Episode 381 - To Go Tipping

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy. That's old fashioned

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Speaker 2: watch

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Speaker 1: act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Hello

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Speaker 2: and welcome to awesome etiquette

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Speaker 1: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On

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Speaker 2: today's show, we take your questions on compromising when family members don't want to travel for weddings, tipping on to go orders,

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Speaker 2: saying it was nice to meet you out of habit even when it's not nice to meet somebody

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Speaker 2: and responding properly when someone you know goes through something very difficult or scary

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Speaker 1: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about sending an R. S. V. P. For one person in a couple but not both.

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Speaker 2: Plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a post script on you guessed it. Thank you. Notes all

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Speaker 1: that's coming up

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie post

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Speaker 1: and I'm and I have to wish you a happy solstice cousin lizzie.

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Speaker 2: That was yesterday cousin dan. It was,

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Speaker 1: it was but I know it's

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Speaker 2: one of your favorites. I know it's one of your favorites.

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Speaker 1: Well,

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Speaker 2: yeah. And you pay for the happy solstice wishes. I'm glad we got to connect on solstice. But bummer because we also got the news on solstice that the you know due to safety precautions are family was canceling our post family gathering that everyone was looking forward to.

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Speaker 2: So I am I am very sad that when this lands I will not have seen your, your shining face and puja and the girls shining faces on day after christmas boxing day,

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Speaker 2: I feel like it was, it was the right call, there were enough family members that were getting worried and and just feeling you know our first case and omicron in Vermont showed up that it was just probably a good idea with all these families coming from different places to not even go for the outdoor gathering.

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Speaker 1: It had already been

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Speaker 1: expanded in the sense that the nature of the event had been changed some to accommodate different people's safety levels and comfort and

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Speaker 1: I wasn't 100% surprised when I got the note from your mother and I wanted to tell our audience that for me it was an awesome etiquette moment

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Speaker 1: because I was instantly thinking about the question we did about rain checks a couple weeks ago and I found myself in the position of sort of cheekily asking your mother for a rain check by way of saying, I did also awesome etiquette moment. I was thinking to myself

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Speaker 1: this is the host guest dance. I just heard from the host technically there's nothing I have to send back but it would be nice just to touch base with her and let her know that maybe however she's feeling about it. It landed well and that that I'm I'm there for,

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Speaker 2: can we dive into that moment for a second? Because when I talked to Trish post on the phone, she was very bummed that she had. So it must have been before you talked to her but she hadn't heard from anybody back about the party being canceled and I was so glad I did it. I'm so glad you did too because I was in the midst of trying to awesome etiquette her and be like you know mom, I I totally understand like validate the feelings

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Speaker 2: but then say you know to you gotta understand you use an electronic invitation. Sometimes people look at those as just like

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Speaker 2: just less of a deal. And I know that a lot of people don't always respond when they get notifications from an electronic communication invitation. So an even fight or something like that, I think she used paperless post,

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Speaker 2: but I think dan you bring up a really great point of thinking about that host guest dance and my mother was clearly feeling the lack of response

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Speaker 2: and I feel like we should really when we're talking about digital invitations and even text messaged invitations that it's probably on us to to really be hammering home the point of a response really should happen here. You know, even though these are casual, these are

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Speaker 2: ways we're really used to communicating in often ways we communicate where we don't always hear from someone back necessarily

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Speaker 2: that it's still really important it makes a difference to the host, at least to my mother in this case. So I'm, I bet your call was really your, your note to her was really appreciated. So thank you for doing that. Well,

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Speaker 1: the smaller ball etiquette question that came up was

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Speaker 1: is this going to get back to her? And I had to do the thing where I didn't just read the email, but I popped it open to see who the return,

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Speaker 1: who the reply would go

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Speaker 2: to you because it comes through the service

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Speaker 1: and it was directly to your mother. So that that was a good feature that made it much easier. I could just send her and it didn't go to everybody. It just went to her and it was also the nature of the event a little bit, I think oftentimes

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Speaker 1: that kind of invitation is for maybe a bigger event, you're managing a much larger group, but this is, this is a family christmas gathering and no, it makes perfect sense that you would use that mechanism. But the event itself felt special enough to me that I thought the host,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know how your mother would be feeling about it, but I guess that she probably had different feelings about it and I wanted to let her know that it was that we were also bummed and also understood and also were appreciative of the care that she was taking with everybody.

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Speaker 2: I was proud of my parents, I think they, they really wanted this party to happen. This was not for lack of like, you know

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Speaker 2: enthusiasm about the party. I think sometimes it's a little bit of a relief when the thing gets canceled if you, you know, you haven't baked your cookies yet or you, this was the day you were really exhausted, it was going to take a lot to get you to that thing or you know, this wasn't an escape hatch and

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Speaker 2: and I know I have been really looking forward to it. I mean I was like requesting you bring decorations of a special kind to this party. Like I was really excited to see all the little cousin kids together again, not us, but the generation below try to cement some of those bonds, you know, I know, I know that like my branch of the family, you guys all live so close together,

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Speaker 2: our kids don't get to see your kids that much and so

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Speaker 2: it was gonna be really cool. And also I love the idea of everyone coming to my folks house in charlotte and we got snow on the ground and there's a nice little sledding hill plus the driveway both provide sledding options and you know marshmallows and s'mores and

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Speaker 2: it was just sounding like, like exactly the kind of pick up and and it felt like the idea of an outdoor outdoor with a little bit of indoor to go in to use the bathroom or things like that and grab some food,

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Speaker 2: it was feeling like the right thing and just the news in Vermont just kind of kept getting worse in terms of what, what's going on here, which is really sad and we certainly are our well wishes are going out to families and friends who are experiencing the tougher part of this but I was both proud of my parents for taking that initiative as hosts

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Speaker 2: to cancel and at the same time I was really really sad

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Speaker 2: so I'm gonna miss seeing you next week because maybe we can get together and go sledding during our little week off in between.

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Speaker 1: This is true,

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Speaker 2: but I know that we are not yet on vacation. In fact this is kind of our last two rob before we take off and

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Speaker 2: start becoming very merry little elves in our lives, I still have quite a lot of like candy to make

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Speaker 1: and things like

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Speaker 2: that but

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Speaker 1: I know I'm still

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Speaker 2: still going, still going, I've still got three days

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Speaker 2: and because it's not the end of our work week yet, shall we do our podcast and get to some questions,

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Speaker 1: let's do it,

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Speaker 2: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions, you can email them to, awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind that's 8028585463, program it into your phone

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Speaker 2: or you can reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst I N S T on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the

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Speaker 1: show.

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Speaker 1: Our first question this week is a tough one called Wedding Travel Woes.

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Speaker 1: Good morning. My name is Kendra. I am a longtime fan of your great great grandmother's advice. How odd it must be to hear that.

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Speaker 1: And a recent fan of the podcast. I am currently planning a wedding and I am facing a dilemma. Well, congratulations on the wedding. The wedding is in June 2022 in Florida. Not for a destination, but because I grew up there and my family lives in or near the state and they are paying for it.

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Speaker 1: My future grandmother in law insists that she cannot travel to florida from Arizona for our wedding, not for the cost we offered to pay but for convenience. It hurts me because she is going to her granddaughter's wedding in september and traveling to Washington state for the event.

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Speaker 1: As a result, the relationship is already off to a tough start.

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Speaker 1: To make matters worse, she keeps saying we need to host another smaller reception in Arizona for those who can't travel and asking us for details.

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Speaker 1: We cannot afford a second reception. This is complicated in itself, but I would like to propose a solution to keep everyone happy.

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Speaker 1: I thought of a compromise. Perhaps she could host the bridal shower in Arizona for other guests that are unavailable to travel. How do we bring this up to her? Can we ask her to host? And if not, how can we include her without spending money? We don't have.

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Speaker 1: Please let me know if you have a solution. Thank you for all that. You do sincerely Kendra C

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Speaker 2: Kendra, congratulations on your upcoming wedding. You are in a tough spot And that's a tough thing to feel. I think when you're getting married, you want it to be that that joyous everybody really coming together uh feeling and especially when a grandparent who is usually a pretty beloved figure in a family

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Speaker 2: says they're not going to make it because of convenience.

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Speaker 2: It can be a hard pill to swallow. That's a tough one. But at the same time, I think we always, no matter what event we are throwing have to recognize that our guests, what we're doing is we're asking them if they'd like to come to something

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Speaker 2: and if they say they can't or they don't want to. It's too complicated for them. That's a part of I think the host guest dance is then respecting their decision

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Speaker 2: and understanding that okay, that I would like them to make a different decision, but they're not and there's not much that you can do about that. I like your idea of uh seeing if she'd like to host a shower. I'm wondering, are you two going to maybe travel

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Speaker 2: to it for the shower? And I'm thinking Jack and Jill here just because it's your fiancee's grandmother, uh and and it doesn't have to be, certainly a fiancee's grandmother could host something for their incoming family member, but it's, I think worthwhile to kind of figure out what you're willing to do if she says yes to something like that.

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Speaker 2: If you're not, for instance, flying and traveling at this time,

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Speaker 2: it might be a little more complicated if she is then not comfortable with zoom. So you got to kind of determine what, what would really happen if, if she were to say yes to that particular bridal shower in Arizona, just so that you're prepared. But I do think offering something like that is okay

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Speaker 2: dan, For me, I think one of the tough parts about this is communicating the fact that the second reception isn't going to happen.

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Speaker 2: And it might be that you two are thinking about it a little differently. You might want to ask grandma what it is that she's like imagining for, you know, don't say anticipating, don't say expecting, but imagining for a second reception because sometimes there is simple as a dinner gathering,

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Speaker 2: you know, with casual buffet food and it's really just a chance to be with the couple

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Speaker 2: and get those folks who couldn't make the trip to be with the couple. And I think that it can sometimes sound like it's going to be the whole shebang all over again and it really doesn't have to be, it could be very, very simple, casual. Um You could do an afternoon tea,

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Speaker 2: you could do just a cocktail party style with heavy hors d'oeuvres, that kind of thing. So

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't kick grandma's idea out just yet but I would really evaluate whether or not it's something that can happen either financially or another thing to do is to say grandma, is that something you'd be interested in in hosting and putting together for us um You mentioned cost being one of the issues, so I think there's still some teasing out of that second

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Speaker 2: reception idea that could happen and could actually work out in a way that would work for you

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Speaker 2: if it's not if you're not getting that out of it, if it's she's not gonna pay and she wants it to be a big deal and all of that. I think then you and potentially even your fiance's parents,

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Speaker 2: I need to help to make it clear to grandma that that's financially not a viable option and that while you really appreciate the suggestion, it's not something you can entertain.

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Speaker 2: Then I think you could move to the suggestion of doing a bridal shower or talking with grandma about some ways that she might be able to participate. Um is it that she chooses a particular reading that gets read at the ceremony or maybe she records a toast for you for the reception at the wedding and you can play that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, there's lots of great things we can do with video now and

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Speaker 2: and also with streaming and that sort of stuff. I know some folks, rather than just having an open stream, live stream of the wedding, that it'll be that they actually touch base with a few key people who couldn't make it throughout the wedding. And those people give a speech or just even if it's not to the whole group, the whole wedding, you know, group

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Speaker 2: that they are able to find a moment with just the couple kind of off to the side and, and they get that close connection moment with them. So lots of different ways to make this work. Um, but I think it's it's it's really hard when it's a particular family member that you'd really like to have there and you see them going to other weddings, but not yours. I want to sympathize with that, but don't let that stop you from moving forward with figuring out a plan.

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Speaker 2: Not that it sounded like it was going to, it's just that the good advice out there, you know,

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Speaker 1: lizzie post, I call this a difficult question and I'm doing my best not to jump in because the more I hear you talk, the less difficult it feels to me.

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Speaker 2: And you know,

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Speaker 1: I I think I think part of it was um I sensed an emotional difficulty, just a hurt around not feeling like grandma wants to be there. So that's a tough place to start from. And then I also, I was seeing some etiquette hiccups that

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Speaker 1: as I heard you talk, I felt like they were less problematic than they felt to me. When I first read the question,

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Speaker 2: I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about the awkwardness of asking someone to host a shower for you and thinking of it as a real etiquette hurdle if that makes any sense. That hey, wouldn't it be great if you threw a party for me that involved everyone getting me gifts. And

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Speaker 2: at the same

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Speaker 1: time,

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Speaker 1: I know that the reality of those types of parties is that they're oftentimes discussed with care but more freely among a small group of people who are responsible for putting them on being the guest of honor. And it's precisely the close relationship of those people that allows them to negotiate

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Speaker 1: what could feel like a potentially fraught etiquette situation of

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Speaker 1: a guest having preferences or maybe even a guest of honor. I mean having preferences

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Speaker 1: or even an idea about who would be a good host and

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Speaker 1: there is such an opportunity here that

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Speaker 1: I think that you could open that discussion up and it would depend more on how you approached it than the particular etiquette concerns that I had coming in and as I listened to you talk, it felt so natural

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking to myself, of course there are lots of opportunities here and as long as it doesn't feel like a negotiation, as long as people don't approach it, feeling like they're owed things like it's a tip for tat, so you couldn't make this so maybe you could do this or oh no, but we're already doing this. So we'd rather not do that. That it's,

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Speaker 1: it's more that each thing is approached

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Speaker 1: on its own with the potential that it has to facilitate the family coming together. And

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Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about the idea of continuing to tease out the reception idea. That might be easier than the shower, that might be the,

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Speaker 2: honestly it might really be. And it's already the thing grandma is interested in. So

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Speaker 1: win, win, win and it might not work out that might be the,

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Speaker 1: in the end, it doesn't work out for there to be events in Arizona. That that's just too much for

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Speaker 1: Kendra and her partner to commit to or to organize at this point. And

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Speaker 1: I also appreciated your idea that it's okay to say no. Also that it's, it's, it's okay to say no, we can't host a reception in your city and it doesn't need to be because you couldn't make it to our wedding or

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Speaker 1: the two aren't equal enough that I'd be willing to do that. It can just stand on its own as a no and that's okay. Also

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Speaker 2: Kendra, we really hope that despite this one, hiccup the rest of your planning for your wedding in june goes smoothly and that you have a fabulous day and feel truly celebrated and loved

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Speaker 1: my That was fun, wasn't it? Doing things together is fun.

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Speaker 1: It can be in your family to whether it's seeing movies, if this family does

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Speaker 1: or working and playing together in other ways as other families do

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Speaker 1: when everyone does his regular job and helps out by doing extra work,

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Speaker 1: then things go better for the whole family,

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Speaker 1: don't they?

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Speaker 2: Our next question is indeed a short and sweet tipping question.

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Speaker 2: It begins and ends. Should you tip, if you order ahead and pick up your food to go Tracy because Tracy,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the question, lizzie post. I'm going to pull back the curtain just a little bit and read the show notes that I had here that were so confusing to you. You said to me, I don't know if we're going to agree on this one

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Speaker 2: Bullet one Because What's Bullet 1?

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Speaker 1: So I've got to do all three and then I'll tease out some details. Okay,

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Speaker 1: should you tip? If you order ahead and pick up your food to go my bullets went in this order one. Yes, two, you don't have to and three suggested 10%

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Speaker 1: And I can understand how that would be confusing. Yes, you don't have to we suggest 10

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Speaker 2: percent.

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Speaker 1: But it really is the way the thoughts appear in my mind. I think to myself

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Speaker 1: you don't

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Speaker 1: really have to it's not an obligation. There's no expectation that you tip for pick up or take out service. The way there is for sit down table service even if it's from the same restaurant

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Speaker 1: at the same time. I love that. The first thought in my mind

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Speaker 2: is yes, I'd love

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Speaker 1: To tip a little bit because that's that generous gracious. Um part of me giving part of me that I want to engage if I am going to tip and it's likely I'm gonna tip a little something and it's not gonna be that full 15-20%, usually

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Speaker 1: 20% including tax rounded up. That would be a common practice

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Speaker 2: for me.

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Speaker 1: So, so I really remind myself like that. Yes, while I am feeling inspired to do this, I really don't have to. It's not an expectation. I don't have to go that far. And that leads me to the third thought of well what is a good amount

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Speaker 1: and I think 10% is a nice place to start from and unlike the 20% for sit down service and I'm getting down into the weeds here, I don't think to myself, oh, I'll do it on the absolute full amount on the total and I'll round up a little bit from there, I'm thinking more about something that

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Speaker 1: Gets me to around 10% and it could come in a little more, it could come in a little less and I'm not going to worry too, too much about it. I like to leave a little something and that's a good jumping off point

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Speaker 2: Because it was really funny. I had this moment where I read your 10% and my response to those bullet points audience just so you know, was question mark, question mark, question mark in our book, we, we suggest a couple of dollars for take out orders and we say it's discretionary.

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Speaker 2: And the funny thing is, is that I was thinking about my take out order last night where I left a couple of dollars on the, on the tip line

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Speaker 2: And I realized just sitting here this morning that my couple of dollars was actually 10% of the total including tax. And so I was laughing at myself where 10% I think because I'm used to thinking of that 15 and 20 as bigger numbers. Um

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Speaker 2: just just am I, I think of that sit down, you know, being treated to service like that for a restaurant as like yeah bigger in my mind, it's just like so affirming like yeah bigger tip, bigger tip, more money, bigger tip and often, you know, I'm dining out with other people and so it's a bigger bill and so I'm thinking more money

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Speaker 2: And when I saw the 10%, I was like that's huge and then when I actually did the math, I was like that's not so huge, that's about what I actually average leave.

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Speaker 2: We just don't typically say it that way. And so it was, it was kind of good for me to have that now. The association that actually 10% is a pretty good number to run with but it is, it is discretionary tipping. I because think that

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Speaker 2: I know very few people who I I know they exist, it's true,

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Speaker 1: they do exist

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Speaker 2: but I know I know very few people myself who wouldn't leave at the very least a dollar on a take out order, you know and and some it's just there because it's just how they do it, it's like dollar for take out dollars for take out.

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Speaker 2: But I know a lot of people, especially during this pandemic

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Speaker 2: given what it's done to to our restaurant industry and our communities, people are trying to leave more now and um I think it's really great if you if you have the extra cash if it really can be something extra on top two to go that extra mile right now. So

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Speaker 2: I would, I would think of it as you know like leave, leave a couple of dollars, it's discretionary, but the more you can help, the better that usually is

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Speaker 1: Tracy, thank you so much for the short question which we managed to turn into a little bit longer answer? This particular piece of money is just starting in circulation. What will happen to us?

00:23:23

Speaker 1: What will it be used for? What can money be used for? What is money anyway?

00:23:32

Speaker 1: Okay.

00:23:35

Speaker 1: Our next question is about a frank farewell

00:23:39

Speaker 1: dear lizzie and dan. Hello to you both. I love listening to your podcast and finding more and more ways that I can incorporate C. R. H. Into my daily interactions.

00:23:49

Speaker 1: I have a question for you concerning a very bad first impression.

00:23:53

Speaker 1: I was recently introduced to a new coworker who transferred to our department

00:23:57

Speaker 1: when I met him at an after hours get together. It was not a good first interaction

00:24:02

Speaker 1: During our 15 minute or so conversation. He made several jokes about my last name and it's spelling said a few culturally insensitive things about my heritage and also just made rude remarks that weren't appropriate.

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Speaker 1: I tried to politely steer the conversation elsewhere after each of these remarks, since it was my first conversation with him,

00:24:22

Speaker 1: but he kept sticking his foot in his mouth over and over again.

00:24:26

Speaker 1: At the end of the conversation, I said it was nice to meet you as a standard ending after first meeting someone,

00:24:32

Speaker 1: but lizzie and dan, I must tell you it was not nice to meet him, nor was it a pleasure.

00:24:38

Speaker 1: I felt like I wasn't being honest with myself to say it was a nice conversation, but I also didn't want to end the conversation by saying anything rude on my end,

00:24:47

Speaker 1: what would you suggest as a way to end a first introduction. That was less than charming.

00:24:52

Speaker 1: All the best Uncharted

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Speaker 2: Uncharted. I'm so sorry that you had this interaction, especially with with someone who's you know, now going to be in your department and on possibly a team with you. It's really, really unfortunate and not okay that this kind of went the way that it did

00:25:09

Speaker 2: just to get directly to your question about what else we could have seen and then I want to explore a bit more about this interaction

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Speaker 2: dan. My first thoughts are things like this is really true, This happens to people, we don't always have a good time meeting someone and we want to exit the conversation or we want to end the conversation or the conversation is ending

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Speaker 2: and we feel

00:25:32

Speaker 2: this politeness moment, this thing of like standard things, we typically get to say at the end of a meeting with someone, but when they're not true, it really feels awkward. Um It's not unlike when we receive a gift that really didn't feel good to get and we're stuck and stymied on how do we how do we

00:25:52

Speaker 2: both complete the politeness of the interaction but be real about what just went on here, that wasn't a pleasant gift, you know, this wasn't a pleasant interaction

00:26:01

Speaker 2: and I think that that sometimes, especially with the with the work, I think you might have an opportunity to say some other things and I might wait for that kind of like pause in the conversation that happens where you can feel like you could naturally end it

00:26:16

Speaker 2: and say, well I will be seeing you around the office and you know, I'm gonna go get myself another drink or something like that. Now I know

00:26:24

Speaker 2: that the I'm gonna go get myself another drink or I'm going to go to the buffet or I'm going to go to the restroom. Maybe not in this particular case, but usually are things that we say if you can avoid doing them as excuses for leaving its best because the other person might follow you like, oh I'll come get a drink to, oh, you know what, I have to use the restroom as well, oh, that buffet does look good, I want to get it before they put it away, you know?

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Speaker 2: Um But I do think in this particular case,

00:26:49

Speaker 2: you know that that looking for that breaking conversation where you can then just simply excuse yourself. And it's really hard, right? It's like it reminds me of that friends episode where Chandler can't help but say I'll call you when he's talking and like kind of saying goodbye to women that he doesn't want to date again,

00:27:10

Speaker 2: he can't help but say I'll call you and I think sometimes we can't help but say, well it was nice chatting with you or or something like that. But I think the fact that this person was a new person in your department, not technically a new employee, you could say something like, well, you know,

00:27:27

Speaker 2: I wish you good luck at the job and I'll be seeing you around the office and then just leave.

00:27:31

Speaker 2: But I think, I think something like that, if you didn't want to go that I'm gonna go get another drink or go talk to that person or something like that, ending conversations that parties can be awkward under good circumstances. Um dan, I was hoping you could speak to some of the bad circumstances that one charmed, wound up in in here and and and the times to kind of tackle them and the times where you might not

00:27:53

Speaker 2: sort of the feeling like you want to tackle these things.

00:27:56

Speaker 1: Absolutely. And I definitely want to add my sympathies as well, this is such a awkward and difficult situation. And I also want a second lizzie sentiment that I really think it's not okay.

00:28:08

Speaker 1: And I think it's worse than just rude because it's happening in a semi professional context, that this is a social event, but it's a work related social event and this is a coworker and that means that this relationship has a structure around it that

00:28:25

Speaker 1: is important for everybody to Noor and it's

00:28:30

Speaker 1: it's really nice lizzie post to start with some interpersonal options because that's the way a lot of people I think prefer to handle things like this. I really appreciate uncharged

00:28:41

Speaker 1: generosity of spirit saying,

00:28:44

Speaker 1: I think uncharted, it describes it as sticking his foot in his mouth as if it's a mistake, an error that's embarrassing for them as well and that they even have some awareness of that or are unaware of it for all of those reasons. I think that it's good to have options on your

00:29:03

Speaker 1: plate that are deescalating options that just try to

00:29:06

Speaker 1: move through that particular circumstance with as much integrity as possible and with as much consideration and respect for the person you're interacting with as possible. Even if you're not feeling that from them.

00:29:18

Speaker 1: What I did want to say was that I also think something like this is serious enough that I would also want to take a couple other steps and I would want to document what was happening. I would want to record it quite specifically

00:29:33

Speaker 1: so that I have queues for my own memory about exactly what happened, the date, the time, the place, those sorts of things.

00:29:40

Speaker 1: If there was

00:29:41

Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't mean like record it with your cell phone when it starts happening. No, no, okay. Just double checking

00:29:47

Speaker 1: some notes for yourself um talking to a friend about it. If there was a witness, may be making a note about anybody else that might have heard the conversation

00:29:57

Speaker 1: and

00:29:58

Speaker 1: it's not that you're building a case against someone, but information like that can be really important to have if it is necessary later on. And

00:30:09

Speaker 1: the other thought that I was having was that it can help clarify things in your own mind. Oftentimes when things like this happen, it can be very emotional and it can be a good exercise to return to it

00:30:20

Speaker 1: with as much clarity of thought as possible so that you really locked down for yourself. Factually what happened? Because that again, it can be useful both for you emotionally and

00:30:30

Speaker 1: in circumstances where your accounting for things later on. The other piece of advice that I'd like to offer is to to figure out what you're

00:30:40

Speaker 1: potential recourse is, nobody has to work somewhere where they're made to feel uncomfortable out of place. Where

00:30:47

Speaker 2: frankly this is like a level of bullying too, when you're making fun of someone's like cracking jokes about someone's last name. Exactly.

00:30:54

Speaker 1: It's definitely outside of

00:30:57

Speaker 1: all acceptable standards for how people treat each other in the workplace. And you could go the route of saying this was a first encounter and I'm going to try to understand that this person

00:31:07

Speaker 1: might not have been at their best and by the time we get to the office and we are in a more established

00:31:13

Speaker 1: situation, this kind of behavior won't happen again and I'll cut them a break,

00:31:18

Speaker 1: but that's, it's not up to you to have to approach it that way. Either you also have a generous approach to talk to a supervisor or a trusted coworker about

00:31:29

Speaker 1: what is the potential recourse that you could take if this behavior continues and you want to put a stop to it.

00:31:35

Speaker 1: And I would also say that your employer, whoever it is that that you both work for.

00:31:42

Speaker 1: My guess is that they want to know if this kind of thing is happening so that they can address it and put an end to it. It's not up to you to exercise discipline or be this other person's supervisor.

00:31:52

Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

00:31:54

Speaker 1: It is something that that person, supervisor, the person who's responsible for them.

00:31:59

Speaker 1: If I were that person I'd want to know because I'd want to be able to address it. It would be really important to me that I was responsible for had this kind of behavior happening within it. Because it's

00:32:11

Speaker 1: it's not good. It's not good for the work that's being done. And it's potentially a real problem for a business if it continues and it's not addressed.

00:32:19

Speaker 1: And that's a little bit why I wanted to say

00:32:21

Speaker 1: keep a record because

00:32:24

Speaker 1: both the record of things that happen and the record of the people that you talk to about it.

00:32:29

Speaker 1: There are things that can be done and it's your job. It's your profession and it's important that, that you feel safe and comfortable in that place.

00:32:37

Speaker 2: I think too, that especially because this happened outside of work. I think if I'm reading it right on charmed, I hope I have this right. It's like a work function. But after hours and I don't, I don't know if that means it was actually planned by work or if it was just a bunch of coworkers, you know, went out for beers after after work to welcome the new guy, you know,

00:33:00

Speaker 1: and that could be a very important distinction.

00:33:02

Speaker 2: It could be a very important distinction and dan tell me if I'm wrong. But my instinct is also to give some agency and empowerment to the idea of correcting things in the moment or letting people know when a joke isn't funny.

00:33:16

Speaker 2: Um, and if someone made fun of my name for me, that would be a record scratch moment where I would probably, if I was feeling like tackling it, if I wasn't feeling spent from, from a lot of

00:33:29

Speaker 1: microaggressions or something like

00:33:31

Speaker 2: that happening throughout the day, I might be more in a position to say, you know, I'm sorry, are you making fun of my name right now?

00:33:38

Speaker 2: That does not feel good and exit the conversation right there and just be very clear with someone that, that's not going to be tolerated with you at all. And I think that even though you want to be welcoming to someone who's new on the team, you want to maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. They're just having a moment, Maybe they've had one drink too many

00:33:58

Speaker 2: and I think those are all very gracious things to do. I also think it can be very helpful and important to simply tell someone, you know what you're saying to my face about me right now is not okay.

00:34:10

Speaker 2: And I think that it's you know, you can even say something like I really want to have a good relationship with you at work and to do that. I should let you know. I really do not appreciate jokes about my name or my heritage and that's something that I would appreciate you not doing at work. It's it's it's not gonna fly with me.

00:34:27

Speaker 2: And I think that it's it's important to feel like if you have it in you, if you feel like it's appropriate. That that that's a step. You can take

00:34:36

Speaker 1: lizzie when I heard you do that sample script. I really liked the clarity of the boundary setting and also the allowance that it matters to me that we have a good relationship so you should know that that is not okay with me. That makes me uncomfortable. And I think pairing those two things makes it much easier to hear.

00:34:56

Speaker 1: And maybe here as okay, this is my new co worker.

00:35:01

Speaker 1: I am not going to go in that direction with them. They've let me know very clearly. I just got that wrong. They told me that they care enough about this relationship that they want me to know that and this is my job to. So I'm probably gonna do my best to honor it. I would hope both my host double crossed

00:35:18

Speaker 2: and man wouldn't. It's such a litmus test right there for which direction someone's gonna go. You know, like whether they're gonna pay attention and be respectful

00:35:28

Speaker 2: or whether, you know, and this is a moment where they learned something or are they going to be the person who then uses that to be defensive and, and and like, you know, I don't want to say like at war with you, but yeah, like difficult with you because of it. Defensive is the best way I can think of it and

00:35:46

Speaker 2: I don't like the idea of setting things up for that. But I also, I like less the idea of someone thinking it's okay to make fun of your name and your heritage on their first meeting with you

00:35:57

Speaker 1: Uncharted. This truly is a difficult question and we wish you the best is your negotiating this relationship with your new coworker and appreciate that you can turn to us for support as well as to consideration respect and honesty.

00:36:13

Speaker 1: When someone is making every effort to hurt our feelings. Very few of us can take it.

00:36:18

Speaker 1: Even if you are never the teaser or never the one being

00:36:22

Speaker 1: you will meet this problem.

00:36:24

Speaker 1: What would you do

00:36:26

Speaker 1: over

00:36:29

Speaker 1: our

00:36:30

Speaker 2: next question is titled sympathetic sample script. Hi dan and lizzie. I discovered your amazing podcast a couple of years ago and I am a huge fan of the show. I look forward to the new drop every monday and I'm loving making my way through the archives of old episodes little by little on every other day of the week

00:36:49

Speaker 2: while I keep a little running list of questions for dan and lizzie on my phone. As curious etiquette conundrums pop up in life. I recently had an experience that truly stumped me and I realized the time had come to actually write in

00:37:02

Speaker 2: on the monday after thanksgiving while I was texting with a friend, she shared that when she and her partner had returned home that day from their holiday trip out of town visiting family,

00:37:12

Speaker 2: they discovered their house had been broken into while they were away. I felt and still feel awful for them, luckily all their valuables as well as their two dogs were safely in their possession. When it happened furthermore upon inventory, they were relieved to determine that nothing was taken nor too badly damaged in the break in.

00:37:32

Speaker 2: Still, the whole ordeal was really unsettling for them

00:37:36

Speaker 2: from the moment she told me I had this strong urge to do something or bring her something. But I've been at a loss. The thing is this friend is relatively new. If the same thing had happened to an old friend that I knew super well, I wouldn't have skipped a beat.

00:37:52

Speaker 2: I would have shown up on her doorstep immediately with wine take out and a big hug ready to spend the evening helping her clean up and sort through next steps as someone who has experienced a lot of generic and unhelpful. I'm here. If you need anything at all comments during difficult times, I know how impactful specificity and action can be when someone is feeling low, but without knowing this friend that well, I was stuck,

00:38:17

Speaker 2: I didn't want to intrude overstep or be a burden underfoot adding to the stress she and her partner were already feeling.

00:38:23

Speaker 2: So the question is, what do you think would have been a kind and appropriate gesture to make in this situation? Maybe flowers a nice card or is there perhaps just a simple, heartfelt sample script for how you'd respond to receiving this kind of news in the future, Your biggest fan, Aaron smiley face.

00:38:46

Speaker 1: I am so sorry this happened to your new friends. And I'm also just thinking how nice you sound that this is your natural impulse and this is your reaction or response. And

00:38:57

Speaker 1: the first thought I have is that I would go with my impulses. The next time this happened when I think about the specific things that you can offer. I think so many of them are very immediate things like you could offer to come help out, help clean up, help spend time with them if they don't feel comfortable being alone there or something like that, that

00:39:17

Speaker 1: some of the two DUIs probably happened pretty quickly and maybe our have I've already happened at this point.

00:39:26

Speaker 1: I also

00:39:27

Speaker 1: like the way that you're aware that you have your own impulses. But this is a new friendship and you're taking care with the boundaries because there is

00:39:36

Speaker 1: definitely something to wanting to help during hard times that can sometimes cross over into inserting yourself in someone's life at a time that can be very personal or difficult. And

00:39:47

Speaker 1: I think even just showing the awareness that, you know, something could overstep means it's likely you're not going to do that, that you've got your

00:39:56

Speaker 1: antenna out, that you're sensing and feeling for, what are the appropriate lines in this friendship and what levels of closeness has been established in terms of

00:40:05

Speaker 1: how you respect privacy and people's space.

00:40:09

Speaker 1: Having said that, I also love this idea of having your antenna out because I think that you watch your friend for cues. Is it something that she continues to talk about or that she brings up again?

00:40:18

Speaker 1: And if that is the case that gives you the opportunities to make some of those offers, is there anything I can do, I'd be willing to keep

00:40:28

Speaker 1: but I swing by your place when you're not there and and the details of what those specific things are

00:40:35

Speaker 1: going to be related to the way that she's talking about it, but that you take your cues from your new friend in this situation and if it continues to be a thing for her, then it's something that you know, you can lean into and offer your support in in whatever ways

00:40:50

Speaker 1: work at the time that that comes up

00:40:53

Speaker 2: because I feel like you're going to say I do, of course I, you know me, I've always got a thought, I feel like there are some things that you you can always do. Like you mentioned Aaron sending flowers, dropping off a note. I think those those are perfectly appropriate. No matter what.

00:41:11

Speaker 2: It's funny, I was thinking about the whole take out and the bottle of wine thing, we know not everybody drinks alcohol. So you kind of want to make sure that the person would be willing to accept a bottle of wine. I love the bottle of wine though, as that like, chill out. Like, you know, de stress a little bit factor and you might achieve that with other things, you know, like, I don't know, lavender bath salts, like, you know, something, you know, something like that. But I'm interested in sort of the difference between

00:41:38

Speaker 2: what feels like an okay drop off and what feels like it might invite a little more like if I like I would be so and I have had the cookies show up on the doorstep for the little treaty show up on the doorstep and that's always such a lovely thing and and you don't reject it when it shows up because it just shows up. You know and sometimes you don't even answer the door. It's like

00:41:58

Speaker 2: you step out later in the day and there's that plate of cookies sitting on your doorstep

00:42:02

Speaker 2: but offering like to bring over take out would often then require them to tell you what kind of take out they would like or that would work for them or you know, allergy things like that I feel like and so not that the cookie thing can also bring up allergies, chocolate nuts, that kind of stuff. Um Gluten hello. But I feel like some of the at this stage of a friendship like a new friendship

00:42:25

Speaker 2: where you want to both be there but you don't know how to be to close that some of those sort of less involved offers can be a lot easier. Like the offer to help clean up is wonderful and I actually think it is a really good one to make, don't be surprised if that one gets turned down

00:42:44

Speaker 2: but the offer of take out, I could see being like just it creates a little bit more of a conversation that then has to happen about the take out and when it would arrive and that kind of thing. And I almost think it's easier to do some of these things in this particular friendship where you don't quite know how much they're willing to accept from you

00:43:04

Speaker 2: that are just the little treats or the little littler acknowledgements

00:43:08

Speaker 2: and that note that you leave with a little or acknowledgement could be something that says something more specific. Like I would be happy to watch your house in the future. I would be happy to come and help you clean up if there's still cleanup to be done. I don't know how bad the damage was, whether it's just one broken window or people really went in and made a mess of things

00:43:28

Speaker 2: and so it, you know, you might, you might vary that based on it, but you could put that offer for a specific. I'd love to come help you clean or

00:43:36

Speaker 2: maybe if the cleanup wasn't heavy, you could be like, I'd love to go for a walk if you'd like to. I know it can just be so stressful when something like this has happened. I think those kinds of things would be nice in the note. But again, the specific offers, you know, we're a big fan of them to

00:43:51

Speaker 1: lizzie. I like the sample script of connecting the walk to. I know

00:43:55

Speaker 1: something like this can be so stressful

00:43:58

Speaker 1: because it's, it it connects something that you might be willing to do otherwise with an awareness of this thing that happened and in some ways gives them some

00:44:08

Speaker 1: option about how they're feeling about it. Oh, that'd be so nice. I I think about it every time I come home or

00:44:15

Speaker 1: that would be great to take a walk, no mention about feeling stressful tells you that they're they're moving beyond it probably, or at least in this relationship? They are.

00:44:25

Speaker 1: Is there any risk? Do you think getting to specific later on bringing up something bad that's happened?

00:44:32

Speaker 1: So if the plate of cookies arrives and they've now moved on from this particular event, say, and and then there's a something that shows up that says, I've been thinking about you ever since x, Y or Z. Wanted to do a little something for you or wanted to drop you off some cookies. Is there any downside to that?

00:44:51

Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, I think it will be seen as a goodwill gesture, no matter what, I think it would be a rare moment, kind of like when we say you run into someone like six months after somebody passed and it's the first time you're getting a chance to actually see them and maybe you haven't even written a sympathy note. And so you you you say, oh my gosh, I was so sorry to hear about your father.

00:45:12

Speaker 2: And what I should say is I will never forget that question where the woman who said, you know, I was so sorry to hear about your family member who was deceased and the person just flipped out on her. You know, this was I was finally not thinking about it and you brought it. You know,

00:45:28

Speaker 2: it's it's a rare chance that that's what you're going to meet is the person who's really upset that you've brought it up again

00:45:35

Speaker 2: and it it is, it is the tiniest risk that we take, but it is there, but I think that if we start living for that tiny risk um that we start losing a lot of the community support and connection that can happen or even just a friend wishing you well, which is what's going on here.

00:45:53

Speaker 2: And so I think I'd, I'd put me in the camp of, I'm still willing to advocate, you know, even if it's two weeks later, go for it, I think if you're starting to push like this happened like 2.5 months ago or three, you know, like something like that, two months ago, it's probably a little like they've, they've moved on at this point, the likelihood is

00:46:12

Speaker 2: and and not always, you know, ptsd trauma after after things that are scary that happened is very real and it can sometimes be surprising how long the effects last.

00:46:21

Speaker 2: But I think the type of situation that Aaron is describing to me at least sounds a little a little more closer, even though I know we're talking about what happened at thanksgiving, we're talking about a month later. Now I do think that in the future I would try to do something a little closer to two when it happened, but but probably within within a couple of weeks to a month is a good time frame. I would think of

00:46:43

Speaker 2: beyond that. I might just check in with something. Hey, I know last month was really tough for you. Um how are you guys doing since our things feeling okay? You know, that kind of thing might be welcome.

00:46:53

Speaker 1: That's really helpful for me to hear,

00:46:55

Speaker 1: Aaron, I hope that is also really helpful for you to hear. Thank you so much for the question and we are sure that you will be an excellent support for your friend at this time.

00:47:06

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind, that's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette. Just remember, use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:47:44

Speaker 2: If you are enjoying awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads, free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing that you truly help keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.

00:48:09

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover today. We have feedback from David on two previous episodes,

00:48:19

Speaker 2: Greetings, awesome etiquette team, happy upcoming holiday season to you and thanks for your wonderful podcast. A couple of recent segments inspired me to send along some feedback. 1st

00:48:30

Speaker 2: going back a few weeks you gave great advice on how to be a good gift giver. One more thing to consider is the recipients general station in life. For example, my wife and I are both close to traditional retirement age and have had a fortunate life.

00:48:46

Speaker 2: We don't really need things but love handmade gifts, edible gifts, drinkable gifts and donations to organizations that feed people or help animals.

00:48:55

Speaker 2: Generally, most folks I know of our age feel the same

00:48:59

Speaker 2: at a younger age things were great, but now please help us downsize

00:49:04

Speaker 2: next to the writer who heard a combination encouraging slash possibly demeaning comment when out on her run.

00:49:12

Speaker 2: I also don't have a traditional runner's body plus I'm on the older side, people do at times make comments, try to high five or smile broadly as I run. I know older, bigger people who run to. However, as I mentioned to a friend who questioned the sincerity of facebook birthday wishes.

00:49:32

Speaker 2: I'm delighted when anyone says something kind to me. It sure beats the alternative.

00:49:37

Speaker 2: I understand the sensitivity of hidden meanings. But I recommend taking a nice, even if inappropriate comment as just that, a positive thought.

00:49:46

Speaker 2: I hope you all plus the wonderful listening community have the best possible remainder of 2021 and a healthy happy new year. Best David adopt. Please don't shop

00:49:58

Speaker 1: David, thank you so much for this feedback. It's a feedback that almost feels saluted to me and that it put a smile on my face. I

00:50:05

Speaker 1: I just love your acceptance of positivity in the world is so encouraging. Thank you for this feedback

00:50:14

Speaker 2: and thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 K. I N. D. That's 8028585463.

00:50:34

Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to talk about thank you notes.

00:50:43

Speaker 2: It's like an I feel like this is our annual thank you note show as the week

00:50:48

Speaker 1: between christmas and new years.

00:50:50

Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I also, I was sitting here thinking like,

00:50:54

Speaker 2: oh man, maybe maybe next year we should switch things up and do like toasts or something. Very New Year's. You know what I mean?

00:51:02

Speaker 1: We'll have to squeeze that in next year.

00:51:04

Speaker 2: Absolutely. But this year we are all about the thank you notes and are very, very, very first piece of advice is in big bold capital letters with a million exclamation points after it. And it is

00:51:19

Speaker 2: send them, send thank you notes, Right them, send them get them out. Yes, yes, yes. To thank you notes.

00:51:27

Speaker 1: Our great great grandmother got questions about people that don't write. Thank you. Notes are

00:51:32

Speaker 1: great grandfather helping her. Probably got questions about grandkids that don't write thank you notes. I know our grandmother got questions about grandkids that don't write thank you notes. I know our parents got those same questions and I know that we will continue to get them. And hopefully when we hand this tradition off to generation six, they will continue to get them.

00:51:49

Speaker 1: This is an eternally important question. It's generationally significant.

00:51:54

Speaker 1: The act of thanking is so, so, so important in relationships. And the tradition of sending thank you notes, particularly for gifts that you haven't had a chance to thank people for in person is very firmly established and there are great rewards to be reaped by participating in it. People will appreciate it.

00:52:12

Speaker 2: Absolutely. In fact, I think in all of our years we've only had one person right in saying, man, I wish people wouldn't send me thank you notes. So I'd say it's pretty, pretty good odds that it's going to be well received.

00:52:24

Speaker 2: It is true that if you've opened a gift in front of others and thank them well for it, you likely don't need to send a thank you note. However, there are some times when it's good to do so anyway and number one on that list for me is if you feel like it,

00:52:38

Speaker 2: if you really loved this gift and have been so grateful for it that you just, you, you want to say thank you again.

00:52:45

Speaker 2: Um I think you know, breaking out that pen in your stationary or a really cute Emily post garden collection card from the east to Salazar website would be really great. Great, great reason to, to put pen to paper, write your gratitude, express your gratitude and get it in the mail to the person that you are so appreciating in this moment.

00:53:06

Speaker 2: I think another time dan, when it's actually really worth considering writing a thank you note is when you know the other person appreciates it or even expects it. Um I know that

00:53:19

Speaker 1: yeah,

00:53:20

Speaker 2: we got to open our gifts from our grandparents from Madame papi in front of them because we did that big

00:53:27

Speaker 2: post family christmas together growing up and it was really, really wonderful. But I know I can remember

00:53:34

Speaker 2: because I believe my spelling mistakes were pointed out writing thank you notes to mud and poppy for those gifts and still saying thank you to them even though we had thank them in person and in that case I think it was probably more about my mom taking the opportunity to encourage us to do it and get the practice in. But I know that our grandparents appreciated it especially because they wrote books about them being a good idea.

00:53:59

Speaker 2: But the other time where I think that even if you've kind of thanked someone in person, sometimes your thank you in person, maybe you were really tired. Maybe there was something distracting going on at the family gathering when you were opening the gift and you don't feel like you thank someone really well for their gift

00:54:17

Speaker 2: that the in person, you know, and, and sometimes this isn't because anything is bad, it's just a big distracting party is going on and you didn't feel like you really got to connect and say thank you,

00:54:27

Speaker 2: grabbing that pen and paper and, and writing it down and sending it out to the person is a fabulous, fabulous thing to

00:54:33

Speaker 1: do. I have to have an expansion on that thought too. There's another situation that I think comes up that is just awesome when it does, which is someone gives you a gift

00:54:46

Speaker 1: and you say, oh, thank you so much, I really appreciate this, so thoughtful, X, y, z, whatever it is,

00:54:51

Speaker 1: you take the gift home, you start using it and you realize just how awesome it is or

00:54:58

Speaker 1: there's something about inequality that surprises you

00:55:02

Speaker 1: essentially, you end up with something to thank for that, you didn't thank for in person or um you're more thankful or more grateful as time goes on and I love the idea of adding on to that in person. Thanks by following up with a thank you that includes all those other great details about a gift that grows on you over time for some reason

00:55:24

Speaker 1: totally.

00:55:25

Speaker 1: Okay, so

00:55:26

Speaker 1: these are the situations that you would send the note. What does the note look like? Let's talk sample scripts.

00:55:32

Speaker 2: Okay. We, we have put to bed our debate between the two of us as whether it's a three sentence or five sentence note and technically it could be even longer than 3-5 sentences if you want, but we think

00:55:45

Speaker 2: three is probably the minimum unless, unless it's just a one sentence. Thank you for the sweater.

00:55:50

Speaker 2: Um, but we think you could do a little better than that if you're taking the time to write the note. But our sample note this year, you know, you would address the person you're writing to. I think it's great to give some kind of a starter sentence that's a connection to them. You can start right away with the thank you. Either would be okay, but then go into the thank you. Really thank the person for the item. Maybe say something specific about it or how you intend to use it

00:56:16

Speaker 2: and then move on to wishing them well or wishing that you hope to see them soon in the new year, that sort of thing if you want, you can add another thank you before you sign off or sometimes your sign off because this is a thank you note and not an email where you're asking someone to do something can include another thanks. Like you might sign it many thanks again

00:56:38

Speaker 2: or you might put that as the last sentence and then then right like a love lizzie or something like that. But our, our sample note, Do you want to read our sample note for this year, dan

00:56:47

Speaker 1: Um

00:56:48

Speaker 1: Dear Aunt Alice. It was so great to see you on zoom at christmas this year. I can't wait until I see you again in person. Thank you so much for my new sweater. The color is spectacular and I really wanted something new to spice up my wardrobe.

00:57:03

Speaker 1: I hope you and Uncle Carl are enjoying winter up north and can get lots of skiing in this year. Thank you again, Much love Alyssa.

00:57:12

Speaker 2: Okay, now, with all that said dan, what is the final most important part about the Thank you

00:57:19

Speaker 1: note drumroll. Please

00:57:21

Speaker 2: send it the most important

00:57:23

Speaker 1: part about the thing. You notice that it reaches the person that it's not an idea in your mind. It's not a half written note sitting on your desk. It's not even tucked in an envelope. Well

00:57:31

Speaker 1: you're looking for an address and then gets lost.

00:57:34

Speaker 1: It gets a stamp on it. It goes in the mail and it arrives the person who is intended to receive it gets it. And that's the moment where the magic really happens, where your inspiration becomes someone else's good day.

00:57:48

Speaker 2: I love it. I just love it. It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy and for those of you who are sitting there saying,

00:57:54

Speaker 2: but my friends and I love doing text messages are we love doing videos. It is perfectly okay

00:58:01

Speaker 2: if you've established with someone a digital means of communication for your thank you is to have that be it. I love nothing more than when my best friend who lives in Louisiana and is a very busy ICU nurse at a veterans hospital down there

00:58:16

Speaker 2: is able to take the time and I do not at all begrudge her when she doesn't.

00:58:21

Speaker 2: But I love getting the pictures of my god daughters with their um with their gifts or or my Godson, I think I I call them all my God Children, They are not officially my God Children. But whenever I get to see the picture of them with the gift or even just a picture of them from the day,

00:58:40

Speaker 2: um it it just warms my heart and feels so great and I would,

00:58:43

Speaker 2: unless she's trying to teach that moment of thank you notes to them. Um I have no problem not receiving the notes. So if you have something like that set up with someone that's great. But if you don't or you know, they really appreciate the note or you just feel so inspired that you want to write the note,

00:58:58

Speaker 2: the thank you notes. Still this reign supreme as a wonderful gesture. So as this holiday

00:59:05

Speaker 1: season winds down comes to a close, don't forget to draw it out. Attenuate it just a little bit. Let's see if we can continue to keep those good feelings alive into the new year.

00:59:17

Speaker 1: Now, what are you going to say? Well I want to say thank you

00:59:22

Speaker 1: and I want to say it in a way that will please that Helen and I'll go off. What would you say if you were there in person? This is going to be easy. I'll have a letter done in no time and I was in the letter to jimmy and Allen.

00:59:39

Speaker 2: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms. Today we have a lovely salute from Sophia. Hello,

00:59:52

Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of the podcast and wanted to contribute a salute.

00:59:56

Speaker 1: I recently stopped at a mobile Covid testing van on a chilly day on the Upper west side of Manhattan. The man ahead of me gave his information to the woman checking people in and then asked her if she would like a cup of coffee to keep her warm.

01:00:09

Speaker 1: I fully expected her to say no, I'm fine thank you though. Instead, however, she accepted his offer and without a second thought he went around the corner to buy her said cup of coffee.

01:00:21

Speaker 1: It's easy to feel that we're being polite and turning down offers of service or kindness unless we be a burden.

01:00:27

Speaker 1: Observing this interaction was an excellent reminder that true etiquette is not performative. It is not done to show off and say look how polite I am, but rather out of genuine care for others. So two thumbs up to the man who generously offered a cup of coffee on a cold day and to the woman who graciously accepted it and together reminded me what etiquette is all about

01:00:49

Speaker 1: sincerely. Sophia

01:00:51

Speaker 2: Sophia, I want to thank you for sending in this salute and I want to thank the the gentleman who made the offer and the lovely lady who accepted and said yes for giving us this wonderful example. I think this is Dan, the most perfect salute to send us into 2022.

01:01:09

Speaker 2: I know it's a year that oh gosh I don't want to get all teared up. But I know it's a year that dan and I are really looking forward to because it's the 1/100 anniversary of Emily post etiquette. And so we cannot wait for 2020 to to get started and to be in this year of celebration

01:01:26

Speaker 2: with our family, with our brand. With all of you, our wonderful audience

01:01:31

Speaker 2: and this idea of just beautiful acts of politeness that are not performative, but they are just simply to connect to make people's day better to be aware of the people around us, how they're experiencing the world and our impact on them is just such the perfect salute to head us into the new year. Sophia,

01:01:50

Speaker 2: thank you so much for your

01:01:52

Speaker 1: salute.

01:01:53

Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. A great big happy new Year to everyone and here's to looking forward to what the next year can bring and to filling it up with kindness.

01:02:02

Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Sophia for this salute.

01:02:06

Speaker 2: Thank you our audience for listening

01:02:10

Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon,

01:02:14

Speaker 2: please connect with us and share this show with whomever you can, in whichever ways you can, we want to spread the word. That awesome etiquette is an awesome podcast.

01:02:25

Speaker 1: You can send us your next question feedback or salute by email to awesome etiquette. Emily Post dot com.

01:02:31

Speaker 1: You can leave us a message or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily post on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute,

01:02:47

Speaker 2: please consider becoming a sustaining member of the podcast by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. Our memberships start at just $1 per month. You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app,

01:03:05

Speaker 2: and please consider leaving us a review. It helps our shows ranking, which helps more people find awesome etiquette. Our

01:03:12

Speaker 1: show is edited by Kris Albertine and a system produced by Brigitte.

01:03:16

Speaker 2: Thanks.

01:03:17

Speaker 1: Thanks.

01:03:31

Speaker 1: Right.