they went into the publisher and how great it felt and how proud of this book we are
Speaker 2: and I am like so much more proud of this version. You know, it's like boy, I'm glad we did, I'm glad we got that three months, you know, or the couple months break while Caitlin had it and then, you know, the three months ourselves to work on it. But boy, I got to say for sort of
Speaker 2: a clean manuscript that came back to us from the publisher, we reworked some stuff big time and getting in there and
Speaker 2: really debating that out. It was interesting writing like the emotional roller coaster of it as well as the actual content producing roller coaster of it. It was funny how I would get so frustrated
Speaker 2: any time we had corrections to make and I knew that it was a really good thing to have happening at the same time. You know, it would be like,
Speaker 2: no, I just I just want to know that we've done it right and well, to get it right, you've got to keep editing it, like, you've got to keep going after it.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine the emotional toll that it must take of working so hard to generate that first draft and then to watch people just
Speaker 1: in iteration after iteration, go through and
Speaker 1: pull it apart and pick it apart and ask the demanding questions. I I really applaud your emotional stability through the last couple of months. I I know that I have a hard time taking a lot of criticism and responding well to critique of work. And I thought you did a did a really great
Speaker 2: job. Well, thank you for that. I was cracking up over one of our very last exchanges where you know, this is like
Speaker 2: we're literally talking 11th hour, like it's 11:11 p.m. On the last night, the day we're trying to turn it in in on our due date. Actually, it's like beyond our due date. But the last final day, we can really get it into the publisher
Speaker 2: and you were going over this one paragraph and and just kind of kicking yourself for it, like, just say, oh, what have we written? What is this one? And I finally had to fight them and say, I'm it's hard to hear you say that, and you were like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 2: I was saying it to me, I thought I wrote this section
Speaker 1: like, this doesn't make any sense. What are even saying here, we start like this. And we finished like this, and this is how we transition.
Speaker 2: Each one was like a hit to my heart, and it was like, it was a good moment of actually being able to express that, and you both taking it well and letting me know it had not been your intention at all to create that feeling you thought you were talking to and about yourself. It was but it was that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: that I think I wasn't expecting to emotionally deal with during the process. You know? It's like I know we've got to rework this this content. I know we've got to make it the very best it can be.
Speaker 2: I think that was one of the more more interesting aspects of it and difficult and difficult that and just the grueling nous of it the every day when we took a day off on Tuesday this week, it was transformative. Like the idea that when you finish your dinner you're not going back for a three hour editing session or that
Speaker 2: if you don't then read after the three hour editing session, you're not like bargaining for time in the morning, like okay, I could wake up an hour early
Speaker 2: before our next session together, you
Speaker 1: know? Reading done that I didn't do last night because I just went to sleep
Speaker 2: because like everything is a bar everything of your time is a bargain, you know, and and that includes the fun stuff like birthday celebrations and hanging out with the family or getting to spend time with like for me, it's gonna spend time with my niece and nephew. It's or just friends. Like it was all bargained against. How far are we in the book and it's so nice to have that behind us.
Speaker 2: So nice because I'm taking off, I was gonna say, so what we're gonna do is I'm headed to the vineyard for the, for the annual family trip. I am ready there after this podcast. It's it's shopping and packing and I'm out the door,
Speaker 2: so I'm really excited. I know you've got projects at home, you're excited to finally get back to and hanging out with the fam on a more regular schedule.
Speaker 1: Again, it will be nice. Although I'll confess you talk about this weight being lifted.
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like I'm still swimming my way out of it. My my brain is still very full right now. Pretty much anything I think about. I'm relating back to something that we've been working on the book in the book. In my mind, it's oh this is like that or this is like that or this would be part of chapter four.
Speaker 2: Isn't that just a sign that the book crosses over into so many parts of life like that? The topics are applicable.
Speaker 1: One would hope one would
Speaker 2: hope
Speaker 2: well I want to say thank you to you cousin. This was a really good process. We got through it, we did it as a team and that's a that's a team of two and I really appreciate all of the work that you put into it to make it all the easier throughout this.
Speaker 1: Well, you're both welcome. Thank you for that thought. And
Speaker 1: in some ways I feel like we should include are awesome etiquette audience in that they've been right here with us
Speaker 1: and everybody listening to this has been a regular listener, has listened to several intros at this point where we process our editing work and
Speaker 1: the audience for awesome etiquette has been a source of inspiration for us. And I definitely feel like the people that listen to this show have been along for the ride and have a view into the creation of this book and have been a part of the creation of this book. And a really exciting thing for me is the thought of sharing that book with this audience at some point in the not too distant future.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping that people will read sections of the book and remember questions that they've heard that might have inspired some of the advice there or that is very similar advice. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine this audience wouldn't see a lot of themselves in this book.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh well speaking of our audience, do you think that we should get to some audience questions today?
Speaker 1: I think that is a great idea. Let's do it
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette. Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 2: Our first question is titled tipping for large events. Hello. Wonderful,
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette. Friends. Thank you so much for your amazing show. I've been a listener since the dinner party download days and so appreciate your modern helpful advice. I hope you can help me with my current situation.
Speaker 1: I am hosting a celebration of life event for my mother and I'm trying to figure out the proper amounts of tips for the various attendance we have hired.
Speaker 1: This event will be at a rented venue where an events manager has helped me coordinate my caterer and a navy person who is coming in to run a slide show and also ensure the smooth playing of music and audio for the service.
Speaker 1: We will have a catering staff of five servers for approximately 70 to 80 guests. We plan to tip the servers 20% but how do we determine what? 20% is.
Speaker 1: Also, once we determine the amount per server, is it okay to give individual envelopes to the owner of the catering company for him to distribute to his employees?
Speaker 1: To clarify this is not a sit down dinner but a buffet style lunch in. However, the servers are also going to pass a single welcome appetizer and distribute eyes drinks as well as guide and usher our guests from the area of the room where the memorial will take place over to the area where the luncheon will take place.
Speaker 1: They will then monitor and assist with the serving of the food.
Speaker 1: We also plan to tip our A. V. Guy and since I know his rate, it'll be easy to figure out the 20%.
Speaker 1: I'm a little confused what to tip the events manager. She has helped a lot with the venue, answering questions and coordinating our vendors.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she will also be helpful on the day of,
Speaker 1: I tend to feel like maybe an even $100 is probably appropriate, but I'm not sure if there's something I should be basing this total on.
Speaker 1: Thanks once again for your wonderful show, sincerely anonymous
Speaker 2: anonymous. Thank you so much for the question. We're sorry to hear about your mother, but it sounds like this will be a wonderful way to celebrate her life.
Speaker 2: Typically when it comes to large events, you're right. We think about tipping people like the caterer and the musicians, other
Speaker 2: vendors. We don't always tip. It's kind of a not one size fits all type situation
Speaker 2: and because you've got this event planner that you've been working with, who's been doing such a good job or event coordinator, I would actually talk to them about the tipping, especially in the case of the caterer where you don't know your at least I'm hearing that you don't know what the bill is or how you're going to determine that 20%.
Speaker 2: Usually it's your, it's 20% of the catering bill
Speaker 2: and so, and it can be included in the catering contract. So another reason why it would be really, really good to ask the events coordinator that you've been working with, whether or not these tips are already included, if they're not,
Speaker 2: what you could do to find out how much that 20% is, it should be very easy for them to figure it out,
Speaker 1: lizzie post. That is such a good idea, you've got this really good event manager who you're
Speaker 1: thinking of as a really great event manager, that is exactly the kind of thing you can lean on the floor, it hadn't occurred to me and it's
Speaker 1: exactly the right advice.
Speaker 2: So glad the other thing is and this might sound a little bit more awkward but typically you don't tip a wedding event coordinator, they have a set fee that they work with and that's what they do and often they are really grateful to receive things like reviews, recommendations, testimonials, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But you can always ask if you're feeling really inspired and
Speaker 2: it's okay to not lean into this, it's okay to lean into this. But if you want to ask whether or not they accept tips, that's always an appropriate way to go if you're thinking this is someone who just really went above and beyond. But typically that coordinator position is one where they have a set fee and you don't tip on top of that.
Speaker 1: I'm curious lizzie, would you think of the A. V. Guy because he's handling
Speaker 1: sound as well as some other stuff is maybe equivalent to a DJ or musician. Is that a parallel to draw in your mind in
Speaker 2: this case? I think it's a really good question to ask. And again, I love that we have this coordinator that will get to go to and find out whether that's typical um at this particular venue. But I think that because he is going to be monitoring the music throughout, it does kind of tip more into the category of that musician or DJ who would traditionally receive a tip. So I think in this case the A. V. Person is a really, really good one to be thinking about. And again, asking, asking the coordinator the question
Speaker 1: anonymous. It sounds like you are planning a lovely event and that you're
Speaker 1: thinking things through in a way that should leave all of the people that are helping you coordinate it feeling good as well.
Speaker 1: We hope that our answer helps and that everything goes smoothly.
Speaker 1: One of your principal obligation
Speaker 1: is to systematize your saving
Speaker 1: so that when you see something you really need
Speaker 1: or very much one
Speaker 1: you won't have to beg dad for it or borrow on next week's allowance.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 1: our next question is about a hurried host.
Speaker 2: Hi lizzie and dan, I just listened to your party prep post countdown postscript segment as presented in the most recent episode of your podcast. I'm a type a organized and timeline driven person and love to hear
Speaker 2: that there are other people out there that rely on practical organization and good timing to throw a successful party
Speaker 2: about once a month. We have a party and I always have a mental timeline that helps me feel in control of the situation and ensure that my guests have the best time possible. Last month we had my husband's family over for my father in law's birthday party. They're lovely people and we usually don't have any issues when we host them. However, this time,
Speaker 2: my brother in law and his family arrived a full hour and a half early.
Speaker 2: I was in the middle of finishing up the party meal prep and hadn't gotten myself ready or changed into my party outfit, nor had I, nor had I had, nor had I had the 15 to 20 minutes just before the planned start time to unwind, have a drink and prepare myself to host.
Speaker 2: There wasn't any confusion over the start time of the party. They were just in the area and thought they'd stopped by early, needless to say my schedule was thrown out of whack.
Speaker 2: I had to host and entertain before I was ready and felt rushed and scrambled for the party. I also had to awkwardly leave them to their own devices in my house for about 20 minutes as I had a shower and changed while my husband put the finishing touches on the meal we were preparing in our very small kitchen. I feel like a bad host.
Speaker 2: Do you have any suggestions on how to ensure people don't show up
Speaker 2: way before the party is to start? Or do I need to be more flexible and coming up with a plan B, just in case this kind of thing happens. Perhaps I need to chill out and go with the flow when unexpected events like this happened. I would greatly appreciate your advice. Thanks, hurried host. Oh, hurried
Speaker 1: host. This is
Speaker 1: not an unheard of situation.
Speaker 1: You
Speaker 2: know, like this happens. People show up early. It's like it's not unheard of. They don't show up an hour and a half early usually. But it's it's again not unheard of, it really
Speaker 1: isn't. And sometimes the culprits for those smaller infractions, those 10, 15 minutes earlier actions
Speaker 1: are the etiquette aficionados. The people that are really focused on being on time or even being a little early with the thinking being, oh, if I'm not early, I'm late
Speaker 1: but really on time is on time early isn't necessarily on
Speaker 2: time. I am because I am very glad you just said that because I think that particular thinking applies more towards things like appointments, interviews, stuff like that. Where if you were late it would be incredibly problematic. A social gathering, like a family birthday.
Speaker 2: If you're going to be very late could be problematic. But if you're only going to be like five minutes 10 minutes late, that's still within your grace period, your arrival time as we tend to think of it as and so you don't need to for social engagements
Speaker 2: apply that if you're not what if you're not earlier late uh Mentality to it.
Speaker 1: So this is more than that and and that allowing for that is one of the
Speaker 1: the sort of logics behind giving yourself that cushion as a host because it does happen.
Speaker 1: But
Speaker 1: we're talking about a much a much more extreme example. Yes, I'm curious. How do you feel are hurried host? Did
Speaker 2: I think our hurried hosted an excellent job welcoming people in explaining where you're at with the getting ready
Speaker 2: that you weren't prepared to be hosting guests now. So please pardon my lack of being able to be a host. I'm going to go shower,
Speaker 2: husband is in the kitchen finishing dinner. Uh You know all all of that I think is the best you can do with the moment at hand. I don't think that I would ever turn someone away.
Speaker 2: But boy, I would be hoping that when they realize they've walked into my house and I am still very much so in getting the party prepped, the, you know, the decor, the meal myself ready. That they would say, hey, is there anything we could do to help or be, would it be helpful if we just left and did something else for another hour and a half?
Speaker 2: If a guest is that early as a guest have those kinds of thoughts in mind. You might not realize you were early if you got the time wrong. But as soon as you discover that your host is in this state of still very much so prepping
Speaker 2: offer to excuse yourself and not end up
Speaker 2: being in the mix while your host is still trying to get ready for this event.
Speaker 1: I had a very similar thought. I was thinking about the
Speaker 1: example of an unexpected guest showing up for a meal. You're you're not expected to be able to materialize extra food out of thin air, but you are expected to divvy up, do the best you can share what you do have available because you're dealing with a
Speaker 1: unanticipated ble rudeness. You're only on the hook. Your only obligation is to do the best you can and not be rude or mean in the process. So as you said, as long as you don't send them away
Speaker 1: or get angry at them. I don't think that your duties as a party host kick in at that particular moment just because they're early to a party they've been invited to
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: I was also hoping that your guests would notice exactly what you're describing, that they're arriving that early created a situation where it wasn't perfect for everybody you were still in the middle of things they were interrupting.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 1: the expectation for them is then to be as minimal a burden as possible. And certainly not to start judging your hosting skills an hour, hour and a half ahead of time.
Speaker 2: No, definitely not
Speaker 2: because this was definitely super early. I mean an hour and a half is nowhere near a grace period, but a lot of the time someone can miss it. They think that a dinner starts at seven instead of 7 30 or something like that or six instead of 6 30 they show up in that half hour where you're probably still getting ready. And I have to tell you, I have many memories as a child of my mother with her, her rolling brush and her hair hairdryer, like still all in place, you know, like half a half a slip in a towel on, you know, shouting, oh my gosh, come in, I can't come greet you at the door, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: And then she, you know, she makes the excuse for herself, which is perfectly appropriate since this has been sprung on her in the moment. Um, either she would send us kids down if we were home or she would call something like that or my dad would be able to entertain as best he could. But you kind of do what you can in the minute, get everyone a glass of water.
Speaker 2: Um, invite them to take a seat or two. You know, enjoy the yard if you have one
Speaker 2: and then excuse yourself, say I've got to go finish getting ready. I apologize that I can't be down here with you and then go get ready and then come down as soon as you're ready, it's perfectly fine for you to be doing all the last minute touches that you need to do.
Speaker 2: Um you shouldn't have to feel like all of a sudden you're a bad host because your attention is divided
Speaker 2: because I want
Speaker 1: to take this advice and even extend it out a little bit. I think that what you're describing is the only contingency plan that you would need. You're not on the hook for having a strategy in place for if people show up an hour and a half early. I don't think that is a reasonable expectation on anyone to be part of
Speaker 1: standard party planning.
Speaker 2: I completely agree. Good, very good. That is a very good point to end this on well.
Speaker 1: And I'm also thinking about the desire to prevent something like this from happening again in the future and I'm wondering if it would be okay to mention this to the guests and
Speaker 1: I couldn't come up with a good sample script for instance, number one. No,
Speaker 2: I am. So with you because I was thinking like, so do you tease him about it on their way out or the next time you invite? And I was just like, nope, a gracious host, wouldn't they don't need to, there's no need to, but what would you do if it was someone who
Speaker 2: is repeatedly doing this and it's not just like a once off or mistake? You know, it's like, no, no, no, we're just around earlier were out and about and this is like more than more than 22 times that this has happened
Speaker 1: the second or third time that I experienced something like this. I would think about
Speaker 1: making a mention of it
Speaker 1: ahead of the next event,
Speaker 1: so I wouldn't bring it up as a comment on something that happened previously, but if it was starting to show up as a pattern of behavior, I would make a part of my request. Not part of my invitation, but part of my host guest dance communication for the next event,
Speaker 1: asking for a period of time before the party or maybe mentioning specifically that you won't be available for a period of time before the party so that they can really
Speaker 1: firmly coordinate their visit at the arrival time that you've invited them for
Speaker 2: hurried host. We certainly hope that our advice helps you sound like a fantastic host. Count us in the camp of people who would love to be invited so. Oh my gosh! We just invited ourselves dan. I'm so sorry I didn't mean to do that. Tisk, tisk, tisk.
Speaker 2: We are bad, We are bad but hurried host. You sound like an excellent host.
Speaker 2: And we hope that the next party, you've got all your prep time to
Speaker 1: yourself. And when you're invited to a party, practice the skills of a good guest, be on time ready for fun, take part in the park, help everyone around you to have a good time.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled When to Sing. We have a big debate every time someone in our family has a birthday. So it would be great if you can settle it for us,
Speaker 1: which is proper etiquette singing happy birthday before you blow out the candles or singing happy birthday after you blow out the candles Thank you amy.
Speaker 2: Um I know what we do in my family but amy, I fear we're not going to be able to totally solve this from an etiquette rule perspective dan am I right? Are there etiquette rules about happy birthday? You sing more happy birthdays than I do?
Speaker 1: There are definitely etiquette rules about birthday, what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm going to make them right now. Absolutely sing happy birthday before the cake is presented or wall, the cake is brought out.
Speaker 2: I mean that's what we do in my house. But is it, is it universal? Is that like, is it big enough that we can say that's the etiquette of
Speaker 2: happy birthday cakes and blowing candles out
Speaker 1: at the risk of contributing to familial discord? I will say yes,
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Amy, you've gotten us to take decisive stands. I am now very curious what the rest of our audience is going to say about singing Happy Birthday and blowing out the candles. We would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: Okay, but before we leave, I have to mention that
Speaker 1: for me this is such a particular picture in my mind and I'm I'm I'm joking with my sort of definitive response. There's absolutely an etiquette rule we couldn't tell. But to me it is like a very clear picture in my mind that the cake is brought out and presented with lit candles on it in perfect situations you can, it's even a little bit yes.
Speaker 1: Um the
Speaker 2: girls in the same
Speaker 1: family singing happens as that cake is presented and there's even this this wonderful moment that I
Speaker 1: look forward to and enjoy sharing with Children and adults when the cake is presented in the conclusion of the happy birthday song happens and maybe somebody's yelling, uh many more or if it's a kid's birthday and you do these little like rhymes about how many
Speaker 1: times you are years old or there might be someone at the table who says something like make a wish and
Speaker 1: as the final strains or chords of happy birthday start to die down,
Speaker 1: the candles are blown out and in the silence that wish just hangs in the air
Speaker 2: and then everybody that's poetic. But in my family we don't have very many like much silence happening right after the candle, big numbers. That's what happens as soon as the candles all get blown out.
Speaker 1: Like you though, I would love to hear
Speaker 1: what the picture is, what the images of the singing after
Speaker 1: and how that functions. And I now as I'm starting to try to imagine it myself, I'm thinking I could see ways that would feel good but I've never experienced it and I'd love to hear how that works.
Speaker 2: Amy thank you so much for this question.
Speaker 1: Nation joins those present in best birthday wishes or distinguished elder statesman.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Our next question is titled parking problems
Speaker 2: Dear lizzie and dan. We recently moved and have gotten to know our new neighbors in our friendly community. However, one of our next door neighbors parks her car directly in front of our house.
Speaker 2: We share property line and she has tons of space in front of her house to park.
Speaker 2: How could I bring up the conversation as a new neighbor? She is extremely sweet and we've met her a few times,
Speaker 2: it's a public road, so she's technically not doing anything wrong. But every time we look out of our front windows, her car is parked there.
Speaker 2: This is just a minor annoyance, but it seems silly as she has face in front of her own home,
Speaker 2: but parks over the property line and in front of our home.
Speaker 2: Any sample script would be extremely helpful, sincerely obstructed view,
Speaker 1: obstructed view. Thank you so much for the question and pardon the digression, but I have to tell a little personal story. The house that I live in is at the end of a town road and there's a turnaround at the end of our road for the town plows to turn around and
Speaker 1: go back down. It's a very tempting place to park for people who like to access the woods in the wilderness up behind our house.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 1: it's just a little awkward because even though it's a public road, it's essentially parking in our driveway
Speaker 2: just to jump in and clarify for the audience here as a third party member. It so much looks like it is dan's driveway or the parking area for his house that I mistakenly park there regularly
Speaker 2: and I've known this property for years and years and years and years
Speaker 1: and you would be most welcome to do so because you're a guest and it's really nice to have that extra area, particularly when it's summertime and the trucks aren't turning around, they're available. The previous owners of this house had put up a sign that says no parking town turn around
Speaker 1: and it kind of looks like an official sign but it is not an official sign, but it seems to do the trick,
Speaker 2: but it gets at the idea that we don't, you know, if if cars aren't supposed to be there, they're not really attached to our house, it can feel awkward when they are parked right in front of our homes. And so I I understand obstructed views annoyance, especially when they're
Speaker 2: is a parking option in front of their neighbors own home. If there wasn't, I think obstructive, you wouldn't even be writing in.
Speaker 2: But there is. So the question is why isn't the neighbor using it?
Speaker 1: And that question is for me, the most natural sample script to raise this with your neighbor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so. I think that a questioning attitude or spirit
Speaker 1: and script would be
Speaker 1: the softest approach to raise something. That's a genuine question for you.
Speaker 1: You're not going to present it as a problem or ask her to change your behavior right away without figuring out why it's happening. And I think that's a natural place to start.
Speaker 1: I would also look for a time when there is another discussion going on. I would look for a natural moment of opportunity with this person who you're developing a friendly relationship with. And it sounds like those opportunities are if not abundant, that they will present themselves. And I'm getting that from the description of this relationship is friendly
Speaker 1: without making it a particular problem. That's the main point of the communication
Speaker 1: by looking for that natural time to talk about it. You don't bring the emphasis to the problem but you really keep the emphasis on good neighbor relationships and
Speaker 1: easy solutions, the exchange of information, communication and that's where you want to keep this friendly neighbor relationship. It's also possible that you might discover their reasons why she's parking there.
Speaker 2: Ah This does happen from time to time.
Speaker 1: I was trying to imagine a couple different things. I definitely know people that
Speaker 1: maybe you don't park on the side of the house but park in the front because they go in the front door. So it might just be a question of access that you park the easiest place for you to get
Speaker 1: into your house with your groceries or. Yeah,
Speaker 1: another possibility that occurred to me as trees. Sometimes people don't like to park under certain trees. Either they drop pollen or fruit or little animals live in them
Speaker 1: and
Speaker 1: it might look like that spot is just the same as that spot. But it's the difference between having to wash your car every couple of weeks or not.
Speaker 1: And it's entirely possible. There's something like that going on that just makes it that much easier for you to understand what's happening when you look out your window and see a car
Speaker 1: parked on the street pretty regularly in front of your house.
Speaker 2: Because it could be a very dramatic and theatrical reason. Like she's actually a secret spy and she can't park her car in front of her house. But then it probably wouldn't be in the same spot.
Speaker 1: No, I'm teasing. I think it's also a pretty natural possibility that it's
Speaker 1: so easy to park another 10 ft
Speaker 1: further forward than the second that you mentioned it. You start noticing that it's corrected. Yeah,
Speaker 2: very well, could be very well, could be I'm a big fan of just dealing with things and asking questions and I find that a friendly tone, a curious nature and a very much so a willingness to just let it go if it doesn't go your way, will will go long in neighbor relationships.
Speaker 2: But there was one part of me that questioned whether or not just parking boy. I know, but there is, there is one question that started to formulate in my mind and I was wondering if maybe you just start parking your own car there in front of your own house and if that like, you know, just solves the problem because
Speaker 2: then she sees that your parking your car there and she parked her car in front of her own house or maybe two doors down if this is like their thing, you
Speaker 1: know, post that is such a
Speaker 1: practical solution,
Speaker 2: it's a little, it's like probably considered passive aggressive, but you know,
Speaker 2: I'm just throwing things out there
Speaker 1: obstructive. You were happy to hear that you're developing good relationships with your neighbors and hope that this particular issue doesn't become a hiccup whatever direction you decide to take with it
Speaker 1: stepping out of a car into the traffic side of the street without looking carefully is another version of the same game. Yet as drivers, we unconsciously do this when we park our car and change from the role of driver to that of pedestrian. It is a strange paradox that one moment where the driver cursing the careless pedestrians,
Speaker 1: the next moment where the pedestrian cursing the careless driver,
Speaker 1: thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post inst
Speaker 1: on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette.
Speaker 1: Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your posts so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 2: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads, free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content, plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you for your support.
Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover. And today we have feedback from Aria Benjamin on episode 3 52 on helping workers with their workload.
Speaker 1: Today we have feedback from Aria on episode 3 52 on helping co workers with their workload.
Speaker 1: Hello lizzie and dan. I'm a longtime listener and I've written in on a number of occasions through facebook. You to have helped me both so many times and in no bigger way than helping me to understand more perspectives than I was able to find on my own.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm writing about the first question you tackled on episode 3 52 about dealing with a co worker who doesn't accomplish as much at work asking for help.
Speaker 1: There may be a perspective here that hasn't been considered
Speaker 1: unless there's some bigger problem we're not privy to. It seems to me that when a teammate asks for help, the correct response is to help in any reasonable way.
Speaker 1: Certainly you can't let that bring you to a place where you're burning out or making yourself miserable. But to the limit of your resources, you should always be helping the team
Speaker 1: going to the supervisor even with the best prepared script to avoid problems isn't a way to accomplish more as a team
Speaker 1: outside of specific reasons for things like security, no supervisor is ever going to object to a team member helping another with their abilities.
Speaker 1: If you can't reasonably help be honest and say so
Speaker 1: that's when you might suggest going to a supervisor.
Speaker 1: If you can help, just do it.
Speaker 1: If you start to feel someone is taking advantage of you keep helping. Sometimes that will work in the short term. But the long game is always being the most helpful team member. You can be
Speaker 1: your co workers and superiors will always eventually see through the guise of people trying to take credit and will recognize the value of those who get things done.
Speaker 1: Maybe not immediately, but inevitably
Speaker 1: the trick is you do the work because you are working towards the same goal
Speaker 1: if you're doing the work because you want to advance, everyone will see that too,
Speaker 1: align your goals with the team and you'll benefit with the team, align yourself badly and you'll find problems. Aria
Speaker 2: aria, thank you so much. That is a great reminder to, to pitch in and help when you can and I really appreciate you emphasizing that part of it so that a team approach is less based on
Speaker 2: what's my share, what's your fair share and more on how are we going to get this all done today? I can definitely say that that has been the mentality around Emily Post lately. Is that how could we all pitch in and get this done as fast as possible? It's a great reminder.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the feedback
Speaker 1: and thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your next piece of feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463
Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we wanted to drum roll. Please
Speaker 2: give
Speaker 1: you a sample read from our 20th edition of Emily Post's etiquette.
Speaker 1: It won't be a perfect quote. There are still edits that could happen but we wanted to share it with you in its current form.
Speaker 2: One of the things that dan and I had the most fun within this edition was bringing back characters to this book.
Speaker 2: Um Emily's original 1922 edition and many of the early, I would say thirties, forties, fifties editions had these wonderful characters in the misses three and one being a famous one,
Speaker 2: Mr club window. The Once Werder's, the new, the new Mr and mrs newlywed Mr mrs kind heart, the buildings, the world leaves the learnings.
Speaker 2: They're just all these different characters throughout the book. And we wanted to bring a little bit of that back, but also make it a little bit more applicable to today. So
Speaker 2: we thought it would be really fun audience to introduce you to our good host and good guest characters from the 20th edition. Mr He's a good host and mix, always a good guest,
Speaker 2: a good host.
Speaker 2: Mr he's a good host, creates comfortable and entertaining experiences for his guests.
Speaker 2: These are two sweetly simple goals to achieve.
Speaker 2: He is also enthusiastic about hosting. He isn't over the top, but his friends and family can tell that he is thrilled they came and that he really prepared for their visit.
Speaker 2: This is not burdensome or anxiety inducing, it's fun.
Speaker 2: Maybe not the cleaning ahead of time or having to track down RSVPs but Mr good host generally wants to be a host, he does his best to reasonably accommodate his guests when able like providing a wifi password or accommodating a dietary restriction.
Speaker 2: He's also smart about his smart speaker and turns off reminders and alerts so they don't blare out during the party.
Speaker 2: He knows how to redirect his guests when necessary and is comfortable saying no to what he cannot accommodate
Speaker 2: with a strong sense of what he's comfortable providing and what his guests enjoy. Mr good host is the kind of host whom people always want to say yes to and if they can't say yes they are always hoping for a rain check.
Speaker 2: We might not all be great at throwing large or intricate gatherings but everyone has it in them to be a good host.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 1: shall we? A pair are good host with Mix Loaeza, Good guest,
Speaker 2: I think we shall, I think we shall. A good guest Mix. Always a good guest, is a hosts dream. They respond promptly to invitations, whether casual or formal when appropriate. They always offer to bring something, they show up on time with anything they had promised to bring
Speaker 2: and without anything extra. That would be an imposition. Mixed good guest is adept at participating during any gathering, talking with other guests, Oohing and awing over gifts open, joining,
Speaker 2: joining appropriately in any entertainment. They never take advantage of or try to stretch a hosts. Generosity. Mixed good guest knows to offer help at casual and informal events and will happily return to enjoying the party if their offer is declined,
Speaker 2: they always complement the host on whatever is going well or is excellently done.
Speaker 2: Mixed good guest senses when the party is winding down and does not depart a moment before,
Speaker 2: when the time does come, they head to the door and thank their host for a most wonderful time. They are a dream to entertain
Speaker 1: and the host guest dance goes on
Speaker 2: and the host guest dance goes on. Really? I'm sorry to interrupt because
Speaker 1: it could be easy to hear you read. Mr he's a good host and not know that it's spelled
Speaker 1: Mr
Speaker 1: H E Z A
Speaker 2: like his name is. He's a the way Yeah. The way Emily would have her characters have names that were close but not quite like
Speaker 1: it should theoretically take the reader just a little bit of work, but not too much to understand the characters that are being presented
Speaker 2: totally. Mix always A A L W A Y S A good guess I was. I love that one. I love how Loaeza runs off the runs off the tongue when it should be always a good guest. Sorry, I just laughed at my own joke. That was terrible. And
Speaker 1: I want to welcome our audience to the process because I can't help looking at these names and say boy, you know we did a good job with the first names but we just couldn't figure out how to do good host or good guest as phonetic mimics are
Speaker 2: No, we didn't, we didn't. There are other ones where you know, it's like I think we have a mrs five oclock somewhere
Speaker 2: and I think her name is like five oh and then the clock is like C L O Q U E and and a dash hyphenated last name was somewhere.
Speaker 2: Some of them you know you you can't you can't cloak every single every single part of it. But um it was certainly fun coming up with these. I loved getting to use them as a way to illustrate good behavior. Um, there are some very funny characters that illustrate bad behavior.
Speaker 2: It was a fun part of this book that made it different from
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the etiquette books you and I have actually been a part of reading. In fact, I don't think we've we've included these in any other books.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's a direct throwback to Emily's original the 22 edition where she had these characters. And I think it would also be
Speaker 1: important to mention that the entire book isn't written in this form.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes. These
Speaker 1: are these are sort of interludes throughout what I think people would think of as
Speaker 1: more traditional etiquette book running text where we're really
Speaker 1: describing without painting the picture. A lot of the etiquette that makes up the heart of this book.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely. What was certainly fun to introduce you all to these characters. We look forward to being able to introduce you to everyone who made it into the book
Speaker 2: in 2022.
Speaker 1: Yeah,
Speaker 2: we like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing and that can come in so many forms. Today we have a salute from anonymous. Take us Away. Hi
Speaker 1: there. I'm a big fan of the show. I listen to it all the time with my family.
Speaker 1: I've never written in before, but I just witnessed a wonderful display of human kindness and immediately thought to send it in.
Speaker 1: My family and I are down at the coast for the weekend and we're heading back home.
Speaker 1: We decided to stop at the beach. My parents and little brother went to walk on it, but I don't have the right shoes, so I'm waiting in the car
Speaker 1: doors open so that I don't get heatstroke.
Speaker 1: Where we parked was next to a guy who seemed to be having some car trouble. My dad talked to him a bit and we learned that he had a bad flat tire
Speaker 1: and while he was driving to the beach, the tire fell off the bead. We offered to call someone, but he declined. After my family left, a car pulled up across the parking area and they had an air tank. They started filling up their tires. The man jokingly called out, Hey, that's what I need.
Speaker 1: The people in the car finished filling up their tires and drove over to our side. They filled up the band's tire while making pleasant conversation
Speaker 1: since it was such a bad flat. He pretty much had to leave immediately as it was leaking a ton of air.
Speaker 1: He was incredibly appreciative to the people who had helped him and they seemed very kind. Not too long after they drove away as well. I wanted to give an etiquette salute to these good Samaritans who saw a man that needed help and had the tools to do so
Speaker 1: they expected no recognition, but I saw and figured I had to say something.
Speaker 1: So thank you to the people who helped a man in need and I hope he got to a service station. Okay,
Speaker 1: anonymous, anonymous.
Speaker 2: That's such a great fly on the wall observation of a Connecticut salute. Like I love it. I love this. It wasn't, I just think it's so cool Like to be a bystander of witnessing like really great human interaction.
Speaker 1: It feels so good to watch people naturally be good to eat.
Speaker 2: Yes, no, I was just gonna say it does, it really, really, really does and that's exactly the purpose these salutes are supposed to serve
Speaker 1: anonymous. Thank you for sharing that experience with all of us.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening
Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon,
Speaker 2: please connect with us and share this show with friends, family and co workers and on social media.
Speaker 1: You can send us questions, feedback or salutes by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind, that's 8028585463
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Speaker 1: Our show is edited by Chris Albertine, an assistant produced by Bridgit Bowden. Thanks christmas
Speaker 2: trees and Bridget.
Speaker 1: Oh
Speaker 1: yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah.