Episode 372 - Ghosting Season

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social. Could you see that's old fashioned,

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Speaker 1: Watch how busy post and then post act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome

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Speaker 2: etiquette where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty

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Speaker 1: on today's, shall we take your questions on how to be a great gift giver, How to raise polite Children, whether or not ghosting or a direct approach is better

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Speaker 1: and how to intercept food other adults are giving to your kids

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Speaker 2: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about whether or not to order from a restaurant where you have a weekly club meeting

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Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on getting ready to invite guests for the holidays. All

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Speaker 2: that's coming up,

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute.

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Speaker 2: I'm lizzie Post

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Speaker 1: and I'm dan post Senate. We're back in the natural order of things. We are,

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Speaker 2: took us a minute to get here today, but we are on mike, we are happy to be recording our podcast. I just have had a grin on my face since sunday. We're recording this

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Speaker 2: um much ahead of time. So audience, I apologize but we're going to talk about the football game. I just got to go to

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Speaker 1: where they do tell lizzie posed. The

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Speaker 2: saints beat the patriots in Gillette.

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Speaker 2: This happened on uh september 26th and I got to go down to the game. You guys heard me getting excited about it. I

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Speaker 2: put on as much ST stuff as I could possibly have. I had a flirt early on my cheek, I had my hat, I had my Reggie Bush jersey, which by the way, I really need in New Jersey and I had who dat written on my arms, which is our cheer. And so that was fun. Whenever we, whenever we scored, my arms went up and I had big old who dads

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Speaker 2: facing

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Speaker 1: facing, there was

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Speaker 2: plenty of that, there was plenty of that in that particular game. And the thing I really want to talk about because it's, it's not the bragging rights of the fact that we won in Gillette against the patriots.

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Speaker 2: Had it been against tom brady, I think it would have been even more

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Speaker 1: impressive. Might have felt it might have felt a

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Speaker 2: little more fun. But what I will say is that my, my best friend is from New Orleans, she's an Icu nurse down there and I texted her that I was at the game and she texted me that she's at work in her gear, Saints gear, that is and she said

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Speaker 2: good luck, the like New England fans are brutal. And I was like prepared for this. You know, I was prepared for being, you know, front row in a patriot section wearing all my Saints gear

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Speaker 2: and I gotta say new England fans were so polite, they were so nice. They gave me just the right amount of razzing, which was very little and they did all the things they needed to do right. They tried to be as loud as they could when my team was on offense, they tried all the things,

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Speaker 2: but nobody kind of gave credit or was mean in any kind of way, they really weren't even picking that much when my team would score or something. They would look at me and say like, good job, good job. And I made sure to clap and stand whenever the patriots had something good going on.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it was all incredibly polite, but the thing that I really took notice of

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Speaker 2: was that as we walked out of the stadium and Saints fans are who datin each other like along the way talking about where we're from and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So many patriots fans said congratulations Goodwin, Congratulations Goodwin on the way out. And they were just so genuinely polite about it.

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Speaker 2: My response was, it was really kind of you guys to let us win on your home turf feels really great, really

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Speaker 1: appreciate the hospitality. You know, like,

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Speaker 2: and it was just like they're complimenting a team that just beat them on their home turf. It's like, you know, you gotta be polite right back.

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Speaker 2: But I was, I was genuinely thrilled at just how kind all the fans were to us. Saints fans as we walked out of that stadium. So a big, big etiquette, awesome etiquette salute

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Speaker 2: to all of the patriots fans who were at the game. Uh, you really made us feel welcome and really appreciated your good sportsmanship

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Speaker 1: lizzie post. I'm going to be a bad sport. I'm sitting here kind of glowing just like taking credit for almost as if the fan base is a child of mine or a family that I'm a part of somehow

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Speaker 2: so proud.

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Speaker 1: I've been to that stadium so many times and always on the,

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Speaker 1: the other side, always cheering for the home team. And I've been nice to fans visiting, particularly from Miami. I've been at a couple of Miami games have been nice to some Miami folks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just delighted that that was your experience. That's what I would hope that you would encounter there. I have had so much fun and it's nice to hear that you did also. I knew that you were planning to gear up for the game

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Speaker 2: and

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking to myself, you're so much braver than I am. I love that you took a chance and went for it and warrior colors and, and that not just worked out, but that it was a really good experience. I

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Speaker 2: love it. I love it. It gets me into it. You know, it makes yelling and calling things out and everything so much more fun when you're just like totally decked out in your team scare

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Speaker 1: well and easy to be a gracious winner.

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Speaker 2: Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, but no, it was, it was a really awesome experience. So a big thank you to all the patriots fans out there who made it such even on the way out.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing it. I hope we get to go together someday and it'll be a while before the Saints come back. So maybe we'll even be rooting for the same team.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe maybe or you and I could once it's safe. Hop a flight to new Orleans if they ever played.

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Speaker 1: I

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Speaker 2: had more fun

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Speaker 1: watching super Bowl in new Orleans than any other city and I haven't even been into the stadium yet. It's

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Speaker 2: incredible. All right, well our football plans for the future aside, do you think we should get to some questions today? We actually have a lot of short questions. I feel like this is going to be a boom, boom, boom kind of

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Speaker 1: show. Let's do

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Speaker 2: it,

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 or you can reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook or awesome etiquette

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Speaker 2: just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 1: Our first question this week is about better gifting

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Speaker 1: hello, awesome etiquette team. I've been pondering how to become a better gift giver. While I consider myself a thoughtful person, I struggle to come up with gift ideas for my friends and family,

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Speaker 1: how do you learn to choose thoughtful and meaningful gifts for those around you with much respect Natalie she her hers,

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Speaker 2: Natalie thanks so much for asking. It's a it's a great question, how do you? It almost seems like a very, very mysterious one

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Speaker 2: because I think I've got to really simple answers for this and I'm curious to hear what you have to say, but my thought is that you can do two things asking is a great way to go asking people what they would like actively talking to them about their interests

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Speaker 2: about gifts that they've loved in the past. Things like it doesn't just have to be, what do you want for your birthday? It can be like,

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Speaker 2: what are some things you've loved getting over the years? Like, you know, I'm trying to become a better gift giver and I think that those are things that can definitely be inspiration, but I also think noticing is like the second best way to go when you know you're all at that family birthday party or the family holiday where gifts might be a part of the exchange

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Speaker 2: and you notice the things that people get really excited about. It's good to pay attention to, that sort of thing. I know my mother loves getting stuff for the kitchen, whether it's a book, whether it's spices or a special ingredient,

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Speaker 2: maybe even a really decadent ingredient.

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Speaker 2: I've seen her use them over the years, I've seen her engage with that kind of stuff. My father, my father is like would spend 24 hours a day on a golf course if he could anything golf related for him, Probably not silly stuff because he doesn't, he doesn't love jokey things so much, but he loves stuff that he will use. So

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Speaker 2: golf balls, gloves, personalized tees or something like that. I feel like there's so many different things that could be easy gifts for him. So by just noticing and paying attention what people get excited about, what they talk about a lot in their life, what they've said was a great gift in the past. You can really pick up a lot

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Speaker 1: lizzie post. This is such a short question and I have such a long answer,

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Speaker 2: please please. I love hearing you talk,

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Speaker 1: you were saying, well, you know, I'm going to say a few of these things and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking to myself, oh, I've got this long list of things that I said to myself, oh a list. That's a great way to give better

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Speaker 2: kids start keeping

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Speaker 1: the list,

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Speaker 1: But your idea of just asking someone and noticing and really paying attention, listening and observing. Those were two things that were not on my list. And I'm so glad you lead with them because I think that's really almost the best possible advice that we could give me a few

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Speaker 2: more things that I

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Speaker 1: think of these as like those less used tools in the toolbox, but they're all there when you when you need them for that special job.

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Speaker 2: So it's not your hammer, your screwdriver, but it's some of the others that we use regularly

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Speaker 1: and we'll call this your design plans and it will shift from project to project. But I can't answer a question about gifting without returning to the oldest cliche and just saying it really is the thought that counts true. Go back to thinking about the person thinking about just who they are, but why they matter to you what it is about them and their relationship with you, that

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Speaker 1: that makes them someone you want to give a gift to

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Speaker 1: and that's gonna bring you to that place of generosity. That spirit of caring and connection that's going to give the gift its real significance. And it's also going to put you in the right frame of mind for thinking about someone and

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Speaker 1: and trying to pick something for them that they're going to like and that you're going to like giving them. I really think that that intention setting is such an important part of gift giving because it carries through the whole process. I love your idea of listening and noticing because it plays into the

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Speaker 1: more general, not a specific advice that I love suggesting to get something that someone's going to like really think about them and what they enjoy, what their interests are, what their passions are, what delights them and try to think of something that that supports that.

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Speaker 1: Another route that you can go is think about the relationship and specifically what connects you. Is there some shared interest or is it that you connect over something and a gift that really honors the relationship that you share with someone is another way to go. It might not be the thing that they like the most, but it's supportive of

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Speaker 1: of your relationship and how you connect.

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Speaker 2: I like that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah,

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Speaker 1: another thought and this is risky because I know lizzie Post has mixed feelings about it, but I'm going to take that risk because I got a really nice phone call from my brother about a week ago

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Speaker 1: and my brother is the classic taciturn Vermont or he does not speak much and when he does speak, it's usually about

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Speaker 1: who what, where, when

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Speaker 1: type of information exchange, we don't talk a lot about our feelings and things like that. He called to tell me that he was really appreciating me and thinking about what a good gift giver I was because he was so enjoying the gifts that I had given him the last two christmases and

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Speaker 1: there were things that he used every day and the advice that I would pass on that he was telling me he really appreciated was the risk that I sometimes take of getting somebody something that I really like myself and it's something that I would want to share with them and that's not something that I would be on their list or something they'd even be thinking of. It's a,

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Speaker 1: a chance gift, a left field gift. And when they strike they can be really awesome. So if there is a particular thing that you've discovered that you just love that you want to share with someone

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Speaker 1: and you think that they might actually like that exploration.

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Speaker 1: It's another way to go. If you think about the things that,

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Speaker 1: that have really surprised and delighted you or that you get a lot of satisfaction from and you can share them and it's a spirit of sharing, not a spirit of giving somebody something they're never going to use that doesn't fit them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so let me, let me clarify a little bit for her audience.

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Speaker 2: I actually, I think for all the reasons you just listed that getting something that you like, while it can be risky, can be a really great way to share and to be showing consideration

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Speaker 2: with a gift. There's definitely when it's in that zone and I think you hit the key element of. It's something that you like that you think they might really like or appreciate too. I think that's the that's that key element there. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: And and that makes all the difference in the world. It's also a really great fall back

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Speaker 2: when you're really uncertain about what you'd like to give to somebody and you don't have the opportunity to either notice or you don't have the opportunity to ask.

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Speaker 1: And so I think really tracked down and source something that might be hard to find.

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Speaker 2: Exactly because Exactly! And it does have that wonderful spirit with it of sharing that that I think comes across so well. I really love and value this thing or appreciate it or have been excited about it and I wanted to extend that possibility to you.

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Speaker 2: And that's again the thought that you're coming right back to that first point of the thought that counts. So just to clarify my stance, it is definitely a worthwhile gifting avenue to pursue.

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Speaker 1: I acknowledge your caution with that advice because I am also the person who discovered yoga in my twenty's and spent five years giving everyone yoga props and accessories because I just loved it so much and I wanted to expose everyone that I loved to it and wish

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Speaker 2: I had been on your gift list during those years.

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Speaker 1: I spent so many years finding those yoga blocks and props gathering dust in the backs of closets. I finally learned the lesson.

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Speaker 1: I want to connect the advice about getting something that you really like to the idea of listing because it can be really helpful over the course of a year when you have these little moments where you're using that thing in the garage that makes your life so much easier if you can connect that moment to uh my father likes to this kind of thing. My brother likes to do this kind of thing. My brother in law likes to do this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden you've got a potential

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Speaker 1: three people, three items and it doesn't take too many of those inspirations before you start to have some really good

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Speaker 1: options on a list for multiple people. Oftentimes multiple options.

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Speaker 2: Do you mean like one gift that suits all of those people or do you mean like, like you're paying attention and you start to kind of know the good gifting zones for each of these

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Speaker 1: people. Both quite specifically.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm loving having this high frequency radio that lets me pick up the sports channel that broadcasts from the other side of the mountain.

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Speaker 2: It was a really good gift.

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Speaker 1: That radio went on the list next to like six people. You know, and I think maybe three of them ended up getting a version of that radio. So it's not that everybody gets everything on their list, but when it comes time for that holiday shopping or I'm at the radio store or whatever it is, I know that

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Speaker 1: I can either grab three of them or four of them or I could check a couple people off the list or I could say, oh I'm not going to get to the

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Speaker 1: second or third thing on that list, I'm going to grab this one.

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Speaker 1: It starts to be that

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Speaker 1: that grid of options that I think

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Speaker 1: gets me called back a year and a half later. I have a final, final, final thought for building gift lists. Which is another place I sometimes go as I think to myself, high quality,

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: And I think about something that somebody uses all the time or a type of thing that they use all the time

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Speaker 1: and high quality doesn't necessarily mean expensive.

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Speaker 1: But if you get somebody something that's really well made that's going to last a long time that

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Speaker 1: serves a role or function in their life,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's something that replaces something that they

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Speaker 1: use but is something that wears out periodically or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Choosing a really high quality item, it doesn't need to be expensive is a way to give a gift that

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Speaker 1: I think has lasting impact and oftentimes the moment of opening it is oh this is great.

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Speaker 1: It does the thing that I've already got something that does it. But six months later, when that other thing is gone and this is still there,

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Speaker 1: that gift has a real lasting quality and then a year and a half later, five years later when it's still there it's still that gift from you that's carrying hopefully that good intention you said at the start of the process.

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Speaker 2: So one of my favorite high quality zones is in the simple, just what you said the simple everyday stuff that you can get kind of

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Speaker 2: the higher quality version of And for me that often comes in the form of gourmet foods or specialty foods. You know when I think about getting my mom a selection of spices,

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Speaker 2: I go for the organic ones or the ones that come in that I can I can scoop out from bulk and put in a really beautiful you know like little jar for her or

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Speaker 2: as you were just thinking I could do a mix of things so I could I could make some different sets of things together but choosing that higher quality version of the item does make it a little more special you know than than sort of everyday my every day one

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Speaker 2: and sometimes even the presentation can make a difference there like I said with those spices sometimes I'll make a mix of them

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Speaker 2: that go really well together and put them in a really beautiful jar for her. And I noticed that those things stick around that those things are seen in in that kitchen spice cabinet or you know and it makes me feel good like oh cool, this is a really basic thing, but my mom really appreciated it.

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Speaker 1: I love that idea of presentation being important. That's another way you can invest in that gift

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Speaker 1: lizzie post. I could keep going. I know that I think we're probably going to have opportunities to talk about gift giving again. So now Natalie thank you so much for this question. We really appreciate the opportunity to talk about gift giving early in the holiday season. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Our next question is titled raising polite kids.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I just saw your post on instagram. I have two daughters ages 12 and 14. I have tried to instill manners and etiquette with them in how they behave and eat, but it's almost like they intentionally choose the opposite.

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Speaker 2: How do I successfully explain to them the importance of manners and etiquette and get them to exhibit those behaviors anonymous,

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Speaker 1: anonymous. Thank you so much for the question. I think that if I had the,

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Speaker 1: the really good answer to this question, I would be an expert who would be in demand

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Speaker 1: far, far beyond the etiquette field. Yes. The idea that adolescents and those entering their teen years don't listen, don't want to listen and in fact are even doing their jobs, their developmental jobs by testing and challenging the people that are responsible for them and who are responsible for teaching them

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Speaker 1: how to join the adult community

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Speaker 1: is a reality that parents and those who are responsible for kids and young adults have to deal with. And it is not easy

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Speaker 1: having said all that we do have some answers in the etiquette world that I think can be really helpful and I would be completely remiss if I didn't start an answer to a question like this by mentioning the guide to good manners for kids and table manners for kids. Excellent, excellent. Books to, books written by my mother that are designed for Children at this developmental stage and I call them are puberty books because they serve the role that those books

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Speaker 1: about puberty that a lot of parents buy for kids serve for provides but for manners and it provides a resource that they can turn to if they don't want to ask the question to you directly, if they're curious about something, if there's something that they're interested in, but they don't want to go ask mom about it because the last thing they want to do is ask mom about anything at that stage,

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Speaker 1: it's there for them and it's available. And it sounds kind of funny that manners would be a topic that might be like that for kids or social expectations in general, not just table manners,

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Speaker 1: but it really is, it's those are the questions that are really relevant and mattering to kids at that age, they're working very hard to start making their own choices and to make them well and their reckoning with all of the social consequences that stem from the decisions that they make and the chances they take.

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Speaker 1: I think those books are a good place to start. I have to mention them. But that thought transitions me to the advice that I would really want to give, which is keep talking to them, keep talking to them not just about the expectation, but about the reasons for those expectations. Talk to them about why it's important to treat people well, why it's important to

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Speaker 1: honor and respect people by observing social expectations in certain spaces like restaurants or even just at the dinner table. Talk about how those manners have functioned as part of social cohesion and group formation.

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Speaker 1: And

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Speaker 1: if that's

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Speaker 1: too much, just talk about how much more pleasant it is to spend time with people who pay attention to those things and ask them to notice their friends, what they see people doing, not doing and what they like and don't like to interact with

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Speaker 1: and to start making

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Speaker 1: some choices for themselves based on how they're seeing those things working, that's

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Speaker 1: ultimately the place that you want to get them to. So you just start working that process lizzie post. I could keep going and going, but I

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Speaker 1: I want to let you get your voice in here as well. I know there's some things that you want to say about this too.

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Speaker 2: Oh thanks, because this question so reminded me of my own experience

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Speaker 2: growing up, I I was a wild child, I believe fresh was the word that often got used to describe now. Um but one of the things that I think really grounded me

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Speaker 2: was that my mother and and and I know it seems so classic, but my mother had excellent manners. She answered the phone with a pleasant tone in her voice and she always used the magic words and she is so that voice in my head that I hear

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Speaker 2: telling me how to do the right thing and I don't mean to put the fork on the left, but to hold my temper when someone in customer service is being frustrating or even rude to me,

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Speaker 2: she's that voice that always ends something with a thank you or or and I'm sorry if we have to agree to disagree

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Speaker 2: or something like that. It's unbelievable how much

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Speaker 2: my mother was such a good example that like I feel it guiding me all the time and I was you know, rambunctious and not wanting to deal with things. And I thought, you know, slurping your spaghetti was funny when I was 10 or 12 and all of that and she just kept showing me the good example, even when her patience was running out and my mother wasn't a saint, she had moments too, but for the most part she always put this, I won't say best foot, but this great foot forward

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Speaker 2: in her interactions with everyone around her,

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Speaker 2: Whether that's um at least the ones that I would see in front of her Children, she was, you know, I mean and and parents are, are real people too. They get angry, they get embarrassed. They have frustrating moments, they have moments where they let loose and, and all that is true in my family as well. But

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Speaker 2: the majority of the time I was watching my mother behave well and it just paved such a way through my teens when I was trying to be rebellious when I was trying to push boundaries which teens are supposed to do and it sounds like your girls are right at that age 12 and 14

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Speaker 2: where this is going to really start to come out and challenge and exhaust

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Speaker 2: you as you're trying to deal with it, but trust that as they grow up as they have more interactions outside their life, they are going to be thinking back to their parents and how their parents handle their friends, how their parents handle their siblings and, and parents on the, you know, the grandparents, as long as you provide that great example,

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Speaker 2: you're giving them something to lean back on something to, to watch and understand. And even if they're not using it in the moment, I guarantee you

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Speaker 2: that when they're not around you, they are thinking how would mom handle this and like you said dan, you know, I could go on and on and on about how strongly I feel this, how much I lean into it ever since I left home at 18, you know, and it was just my mom

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Speaker 2: is my grounding example of what I should do. I'm very fortunate and grateful that I had a mom to follow like that. But the more you can be that I think the better chance your girls have, especially when they're on their own operating in the world

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Speaker 1: Lizzy. I remember when we used to say that it was important for parents to model the behavior that they wanted to see in their kids and we stop

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Speaker 1: using that language on purpose because

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Speaker 1: ultimately it wasn't just about picking your moments and modeling good behavior was about being the kind of parent you wanted your kids ultimately to be. And that's the kind of standard I hear you talking about here, that

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Speaker 1: it's important what you say, where I started this question, but

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Speaker 1: ultimately, in the long term, what matters most is what you do and holding yourself really accountable and remembering that you are the standard you are going to be the measuring stick that these Children or these people use for the rest of their life. And this is your chance. This is your opportunity

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Speaker 1: is I think probably the best possible advice, well done lizzie post

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Speaker 2: because you just you use that beautiful word that we love so much as inspiration around here, it's your opportunity as opposed to your obligation. So when when you're feeling like they're really trying your patience,

00:27:50

Speaker 2: remember that this is one more opportunity for you to show them how to do it right or to even talk with them about how it's hard sometimes to do it right. But that it's still worth making that effort anonymous. We truly could talk about this topic all day long. Mostly what we hope is that our answer inspires you to keep up the good work, keep going after it, keep

00:28:15

Speaker 2: manners and civility present in your everyday

00:28:18

Speaker 2: and that truly will shine through to your

00:28:20

Speaker 1: Children. You mean that's all there is to take manners. Just what we talked about. Oh no, but you already know a great deal

00:28:28

Speaker 1: and you can learn still more by watching mother and dad and other people who have good manners. The main thing is is to practice at home. So that table manners will come

00:28:37

Speaker 2: naturally and

00:28:38

Speaker 1: it won't have to think about them when I'm out. You can't miss

00:28:43

Speaker 1: our next question continues with a theme about ghosting that we've been considering on this show for a few episodes now. This question is titled is ghosting really necessary. Hello. I read something recently on social media, talking about an alternative to ghosting. It gave the advice that it would be kind to tell someone that they just don't fit in your life anymore

00:29:04

Speaker 1: or something to that effect. Instead of ghosting,

00:29:07

Speaker 1: I've been thinking how would I handle it if someone told me that

00:29:11

Speaker 1: don't handle ghosting very well, but I'm on the fence about a direct approach. What do you think wondering in Vermont

00:29:18

Speaker 2: wondering in Vermont, I feel like I am right standing next to you in this one, I probably don't love ghosting very much as you're kind of like what happened, Why

00:29:30

Speaker 2: why won't this person respond to me anymore? Have I overdone it in reaching out or is it especially right now during these kind of strange pandemic times, just like this pandemic social burnout that has been happening

00:29:44

Speaker 2: and at the same time I'm not certain that a direct approach is a good one either, I think dan that as I've been mulling over this question in my head,

00:29:56

Speaker 2: I don't mind the direct approach when it comes to dating because I think it's important to be clear with someone that you don't want to see them anymore and I think we're relatively familiar with that, whether it's a, you know, this was really nice, but I don't think it's a fit for me, thanks so much for going out with me and getting to know me a little bit

00:30:16

Speaker 2: or if it's I have to end a relationship, you know, I really think this isn't working anymore and that we should go our separate ways, I think those are really fine, they're fine, fine ways to address an ending,

00:30:31

Speaker 2: but I have a much harder time signing off from an etiquette perspective or an Emily post etiquette perspective on the idea that when you no longer want to be friends with someone, you should tell them that. And

00:30:44

Speaker 2: I I think about friendships that have kind of disappeared over time, that either I miss or I'm like, oh jeez, come on, you could have just told me if you don't want to hang out anymore, I'm like,

00:30:53

Speaker 2: but really, really would you have wanted that conversation lizzie?

00:30:58

Speaker 2: I also think by not

00:31:01

Speaker 2: sort of directly ending things with friends that you leave the door open for change in the future. I've had people in my life who have been grateful that we didn't have some kind of friendship breakup talk

00:31:14

Speaker 2: because 345 years down the line, we reconnect and they're in a different place, I'm in a different place and and there's space for our friendship again. So I don't know,

00:31:24

Speaker 2: maybe maybe we can also touch on business relationships or something, but I feel like dating Yes, friendships. No,

00:31:32

Speaker 1: I found myself doing a very similar thing when I thought about this question, I was saying to myself, well, try to think back to a time when there wasn't the complication of is this happening on social media, is this happening via text via dating app? How did this happen between

00:31:50

Speaker 1: real people interacting in the real world and

00:31:54

Speaker 1: it's not uncommon as you point out for you to have a friend that you hang out with for a period of time around a time in your life or an interest that you have, or maybe it's seasonal. I certainly have my fantasy football friends and

00:32:11

Speaker 1: you know, dance friends. So I don't see so much when we're not dancing during a pandemic, there's there's a certain ebb and flow

00:32:18

Speaker 1: then, as you point out

00:32:20

Speaker 1: there don't

00:32:21

Speaker 1: need to be big dramatic transition moments that don't allow for that to continue in a natural way. I did find myself thinking like you that in a romantic relationship, I think your cost benefit analysis changes a little bit. The

00:32:36

Speaker 1: the cost of being clear and explicit about a conclusion or an ending,

00:32:43

Speaker 1: I think also brings with it some rewards in terms of what it opens up in terms of possibility, what it brings for people in terms of clarity about where the relationship is or isn't going.

00:32:53

Speaker 1: So that cost benefit analysis changes and and and the social expectations change when there's something potentially romantic about that relationship. So, I was doing

00:33:03

Speaker 1: right off the bat exactly what you did as I was thinking about

00:33:07

Speaker 1: relationships just happening in person as a way to imagine how I would handle that in all of the text spaces where I think the term ghosting is so often applied these days and where a lot of people's current curiosity is.

00:33:19

Speaker 2: I feel like I've been trying to manage my own ghosted experiences as something rather than try to manage the idea of the ending of a friendship or something like that,

00:33:34

Speaker 2: you know, instead trying to get into that space of

00:33:37

Speaker 2: this is what happens. People do fall out of touch with each other. Sometimes it's intentional, sometimes it's not

00:33:44

Speaker 2: because you're left with that kind of blank space that ghosting creates for myself. I try for one or two outreach is maybe a third if it's a friend that I'm pretty convinced still wants to be a friend, but maybe,

00:33:58

Speaker 2: you know, maybe I got something wrong or maybe the time just isn't a good time in their life to be a friend.

00:34:06

Speaker 2: It can be hard to sometimes get back on track with a friendship or

00:34:11

Speaker 2: or keep one going.

00:34:13

Speaker 2: But after a couple outreaches, if I'm really not hearing anything back, I tend to drop things too. I tend to just leave it at that and

00:34:23

Speaker 2: I I try to do the open heart thing of just say, you know, if this person is interested in hanging out with me, if they're interested in spending time with me,

00:34:33

Speaker 2: they will let me know that I feel like pandemic has added an extra layer to all of this. I can remember back in the really hard times of january and february of 2021 of this year

00:34:46

Speaker 2: where it was Vermont, Covid, we didn't have vaccines yet. It was just a really hard time. We we at that time were not allowed to hang out and socialist. We had mandates on sort of how many households could get together and that sort of thing. And I was abiding by them.

00:35:03

Speaker 2: And I remember thinking well I've just lost this couple as friends. Like they're just there. I can't believe they've never called. I can't believe there's no text messages between us

00:35:14

Speaker 2: and when we were able to get back together after vaccinations in the spring, the couple and myself both admitted to each other that there were a lot of hesitating moments where we had like typed out text messages but then deleted them thinking no

00:35:30

Speaker 2: like if they wanted to know they would have gotten in touch, you know, both kind of assuming the same things and then not reaching out.

00:35:37

Speaker 2: And it was really good when we finally did connect both to clear the air about that and to remind me for going into this winter, reach out to them. They're not trying to get rid of you as a friend, you know what I mean?

00:35:51

Speaker 1: Absolutely. And you're starting to get to something that I was really curious about here. And I was thinking about the directionality of friendships and who's initiating who's responding.

00:36:00

Speaker 1: And

00:36:01

Speaker 1: I like your kind of natural accounting where you say to yourself, how many times have I issued an invitation

00:36:08

Speaker 1: and an accounting of. Okay, so that hasn't landed a couple of times. Maybe a third time is going to be my last shot, but maybe not even I might take note. Okay. I tried I tried again. It's really something I'm interested. The third might creep in there, but

00:36:25

Speaker 2: give it some time.

00:36:27

Speaker 1: Exactly. And I think that's a pretty natural

00:36:30

Speaker 1: place coming the other way. Also, I think that if you ignore a couple invitations, that is enough to communicate to most people that you're not interested.

00:36:41

Speaker 1: It's hard if it's a specific invitation because you are supposed to respond if someone's really invited you to a specific thing, so I wouldn't ignore something that direct.

00:36:51

Speaker 1: But if it's more sort of a general feeling out, are you interested in this kind of thing or that kind of thing? Group requests, sometimes you can scale back your participation by just not participating as much, that's a version of ghosting, but

00:37:07

Speaker 1: I think it's also a pretty socially coherent version of it in terms of our social expectations of each other.

00:37:12

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that if there's a particular thing, like we've gotten into a routine of meeting up on Tuesdays for a certain show or if there's a real rhythm that's developed an expectation in the relationship that you're going to change,

00:37:28

Speaker 1: I think those sometimes weren't explanations

00:37:31

Speaker 2: and I like where you're thinking about this

00:37:32

Speaker 1: because I also think that those are easier to explain because you can explain them from your perspective and I wanted to get into this before we left the question, which is that your reasons for pulling back from a friendship or

00:37:46

Speaker 1: changing a routine like that? Can have everything to do with you and nothing to do with someone else? And if you are giving someone else the courtesy of explaining why you're changing or altering what might have been a social expectation that developed between you

00:38:04

Speaker 1: really keeping the focus on yourself and your choices is the way that I would

00:38:09

Speaker 1: focus that discussion. So

00:38:12

Speaker 1: I'm trying to spend more time with my spouse, so I'm going to bow out of our Tuesday nights for now because I really need to be spending that time with my family or at home makes perfect sense. I now, as the other person understand that I'm not going to be anticipating doing that, that

00:38:31

Speaker 1: it's not something that's going to change next week. It wasn't a one time excuse, it was about

00:38:35

Speaker 1: altering this routine,

00:38:37

Speaker 1: and it also wasn't about me, I'm getting bored. The show didn't last well, and neither did our friendship, It doesn't need to be something like that. It can really be about you

00:38:50

Speaker 1: and that's the art of good etiquette, how you build and set those boundaries in your life with kind and benevolent truths that aren't necessarily harsh or hurtful for other people, but also give them enough information to have a good relationship with you moving forward,

00:39:05

Speaker 2: wondering in Vermont this is a great question, Thank you for giving us a chance to explore it on the show and we want to hear from more of our audience on this one, what do you guys think about ghosting, what do you think about ending things directly with friendships as opposed to relationships?

00:39:24

Speaker 2: Definitely get your feedback in. We want to hear more voices on this topic.

00:39:30

Speaker 1: Well, johnny's room and so he doesn't think of others. He won't take turns and he always seems to be mad at somebody always shot here, bossing us around. You don't think he really wants to be that way, do you? Maybe he doesn't mean to be selfish, but he is.

00:39:55

Speaker 2: Our next question is titled food interception, very football themed.

00:40:00

Speaker 2: Hello, I'm a longtime listener, but can't recall if you've answered this question, do you have any advice or sample scripts for parents hoping to graciously intercept of food offering like a piece of candy or other sweet treat from another adult to your child? Thank you, anonymous,

00:40:18

Speaker 1: anonymous, Thank you for the question. So the answer is you got to be really quick,

00:40:22

Speaker 1: Just be natural. You know, just be really natural and then just snatch it before it gets into their hand. As a parent, you get to set some boundaries in life that we rarely get to set for other people and um what kind of food kids eat is a big one and what kind of gifts kids receive is a second one. Those are the two classic

00:40:44

Speaker 1: parent at ticketing areas where you really have some appropriate authority to step in and set the parameters. If you can do it ahead of time, that's always the best. So if you can head it off before they get the

00:41:01

Speaker 1: confection in their eyes, you can see it reflecting off their glossy little eyeballs as they get wide.

00:41:08

Speaker 1: To me. That's always the opportune time and it is okay. It is okay to talk to other parents, talk to grandparents, talk to the Mosses and messages about what are appropriate and what isn't appropriate in terms of

00:41:23

Speaker 1: your expectations. And and that can change. You can change over the course of the day. It could be, it's too close to naptime, it's too close to bedtime. So what looked like a perfectly normal treat a little earlier in the day might not be appropriate at this moment. Snatch it really is okay. You can you can intercede. And the expansion of the advice is it's

00:41:43

Speaker 1: always good to offer good and reasonable explanations both to the person who's making the offering and to the child has been denied the offering if you weren't able to head it off before it was offered in front of them letting them know what the boundary is, what the limit is. And they are probably familiar with. It is really respectful and really addressing that to both of them is

00:42:08

Speaker 1: to me where the good parenting comes in. If you're interceding in that particular moment

00:42:13

Speaker 2: because you've totally nailed the parents side of this and I think you've given

00:42:18

Speaker 1: us such

00:42:19

Speaker 2: good places to go to both ahead of time and in the moment that it's, it's okay to kind of stop the thing even if it's been given and you got to say, oh, I'm sorry honey. You know, uncle jim didn't know that we don't eat treats before nap time, but let's cover it up and save it or it's unfortunately something we, we don't tend to eat so we're going to have to put it away.

00:42:39

Speaker 2: I think those are both fine things to do. But I also really want to talk

00:42:43

Speaker 2: to people who have kids in their lives and like people like me who don't have kids or people who have kids and have a different set of rules for them. It's really important to always ask a parent before you offer something exciting and wonderful to a kid, whether it's a gift or it's a sweet treat

00:43:01

Speaker 2: or it's the promise of an adventure.

00:43:04

Speaker 2: Um, I know that I always try to check in with my sister and her husband or whichever one of them is on kid duty at that moment. No parents are always on kid duty. Um,

00:43:16

Speaker 2: whether it's, hey, can we go for a walk around the neighborhood or go take the kids to my house for a dog visit, something like that or it's, I wanted to bring, you know these cookies that I made by is tonight a good night for it.

00:43:30

Speaker 2: I know that my sister and her husband really appreciate that and that it makes it easier for them to stick to

00:43:36

Speaker 2: the boundaries and the goals that they have for their kids. It's been really fun watching them introduce sweet treats to the kids routines and things like that and like that there are special things that we do and like after nap when they're at papa and La la's house on the weekends, they get these little teeny tiny mini ice cream cones that we make for them

00:43:58

Speaker 2: and they will wake up from their naps and the first thing they want is that ice cream cone. So sometimes it's really about paying attention to what parents are trying to achieve and being a really good supporter of that. So it's just my call out to everyone who's got kids in their lives, but they're not the

00:44:16

Speaker 1: parent post. I want to give you an etiquette gold star.

00:44:20

Speaker 2: I want to give your kids a lot of sugar and see what happens. Just kidding.

00:44:25

Speaker 1: We're pretty much running that experiment on that. I know I

00:44:28

Speaker 2: was like, you guys don't have too many boundaries. You're very like, well you guys cook really good food for the kids. I feel like you guys also allow them to go treat wild when they, when they want to on the vineyard. It was, I've got to say on the vineyard, it was so much fun to go to the candy store that dan and I went to as kids after our lemonade stands and things like that and take the girls and show them the things that we loved getting. I think they got like candy necklaces that you and I were both really like excited

00:44:57

Speaker 1: about the same rock candy lollies cross it.

00:45:01

Speaker 1: I bought there as a child and my mother probably bought there as a child. Unbelievable anonymous. Thank you for the question about the food interception. I wish I had better advice for how to get that snatch happening in a really fluid way. You just gotta be quick, right, stay relax, take a breath like that flow out of you. Just grab real fast.

00:45:22

Speaker 1: Thank you for the question. We hope our answer helps. But did Bill leave his pop and candy only half eaten.

00:45:30

Speaker 1: No sir, he emptied that pop bottle as fast as he could. He gobbled down all his candy, Everything tastes good.

00:45:40

Speaker 1: Mhm.

00:45:41

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post inst on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette. Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:46:13

Speaker 2: If you love awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member where memberships start at just a dollar per month by visiting us at Patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads, free version of the show and access to bonus content and questions

00:46:32

Speaker 2: plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air

00:46:37

Speaker 2: to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.

00:46:42

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover

00:46:48

Speaker 1: today, we have feedback from episode 39 about pictures of baby bumps,

00:46:54

Speaker 1: dear lizzie and dan. I am writing to offer some perspective on the question from episode 309 about responding to requests for baby bump photos. I recently had my first child like the question ask her certain close family members and friends requested bump photos during my pregnancy. A sign of the Covid times, I suppose

00:47:14

Speaker 1: the few photos I sent in response are some of the only photos I have of myself while pregnant.

00:47:19

Speaker 1: I was not super keen on taking bump photos because like the question asked her, I had some discomfort with my changing body.

00:47:26

Speaker 1: Also, I was putting little effort into my appearance because I was rarely leaving home due to Covid.

00:47:32

Speaker 1: I completely agree that the question asked her should not share bump photos if they are not comfortable doing so.

00:47:38

Speaker 1: However, I suggest that the question asked her consider taking some or more bump photos for their own memories if they aren't already.

00:47:47

Speaker 1: Now that I am no longer pregnant, I really wish I had more photos from that time. I don't have a single one from the last few weeks before baby arrived.

00:47:55

Speaker 1: The question asked her, may feel differently about their pregnant body once it is gone and be glad to have some photos to look back on. If not, they can simply delete the photos

00:48:05

Speaker 1: all the best to you both as well as to the question Askar anonymous,

00:48:09

Speaker 2: anonymous. Thank you for that feedback. We also had feedback today from Mikayla on episode 3 60 five's question about how to handle international birthday gifts from family and friends when you're living abroad.

00:48:23

Speaker 1: I have some feedback on the question from a listener living overseas who wasn't receiving gifts or packages the way she was expecting.

00:48:31

Speaker 1: I have lived abroad in the past and have also had family members who have as well and have run into similar issues.

00:48:37

Speaker 1: One thing that wasn't discussed or considered was the possibility that some might be hesitant to use international websites or to ship internationally just because it is unknown to them. I have family members who didn't want to order from websites based in other countries because they personally were unsure about the security of the website

00:48:54

Speaker 1: despite being reputable in the country of origin

00:48:57

Speaker 1: or they didn't trust that a package sent overseas would make it over the sea despite being told exactly how to fill out the shipping information

00:49:05

Speaker 1: or the currency conversion on the website was off putting for whatever reason.

00:49:10

Speaker 1: An alternative that we found to work well was for those bigger gift giving occasions my parents would share with our family that they would be shipping a gift to me and that others were welcome to include their gifts in the shipment. That way family members could purchase something from somewhere they know and trust and trust that the shipping provider, my parents

00:49:28

Speaker 1: knew how best to get the package to me and that it would arrive safely

00:49:33

Speaker 1: in my case my parents covered the full international shipping costs but I'm sure there's a considerate way to go about asking for others to contribute towards that. I hope this helps the birthday girl, Michaela,

00:49:43

Speaker 2: Michaela. Thank you so much for that suggestion. It is truly helpful advice for a sticky situation.

00:49:50

Speaker 1: Let's keep those gifts flowing.

00:49:54

Speaker 2: Yeah,

00:49:56

Speaker 2: thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 K. I. N. D. That's 802858546

00:50:12

Speaker 1: three.

00:50:20

Speaker 2: It's time for our post script where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and even though it is still october now is the perfect time to start thinking about our holiday plans.

00:50:34

Speaker 2: Especially when it comes to anything that might involve travel, getting ahead of the game, reaching out with your invitations early can make all the difference

00:50:44

Speaker 2: dan. I'm thinking about our our classic like thanksgiving even even a little further down the road, the december holidays in the new year or things to be thinking of this time of year already. I know I was really trying to get ahead of it with our post scripts and make sure that we're not hitting people

00:51:05

Speaker 2: the week that you might see people arriving but ahead of time to plan

00:51:09

Speaker 2: and well done because I'm

00:51:10

Speaker 1: already feeling bad because I'm falling down on the thanksgiving holiday planning that I'm supposed to be helping to coordinate with cousin joe in boston and I'm I'm just failing and the time is running out. It's five weeks away or six. I

00:51:22

Speaker 2: won't lie. This was heavily inspired by the fact that I heard

00:51:26

Speaker 2: I heard I overheard I was eavesdropping on my mother who was on the phone with either billy or Maureen talking about how we were all going to handle christmas this year and that maybe we wouldn't be doing the big post family gathering and not just because of Covid but because

00:51:45

Speaker 2: everyone's got grandkids now and the days just so full and maybe we'll just do a little gathering outside or we'll gather the next day like changes are afoot.

00:51:55

Speaker 2: And so it got me thinking about frankly thanksgiving, which, which comes earlier on the timeline. Okay, can I interrupt for just one second? Sure, sure.

00:52:05

Speaker 1: Total personal story interruption here, which is the generation above me did the same thing on the sending side. Oh, did they

00:52:13

Speaker 1: announced mid summer that they were no longer responsible for the big sending family, thanksgiving that it was just too much to organize that for people and three turkeys and if we all wanted it and they were sure that we did and they loved having it, but that it was time for the next generation to stand up and stop counting on them to do it.

00:52:34

Speaker 1: So anyway, that was my moment of panic at the start of the call because of a similar change in a generational holiday party is causing a little bit of anxiety in my life.

00:52:47

Speaker 2: So if you are thinking of changing things, definitely speak up with your family now. But for most folks, there are a lot of traditions and probably traditional guest lists that

00:52:58

Speaker 2: that happened this time of year and right now at the end of october is a really good time to be thinking about exactly how you want your holiday to go if you are hosting and to be reaching out and making those invitations within the next week or so so that folks can prepare, they can get their bearings straight. So

00:53:18

Speaker 2: really taking the time to think about that guest list, think about who you need to call and coordinate with to make this happen, Who you might need to check in if your co organizing something

00:53:27

Speaker 2: or in the case of dan's family, who it is that you will be passing the torch to whether they want it or not. Um

00:53:36

Speaker 2: but these are, these are all things that lead us to something we talked about a couple of weeks ago which was inviting Well and when it comes to these big group gatherings were often going to be asking folks to bring something right, it's often a community meal or a community experience. Maybe if you're not bringing food, you're bringing some form of entertainment.

00:53:57

Speaker 2: I love the fact that dan's parents always get us our little scratch tickets and bring them to our christmas celebrations or that your dad, whenever he is hosting, comes up with holiday games for us to play. I'm such a nerd, I love that so much

00:54:14

Speaker 2: but it is, it's the time to be thinking about who are we going to be inviting this year and how are we going to set that up and with the inviting. Well I think that we just like last year we are in a position where we have to talk about safety and precautions that might mean that you're saying things like

00:54:32

Speaker 2: we really want to be able to see everyone, however were only comfortable with fully vaccinated guests at this point or it might be saying something like everyone is welcome for the big meal. However we are going to ask the unvaccinated folks please wear masks.

00:54:47

Speaker 2: These are the kinds of things that we are unfortunately still in the position of needing to talk about and needing to outline for folks and outlining ahead of time is the way to go. And I know for some folks those could be really difficult conversations we've heard from other question Nascar's on the show before,

00:55:07

Speaker 2: that sometimes this does not go well.

00:55:09

Speaker 2: I would be really careful with how I issue these invitations in terms of the method, you know, we we saw someone have a tough interaction via text message at one point, it might be that a phone call is the easier, more gentle way to explain some of these boundaries.

00:55:27

Speaker 2: It might be that the mass email to the whole family is the way to go because it lets people react on their own or figure out their own

00:55:35

Speaker 2: either ability or willingness to participate the way that you're asking them to participate. And it might be that the text messages the right way to go, You never know. But really taking the time to think about it and inviting. Well is important for this particular holiday and especially during this this pandemic year,

00:55:54

Speaker 1: I think a big part of that inviting. Well

00:55:57

Speaker 1: also involves the next step in the process, which is having some idea of the nature of the event and what you want the event to look like. So that the invitation can include some direction for people about any particulars that that might be important. And maybe it's that they don't forget to bring that incredible creamy cauliflower with the ham that they bring every year. But people really count on it. So you want to be sure that you're not going to try something different this year

00:56:26

Speaker 1: or it might be that change is afoot and

00:56:30

Speaker 1: that you want to talk about ahead of time,

00:56:33

Speaker 1: the ways that people will participate. So they've got lots of time to get ready.

00:56:37

Speaker 2: And if you are my mother 10 years ago hosting and nearly 30 person thanksgiving every year, you don't just delegate the food that people might be able to bring. And just as a reminder, when we say, delegate the food that people might be bringing or what they might be contributing to the meal,

00:56:53

Speaker 2: it's not so much that you tell people, here's a recipe, you have to make this. In fact, that's not the way to go.

00:56:59

Speaker 2: But you give people options like we're looking for these types of side dishes or we were really hoping you might be willing to contribute to a dessert. Does that seem like something that's in your wheelhouse,

00:57:11

Speaker 1: unless it's Maureen's cauliflower because then we're going to tell her exactly what to make

00:57:16

Speaker 2: Maureen make that cauliflower dish

00:57:18

Speaker 2: and she's so wonderful because she makes two separate versions, one for the vegetarians and one for the meat eaters. It's great, she's awesome, she's awesome.

00:57:25

Speaker 2: But you do you want to allow for some flexibility and that also brings us to our next point which is that just because you are the host and we want to give the host quite a lot of control and quite a lot of agency in this situation because you are the host.

00:57:41

Speaker 2: You also want to be flexible. You want to try to roll with it when someone says oh gosh, you know we're actually driving up and we've got X, y and Z going on the days before the holiday. Do you think we could just pick up a pie at the store roll with it, say yes, I'm sure that store bought pie is going to be great and next year you can you can have you know, plans for the homemade one.

00:58:02

Speaker 2: But I think that it's it's important to try to think about these sort of derangement or suggestions that might come your way when you make a suggestion

00:58:11

Speaker 2: for what someone might bring or how the holiday might work and it doesn't mean you have to go with the flow on everything, but you want to have polite ways to decline something. Oh well you know I can totally understand where you might be thinking that bringing a whole lasagna to thanksgiving just adds more to the meal. But I think we're going to be covered with the turkey and all the sides this year

00:58:34

Speaker 2: if they end up bringing the lasagna anyway, roll with it, you know what I mean?

00:58:39

Speaker 1: We're going to keep it pleasant. Is that what you're saying?

00:58:41

Speaker 2: I think we're going to try to keep it pleasant.

00:58:45

Speaker 1: It's a good reminder that no matter what comes up, whether it's people supporting you or let's just say rubbing against the grain, perhaps that ultimately the idea is that you're doing this for the sake of getting together, honoring each other, building and growing relationships and

00:59:04

Speaker 1: every effort that you can make

00:59:06

Speaker 1: to keep that experience as pleasant as possible for everyone is ultimately, I think the biggest picture umbrella piece of etiquette that we can give

00:59:17

Speaker 1: once upon a time. This particular piece of advice was centered around a particular question that we used to get asked almost every year. Do you remember lizzie vos, what was a very

00:59:26

Speaker 1: typical holiday dinner question that it's been a couple years that we haven't been asked? I'm

00:59:31

Speaker 2: stumped, but I think it might be, what do you do when people show up with extra guests or extra food that you weren't planning on, that sort of thing? Is it, is it the extra question

00:59:42

Speaker 2: close?

00:59:42

Speaker 1: I was thinking about the how do I talk politics at the oh my holiday dinner table,

00:59:48

Speaker 2: you are so right,

00:59:49

Speaker 1: how do I avoid talking politics with holiday their

00:59:51

Speaker 2: table, that is one of our biggest

00:59:55

Speaker 1: thinking to myself, how much easier it's going to be to keep it pleasant if you've had all of your discussions about masks and vaccinations ahead of time. Okay. That in some way we might be setting up the scenario where you get through all of the political conversations a month, a month and a half before you actually get together. That in some ways that

01:00:13

Speaker 2: just discussing the setup gets you there?

01:00:16

Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Have set up to get you through the door, are going to homogeneous the crowd just a little bit.

01:00:23

Speaker 1: The other thing that I'm remembering, it was a not fair question to ask you in some ways is that it was maybe two years ago now that we started talking about how we weren't getting so many political questions about

01:00:38

Speaker 1: conversations at the family dinner table. And I think

01:00:41

Speaker 1: part of that was a political environment where those questions seemed to be more and more fraught and more and more difficult. And I think people were naturally avoiding them more or we're just sequestering themselves

01:00:52

Speaker 2: or it's not an election year.

01:00:54

Speaker 1: Exactly. And I think with the pandemic layered on top of that reality,

01:01:00

Speaker 1: it's been a while since we've heard that question about talking politics at the dinner table and

01:01:04

Speaker 1: in some ways I'm hoping maybe it's going to make it easier to keep it pleasant this year.

01:01:08

Speaker 2: Whoever you are inviting to your table or to your house, whether it's for the night or the weekend. We really hope that as a host, you can feel confident and comfortable gathering your family and friends for the holiday season. Well,

01:01:29

Speaker 2: we like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms. And today we have a salute from Mackenzie.

01:01:39

Speaker 1: I want to give a salute to a woman who lifted my soul. The other day I was unloading my two small Children out of a car at the local target

01:01:47

Speaker 1: while I was strapping my baby into my carrier. A woman stopped to tell me how beautiful my Children were. I told her thank you While still struggling with the straps clips and baby body parts.

01:01:58

Speaker 1: She then complimented my daughter who was standing next to me at how well she was waiting and then looked at me and said, you are doing such important work. The way she looked at me and the way she said those words was almost more powerful than the words themselves.

01:02:13

Speaker 1: Her sincerity caused me to really stop and feel what she was offering me. I had been deeply struggling and feeling successful in my role as a mother.

01:02:22

Speaker 1: Everything had been feeling almost insurmountable hard. It is difficult to describe how scene and encouraged this stranger made me feel sometimes. I wonder if she was perhaps not a stranger but an angel sent from above. Either way I want to salute her kindness. Mackenzie

01:02:40

Speaker 2: Mackenzie, thank you so much for that salute dan as a parent. I'm sure that you can imagine how unbelievably amazing it must feel to have someone observe

01:02:51

Speaker 2: you as a parent and give you credit for it. Just a total random stranger that must be just like I can picture McKenzie feeling like a superhero after hearing

01:03:01

Speaker 1: that I am sitting here listening to

01:03:04

Speaker 1: pu jian the girls dancing down in the kitchen to some music they're playing while they make lunch and I'm thinking to myself, I really want to take the salute down and share it with pooja

01:03:15

Speaker 1: Mackenzie, thank you so much for this salute.

01:03:20

Speaker 2: Thank you

01:03:22

Speaker 1: for listening and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon, please

01:03:28

Speaker 2: connect with us and share this show with friends, family and co workers

01:03:33

Speaker 1: anyway that you like to share podcasts, you can send us your next question feedback or salute by email to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com.

01:03:42

Speaker 1: You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post institute.

01:03:58

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01:04:01

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01:04:04

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01:04:06

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01:04:16

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01:04:17

Speaker 2: helps our show ranking, which helps more people find awesome

01:04:21

Speaker 1: etiquette. Our show is edited by Kris Albertine and assistant produced by Bridget Dowd.

01:04:26

Speaker 1: Thanks, Chris Bridget, Bridget

01:04:28

Speaker 1: mm hmm.