Episode 382 - Wrapping Up
In this episode of Awesome Etiquette
Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on setting New Year’s etiquette goals., avoiding taking on new relationships, a covid tipping conundrum, and thank you notes when the gift is money. For Awesome Etiquette Sustaining members our question is about return address placement. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and a postscript on wrapping up the holiday season.
Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy. That's old fashioned
Speaker 1: watch act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.
Speaker 1: Mhm.
Speaker 1: Mhm
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today's show, we take your questions on setting New Year's etiquette goals avoiding taking on new relationships, a covid tipping conundrum and thank you notes when the gift is money for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is about return address placement on an envelope plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on wrapping up the holiday season. All that's coming up,
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute. I'm lizzie Post, Happy New Year. And this is a particularly happy new year for us because 2022 is the 100th anniversary year of Emily Post's etiquette. So we feel like this is going to be a year of celebration,
Speaker 1: A year of fun. A year of looking back looking forward. I'm, I'm so stoked for 2022 because I can't believe it's already here as opposed I am so there with you and thank you for the quick reminder. 2022 has been sort of a part of the thinking at Emily post since I
Speaker 1: Join the organization full time in 2008. And the fact that we're here is really, it's a little bit unbelievable to me. It's one of those things where
Speaker 1: you've, you've gotten the thing that you've been waiting for and it almost doesn't feel real. I know just the same way. I'm still surprised that we actually have a fully rewritten new Emily post etiquette book ready to come out this year. I am blown away that 2022 is actually here. We're here. We're doing it. We're making it happen
Speaker 1: day by day sunrises. I had a very quiet New Year's. I don't know about you guys, but I like threw my back out yesterday and brought me like an electronic back massager and some Arnica pellets and, and cream, which I couldn't use because I couldn't reach the spots on my back.
Speaker 1: And I was, I was laid up yesterday. I was, I was not doing a whole heck of a lot. I did make it till midnight
Speaker 1: and I even got to the point like, you know, the back definitely got better throughout the day and, and was able to, to kind of, I think I was doing some yoga moves or something like that to like strengthen things out to stretch them out during the countdown. So
Speaker 1: rang the New year in very quietly and didn't even have champagne. You're, you're taking me back when you mentioned Arnica brings me back to my days working with the dance company and when we discovered Arnica gel for the bumps and bruises that come with performance. It was
Speaker 1: revelatory. That was just, well, I, I appreciate your being here with us and I'll tell you it has been a relaxing few days for me also. And I think it's only that period of repose that has enabled me to even approach the idea of the turning of the year with any sort of reasonable management of myself. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: Fanfare and a chance to really settle into that thing that you were talking about about what a big gear it is for us and how much we've been looking forward to it. It's been, it's been nice to to step back from work a little bit and in some ways it's, let me see some of those bigger picture things a little bit more easily, which has also been really nice, which makes it great for our monday morning meeting on
Speaker 1: how the next year is going to go for us. I think it's awesome. I love it. I've always loved that we've been able to take off time sort of between the christmas holiday in the new year and like you said, use that time to kind of reflect and slow down and get some space from work in order to better participate in it
Speaker 1: with kind of gusto starting the year out. That's something I've always been really grateful for.
Speaker 1: But I am, I am really looking forward to this year. I think there's a lot of really, really good and big things ahead for us and for Emily Post and I'm excited to get it going. You and I still have one more day of vacation sunday before that happens.
Speaker 1: So I won't spoil it too too much. But I am, I am like ready. I am so ready. I'm like chomping at the bit to get it to get at this new year. I'm really excited about it. I hope everybody else is too well, I love hearing it and I think that everybody is and I don't just mean the awesome etiquette audience. One thing that I have been noticing as I listen to a lot of my favorite podcast do their end of year wrap ups and reviews and look forward is how many times I've heard from people who I really enjoy and respect
Speaker 1: things like I'm looking forward to a a new year that is filled with kindness or filled with Grace or with people being
Speaker 1: good to each other or making an effort to be good to each other. I, I can feel that as a turn in the air, as a desire, like a wave coming and it makes me really excited for the role that Emily Post gets to play in the world of encouraging that civility in that Grace and that kindness totally, totally. Alright, so do you have any resolutions? Any thoughts? Any goals for the, for the year ahead for yourself personally. I know we've got about a million and one for work at Emily Post on the podcast, but what about for yourself as dan, the individuals soon to be father of three.
Speaker 1: I absolutely do. And oh, I was going to tell you that I wanted to wait and do it as part of an answer to one of our questions because we have a question that kind of dances up to this line and I dropped a spoiler that I didn't, I didn't mean to, I'm so sorry you did. But because you asked in a, in a personal way, I'll give you a more personal answer than the professional one I've been thinking about, which is that I'm really thinking about my family growing by another member and really giving that the full attention that,
Speaker 1: that I want to and it not just being,
Speaker 1: oh, here comes another one, but this is a new individual that's joining our family and that's a really special and exciting thing. And I'm looking forward to really being there for that. That's awesome. That's really awesome. I am really looking forward to shedding the extra poundage I picked up this year throughout all of our editing stints minus
Speaker 1: this is like,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going to become everybody's favorite auntie. I was actually just visiting friends who had a baby and and he's he was born in september so
Speaker 1: that that's another baby. And one of my, one of my other best friends had a baby and one of my other best friends who lives out in California is about to have a baby, so it's like there's like baby fever going on plus the niece and nephew I already have. So I feel like there will be a lot of
Speaker 1: experiences with Children in my future to um but no, the, I I definitely, for for me, I don't feel comfortable in myself right now and so I am really
Speaker 1: looking forward to to movin and Groovin and and getting away from a sedentary life of either being at my computer at work or on my couch watching something. So
Speaker 1: I am thrilled with snowy walks. Oh man, nothing gets me more excited than a snowy walk, especially if there are pine trees. I'm saying this because I just got back from a snowy walk with pine trees, so I'm really feeling really, really good about having been able to get out there.
Speaker 1: Um but as ever, I'm going to say that I am still on a quest to lower down the swearing in my life. We still love hearing all of your substitutes for swearing.
Speaker 1: I believe snickers has been one of the ones that has stuck around the most lately and that I actually hear a lot of people comment on. Um so please continue sending us your thoughts on our resolutions as well as your own resolutions and things that you tend to do to kind of be self reflective and
Speaker 1: and look forward at the new year as an opportunity to make some good changes and and start a new, I love the good intention setting.
Speaker 1: Well lizzie post, we teased a couple of questions, we did, we have some questions waiting for us. Shall we get to them?
Speaker 1: I think we shall. Let's do it, do it if you love being part of the awesome etiquette community and want to help keep awesome etiquette on the air, there are so many great ways to support the show. You can become a sustaining member at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette
Speaker 1: or you might choose to engage with our show sponsors and their special offers and of course please continue to send us your questions feedback and salutes to keep our show flowing with fresh content. Of course you can always help the show by getting friends and family to subscribe and listen. We love new listeners, particularly new subscribers.
Speaker 1: Every download counts all these efforts are raised, that you can help us to bring more awesome etiquette to the world.
Speaker 1: And of course thank you for everything you've already done to support our show,
Speaker 1: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions, You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter, we're at Emily Post on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute. And on facebook. We are awesome etiquette. Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Our first question is actually a great one to kick off the new year because it's titled etiquette for the new year.
Speaker 1: Hi lizzie and dan, thank you so much for your podcast. I've been an avid listener since the very beginning and your advice has seen me through some tricky situations.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to think about my personal goals for 2022 and one of the things I would like to do is up my etiquette game.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of specific things to measure in my progress towards incorporating more consideration, respect and honesty into my life. I'm looking to move from a saying please and thank you or knowing a dinner fork from a solid fork level to the She makes everyone feel at ease level.
Speaker 1: Perhaps sending a certain number of thank you notes or hosting an honest to goodness dinner party. I would love any thoughts either of you have about how to approach this goal sincerely. Another. I e lizzie. I swear I didn't write this one but this is really cute and also love love hearing from an Ie lizzie.
Speaker 1: I was sure that we had to talk about that a little bit right at the start because we've encountered a couple iii lizzie's and you just love telling me how there aren't any and we've now met somewhere where there's lots of us. There are lots of us. What I love telling you is that we are distinctly different from the Y and the eye lizzie's that you meet people and know it man like and not know. It isn't like I can look at you and tell that you're a wire and I you can't do that.
Speaker 1: But it is like a thing you're like, oh, I'm a lizzie with an I E. Oh, I get it auto correct makes your life difficult as well. You know, I think it's it's it's like more of a thing you spelled with a Y or an I am going to do something that I'm used to doing with lizzie's with an I E. And I'm going to take some inspiration from our listener lizzie
Speaker 1: because I think this is such a
Speaker 1: just awesome spirit to approach the New Year with and such an awesome spirit to approach etiquette with. It's so
Speaker 1: it's it's the thought, the feeling, the approach that I wish I could just graft on to everybody who has a question about what etiquette is and how it can function best in their lives, how can I up my etiquette game. I love it. And the idea that I'm good and I like where I'm at and I do things that I think of as as good for other people and I just would love to be even better. I'd love to be at that level where other people are just at ease around me and
Speaker 1: and my whole frame of reference on me being good at this is how good it makes other people around me feel particularly how comfortable they feel. And I just think that lizzie is on such a good, a good track here and I think that we do have some really good etiquette advice within
Speaker 1: the framework that we use at Emily post that can be really helpful and we talk about manners and principles a lot on this show
Speaker 1: the core principles of consideration, respect and honesty, how good they can be,
Speaker 1: to guide you in big picture ways and to figure out what to do when you don't know exactly
Speaker 1: the manor is part of the equation can also be really useful and I think this is one of the perfect examples of that because they give you these concrete behaviors, these very specific things to focus on and they've emerged as expectations and traditions because they work so well. So you really can look to them
Speaker 1: to make small manageable tangible improvements in your behaviors and your actions that then end up communicating these bigger picture concepts. So
Speaker 1: I I love the way she's already picked out a couple. Is it Thank you notes is at a dinner party for me if I'm shooting for that, make other people feel really good. I love the idea of challenging yourself to, to host people to get them over to spend time with them to be present with them.
Speaker 1: You know how much I love thank you Notes, how many thank you know, postscripts did we do pre holidays? And I really love adding to that list. Thinking about the new year. This idea of bringing people in, inviting them into your life in different ways. Lots of different ways to share food company time and to, to make that time special. I think that's a great way to
Speaker 1: get where lizzie is thinking about going.
Speaker 1: It was funny prior to the, the idea of hitting the level of she makes everyone feel at ease. I was like, you could take this so many different ways because you could choose to up your etiquette game by kind of knowing more of the history of where some of these things come from.
Speaker 1: I think that can always be interesting to investigate or I was trying to think of something like
Speaker 1: it might be that you you try to create some really either formal or casual, either direction experiences that you haven't really had a lot of experience with that, that might be another one. But then we get this line of how do I get to that level. She makes everyone feel at ease level. And I was like, that's like that's like big time. It felt like to get big time to me. But I also, in, in my brain it was funny, I love that dan, you turned
Speaker 1: to the framework of both the principles and the manners and at first I was thinking oh that putting people at ease, that's so about those principles, it's just so about those principles
Speaker 1: and then I realized I had a moment just recently where it was actually a manner that helped put someone at ease and kind of like reignited a social connection and it was dropping off for um
Speaker 1: a couple that I really love and we just haven't seen each other in a really long time, like it was it was pushing on a year, you know, I think the last time we saw each other was in the winter of last year and I just, I missed them but we we weren't really able to connect and we weren't talking either, it wasn't like we were you know just not getting together
Speaker 1: and I dropped off a card and this particular type of marinade that we both love and we've made together and that sort of thing
Speaker 1: to them and they really loved it and she mentioned to me when we did get together after that she mentioned how much that little act encouraged her to reach out reconnect, get in the zone, it made her feel at ease enough to feel like she could pick up the phone to call and I love dan how you were connecting those little manners as things to explore as well for getting you there with people and it just it i it was kind of one of those for me like ah ha moments like yes and it could be really fun to go through things like either old or new etiquette books and pick out a couple of manners that you're really going to try to absorb
Speaker 1: um and whether they're hardcore manners, you know like you said knowing the dinner fork from the salad fork
Speaker 1: or whether there are things like I am going to choose to act in a certain way, I'm gonna pick 10 people and really remember their birthdays and send them a birthday card this year. Or I am going to write like pick four friends or maybe it's two friends, maybe it's one friend that I'm going to actively be the reacher outer too, you know and create that safe inviting environment to encourage someone to get together. Even if they end up saying no we are living in strange times, people are having a hard time. I mean I don't know about you dan but I'm hearing from a lot of people that socially even when people are creating at ease type situations, people are still hesitant to get together, hesitant to go out, hesitant to reach out and so
Speaker 1: I don't want that to discourage anyone from trying,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But I do think it could mean that the likelihood that you're going to get the visit or the connection on the other end is is it might be a little bit more of a hurdle to get to. I love the stand, I could go on and on about the idea of of picking a few particular manners and I noticed in our show notes you haven't said it yet, but you said, do you want to tell people what you wrote in our show notes for the last bullet?
Speaker 1: Well, we we kind of teased right up to it, which is that for me, I'm focusing on that communication and and specifically that thing that you just described of being the outreach, being the person. So instead of the thought being in my mind, oh, I want to have better relationships with long term friends or long distance friends.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to focus on a behavior that will facilitate that. So,
Speaker 1: and you chose remembering birthdays that wasn't on my list, but it's so perfect. Um but I have been thinking about a commitment just once a week. Have a have you reached out to someone you haven't seen in a year goal
Speaker 1: and then you start to cue those up for yourself, but you do it in a way that you're actively reaching out and initiating those contacts and and being consistent with the action. So it's not necessarily the the result that you're shooting for as a goal in the relationship, but
Speaker 1: a behavior in yourself. That's something that you can really add to what you do that. My, my instinct is my intuition is that it's going to affect the feel of those long term relationships if I'm able to do it.
Speaker 1: I see I when I had read your note in the, in the thing, you had written correspondence, not Peggy levels, but better than right now and I loved it because for me it registered. Our aunt Peggy is actually really great with written correspondence. Like
Speaker 1: when we hear correspondence, I think of written letters and things, even though technically there's all kinds of different correspondence we do.
Speaker 1: But I like that you're using that image of what you think of as a really a good etiquette move that she makes on the regular, um, to apply to your own life. And it's not like you're gonna be writing letters to G, but you're going to pick up the phone and call them a little more or something like that. And I really love that kind of inspiration. So maybe people can think of kind of dedicated people in their lives who they really appreciate the little things, the manners that these people
Speaker 1: exhibit and do maybe think about some of those folks that, that you've heard salutes about on the show and use that for some inspiration for leveling up to make everyone feel at ease. I just, I love the idea of these etiquette levels you can hit like I'm good at the same please and thank you, I'm good at the dinner forks but I wanna put people at ease like I love this,
Speaker 1: there's always room for improvement and I just couldn't appreciate this question from lizzie anymore. I started off by saying I take inspiration from it and
Speaker 1: I absolutely do, I can tell you do as well and I hope that all of our listeners are able to take some inspiration from this approach as well,
Speaker 1: listener lizzie with an I. E. Thank you so much for writing in and we hope our answer helps let us know how it goes everywhere you go, your manners are with you
Speaker 1: and they leave their mark,
Speaker 1: They help you feel sure of yourself too. And they make an impression on people on everyone you meet.
Speaker 1: We could listen in on jean's thought's for example,
Speaker 1: but well you take it from here,
Speaker 1: mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Our Second Question of 2022 is called no new relationships
Speaker 1: Dear dan and lizzie. Hello
Speaker 1: and welcome to my email. I don't know if I did that right. It's meant to be said in the tone of the show. Let me try that again. Hello and welcome to my email awesome etiquette has kept my husband and I company on many a road trip
Speaker 1: and we so appreciate the consistency with which you put it out.
Speaker 1: I have a question about a potential friend set up.
Speaker 1: We recently moved across country from new york to Portland.
Speaker 1: A new york friend, acquaintance of ours messaged me and asked where we were now living. He said he had friends that used to live in new york and moved to our new city and that they may be interested in new friends. Especially since we all have young Children.
Speaker 1: To be honest, we already have a few sets of new friends here in Portland that we have not gotten to connect with yet due to the hectic nature of moving.
Speaker 1: It's hard enough balancing unpacking, taking care of a toddler, figuring out the logistics of a new city and trying to connect with the people we already know to complicate matters. My sister has also set me up with a new friend who I'm excited to meet, but I'm nervous to try to fit into my schedule.
Speaker 1: To even further complicate matters. We follow very strict covid protocols to protect our toddler who cannot yet be vaccinated and navigating the ins and outs of those safety conversations is exhausting.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I can take on new relationships right now, especially with people I don't know and who aren't connected to me through someone very close in my life.
Speaker 1: How can we let her know? We are not interested without sounding self important or ungrateful,
Speaker 1: appreciate any insight you have and happy holidays, cheers unpacking our etiquette. I love that title. What a great sign off. I love that.
Speaker 1: Um you're not alone. Unpacking our etiquette and I know, you know there there might be some people saying like, oh such a problem to have people wanting to help you make friends. It is, it can be, it can be stressful, you don't want to be rude, you don't know necessarily if it's gonna work out.
Speaker 1: And I think you made a really valid point that I think a lot of us are exhausted from the covid conversations. I know
Speaker 1: dan and I did a lot of conversations about them over the holidays because people have been so concerned about getting together and even though we've kind of been doing these safety check ins and you know, covid protocol check ins for well over a year now to two years now
Speaker 1: we are, we're exhausted by them. Were still sick of having to have them even though we're used to having them and
Speaker 1: throughout the move and all that, I can, I can sympathize and I can see where the urge to say, you know what now is not really a great time to introduce me to new people, but I'd love to reach back out to you when I am ready.
Speaker 1: And I say that because I think it's totally realistic that it's not always a great time to be introducing new people into your life. I think you know, we all want to feel like we're in a good spot to, to to be reaching out, Some of us are craving new friendships and things like that. But
Speaker 1: when you've just moved and you've got a lot that you're balancing already. I think it makes sense that you'd be feeling this way
Speaker 1: on the flip side of all of that, like I often being a a single and fun loving person um I am the person that people try to set people up with when they moved to Burlington and and not set up as a date, but like set up as in here's a here's a good person to connect with and
Speaker 1: get to know the area and get to know people and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And I got set up dan knows about this. I got set up on a friend date through a mutual friend and she's been such a great friend to have. I'm like, I like I love my new friend, like she's awesome and we've been having Yeah, it does happen that just like unpacking our etiquette says I'm excited about this other new friend that I might get to meet but I'm nervous about fitting her in already and so I just want to put out the positivity that sometimes it can feel overwhelming and it's okay if you really are in a place where it's overwhelming to say that to the person offering say boy, you know, now really isn't a great time for me, but I don't want to just say no because I know these can be really good introductions to have,
Speaker 1: you know, let me reach out when I'm a little less busy. I know everyone hates that word but
Speaker 1: I just think that there's there's room to kind of say thank you so much now is not a great time for it. I'd love to touch base on it again later when I can focus more on it but leave room for there to be that friendship magic that can happen in new places because it's fun
Speaker 1: exactly the same. I can't tell you know, I know and the very personal reflection I have in my mind is that and I had a number of these sort of similar situations throughout the fall people thinking about moving to Vermont who
Speaker 1: we would get the call and they would come and they'd be looking around and they'd want to
Speaker 1: just, you know, meet some people and see what the,
Speaker 1: the word on the ground is about some of the communities that they're looking at and when this year's holiday cards came, there was a a new little cluster in our holiday card arrivals and it were the folks that had come through and we're thinking about Vermont is a place they might live and
Speaker 1: I remember
Speaker 1: when I saw the first one of them, I didn't recognize the return address who's this gonna be, oh it's them, that was such a pleasant afternoon. Um, new friends. It was also a very low key, low cost visit for us, that particular pre visit and the thought that I thought might be helpful as an addition to I think you're
Speaker 1: even excellent sample script. I like the one that happened spontaneously as you were just talking and imagining yourself responding, it sounded like you and it sounded very at ease. You know, I, I just don't have my wheels under me right now. I can't imagine doing this in the near future, but I send the contact and I'd love to touch base with them and maybe at some point in the future we could work something out just
Speaker 1: essentially thanking them for the thought, thanking them for the idea taking the information but being upfront and at ease about the feasibility of it, the realistic feasibility of it for you that you're not likely to have a free weekend or afternoon for a call that happens in the near future.
Speaker 1: But then the sort of addition to that thought is that new relationships and I have to remind myself of this don't have to be draining. Then you can have new relationships that are about light touches about easy, getting to know people about
Speaker 1: saying yes to the things that work for you and fit with your life and no to the things that don't.
Speaker 1: And those decisions can be made on a case by case basis and that instead of having to make a big decision about
Speaker 1: whether or not there's room in your life for a whole new friendship. It can really be about whether or not a quick visit this saturday afternoon would be pleasant or, or doesn't work for you. And that's a much easier decision to make because I'll go even simpler.
Speaker 1: It can be even just about having made the contact. So I had got a surprise text message from um, one of my cousins on the other side of the family, uh, this summer, a woman that she had grown up with moved up to charlotte the town my parents live in and I spent a lot of time in as well as my sister and my sister and I both got this text message from our cousin
Speaker 1: that connected us to her friend who had moved up to our area and
Speaker 1: you know, I have more free time than my sister does. So I responded first and was just like, hey, I've got time if you want to meet up
Speaker 1: and she said, you know, I'm actually pretty busy right now. Let me get my feet under me because we're still moving in. We haven't heard from each other since and I still think it would be delightful if we did meet up when and if it can happen and if it doesn't, I'm not worried about it. But the connection is there
Speaker 1: and the person who moved here knows that we would certainly be more than willing. Like I know I could reach out to my cousin and say, hey, if your friend is still interested, you can let her know like, or I can reach directly out to her and say, Hey, I didn't know if you wanted to try to take a walk or something or connect happy, you know, totally fine if you don't want to, but sometimes it doesn't even have to be that visit, it can just be the exchange of hi, hi. I know you, you know me when it's convenient. Let's see if we can connect. You know, it could be that simple.
Speaker 1: You know me? That's right in my wheelhouse. That's because now now you've, um, you've got the social capital in the bank. You've, you've done the favor for the person who suggested it. You've actually reached out and you didn't have to do anything. I love this
Speaker 1: unpacking our etiquette. We think there are definitely a number of different ways to unpack this question and we certainly hope that our answer helps and that in the future as you have more time on your hands and hopefully as Covid becomes less of a concern with get togethers
Speaker 1: that you'll be able to really enjoy all the potential new friendships that you have
Speaker 1: good luck with that move and that toddler.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I guess joe's friendship turned out to be
Speaker 1: sort of infectious
Speaker 1: from joe. I learned how to be a friend and how to make friends.
Speaker 1: That one friendship often leads to others
Speaker 1: and best of all to appreciate and enjoy people of many varying backgrounds and personalities.
Speaker 1: Yes sir. With friends. It's a great old world.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Our next question is titled cash for cleaning during Covid. Dear lizzie and dan. I have a Covid tipping question for you. I'm traveling with my husband and baby and we are staying in a hotel this week due to Covid in an effort to minimize our contact with guests. Housekeeping is done by request.
Speaker 1: Only.
Speaker 1: No problem for us. We don't need our room cleaned every day. But we have asked for someone to come and collect our trash every day so far. You know those diapers pile up quickly.
Speaker 1: How should we handle tipping in this situation? Should I hand a tip directly to the person who comes to get our trash or whatever else we have requested, how much would you tip for that kind of service? And should we still leave a tip when we check out for whoever cleans our room after we leave? If so, How much?
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your insight and advice.
Speaker 1: Confused hotel guests,
Speaker 1: confused hotel guests. Thank you for the question. This was the question that initially confused me as a hotel guest when I was first traveling for Emily post Virginia Kaiser had to school me on tipping housekeeping staff. Absolutely. She noticed I wasn't cashing out of petty cash
Speaker 1: and she asked me how I was tipping the hotel staff and I didn't have a good answer for her And she said I was out there representing Emily Post and we needed to talk about that's a great behind the curtain story dan. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I thought I told that on this show before, but probably have, it's just, you know, we've been on for like seven years, remember?
Speaker 1: Well it sounds like it was time that we returned to it and it's one of the things I think about when people ask these kinds of questions because I think they're so thoughtful and I think a lot of people miss tipping hotel staff and particularly housekeeping,
Speaker 1: so I really appreciate the attention that's given to it. Okay, okay, so take us through it now that you have mastered this and learned from the great Virginia Kaiser,
Speaker 1: let us know what, what are the ways to handle this particular situation? We're not getting room service room cleaning every day, but people do come when we ask for things and to take the trash out, which is dirty diapers, Excuse me, while I remove the rest of the egg from my face and proceed um the, the answer that I was thinking of was one of
Speaker 1: reduction.
Speaker 1: The person is still coming every day and maybe instead of leaving $2 tip, if someone's cleaning your full room, maybe you just give them a dollar or maybe every couple of days you do a dollar. And
Speaker 1: so I whatever my usual expectation of myself would be, I would dial it back just a little bit and I would treat it more like the kind of tip I would give if someone brought up a sewing kit on request to the room or something like that and and a single instance of request. Yeah, exactly. And that's a situation where I think there are times where when I've had that petty cash available, I've had a tip ready and waiting and you just do the exchange as the exchange happens, it's not that you're paying for the sewing kit, but for that extra service of getting it to you on the spot as you need it before your big day. I felt inspired to tip in that moment and I think taking dirty diapers out might be something that I really appreciate it and I thought oh this person could get a little tip for that.
Speaker 1: Um So I would reduce my amount because it is less work and maybe that's less per day or you do it every couple of days, I would still do a general tip at the end of the week for the housekeeping that I would expect to come and clean the room that final time. I would think of more of a standard single service tip to complete the week at the end.
Speaker 1: And as far as whether you give it in person or leave it, I would leave it somewhere obvious somewhere near the job that's the one job they're likely to do if I wasn't there to deliver it in the trash can with the But maybe on the table that's near where the trash can is as opposed to I don't know, sitting with your wallet over on the bed stand where it might be
Speaker 1: look like it's actually meant to be in the wallet. Yeah. Exactly. Not that I would recommend leaving your wallet out on the bed stand either, but that's the the image I had in my mind. Yeah. You hit a lot of the points that can be found in our book. Like typically we think of tipping in a hotel room when it's just one person staying in the room as like, you know a couple of dollars a night, if you're getting that regular cleaning service
Speaker 1: and if you're not getting that cleaning service then you definitely want to make sure that you leave a nice tip at the very end because they'll you know, they'll be taking care of everything. And if it's you know, everything means a very very messy room then you're gonna up that. And if everything
Speaker 1: means really just very minimal swapping out the towels, that kind of thing and swapping out the sheets
Speaker 1: then you know, you can you can stay at the lower end of the range if you want. But when you do start increasing to having like 34, well 234 people in the room, we do suggest that you kind of puppet. And I could understand then if you're doing just a garbage removal kind of bringing it back down to that like a single person, a dollar or two
Speaker 1: for the removal of the trash? And that that's really appreciated.
Speaker 1: It's funny for some reason I kept in my head picturing that they were putting the trash outside of the room to be collected. I don't know if it's because it's covid or or or just because like I wasn't thinking about it. So in my mind it was like, are you waiting there to catch the person? But then when you when you were talking about it and not not being on the dresser by the wallet, that sort of thing, I was like, alright, come into the room to clean the trash.
Speaker 1: So you're probably going to see them if you're in there. We always recommend that if you if you can on that little pad of paper and pen that's often in a hotel room, just say thanks so much, you know, or for housekeeping or something like that, that really indicates that this is for you. It makes housekeeping feel a lot more confident about picking it up.
Speaker 1: But I love it. I love a classic hotel etiquette tipping question.
Speaker 1: It's so good to hear about people being out and about and enjoying these kinds of services, confused. Hotel guest. We hope that our answer helps you feel a little less confused and a little more comfortable out on the road?
Speaker 1: How do you go about being thoughtful? What do you do
Speaker 1: every time I try, I only make things worse. Is there some particular method of being thoughtful that works every time?
Speaker 1: Our next question comes in the form of a voicemail from Maria, we titled it Money manners,
Speaker 2: hi lizzie and dan.
Speaker 2: My name is Maria and I'm from Maine and I've been listening to the automatic IT podcast for a couple of years now. I started at the beginning of my time in college
Speaker 2: and I am graduating this month and I'm still listening.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for everything you've taught me. You've made me a lot more intentional and thoughtful.
Speaker 2: I just have a question for you about thank you notes. I'm currently writing some thank you notes for some graduation gifts and cards that I have received
Speaker 2: and I've come across a little bit of a question. Um and my question is to you, if someone has sent you a card with a check or maybe some cash as a gift
Speaker 2: and you're writing your thank you note, how
Speaker 1: can you
Speaker 2: mention and thank them for the money without directly saying thank you for the money. I find it pretty awkward just putting in the thank you note, thank you so much for the card and for the check or sometimes I say for the kind gift and it just seems a little bit awkward, so I would appreciate any insight you have on this matter. And again, thank you so much for all that you do. I really enjoy the show and I will always be a loyal follower and fan
Speaker 1: Maria, thank you so much for being such a loyal listener and thank you for your question. It's a good one. I know I've I've struggled with this in the past, but I have a phrase I've settled on, which is thank you so much for your generous gift dan do you have a phrase that you tend to use
Speaker 1: thoughtful when it comes, thoughtful gift? Yeah, If you don't wanna list the actual amount or say thanks for the money, thanks for the no. Um which I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to that, just really calling it what it is, which is a generous gift. A thoughtful gift is a good, easy, simple, clean, clear way to go. Um
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say, dad, it's good, it's like such a good quick question, you know? Yeah, and I think that if if the standard language or the language that we turn to, because it's effective and because it works, starts to feel perfunctory to you for some reason,
Speaker 1: that's where I say lean in just a little bit and think about a second sentence that says something else and maybe it's not about the gift, maybe it's about the relationship or maybe it's about
Speaker 1: getting to see them at the graduation or something that
Speaker 1: if it starts to feel wrote to you or maybe it's just that you know it you've done five of them and the fifth one doesn't feel as fresh as the first one felt figuring out ways to to stay authentic and sincere in your expression.
Speaker 1: It might mean that you want to say a little something more and we always say keep these notes brief, keep them short but also make them personal and give it that personal flavor. That's gonna let you feel really good about it
Speaker 1: without having the
Speaker 1: get so creative that you don't say what you mean. Which is also
Speaker 1: just directly and clearly thanking them for both reaching out and for the gift that they gave you.
Speaker 1: And I think often times that's that's another direction that you can go besides just trying to find a new way to describe the money that they gave you Maria, Congratulations on your graduation. We hope there are very bright and good things in your future to do with that degree. And thank you so much for the question.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us more questions as well as your updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You may leave us a voicemail or text message at 802858 K. I. N. D. That's 8028585463.
Speaker 1: Or you can reach us on social media on twitter. We're at Emily Post institute on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute on facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts so that we know you want your question on the show.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy awesome etiquette, please consider becoming a sustaining member. You can find out more about this by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ads free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing you helped to keep awesome etiquette on the air
Speaker 1: and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you so much for your support.
Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover and today we hear from chris Hi dan and lizzie, thank you so much for setting up and hosting the live session for Patreon members last week
Speaker 1: it was such a great experience to see and interact with not only the two of you but also with some of the other members of the awesome etiquette community.
Speaker 1: Thank you also for the advice on how to best connect with my new neighbors, fingers crossed, I'll have some neighborly salutes to send in soon
Speaker 1: and thank you dan for mentioning the podcast you've listened to since before podcasts were a thing and how you have a feeling of, well I've forgotten exactly how you described it, but my takeaway was sort of intimidation towards the hosts. I'm hesitant to admit that I've had a similar feelings towards you both because in no way have either of you presented yourselves in a manner that would cause that
Speaker 1: you have both graciously opened up your lives to all of your listeners, allowing us to get to know you on what feels like a very personal level that we can't easily reciprocate. And while we are welcome to send in our questions and thoughts, it doesn't feel the same.
Speaker 1: The live event changed that though because it suddenly became a more equal two way conversation. I also very much appreciated the small size of the attendees and made it so much easier to feel involved and engaged.
Speaker 1: Thank you again for providing such a great show week after week and for letting some of us have the opportunity to meet you. I know you've already talked about doing this more, but add me to the list of people who would love to be able to do it again.
Speaker 1: Thanks. I feel like I'm saying this too much, but I truly mean it every time chris
Speaker 1: chris it was so wonderful to meet you and to get to answer your question in in live in the moment um for those of you
Speaker 1: that are saying, wait, what do you mean live show, We were really excited about connecting with assisting member audience and we did a live phone call. So just, it was just a zoom chat,
Speaker 1: but just before the holidays I forget dan how many people we had on the call, but it was pretty intimate. It was a small group, not everybody turned their cameras on. Yeah, and that was okay, but and then by okay, I mean totally fine, like no, no problems with that,
Speaker 1: I love the way chris just described all of this because it really had that feeling where
Speaker 1: we got to see and hear from you and it is funny how that's that that visibility makes such a difference to creating that two way street to to breaking down the walls and and putting us together and it was wonderful to get to experience it. We are looking to do a lot more of those phone calls this year
Speaker 1: In 2022, especially as we're celebrating the 100 year anniversary, I imagine we'll do a few around the book launch, but I'm hoping Dan
Speaker 1: that we do a whole bunch throughout the rest of the year two because that was that was awesome. Like getting to see you all
Speaker 1: well, not in person, but in live moving versions was really great. It was really great.
Speaker 1: I would second that I was nervous about doing it and you and I had talked ahead of time about not over preparing that you and I are both natural presenters and talkers and whenever I think about having it to do, I want to be ready with everything I'm going to present and um we had said to ourselves that we we didn't want to go in with that spirit that we wanted to to get to know people and spend a little time with
Speaker 1: some of the most engaged and participatory members of the awesome etiquette audience and
Speaker 1: um that's always a little bit, a little bit risky and of course we can always trust the awesome etiquette audience to come and to deliver. Exactly. I definitely came away from the experience similar to chris enjoying the opportunity to see people interact with each other and get to see each other as well as just us,
Speaker 1: that the show to me feels like such a community, it feels like there's such a,
Speaker 1: a core group of people that really do listen regularly and it allows us to have much longer form discussion and share much
Speaker 1: more complicated and to my mind, more personal things and
Speaker 1: I just really appreciate that and this was a nice little layer to add to that experience. So chris, thank you for bringing it back as some feedback today and definitely please keep us updated on your new neighbors and how it's going, building a new relationship with them. We think that is just awesome etiquette in and of itself chris again, thanks for the feedback
Speaker 1: and thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your next feedback or update two awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind? That's 8028585463.
Speaker 1: It's time for our postscript segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and this actually is a topic of etiquette today, we're going to talk about how to end the holidays. They I know I like it and I love that dance first notice who even wants to think about this? I'm like, I know I'm still enjoying
Speaker 1: everything. Like don't make it, don't make it be over. I like the celebrating,
Speaker 1: but it's true that that they're kind of comes this point where you're like, how far into january are we doing things like saying happy New Years sending cards, You know, like things like that. So it's it's it's a good, it's a good one to start the year off on. I know because I know and end with just start doing beginning with an ending.
Speaker 1: This this post script comes from the place of having done this just enough years to know that we're going to start getting questions about a week and a half from now
Speaker 1: about when's the last time it's reasonable for someone to wish you a happy new year because people will be tired of hearing it and they will still be hearing it?
Speaker 1: And then the details of the question are well, have you seen someone since the new year that you can wish someone, but what if you haven't seen that person for two weeks and you're now in that window where it's not so common to wish someone a happy New year, but you still haven't seen him and done it yet. And then how long do you attenuate that?
Speaker 1: How about the weirdness of Covid that some of us still didn't wish anyone a happy 2021 somewhere like I was signing a check in late 2021 put the wrong year on it and then someone said that 2022 was coming and I realized that I had missed a whole year. Yes. Post stated the check. Oh man, it's kind of funny territory, but the way I tend to navigate this dan is actually exactly what you've already said,
Speaker 1: which is kind of as I see people throughout january and I kind of,
Speaker 1: I kind of ended in february, but as I see people throughout january, I wish them a happy new year, I think of it as the new year month, it's the start of the year month and it's in Vermont there's a little bit of a hibernation thing going on here because everyone does the holidays and then they're like exhausted from the holidays. So there's like
Speaker 1: the socializing you do because these aren't the people you see during the holidays. So for me
Speaker 1: I've got some friends that I actually do holiday things with and then I have other friends who either because family or travel or they're so involved with their other friends during the holiday or I'm so involved with my family during the holidays, we don't get to see each other. And so there's more of a coming together in january that happens
Speaker 1: and so I just kinda tend to think of it like different groups that you kind of move through these two months, this december january, this november 22 all the way through january kind of thing that tends to happen. But for the most part, by the time january is over, I don't
Speaker 1: break out the oh and you know, happy New Year to you too. You could, I wouldn't be offended if someone did,
Speaker 1: but but that's my cut off point. What about you? Well, I like it, that the cut off point is
Speaker 1: the time you get to do it once with each person. And to me that makes perfect sense. I think the thing that people sometimes find um bothersome or in their sort of less generous moments maybe annoying is when that's still a general greeting for someone and it's now a week later, two weeks later,
Speaker 1: maybe pushing out towards the end of the month and it's not about, oh, I haven't seen you or it's my first time to see you, but it's just that's the way I say goodbye in the store and goodbye on the street and goodbye from the office and it starts to feel like
Speaker 1: maybe someone is still living a couple of weeks in the past.
Speaker 1: For some reason I'm picturing like a Bill Waterson like single frame comic that starts the strip, you know where it's like, it's like Calvin like sitting out there with some kind of like sign like no more happy New year or something like that, you know, it's kind of grumpy calvary first get over it. No, but you, you mentioned something else that it's so true in my life and it's such a part of ending the holiday season and it wasn't on my list of, of, of thoughts for this show, but it's those little put a bow on it where I actually have some holiday business with somebody that hasn't been done yet.
Speaker 1: And you talk about those little clusters that kind of get deferred to january and maybe it's the cousin group that was away
Speaker 1: visiting family to do their christmas together, but you've got a little something, something for the kids to all exchange and that means you're still going to have to make that effort and I really like the idea of trying to honor that and make that meeting happen and do it and do it as soon as possible, obviously
Speaker 1: without any added stress or pressure that makes it not fun.
Speaker 1: But I think the sooner you can follow through and put those bows on things the better and the easier and
Speaker 1: I've definitely got a couple of voicemails on my phone right now that came in over a week off. That I'm saying to myself, boy, as I get going next week, there are some people that I'm,
Speaker 1: that I need to be in touch with because we, we've got some unfinished holiday business. I think when it comes to things like cards and whether or not you send them, this is one where there's often the odd holiday card that comes in a month, two months, three months late, that kind of
Speaker 1: like someone finally checks it off their to do list and it's like, no, no, no, we're not ditching this idea this year. I'm sending it even if we're celebrating ST Patrick's day in that humor, it actually ends up being kind of like an annual, funny, you know what I mean? Um, but as I'm sitting around thinking about all the people that I could have sent cards to that I didn't, you know, didn't get too, didn't take the time to make them for um whether I had it or didn't have the time to take a different question. But
Speaker 1: I think that, that I start running out of gas on that about halfway through january. I kind of think like, well there are some New Year's cards that come in those first two weeks for me, my own personal turnover tends to be like mid january, if I can't, if I can't get them out by the first of january and then obviously the male doesn't go out on the first of january, but
Speaker 1: if I can't kind of get them together and ready to be sent for that first couple weeks of january, then I just think, you know what, I'm saving it till next year or I'll be excited to wish them a happy birthday or something like that. But the birthday has got to be coming
Speaker 1: right, like, but don't, I don't beat myself up over it either. Like, I think there are some years where you can make the holiday cards happen, you know, no matter which holiday you're celebrating them with. But I think that there are other years where sometimes it just, it just doesn't happen. And that's where I go to that therapeutic place of forgiveness and look forward to the next year. You know? Speaking of forgiveness and therapeutic places, I have a very loaded question to ask you. Okay, what's that? What are your thoughts on holiday decorations? And I'm gonna put them into two categories. I'm gonna say inside the home and outside the home is invisible to the public.
Speaker 1: So is this where I have to admit that I'm pretty sure I kept my, my christmas tree until like March or april of last year. Like I took all the decorations off of it except for the lights.
Speaker 1: But I tell you folks, I was so addicted to the comfort and the cozy, what's, what's that word for? Is it like Hig Hig Hig e hike. That's, it's like, it's like, Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But it's like that feeling, that warm, that glow, that comfort. Like I was just so into it. I actually ended up leaving my garland with the, with the strand of lights up all year long. Stop turning it on about sometime in the spring, but just like
Speaker 1: wanted that glow of twinkly lights all spring until we really hit
Speaker 1: the point where we had light again. I, I think for me, maybe it's about the whole daylight savings time and trying to like create that niceness in the darkness. But I leave my lights up way too long. I will take down my outdoor lights. I think earlier this year I had to remove last year's out
Speaker 1: door lights because they were now dead
Speaker 1: and put up this year's lights. So I'm hoping to not waste that money this year. But yeah, no, I'm horror. I am horrible at this. This is, this is exposed, lizzie time.
Speaker 1: It's, I think it's one of those places where pretty much anything goes up to a point.
Speaker 1: And I think there are certain neighborhoods where
Speaker 1: people are more or less invested in sort of a uniformity of presentation between different houses and
Speaker 1: I know there's associations. Some places go so far as to actually have rules about it. And um, other places, those rules are unwritten. I think it's worth paying attention a little bit to what the unwritten rules are in any community and that doesn't mean you have to observe them or not, but I think
Speaker 1: in the interest of community harmony, I think noticing your neighbors and and staying roughly in line with them in terms of the expectations that develop year after year about how we decorate and adorn our communities is definitely something worth thinking about and paying attention to.
Speaker 1: So you know that this is you offering to come, help me take down christmas lights and check a christmas tree. Right, right, right, right. Anyone else hearing that out there in the union?
Speaker 1: The image I had listening to you talk was of the first mountain climbers to get to a mountain in the season and they have to go up and clear the ropes from the previous seasons climbing that have all been left. You know, totally, totally
Speaker 1: happy to do it because we'd love to be of assistance.
Speaker 1: Oh well while we are sad to see the holidays come to an end, we are thrilled to be starting this new year and thrilled that you are starting your new year with us. We hope that we make it a great one for you. We've got a lot of really fun things in store for 2022 and we want to thank you so much
Speaker 1: for being a part of the awesome etiquette audience and wish you a very happy New Year.
Speaker 1: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms. Today we have a special salute from our beloved assistant producer Bridget Hi awesome etiquette team, as you may know, I moved from Arizona to Alaska this spring, which is quite the change in climate.
Speaker 1: Well, a few weeks ago I was trying to get out of my friend's driveway which is very steep and hadn't been properly shoveled or de iced.
Speaker 1: I have a small car that is not all wheel drive, so I ended up getting stuck in the past. I have been able to shovel a bit and move the car back and forth until I could set myself free. But this time it just wasn't working. After almost two hours of unsuccessfully trying to get out, I was ready to call a tow truck. Luckily a neighbor saw me struggling and came over to help.
Speaker 1: He was able to get some chains under my tires so I could regain traction and get back onto the street. It saved me the cost of a tow truck and was a great relief when I was really frustrated all the best Brigitte. Oh, that is such a nice salute to neighbor neighborly kindness.
Speaker 1: Oh, Bridget, thank you so much for the salute and for just taking me there. I was halfway through your question thinking, oh, you could start with some cardboard boxes. Sometimes you get traction wedge, some boxes down in there and then and to have a neighbor show up with the right tools and to actually take the time to get you going again. So nice to hear
Speaker 1: Bridget, thank you so much for that salute. We really appreciate it. It's a great way to kick off the new year. Thank you so much for the salute and for all your incredible work on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you our dear audience for listening and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon, please connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and coworkers. However you like to share podcasts, you can send us your next question feedback or salute and we need them all because we'll be doubling up to get ready for paternity, leave another chris vacation.
Speaker 1: Let's see how many weeks we can get dan out of the office for by email to awesome etiquette. Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463
Speaker 1: on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily post institute and on facebook we are awesome etiquette and the Emily Post institute,
Speaker 1: please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette. And don't forget memberships start at just a dollar a month. You can subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app and please consider leaving us a review. It really helps our show ranking, which helps more people find awesome etiquette,
Speaker 1: which could in theory help make the world a kinder place. Our show is edited by Kris Albertine and assistant produced by Bridget Dowd. Thanks, Chris and Bridget.