In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on condolence considerations, camping in the club, a friend who is feeling slighted about not receiving a wedding invitation, and mowing management in a communal garden. For Awesome Etiquette Sustaining members our question is about Reflections on a first date gone wrong. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and a postscript announcing a new member of your family.
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social, Could you see that's old fashioned,
Speaker 2: Watch how busy post and then post to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, Real friendliness.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette
Speaker 2: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we take your questions on condolence considerations camping in the globe, a friend who is feeling slighted about not receiving a wedding invitation
Speaker 1: and mowing management in a communal
Speaker 2: garden for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about reflections on a first date gone wrong
Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript segment on announcing a new member of your
Speaker 2: family. All that coming up
Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.
Speaker 1: I'm lizzie Post
Speaker 2: and I'm dan post sending.
Speaker 1: It goes,
Speaker 2: hey because how's it going?
Speaker 1: It's going great because as you know, this is our second time on the mic in one week and that is happening because
Speaker 2: because we love awesome etiquette so much we just want to do twice as many.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish we could provide like a daily show for our audience. But no, we're doubling up on recordings because our awesome etiquette sound engineer and editor chris. Albertine is going on vacation
Speaker 1: and the reason why we are sharing this all with you is because we need your etiquette salutes and questions and feedback as much as you can send us right now so that we can pre record a bunch of these shows so that chris can have get this an entire month in wait is it Scotland
Speaker 1: Ireland Scotland Ireland Scotland. It's one of the two
Speaker 1: and he he and Betsy are set to have a really fantastic month over there and we couldn't be happier for them. But it does mean we've got to pre record some shows.
Speaker 2: It does. We do indeed. And that is the we the all of us together. We so help us help chris
Speaker 2: get across the ocean and enjoy some genuine down time after a long couple years without a lot of travel.
Speaker 2: Please please please send your questions, your salutes and your feedback to also Medicaid at Emily Post dot com. We and chris would so appreciate it
Speaker 1: and we know that you appreciate it when we keep our interest short and get to the show. So that is exactly what we are going to do today dan.
Speaker 2: Are you ready to answer some questions
Speaker 2: There is no shortage today. Let's do it
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind that's 8028585463 or you can find us on social media on twitter where at Emily post in stone instagram. We are at Emily Post institute and on facebook
Speaker 1: we're awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 2: Our first question this week is about condolence considerations.
Speaker 2: This question is part two on condolence cards from a listener we heard from last week. My son lives in Germany. He said he couldn't find any sympathy cards in english to send his aunts or cousins and that it was rude to send them a card they could not read. I suggested blank paper and he balked it, filling a whole page in quotation marks
Speaker 2: with variations of I am sorry,
Speaker 2: ideas for those in this situation.
Speaker 2: Yes, he could send an email but I did teach them paper notices are proper for sympathy cards.
Speaker 2: Is the foreign language. Okay. And if not suggestions for filling a page for those with less experience in old fashioned letter writing. Thanks anonymous,
Speaker 1: anonymous. It's a great question.
Speaker 1: Condolence notes are actually, they're typically short. They don't have to be long. So relief to your son, he doesn't have to fill a whole page
Speaker 1: and if you're going to go for a shorter note, I would suggest doing a small fold over card or maybe even one of those note cards that's just single sided. I think both would be perfectly fine in this situation
Speaker 1: and dan what do you recommend? Like 3 to 5 sentences.
Speaker 2: Yes 3456 there isn't a hard and fast rule, but you want to express your sympathy, express your feelings for either the person who has passed or for the relationship that you have with the person who is grieving.
Speaker 2: If there is a future action or something that you're looking forward to maybe a visit when you return home, you might mention that, but you don't have to
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 1: that's that's it. It's
Speaker 2: really more about making the connection and making the effort than in investing a lot in developing content.
Speaker 1: I also, I like the twist to this question where the son lives in Germany and all of the sympathy cards that he can find in the stores have german writing on them. And so do you send a card that's that's not in the language of the person who will be receiving it?
Speaker 1: And my thought is that I would rather probably go the blank route than to do that. What do you think me to? Probably. Yeah, it's like, it doesn't seem like it would be bad. I was
Speaker 2: imagining looking for a card that was a fold over card that had some sort of visual on the front maybe a flower Exactly. Uh and
Speaker 2: I was also wondering about a sympathy card where
Speaker 2: maybe the condolences or the sympathy that's expressed, that's printed on the card. Could be in german, but you would write your note in the language that the person receiving it would read it and I don't think that would necessarily be confusing to someone, particularly if they see that the card is coming from you, you're in Germany or it's obviously coming from Germany. I don't think there'll be a lot of confusion about what the intent is and that's what you're really looking to avoid. You don't want to
Speaker 2: mask what it is that you're saying
Speaker 2: in a language that they don't understand, but
Speaker 2: a little printed message on the front of the card, I might even um
Speaker 2: be curious as someone receiving that, oh this is the word sympathy in german or something like that. And
Speaker 2: so I wouldn't think of it as absolutely don't, I would never do it, but I wouldn't want it to be an impediment to what it is you're saying, being understood.
Speaker 1: I also think there's no reason why you can't write the english translation of what's written on the card so that someone does, you know, is able to get the sentiment or see that connection
Speaker 1: without having to google it or something, you know,
Speaker 1: But I think that that there are a number of options to go for here and that the important thing is to actually make the effort to, to reach out and send the condolence note. I think that's a place where a lot of people can get tripped up to
Speaker 1: is that there are so many options sometimes that you're I don't know what I should do. I don't know, I don't feel close enough or something like that.
Speaker 1: It can really help to just remember confidently that sending the note is what really matters
Speaker 2: for the person on the other end, they are very likely saying to themselves something like this person all the way in Germany was thinking about me, thinking about the person who we lost and made an effort
Speaker 2: and that's saying a lot.
Speaker 2: The one other thing that came to my mind as I was thinking about this question and stationary and sympathy and condolences. That
Speaker 2: often times people had a specific stationary for sympathy notes that had a black border on it
Speaker 2: and that might be something else that you would keep an eye open for as an option for a very simple graphic, but that is very much in line with a tradition of writing sympathy. Condolence notes
Speaker 1: anonymous. Thank you so much for the question. This is an etiquette classic and we are always happy to provide the advice about condolence notes.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled camping in the club.
Speaker 1: Hello, dan and lizzie. I'm a big fan of your show. I've been listening for years now. I wish I was writing from a more cheerful place. I am currently trying to enjoy a relatively unplugged weekend camping at a natural spring.
Speaker 1: Some of my fellow campers have played music while lounging by the spring on and off throughout the weekend. And while this is not a choice I would make, I consider myself to be fairly fun and easy going.
Speaker 1: I am not a party pooper
Speaker 1: after a dip in the spring I left specifically because the noise level was contributing to a headache. And headed back to my campsite for some R and R.
Speaker 1: Well my neighbors decided to open up the doors to their truck and blast their music. It is so loud they cannot even be able to speak to one another, it's so loud. I feel like I'm at a club in the site over it's so loud they're speakers are cracking
Speaker 1: and the base feels like a hammer to my head.
Speaker 1: I know you would empower me to go say something in a polite way. Maybe blame my headache, but I don't feel comfortable doing that.
Speaker 1: There are 5 to 6 men there and I'm a solo woman camper. I don't want to draw any attention to myself just in case. Also, the park rules are on their side. Quiet hours start at 10 PM and it's only five PM. Now they are following the letter. If not the spirit of the law.
Speaker 1: Again, I wouldn't be upset if the volume was at a moderate level. Go ahead and have fun with your friends. But this is insane.
Speaker 1: I may end up going over there eventually, but in the meantime my question is this,
Speaker 1: I know the etiquette works best as a tool for self reflection rather than judgment, but how can anyone think this is okay ever? Am I a wet blanket? I don't think so, but I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone can think they have the right to treat the entire campground to their playlist.
Speaker 1: What is the Emily? Post institute stance on loud personal music in public spaces. Thanks camping in the club,
Speaker 2: camping in the club. I like you, I'm sorry about the situation that you're facing and it is so disappointing. I love camping so much. I love nature and the great outdoors and peace and quiet and moments of self reflection and
Speaker 2: like you, I also don't think I'm a party pooper, I enjoy the club and when I first read your question, I was thinking about people who just stayed in the club forever or stayed a really long time and I realized as I was reading the question that we were actually talking about people who are bringing the club to you in your
Speaker 1: camp camping space. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And
Speaker 2: as far as the question that I think is really interesting that you ask about self reflection and how it could ever be possible that someone could do this and not have it occurred to them, how it might be impacting other people
Speaker 2: is where the etiquette rubber hits the road and it might very well be that their whole idea of getting away isn't the same thing as getting outdoors, the way it is for you, that it's about spending that time together and reliving the
Speaker 2: rowdy parties of their youth or continuing the rowdy other parties of the exactly
Speaker 2: that it really is a question of perspective and it's so, so hard to believe, so hard to put yourself in a perspective that's so different than your own, that it can really seem like,
Speaker 2: like there's no way they could do it without realizing what a negative impact it's having
Speaker 2: and it might be the case that they, they do understand that and they really don't care that they're part of that small percentage of people who
Speaker 2: even take some pleasure in pushing other people around, but it's not the first place I'd go in my mind. I like you,
Speaker 2: I think that I would imagine myself as sharing the space and I would wish that other people would think of it the same way and clearly you've got some people that aren't necessarily thinking of it in exactly the same way and I could feel that friction.
Speaker 2: I do think there are some options for you, but as you pointed out that the rules technically on their side and with you
Speaker 2: not feeling really confident or like you're wanting to go address them directly and that is perfectly okay. We say that again and again and again on this show that it is not your job
Speaker 2: to do that, that it is really up to you,
Speaker 2: that it is difficult and the actions that you might decide to take are going to be a little bit more round about in terms of how they impact the situation
Speaker 1: more about your own self care than about trying to find the polite way to confront. I mean that's, that's basically, I feel like the pivot you always have to make when you decide confrontation is not, of course you can take, you could choose to maybe talk to a ranger or manager of the site
Speaker 1: to see if maybe even though time wise there within the constraints, maybe the volume is such that it warrants them being asked to tone it down a little bit that they might be out of reason in that way. But checking with the ranger, the or the manager is the only way to kind of find that out. And that's often a tactic that we suggest
Speaker 1: in these types of situations when you don't feel comfortable
Speaker 1: approaching someone are confronting someone is to try to see if there's some sort of authority or person to turn to within an organization or within the establishment to be able to have them engage or at least check in with them to see if, if there are any problems that someone in their position could be addressing
Speaker 2: and sometimes
Speaker 2: a visit like that, even if it's not about, hey, shut this off is enough to just remind people that there are other people that are impacted, that there is an observant eye that does have some standing and authority. If the decisions that they're making that are
Speaker 2: let's call them little impositions become bigger in positions or if they happen enough, that enough people complain
Speaker 2: that there might be consequences. And that little reminder can often times be enough to sort of redirect a situation. The other big benefit that I thought about saying something to arranger is that it might have an impact on future policy, that if they get feedback on how people use the park,
Speaker 2: that you might become part of the input that over time changes the way they set the
Speaker 2: quiet time or the way they define what is loud at the campsite
Speaker 1: camping in the club. You you ask as a final question, what is the Emily Post Institute stance on loud personal music in public spaces and are sort of official stance on it. The type of stuff you'll find on our website and in our books when it comes to public spaces is that
Speaker 1: they are shared spaces. And in those spaces we try really hard not to sort of impede on the comfort or enjoyment of others,
Speaker 1: but we still also get to express and enjoy ourselves. So for me, in a campsite like that, having music on during the day, not a problem having music on that that's so loud that it's making the people around you uncomfortable. That's a problem.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, the only way that one can know that their music is making someone uncomfortable is to be told that that's what's happening. You know, and so that it creates a tough dynamic. I think there are some general ideas about how loud is too loud, but I still think it's kind of a subjective thing. And so there will definitely be times when either polite confrontation or awareness are like raising awareness or some of the only ways that someone could know that they are making the people around them uncomfortable. It's a tough spot that you're not allowed to be in a public space. You
Speaker 2: know, lizzie post. I once lived in a neighborhood in California that had a specific decibel level. No, is the accepted noise amount that
Speaker 1: makes it helpful. Yeah, like measurable.
Speaker 2: Clearly the issue
Speaker 2: had reached a point where subjectivity was no longer going to be acceptable to the people living in that community, they had decided, no, we're gonna we're gonna put marks on it and these types of things, certain types of mowing and leaf blowing before and after certain hours exceeded those decibel
Speaker 1: limits. And
Speaker 2: that was a way that the town could really
Speaker 2: exert some control,
Speaker 2: absent a decibel level limit. Were left in that very human world where we have to negotiate this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah,
Speaker 2: camping in the club. We really hope that while our answer can't help resolve this situation, that it gives you some things to think about and a couple of options that might help the next camper at the site
Speaker 2: first stop for the Bennetts is park headquarters.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 2: They want advice on campgrounds and there is no better person to give it than a park ranger.
Speaker 1: He's anxious
Speaker 2: that all park visitors enjoy their stay in the mountains,
Speaker 1: spacious, well
Speaker 2: tended campsites abound in the smokies and campers have a variety of choices. Rangers keep tab on each campground and know which are crowded and which have room.
Speaker 2: Yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker 2: Our next question is titled Wind out, Dear Daniel and lizzie. I have found myself in a sticky situation with a group of girlfriends. There are five of us all together and to have their weddings within the next seven months
Speaker 2: we've been a group of friends for years, but the pandemic forced us apart, making meeting up harder and our relationships mostly long distance.
Speaker 2: Our most recently engaged friend has splashed both her engagement and engagement party all over social media. While we're all happy for her, we noticed none of us were invited to the engagement party and to be honest, it stung.
Speaker 2: We've all been in touch during the pandemic, hosting zoom wine nights and group texting, but perhaps this wasn't enough for our engaged friend to feel connected.
Speaker 2: She has since sent save the dates to only two girls in our group and I'm not one of them excluded again. I know it's not personal, but I feel like she went about it all wrong.
Speaker 2: I can understand being ruthless with a guest list, especially during a pandemic, but the way she went about it felt underhanded.
Speaker 2: She even works in the wedding industry and said pre engagement. She didn't want a wedding because she didn't want to hurt her vendor relationships
Speaker 2: while she has chosen to forgo an elopement and have a wedding. I wonder if she's also foregone common manners and courtesy toward her friends, some of whom may be far away but still felt connected or at least hope to be connected during a really tough year. I keep coming back to courtesy amongst friends and basic manners.
Speaker 2: Are these expectations? I shouldn't expect
Speaker 2: if she joins our next wine night and speaks about her upcoming wedding. How do I show up gracefully
Speaker 2: while I might be the odd one out? I certainly don't want to lose either my manners or my other friends.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Wind out.
Speaker 1: Wind out. I'm so sorry that you're feeling this way. It's one of the really hard things about weddings and you've heard us say on the show before that a lot of the time people aren't in complete control of their guest list when it comes to balancing the capacity of the venue or sometimes the costs that they're up against
Speaker 1: with the people that are being invited. Sometimes
Speaker 1: cousins, sometimes business connections end up being the types of people that make the guest lists over our our dear friends sometimes. And it can be really hard to feel the weight of that even though as you state very clearly, you understand
Speaker 1: how ruthless sometimes people have to be about a guest list
Speaker 1: that said, being the one or one of a couple people from a decently tight knit group, especially after the past year when it was very hard to even find a tight knit group
Speaker 1: left out I think makes it really, it does, it provides an extra sting
Speaker 1: that said, I go back and forth, dan and let me know your thoughts on this
Speaker 1: about whether or not a friend has a ton of obligation to really explain that you aren't invited to the wedding. And I'm sorry that that's what's happened. There's a part of me that can hear that conversation happening and have been on the receiving end of that conversation and actually appreciated it.
Speaker 1: And at the same time we say things like, no, you don't explain to someone why you're unfriending them on facebook, You don't explain to them why they're not invited to any of the other parties they're not invited to.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's that's where my brain ends up going back and forth a little bit, is would you really have wanted her to spell it out? Would it have been spelled out in
Speaker 1: a particular way that would have worked. But if she didn't meet that way, does it then make it double awkward?
Speaker 1: It's a dicey territory.
Speaker 2: It is dicey territory. And I love that idea of double awkward
Speaker 2: that you might try to address one awkwardness and end up compounding it. And that's definitely where that advice of not getting too deep into explaining all your reasons for not doing something comes from.
Speaker 2: I was really keyed on this question also lizzie because I like you can imagine all kinds of situations where it would make someone feel a little bit better to know the reason why that cousin was invited and they weren't or someone else from the same
Speaker 2: wine group was invited and you weren't to me, the one of the places that I might look for making that choice would be how much I was going to be talking with the person about the wedding
Speaker 1: itself.
Speaker 2: That if it's someone you're not that connected to and
Speaker 2: it's really about getting through a moment in time. Oh, I thought I'd be invited this wedding. I'm realizing I'm not and I can process that and deal with it and move on from it
Speaker 2: two after that has happened. Having to listen to the person then talk about the wedding or be excited about the wedding or talk about the wedding with other people who are going to the wedding. And that's where I think there's some courtesy that could definitely come into play here. Some manners that could come into play here, both in terms of how you handle those discussions moving forward
Speaker 2: and
Speaker 2: also if you were really anticipating those discussions happening around someone, acknowledging that and checking in with them about how they feel about it or whether or not that's okay
Speaker 1: dan. I really think that you've hit on the two big takeaways from this, number one is to figure out if you're in the type of relationship with someone where you're going to be seeing and interacting with them regularly and therefore
Speaker 1: potentially mentioning that, you know, you recognize that you weren't able to invite them to the wedding could be helpful to the situation
Speaker 1: on top of that, making sure that you check in with them about whether or not they're comfortable hearing about the wedding plans. I think that that that's the best that two friends who aren't going to be engaging in this big celebratory event together could kind of hope for, you know?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I do think there's a parallel courtesy if you're throwing any kind of party or event and there's somebody who's not invited you take care with how you talk about that around them and it doesn't mean that you should have invited them or shouldn't have invited them,
Speaker 2: but whether you do or don't definitely impacts the ways that you talk with them about that thing moving forward. And
Speaker 2: I could definitely see that being some advice that might be applicable in this question for the person who's hosting this wedding and he's clearly got some friends who are feeling like they aren't being considered or thought of
Speaker 1: wind out an answer to one of your last questions, which was if she joins our next wine night and speaks about her upcoming wedding, How do I show up gracefully?
Speaker 1: I think showing up gracefully is is participating, is listening is uh, not shutting off your camera or walking out of the room, you know, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I think that it's, it's bringing your grace to that moment, which is understanding that someone is really excited. They probably did want to share this moment with you and our bummed that they couldn't, so this might be a way for them to be able to share some of this moment with you is
Speaker 2: a good thing to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: I think that's when we talk about having a gracious attitude. That's often
Speaker 1: the idea is that you're, you're putting some of those feelings of slight and of hurt aside a bit and choosing to say, okay, I'm, I'm gonna look at others here for a minute and how I can best conduct myself and
Speaker 1: best conducting myself is going to be participating well here rather than saying, I don't want to hear this. I can't believe you bring it up in front of me. I mean that would be the not graceful version of it, right?
Speaker 2: And it might help to have a little sample script in your
Speaker 1: pocket, good idea.
Speaker 2: I,
Speaker 2: I just hope this wedding goes off exactly the way you'd hope, I hope it's everything that you want it to be or that you say whatever is is honest and is the way that you would respond to someone who's sharing something they're really excited about with you
Speaker 1: wind out. We hope that our answer helps and that you and this bride can continue the good friendship that you do have
Speaker 1: mother. What do you suppose mary didn't invite me to her party?
Speaker 1: Are you sure you didn't get an invitation? Maybe they thought he wouldn't want to go to a party. They probably thought I wouldn't know how to act. You will get an invitation to the party. There's just been some mix up, wait and see. Oh it's not important anyhow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled mowing management.
Speaker 1: Hi lizzie and dan, thank you for the wonderful podcast. I used to listen regularly a few years ago then I moved countries, life got in the way and I lost touch with you. I'm so happy to have discovered you again and have been catching up on everything I've missed. I recently moved into an apartment building with seven units. There is a medium sized front and back garden
Speaker 1: and while the front garden is split into by the path to the main door,
Speaker 1: all sections of the garden are legally communal
Speaker 1: and no apartments have direct access to any bit of garden.
Speaker 1: My downstairs neighbours who face onto the front garden have spent a lot of time making the patch outside their windows really pretty with plants and shrubbery and a bit of landscaping
Speaker 1: to the point that it looks and feels private and I wouldn't be comfortable using it even though it's legally shared ground.
Speaker 1: They've been there 14 years so I can understand them wanting to invest time and money into making their closest bit of garden nice to spend time in. And I don't resent the fact that they have attempted to make it a bit more private since they've been here a long time and have probably seen many neighbouring residents come and go without putting an effort to the garden spaces.
Speaker 1: What I am finding strange though
Speaker 1: is that the husband mose their side of the front garden and the whole back garden
Speaker 1: but doesn't mow the other side of the front garden
Speaker 1: which is a lot more unkempt and hasn't had any effort put into it to make it look nice. Instead, another neighbor takes it upon himself to mow this last bit of garden with his mechanical lawnmower. It takes him at least five times as long to mow the lawn as it does the other neighbor.
Speaker 1: I find this really strange.
Speaker 1: I know the first neighbor has been here the longest. So my understanding is that he never took care of the other side of the front garden and when the second neighbor moved in he felt the need to take it on himself.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a case of the second neighbor simply insisting he get to break out his mechanical lawnmower,
Speaker 2: That would be me,
Speaker 1: that would be you and your cousin, my sister, anna who loves her mechanical lawnmower.
Speaker 1: I'm really keen to tidy up this neglected bit of garden space and the fact is that the mechanical lawnmower just doesn't do a very good job. It leaves untouched a lot of tall, thick grass. And if I were to start contributing to its upkeep, I certainly wouldn't be keen to share the task of the mechanical lawn mowing.
Speaker 1: Do you think there would be any polite way of asking the first neighbor to start including the neglected bit of garden in his meowing.
Speaker 1: I truly don't think it would add more than five minutes to the rest of the job. And as I mentioned, it's all communal garden.
Speaker 1: However, I don't want to come across as demanding or potentially complicate what seems to be a delicate understanding of assumed garden ownership, especially as I'm fairly new to the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: Thanks for any pointers. You can give yours mowing mystery as I will say. First time question. Right?
Speaker 2: First time, it's so fantastic. All of my worlds are colliding
Speaker 1: right? Like apartment living. I mean, I know neither of us living apartments right now, but like, oh my gosh, there's an
Speaker 1: there's like the intricacy of people and the like the habits that you get into, like this
Speaker 1: particular neighbor mose the entire front one half in front of like on their side of the building. You know, the garden in the building and then the entire back, which is open to everybody, but not the one patch in front of the front neighbors of their lot. Like it's,
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating little conundrum and a little, it is a bit of a mystery as to why this is the setup that's happened so far.
Speaker 2: There's the letter of the law, there's the common law application.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: And then there's the ethical principles, right?
Speaker 2: What I find really interesting here is how that little carve out happened to begin with and without having been there or been part of that discussion, there's no way to know. And in this case I would lean on my status as a newcomer and I would investigate what's going on. I would show enthusiasm for the landscaping at the property and
Speaker 2: um, some curiosity about how I could participate or what the parameters are.
Speaker 2: And I think you can ask those questions without disrupting the current arrangement, without disrupting the whatever that subtle negotiation is that put the current arrangement in place.
Speaker 2: But you as a newcomer trying to figure out how you fit into that. There's no way to know without knowing what the understanding is. And I would be sure to ask that of both sides of the equation.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, I mean, I know there's seven units, but I I am sort of wondering if there's ever like apartment meeting night or something like that in this little community or if they're really separate and keep separate,
Speaker 1: in which case I like your idea of asking each individually or or maybe inviting them both over for a cup of tea and ask notice saying, I've noticed you were the only two who take care of the gardens.
Speaker 1: I wanted to help and participate, but kind of wanted to get the lay of the land and figure out who likes doing what, who wishes something was different. I've got ideas, you know?
Speaker 2: Well look, can I jump in because you said something that Of course, yeah, there was a big part of my question for our question Askar mowing mystery.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 2: If there is a desire for you to participate to do some gardening or claim a little piece of land or join someone in their care for a little uh spot
Speaker 2: that that really opens up the discussion in a lot of ways where when you're willing to participate and chip in all of a sudden you have so much more standing too
Speaker 2: ask if it would be possible for this to happen or that to happen because you're engaged, you're contributing as well. And
Speaker 2: all of those questions come from a place where their impact on you is very clear and it's not just about suggesting someone else do a little bit more work that you think might
Speaker 1: benefit, you know, and it doesn't sound like mowing mystery is in that place, it sounds like they're interested in pitching in helping out doing their little bit,
Speaker 2: which is which is
Speaker 1: nice. My question for mowing mystery is that they mentioned not really liking the idea of using that mechanical mower and noticing that the mechanical mower doesn't do a great job in particular, which might just be a blade issue. You might just need to sharpen those blades. But
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if mowing mystery has ever thought of asking whether or not the high speed, whether it's gas or electric. I can't remember uh lawnmower, whether that was one that we could get into a news instead and it might just be that asking that person or offering say, hey, I noticed that the
Speaker 1: the other lawn mower doesn't do a great job on that side. Could I like join in paying for a little gas and
Speaker 1: use this lawnmower to finish off the rest of the yard? I would love to start helping to take care of that part of the yard. Of course you have to talk about it with like mechanical lawn mowing person too. But it's it's this interesting. There's two different lawnmowers. One does a better job. Can we maybe get
Speaker 1: better job lawnmower guy to help out with the rest of it or to let you help out using their equipment? I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 2: can I go wait out the rabbit hole here,
Speaker 1: do it. We're in the garden be mr McGregor.
Speaker 2: So I have a new ish brother in law in my life who is very excited right now about the all electric power tools that the power company is helping him replace all his power tools with. And
Speaker 1: I didn't know they did such
Speaker 2: things I recently learned about this program and I'm intrigued but
Speaker 2: it's part of a growing awareness about the impact that small engines have on carbon in the atmosphere and it might very well be the case that one half of this lawn mowing equation feels very strongly about using that mechanical mower. And that's part of a principled plan for how that person wants to
Speaker 2: manage their home lived their life
Speaker 1: impact the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I would just keep my little antenna out, I would be listening, I would be ready to hear all kinds of things. There might be a really
Speaker 2: a really important reason for this carve out for one of the people involved and
Speaker 2: it might not be immediately apparent or obvious to everyone, but it might really matter to that person
Speaker 1: mowing mystery. We hope our discussion gives you a couple avenues to take. Most importantly, we hope that this garden, this little patch of garden gets a little bit more love. It sounds like you do live in a delightful building with really nice grounds around it.
Speaker 1: And please please please follow up with us. Should you meet with these neighbors and find out what this meowing mystery is all about. Would definitely want to know, very important stuff. Grass behind every blade. There is one of the biggest stories in the world, A story written on the face of your own land. I out further to warn you that there's still some unanswered questions. Where would we be without grand?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette and Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute
Speaker 2: on facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying awesome etiquette and we certainly hope you are, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.
Speaker 1: You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.
Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we cover today we have feedback from Dorothy Hello awhile back a listener wrote in about handling leftovers, mid meal for example, an appetizer. The question was, do I ask the waiter for a box And where do I put it?
Speaker 2: Here's my solution.
Speaker 2: Bring your own reusable containers and a reusable bag to the restaurant. Besides being better for the environment. The container will not leak and will keep your food fresher also you can pack away your leftovers as you go and place them in the bag which can go on the floor.
Speaker 2: I've been doing this for years and I always keep a supply of empty containers in my car
Speaker 2: sincerely Dorothy in Connecticut. We so appreciate the feedback Dorothy and we are so looking for feedback from all of you. Please do send us your thoughts and updates. Keep them coming. You can send your next feedback or update. Two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 80285 A kind that's 8028585463.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Mhm.
Speaker 2: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette And today we're going to talk about new child announcements. They aren't just for facebook.
Speaker 1: Indeed they are not.
Speaker 1: Well today many of us announced the welcoming of a new child into our family by posting to whatever your favorite social media network sites are.
Speaker 1: It's still really good practice to send out paper announcements. Local stationers have tons of options available and the internet is also filled with wonderful sites that can help you plan and send out your announcements. But we thought it would be really good to cover some of the basics of announcements
Speaker 2: lizzie post. That's a really good idea. You never know when it might come in handy,
Speaker 1: You never know.
Speaker 2: So in thinking about basics, the
Speaker 2: first thing is the most basic which is that announcements can be sent for any child that's being welcomed into a family that's whether someone's giving birth, whether it's through a surrogate or an adoption. However, this new child is arriving, it is appropriate and important to announce that arrival.
Speaker 1: And that is exactly why you hear us calling this new child announcements as opposed to birth announcements which was the sort of more traditional term for the whole category.
Speaker 1: The second thing is that an announcement is not an invitation to anything, nor does it create the obligation of a gift
Speaker 1: or is it a time to request gifts or mention gifts. So really the only thing the announcement is about is making the announcement itself, whatever that may be. And in this case it's the announcement of a new family member. So
Speaker 2: what should be on that announcement? There are a couple of things that you want to be sure you absolutely include the baby's full name and you can choose middle initial full name but you want to give people enough information to know who this new arrival is,
Speaker 2: the date of the birth or in the case of adoption? The date of adoption are also important things to include if you've got one, a photo of the child is often really appreciated and you also want to include the name of the parent parents and if there are any
Speaker 1: siblings. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: But that's really it. Those are the basics of it. And whether you want to say something like
Speaker 1: we're excited to announce the birth of our son, daughter child and their name with an exclamation point or welcome to the world followed by the name. Or maybe you would say we are thrilled to welcome and then the child's name to followed by to the world.
Speaker 1: You could also do something which I think a lot of parents and families are feeling in that moment which is our hearts are full of love. Welcome to the world and then the child's name. So
Speaker 1: there's lots of lots of different ways that you can play around with the wording. Do something that feels true to you, true to your style, true to your voice and your feelings. But it's definitely a place where I think you get to really make it sound like what you are, which is welcoming this new member to the family.
Speaker 2: You know, it really helps to hear those sample scripts all of a sudden I'm feeling the spirit of the announcement. The information is important but it is that sharing of joy or wonder or excitement that really is the spirit that you're spreading.
Speaker 2: So how would you fit that thought in with all the rest of the information that we talked about and I know there's not a lot but what does it look like
Speaker 1: the full shebang all together we have a couple different examples that we're going to read to you and we know it's always easier when you have a visual and you can visit Emily post dot com and search
Speaker 1: new child announcements and you'll be able to find all of this information and these samples.
Speaker 1: But the first one that we have is joseph and Mariana Mendez along with Sam and juliana are excited to announce the arrival of their son and brother. Anthony victor Mendez May 20th 2021 £6.07 ounces 18 inches.
Speaker 1: And then you could add something like welcome to the world or something afterwards but in this case that are excited to announce is where that language is kind of coming in.
Speaker 2: Sure another option might sound something like this introducing Anthony victor. Mendez May 20th 2021 £6.07 ounces 18 inches welcomed with love, joseph, Mariana Sam and juliana
Speaker 1: or for an adoption it might read and this is a little bit more formalized version.
Speaker 1: Mr and mrs Tyler Blackwood announced the adoption of Simon Andreas born august 10th 2019 keto Ecuador Simon became part of our family september 19th 2020
Speaker 2: seems pretty simple lizzie post. So we've got the major elements of an announcement. We know that we have permission to really send them far and wide because they create no obligation.
Speaker 2: Do you have any ideas about maybe the people that would be most likely to be thought of as who would be receiving these announcements?
Speaker 1: It's truly anyone that feels right to you. So this is your family, your chosen family, your best of friends,
Speaker 1: you can send them further out but typically it's it's your
Speaker 1: inner circle plus extended circle, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the times the very inner circle gets a lot of the text message announcements, you know very soon whether a child has just arrived or whether birth has just happened. I feel like those happen like very, very quickly within the inner family and you might not send
Speaker 1: for instance your parents an announcement. But a lot of the times
Speaker 1: parents are the people who like to then get or the new grandparents we should say are the people who like to get those announcements because they save them for photo albums and stuff like that. So I think as long as you're really covering the majority of the family that you are connected with that you talk to.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the good starting place from there on out. You can go everywhere. I know people who
Speaker 1: uh sent them to us when we Emily post was bigger and and it wasn't just dan telling me that he's having kids you know, I think where's that announcement Danna, where's that announcement? I'm just
Speaker 2: kidding.
Speaker 2: As I was asking the question, I was thinking to myself that it really is that middle distance socially it's almost the most important for this because as you point out the people that you're the closest to
Speaker 2: will appreciate receiving them for
Speaker 2: their own reasons
Speaker 2: but that it's really that group of people who you're still pretty close to but might not be getting the word as directly that I think are often particularly touched to be thought of as someone who is important to announce this event to
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more because
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you, I am so hoping that our family has more announcements in the years to come. You never know, frantic parents are german and finally at last there is a winner. He's Danny Watson 11 months old and red headed boy, his mother proud and boy is Danny boy ever tired. So little nipper takes a nip of milk.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: We like to end our show on a high note so we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing and that can come in so many forms today we have a salute from Lori
Speaker 2: Hello, I am writing to recognize a friend of mine who is expecting her first child and had the kindest most thoughtful note at the beginning of their online baby registry.
Speaker 2: It read feel free to get anything that is not on this list or just give us some advice. We are first time parents happy to have any help or new baby gear.
Speaker 2: I thought it was a beautiful expression of gratitude toward the family and friends who will be helping them and celebrating the birth of their child. Thank you so much for your podcast. I look forward to each and every new episode warmly, Laurie
Speaker 1: Laurie thank you so much for that salute. We certainly do love hearing all of them and they do come in so many different forms and I love that this was one coming for a new couple about how they are engaging
Speaker 1: with the support groups around them
Speaker 2: and I love that acknowledgement that that advice could just be a
Speaker 1: gift. Right, right, right
Speaker 2: Laurie, thank you so much for this salute.
Speaker 2: Thank
Speaker 1: you for
Speaker 2: listening and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon,
Speaker 1: please connect with us and share this show with friends, family and co workers and on social media if you use
Speaker 2: it, you can send us your next question feedback or salute and remember we need them. Let's get
Speaker 1: chris vacation salute salute, especially
Speaker 2: by email. We are awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a message or text at 802858 com. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We're at Emily Post on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute. And on facebook for awesome etiquette Hand the Emily Post
Speaker 1: Institute. Please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app and please consider leaving us a review. It helps our show ranking, which helps more people find awesome etiquette.
Speaker 2: Our show is edited by Chris Albertine, an assistant produced by Brigitte.
Speaker 1: Thanks kris, kris and Brigitte.