Episode 37 - The Long Hallway Greeting

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Speaker 1: I swear I am ready and I just made that made me feel good. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy,

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Speaker 2: host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect thinking of the other person, Real friendliness coming

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Speaker 1: up on this episode of awesome etiquette. A question about the phrase going dutch, how to handle hellos in a long hallway dealing with body odor that's not your own And more of your questions answered

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of Vermont public radio and is proud to be a part of the infinite guest network from american public media.

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Speaker 1: I'm lizzie post

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Speaker 2: and I'm dan post Senning from the Emily Post Institute

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Speaker 1: dan your wedding. No

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Speaker 2: 10

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Speaker 1: nine. So what is the count? How many days out are we?

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Speaker 2: Oh 10 9, 10 depending on how you count day over day before.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm freaking out because my, sorry, hasn't arrived yet. I have an email sitting there about if I can speed up the shipping or not and I'm waiting till after the show to open it because I'm so terrified it's going to say no and I won't have a sorry for your wedding.

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Speaker 2: I'm standing on the porch. I'm talking to my mother, the ministers on hold the Fedex trucks pulls up and I said, oh, this is going to be and it could have been one of four or five delivery anyway, more like two or three deliveries. But still it feels like there's an acceleration to, to everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on. I had your bachelor party last weekend

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Speaker 2: I did and it was so much fun, nothing salacious. Um

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Speaker 2: in fact it was really relaxing. It was exactly what I would have wanted for my bachelor party. It's a chance to celebrate some old friendships and spend some time with some people that can, your

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Speaker 1: brother got to come

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Speaker 2: down such a treat to days. Uninterrupted time with my brother.

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Speaker 1: They like live on the same hill, basically opposite sides of the mountain, sort of your, your parents actually live on the same hill as well, but

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Speaker 2: exactly the same side of the mountain all on the same mountain, but they're different

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Speaker 1: sides. Yeah, they're called different things, which is kind of funny,

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Speaker 2: but,

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Speaker 1: but he got to come down, so it really felt like,

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Speaker 2: yes, it felt like everything that I would have wanted my bachelor party to feel like highlight just a little something else. There.

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Speaker 2: One of my friends who was coming from California on his way to africa, he's going on. Safari brought a drone that he uses for his landscaping business in California and he's taking it out into the, the Okavango Delta to watch game.

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Speaker 2: But we had this drone.

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Speaker 1: Okavango Delta,

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Speaker 2: it's weird. Well we'll talk about the Delta some other time, but to have an eye in the sky and this, this guy is such a prankster and um this is the toy has been waiting his whole life for.

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Speaker 2: So it's sort of fun if, if anyone out there's ever played with a drone that was a new experience and a fun one out on the paddleboard

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Speaker 2: out on the water and all of a sudden this mosquito comes down and is circling around you and you know, someone a mile away is watching you. That's

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Speaker 1: so creepy. But so cool. So

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Speaker 2: cool. So creepy etiquette points. Yeah, we were really careful. Um,

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Speaker 2: most people, you know, you pass a boat, they get excited. It's

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Speaker 1: no, this is drone etiquette happening now on the

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Speaker 2: people are still excited. People weren't, um, it's a new enough thing that they would see it and they would wave and try to get its attention. It's

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Speaker 1: known enough now that people don't see it and go, what the heck! You know, it's like, oh, it's a drone. Someone's watching, I can wave

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Speaker 2: like, yes, it's

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Speaker 1: starting to become comfortable new territory.

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Speaker 2: And my impression was that there aren't so many of them that it's annoying people

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Speaker 1: yet at

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Speaker 2: the same time we were really careful sort of that whole ambassador new technology thing don't get too close. Don't push up onto someone's picnic. Um, because that would annoy me. Anyway, so right, kind of a little etiquette twist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I,

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Speaker 1: yeah, I had a busy weekend. I went down to boston with my soon to be roommates, Jacqueline and stayed with her family and we went to a, um, for the Forbes houses down in, I think, I think the town is Milton

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Speaker 2: massachusetts

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Speaker 1: and they are all big supporters of it. And so we went to a Forbes house charity event, which was

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Speaker 1: Benny, I'm sorry, I forgot to take off his stuff and it's loud and

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Speaker 1: he's very much a part of the show, but he doesn't need to be that much a part of this.

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Speaker 2: Part of

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Speaker 1: the Forbes house is um,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a museum at this point and um talks, it's focused originally was a lot on the um Forbes uh relationship with with the china trade and the work that they did there. And now it's a bit more related to, I think the family itself. Um and there's even like an abraham Lincoln historian who's a part of it or something like that. There's a couple of different connections, but

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Speaker 1: they threw a Gatsby themed charity event to raise money for the house and and keeping it up and and making sure that it's still accessible to the public and

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Speaker 2: everything.

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Speaker 1: I was, I was flattered out. Jacqueline lent me a beautiful floor length dress that had beating all over it. And I bought this really cool 1920s

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Speaker 1: um, silver and fake diamond bracelet that I put a ribbon on and worn as a headpiece and it was like really, really cool, really fun. I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: about that picture of Emily, that's one of my favorite pictures, very long Pearl Strand,

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Speaker 1: totally, totally, I didn't, I didn't bring a long strand of pearls, but

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Speaker 1: um, but it was it was cool. It was really fun. I met some interesting people and one of the people that I met was a woman named Mary Sullivan

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Speaker 1: and she had one of those Emily stories. I know you've heard them too that just make you hug someone and you're just so glad that you're,

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Speaker 1: your family was able to do that. I don't know, it's like because you weren't the person who did it, but you're just so glad to be a part of people that make people's lives better. Like

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Speaker 2: receiving a thank you. It's nice to be able to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that even if you weren't the person that did it yourself, it's like, I'm just so glad this made your life better. But

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Speaker 1: she um mary mary Sullivan's mother passed away when she was very young

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Speaker 1: and when she got married um you know, there it really was less of the kind of anything goes era that we live in now and much more um of there is a way to do this and she said that the Emily Post book is what got her through planning her wedding

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Speaker 1: and she, the last line that she said to me was I didn't have a Mother, I had Emily Post and I just like that hit me to the core and I was just, I was so touched by that and I mean of course she had a mother, you know, and she recognized that too, but the fact that she said, you know, when I was going through this time where I had all these questions and

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Speaker 1: normally there is that maternal figure there for you.

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Speaker 1: I had Emily Post and I didn't, I didn't need anything else. It got me through and that just,

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Speaker 1: it blew me away. And so I wanted to thank mary Sullivan for sharing that story with me and it was just, it was so touching. Especially on a night where kind of I knew nobody. It was nice to have a real moment of connection

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Speaker 2: that is awesome and families do take all kinds of shapes, shapes

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Speaker 1: and forms and sometimes Emily Post becomes your mother. But it was,

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Speaker 1: it was wonderful. But with that we kind of have a big show today

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Speaker 2: do and before we jump to it, we also have a bit of an announcement.

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Speaker 1: We do have an announcement mike. I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm a little slow in an effort

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Speaker 2: to expand the family feel of this podcast, lizzie and I have decided to start a facebook page, just dedicated to awesome etiquette. And

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Speaker 2: um following our discussion last week where we talked some about how we use facebook and we were, we were acknowledging that oftentimes for a business or a show or a public enterprise. It's really nice to have a facebook page that's dedicated to that business or that show. And

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Speaker 2: in this case it's a show. So we're launching a facebook page and we invite you to come take a look at it if you like it. Give us a like and let us know what you think about the show. We're really hoping it can be a center for this community and a place where

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Speaker 2: all of the etiquette family here at awesome etiquette can can interact with us and with each other. So please make it your own home and make it your own

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Speaker 1: just like you share everything on twitter with us because that's where we seem to be most accessible these days.

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Speaker 1: We really want this to be a place where when you are so proud of that dinner table that you just set, share a picture. You know, if you have a thank you note that you received, obviously try to blur out what you need to blur out to make sure you're not exposing your friends or family, but you know, feel free to share a picture, Tell us a story about it.

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Speaker 1: This is a place for you to write, Hashtag etiquette salute.

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Speaker 1: You know, hashtag postscript hashtag awesome etiquette for a question so that we know what part of the show you would like your story or your question to be shared on and we are so excited to be able to have this forum, we're excited to be able to respond to you and talk to you via it.

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Speaker 1: And I just, I really want to thank dan for taking the initiative to actually build the page and make it happen,

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Speaker 1: although we'll open the

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Speaker 2: door and invite everyone in and um, but the page is really for everyone and

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Speaker 1: it is so,

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Speaker 2: so please find us there and

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Speaker 1: let's get to some questions. Let's

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Speaker 2: get to some questions.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you're right, but there's so much to learn how to do, sure there's a lot to learn, but it's worth it. And learning is easy. One way is by watching others

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Speaker 2: on every episode of awesome etiquette, we take your questions on how to behave, let's get started.

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Speaker 1: Our first question is a total classic hat etiquette.

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Speaker 1: The question simply is what is modern day hat etiquette? Should gentlemen take their hat off at a restaurant?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I love to give a simple answer. Yes please.

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Speaker 2: If you don't do it for yourself, if you don't do it for the person you're sitting with, do it for everyone else who's sitting in the restaurant, do it for the ownership who work hard to make that a place that people want to come and eat.

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Speaker 2: Um, it is traditional etiquette, you take your hat off inside, but particularly when you're sitting down for a meal and why

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Speaker 1: do you take your hat off inside, particularly at a meal?

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Speaker 1: It's so that people can actually see your face, it's a sign of welcome and trust and just the same way, I mean it came from way back in the days of nights when they would raise their visors so that you could see who they are. And it's,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those great things that when your kids ask and you know, especially little boys who don't want to take their hats off to you.

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Speaker 1: Um, so it's a great, it's a great reason and a great connection. It's one of those few times where there is a real solid reason behind it. Now, I will fully admit that at the golf club

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Speaker 1: when I come in and I've had my hat on and I know I'm gonna have had

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Speaker 2: and

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Speaker 1: even try to like put my hair back under my hat so that when I take it off, my hair won't be like matted to my head

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Speaker 1: and look terrible. But sometimes I ask the other people that I'm sitting with, do y'all mind if I leave my hat on and because it's a sport type thing they don't mind. But you know, if you ever are in that type of situation where you are that self conscious about it or something, you can always ask the people that you're with, do you mind if I leave this on or Gosh, I feel so, I feel so rude, but I feel like taking it off might be ruder.

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Speaker 2: So I love where we're going with this discussion is implicit is acknowledging that right now this is a gender neutral etiquette. The expectation is the same for women as it is for gentlemen truly and, and particularly I'm not talking the sunday hat, that's part of a hairdo that depend on your head

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Speaker 1: fascinator that doesn't cover your face in any way totally different

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Speaker 2: fascinator pronouncing. So for, for that very traditional hat, traditional settings, uh,

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Speaker 2: it's okay to leave it on. But what you're describing baseball cap, you're talking about a gender neutral attire in a gender neutral situation. The same expectation that I want to see your eyes. I want your head to be clear.

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Speaker 1: And we're sitting there like last night we sat down at a table, the three of us, I play in a women's golf league and

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Speaker 1: well I wouldn't really call it a league because we don't have flights. We don't like play against each other, but

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Speaker 1: golf group and,

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Speaker 1: and one of the ladies had removed your hat, but the other, the other one and I both left ours on and that was, you know, we had deemed it for us. That's okay when I'm sometimes with some of the

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Speaker 1: more senior members of the group. I, you know, I make sure to remember my manners and I just take it off no matter what I say. I know that they're going to appreciate this.

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Speaker 2: I also really like that. You acknowledge the reason many reason People sometimes feel like they wouldn't, or I don't want to know my hair underneath and I'll just tell you what my mother as a girl.

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Speaker 1: That's a big deal. I used to

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Speaker 2: tell me when I was equally, I cared about my hair was growing it out, I was in

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan had really long hair for any of those that want to know, we might throw a picture of it up on the facebook page one day, he's shaking his head, don't you

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Speaker 2: dare. Um

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Speaker 2: and it mortified me to take that baseball cap off and have my hair falling in front of my face. I didn't like it, but that was a rule at grandparents and Cindy sending. My mother was a relatively, a fairly liberal, progressive parent, but that was an absolute rule. That was a must. She cared about seeing your eyes and she heard about your hat being off at the table when you went to visit your grandparents. And

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Speaker 2: it's funny how those rules stick with you because as

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Speaker 1: I've come into

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Speaker 2: adulthood, that's one that that I still notice to this day when someone around me, I take your hat off your hat and and I try not to indulge that little grump, but he comes out

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Speaker 1: so there you have it. We we feel like for the shortest question we've ever got, we gave you a full answer,

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Speaker 2: but um good answer. Take that hat off inside at the

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Speaker 1: table. Always.

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Speaker 2: Our next question has to do with picking up the tab for a grad,

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Speaker 2: it begins, I'm flying into town for my daughter's college graduation. My relatives are planning a graduation luncheon for,

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Speaker 2: I should pick up the tab because she's my daughter, correct. Please answer. I don't want to mess this up. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: I really hope that we're getting you an answer in time. I I did try to get this question in like the same week that it came in, but I think that you should offer since they're hosting

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Speaker 1: um they're usually fitting the bill, so I don't think they're expecting you to do this. Um But you know, it's always nice to offer if you get turned down, just accept that and enjoy the party. Um They might really want to be doing this for your daughter um When you do offer, you may want to offer to contribute rather than to pick up the whole tab because you never know how much they've decided to spend or you might want to say, hey, I'd love to help.

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Speaker 1: This is what I would be able to contribute

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Speaker 1: in terms of an amount um That way you don't wind up all of a sudden just getting a huge, huge bill that you don't know how

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Speaker 2: to

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Speaker 1: exactly.

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Speaker 1: Um but again, if they turn you down, feel feel comfortable with that and just know that, you know, this is one that we've, we've each had relatives

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Speaker 2: throw lots of

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Speaker 1: parties or something for us and our parents weren't the ones footing the bill. Our parents always offered to help, but sometimes they get turned down

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Speaker 2: and keep it in mind maybe offered to throw a party for another lucky grad who's in your neighborhood someday?

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Our next question begins, hi dan and lizzie, I'm helping organize a work event

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Speaker 2: at an optional meal. We want to set the expectation that the organization won't be paying. This is commonly referred to as dutch treat, but I have dutch friends that feel this term is offensive and reinforces the stereotype that the dutch are not generous because we're in new york where many people are of dutch extraction.

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Speaker 2: I'd prefer to use wording that won't inadvertently offend, but it's also unambiguous.

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Speaker 2: Can you help me with something that sounds right, Love the podcast. Thanks.

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Speaker 2: Then

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Speaker 2: there

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Speaker 1: are other dancing world that was great. All right, well, I will let you know um dan that almost every country has its own term for the phrase pay your own way in Egypt, it's called english style in Italy, it's roman style in south America, it's pay american style

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Speaker 1: in the Philippines. They actually have an acronym for it. It's K K B

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Speaker 1: and it's kanya kanya ang bayan, which I hope I pronounced correctly, but it translates to pay for your own self. Um it's just a long way of me telling you that um anyone can be offended and most countries have a way of describing this form of paying too

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Speaker 1: another country. So in America, unfortunately, you know, and maybe not, unfortunately, maybe it's a way that we're recognizing that the dutch have, have got this thing down, but it's, I understand it's not the way that the dutch actually do things just the same way,

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Speaker 1: plenty of americans pay for other americans. We don't always pay for our own way. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I think that, that in terms of being insulted, you don't have to worry about it because everybody's insulted with this one. No, I'm kidding. Um, I think instead, what you just simply say is call it pay your own way. Um,

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Speaker 1: I would, I've also heard it called Pay for your plate. Um, what I would do when I'm inviting people to this event is to call the event a gathering. It's more casual, less likely to make people feel like they were invited to something only to then be told that their host isn't taking care of the bill, which is really awkward when you say, hey, we'd like to invite you to dinner at joe's after work, 5 to 8, bring your spouse's. Oh, no, no, no, the bills on you. That's really awkward. But instead you say, a bunch of us are meeting up after work, um, just to get together for cocktails.

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Speaker 1: Probably going to do just to pay your own plate. Kind of a thing.

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Speaker 1: That's a much more casual, easy understood invitation. So I would handle it that way. Um, rather than trying to make it sound like the corporation is putting on an event that than

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Speaker 1: really everyone is responsible for their own.

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Speaker 2: It's something we we get this question in the social sphere often, and, and to see it coming from a business, I think that pay your own way, really, the question was looking for unambiguous language. I think that's the most unambiguous I can think of,

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Speaker 1: and I really would make sure you call it the gathering, because I think especially because it's coming from a corporation, a lot of the times when,

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Speaker 1: when work is hosting, work is often supposed to be paying the bill at Emily Post, even though we're family business and six out of eight of us are related when it comes to an office luncheon or evening party or something. The company fits the bill. Foots the bill. Excuse me.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to recognize that nine times out of 10, when you're organizing something from the office,

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Speaker 1: the office should be footing the bill

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Speaker 2: that you're working against.

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Speaker 1: It is so you need to call this a gathering. It's, you need to say this is casual, we're just meeting up after work. Anyone from the office can come make it as non, you almost have to make it as non connected to the company as possible, since the company's not footing the bill.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what I like, that intent behind the way, you craft that message,

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Speaker 1: but best of luck dan. And and you know, definitely go for the pay for your plate as opposed to dutch, treat

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Speaker 2: this question. I

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Speaker 1: love

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Speaker 2: because it gets

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Speaker 1: at the heart of awkward. It's, it's the kind of thing you would see in Seinfeld and you know, just all these

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Speaker 2: wonderful

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Speaker 1: curb your enthusiasm, you experience it all the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love this question. This is the long hallway.

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Speaker 2: Hello,

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Speaker 1: Hello, dan. And lizzie. I'm still fairly new to your podcast, but it's been a treat to stumble upon and I thoroughly enjoy listening to it as part of my weekly routine. So glad

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Speaker 2: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: I had a question regarding maintaining eye contact at the office where I work. There is one long hallway that runs through the building and off of which all of the individual cubicles and offices are located. It can take as much as 20-30 seconds to walk down.

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Speaker 1: Now. I just want to say a lot of people listen and they think, oh, 20 to 30 seconds,

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Speaker 1: we cover whole questions in 20 to 30 seconds sometimes. Well, hans is probably gonna laugh at that our producer because we, we wanted having long questions, but

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Speaker 2: 2020

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Speaker 1: to 30 seconds is a long time, a long awkward time. So it takes 20 to 30 seconds to walk down, depending on your pace. I often find myself noticing someone walking towards me from the opposite end and while I want to do the polite thing and greet them or smile because of the extremely long distance, I don't often feel comfortable maintaining that eye contact for the entire time. Normally I will wait until I'm a few paces away to make eye contact and say hello but

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Speaker 1: I feel that this can be awkward if we have already locked eyes several paces earlier.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention there isn't really anywhere else I could pretend to be looking besides down the hall towards my destination. I have even noticed some of my more shy coworkers avoiding eye contact altogether which can make it even more uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for the polite protocol for time to maintain eye contact, particularly with people who are just acquaintances or co workers? Thank you for your time and have a wonderful day.

00:21:07

Speaker 1: Warm regards Brianna

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Speaker 1: or Brianna

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Speaker 2: Brianna. Thank you for your questions

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Speaker 1: such

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Speaker 2: as I was reviewing this one. Um I read it out loud, The puget, she just started cracking. I think everyone has experienced this. We have a long bridge that gets us into our office where we do this every day in the

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Speaker 1: DPR there's a really long hallway just like she's describing that we

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Speaker 2: walked is good etiquette and the, it also um

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Speaker 2: It addresses how acutely aware we are of where each other are looking. We can follow each other's attention with our eyes and it is, it is so important. It is such a part of how we interact socially and I love talking about our business clients and I love this particular question because it gives us a chance to, I think you have to acknowledge when you make eye contact with someone. I think you do it from a distance. This is my best shot. First answer if it doesn't maintain for 20 or 30 seconds, that is fine and good and probably even appropriate because

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Speaker 2: to stare each other down over that whole distance,

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Speaker 1: I'm picturing

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Speaker 2: a joust, I mean you might even start to protect. I mean they could have that feeling. So I think you you

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Speaker 2: you sustain that eye contact as long as it's comfortable and I, and I think that's usually probably not too too long, a couple of seconds. But I think when you get close again, when you actually pass each other you you let it happen again. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I think like when she says she does the thing where she kind of doesn't make the full eye contact until a couple of paces before. I think that's good and if you if you mess that up a little and you, you start like um

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna these aren't actual measurements. We didn't practice this in the hallway. But let's say that five paces before you actually are right next to each other, you make eye contact and then you realize it's gonna be weird

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Speaker 1: if you keep looking, that's when you make the eye contact, you say, hey, how's it going today and then whatever is in your hand or just you know, then move on to what you're looking towards. I think it's okay to do that

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Speaker 1: If you're 10 paces back, maybe you maybe you do kind of wait and avoid that eye contact until you're three or four paces away and that I think is okay. You can look up, you can see the person then, maybe you can look down at what you're holding or just kind of look towards where you're going. I often wind up looking at my feet which winds up looking stupid but

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Speaker 1: you can wait again too

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Speaker 1: re engage at that closer moment and and that's when you can give the second kind of hello of, you know, how's it going today or you know can't wait for that meeting for or something. Well

00:23:28

Speaker 2: and two things that come, you don't need to say hi every time you pass, like you can acknowledge someone with eye contact, a smile and nod.

00:23:35

Speaker 1: You've already seen them throughout the day. You don't have to re say hello, how's it going?

00:23:39

Speaker 2: And just the fact that you're in proximity doesn't mean you have to re engage in that way. In fact, I think

00:23:44

Speaker 2: a good productive day at the office part of his being able to make eye contact, acknowledge someone without necessarily doing deep dive interaction. The other thing that I'm wondering about too is you talked about like, like I end up looking at my feet, there are a couple of things that you can do with your gaze with your focus and one is without changing where your eyes are pointed, you can

00:24:07

Speaker 2: remove the concentration of the focus so you can get

00:24:12

Speaker 1: out of it without using

00:24:14

Speaker 2: your eyes like my cousin is doing at me

00:24:17

Speaker 1: is that when you get that like vacant stare, like zombie, like

00:24:21

Speaker 2: Yes, but maybe, but don't want zombie out, but I do think there's a place for being able to control the intensity of your gaze.

00:24:27

Speaker 2: I mean this is a subtle, this is subtle territory. I acknowledge you

00:24:30

Speaker 1: should like lock in on the person and then even as they're walking by, you're starting to turn your head. Yeah, I agree with you there.

00:24:36

Speaker 2: And then another one is that the actual folks, like not not the the quality of the focus but where your attention is and you just like I feel awkward looking at my feet all the time. A piece of advice I sometimes give people is is practice allowing yourself to recover your gaze in different ways. So it's not always an unconscious action. A lot of times, it's habitual what we do with our eyes to recover ourselves and for a lot of people, it's down in a way

00:25:00

Speaker 2: um sort of feels like you're returning into yourself and it's a it's a way to to gather yourself. Um I like to advise people to sometimes like you let your gaze recover up, let your gaze recover just over someone's head. Um or just above them. So it's not like you're always looking down in a way, but you can you can recover yourself, you can let your eyes rest, you can break that the intensity of just staring into the abyss.

00:25:23

Speaker 2: Another trick we teach little kids you can look at the bridge of someone's nose and it's a way that's a way to sort of take the intensity out of that, that focus and that moment without breaking the

00:25:33

Speaker 2: the direction of the gaze

00:25:34

Speaker 1: Brianna. We hope that that helps in that these long hallway walks get a little less uncomfortable.

00:25:40

Speaker 2: Our next question is a bit of an you. It begins hi lizzie and daniel.

00:25:45

Speaker 2: What is the most sensitive polite way to tell an acquaintance that his body odor is an issue

00:25:51

Speaker 2: context. Every year, friends host a large multi day gathering at their home. Most guests sleep over three or four nights and we all socialize and play board and card games from dawn to dusk,

00:26:01

Speaker 2: it is fairly close quarters and having to avoid him or vacated room he enters has been a problem the past two years. I realized there is a possibility he has no control over it, but this is really having an impact on the gathering and I want to address it somehow.

00:26:15

Speaker 2: Thanks for your thoughts.

00:26:17

Speaker 1: Ouch man.

00:26:18

Speaker 2: It is

00:26:19

Speaker 1: well and it's really hard when it's the when it gets to the point where people vacate the room to avoid him. That's simple.

00:26:27

Speaker 1: That's some pretty smelly B. O. Going on. It's like one thing when you're in close proximity and you hug someone and you can smell it, but when you stand next to them you don't, you know what I

00:26:35

Speaker 2: mean? But

00:26:37

Speaker 1: if it's that strong,

00:26:39

Speaker 1: wow. Um So I think 22 things to consider one is first consider yourself. Are you super hyper sensitive to smells right now? That happens. My mother can smell cigar smoke that has never ever been

00:26:52

Speaker 2: smoked smoked.

00:26:54

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like unbelievable. I was

00:26:56

Speaker 2: not the

00:26:57

Speaker 1: kid who could get away with smoking cigarettes or trying to or something like that and that didn't happen.

00:27:02

Speaker 1: My mom can smell it even if it hasn't been around. So just consider first, are you someone who is very sensitive to smell? Um It sounds to me like other people have noticed this is a difficult problem with this person that this might be kind of something that's been talked about amongst your friends, that sort of thing.

00:27:21

Speaker 1: I think that you deal with this the way you would want someone to deal with it with you. So think about how you would want someone to approach you if you were the smelly person.

00:27:30

Speaker 1: Um do you know about it. Do you not know about it? You have to find out. So you say, hey chris. I um I was hoping that I could talk to you about something for a second

00:27:40

Speaker 1: and oh I'm sorry I used the name chris as our example in our sound engineers chris and he is like cringing in the corner chris, I need to talk to you sniffing sound, sorry, that sounds gross but it's pretty funny.

00:27:54

Speaker 1: Okay so um we will say keith alright. Does that make you feel better

00:27:58

Speaker 1: keith? You know I was hoping that I could talk to you about something for a minute. I know I'd want someone to talk to me if the situation were reversed. I know I'd want someone to ask me.

00:28:08

Speaker 1: I just wanted to know if um if you were aware that body odor has become strong

00:28:15

Speaker 1: and that's one way to get him. He might say, you know I'm on a medication and that's a side effect. I can't do anything about it unfortunately. Or gosh it's so embarrassing, I'm aware of it. Something has changed you know in my body and it's it's really become a problem. Or you might say I had no idea. Is this why people aren't hugging me?

00:28:35

Speaker 1: No. Um Or they might be offended and they might say, you know that's really none of your business. And you could get any of these reactions but this is the best way to approach this by saying I would want someone to tell me or to talk to me about it if the situation was reversed. Um

00:28:53

Speaker 1: It's not your job to come to this conversation with um body spray and deodorant in hand, you know this person is an adult, they know how to fix this. Um but it might be something this just might get the conversation going or at least bring it to a level of awareness so that he knows that this is kind of affecting other people.

00:29:13

Speaker 1: I wouldn't go so far as to say well

00:29:16

Speaker 1: people are leaving the room when you enter. I think those are the kinds

00:29:19

Speaker 2: of things that

00:29:20

Speaker 1: it starts to get hurtful. Do you what do you what do you, because we talk about this in our business etiquette seminars. This is actually one of the scenario

00:29:27

Speaker 2: I really like hearing you give the answer because I'm hearing you go through in your script. A lot of things that I would advise the priming the asking permission, the thinking about them the

00:29:35

Speaker 2: and and and as usual I really like your language. I like the way it sounds

00:29:38

Speaker 1: really because this is one that no matter what, I think it's just hard because

00:29:42

Speaker 2: it's a hard conversation,

00:29:42

Speaker 1: it never comes across well. It's always, I feel like

00:29:46

Speaker 1: it actually, you know what it happens in sex in the city at one point. So Samantha in like season one winds up telling a guy who has really bad breath and he says oh it's the chinese herbs and she says honey ditch the herbs, you're gonna live a long life alone and she has such a spunky way of talking about it. So

00:30:02

Speaker 1: use your personality I think. But be very aware of the person

00:30:07

Speaker 1: you're talking to.

00:30:08

Speaker 2: The other thing in terms of that awareness, I really like that you've got these three possible responses that you're aware you might get and and sort of having a little bit of a preparation for this person might be really offended. Like that's that's a really that's a real possibility. They might say I had no idea and asked for suggestions.

00:30:24

Speaker 2: So maybe have a couple ideas in mind things that you could offer, maybe it's a different shower routine, maybe it is.

00:30:29

Speaker 2: I

00:30:30

Speaker 1: feel like they're going to know those or if they think if they ask for, what do you think I could do because I've tried a different shower, I've tried shower three times a day or I do this or I do that and that's when I say you got to talk to your doctor about it because if it is something

00:30:46

Speaker 1: different that your body's started doing

00:30:48

Speaker 2: and that's the whole, I have no idea, thank you for telling me. The other possibility is I I have no I had no idea what I'm going to get on that and that was me. Someone had this discussion with me at one point and it was after I just I started dancing more, spending more time in a studio before I went to work and someone handled this very very well and had this discussion with me I think about it to this day,

00:31:09

Speaker 1: you're so good about that kind of stuff though, like you are so good about taking personal quote unquote criticism and I just wonder how this happens when it's someone who isn't

00:31:20

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, if that person is really offended, I think you have to be prepared to back away and I really, I wanted to talk to you about it, I really thought that you should know, I'm sorry and I apologize for offending you, I was gonna

00:31:31

Speaker 1: say you know yeah that I would say something like keith, I'm so sorry, I really didn't mean to put you in an awkward situation. I sincerely my intention was to help and

00:31:41

Speaker 1: clearly I didn't and I apologize for that and then just walk away and let it be.

00:31:47

Speaker 2: It's a tough one, but it's a great one and not uncommon. So take heart, you're not the only person who had to face this on either side of this question. Do you hear that? She says you're not as rude as you used to be.

00:32:06

Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone for sending in your questions and remember we love updates if we answered your question on the show or if you have a comment about one of our questions, feel free to send it in.

00:32:22

Speaker 1: You can also submit your question to awesome etiquette Emily post dot com or send it in via our new facebook page or our twitter accounts. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette. So we know you want it on the show.

00:32:43

Speaker 1: Each

00:32:45

Speaker 2: week we like to end our show on a positive note with an etiquette salute.

00:32:49

Speaker 2: Today's salute begins. Hello, I'd like to give an etiquette salute to the nursing staff in the maternity ward at saddleback hospital in Orange county California.

00:32:58

Speaker 2: I gave birth to my first child there in november. Congratulations. I had planned to deliver in a birthing center, but during labor it became necessary for me to transfer to the hospital. I was so upset and nervous but the nurses put me at ease as soon as I was admitted they were warm, friendly and respectful of my wishes Throughout the two day stay,

00:33:18

Speaker 2: I felt completely confident in their care

00:33:20

Speaker 2: from my little girl and me. One thing in particular really wowed my husband and me though,

00:33:25

Speaker 2: within a couple of days of returning home, we received a card with handwritten notes of well wishes from each of the nurses who had cared for us knowing how very busy they are. We felt the gesture was so sweet and thoughtful that further cemented our feelings that should we be blessed with more Children will definitely return to saddleback. Thanks Wendy.

00:33:45

Speaker 1: That is so nice.

00:33:47

Speaker 2: That's really nice to hear. Thank you for sharing. That's like

00:33:49

Speaker 1: just a really sweet salute.

00:33:51

Speaker 2: But

00:33:52

Speaker 1: you know Wendy's salute is actually the last of the salutes that we have and we need more salutes. So please tell us all of the wonderful people and experiences that you're encountering out there because we definitely want to hear from you and we love salutes that come from our listeners. So send us your salute for sure. Too awesome etiquette at the Emily Post

00:34:13

Speaker 2: dot com.

00:34:13

Speaker 2: Well now wasn't that better? Look at the effect of a little politeness.

00:34:20

Speaker 2: That's our show for today as always, thank you for listening and spending some of your day with us. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week

00:34:27

Speaker 1: and don't forget there's no show without you. So send us your questions, your etiquette salutes and your suggestions to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com

00:34:36

Speaker 2: if you like what you hear, don't be shy, tweet it facebook post it and of course you can subscribe on itunes and leave us a review

00:34:43

Speaker 1: on facebook where the Emily Post Institute on twitter. I'm at lizzie a post. That's lizzie with an E

00:34:50

Speaker 2: and I'm at daniel underscore post

00:34:52

Speaker 1: or you can visit us at Emily Post dot com. Our

00:34:56

Speaker 2: theme music was composed and performed by bob Wagner

00:34:59

Speaker 1: and our show is produced and edited by the wonderful hans butto.

00:35:13

Speaker 1: I'll do something

00:35:15

Speaker 1: and she