Episode 367 - Ring Ring Ring

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social. Could you see that's old fashioned,

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Speaker 1: watch how busy post and then post to act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Real friendliness.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty.

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Speaker 2: On today's show, we take your questions on who says thank you when the thank you note comes from a committee, how to balance love, marriage and etiquette.

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Speaker 2: How to throw a gift lys shower. And a great question about desk phones and how long to let them ring

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Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Your question of the week is about how to handle late colleagues when they are your superiors

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Speaker 2: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on issuing invitations as a host.

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Speaker 1: All that coming up,

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie Post

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Speaker 1: and I'm dan post sending

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Speaker 2: because

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Speaker 1: how's it going, lizzie Post?

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, what's going on with you Mr, my patriots football team tom brady. Oh wait a minute. It was the bucks with brady. It wasn't your brady anymore. Did that hurt? I mean, I know it's the second I was going to say it, but you think that

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Speaker 1: this is hurting just a little bit, reminding me that the patriots tom brady

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Speaker 2: twist that knife. You can really awesome watching tom brady win? I I am a huge fan of tom brady myself,

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Speaker 2: but did you have a good time watching the game?

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Speaker 1: You know, for men of a certain age, watching tom brady continued to be great is a really affirming thing. Do

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Speaker 2: you think it's maybe because you're the same age as tom brady?

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Speaker 1: I was not implying that I was not intending to imply that, but

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Speaker 2: since you took

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Speaker 1: that from what I was saying, I won't disagree

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Speaker 2: with.

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Speaker 2: It

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Speaker 1: really is fun. It's fun for me. Thank you for playing along. I appreciate it. Hey,

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Speaker 2: I got a question for you. You guys typically do a pretty big annual fantasy football league thing. I know Vermont is starting to kind of, I've noticed any way more places are requiring masks again.

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Speaker 2: Um, I know my sister is really cautious with what she allows her kids to do because they are unvaccinated ages. They're not eligible yet.

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Speaker 2: How did y'all manage this this season? Did it feel good? Did it feel weird? Is it like last year? Is it like what was the deal on the hill? All kinds

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Speaker 1: of different feelings and they're changing all the time. I think that everybody had been looking forward to a return to

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Speaker 1: sunday gatherings around football games which are a big part of our family life in the fall

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Speaker 1: and

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Speaker 1: I think as the

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Speaker 1: realities of the Delta variant and the risks it poses, Children

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Speaker 1: has become more and more apparent in, in our communities here in Vermont that has really shifted and I've noticed this whole new layer of

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Speaker 1: covid

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Speaker 1: response etiquette layering into

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Speaker 1: The knowledge that's already been layered on in the last 18 months and that all has to do with kids. And for us, the football

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Speaker 1: sunday get togethers often involve kids. So we're

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Speaker 1: introducing

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Speaker 1: sort of two tiered strategies. Well, there's these plans for when there are kids around, we're going to operate under this set of rules were maybe gonna plan for people to come in different cars so that we can have

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Speaker 1: adults only vaccinated only people parts or elements do they get together?

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Speaker 2: Portions of the get together? Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Where we might be able to be inside watching on a tv, but maybe that's masked now, even with vaccinated adults and in fact it's that maybe question mark that had been the biggest

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Speaker 1: difficulty on the planning because the rules for different households are shifting right now and for us, the etiquette was

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Speaker 1: figuring out what the baseline

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Speaker 1: agreements around precautions were setting those to the standard that everyone could agree to and then

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Speaker 1: planning the event. So there was this whole first phase of

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Speaker 1: zipping up, coordinating exactly how different parents felt what everybody's comfort level was and what was physically possible?

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Speaker 2: Do you feel like it felt

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Speaker 2: a little bit easier just because everyone had kind of been through this at various levels throughout the pandemic pre vaccination,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of those skills came to bear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: It was really my, my brother who was the clearest with me about what he and his family would need in order to participate and talk about classic etiquette essentially. He's,

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Speaker 1: you could say laying down a marker saying, well it's this or we can't do it. And somehow the way it's presented in the way we've all

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Speaker 1: learned to navigate and manage this, it ended up being really helpful because then we had something really concrete that we could all respond to. Everybody could go back to their homes, owns say this is,

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Speaker 1: this is the deal. This is what it would look like. Do we want to do it? Can we do it? And are we going to,

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Speaker 2: do you feel like in the, in the, can we want to do we want to. So like when, when you like bring the, you know, you're on the phone with your brother and, and the, some of the other hosts and you kind of get the idea of what you all think is going to work and you bring it to your spouse, was it? And like just easy. I don't know. For me it seems like it was, it sounds anyway, like it was

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Speaker 2: easier for you all to make quick decisions about what sounded right as opposed to the kind of let me think about that and we'll get back to you, You know, it's obviously there's the, let me check with pooch and see if we feel that's good, but it sounded to me like when we were talking about it before the show

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Speaker 2: that the response was like, oh yeah, check, check, check. Those are all the things I would need to have met. Yeah, let's do it, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yes. And at this stage that helps, it makes it easier. That know the way you're thinking about, it's actually pretty aligned with the way we're thinking about it. There's not a lot of variants

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Speaker 1: and it's really good to be so clear that we are in agreement. So

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Speaker 1: even there, yea, theme of the show, the rules help liberate you, even if it's just, they are sure, you know them, even if they were the ones you would have intended to follow and

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Speaker 2: anyway, right? No, totally, and the

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Speaker 1: places where they don't quite a line where, oh, that's a little more cautious than I would go or oh, I hadn't been thinking about that, it would be really nice for us to be able to go inside and watch at some point or whatever, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, there was a lot of alignment, not everything and it does help. It does help to be used to hearing these things at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, I will start by saying, I'm really bummed that you guys have to coordinate it all that way. I think it was nice in our little Vermont bubble where Delta seemed to be at bay for quite a longer period of time. But

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Speaker 2: I also am really excited that you guys are finding a way to keep some of the normal traditions going. I think that that's what was so hard about last year with so many things that we love and look forward to, we were not able to engage with and we had to just kind of get over it

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Speaker 2: and I'm liking the tone of this fall, especially as in Vermont where the weather gets colder and we are forced indoors more or if you're outdoors, it's like you're, you're bundling up and you're, you know, there's only so long you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be out there.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And so it's, it's nice to think that even even with a higher risk that's in our area now

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Speaker 2: that you can still find ways to get the socializing in the traditions and the wonderful seasonal passing of things that happen or events that happen, I should say that make us feel like we're enjoying the life, we enjoy either up here or with our friends or whatever. So I do think it's cool that you guys have all figured it out and

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna want that phone call Monday morning where you tell me who you got on your fantasy football team this

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Speaker 1: year, the roster said it's looking, it's looking, it's looking good

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Speaker 2: good, good, good. Well,

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Speaker 2: I think that we are looking at a really good script today for the show. So do you think we should get to some of our questions?

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah,

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post instead

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Speaker 1: on instagram were at Emily Post Institute and on facebook. We are awesome etiquette.

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Speaker 1: Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 2: Our first question is titled, who is saying, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Hello. Our PhD student social committee has a question about thank you know etiquette.

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Speaker 2: Our faculty members make donations to sponsor our first social event of the year and we would like to write a thank you note to them for their generosity. Our question is whether the thank you note should be signed from just the social committee. Who manages the funds or if we should encourage all of the students who attended our event

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Speaker 2: to sign the note as well. Thank you for your time and we look forward to hearing your advice. Best dan

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Speaker 1: dan. Thank you so much for the question and a little kudos, high five for participating in a social committee and putting together events. It is people like you who keep the social world going and

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate the etiquette question that has emerged out of it.

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Speaker 1: Before we answer the question, I have to tell a quick story. When I first started working at Emily Post, there was a woman named john Stanton who was

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Speaker 1: one of the more recent hires and she'd been around for a little while, but she had come to Emily Post from the world of nonprofit fundraising. And

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Speaker 1: it was a theme at Emily Post. When I was doing business etiquette there that whenever questions came in about charitable giving, we always turned to dawn and she always had really good advice because that had been her previous career

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Speaker 1: and she had a three tip thought or three etiquette thoughts that she liked to share about

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Speaker 1: nonprofit fundraising. And she always said, make your ask really clear. You wanted to let people know exactly what it was that you were asking them to support. Oftentimes when people do charitable fundraising,

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Speaker 1: the name of the organization is enough in their mind or they understand so well the purpose or the good work that they're working on behalf of that. It's not explained as clearly as it might be.

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Speaker 1: Her second tip was to make your asking no pressure ask to make it clear, but also

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Speaker 1: to let people know that it was really their choice. And then her third tip was to treat your donors like they were people who given you a personal gift that you really responded personally with. Thanks and that you were sure to do it in

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Speaker 1: a form that they would be sure to recognize like a handwritten thank you note. So you are nailing it. You're doing the really good work and in fact you're thinking about it. So well, I think you might be putting a little more pressure on yourself than you need to for an event like this. You don't need to get everybody who attended to do it. In fact, those people who attended aren't all

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Speaker 1: the hosts, even if they are members of the organization that the event

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Speaker 1: was conducted to raise funds for

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Speaker 1: lizzie post, who would you have signed the thank you know?

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Speaker 2: Well, I definitely have the head of this particular student social committee. Do it if not the whole committee and I think either would be perfectly fine if the committee is small. Like three people. Not a bad idea to have all three sign. If it's a 10 person committee, just have the chair of the committee sign. I also think dan that because this is a PhD student social committee and and not something like a,

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Speaker 2: a kids after school program where you might typically see that big card. You know, the teacher makes a gigantic card and all the kids sign it uh, to say thank you for the support for the event.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a little, not the vibe I'm getting from the age group that we're working here for for the attendees for the event. So yeah, I'm feeling pretty firm and keep it, keep it to the social chair committee or the

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Speaker 2: head of that committee

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Speaker 2: as a person signing.

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Speaker 1: I like the way you're thinking about the nature of the thanks, the nature of the event, the nature of the group. The only other tip I had in mind was if there was a person who worked particularly closely with someone, if they were the main point of contact or it was their personal relationship with the person that got them involved,

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Speaker 1: either including them in the note or sometimes that person sends their own note. If they're sort of layering on a personal thanks for doing me this personal favor a for our organization. I can see situations where that person would either want to write their own note or you want to be sure to include them

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Speaker 1: dan. Thank you so much for the question. We hope that the event was a smashing success and that your donors feel appreciated. Here's a group of letters with another purpose.

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Speaker 1: These are letters of thanks. Tell me Nora. Which of these did you really enjoy the most?

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Speaker 1: This is a thank you letter for gift. Now, that's a pretty good example of the sort of thing that makes a letter a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: Mhm.

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Speaker 1: Our next question is about love, marriage and etiquette. Dear, awesome etiquette. I discovered your podcast last year and find it very relaxing and informative. I am a person who tries to practice good etiquette in my interactions with others, although the world today is not one that calls for it as much as it has in the past.

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Speaker 1: I am married to a person who is, shall we say, my complete opposite in this regard?

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Speaker 2: Hey, I guess opposite

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Speaker 1: attracted in this

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Speaker 2: case.

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Speaker 1: My question regards the best way to address a lapse in etiquette without seeming to be, shall we say the nagging wife.

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Speaker 1: We've been through several scenarios throughout our marriage where I feel a situation could have been handled differently. For example, sharing or over sharing information with others that is not really proper to share. I've tried to bring it up tactfully in the past but only managed to make my husband feel as though I was talking down at him, which is never my intention.

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Speaker 1: Is there a right way to go about pointing out lapses in etiquette with one spouse, particularly when said, laps typically results in frustration on both of our parts.

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Speaker 1: Thanks loving and frustrated wife,

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Speaker 2: loving and frustrated wife. This is a tough one. This is a really tough one. Were often the most comfortable with the people were closest to and certainly a spouse relationship is pretty darn close and it's amazing how much that closeness both gives us the permission to space, the latitude

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Speaker 2: to bring up difficult things to share and and walk hand in hand through difficult things together. And at the same time it can be so hard to have that person who loves you so much say

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Speaker 2: anything critical about your behavior, even when they're not intending to be critical, they're intending to be helpful or even

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Speaker 2: even and I think this is what we want to get to with this answer. Even just us being able to share our perspective, you know, not knowing how much of a communication style you have or what your communication style is between each other, how easy or hard it is to bring up corrective type things or personal perspectives within

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Speaker 2: um it's it's a little hard to gauge just exactly how your partner will will respond. But I do think that starting with some of those basics and trying to build conversations where you are opening the space for the two of you to talk about some of these things. So it might be

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Speaker 2: that you don't address it in the moment,

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Speaker 2: that you instead set aside a time maybe once a month where you say I'd really love for us to to work on deepening our relationship and

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Speaker 2: really being able to

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Speaker 2: express and feel the love and respect that we have for each other.

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Speaker 2: And I'd love to talk about some ways we could do that for one another and you start having that that monthly. Like you just set aside the time we're going to do this. We're going to do this as a practice of our marriage

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Speaker 2: in order to start getting these conversations happening. I'm sure there might be things he has on his mind, but he's thinking and just not going to bring him up and it might give him that space to dan. I am not in a marriage. Am I am I like, um, am I dream landing? This? Is this like two ideal of a thing to maybe hope for in a relationship?

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Speaker 1: No, and I think ideals are a great place to start. Okay, good. Because I mean, that's that's the goal, right? Is that you're working towards the relationship that you want and the one that that will really make you happy and

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Speaker 1: as is so often the case happiness lies in that balance between different peoples

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Speaker 1: wants and needs within the relationship as it is. And

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Speaker 1: I I love this question, I love your response to it and that you wanted to start the whole discussion around

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Speaker 1: how you can show each other love and respect. Because for me, that's the whole frame for this,

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Speaker 1: that it's so much easier to make changes when we're doing it for someone else, not because we feel

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Speaker 1: that we're told that we're wrong or that we're doing something incorrectly or that we've missed something or there's something lacking in terms of our perspective or understanding.

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Speaker 1: So the trick of offering information about etiquette in a way that

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Speaker 1: communicates that this is what makes you feel good and respected, not this is what some third party unnamed Unaccountable Rulemaking organizations, as you should do for arbitrary

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Speaker 2: reasons. It's

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Speaker 1: not that you should only talk about religion, politics dating or your

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Speaker 1: love life in these ways in these situations, because

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Speaker 1: podcast host said you should, but because that's what makes your spouse who's with you feel the most comfortable and that there are good reasons why your spouse feels that way or that you at least understand the reasons that

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Speaker 1: the

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Speaker 1: are behind your spouse feeling that way. And that is such a

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Speaker 1: an easier place to work from. So, I I love the idea of building the whole discussion around the idea of fostering and nurturing, loving and respectful relationship.

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Speaker 1: And in that context, you can make small asks like could we

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Speaker 1: talk about how we talk about just these topics in these situations?

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Speaker 2: Because I love that focus on the idea that you want to you want to bring this to the to the relationship and the personal level of of the relationship as opposed to the this book. Are these people say this thing.

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Speaker 2: I think it is often so so much more helpful even when something is a general shared rule out there. Like a lot of people know the

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Speaker 2: don't spill the beans on, you know, relationships, politics money, that sort of thing. It's that's kind of a common one out there, but it doesn't mean everybody knows it and it also doesn't mean everybody thinks it's the right rule, right? We often talk about politics, relationships, religion, these types of things with one another.

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Speaker 2: It's a very, I would say a very breakable rule,

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Speaker 2: but I do think whether it's and maybe it's not so much the when you, I feel because even that on occasion can feel a little bit like an attack, but if you're using the the idea of

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Speaker 2: we have a goal here and in our marriage, I love you and I respect you and I want to to feel loved and respected and return and I want to talk about how we can best do that. Here's an example of when I wasn't feeling it and I hope you could just understand my perspective on that

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Speaker 2: to me, feels less of a you're doing things. I don't like kind of a hammer that comes down

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Speaker 2: and it might just be that that sort of taking a lot of care with your partners

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Speaker 2: emotional state with their, with the reaction that you've gotten a couple of times when you played that as you called it, the nagging wife role? I think adjusting the approach might be the way to soften his ability to enter the conversation.

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Speaker 1: So at the risk of

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Speaker 1: taking this too personal. Can I tell a personal story, of

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Speaker 2: course. Are you kidding me? This is what we live for on the show. I

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Speaker 1: think as you acknowledged as either so much gray area here that I think a really good part of the request is an acknowledgement of that gray area, whether it's talking politics or how much of the family

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Speaker 1: 30 laundry you air in

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Speaker 2: public.

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Speaker 1: There's gray area there. Some people feel really comfortable drawing that line different places and I think acknowledging that what you're wanting to do is talk about where you draw that line within that gray area is one way to to start to show some respect to someone else's

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Speaker 1: perspective or opinions and

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Speaker 1: in my life that you're going to laugh. I think the greatest gray area etiquette for me is the on

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Speaker 2: it's come up on this show all

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Speaker 1: the time going

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Speaker 2: back, this

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Speaker 1: is where it's going to get a little personal.

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Speaker 1: That same issue lives in exactly the way it lives in discourse on this show, in my marital relationship with pooja, that

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Speaker 1: who wants to be able to yawn with me because we're comfortable with each other and it's a place where she doesn't want to be as accountable to that particular etiquette of mine. And for me that's a personal space and I really want that space to feel really respectful and

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Speaker 2: yawns don't feel respectful to you.

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Speaker 1: They communicate differently to me then I know they communicate to a lot of people

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Speaker 2: Well said, Well said, Well said,

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Speaker 1: and we've reached some accord around this through exactly the frame that we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: I get to ask, please don't yawn like that. Not because it's not appropriate. But just because I'm weird about it. I

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Speaker 2: like that

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Speaker 1: and the little good humor that I'm just weird about it. I don't need to talk about all the things that I think about it where and why and how. But just for me that's something that we've asked for and

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Speaker 1: if it doesn't always happen, I remember not to take it personally and not to be offended

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Speaker 1: and that's the give and

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Speaker 2: take because I think what I also really, really here and there is that

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Speaker 2: there isn't uh if you yawn in front of me pooja, you are so disrespecting me. You haven't put so much weight on the issue that it would be unlivable, untenable. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: And I think sometimes when we're navigating these smaller things like sure you might not have wanted them to talk about a recent medical thing you went through to your sister or something like that

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Speaker 2: bad example. But it is it is it a boy and bummed that you did that and I'd prefer you not do it in the future or are you turning into it and we'll flip the phrase nagging husband about it. You know where it's like you put so much weight on it

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Speaker 2: that you're starting to act like all of her love and respect that she very clearly has for you

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Speaker 2: is gone. If she yawns in front of you and I think that's another another one is like the degree to which this is disrespectful or the degree to which this is truly an offense in your world I think is important to recognize that, you know, like you say, I

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Speaker 2: I won't take it super personally if you do yawn in front of me, but boy, I'm really going to appreciate it. If I notice that you make an effort

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Speaker 2: to either cover your mouth or to not to not do it as much as you can. You know,

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that little excuse me goes a long way well, there

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Speaker 2: you go. There you go. Even that one jeez way to not get the magic words in there, lizzie way, but these are, these are delicate things and they're not easy and every couple does have their own language of love and understanding between each other. And I think the more that your focus is on

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Speaker 2: that language being heard and understood between the two of you,

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Speaker 2: the more it's one more addition to making a great marriage rather than one more knocked down or one more, I have to change for you, which I think, you know, no matter whether it's the start of a relationship for 30 years into it, you can you can feel that

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Speaker 1: lizzie post. That is a really nice summation. I think that there is a lucky man out there who is just waiting to be found. I can say thanks

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Speaker 2: Thanks guys. Well, loving and frustrated wife, we hope that we can turn your title into a happy, excited loving wife.

00:25:57

Speaker 2: After answering this question, please do let us know if any of our advice helped

00:26:03

Speaker 1: husband and wife who have learned to give freely to each other into their family have learned the secret of a happy marriage. That kind of love is not

00:26:12

Speaker 2: new, but

00:26:14

Speaker 1: not every man and woman knows where to look for it

00:26:16

Speaker 1: and the only place that exists

00:26:19

Speaker 1: in themselves.

00:26:23

Speaker 1: Our next question is about a gift lys shower.

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Speaker 2: Hello there. I'm early in the second trimester of my first pregnancy expecting our baby in april congratulations!

00:26:35

Speaker 2: This is the first baby on both my and my husband's sides of the family and our family and friends have all expressed immeasurable excitement on our behalf.

00:26:45

Speaker 2: We are hoping Covid willing to be able to have a celebration of this baby sometime this winter and I am looking for some advice regarding what to call it and how to word potential invitations. Although there are many things we need for this baby. My husband and I are lucky to be in a very good financial situation

00:27:05

Speaker 2: and we feel very uncomfortable asking anyone else to contribute financially to our baby's needs.

00:27:11

Speaker 2: That being said, I also recognize that many, many people myself included feel genuine satisfaction and happiness giving gifts as a demonstration of love and celebration

00:27:23

Speaker 2: because of this. I have created a registry which I envision as something I can use as my own shopping list for the baby's needs,

00:27:32

Speaker 2: but ideally also something that people who want to give a gift can use as a guide if they so choose so far. The only person I have shared this list with is my sister who asked for it directly and who has expressed a desire to throw us a baby shower.

00:27:48

Speaker 2: So I guess my question is this,

00:27:50

Speaker 2: is there something else we can call a party to celebrate an impending birth or baby that doesn't obligate the invitees or attendees to buy us anything.

00:28:00

Speaker 2: Any advice on wording for an invitation to something like this beyond that is their way to include the registry link on the invitation for those who want it without creating in others a sense of obligation.

00:28:13

Speaker 2: We really just want our loved ones male and female to gather with us and celebrate and play silly baby themed games. A couple other details that may help inform any advice one. We do not plan on finding out the baby's biological sex prior to babies. The baby's arrival

00:28:30

Speaker 2: and to my sister plans on taking lead on hosting this event, although it would likely be taking place in our home.

00:28:38

Speaker 2: Thank you in advance for any input. Best sarah

00:28:42

Speaker 1: sarah, thank you so much for the question and just again, congratulations was an exciting time in life and I really like the way that you're thinking about this. the trouble that people sometimes get into around showers is when they aren't

00:28:56

Speaker 1: really holding in mind the two different ways that someone might feel about. A big gift giving party,

00:29:02

Speaker 1: that it can be a wonderful, beautiful expression of people's love care and support for each other.

00:29:08

Speaker 1: And it can also be seen as a pretty craft material exchange. And

00:29:13

Speaker 1: the more you can do to keep the focus on that

00:29:17

Speaker 1: option, a the better off the events going to go. And I think sometimes the instant can be to pull back entirely from the gifts to say, oh, we just want to keep this out of it so that we can really keep the focus on all of those good things that we want to keep it on.

00:29:31

Speaker 1: And that's not always entirely possible. So again, kudos for thinking ahead and even just the way you're approaching the thought

00:29:41

Speaker 1: tells me that you're probably going to find and a pretty good solution and make pretty good choices along the way.

00:29:48

Speaker 1: First thing big picture because and I want to start off not calling it a shower right away. Let's call it a new child celebration. Is that a good idea?

00:29:57

Speaker 2: Sure. And I think we know it's a baby in this case, not not an older child being adopted. So you could, you could say like a welcoming baby or a pregnancy celebration. That could be another way to theme it.

00:30:10

Speaker 1: So even to starting to take the focus away from the word shower, I think it's a good place to start. But

00:30:17

Speaker 1: also that

00:30:19

Speaker 1: whatever you call it, the, there's a baby coming and it's the first one, both in our sort of immediate family unit and in our larger extended family.

00:30:31

Speaker 1: The reality of people wanting to give you something and support you and particularly do it around that party and that celebration is,

00:30:40

Speaker 1: is a reality that you're going to be dealing with. And because of that, you get to say things about gifts on the invitation to this party like you do with very few others

00:30:50

Speaker 2: sort of can I jump in for a sec because please. So technically showers are the only event where you can put a registry link on a registry information on the invitation itself because

00:31:05

Speaker 2: the invitation is creating an obligation. I know a wedding does that too, but that's a little bit different of an event. The shower, the entire purpose of it, the whole thing is about giving gifts to the person being honored. Like there is no other

00:31:22

Speaker 2: point of this party. And so for the shower in particular, if you call it a shower, putting that registry information on I think is okay. But if you call it something else like a pregnancy celebration or pregnancy party or uh, sometimes people call them sip and sees, but that's for after the baby's born, where you come over for often

00:31:44

Speaker 2: a little drink, whether it's, it's puncher, it's a mimosa or something like that and you meet the baby and that's also a party that doesn't necessarily have to come with gifts. But is around sort of baby welcoming a new baby into into a family's life.

00:31:59

Speaker 2: Those parties. I could see you leaving the registry information off of and just giving it to people if they asked if they say something like I'd really love to get you guys a gift. Do you have some kind of a list or any ideas?

00:32:12

Speaker 2: But for me, because if Sarah is really not wanting any gifts or to suggest or put the pressure on for gifts, I think you need to not call it a shower

00:32:21

Speaker 2: and I think you need to not make the registry information readily available alongside the invitation. I think that those are the two things that will accomplish what it sounds like she's wanting to do. I want to put this out there as well. You've got your sister who wants to host this event for you. Even if it is going to take place in your home,

00:32:42

Speaker 2: you've got the first baby on both sides of the family coming this spring. I'm thinking maybe just go for the shower, go for the traditional, if you want to play the baby games, you want to do the baby things during it. Just to me, it feels like

00:32:59

Speaker 2: we're basically doing a shower but saying we'd be okay if you didn't get us gifts at this, you know, for the shower.

00:33:06

Speaker 2: And so my thought is to actually call it a shower, include the registry information for those who are going to want to get gifts. And then really clearly state

00:33:16

Speaker 2: that while we know and you could even, you could even put this like on the back of the invitation or on an insert, you could say, well, we know many folks want to celebrate and show their love via gifts.

00:33:26

Speaker 2: We also want to be very clear that we would welcome any advice or well wishes as a tremendous gift to us at this particular time. We are able to take care of ourselves and we really just want to celebrate this exciting moment with you.

00:33:43

Speaker 2: If I received an invitation like that, I'd be like, oh cool, this is like a shower, but it's like a shower light. Like if I, if I don't get a gift, they're gonna be okay and I can still attend or not attend. You know, to me that would probably be the way you're going because because what you're throwing sounds like it's gonna be so very close to a shower.

00:34:03

Speaker 2: And there are plenty of people who have done showers, where the theme is we would like your best baby advice or we would like your best well wishes for our new family

00:34:12

Speaker 1: lizzie. When you say shower light, I had been going to ask you what's the Sprinkle party.

00:34:16

Speaker 2: What's the Sprinkle party Sprinkle isn't the same as Sprinkles for first to third babies coming where you just need a little bit. And sometimes those sprinkles are exactly what we're talking about here, where

00:34:27

Speaker 2: they say we want to gather to celebrate this pregnancy in this new baby. But we really, we had a kid two years ago, we've got everything we need. It's

00:34:37

Speaker 1: appropriate what I always liked about. And this is tricky etiquette territory. The idea of that second shower that Sprinkle that second baby um celebration party

00:34:48

Speaker 1: is that in many ways it acknowledged that the nature of the shower wasn't just practical gift giving. It's not just about setting up first time parents, that

00:34:59

Speaker 1: there is a lot to gift giving that's about um passing on a tradition. I, my mother made an afghan for me and now I'm making an afghan for you or maybe it's about knowledge or information. This was a gift that we got. That was something

00:35:15

Speaker 1: we didn't know about because we never had a baby before and it was an initiate ori experience into the world of parenting in some way sort of

00:35:23

Speaker 1: through a thing that there are so many

00:35:27

Speaker 1: ways that a gift communicates that it's not just about practical gift giving.

00:35:33

Speaker 1: One of my favorite themes for showers and is uh set up our child's library theme book theme and sharing favorite Children's books, books that were read to you? Books that you found worked really well with your kids or

00:35:48

Speaker 1: kids that are important in your life? Is

00:35:51

Speaker 1: to me such a, such a rich opportunity and

00:35:55

Speaker 1: you might think about something like that, a theme that takes the gift giving into that. Let's build memories kind of thought in category as opposed to the let's stock the nursery first time

00:36:08

Speaker 2: because you just reminded me to that another great gift that's not a physical gift is a gift of experience. So

00:36:15

Speaker 2: saying things like you know, giving a gift certificate for a trip to a local Children's museum or something or a walk with the baby or something like that are all really valuable things to. They really are. I mean I know that my sister probably appreciated me coming over um to spend time with her and baby Delphine last year

00:36:38

Speaker 2: more than any baby blanket I could have knitted or little outfit I could have bought. You know, but it was that spending time together especially in that first year when everything is

00:36:49

Speaker 2: so new and there are so many adjustments and your your schedule is just you've had no sleep. Um that that those gifts of your time can also really really be wonderful gifts to. So that might be something to mention as you make the suggestion for things other than physical, you know, store bought or handmade gifts

00:37:07

Speaker 2: that people might might gravitate towards

00:37:10

Speaker 1: sara all this. Talk about new babies has just got me so excited. Thank you for sharing a little bit of that excitement with us. And we hope our answer helps and the party planning goes smoothly. How do you go about being thoughtful?

00:37:24

Speaker 2: What do you do

00:37:26

Speaker 1: every time I try I only make things worse.

00:37:29

Speaker 1: Is there some particular method of being thoughtful that works every time?

00:37:40

Speaker 1: Our next question might sound like it comes from the past, but it is a current question about desk phones.

00:37:48

Speaker 1: Dear Emily Post Institute. I had a question regarding the use of desk phones in relation to working quarters. For example, is it correct that if someone calls you at your desk and someone else answers the call because you're not there and takes a message of

00:38:03

Speaker 1: Please call Suzy back at extension 444 regarding X. Y or Z.

00:38:08

Speaker 1: That you can then call Suzy back at the extension. But if Susie doesn't answer her desk phone right away, then you stay on the phone and let it ring. Hoping she may have just stepped away from her desk and we'll be right back to answer your call.

00:38:20

Speaker 1: Considering she just told your co worker to have you call her at that number.

00:38:25

Speaker 1: I had someone mentioned that it wasn't for Emily Post to do that.

00:38:29

Speaker 1: Let the desk phone ring until the person answers.

00:38:32

Speaker 1: And I wanted to inquire to see what you had to say. As I couldn't find it otherwise mentioned regarding this scenario sincerely. William.

00:38:40

Speaker 2: William. Thank you so much for asking this question. You're bringing me back to the days of our

00:38:46

Speaker 2: Our larger 12 person team and our office on Union Street at Emily Post and I cannot tell you how much we miss between Dan and I the intercom system because we used to just buzz each other and it was, it was great. You could see if someone was on the line so you knew you couldn't buzz them if they were on a call, you could however easily interrupt someone's meeting. So there was a lot of actually I'm talking with Elizabeth right now, do you might like I'll get back to you in a bit or something like that.

00:39:17

Speaker 2: But I loved being able to just one button and my voice comes in in your office. I can ask you where to find that thing, spell that thing if you've done that thing. It was so great. It was so, so great. It was one of the things we really lost and we replaced that particular feature with text message between the two of us and it's not the same. Like I totally missed the like

00:39:38

Speaker 1: be

00:39:39

Speaker 2: because that I would hear coming from you or something like that.

00:39:43

Speaker 2: But this is a little bit different. Someone has called you. You missed the call, you are calling them back and how long do you let that phone ring because you're right, technically that person Suzy, she just called you so she should theoretically be around ready to take your call back

00:40:02

Speaker 2: and of course we all do things like go to the restroom, grab a cup of coffee, get caught up in a quick conversation, go grab something at the copier

00:40:10

Speaker 2: things like

00:40:10

Speaker 1: that. Make

00:40:12

Speaker 2: the next call on our list. And usually if you're making the next call on the list, you will be sent to a voicemail. But if you're just buzzing into an extension, I could see where it might ring and ring and ring and ring.

00:40:24

Speaker 2: It's not that it's not Emily post to do it, but I will say that it's not very polite, especially if you've got multiple people in one office or any kind of an open office scenario going on or a cubicle scenario going on

00:40:37

Speaker 2: to let a phone just rings like that. In fact, it's probably why Suzy's co worker picked up the phone in the first place at not their own desk.

00:40:46

Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, it's like, is it Emily opposed to do, is it not? I'd say for me personally, if I didn't hear Susie pick up after about four rings, I would hang up or I would leave the message and given the way my brain works, I would probably do something like either if we have an I am service. If we have a slack channel going,

00:41:06

Speaker 2: I would probably message her via that and say, hey,

00:41:09

Speaker 2: just tried you that sort of just tried you back. Like I'm back at my desk will be until this time, feel free to call any time or I might if it's an external thing use email. So if I'm going to someone outside of my company and just say, you know, hi Susie just gave you a ring back, must have missed you. Please call me at your earliest convenience.

00:41:29

Speaker 2: Basically what's happening here is you're initiating phone tag,

00:41:32

Speaker 2: like its tag, you're it, you know, now we're in a game of trying to catch each other and we're not in the same physical space. So it makes it a little a little funny sometimes we'll say,

00:41:41

Speaker 1: all I can say is total victory.

00:41:44

Speaker 2: What's the victory?

00:41:46

Speaker 1: Well too, and that's why it's a total victory one A plus business answer. I've got some business etiquette seminars, I'm ready for you to go deliver.

00:41:54

Speaker 2: Really. You got, you wanna take on some of the wedding ones for me, we can swap deal and deal

00:42:01

Speaker 1: and shoot. The reason I'm so excited is I I love the start of the answer. Just and it's so hard for us to say, oh that's not Emily post because that's not the way we think of it. And

00:42:15

Speaker 1: when you really get down to it, Yeah, about four or five rings and it's up to you to not, it's like going to someone's front door and just knocking and knocking and

00:42:23

Speaker 2: knocking and knocking and knocking. Very good analogy

00:42:26

Speaker 1: at some point. No, it is rude and they know if they're not there, it doesn't hurt anybody and if they are there, you can say, well why aren't they answering the front door?

00:42:35

Speaker 1: Well, any of 1000 reasons, so stop

00:42:37

Speaker 2: knocking

00:42:41

Speaker 1: and it's it's so easy

00:42:44

Speaker 1: to do this wrong. I do this to my brother all the time, I call him and

00:42:50

Speaker 1: I'll be thinking about something else and the phone will ring. And in particularly he also still has a home landline that rings and rings and rings and doesn't go to a voicemail. So I think I'm used to in my mind

00:43:03

Speaker 1: calling cell phones where it'll cut and go to a voicemail at some point. So that's the one phone where I have to hold myself accountable to this internal etiquette and I make the mistake all the time because I'm just not used to it. It's not muscle memory for me at this point,

00:43:17

Speaker 1: But it's etiquette, muscle memory and about Ring 789, I'm imagining

00:43:23

Speaker 1: my brother and his wife trying to take care of their daughters get dinner cooked. I know how busy their house gets for the phone that's just ringing and ringing and ringing and what will that person just to hang up and so I apologize to him if he picks up after a tendering or um if the next time I talked to him, I

00:43:42

Speaker 1: oftentimes later that night realized I just sat there with the phone ringing. Um so I I like that as a jumping off point. Do your best hold yourself

00:43:52

Speaker 1: accountable to not being that overly persistent neighbor. But I love love love your follow up thought about using some of those other methods of communication that are at your disposal because voicemails don't always get listened to messages that people take particularly

00:44:10

Speaker 1: personal messages. They picked up the phone and told you

00:44:14

Speaker 1: it's they call it phone tag for a reason those messages are very easy to get wrong, get mixed up, get not delivered

00:44:22

Speaker 1: and the idea that you would just want to be certain that you let someone know that you have both received their message and that you had tried to reach them back and how you had done it

00:44:30

Speaker 1: I think is a plus business etiquette. My brother for a call about the fantasy football league doesn't need that kind of care attention. But for a business etiquette question, I think it's a really good follow up thought,

00:44:43

Speaker 2: William! Thank you so much for bringing us back into the office

00:44:48

Speaker 2: and asking this question, We hope our answer helps.

00:44:53

Speaker 1: These words are important when you are using the telephone,

00:44:57

Speaker 1: they will help you to be kind and considerate of other people.

00:45:05

Speaker 2: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com leave a voicemail or text message at 802858 kind That's 8028585463 or reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute

00:45:27

Speaker 2: and on facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:45:37

Speaker 1: If you love awesome etiquette, consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air

00:45:54

Speaker 1: and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.

00:45:59

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover and today we have feedback from Catherine,

00:46:07

Speaker 1: Dear lizzie and dan. I have had a recent etiquette breakthrough and I wanted to share with you about a year ago, I resolved to get better at remembering details about people.

00:46:17

Speaker 1: I hated the moments when a co worker would reference his trip to Hawaii for example and I would say, oh right, how was your vacation? As if that counted for remembering it.

00:46:28

Speaker 1: I also never like asking or being asked so what's new? So I began jotting down notes on my phone after interesting conversations reminding myself to ask if a friend's wife is feeling better how his garden is coming along or just writing down what we talked about.

00:46:44

Speaker 1: I try to glance back at the notes before catching up with a friend or co worker that makes me a better conversationalist and small talker. I wanted to share my etiquette triumph with you and ask if you have any additional thoughts on this topic. I hope that other listeners might find this trick as useful as I have Warmest regards Catherine,

00:47:04

Speaker 2: Catherine, I absolutely love your feedback because I am someone who has been feeling like she

00:47:11

Speaker 2: doesn't ask enough questions of other people. I don't know if it's just because dan and I get asked so many questions whether we're being interviewed for something or it's on this podcast or whatever is going on. I feel like there's often questions coming my way

00:47:24

Speaker 2: and I realized on this trip that I went on that I don't think I was asking as many questions and sort of being inquisitive about other people's lives

00:47:33

Speaker 2: as I should have been. And so Catherine, I loved your suggestion. I am going to be doing it and reminding myself to ask and engage more with those around me because I I was I was feeling the same. I was feeling the same.

00:47:49

Speaker 1: I just love the whole spirit of this and it could triumph. The willingness to to want to try new things but then give yourself some time to let those changes have effects. I

00:48:02

Speaker 1: I just so appreciate hearing this feedback Catherine and thank you for letting us share in your triumph.

00:48:07

Speaker 2: We also have some feedback on episode 2 98. Hi Dan and Lizzie. I'm writing in response to the etiquette situation where the person writing in was seeking emotional support from their friend.

00:48:19

Speaker 2: The writer texted their friend asking for support, but the friend never ended up replying to the text message, even though the readers saw the friend had read the message.

00:48:30

Speaker 2: My feedback is that I think when asking for support from a friend, it's considerate to check in and get consent before opening up an emotional conversation. Here's a sample script and I loved the script.

00:48:42

Speaker 2: Hi friend, I'm having a tough day today. I'm wondering if you have the emotional space to support me today.

00:48:49

Speaker 2: That's the end of the quote.

00:48:50

Speaker 2: I like the emotional check in because it lets people opt into giving support while also giving them an out if they aren't able to give support for whatever reason anonymous, it's a great tip.

00:49:02

Speaker 1: I like it too. And I like the reminder that just because we ask for something doesn't mean we're necessarily going to receive it or that we wrote it,

00:49:11

Speaker 1: yep, anonymous. Thank you for the perspective.

00:49:13

Speaker 2: Thank you all for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463.

00:49:41

Speaker 2: Okay.

00:49:44

Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to start a two part series. Take note, be sure to tune in next week

00:49:52

Speaker 2: on

00:49:53

Speaker 1: invitations.

00:49:55

Speaker 1: We're going to be looking at invitation from the host perspective. Next week we'll be looking at responding to invitations and I just have to tell everyone a little bit of background on this which is that lizzie Post went to our website to look for information.

00:50:07

Speaker 2: This is shameful. This is shameful. And I'm going to flip that script and

00:50:13

Speaker 1: what she discovered, let me put words in your mouth, placebos

00:50:17

Speaker 1: was that

00:50:18

Speaker 1: we had a lot of information about responding to invitations and that's because we have learned that the R. S. V. P. It's a really important topic Connecticut. So we wanted to have a lot of information for people about the importance of the R. S. V. P. And

00:50:32

Speaker 1: the weight maybe got a little bit on the

00:50:34

Speaker 2: response side.

00:50:35

Speaker 1: And there wasn't an overarching article about

00:50:38

Speaker 1: just creating an invitation from scratch for all kinds of different events and thus a post script was born host. Would you like to take us away?

00:50:47

Speaker 2: Absolutely. I feel like even though we are still two months away from what is technically the holiday season and even really like

00:50:56

Speaker 2: maybe even like 2.5 months away from it, If you think about thanksgiving is the kickoff, I really feel like invitations, especially for holiday stuff, they come early and it's a good time for us to be thinking about how to be issuing them well so that we get the desired effect, people coming to our parties

00:51:16

Speaker 2: and also how to be responding to them. Well, so this is our kind of

00:51:20

Speaker 2: pregame for the holiday stuff that is going to start to descend on the awesome etiquette audience in the next couple of months.

00:51:27

Speaker 1: Very good.

00:51:29

Speaker 2: And I think the most important piece of advice we could start with

00:51:33

Speaker 2: is that for hosts, it is so imperative that you are clear with your invitation, what are you inviting someone to, what are the necessary details they need to know. Typically this is what's happening. Who's hosting? Where is it, when is it,

00:51:54

Speaker 2: are we gonna need to bring anything or are there any special details you know about being able to participate? Well in this event, whatever it is and I think that these are classics. We all, we all think we kind of know them. But

00:52:09

Speaker 2: even if you're doing a casual invitation via text message to a group you entertain with regularly. So you want to be really clear, even if these are friends that come over all the time to replace that this event is being held at your house,

00:52:23

Speaker 1: that would be the where

00:52:25

Speaker 1: you

00:52:25

Speaker 2: Want to let them know exactly when it's occurring, even if you typically only ever do things on Friday evenings after seven pm

00:52:32

Speaker 1: and have a loose start time. That would be the, when, that would be the, when

00:52:35

Speaker 2: you want to make it clear that you're the ones inviting. We would love you to come to, you know, that sort of thing.

00:52:43

Speaker 1: We and you, that would be the who

00:52:46

Speaker 2: and I like that. Who comes up twice, right? It's who's hosting and who's being invited. So make it clear on that outer envelope or make it clear

00:52:54

Speaker 2: with that message that you send families, welcome, kids, welcome or you know, just adults for the night or just the one person's name. Now, typically if you're inviting a couple, you would not invite only one member of the couple unless you already happen to know that the other member of the couple was out of town or something that weekend.

00:53:14

Speaker 2: So again,

00:53:15

Speaker 2: who,

00:53:16

Speaker 2: I think it's also really great to make sure that what it is that's going to happen is really clear. Is this a birthday party, Is this a casual pizza and movie night? Is it a potluck? Those kinds of things are really important to

00:53:29

Speaker 1: knowing what you're attending is definitely important. And even if it's not explicit,

00:53:35

Speaker 1: it should be communicated in the invitation.

00:53:37

Speaker 2: Absolutely.

00:53:39

Speaker 1: And I like lizzie on your script notes that you have the who, what, when, where And that's my little pneumonic for thinking about an invitation. But I like this little and extras, if there is something about a tire or a potluck that would be important. Extra information.

00:53:56

Speaker 1: You definitely want to include that as well.

00:53:58

Speaker 2: Typically a traditional invitation is going to read really nicely like a sentence. Who are we inviting to? What event? When is it happening? Where is it happening? When is it happening? Anything specific the guest needs to know? And it should flow that way right? Like

00:54:16

Speaker 2: please join us for a party to honor a Nisha's fourth birthday. You know, I know really clear. And then listing out on saturday july 4th, her birthday is not july 4th at two p.m.

00:54:31

Speaker 2: But it really lets you know exactly all the information and it makes sense in the in the flow of how you'd want to find it out. It makes it easy and clear again. We're going back to that big word

00:54:42

Speaker 2: that we want all hosts to focus on the word clear. You want to clearly invite people make it very easy for them to say yes or no. We also add to all of these classics that we happen to think. RSVPs are wonderful. I don't think it's a great idea to just leave it regrets only or not. Ask for an R. S. V. P. In this day and age. People just aren't

00:55:03

Speaker 2: trained as well on the R. S. V. P. I'm going to say it that way. We just aren't it's not as much of a habit for us. It's why we get so many emails. So many questions to the institute about R. S. V. P. In dead, like what's going on here. So I think it's best to always include an R. S. V. P. And include the person who needs to be Rs with the R. S. V. P. Should be issued to

00:55:25

Speaker 2: you include their name and you include some form of contact information. That could be an email. It could be a phone number. Um you could even say please text your R. S. V. P. Two and list a phone number. Those are all perfectly appropriate. If you needed it to be your handwritten RSVP'd then of course you would write the address of the person

00:55:43

Speaker 2: that you'd want it sent to, that sort of thing.

00:55:45

Speaker 2: Really, really important to include that. R. S. V. P

00:55:49

Speaker 1: lizzie, something I like about thinking about the R. S. V. P. Is that it also gets me thinking about the method that you're issuing the invitation in because the two are going to be related.

00:55:59

Speaker 1: If your invitation is a printed or handwritten invitation, you might get an R. S. V. P. In written form, it might arrive in the mail. There's

00:56:07

Speaker 2: a there's a heavy might on that audience. Heavy might

00:56:11

Speaker 1: stranger things have happened. But

00:56:15

Speaker 1: but obviously if if that invitation comes as a an email and there's a button response on the email invitation itself that rsv, he's going to look like something very different and

00:56:28

Speaker 1: in some ways thinking about the invitation, that's the most likely to both reach people and be something that they can see and respond to. But also that sets the right tone for your event is an important part of the process. So for some people, it might mean that you follow that

00:56:46

Speaker 1: printed mailed invitation with a follow up phone call because

00:56:50

Speaker 1: you know, they move around a lot or maybe aren't even at their apartment where you mailed it right now or whatever it might be, but really be thinking about the

00:56:58

Speaker 1: functionality of the method of your invitation, both for delivering your message, but also for setting the tone for the party or the event that you're trying to host.

00:57:06

Speaker 2: Exactly, a facebook invite to me is always considered a casual invitation. Whereas if I see something in the mail, and frankly, even when I get a text message, just because text messages quick and casual to me, it doesn't always downgrade to casual invitation necessarily. Like I've received a lot of more serious text message invites than I have via, for instance, something like a social network.

00:57:32

Speaker 2: And as we've learned to the in person invite

00:57:35

Speaker 2: is not just let's get together, it's let's get together, can you make Tuesday night or I will call you friday so that we can set something up the, hey, let's get together sometime is not a real invitation. It's a suggestion

00:57:52

Speaker 2: dan. One of the other things to think about and we actually have a really fantastic link to this. This was a good article on our website, is the timing of the invitation. You really want to make sure that you give enough time for your guests to check their schedules, check with their

00:58:08

Speaker 2: partners, their kids schedules, their babies, you know, a babysitter if you need to get a babysitter for the event

00:58:14

Speaker 2: or to leave enough time if you know that your crowd tends to book up fast. So when I start hearing among my social group that people are pretty busy this summer, I realized that if I was going to throw anything, I needed to probably send even a casual backyard barbecue invite about a month ahead of time, which might seem absolutely ludicrous,

00:58:35

Speaker 2: but it's not. If you're really trying to actually catch your audience, make sure you're on people's calendars early. I would probably send some kind of a follow up two weeks before the event to say really looking forward to seeing you actually just Yeah, exactly. Right, Right, right. Actually just had a friend do this and it was incredible.

00:58:53

Speaker 2: She has a lake house on one of the beautiful lakes here in Vermont and

00:58:56

Speaker 2: they're going to hire a band and it will be a nice outdoor party, but people will be able to kind of bring their boats up to the place where the band is set up. So there'll be some people partying on their boats, some people partying on the lawn. I think it's going to be really, really fun. I've been excited for it. She sent that invitation via text message to all of her girlfriends

00:59:16

Speaker 2: About six weeks before the party

00:59:18

Speaker 2: and it's fantastic. She then reminded us and then there was a double check in just this week about it and I felt a so included, like I wasn't just going to show up and maybe, maybe it was like, oh yeah, I forgot we invited lizzie, you know,

00:59:33

Speaker 2: three people are, there goes, my social anxiety and insecurity has come out,

00:59:39

Speaker 2: but it's it's really true. We I got to double check with her about whether it was bringing Sonny that my dog or not, you know, and what kind of vibe does she need help? Would she like her girlfriends to come help clean beforehand? And of course her answers were no, don't bring anything, yes, I'm all set on cleaning where we just want you to show up and have an amazing time,

00:59:58

Speaker 2: but it was so wonderful. And it kind of kept peppering me up for the event to have this long lead, get followed up a couple times. So it's important to think about that timing and especially during a kind of stranger time that we're all in where

01:00:14

Speaker 2: were partially vaccinated, partially not people's schedules seem to be changing a little a little more be a little different from

01:00:21

Speaker 2: I think probably 2019 life and it's just nice to recognize that give that extra long lead time.

01:00:28

Speaker 1: I love the reminder about the reminder. My brain can keep track of social engagements about one weekend into the future and that's not the weekend after next, That's the weekend. That's coming in somewhere between three and

01:00:43

Speaker 1: two days. Right?

01:00:44

Speaker 2: It

01:00:46

Speaker 1: if we're really talking about the appointments for the following weekend, there's a very good chance I've replied in the affirmative and have no idea what I've committed to or not. And the idea that you would

01:00:58

Speaker 1: both give someone enough lead time to be able to say yes, but then also pay them the courtesy of

01:01:04

Speaker 1: staying in touch about

01:01:07

Speaker 1: an event that might have a month lead time I think is really wise because there are people like me out there and I think lizzie post that the reminder to be patient is also really important. And I love the spirit or the tone that you described with that party where

01:01:26

Speaker 1: it got you accept it was almost like it continued to tease it forward and draw you in more or the tone wasn't

01:01:34

Speaker 2: don't forget

01:01:35

Speaker 1: you said you would be here, it was, it's

01:01:39

Speaker 2: getting closer account now or

01:01:40

Speaker 1: whatever it is, the nature of the way those contacts happen. We're ramping you up to the event.

01:01:47

Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very much so. I'm so excited to see you.

01:01:50

Speaker 2: People will have everything ready by noon, most people are going to show up around two.

01:01:55

Speaker 2: The Bandel started this time. Like it was so just giving information and letting us know. She was so excited that we would be there. It was, it was great. It was, it was really great. You're right. It was not a double checking that you haven't forgotten. Like the tone was excellent to rev us up for this weekend.

01:02:16

Speaker 1: We say patience is a virtue and giving other people the credit of goodwill and good intentions is just so important wall.

01:02:25

Speaker 1: We heard cats and that's the job of a host these days. And I think probably there's always been a certain aspect of that role that has been difficult for just that reason. We

01:02:37

Speaker 2: certainly hope audience that this inspires you all to jump on it. Get some events set up as safely as you can and to invite your guests.

01:02:46

Speaker 1: Well,

01:02:47

Speaker 1: you see now are different letters have different purposes, they do all kinds of things. There are letters of invitation

01:02:55

Speaker 1: and some of them are formal ones.

01:03:02

Speaker 2: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms today. We have a salute from happy hiker to brian

01:03:15

Speaker 1: hi awesome etiquette crew. I am excited to send you this etiquette salute from today.

01:03:20

Speaker 1: I work for a large park district in a metropolitan area but because of Covid, my usual job of doing hands on learning with visitors had to change.

01:03:29

Speaker 1: I now spend my time working as a park ambassador being a friendly, albeit socially distanced face.

01:03:35

Speaker 1: I answer questions, give trail recommendations and provide orientation for the influx of new park visitors caused by Covid.

01:03:43

Speaker 1: Today I worked in a different park than I usually do so I decided to orient myself with a short hike on one of the more popular trails.

01:03:51

Speaker 1: About halfway through my hike, I met brian a school bus driver. He told me he loved the park and regularly spends a few hours between his work shifts exploring its beauty and serenity.

01:04:02

Speaker 1: When I told him this park was new to me, he joyfully invited me to join him on the second half of the trail. He made sure to point out all the trails best features like the best spot to view the waterfall, the really interesting mushrooms that popped up since the morning rain and a huge oak tree more than five ft in diameter.

01:04:19

Speaker 1: I felt as if he were the park ambassador and I was the visitor.

01:04:23

Speaker 1: As we walked brian even stopped to pick up a discarded water bottles along the trail and carry it out to a recycling bin. He said he tries to take at least one piece of trash with him every time he visits it was a delightful surprise to find such a welcoming and kind soul on the trail.

01:04:40

Speaker 1: Thank you brian for showing me all the delights of the green trail and for helping to keep the metro parks clean for everyone

01:04:49

Speaker 1: best happy hiker.

01:04:50

Speaker 2: Oh just claps for that one brian is the kind of guy we all want to run into. I love that that he always takes a piece of trash he finds on the trail with him out. This must have been a dream for our happy hiker to run into. Thank you so much for sharing this salute. Happy hiker.

01:05:07

Speaker 1: It's so nice to hear

01:05:10

Speaker 1: and thank you for listening.

01:05:13

Speaker 2: Thanks to everyone who sent us something and who supports us of course on patreon,

01:05:19

Speaker 1: please do connect with us and share the show with friends, family and co workers. However you like to share podcast,

01:05:25

Speaker 2: you can send us questions, feedback and salutes by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com by phone. You can leave us a message or text message at 802858 kind That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post institute,

01:05:49

Speaker 1: please do consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

01:05:57

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01:06:07

Speaker 2: etiquette. Our show is edited by Chris Albertine, an assistant produced by Brigitte Dowd, Thanks, Kris and Kris and Brigitte.