Episode 362 - An Expected Answer

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social, could you see that's old fashioned,

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Speaker 1: watch how busy post

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Speaker 2: and then post to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Real friendliness.

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Speaker 2: Mhm.

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Speaker 2: Mhm

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty

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Speaker 2: on today's show, we take your questions on helmet safety, tipping at hotels, assumptions about a bride changing her last name and sending digital thank you cards for

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about giving gifts for major milestones

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Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on interviewing for a job. All that coming up

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 1: I'm lizzie post

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Speaker 2: and I'm dan post sending

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Speaker 1: because

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Speaker 2: because how's it going?

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Speaker 1: It's hot, it is going,

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Speaker 1: I've done, I feel like so little outside this week compared to normal, but I did, I did get a round of golf in with some girlfriends I know on Tuesday night, which is my first of the summer, which is unheard of. That tells you how much we were, we were attacking the book for the first two thirds of the summer, but it was really, really great to be out there.

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Speaker 1: I actually had a stellar around. I'm thinking new strategy play less, play better for me as cl around was a natural,

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like under

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Speaker 1: Under 50 on a round of nine is really good for me and so I've I've hit it multiple times this year, which is unheard of for me,

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Speaker 1: It's just like, normally I'm like a 51, like really close to breaking it, but not quite breaking it

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Speaker 1: and I'm telling you, I'm a brag, I had like 30 ft long putts with like two curves in them and they sunk, you know, for a par and it's just unbelievable. Had a birdie, I had my first birdie of the year, like, oh my gosh, like I have to get you out there

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Speaker 1: in your incredibly busy life, it was so much fun. But it also had me thinking about that delicate balance of etiquette on the golf course because you're you're playing and we, we in this particular round of golf weren't competing against each other, but my friend had been in a, in a tournament that weekend, had not played well,

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Speaker 1: they're not playing well carried through to our Tuesday night game, like it was uncharacteristic, like comically weirdly bad, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: And you are like the whole thing I

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Speaker 1: know, like I told her I was like, oh my gosh, like I've gotten all your skill, like, you know, but it it is kind of funny finding that balance between supporting someone when they're going through something frustrating,

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Speaker 1: finding the humor in it, which she's my friend is really good about, so that made it easier, kind of on the rest of the group, but

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Speaker 1: it can be really weird, you can be really frustrated out there and you always want to try to finish and that can get complicated with people. It just reminded me how much that book that my dad wrote his, his kind of pet project, his passion project,

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Speaker 1: the unwritten Rules of Golf, like just how true they really are.

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Speaker 2: It's a great book he titled it Playing through. I often thought that four would be a great title for that book. Also, all of the unwritten rules of Golf, it is a,

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Speaker 2: an example of how etiquette often functions in our life, but in a very specific and structured context

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Speaker 2: and it goes beyond the golf course. I was recently talking to some folks about installing a training and etiquette training at their country club and it's

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Speaker 2: the unwritten rules of golf and the whole culture and community around it too, if that's possible. I don't know if you encounter any of that. It sounds like definitely some with the sportsmanship questions that you're dealing with. I'm feeling really good about this. Maybe you're not feeling so good sharing this experience. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's almost like there is club etiquette, I feel like that goes on because you're in an environment where you do know quite a lot of people, but you might only be so like

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Speaker 1: socializing with a few. So for instance, that night at dinner, my three girlfriends and I had played golf together and we had around and we chose to eat together. But as you sit down in the dining room and people get up to leave their tables for the night or they come in to have dinner for the evening,

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Speaker 1: certain of us, no other people and some of us don't. And so it's, it's interesting, like you'll have these many conversations, which

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Speaker 1: in a lot of circumstances would be something dan you and I would talk about as rude because you've got one person sitting at like a table of four talking to another group of four that's walking by, but nobody's really like introducing anybody or making the whole group of part of the conversation, which is traditionally rude, but in this context, not so rude, it happens to everybody in that way all the time. And I'm not sure you would think of that as traditional club etiquette problems, you know what I mean? But they're the little ways the etiquette, especially being an etiquette author sitting there in the moment, like I'm wondering where, um, or I'm intrigued, I would say at where the etiquette and the good etiquette ends up being.

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Speaker 1: It's, it's, it's interesting, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, consider me jealous,

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Speaker 2: sorry. And I've got to do one other thing, but since you're not on the course right now, since I've got you in front of a mic and a computer. Yeah, we've got some listener questions to answer.

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Speaker 1: We do. We do. I really thought you were, I was so ready for something totally different. You had me on the line because yes,

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Speaker 1: we absolutely do have a show to get

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Speaker 2: to. Let's get to it. Let's do it

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463

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Speaker 1: or you can reach us on social media on twitter. We're at Emily Post install on instagram were at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 1: Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 1: Mhm.

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Speaker 2: Our first question this week is about help with helmets.

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Speaker 2: Hi lizzie and dan, Thanks for all of your great advice over the years.

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Speaker 2: I have a question about etiquette verse safety. My wife and I just moved into a neighborhood. We love our neighbors. People are friendly and sociable. There are lots of kids to play with our own and it's just overall great

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Speaker 2: and the issue

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Speaker 2: a number of kids in our neighborhood do not wear helmets when riding their bikes and scooters. It is a hilly neighborhood and they go fast. There is potential for major damage of one of them falls. We have a good relationship with their parents and I'm dying to say something, but it feels like a major etiquette breach to do. So

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Speaker 2: heck I'd be willing to buy helmets for all these kids if there's a way to do so successfully. Any advice, Thanks kate in north Carolina, kate

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Speaker 1: in north Carolina, I so appreciate your appreciation of safety. I'd be willing to buy helmets for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Um, it's a, it is such a good spirit to come at safety from,

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Speaker 1: but because I'm gonna take a short stab at this and then I want a real parent to step in, but I feel like, and and correct me if I'm wrong that you and I always say that safety supersedes etiquette,

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Speaker 1: but

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Speaker 1: parenting is one of those spaces where I tend to think of safety is really generic, that we all view it the same way, but I'm guessing that's, that's not always the case. And I know with parenting that there is so much effort

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Speaker 1: to respect other parents to not get involved and how other people manage your parent, their kids.

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Speaker 1: We've had listeners right in about questions when it comes to car seats and making suggestions about little things and things that people have taught them that they weren't aware of an appreciated hearing. So there's, yeah, right? Like we're getting into the zone where it's like,

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Speaker 1: okay, this is safety and that's an important thing to be considering and bringing up, but it's parenting, which is a very delicate thing.

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Speaker 1: Um, a thing where often a lot of judgment is very quickly felt even if it isn't overly intended?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it's, it's intended. Like, you know, the reality is when you see something going on and you're like, oh, red flags in my head. Like it,

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Speaker 1: it is saying like, Hey, you're not watching out, you're not doing these things. But I think the reality is

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Speaker 1: that happens a lot in our lives across the board. And I would love for us to get to a place where we receive pointers from other people's suggestions from other people, offers from help from other people without feeling so much judgment.

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Speaker 1: So it's my hope for the future as for

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Speaker 1: what kate is dealing with

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Speaker 1: my brain because immediately goes to the places of bring it up casually in conversation as you're talking with parents about kind of like neighborhood rules, saying something like boy, if you ever see my kid without without his or her their helmet on, you know, would you please please please bug them about it? Like tell them, Hey, I know your dad told me you've got to wear a helmet, go back and get your helmet before you all head out. You know, I would love any help really encouraging this behavior for my kid. Um, I'm thinking like things like that. Would you, would you ever offer to another parent?

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Speaker 1: So like do the same. Like could I be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: if I ever see an issue without her helmet, do you want me to remind her to put it on like or does that, does that cross into judgy?

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Speaker 2: No, that sounds really good to me. Okay,

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Speaker 1: okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: okay. A second set of eyes, keeping an eye on Anisha helping reminder to wear her helmet,

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Speaker 2: Ding ding ding victory and how you get there without offering the offense or accusing someone of not taking care

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Speaker 2: of their own kids. Safety is the question right? That's the big how And I think you

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Speaker 2: done a good job of defining the kind of tricky etiquette parameters that we're working within, that, commenting on other people's parenting is bad etiquette and I would even add to that the idea that you're really not supposed to discipline other people's Children. That it's one thing if you're articulating the rules and expectations for your house,

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Speaker 2: but when it comes to discipline or punishment or repercussions for not following those rules, the ideas that you leave that the adult who is really responsible for that child, that that's not a collective job in the same way.

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Speaker 2: The part of this question that I keyed on was the really good relationship with the parents and I said to myself boy, if there's a group of parents that I've got a good relationship with, its a growing good relationship, this is exactly the kind of parenting discussion that is really good to be having and

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Speaker 2: brings people closer together and makes everybody better parents and

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Speaker 2: ideally provides a safer environment for the kids

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Speaker 2: in the pursuit of that. I would start really curious. I would approach the whole situation with a question. I wonder if it's an expectation that kids are wearing helmets. I wonder if their parents are aware that they're not or whether it's ever been presented as something that is expected.

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Speaker 2: One way that you can introduce that is making that a very clear expectation with your own kids.

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Speaker 2: Another way you could do it is by asking, do you expect, are you hoping that your kids are wearing helmets when they're out and about? I've noticed

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Speaker 2: that I and then you can talk about your responses or feelings, but

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Speaker 2: it might also be that the first thing to do is ask the question and then the second thing to do is really listen because the type of answer that you get is really going to determine

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Speaker 1: what you say next,

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Speaker 2: right? How you share your perspective. I get nervous watching them or offering to help. I could help remind them when they're near our house if you could help remind

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Speaker 2: my kids when they're near your house, whatever is the appropriate follow up. But start with that curiosity and really be ready to listen and take your cues from that conversation about how far you're going to go with your suggestions, observations or sharing of your own personal feelings

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Speaker 1: dan. I love the reminder to really listen to that response and then then you're going to pivot and move on from there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. The other thought that I had has to do with the really practical reality that oftentimes, you know, the kids better than the parents. I might know a little girl who's a good friend of a niche is a daycare who I see playing with her every day when I pick her up but not know her parents that well because they dropped her off earlier and pick her up later or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: If she were over at my house, I would probably be more likely to say, hey, here's our extra helmet

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Speaker 1: helmet

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Speaker 2: And I think that in that way it might be easier sometimes to interact with the kids when you give the reminder to your Children, you can give a reminder to the other kids as long as you're not punishing them as long as it's more about

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Speaker 2: just parental supervision. There's an eye here. I think that's entirely appropriate. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that's the type of community that these folks are in. You can't, you can't know for sure not being there, but kate, it sounds like you've got a community that operates in that kind of zone

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Speaker 2: kate. I think you're genuine care and concern is really going to

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Speaker 2: serve you well in this situation. I also think that you're keen awareness of how potentially offensive or fraud this could be is going to keep you in pretty safe territory as you explore how to bring up questions of safety in ways that are reasonable and allow for people to hear them and respond to them in ways that you would want.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the question. We're so glad to hear you're enjoying the neighborhood and hope that things continue to go smoothly in your new home,

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Speaker 2: bicycling is a lot of fun,

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Speaker 2: good exercise and the fine means of transportation.

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Speaker 2: However, you must know the rules of safe riding and obey them or you will find it a very dangerous sport.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is titled cash for cleaning and we have a voice mail from Maureen.

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Speaker 1: How much do you tip the people that clean the hotel room? I assumed it was $10 a day. Um but I'm not sure thank you

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Speaker 1: because this is such an etiquette, classic

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Speaker 2: lizzie post. I was also going to say thank you Maureen. This question is such a classic and for being a classic etiquette question,

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Speaker 2: I'm often surprised at how many people aren't aware of this expectation that you leave a tip when you're staying in a hotel room for the people that clean the room. And the standard etiquette advice for this is that you leave a dollar two per person per night? So you leave your tip each day because the people who clean the room might change over the course of a stay.

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Speaker 2: So you want to do that each morning if you can. This is one of those places where there's a little extra etiquette advice of bring some cash or some uh some small

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Speaker 2: bills or small denominations so that you can tip

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Speaker 2: when you're traveling. If you're someone like me who's often just got cards in your wallet and no paper money, this is one of those times where it can be really handy to have some cash

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Speaker 2: Lizzie. I'm wondering about $10 as a target. What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people have been saying, well thank you to the person in this room. When when our question, NASCAR has start Maureen when Maureen has been leaving her $10 a day.

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Speaker 1: Um It's it's a generous tip. I think you you have what we put into our books, which is um you know, a couple of dollars per person per day. So

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Speaker 1: Um if you've got a family you might do like five or 67, maybe up to $10. It also depends a bit on how messy the room really is.

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Speaker 1: If you've got lots of takeout containers and the sheets are all a mess and there's clothing strewn everywhere and you've used every towel in the place. I mean

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Speaker 1: I think that that's probably warranted for a good $10 a day. If it's very clean, neat and tidy, there's really not much to be done except the standards and the basics, then I think you're in more of that, you know, a couple dollars per person range.

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Speaker 2: We often say these are suggested ranges but tip what you feel inspired to tip tip? What makes you feel good about

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Speaker 1: tipping?

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Speaker 1: Because I really like leaving it on that note Maureen, we hope that you are still inspired to tip $10 a day but that you don't feel obligated. Thank you so much for this etiquette classic question. They work night and day in all cities and towns and on all routes of the nation

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Speaker 1: to make life enjoyable for travelers in search of adventure or business or merely any change in the humdrum routine of living.

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Speaker 2: Mm

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Speaker 2: Our next question is about a last name Nuisance. Hi dan and lizzie, I love the podcast and hope this message finds you well, I got engaged back in May and that's, that's a yea in the email. But you get a yea from us

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Speaker 1: too

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Speaker 2: to my partner of 3.5 years. I am so excited that we are getting married and starting the next chapter of our lives together.

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Speaker 2: Here's where things get tricky. I'm not planning to change my name when we get married. This is typical in my family, my mom and her sisters never change. There's and neither did my fiancee's mother. However, since we have gotten engaged, we've received a number of congratulation cards or invitations in the mail from his extended family and friends addressed to the, his last name's the future. His last names and my least favorite. The future Mr and mrs his first and last name.

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Speaker 2: I know that when people do this it is well intentioned and a way to express excitement over our union. I also know that it genuinely may not occur to them that I wouldn't change my name.

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Speaker 2: That said, I feel it is a huge assumption to make and it makes me feel that my personhood is being erased when I'm addressed simply as misses his full name.

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Speaker 2: It is especially bothersome coming from friends and family. I jokingly tell my fiance that I can't wait to meet this mystery, misses his name, woman. And that I'm sure she'll be such a fun guest for him at these weddings.

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Speaker 2: Mm

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Speaker 2: To remedy this, I've asked my fiance to politely socialist with his immediate family that I am not changing my name to prevent miss naming in the future and hopes that they will spread the word and thankfully they are so supportive.

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Speaker 2: Beyond that. Is there any way I can respond to these invitations letting them know I will not be misses his name without being completely rude

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Speaker 2: since I know it is well intentioned. I don't want my correction to make anyone feel bad about expressing their excitement.

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Speaker 2: And is there a way to lay the groundwork leading up to our own wedding. To reduce future instances of the his last names,

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Speaker 2: whether in gifts or other references or should I simply let others express their excitement in their own way and put my discomfort aside to recognize the kind intent in the gesture.

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Speaker 2: Any advice or sample language to help me advocate for myself while still being polite would be so appreciated. Thanks for the great podcast, sincerely Miss not Missus,

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Speaker 1: Oh Miss not Missus. I'm so delighted that you've asked this question, although I am sorry that you have to ask this question,

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Speaker 1: But I'm delighted because Dan and I spent a lot of time on titles in the 20th edition that's coming out next year and it's for this very particular reason.

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Speaker 1: we have a really broad system of titles here in the United States and there were a lot of really strong traditions that even as mentalities have changed, some of the traditions have still persisted and not all mentalities have changed. Some people do like being called misses his full name, but a lot of, a lot of women really don't.

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Speaker 1: A lot of women might want the Missus but not the his full name as their name. For exactly the reasons that our MS question Askar explains is that it feels like an eraser of them as a person. I really appreciate this question and the time to explore it.

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Speaker 1: I also really want to applaud your graciousness

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Speaker 1: in really looking at the intent that people have when they put this type of wording, when they assume this type of wording. Yeah, It's, it's really kind of you to think of that, that being said. I don't think that you have to not address it. Put your own complete discomfort with it aside.

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Speaker 1: I think so many things about the stand, I'm so sorry. I feel like I'm just gonna like set me in a direction and go. But I love the fact that your fiance has already spoken with his side of the family about this and helping to spread the word. I think you could even do the same in your side if you needed to. It. It doesn't sound like it, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: there's a different tradition going in your family, which is, which is working for everybody and they would understand not to assume this. I bet

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Speaker 1: that being said beyond that measure. I was wondering dan, if I, I see no problem with this. Tell me if you see a problem with it. But putting on your wedding website was some kind of a notice that in the future or future mail may be sent to and then having your married names, You might say something like once married, we will still be and then list your name and his name and you know, you can put that in quotes so that people know that together. This is who you are as a couple. I actually think that's very helpful. It's, it's something I would like to see trend on wedding websites, the way other things have ended up treading trending like the our story or

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Speaker 1: putting what the attendants are wearing, the colors that the attendance will be wearing so that some guests don't show up in the exact same colors or outfits as the wedding attendance,

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Speaker 1: but that's like kind of knew, I don't, I haven't seen it before, but I think it could be really useful in this particular case.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea. I love the idea of putting the information. That's a little bit more information than you would want to fit on the invitation itself. The wedding website. It,

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Speaker 2: it's definitely a modern, contemporary tradition that has made so many more things possible and has made the lives of people organizing weddings and sharing this important moment a lot easier. I had one tiny adjustment to the sample script.

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Speaker 2: What if it was once married, we will be your name and his name and then by omitting the still. Now we've got a sample script that'll work for everybody. Whatever the name, construction is going to be

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Speaker 1: telling you, you might be hearing us making the decision right now on air that we want this as a wedding like

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Speaker 1: and inclusion. I think of it as something that you would, you would include on, like, a little card

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Speaker 1: with all of the enclosures on the wedding invitation, you know, or that it gets sent with the next packet of stuff that comes. I could see it being a really good thing to actually do in kind of all the formats that you you do information sharing when it comes to weddings,

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Speaker 2: there are enough choices that it would be very helpful and because there is the potential to offer a fence with some of the choices you might pick, it's really nice to think about ways to share that information. So these are great thoughts broadly. Yeah. What would you do

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Speaker 2: in our listeners situation where you're receiving the mail that's addressed incorrectly?

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Speaker 1: I think already number one has been done, which is to spread the word among the friends and family that seem to be doing this that you don't appreciate her, that you're going to be miss. So and so and mr So and so

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Speaker 1: the other thing I would do is that as I'm replying to those gifts and I might even choose to reply to some of the cards that come in just in hopes of making the point, but not hammering the point, and on the return address, I would be putting miss, so my name and mr his name

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Speaker 1: that way they could see, but this is a little bit of a gamble because because

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Speaker 1: you're not sure someone's gonna pick up on it, you know, it's not heavy. Um what I do is I like it for

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Speaker 2: that, like

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Speaker 1: what I what I wouldn't do is I wouldn't reply, like send the thing they've sent you back with an unknown recipient who is mrs so, and his name.

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Speaker 1: You know, like, I wouldn't do something like that. That's that's too far. And I don't think that that our listener Miss would do that either,

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Speaker 1: but I do think that I might talk to some folks who I had a really good relationship with if I saw them repeating the behavior beyond just the, I want to show your unionist, you know what I mean? Um if I start to see it, I also have confidence

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Speaker 1: that this is a conversation that comes up after the wedding quite a lot and that some people may get it wrong in the beginning, which is unfortunate.

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Speaker 1: Um and I wish that the folks like uh Miss who don't feel comfortable seeing their name expressed this way, didn't experience this, but I think it is really common right after the wedding for people to all of a sudden go, oh yeah, and wait, how are you, are you taking his name? Are you doing this? Like, are there any changes? What's going on? I remember asking pooch of that

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Speaker 1: after your wedding? Was like, wait a second. Are you, are you um is and and a combined last name? Did you guys hyphenate? Are you going to be a mrs? Like, it was

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Speaker 2: like, are you using one professionally socially?

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Speaker 1: Exactly

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Speaker 2: Antedate those two merging at some .4 or five years down the line. She didn't they did it. There are lots of things and it might even continue to evolve.

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Speaker 1: Exactly the other thoughts. Exactly. Exactly.

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Speaker 2: I love the very practical approach of using that return address. It's a way to make the correction without explicitly correcting someone for a first offense. I think it's a subtle and perfect response. Yeah. Yeah. And I also like your idea about following up and helping someone avoid repeat offense if it's obviously a situation where it's going to continue and they would want to know so that they could get it right

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Speaker 2: Miss. Thank you so much for the question. We hope that our answer helps and that the rest of the wedding planning goes smoothly.

00:27:38

Speaker 1: And a big thank you for inspiring what we hope to be a new trend in announcing what your married name will be.

00:27:52

Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:28:01

Speaker 1: Our next question is titled E card etiquette.

00:28:04

Speaker 1: Hello, awesome etiquette. I have a question about sending wedding gift. Thank you notes digitally

00:28:10

Speaker 1: as a southern bride. I'm almost ashamed that I am considering sending digital. Thank you notes, but I think I have a good reason to do so.

00:28:19

Speaker 1: My fiance and I have received a number of gifts from distant family, friends, parents, co workers, and other thoughtful but truly casual acquaintances with the advent of online registries that allow folks to look at our website and send gifts without adding a return address to the package.

00:28:39

Speaker 1: We don't know these gift givers addresses or phone numbers, the online platform we are using gives the option for us to send the gift giver a thank you note via email.

00:28:51

Speaker 1: But is that just downright tacky and lazy? Should I take time to try to track down the addresses of my mom's old co worker from two jobs ago? Some of these gifts have been from groups with people who live in different households.

00:29:08

Speaker 1: I think I know the right answer here, but our wedding is two months away. So I'm in the thick of it with planning and I'm already feeling overwhelmed with sending thank you's I'm truly thankful that people would even think of us to send a gift and the fact that our guest list is much smaller than we wanted due to Covid breaks my heart.

00:29:28

Speaker 1: Can an email convey how grateful I am

00:29:31

Speaker 1: a thankful but slightly frazzled bride to be Amanda.

00:29:35

Speaker 2: Hi Amanda. I love this question. I wish we could absolve you of the answer that

00:29:41

Speaker 2: I think we all know must be

00:29:43

Speaker 1: given.

00:29:45

Speaker 2: And I love that that's the way you started your question. It's just delightful because I think it's the way so many of us feel at various moments when we're aware of the social expectations that guide and govern us and how we relate to those expectations in our own minds is

00:30:04

Speaker 2: um half the fun of this podcast and half the fun for me of doing etiquette work in general.

00:30:10

Speaker 2: Yeah. So the official answer is, do your absolute best to get handwritten thank you notes in the mail to as many people as you possibly can. And I was thinking about advice that I could give. That would be more helpful because I also, I'm so appreciative of

00:30:28

Speaker 2: that frazzled bride wedding is coming feeling and there is so much to do and planning events and logistics for events is a really consuming thing. And particularly for a lot of people planning a wedding, it's their first time doing all of that and it can really be overwhelming and I don't want to undervalue the importance of that.

00:30:47

Speaker 2: So here was my suggestion.

00:30:49

Speaker 2: It's your responsibility to write the notes, but you can ask for help tracking down those addresses and figuring out how to get in touch with people. So talk to whoever your connection is. If it's the co worker of a parent ask that parents say, I really want to get a handwritten note in the mail and I don't know how to reach this person,

00:31:08

Speaker 2: they become your ally. That is not farming out the work that is getting the help that you need so that you can do the job that I think in your heart of Hearts. You know, you want to do.

00:31:19

Speaker 1: I like any phrase Vienna, I know you want to do. Um

00:31:25

Speaker 1: it is so true. We we will kind of stick hard and fast to the idea that anyone who is sending you a gift for your wedding really should be receiving that handwritten thank you note from you and your partner.

00:31:37

Speaker 1: However, there's also something that might help. I love dan's idea about having assistants tracking down the addresses because that, I mean that's something I feel like I would almost do automatically anyway, even if I wasn't frazzled. But I also just want to put the reminder out there that you've got time to send notes after the wedding

00:31:57

Speaker 1: that it's okay for you to wait. Um and and to send it for a little bit when you're not quite so fast. Well two months before the wedding, I think it would be pretty incredible for you to get any handwritten notes out within this technical time period. I also think that

00:32:13

Speaker 1: we often feel frazzled but we have more time than we think. And so if there are ways that you could say okay after dinner, I'm gonna work on just one of these notes and and to to kind of take it down from a list of maybe 20 people to I at least can get this one out the door today. You know like I I called mom, I got that address, I'm doing this one or even just

00:32:37

Speaker 1: I got the address today that moves the whole project forward one little notch. Where

00:32:42

Speaker 2: were you when I was writing my wedding? Thank you. I was

00:32:44

Speaker 1: right here

00:32:47

Speaker 1: not offering to help you. That

00:32:50

Speaker 2: Feels So manageable. That that's really good advice. I like that idea because 20, thank you notes can feel like a lot. It really

00:32:57

Speaker 1: feels like way too much. I would sit on the couch with a glass of wine instead of I do any thank you notes. Right.

00:33:03

Speaker 1: What if I told myself, all I have to do is find these two addresses tonight or all I've got to do is write the actual note tomorrow. I will find the address. It's Elizabeth Howell who used to work at the Emily Post Institute as our pr person. She always had the analogy of moving pebbles to move mountains.

00:33:22

Speaker 1: The way you move a mountain is pebble by pebble stone by stone.

00:33:26

Speaker 1: And that stuck with me for years of just anything you do on something bigger. That has to be done is a movement towards getting it done.

00:33:37

Speaker 1: That also might be the consoling voice of a lifelong procrastinator, but it was really helpful to me to feel like even when I didn't have the energy to tackle something, I could tackle part of something and that made a difference, pushing pebbles, pushing pebbles moving bells

00:33:54

Speaker 1: Amanda. We hope that these next two months goes smoothly and that you have a fantastic wedding, even if it's a smaller group than you wish you could have. We hope that it is everything and that you truly feel married at the end of it and then you can get to those Thank you notes.

00:34:12

Speaker 2: There's a lot to think and talk about on the subject of manners and many good reasons to ask our manners important.

00:34:34

Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette.

00:34:56

Speaker 2: Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:35:05

Speaker 2: Mhm.

00:35:11

Speaker 1: If you enjoy awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air

00:35:28

Speaker 1: and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you for your support.

00:35:33

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover and today we have feedback from Chelsea and Alison about communal laundry room etiquette.

00:35:44

Speaker 1: Oh, good, good, good, good, good. Hi

00:35:47

Speaker 2: lizzie and dan, I'm so excited to be writing into y'all. I'm so excited to be writing to y'all I've been listening for years and always learned so much, I never thought I would have something to contribute.

00:35:58

Speaker 2: But the most recent episode of the podcast, 361, there was a question about moving someone else's laundry in a communal laundry space.

00:36:05

Speaker 2: I live in a medium sized apartment building, but we only have four washers and four dryers for the whole building to use. So promptness in the laundry room is a must. I try to make sure I collect the laundry as soon as it's done, but sometimes that just doesn't happen. What I like to do is always leave my laundry basket on top of the dryer I'm using

00:36:24

Speaker 2: so that in the event someone needs to use it before I make it back. They can put it in the laundry basket instead of piled on top of the dryer.

00:36:31

Speaker 2: In my experience, people feel more comfortable doing this because it feels less like an invasion of privacy and there's less of a risk of some pieces of clothing falling off and getting lost. I hope this helps thanks so much for your amazing podcast. It makes my long drives so much better. Best Chelsea

00:36:48

Speaker 1: Chelsea. I love it. I love this is why we said we want people to write in. There's gonna be some good ideas coming.

00:36:56

Speaker 1: The laundry basket definitely does make it feel easier to like, oh, here, I put it in your basket for you rather than piled it over there.

00:37:05

Speaker 1: Our next piece of feedback comes via Patreon.

00:37:09

Speaker 1: I have a confession to make when I saw a communal laundry etiquette, I jumped to that question. This has been my life for years. I give a 5 to 10 minute grace period. I had such guilt over this in my earlier years. But the considerate thing to do

00:37:29

Speaker 1: is keep an eye on the clock or set a timer and remove your clothing promptly after the load is done.

00:37:36

Speaker 1: We do have three of each machine, so sometimes a person being forgetful or inconsiderate doesn't matter. But if all the machines are in use and you forget or neglect your laundry, it's getting moved. That's the reality of using a communal laundry room. Allison, I

00:37:56

Speaker 2: don't

00:37:56

Speaker 2: quite want to call the communal laundry room pizza topping question, but it's close, it's close we got more feedback quicker on this question than we usually do on this show. Thank you Alison. Thank you Chelsea for the feedback. We really appreciate it.

00:38:13

Speaker 1: Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming.

00:38:18

Speaker 1: You can send your feedback or update. Two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463.

00:38:32

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:38:36

Speaker 2: it's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to talk about job interviews and tips for navigating them. Well because

00:38:46

Speaker 1: with so many jobs available right now and lots of people choosing to switch careers or change things up.

00:38:54

Speaker 1: I figured that a good brush up on job interview tips is, is kind of timely and might, might be helpful for some of those in the audience.

00:39:01

Speaker 2: Let's hope. Let's hope.

00:39:02

Speaker 1: Well speaking of timely, the very first tip on our list.

00:39:07

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:39:08

Speaker 1: right? You like that is to be on time and this is, this is so key. This is the like

00:39:14

Speaker 1: um, what's that old phrase where it's like if you're on time you're late and I feel like a job interview, that's that's the phrase you want in your head as you're thinking about getting to the interview.

00:39:24

Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a time not to give yourself a lot of excuses and definitely it's a time not to show up late.

00:39:30

Speaker 2: My question is what's too early for a job interview.

00:39:34

Speaker 1: Yeah, about 10 minutes is the range that you want to be in. If you get there, if you planned really, really well and you padded lots of time in case there was traffic or subway issues or the bus was slow or something like that. I think that it's a good idea to just circle the block, go have a coffee somewhere. A t somewhere,

00:39:53

Speaker 1: go for a little walk, a little stroll, get your head together. Think about what I like that. Maybe maybe you do some yoga moves and stretches,

00:40:01

Speaker 1: But I think you want to really try to not be entering the facility that you're interviewing at more than that 10 minutes that you just mentioned. I think

00:40:11

Speaker 2: of it like a dinner party. You don't want to end up so excited. You end up a burden on your host. True, true, true. I'm also thinking about preparing for that interview and oftentimes the question comes around what should I wear and whether it's a virtual interview or an in person interview, taking some pride in your appearance, paying attention to how you present yourself is something that's going to read no matter what the circumstance or situation and no matter what the job is,

00:40:40

Speaker 2: If there's any question about what level of attire is appropriate, you can always ask, you can ask what people are wearing to the interview, what people usually wear daily at the office or on that job.

00:40:53

Speaker 2: Another thing to think about is maybe matching the level of a tire that you expect from the person interviewing you.

00:41:00

Speaker 2: It's not a perfect answer every time, but often times the person interviewing you for a position is someone who's

00:41:07

Speaker 2: one level above that position in an organization or one level up and

00:41:12

Speaker 2: using them as a standard to identify what one level up for you might look like is not a bad place to start. Often

00:41:20

Speaker 1: I always really love that tip.

00:41:23

Speaker 1: Another thing you can do to be prepared for your interview is to actually bring three copies of your resume and to spend a little time making sure that your linked in profile is up to date

00:41:36

Speaker 1: having those three copies might sound excessive but the reality is you might be interviewing with more than one person and we've always suggested that you have that physical copy of your resume ready to leave with someone just in case

00:41:49

Speaker 1: having the extras is never a bad idea.

00:41:52

Speaker 2: I'd always rather have one too many of them. One too few. Yeah,

00:41:55

Speaker 1: exactly because Exactly, exactly.

00:41:58

Speaker 2: The next thing that often comes up our behavioral expectations, what do I actually do in the interview? And

00:42:05

Speaker 2: the first couple of tips are things that sound really obvious but they really are worth remembering and the first is to sit up straight, stand up straight

00:42:16

Speaker 2: look people in the eye smile, give them your full attention, Listen, be present, be engaged and offer as much of yourself as possible.

00:42:26

Speaker 2: Oftentimes when you first meet someone it's going to be appropriate to introduce yourself and shake hands. In fact, I would almost think of that as a mark that I'm looking to hit as I enter the room

00:42:38

Speaker 2: and present myself for the first time.

00:42:40

Speaker 1: I mean prior to social distancing it was like the thing right, I mean it's like it's like one of the most is that handshake man

00:42:48

Speaker 1: such a symbol of the business world in general, the work world in general and just so incredibly key and and the handshake did not diet has not gone away. We may have to be very careful using them, especially as variants are starting to get stronger but

00:43:04

Speaker 1: I think that that handshake is just such a solid move and if we can't be doing handshakes

00:43:10

Speaker 1: all the other important things around it, like dan just said the standing up, the looking someone in the eye if you can, the smiling and just being able to say hi I'm lizzie post are obviously your name instead. It's so key to that confidence in in presenting yourself.

00:43:26

Speaker 2: It's a great reminder and more and more people are navigating this process virtually.

00:43:31

Speaker 2: So if you don't have the opportunity to physically extend a hand and shake hands or show someone respect by standing up to greet them,

00:43:40

Speaker 2: using your words to communicate those same things, I

00:43:45

Speaker 2: I'm so glad to finally meet you. It is such a pleasure to be here with you today and to interview for this position, say with your words, the things that you might have trusted your gesture to communicate for you in that in person meeting, even

00:43:59

Speaker 1: saying thank you for the opportunity to be here today, something like that.

00:44:03

Speaker 2: Oh I like your sample scripts,

00:44:06

Speaker 1: although that means we're gonna have to change our final piece of advice which is coming up in a bit of of thank them twice might be thank them three times, but before we get to the end of the interview and the thinking one of the tips on our list that I really love is to be prepared to answer questions obviously. But also to ask them.

00:44:25

Speaker 1: This is a time to ask anything that you've been wondering about about the job. You might not go into full detail as if you're hired yet, but I think being prepared to have a few questions um things that mean something to you about choosing to work in an environment or in the workplace at a job.

00:44:46

Speaker 1: It's important to have those in your back pocket. Can I also just say

00:44:50

Speaker 1: you are as much as you can prepare for an interview, you never know what you are going to be asked and I will never forget being asked whether or not I liked clowns in an interview and to this day, I still don't know if my answer like got me the job. I did not get the job. So I obviously didn't get me the job. But I don't know if it was that answer that prevented me from getting lost. That cost me the job. Exactly.

00:45:15

Speaker 1: And it stuck with me. I mean literally I interviewed for this job when I was 18 and like I am I am still mulling that one over a couple times a year at 38

00:45:25

Speaker 2: and it's probably what that question was designed to do. Take you out of your comfort zone. See how you responded to something unexpected. It's true. We can prepare for so many things and we can be ready for so many situations and being ready for the unexpected is a big part of it. And

00:45:43

Speaker 2: having a little curiosity, having some interest in the position. The company that you're going to be working for

00:45:50

Speaker 2: is

00:45:51

Speaker 2: something that often times organizations are looking for. It shows that you care. It's not just about interrogating the position, figuring out whether it's right for you. It's also about showing that you're invested and you're willing to do a little bit of work.

00:46:06

Speaker 1: I always feel like it shows too that you're like, you're ready to come play, like you're ready to come be in this arena whenever we had interns who would ask a lot of questions during their interviews, I tended to really gravitate towards those interns as candidates. I was I was always like, that was someone who was really thinking about

00:46:26

Speaker 1: a does our internship really fulfill their needs, which is a part of what was going on in those interviews and those positions, but also that they're they're already thinking of themselves as being here and what it might be like and what they might experience and smartly asking the question of is that going to work for them to, you know,

00:46:47

Speaker 1: um I liked hearing anyone who was willing to ask of us, you know, things that they were curious about and it didn't really even matter what the question was. I just appreciated that they had things to ask.

00:46:59

Speaker 2: It definitely shows a more well rounded personality.

00:47:03

Speaker 2: So you already teased our last piece of advice. Do you want to give it?

00:47:08

Speaker 1: Yes, it is to thank him twice, once on the way out and once when you follow up with a written note.

00:47:15

Speaker 1: So I know that we give the advice that a handwritten note is still the very best thing to do.

00:47:21

Speaker 1: But we've also amended that advice when you're in a quick turnaround situation. There are plenty of times where at least getting the email out the door right away. That's an email. Thank you. Especially if you've set up the interview via email, that sort of thing.

00:47:36

Speaker 1: That it's it's a really good extra step to take. It doesn't mean you can't or don't need to write the handwritten thank you note.

00:47:45

Speaker 1: But it's a good way, especially during those speedy interviews where you know that they're trying to fill the position quickly, that you want to make sure you are getting that gratitude to people that you are recognizing the time that they took and spent on you to do the interview. And I think it's a good thing to show. But again, that handwritten note, it's very impressive. We've heard people say that the handwritten note is the thing that will win a candidate out in the end.

00:48:09

Speaker 1: Like where you're looking at two stellar candidates, one wrote a note, one didn't who do you hire?

00:48:14

Speaker 2: It's an opportunity for distinction. It doesn't guarantee you'll get the position, but it is absolutely an opportunity to set yourself apart.

00:48:22

Speaker 2: And I I like your reminder that the email thank you might be a necessary edition, not a replacement to that handwritten. Thank you. Thank them twice.

00:48:32

Speaker 2: Sometimes thank them three times.

00:48:34

Speaker 1: And maybe if we go with the thank you for the opportunity at the beginning, you're going to end up with four. Thank you's. But boy, so much better than not. Thanking them at all.

00:48:43

Speaker 2: Absolutely.

00:48:45

Speaker 2: And to everyone out there who might be thinking about applying for a job, we hope that this helps for all of you who are on the search. We really hope that this helps. And that whether your interview opportunities are in person or virtual, you feel well grounded. Navigating that experience

00:49:02

Speaker 2: and that you get the job. All right,

00:49:06

Speaker 2: tell me,

00:49:07

Speaker 2: why are you interested in this job? I need a steady job. Mr Wiley with the chance to go places. I see. Now there's one job you had with the central distributing company.

00:49:17

Speaker 2: You worked there for 18 months? Yes, sir.

00:49:20

Speaker 2: Why did you leave? Because I wasn't getting anywhere after 18 months. I figured it was worth more than they were paying me.

00:49:27

Speaker 1: Mm.

00:49:28

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:49:29

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:49:31

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:49:31

Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing and that can come in so many forms today. We have a sad but important salute from Constance.

00:49:45

Speaker 2: My daughter lives out of state and alone in a remote area. Her 12 year old cat died just last week suddenly

00:49:51

Speaker 2: and after being up all night at the VTR. She was told she still had to come straight to work.

00:49:57

Speaker 2: I ran into a neighbor friendly but not friends and told her about this loss and stress. She left a card outside my door for me stating clearly you were fond of this for baby two. And a special message for my daughter whom she has never met.

00:50:12

Speaker 2: The vet. Er staff was also, in my daughter's words, wonderful and made a bad situation easier, telling her that she did all she could. She clearly loved him, making sure she was safe in the parking lot. No. Inside visits with Covid and home was over an hour away

00:50:29

Speaker 1: losing a pet. It's just, I'll get teary thinking about Benny, but losing a pet is just the hardest thing.

00:50:35

Speaker 1: And it is. So, it is so nice to have people recognize it. And I know that I've been grateful when, when vet staff has assured me I was doing the right thing and they are often some of the kindest people who really understand. They see see it a lot

00:50:51

Speaker 1: and it really is very touching. But the neighbor extending

00:50:55

Speaker 1: condolences to you and your daughter who she never met. That's that's that's truly kind

00:51:00

Speaker 2: Constance. Thank you for this salute

00:51:06

Speaker 1: and thank you for listening

00:51:08

Speaker 2: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon. Please

00:51:13

Speaker 1: connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and co workers. And if you participate on social media,

00:51:19

Speaker 2: you can send us your next question feedback or salute by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a message or text at 8 to 858 kind. That's 8028585463

00:51:33

Speaker 2: on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute,

00:51:41

Speaker 1: please consider becoming a sustaining member of the show by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

00:51:48

Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app

00:51:54

Speaker 1: and please consider leaving us a review. It helps our show rankings which helps more people find awesome etiquette.

00:52:00

Speaker 2: Our show is edited by chris Albertine and assistant produced by Brigitte. Dowd. Thanks

00:52:05

Speaker 1: chris

00:52:11

Speaker 1: mm

00:52:12

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:52:16

Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:52:17

Speaker 1: Yeah.