Get a signed copy of our latest book, Emily Post's Etiquette - The Centennial Edition, for yourself or to give as a gift, and support Vermont's independent bookstore Bridgeside Books.

Order Your Signed Copy

Join our Substack newsletter for more from Emily Post.

Sign Up

Episode 401 - Editing Etiquette Hero Label

Episode 401 - Editing Etiquette

In this episode of Awesome Etiquette

Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty. On today’s show we take your questions on gifts at gender reveal parties, answering questions about having a baby in a same sex relationship, etiquette for editors, and graduation announcements and gifts for grads. For Awesome Etiquette Sustaining members our question is about asking for gift cards at weddings. Plus your most excellent feedback, etiquette salute and a postscript on Garden Parties from Emily Post’s Etiquette the 1922 edition.

Submit a Question

Support the Show

00:00:04

Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy. That's old fashioned

00:00:13

Speaker 1: watch act as host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other

00:00:22

Speaker 2: person, real

00:00:23

Speaker 1: friendliness.

00:00:24

Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration,

00:00:31

Speaker 2: respect and

00:00:32

Speaker 1: honesty. On today's show,

00:00:33

Speaker 2: we take your questions

00:00:35

Speaker 1: on gifts

00:00:36

Speaker 2: at gender reveal

00:00:36

Speaker 1: parties, answering

00:00:38

Speaker 2: questions about

00:00:39

Speaker 1: having a baby in a same sex relationship

00:00:42

Speaker 2: etiquette

00:00:42

Speaker 1: for editors

00:00:44

Speaker 2: and graduation

00:00:45

Speaker 1: announcements and gifts for grads for

00:00:47

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question of the week is

00:00:51

Speaker 1: about asking for gift cards

00:00:53

Speaker 2: at your wedding

00:00:53

Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute

00:00:56

Speaker 2: and a postscript on garden parties from

00:00:58

Speaker 1: Emily Post etiquette,

00:01:00

Speaker 2: The 1922

00:01:01

Speaker 1: edition. All

00:01:02

Speaker 2: that's coming up

00:01:05

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette comes to you from the

00:01:06

Speaker 1: studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud

00:01:09

Speaker 2: to be produced by the Emily

00:01:10

Speaker 1: Post Institute. I'm dan post

00:01:12

Speaker 2: Senning and I'm

00:01:13

Speaker 1: lizzie post

00:01:15

Speaker 1: and it is a beautiful day. Like let's get this recorded and get our next meeting's out of the way and then call it for the day if we can. I love that

00:01:24

Speaker 2: you're bringing that spirit. I'm so

00:01:25

Speaker 1: feeling you right now. Like, yes,

00:01:28

Speaker 2: it's, it

00:01:29

Speaker 1: feels like spring

00:01:30

Speaker 2: and summer came

00:01:31

Speaker 1: all at once together in the

00:01:33

Speaker 2: Span of about two

00:01:34

Speaker 1: days.

00:01:38

Speaker 2: I've been like ripping the plastic off my windows and yes, I put plastic

00:01:43

Speaker 1: on my windows in

00:01:44

Speaker 2: the winter to help save heating costs and

00:01:47

Speaker 1: just like all those little

00:01:48

Speaker 2: spring things

00:01:49

Speaker 1: That like, I feel like happened usually slowly, it's like they all happened within 24 hours this year.

00:01:55

Speaker 2: Like

00:01:56

Speaker 1: it's but it has, it's been a gorgeous,

00:01:58

Speaker 2: gorgeous week. I finally started running

00:02:00

Speaker 1: outside again,

00:02:01

Speaker 1: which is always a sign for

00:02:03

Speaker 2: me of spring and of like, you know when you start like waking up earlier

00:02:08

Speaker 1: naturally just because the sun's up like another sign of spring.

00:02:12

Speaker 2: I feel like, oh,

00:02:13

Speaker 1: those long days

00:02:14

Speaker 2: are so awesome.

00:02:16

Speaker 1: They really are. They, they do confuse the heck out of me though because sometimes it'll be that like 6, 37 o'clock

00:02:22

Speaker 2: hour and I'm like, I'm

00:02:23

Speaker 1: nowhere near ready for dinner. There's like, you know, it's bright sunshine

00:02:27

Speaker 2: out. I've got like another hour

00:02:28

Speaker 1: and a half, two hours

00:02:29

Speaker 2: of daylight

00:02:30

Speaker 1: left. We have a

00:02:31

Speaker 2: very similar problem. My version of that is that I, I get home from work and all I want to do is get outside. I wanna change the law, I want to get the weed whacker going, I want to put the saw blade on it, I want to get the chains.

00:02:42

Speaker 1: I wanna protocols

00:02:43

Speaker 2: that land sculpting.

00:02:46

Speaker 1: You know, you get the garden cart out on

00:02:49

Speaker 2: the tractor and I can get

00:02:50

Speaker 1: rocks from the stream

00:02:52

Speaker 2: to make flower beds and I can take the potting soil around and

00:02:56

Speaker 2: plant the bulbs and

00:02:58

Speaker 2: but

00:02:58

Speaker 1: it's, it really is, it's

00:02:59

Speaker 2: shaping. There's, there's, they're shaping of the ground and of the trees, it's so much easier to cut limbs and brush before the leaves come out. I know mine just popped on the big tree in my yard and I was like,

00:03:10

Speaker 1: oh, I missed it. That's the window well. So

00:03:14

Speaker 2: I'm feeling all of

00:03:15

Speaker 1: that and I've got a couple

00:03:16

Speaker 2: hours and I've also got two little girls that are

00:03:19

Speaker 1: hungry

00:03:20

Speaker 2: and they want dinner and I just want to stay outside and we've got this, I think classic parent situation where I'm just cajoling them, let's play outside, let's go outside. Don't you want to

00:03:31

Speaker 1: play outside? Isn't that the

00:03:32

Speaker 2: fun thing to do? And they buy it for a little while and then it becomes

00:03:37

Speaker 1: dad, I'm

00:03:37

Speaker 2: hungry in. We go 88 30

00:03:42

Speaker 1: but it's still light out

00:03:44

Speaker 2: and

00:03:45

Speaker 2: it is, it's just awesome summer summer feels like it arrived Tricia Post had to uh parenting solutions for what she called the Witching

00:03:54

Speaker 1: hour in our household,

00:03:56

Speaker 2: which was five o'clock where it was, we kids were like, we had enough energy for the

00:04:02

Speaker 1: day that we were going,

00:04:04

Speaker 2: you know nutso running around.

00:04:06

Speaker 2: And mom was still, it's

00:04:08

Speaker 1: still like a little

00:04:09

Speaker 2: early for mom to prep dinner for all four of us in my family. And so what she would do is she would make and this is still to this day, one of my favorite dishes, a

00:04:21

Speaker 1: french fry omelet. So

00:04:22

Speaker 2: you just do oven

00:04:23

Speaker 1: fries

00:04:23

Speaker 1: and you

00:04:24

Speaker 2: could do oven tater tots. I've moved

00:04:26

Speaker 1: onto that big fan

00:04:27

Speaker 1: And just a little one

00:04:28

Speaker 2: egg or you know

00:04:29

Speaker 1: Big is like a two egg omelet.

00:04:31

Speaker 2: Little is a one egg

00:04:32

Speaker 1: omelet and

00:04:33

Speaker 2: she would make that up for us and then she would put on Abba and Michael Jackson and she

00:04:39

Speaker 1: called it the five o'clock

00:04:40

Speaker 2: crazies and we had to, you had to

00:04:43

Speaker 2: run around

00:04:45

Speaker 1: as much as you

00:04:45

Speaker 2: could in any kind of which way

00:04:48

Speaker 2: in order to get

00:04:49

Speaker 1: your crazies out before

00:04:50

Speaker 2: dinner. So you got like something that had

00:04:53

Speaker 1: like, you know, the egg

00:04:54

Speaker 2: had a little protein, the potato

00:04:56

Speaker 1: had a little car,

00:04:57

Speaker 2: maybe a little cheese added to it for

00:04:59

Speaker 1: flavor

00:05:00

Speaker 2: and you just kind of got a little

00:05:02

Speaker 1: something in your belly. But then it was like you've got to move and like and that was the mission

00:05:07

Speaker 1: and I have so many fond memories

00:05:09

Speaker 2: of jumping on couches

00:05:11

Speaker 1: and things like that during five o'clock

00:05:13

Speaker 2: crazies. It was really

00:05:14

Speaker 1: fun.

00:05:15

Speaker 1: A fun little zone for us. Well

00:05:17

Speaker 2: like your mother,

00:05:18

Speaker 1: I've learned that if I do

00:05:20

Speaker 2: a good hearty

00:05:21

Speaker 1: snack right as we get out of the car

00:05:24

Speaker 1: and if I get that food

00:05:25

Speaker 2: in them, it buys me some

00:05:26

Speaker 1: time and then we go get our crazies out outside

00:05:30

Speaker 2: together

00:05:32

Speaker 1: that

00:05:34

Speaker 2: I can get a little work done while they play on the play set.

00:05:36

Speaker 1: Well, it is certainly nice to be

00:05:39

Speaker 2: dreaming

00:05:40

Speaker 1: about all of the fun things

00:05:41

Speaker 2: outside of work. But can

00:05:43

Speaker 1: I share with our audience one really fun thing that is work related that happened this week. Yes please.

00:05:51

Speaker 1: We got our illustrations are second round of illustrations from our illustrator

00:05:56

Speaker 2: for the book

00:05:57

Speaker 1: and I couldn't be more excited, I got them while I was on a phone call with dan and

00:06:03

Speaker 2: I literally stopped

00:06:05

Speaker 1: him. I totally was like okay because hang on, can I interrupt you? And you graciously said yes.

00:06:10

Speaker 1: And I was like you gotta gotta go look at your phone and

00:06:12

Speaker 2: check your email and see these.

00:06:14

Speaker 2: I think that that Katie has done such a good job on our

00:06:18

Speaker 1: illustrations, they really are coming out

00:06:20

Speaker 2: just how I hoped they would and it was so much

00:06:23

Speaker 1: fun to see them bring life

00:06:25

Speaker 2: to some of the

00:06:26

Speaker 1: pages and a look and

00:06:28

Speaker 2: it's this book does not

00:06:30

Speaker 1: have heavy illustration in it. We actually purposefully

00:06:33

Speaker 2: we thought originally

00:06:34

Speaker 1: that we were going to create a heavily

00:06:36

Speaker 2: designed book

00:06:37

Speaker 1: and then as I had gotten into reading the

00:06:39

Speaker 2: 1922

00:06:40

Speaker 1: edition, I actually really wanted to simplify it as

00:06:43

Speaker 2: much to what

00:06:44

Speaker 1: Emily had in the original as

00:06:46

Speaker 2: possible in terms of

00:06:47

Speaker 1: design and style. And

00:06:50

Speaker 2: it was a big decision

00:06:51

Speaker 1: but I think it was one that paid off and I just love

00:06:53

Speaker 2: how these illustrations

00:06:55

Speaker 1: fit that clean, streamlined

00:06:57

Speaker 1: design set that we've gone after for this particular book. So I'm really, really excited.

00:07:02

Speaker 1: I'm excited

00:07:03

Speaker 2: to get them all buttoned up

00:07:04

Speaker 1: to their next level of perfection and and see them in the book in the actual pages

00:07:09

Speaker 2: But I'm like still

00:07:10

Speaker 1: giddy about it because, well it makes me happy

00:07:13

Speaker 2: every time you're happy about something design

00:07:16

Speaker 1: color illustration

00:07:18

Speaker 2: related. Because

00:07:19

Speaker 1: I I tend to play that role in our R. Di ad

00:07:22

Speaker 2: where we receive things and I say oh this looks

00:07:24

Speaker 1: really good, this is good

00:07:25

Speaker 2: and

00:07:26

Speaker 1: I feel like you have that thought. But

00:07:29

Speaker 2: then you also see the things that you would like improved or

00:07:32

Speaker 1: changed or a little different. You

00:07:34

Speaker 2: see tweaks

00:07:35

Speaker 1: and

00:07:36

Speaker 1: when

00:07:37

Speaker 2: you receive something and say oh this looks really good to me. I

00:07:41

Speaker 1: I have confidence

00:07:41

Speaker 2: in it. So it was really it was really fun to watch that happen in the moment. Well thank you for for your

00:07:49

Speaker 1: support and supporting

00:07:51

Speaker 2: my more nitpicky. I well

00:07:54

Speaker 1: I do think they've gotten better

00:07:55

Speaker 2: every time because I think it's

00:07:57

Speaker 1: it's worth

00:07:58

Speaker 2: it. It's worth the effort. No question.

00:08:00

Speaker 2: No they

00:08:01

Speaker 1: really have and I'm so

00:08:02

Speaker 2: excited about them. So

00:08:04

Speaker 1: it's really fun

00:08:04

Speaker 2: to see this book coming together in the last stages of of tweaks and adjustments before it heads off to the printers

00:08:11

Speaker 1: which I'm very excited about is a

00:08:13

Speaker 2: U. S. Printer. So that's that's very cool. I think that's the first time this book has been printed in the U. S.

00:08:18

Speaker 2: But just so excited for the launch of this book.

00:08:20

Speaker 1: And and

00:08:21

Speaker 2: to be able to tell you all that we are very close to preorder season. So

00:08:25

Speaker 1: stay on the lookout

00:08:26

Speaker 2: if you haven't yet joined our newsletter, definitely go to Emily Post dot com and join our newsletter today so that

00:08:33

Speaker 1: you can get the

00:08:34

Speaker 2: freshest fresh announcements

00:08:36

Speaker 1: about things like

00:08:37

Speaker 2: pre order and the book's launch and events for the

00:08:40

Speaker 1: book and things like

00:08:41

Speaker 2: that.

00:08:41

Speaker 2: Um just go to Emily Post dot com

00:08:43

Speaker 1: and you can find the sign up right from the

00:08:45

Speaker 2: top right corner of our

00:08:46

Speaker 1: homepage. Lizzie

00:08:48

Speaker 2: post. That is a great tease on the preorders being almost here. I also like you very excited for that big announcement.

00:08:56

Speaker 2: You know what else? I'm excited for

00:08:58

Speaker 1: what

00:08:59

Speaker 2: we've got a show to do we. Do you want to get to some questions? Let's do it. Alright,

00:09:05

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette. Emily Post dot com. Leave a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463.

00:09:20

Speaker 2: Or you can reach us on social

00:09:21

Speaker 1: media on twitter. We're

00:09:22

Speaker 2: at Emily Post on instagram. We are at Emily Post institute

00:09:26

Speaker 2: and on facebook were awesome etiquette. Just use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your social media posts. So we know you want your question on the show.

00:09:42

Speaker 2: Our first question this week is about gender party protocol.

00:09:46

Speaker 1: Hello lizzie

00:09:46

Speaker 2: and dan, my boyfriend's best friend is expecting a new baby at the end of the year and they're

00:09:51

Speaker 1: having a gender reveal

00:09:52

Speaker 2: over the summer. I don't know the expecting mother well enough to be invited to a separate baby

00:09:57

Speaker 1: shower. So I'm

00:09:58

Speaker 2: just the plus one to the gender reveal party.

00:10:01

Speaker 2: But I of course want to bring a gift.

00:10:04

Speaker 1: What would be appropriate

00:10:05

Speaker 2: in this situation? I don't know if the father is having a diaper party or not, but I don't really feel like a pack of diapers would be appropriate for a gender reveal. Anyway.

00:10:14

Speaker 2: I would love to hear any recommendations you have. Thank you in advance regards Caitlin, Caitlin.

00:10:21

Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the question.

00:10:22

Speaker 2: I know that gender reveal parties are are pretty popular. We don't write about them Emily

00:10:27

Speaker 1: post. But

00:10:29

Speaker 2: from what I can tell it's really just a party to reveal the

00:10:31

Speaker 1: sex of the baby. And sometimes

00:10:33

Speaker 2: that's a surprise to everybody,

00:10:35

Speaker 1: including the parents, right? Like when you do the cut the cake or or fire off the

00:10:39

Speaker 2: confetti thing.

00:10:41

Speaker 1: Like my friend did a confetti hit the pinata. That's another one I've seen. Yeah.

00:10:45

Speaker 2: So different

00:10:46

Speaker 1: ways that either the

00:10:48

Speaker 1: couple can get surprised along with all the guests

00:10:50

Speaker 2: or it's just a

00:10:51

Speaker 1: surprise for the guests and they reveal the sex of the baby

00:10:55

Speaker 2: to me. That's

00:10:57

Speaker 1: the point of the party as opposed to a shower where you bring gifts. So my

00:11:01

Speaker 2: inclination would

00:11:02

Speaker 1: be to say if

00:11:03

Speaker 2: you really feel like you

00:11:04

Speaker 1: want to bring something, bring a

00:11:06

Speaker 2: card and some flowers or something

00:11:08

Speaker 1: like that. But the the shower is really the time for

00:11:12

Speaker 1: the gifts and

00:11:12

Speaker 2: the registry and

00:11:13

Speaker 1: all of that. I think

00:11:14

Speaker 2: this is supposed to be

00:11:16

Speaker 1: a fun thing

00:11:17

Speaker 2: outside of the world of

00:11:19

Speaker 1: gift giving. And yet

00:11:20

Speaker 2: at the same time,

00:11:22

Speaker 1: I know

00:11:22

Speaker 2: that we as americans really love to

00:11:24

Speaker 1: gift at every opportunity

00:11:26

Speaker 2: we possibly can and

00:11:27

Speaker 1: sometimes when there's

00:11:28

Speaker 2: no reason at all. So I could

00:11:30

Speaker 1: also understand if as these parties have

00:11:32

Speaker 2: become more a part of our culture that they've morphed into

00:11:36

Speaker 2: uh

00:11:36

Speaker 1: something where gifts are

00:11:38

Speaker 2: are very common,

00:11:39

Speaker 1: but it's not the same as a registry.

00:11:41

Speaker 2: So I don't know what's been

00:11:42

Speaker 1: your experience with them

00:11:43

Speaker 2: Because have you attended 1?

00:11:45

Speaker 2: I think you hit the etiquette on this one pretty much right on

00:11:49

Speaker 1: the party

00:11:51

Speaker 2: itself. The whole purpose of it isn't a gift giving party. So I don't think there's any particular expectation around that.

00:11:57

Speaker 2: But like you, I've noticed that nothing excites people more than new babies when it comes to

00:12:03

Speaker 1: giving a little

00:12:04

Speaker 2: something clothing is so cute. The toys are so cute.

00:12:09

Speaker 1: It's hard to

00:12:10

Speaker 2: resist.

00:12:11

Speaker 2: It is and I'll tell you as a parent, it's really nice to, to just feel that much attention

00:12:18

Speaker 1: and excitement for something

00:12:19

Speaker 2: that's such a big deal in your life. And I, I really like you want to start from that place of emphasizing that it's not an expectation that it's not a courtesy that's particularly attached to this party and

00:12:32

Speaker 2: it's not at all uncommon for

00:12:34

Speaker 2: for people to give a little something to expect him parents and to be really excited about doing it and to want to do it and do it well. And in that spirit

00:12:42

Speaker 2: I thought I had a couple of suggestions for little things.

00:12:46

Speaker 1: First

00:12:47

Speaker 2: I know of a particularly good etiquette

00:12:49

Speaker 1: book produced

00:12:50

Speaker 2: by a storied

00:12:51

Speaker 1: institution of

00:12:52

Speaker 2: etiquette for very young early readers. There are two books that Cindy post Senning. My mother wrote, one called Emily's Magic Words and another called caring and sharing

00:13:03

Speaker 2: that are both just lovely sweet books that um, I think would be nice additions to any library. I can't, I can't get out of the question like this without mentioning them.

00:13:12

Speaker 2: The other thought that I had was because it's a gender reveal party. If I was going to choose a gift, I would either be prepared for a gift that was geared towards a baby of either sex. But even more I would be thinking about a gift that was effectively gender neutral. And there are a lot of

00:13:31

Speaker 2: learning games in particular, learning toys that are appropriate for any child. And

00:13:36

Speaker 2: this was where I wanted to offer a hot tip. That was a fun one in my life. And it's a website called Wicked Uncle

00:13:43

Speaker 1: and

00:13:44

Speaker 2: I have a friend who I've had since the second grade who always gives, he's the godfather of Anisha and he gives our girls the, and now boy, although the boy hasn't gotten anything yet, the best presence and they're, they're, it's, it's a range there, you know, some are less expensive, some are more expensive.

00:14:01

Speaker 2: They're all geared towards learning. They're all incredibly well made and

00:14:05

Speaker 2: it got to the point where we were so excited about the gifts that he would give, that they sort of had a special

00:14:10

Speaker 1: place

00:14:11

Speaker 2: holiday or each new baby, whatever it was. And I finally asked him

00:14:16

Speaker 2: and he's a bit of a contrary and he goes to this website called

00:14:19

Speaker 1: Wicked Uncle that

00:14:20

Speaker 2: it's all broken down by age for different for different kinds of toys and I just couldn't recommend it highly enough. I think you'd find something really cool there.

00:14:28

Speaker 2: So Caitlin

00:14:29

Speaker 1: while you don't have to actually bring

00:14:31

Speaker 2: anything to this

00:14:32

Speaker 1: party if, because you're

00:14:33

Speaker 2: not invited to the shower, you feel

00:14:35

Speaker 1: like you want to get at

00:14:36

Speaker 2: least something to

00:14:37

Speaker 1: celebrate this little baby.

00:14:39

Speaker 1: Um,

00:14:40

Speaker 2: Wicked uncle dot com,

00:14:41

Speaker 1: Great, great resource according to dan etiquette books, great resource according to us. If we do so. So

00:14:48

Speaker 2: ourselves and certainly

00:14:50

Speaker 1: a card or

00:14:50

Speaker 2: flowers or something

00:14:51

Speaker 1: similar would be really welcome. We hope you have a lot of fun at the party.

00:14:57

Speaker 1: Los Angeles County's annual Ladera Park baby show gets rolling as 1000 tiny tops show up in carriages, prams, buggies and push carts, daintily decorated, come on look alive boy, his mother proud and boy as Danny boy ever tired. So a little Nipper takes a nip of milk.

00:15:19

Speaker 1: Our next question is titled same

00:15:21

Speaker 2: sex

00:15:21

Speaker 1: stork science.

00:15:23

Speaker 2: Hello

00:15:24

Speaker 1: lizzie and dan. I love listening to your podcast. Your voices in my ear have carried

00:15:28

Speaker 2: me through several sticky

00:15:29

Speaker 1: situations and

00:15:31

Speaker 2: have given me confidence

00:15:32

Speaker 1: in social events. Recently

00:15:34

Speaker 2: though, my wife and

00:15:35

Speaker 1: I have been trying to navigate a certain line of questions from

00:15:37

Speaker 2: strangers as well

00:15:39

Speaker 1: as friends and family.

00:15:40

Speaker 2: My wife and I are

00:15:41

Speaker 1: both women and

00:15:42

Speaker 2: we recently had a baby. Yay,

00:15:45

Speaker 2: our daughter is marvelous and we are so thrilled and

00:15:48

Speaker 1: lucky to have been

00:15:49

Speaker 2: able to welcome her

00:15:50

Speaker 1: into our lives. Science has made some strides, but as everyone

00:15:54

Speaker 2: knows, we are

00:15:55

Speaker 1: still not able

00:15:56

Speaker 2: to make a baby together

00:15:58

Speaker 1: and there's a very cute little

00:16:00

Speaker 2: winky face with the tongue sticking out Emoji

00:16:02

Speaker 2: after that.

00:16:04

Speaker 2: This is

00:16:04

Speaker 1: where my question comes

00:16:05

Speaker 2: in.

00:16:06

Speaker 2: People, strangers and people we know ask us rather invasive

00:16:11

Speaker 1: questions about the

00:16:12

Speaker 2: how

00:16:13

Speaker 2: how she was conceived, who

00:16:15

Speaker 1: provided the component

00:16:16

Speaker 2: parts sperm and egg, et cetera.

00:16:19

Speaker 1: Well I

00:16:19

Speaker 2: know this is

00:16:20

Speaker 1: innocent curiosity.

00:16:22

Speaker 2: These questions are rather

00:16:23

Speaker 1: private and

00:16:24

Speaker 2: are at their core

00:16:26

Speaker 1: only our

00:16:27

Speaker 2: daughters. My wife's and my business

00:16:30

Speaker 2: people don't ask opposite sex couples how

00:16:32

Speaker 1: their babies were conceived

00:16:34

Speaker 2: whose egg and sperm

00:16:35

Speaker 1: was used.

00:16:36

Speaker 1: People

00:16:37

Speaker 2: would not know how

00:16:38

Speaker 1: a couple or a single

00:16:39

Speaker 2: person become parents

00:16:41

Speaker 1: unless they were outspoken

00:16:42

Speaker 2: about fertility difficulties or adoption.

00:16:45

Speaker 1: I think most people

00:16:46

Speaker 2: would also recognize that this is a sensitive topic

00:16:50

Speaker 1: and ultimately not their business.

00:16:52

Speaker 2: We were recently at a pride festival with our child, A member

00:16:56

Speaker 1: of the community.

00:16:57

Speaker 2: A stranger from an older

00:16:59

Speaker 1: generation was

00:17:00

Speaker 2: admiring our daughter.

00:17:01

Speaker 1: She's very cute

00:17:02

Speaker 2: and began asking

00:17:04

Speaker 1: incredibly invasive

00:17:05

Speaker 2: and rude questions like whether

00:17:08

Speaker 1: she was one of our

00:17:09

Speaker 2: quote unquote natural

00:17:11

Speaker 1: child,

00:17:12

Speaker 2: did one of us carry her? Are we both on her birth certificate? I know

00:17:18

Speaker 1: that it was much harder

00:17:19

Speaker 2: for L. G. B T Q plus

00:17:21

Speaker 1: folks to have Children in

00:17:22

Speaker 2: the past. So this person was excited

00:17:25

Speaker 1: but

00:17:25

Speaker 2: we were very uncomfortable. She's our daughter, that's all that matters.

00:17:30

Speaker 1: However,

00:17:30

Speaker 2: while we did not want to answer, we didn't want to meet

00:17:34

Speaker 1: innocent, impolite nous with

00:17:36

Speaker 2: a rude response either.

00:17:37

Speaker 2: We

00:17:38

Speaker 1: evaded the questions honestly. The questions

00:17:40

Speaker 2: make me angry. So when I

00:17:42

Speaker 1: respond, it kind of shows

00:17:44

Speaker 2: my go

00:17:45

Speaker 1: to response

00:17:46

Speaker 2: is try to

00:17:47

Speaker 1: smile

00:17:47

Speaker 1: and then this in quotes

00:17:50

Speaker 1: that is quite private and not

00:17:52

Speaker 2: information we share.

00:17:53

Speaker 2: My wife is uncomfortable

00:17:55

Speaker 1: with this statement.

00:17:56

Speaker 1: She is a

00:17:57

Speaker 2: much kinder and more

00:17:58

Speaker 1: patient person than I.

00:18:00

Speaker 2: We later

00:18:00

Speaker 1: started talking about

00:18:01

Speaker 2: how we needed a response. We could keep in our back pocket to draw from quickly when

00:18:06

Speaker 1: needed and

00:18:07

Speaker 2: that both of us were comfortable

00:18:09

Speaker 1: using to nip questions politely in the bud.

00:18:12

Speaker 2: I said that we needed to consult with lizzie and dan,

00:18:15

Speaker 1: do you have a sample

00:18:16

Speaker 2: script we could use in these

00:18:17

Speaker 1: situations. You're

00:18:19

Speaker 2: thoughtful and skillful scripts alleviate

00:18:21

Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety.

00:18:22

Speaker 2: Most sincerely Friends

00:18:24

Speaker 1: of storks. Oh, I love that. Sign

00:18:26

Speaker 2: off.

00:18:27

Speaker 1: Friends of storks,

00:18:28

Speaker 2: Me too. And thank you so much. Friends of storks for your question and a great big hearty, congratulations on the new arrival and please pass along our well wishes to the whole family.

00:18:41

Speaker 2: I always get a little anxiety myself when people ask for sample scripts because I have to share the mic with the master of sample scripts and I do, I feel the pressure a little bit to be able to keep

00:18:51

Speaker 1: up,

00:18:54

Speaker 2: but

00:18:55

Speaker 1: before we get to that,

00:18:56

Speaker 2: I also want to acknowledge the good work that I think you're doing here. I love that you've internalized that

00:19:03

Speaker 1: even when you're confronted

00:19:04

Speaker 2: with a question that's

00:19:06

Speaker 2: obviously rude. That's obviously about details in your life that are

00:19:12

Speaker 2: any reasonable person would understand

00:19:14

Speaker 1: our private

00:19:16

Speaker 2: and that

00:19:17

Speaker 1: your response to that is to have an

00:19:19

Speaker 2: expectation of yourself that you start off with trying to smile that you start off with trying to come from a place of

00:19:25

Speaker 1: understanding

00:19:26

Speaker 2: and of

00:19:27

Speaker 1: managing the situation,

00:19:29

Speaker 2: using the things that are in

00:19:30

Speaker 1: your control. And I just

00:19:31

Speaker 2: want to applaud that effort and

00:19:34

Speaker 2: just saying, I think it's really at the heart of what we try to think of

00:19:38

Speaker 1: as good etiquette here,

00:19:39

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette.

00:19:41

Speaker 2: I

00:19:41

Speaker 1: also understand a little bit your

00:19:43

Speaker 2: wife's discomfort with the

00:19:44

Speaker 1: statement that's quite private and it's not

00:19:46

Speaker 2: information we

00:19:47

Speaker 1: share and it's just a minor discomfort.

00:19:50

Speaker 2: But when

00:19:52

Speaker 1: that sample script begins with,

00:19:54

Speaker 2: that's quite private,

00:19:55

Speaker 1: it is in some ways a a potentially neutral

00:20:01

Speaker 2: description

00:20:01

Speaker 1: of your approach to that topic,

00:20:04

Speaker 1: but there are

00:20:04

Speaker 2: also tones

00:20:05

Speaker 1: and interpretations that could have

00:20:07

Speaker 2: me here. That as a critique

00:20:09

Speaker 1: of someone

00:20:09

Speaker 2: asking the question. To

00:20:10

Speaker 1: me, it sounds like you're crossing a line, like, like I need to let you know you've stepped over into private territory.

00:20:16

Speaker 2: Exactly.

00:20:17

Speaker 1: And I think that really

00:20:18

Speaker 2: frankly could be an appropriate

00:20:19

Speaker 1: response if you were comfortable delivering

00:20:22

Speaker 2: it

00:20:23

Speaker 1: to something that is so personal and

00:20:25

Speaker 2: private. But I think with all of your understanding about

00:20:27

Speaker 1: the sort of obliviousness that could

00:20:29

Speaker 2: lead to this or even the good intentions or natural curiosity

00:20:32

Speaker 1: that could lead to

00:20:33

Speaker 2: this,

00:20:33

Speaker 2: that

00:20:34

Speaker 1: having a sample script that

00:20:35

Speaker 2: avoids that the potential of that impression

00:20:37

Speaker 1: completely is

00:20:39

Speaker 2: is a good idea is worth, is worth having as part of your toolbox.

00:20:44

Speaker 2: I took a tiny shot

00:20:45

Speaker 1: at a sample script

00:20:46

Speaker 2: and then when I checked the show notes, it was very close to what

00:20:49

Speaker 1: you have and I'm

00:20:50

Speaker 2: hoping that you

00:20:51

Speaker 1: can share your slightly

00:20:52

Speaker 2: better version of it. But I, I think we

00:20:54

Speaker 1: were thinking very

00:20:55

Speaker 2: similarly on this

00:20:56

Speaker 1: because

00:20:57

Speaker 2: I was actually

00:20:58

Speaker 1: when I read your show notes,

00:20:59

Speaker 2: I was like, we're totally on the same

00:21:01

Speaker 1: page. I think

00:21:02

Speaker 2: that

00:21:03

Speaker 2: one way to approach this to get into the sample script

00:21:06

Speaker 1: that you're going to deliver, that

00:21:07

Speaker 2: is going to be that we don't share this information. Part

00:21:09

Speaker 1: of it

00:21:10

Speaker 1: is

00:21:10

Speaker 2: to sympathize and I hear that sympathy coming within the story that you've told us,

00:21:17

Speaker 1: you've

00:21:18

Speaker 2: mentioned at one point that you recognize that it's innocent and politeness

00:21:22

Speaker 1: or natural

00:21:23

Speaker 2: curiosity,

00:21:24

Speaker 2: and I think that you can lean

00:21:26

Speaker 1: into that a little

00:21:27

Speaker 2: bit and that also will put the other person at ease to not feel

00:21:31

Speaker 2: like they just made a giant faux pas even though they

00:21:34

Speaker 1: kind of did. But

00:21:35

Speaker 2: it can help too, I think,

00:21:38

Speaker 2: support the fact that you're aware that people

00:21:41

Speaker 1: might be curious

00:21:42

Speaker 2: or interested in the how of how this precious child was created, and I think just

00:21:48

Speaker 1: giving a

00:21:49

Speaker 2: little bit of lip service to that will

00:21:50

Speaker 1: help. So, I started

00:21:52

Speaker 2: out with something along the lines of oh, we totally

00:21:56

Speaker 1: understand the

00:21:57

Speaker 2: curiosity

00:21:58

Speaker 2: on how, you know, our daughter came to be or we totally

00:22:01

Speaker 1: understand the

00:22:02

Speaker 2: curiosity.

00:22:03

Speaker 2: However, we actually made a decision that our daughter's creation stories hers, so for now we aren't sharing

00:22:09

Speaker 1: it and I've

00:22:10

Speaker 2: got to say that came like the sample

00:22:13

Speaker 1: script actually came from,

00:22:15

Speaker 2: I remember when Cameron Diaz

00:22:16

Speaker 1: and I think she

00:22:17

Speaker 2: Just has one kid

00:22:18

Speaker 1: now, but they might be trying

00:22:20

Speaker 2: for a second.

00:22:21

Speaker 1: I had a kid

00:22:22

Speaker 2: later in life and people were, you know, asking, oh, was it surrogacy, did you use your eggs, did you? You know, it says there's a lot of personal information

00:22:30

Speaker 1: being asked

00:22:31

Speaker 2: and she just said, you know, our our daughter's creation story is hers. And when she's old enough, we'll we'll tell

00:22:37

Speaker 1: it to her and she can share

00:22:38

Speaker 2: it with you. And

00:22:40

Speaker 2: I don't think you have to go that far down the road.

00:22:42

Speaker 2: But I really

00:22:43

Speaker 1: liked the idea

00:22:44

Speaker 2: of moving towards

00:22:46

Speaker 2: the reminder that that this is

00:22:48

Speaker 1: private without saying

00:22:49

Speaker 2: this is private. But saying this story is really one that someone else owns or that we own with and for our daughter. And and we're just not

00:22:56

Speaker 1: comfortable sharing it

00:22:57

Speaker 2: yet. And I think that's fine and many people would understand and it doesn't have to feel

00:23:02

Speaker 1: quite so much like that

00:23:03

Speaker 2: line of

00:23:04

Speaker 2: um, I'm sorry that's private. You can't come in here, you

00:23:07

Speaker 1: know that we were talking

00:23:08

Speaker 2: about where

00:23:09

Speaker 2: just simply acknowledging

00:23:11

Speaker 1: that something is private can

00:23:12

Speaker 2: kind of kind of make it feel

00:23:14

Speaker 1: like that hand is up

00:23:15

Speaker 2: or like someone has already crossed

00:23:16

Speaker 1: into your

00:23:17

Speaker 2: private territory and you're trying to

00:23:19

Speaker 1: push them back out of it

00:23:20

Speaker 2: lizzie

00:23:21

Speaker 1: you and I chose,

00:23:22

Speaker 2: I think two words to center our sample scripts that were very similar. One was story and one was curious or curiosity

00:23:30

Speaker 1: and I just had them flipped around. I lead with

00:23:32

Speaker 2: the

00:23:33

Speaker 1: that is a story we're waiting

00:23:35

Speaker 2: for our son daughter

00:23:36

Speaker 1: child to tell

00:23:38

Speaker 1: and sort of very

00:23:39

Speaker 2: similarly where you take the responsibility for

00:23:42

Speaker 1: that. The

00:23:43

Speaker 2: the choice

00:23:44

Speaker 1: about that private information and give it to

00:23:47

Speaker 2: the person who it

00:23:48

Speaker 1: belongs the most immediately

00:23:49

Speaker 2: to the child. And

00:23:50

Speaker 1: obviously

00:23:52

Speaker 2: they're not at a place yet where they're going

00:23:54

Speaker 1: to be making those choices and

00:23:56

Speaker 2: deciding how to tell

00:23:57

Speaker 1: it. So it's not

00:23:58

Speaker 2: available.

00:24:00

Speaker 1: I followed that up with and I was thinking

00:24:02

Speaker 2: particularly about um

00:24:04

Speaker 1: the sample

00:24:05

Speaker 2: situation

00:24:06

Speaker 1: of a pride event where

00:24:07

Speaker 2: there's a particular type of

00:24:08

Speaker 1: curiosity and I was wondering

00:24:11

Speaker 2: if you wanted to engage with that you could follow with something like you, like you lead with

00:24:16

Speaker 1: if you're curious

00:24:17

Speaker 2: and want to learn more.

00:24:19

Speaker 2: This is a great resource or there's lots of information

00:24:22

Speaker 1: available

00:24:23

Speaker 2: at X. Y or Z. So

00:24:25

Speaker 1: that you can acknowledge in some way that that curiosity and maybe

00:24:29

Speaker 2: even

00:24:30

Speaker 2: support

00:24:31

Speaker 1: their interest

00:24:32

Speaker 2: if if it feels

00:24:33

Speaker 1: genuine to you and you want to point them in a certain direction. But

00:24:36

Speaker 2: I don't particularly want to share the personal details or the way that you approached it with your family. I

00:24:41

Speaker 1: really like that

00:24:43

Speaker 2: pivot to

00:24:44

Speaker 1: here's more information here. And I also like that your pivot

00:24:47

Speaker 2: wasn't just to, if

00:24:48

Speaker 1: you want to know more google it. Like you can find out tons of information that way.

00:24:53

Speaker 1: Um, I like the fact that you kept it a bit more pinpointed and gentle and like, like an encouragement

00:25:00

Speaker 2: to go find out,

00:25:01

Speaker 1: you know how a same sex couple might

00:25:03

Speaker 2: might

00:25:04

Speaker 1: procreate. I think that that's really

00:25:07

Speaker 2: that's that's I like I like the gentle

00:25:09

Speaker 1: pivot that you gave there because that too

00:25:11

Speaker 2: could have like

00:25:12

Speaker 1: you could put some edge on that

00:25:14

Speaker 2: if you wanted

00:25:15

Speaker 1: to.

00:25:16

Speaker 1: And I think the way you've structured it, there's lots of information

00:25:20

Speaker 2: about all the ways

00:25:21

Speaker 1: that people can handle this at,

00:25:23

Speaker 2: you know, and list a website or if you search for

00:25:26

Speaker 1: it, you'll get a slew

00:25:27

Speaker 2: of websites that are

00:25:28

Speaker 1: all great. You

00:25:29

Speaker 2: know, we

00:25:30

Speaker 1: found such and such very helpful

00:25:33

Speaker 1: friends of storks before we close this

00:25:36

Speaker 2: question out, I just

00:25:37

Speaker 1: really want to praise

00:25:39

Speaker 2: you and your partner

00:25:40

Speaker 1: for your good etiquette,

00:25:41

Speaker 2: your ability

00:25:43

Speaker 1: to both

00:25:44

Speaker 2: recognize

00:25:46

Speaker 1: your own

00:25:46

Speaker 2: perspectives as

00:25:48

Speaker 1: valued and something that you want to have self

00:25:51

Speaker 2: respect with

00:25:52

Speaker 1: and that your

00:25:53

Speaker 2: perspectives

00:25:54

Speaker 1: on what to say and how you say it might vary even within your couple

00:25:59

Speaker 1: relationship,

00:26:01

Speaker 2: but that you're

00:26:02

Speaker 1: working towards

00:26:03

Speaker 2: finding something that

00:26:03

Speaker 1: works for both of you.

00:26:04

Speaker 2: That in and of itself is

00:26:06

Speaker 1: great etiquette. There is really great

00:26:08

Speaker 2: etiquette at play

00:26:09

Speaker 1: here when you are

00:26:11

Speaker 2: recognizing the innocence

00:26:13

Speaker 1: or the natural

00:26:15

Speaker 2: curiosity of the other

00:26:16

Speaker 1: person. And even though

00:26:18

Speaker 2: it's resulting

00:26:19

Speaker 1: in something that

00:26:19

Speaker 2: feels offensive

00:26:21

Speaker 1: and, and like an invasion

00:26:22

Speaker 2: of your privacy.

00:26:23

Speaker 1: I love

00:26:24

Speaker 2: the fact that

00:26:24

Speaker 1: your goal is to handle that awkward moment

00:26:28

Speaker 2: in a

00:26:29

Speaker 1: way that's going to help make both

00:26:31

Speaker 2: you, your partner

00:26:32

Speaker 1: and

00:26:33

Speaker 2: the other person

00:26:34

Speaker 1: involved feel more comfortable with what's going on and

00:26:37

Speaker 2: redirect it to a place. I just

00:26:39

Speaker 1: think there's so much good

00:26:41

Speaker 2: etiquette already happening

00:26:42

Speaker 1: here

00:26:43

Speaker 1: and that with, you know,

00:26:44

Speaker 2: With a sample script or two

00:26:45

Speaker 1: in your back pocket

00:26:47

Speaker 2: that this can easily

00:26:48

Speaker 1: become something that you you both feel really confident

00:26:51

Speaker 2: about delivering

00:26:52

Speaker 1: and that hopefully

00:26:53

Speaker 2: will really result in the other person,

00:26:55

Speaker 1: both getting it, understanding what line they have just crossed

00:26:59

Speaker 1: and not feeling terribly bad about

00:27:01

Speaker 2: having having

00:27:02

Speaker 1: done so, not not immediately feeling like they've just made the biggest

00:27:05

Speaker 2: wrong on earth. And

00:27:06

Speaker 1: I just think there's a lot of good etiquette at playing here. So

00:27:09

Speaker 2: thank you so much

00:27:10

Speaker 1: for bringing us this question. Getting a chance to explore it and your perspectives. We really, really appreciate it. This is the story of reproduction,

00:27:20

Speaker 1: a story which any parent should fully understand, not only to ensure the arrival of a healthy child,

00:27:27

Speaker 1: but also to cope with the sensitive minds of Children,

00:27:30

Speaker 1: your Children throughout successive stages. In their constant search for knowledge

00:27:36

Speaker 1: on your answers

00:27:37

Speaker 1: may well depend the physical and emotional health of future generations.

00:27:45

Speaker 2: Our next

00:27:46

Speaker 1: question is

00:27:47

Speaker 2: delightfully

00:27:48

Speaker 1: about editing etiquette.

00:27:51

Speaker 2: Hi

00:27:52

Speaker 1: lizzie and dan, I am a

00:27:53

Speaker 2: member of an online group that includes writers who post

00:27:56

Speaker 1: on an anonymous

00:27:58

Speaker 2: amateur writing site.

00:28:00

Speaker 1: Many of us send our work to one or

00:28:01

Speaker 2: more fellow members for proof reading before we post on the site.

00:28:05

Speaker 2: There may

00:28:05

Speaker 1: be a bit of friendly back and

00:28:07

Speaker 2: forth in the document about

00:28:08

Speaker 1: the edits, but the norm is that any suggestion can

00:28:11

Speaker 2: be accepted or rejected without hurt feelings.

00:28:14

Speaker 2: I

00:28:14

Speaker 1: have become online friends with a member.

00:28:16

Speaker 2: I'll call her mary whose

00:28:18

Speaker 1: work I proof read

00:28:19

Speaker 2: every time I

00:28:20

Speaker 1: edit I point out a certain

00:28:21

Speaker 2: type of punctuation error that

00:28:23

Speaker 1: she never

00:28:24

Speaker 2: corrects. She is pointedly

00:28:26

Speaker 1: ignoring

00:28:27

Speaker 2: this rule. Given that she attends

00:28:28

Speaker 1: to my other punctuation

00:28:30

Speaker 2: edits.

00:28:31

Speaker 2: I'm pretty

00:28:31

Speaker 1: sure that she simply

00:28:32

Speaker 2: misunderstands the

00:28:33

Speaker 1: rule. After editing her

00:28:35

Speaker 2: last work, I did some

00:28:36

Speaker 1: research to make

00:28:37

Speaker 2: sure there isn't some sort of regional

00:28:39

Speaker 1: variation or

00:28:40

Speaker 2: alternate convention. I wasn't

00:28:41

Speaker 1: aware of, nope,

00:28:44

Speaker 2: my dilemma is this do I

00:28:45

Speaker 1: continue editing these

00:28:47

Speaker 2: errors? If so, I feel the need

00:28:49

Speaker 1: to add some explanation since she

00:28:51

Speaker 2: clearly thinks that she is correct

00:28:53

Speaker 1: and I am wrong.

00:28:54

Speaker 2: I have struggled

00:28:55

Speaker 1: with how to do this

00:28:56

Speaker 2: inserting a link to the rule, feels very rude. I have tried

00:29:00

Speaker 1: to come up with a humorous

00:29:01

Speaker 2: way to approach this. Something like

00:29:03

Speaker 2: you're

00:29:03

Speaker 1: such a punctuation

00:29:05

Speaker 2: maverick.

00:29:06

Speaker 2: I know that not all writers are as concerned about errors as I am. But mary is more meticulous than many.

00:29:12

Speaker 2: I'm afraid. She'll be embarrassed to find out that she has been making this error for so long.

00:29:17

Speaker 2: But on the other hand, I wanted to

00:29:19

Speaker 1: make an informed decision

00:29:20

Speaker 2: about whether to flout convention.

00:29:22

Speaker 2: I know that I am mightily distracted by errors like this. When I read others writing.

00:29:28

Speaker 2: I have thought about editing this error once more with a friendly humorous comment and then ignoring similar errors in the future.

00:29:36

Speaker 2: That will be extremely hard for me to do unless I make it clear that I am overlooking these intentionally.

00:29:42

Speaker 2: I could comment something like the convention is X. X. X.

00:29:46

Speaker 2: But you might want to be unconventional if so I'll leave these as they are in the future.

00:29:52

Speaker 2: Advice

00:29:53

Speaker 2: cheers

00:29:54

Speaker 2: Beverly.

00:29:56

Speaker 1: Oh Beverly. I feel like I have to get dan to stop me from having

00:30:01

Speaker 2: a conversation

00:30:03

Speaker 1: in this answer the editing etiquette in general because

00:30:09

Speaker 2: we had

00:30:10

Speaker 1: such a learning curve. The two of us over

00:30:13

Speaker 2: The past two years

00:30:14

Speaker 1: working on the big book, it was the first time,

00:30:16

Speaker 1: I mean you you had read higher etiquette and gave me really great notes on it. But I still felt like the editing editing came pretty

00:30:23

Speaker 2: hard from Peter and

00:30:24

Speaker 1: Tricia My parents on that one.

00:30:26

Speaker 2: This was

00:30:27

Speaker 1: the first one where it was like I was really meeting dan as an editor

00:30:32

Speaker 1: in our world, it was like a new role and and

00:30:35

Speaker 2: we had to figure out like

00:30:38

Speaker 1: how how harsh could you

00:30:39

Speaker 2: be, how gentle could you be? How hard do you need to be when you have to make a point because you really think you're right

00:30:47

Speaker 1: and you really think

00:30:48

Speaker 2: it's not well written the way it is now

00:30:51

Speaker 1: and and

00:30:52

Speaker 2: How do you handle the person on the other end? You just spent like two

00:30:56

Speaker 1: Months, words a day

00:30:58

Speaker 2: writing this thing and put

00:31:00

Speaker 1: in so much effort. Like

00:31:01

Speaker 2: I feel like because you did

00:31:03

Speaker 1: a really great job

00:31:04

Speaker 2: jumping in and being an editor on on what I will say is definitely like the,

00:31:10

Speaker 1: the heaviest,

00:31:11

Speaker 2: the most important like work I have ever been a part of creating

00:31:16

Speaker 2: and I think

00:31:17

Speaker 1: that it was really

00:31:18

Speaker 2: impressive to see how wonderfully gently you held me and then how

00:31:24

Speaker 1: comfortable you got. And I

00:31:25

Speaker 2: had to ask for some of the gentleness back but it

00:31:28

Speaker 1: was like,

00:31:29

Speaker 2: it was it was a fascinating

00:31:31

Speaker 1: time for us. Just real

00:31:33

Speaker 2: quick dan. What were your thoughts on on

00:31:35

Speaker 1: all the editing that

00:31:36

Speaker 2: we've done and thinking about editing etiquette

00:31:38

Speaker 1: in general.

00:31:39

Speaker 2: Only that it was a really big learning process for me to, as you pointed out, I was newer to that

00:31:46

Speaker 2: sort of level of intensity with a writing project and

00:31:51

Speaker 2: I appreciated your

00:31:51

Speaker 1: patients getting me up

00:31:53

Speaker 2: to speed and your willingness to

00:31:56

Speaker 2: sort of pushed some of those levels higher and lower until we found what worked what was a good process for this book And I don't think that there are any hard and fast rules except that you treat each other with a lot of respect in the process. And

00:32:10

Speaker 2: in this question I'm seeing so much of that an acknowledgement that writing styles really vary that there are all kinds of valid reasons to make all kinds of valid choices.

00:32:21

Speaker 1: And at the same

00:32:22

Speaker 2: time that as a good editor, you want to be sure that people understand the choices that they're making and that you're both clear with each other about

00:32:31

Speaker 2: what you're seeing and how you're sharing it and that is it is not easy. I was I said this was a delightful question at the start

00:32:40

Speaker 1: and I really found it

00:32:42

Speaker 2: delightful because it is it's it's it's such a personal question and there

00:32:46

Speaker 1: is so much etiquette

00:32:46

Speaker 2: involved in how you care for each other

00:32:49

Speaker 2: as you do critique and offer feedback. And it's a theme that comes up in our business etiquette training is a

00:32:54

Speaker 1: lot

00:32:54

Speaker 1: that

00:32:55

Speaker 2: good colleagues know how to give critical feedback, know how to help someone else

00:33:00

Speaker 2: get better at something that they want to get better at.

00:33:03

Speaker 1: And it's it's

00:33:04

Speaker 2: a it's a real skill. So what do you think, what do

00:33:06

Speaker 1: you what do you think is going to work

00:33:07

Speaker 2: in this case? I think that Beverly is really smart

00:33:11

Speaker 1: to recognize

00:33:12

Speaker 2: that this is is

00:33:14

Speaker 2: a

00:33:15

Speaker 1: a that she's done her background work and she's

00:33:17

Speaker 2: gone and looked up to see if there

00:33:18

Speaker 1: are other ways that this

00:33:19

Speaker 2: particular grammar punctuation

00:33:21

Speaker 1: rule applies.

00:33:23

Speaker 1: You

00:33:23

Speaker 2: know, like some people use the oxford comma some people don't um I think it's um it's important to recognize that that due diligence has kind of already happened at this point

00:33:33

Speaker 2: and

00:33:34

Speaker 1: also

00:33:35

Speaker 2: that this is a consistent and repeated error. This isn't just a mistake like this

00:33:41

Speaker 1: person, that

00:33:42

Speaker 2: mary's work

00:33:43

Speaker 1: that mary has just

00:33:44

Speaker 2: like, oops, I didn't catch

00:33:46

Speaker 1: that one, it's like

00:33:47

Speaker 2: it's noticeably repeated, that this particular

00:33:50

Speaker 1: punctuation

00:33:52

Speaker 2: edit does not get

00:33:53

Speaker 1: accepted

00:33:54

Speaker 1: and

00:33:55

Speaker 2: I think that I would be in a place of

00:33:59

Speaker 1: suggesting that

00:34:00

Speaker 2: the best thing to do is to keep making

00:34:03

Speaker 1: the edit because

00:34:05

Speaker 2: you've been asked to proof read from your

00:34:07

Speaker 1: perspective and I think

00:34:09

Speaker 2: that's you doing your part to

00:34:11

Speaker 1: its fullest.

00:34:12

Speaker 2: And at the same

00:34:13

Speaker 1: time I would also

00:34:14

Speaker 2: think that having noticed so many times that this particular edit does not get accepted, that I would feel comfortable asking like, hey, I'm just

00:34:22

Speaker 1: curious, I've

00:34:24

Speaker 2: noticed that this particular one doesn't get picked up. Is there any reason

00:34:27

Speaker 1: for that?

00:34:28

Speaker 1: And that also

00:34:29

Speaker 2: leads you to be able to either accept her

00:34:31

Speaker 1: reasoning and not

00:34:33

Speaker 2: make the correction in the future if that's what the

00:34:36

Speaker 1: two of you decide is

00:34:36

Speaker 2: best

00:34:37

Speaker 2: or it lets you more openly communicate the fact that this

00:34:42

Speaker 2: particular edit doesn't get

00:34:44

Speaker 1: made and you can

00:34:45

Speaker 2: also decide whether or

00:34:46

Speaker 1: not you're going to keep making it

00:34:48

Speaker 2: with her. Like do you want me to stop making that

00:34:50

Speaker 1: correction since

00:34:51

Speaker 2: it's not one that gets accepted,

00:34:53

Speaker 1: it might give her

00:34:54

Speaker 2: a chance to explain to you why

00:34:57

Speaker 1: she's not accepting

00:34:58

Speaker 2: that particular edit? And I think

00:35:00

Speaker 1: that then

00:35:01

Speaker 2: opens up a potential for you

00:35:03

Speaker 1: to be able to submit a link

00:35:04

Speaker 2: to her as a counter suggestion and just say, you know, like

00:35:07

Speaker 2: I totally hear your

00:35:09

Speaker 1: perspective,

00:35:09

Speaker 2: this is where I was coming from. I was using this particular guide or this particular

00:35:15

Speaker 1: rule

00:35:16

Speaker 2: and that might get you to the place of that link,

00:35:18

Speaker 1: I'm also going to go out

00:35:19

Speaker 2: on a limb and just say, I don't think the

00:35:20

Speaker 1: link is that bad

00:35:21

Speaker 2: Caitlin catch them. Included a ton of links in the first round of editing that we got back from her and they were

00:35:28

Speaker 1: so

00:35:28

Speaker 2: useful. I really appreciated them. They helped me

00:35:32

Speaker 1: understand

00:35:33

Speaker 2: different perspectives, they helped me get at what we're

00:35:37

Speaker 1: really good

00:35:38

Speaker 2: resources. So

00:35:40

Speaker 1: sometimes that link

00:35:41

Speaker 2: sharing isn't always like, ha

00:35:43

Speaker 1: ha see I'm

00:35:44

Speaker 2: right, like it doesn't even come close to

00:35:47

Speaker 1: having that kind of

00:35:47

Speaker 2: attitude.

00:35:48

Speaker 2: It's showing what's supporting, I think the decision

00:35:52

Speaker 1: making that's going on during

00:35:54

Speaker 2: the editing process, which can be really revelatory

00:35:57

Speaker 1: at times. I had the same

00:35:59

Speaker 2: two pronged approach. I love the clarity of

00:36:03

Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be proof reading. I'm supposed to be proof reading from what I understand to be correct writing as well as

00:36:10

Speaker 2: I'm

00:36:11

Speaker 1: imagining some editorial

00:36:12

Speaker 2: contribution, although this sounds like more of a proof read read. And in particular, because of that, I would stick to what I know, and I would also follow the guideline that was outlined right at the top of the question, which is no hurt feelings that people can accept or reject and I would take that to heart as an editor as well or a proof reader.

00:36:30

Speaker 2: And so I'm going

00:36:31

Speaker 1: to continue to make this

00:36:32

Speaker 2: correction because that's the way I understand

00:36:35

Speaker 2: my job as a proof reader and it's it's the correction that I think should be made

00:36:39

Speaker 2: and not worry about it if it's just ignored. If that's a correction that someone doesn't

00:36:43

Speaker 1: make,

00:36:45

Speaker 2: I can also for all of the good reasons that you stay wanting to be sure that this person who who you want to help me the best writer that they can

00:36:53

Speaker 1: be understands

00:36:54

Speaker 2: why you continue to

00:36:55

Speaker 1: suggest it.

00:36:56

Speaker 2: Or

00:36:57

Speaker 2: if you want to honor that you recognize

00:36:59

Speaker 1: that it might be a style choice that they're making.

00:37:02

Speaker 2: That if you stop

00:37:03

Speaker 1: making that edit that you do say something that

00:37:06

Speaker 2: you acknowledge that you're

00:37:07

Speaker 1: doing that so that

00:37:08

Speaker 2: they don't think they're

00:37:08

Speaker 1: counting on you to make

00:37:10

Speaker 2: that kind of proof reading

00:37:11

Speaker 1: correction and you've just decided not to make it for a reason

00:37:15

Speaker 1: that

00:37:15

Speaker 2: that they don't understand

00:37:16

Speaker 1: or aren't aware

00:37:17

Speaker 2: of. So I would

00:37:18

Speaker 1: definitely if

00:37:19

Speaker 2: I was going to stop making it do any of the things that was he suggests

00:37:23

Speaker 1: send that link asked to have a quick conversation

00:37:26

Speaker 2: about it and I don't think that needs to be a

00:37:27

Speaker 1: high, high stakes conversation. I think

00:37:30

Speaker 2: curiosity easy. Exactly. An

00:37:34

Speaker 1: easy ask. I

00:37:35

Speaker 2: was even imagining

00:37:37

Speaker 2: calling it cheekily a personal style

00:37:39

Speaker 1: guide console,

00:37:40

Speaker 2: recognizing

00:37:41

Speaker 1: that having gone to

00:37:42

Speaker 2: style guides to try to get answers to questions before that different publications handle things differently and that some people like

00:37:49

Speaker 1: Oxford commas and some people don't and

00:37:53

Speaker 2: that you could approach

00:37:54

Speaker 1: it as a sort

00:37:55

Speaker 2: of something funny getting a personal style guide set up between the two

00:37:59

Speaker 1: of you and

00:38:00

Speaker 2: this might be a good

00:38:01

Speaker 1: place to start that Beverly

00:38:02

Speaker 2: big applause for the

00:38:04

Speaker 1: awesome work that you and this writing community are doing

00:38:07

Speaker 2: for one another.

00:38:08

Speaker 1: I'm actually, I'm kind of hoping that you might be willing to write in to tell us what the amateur writing site is.

00:38:15

Speaker 1: Some of us on this podcast might be interested

00:38:18

Speaker 2: in joining um quiet

00:38:22

Speaker 1: dan,

00:38:23

Speaker 2: but

00:38:24

Speaker 1: I really, I really do applaud the work that you're doing and I

00:38:27

Speaker 2: think it's really

00:38:28

Speaker 1: cool and really awesome and we hope that our

00:38:31

Speaker 2: advice helps you to

00:38:32

Speaker 1: continue that

00:38:33

Speaker 2: awesome work

00:38:34

Speaker 1: with mary.

00:38:36

Speaker 1: There's a lot to think and talk about on the subject of manners and many good reasons to ask are manners important.

00:38:55

Speaker 1: Our next question is titled gifts for grads. Tis the

00:38:58

Speaker 2: season, graduations

00:39:00

Speaker 1: are everywhere right now.

00:39:02

Speaker 1: Hello, it is graduation

00:39:03

Speaker 2: season and my husband

00:39:05

Speaker 1: and I are beginning to receive graduation announcements from his high school friends

00:39:09

Speaker 2: about their

00:39:10

Speaker 1: Children,

00:39:11

Speaker 2: graduating from high school.

00:39:13

Speaker 1: My husband and I have been married for five years and together for seven. His friends were

00:39:18

Speaker 2: invited to our

00:39:19

Speaker 1: wedding and did attend.

00:39:21

Speaker 1: That is the only time that I have met these friends and I have never met their Children. Adults only wedding.

00:39:27

Speaker 1: His friends were not invited to the engagement party shower

00:39:31

Speaker 2: or bachelor

00:39:32

Speaker 1: bachelorette parties. I asked my husband if he has met the Children that

00:39:36

Speaker 2: we received

00:39:37

Speaker 1: Announcements for and he said he met one when

00:39:40

Speaker 2: they were little

00:39:42

Speaker 1: each christmas since the wedding we send christmas cards to his high school

00:39:46

Speaker 2: friends that were

00:39:47

Speaker 1: invited to our wedding and we received

00:39:49

Speaker 2: christmas cards

00:39:50

Speaker 1: from these friends

00:39:52

Speaker 1: when we receive

00:39:52

Speaker 2: an announcement

00:39:53

Speaker 1: but not an invitation to a party or celebration. Do we need to send a

00:39:57

Speaker 2: card and

00:39:58

Speaker 1: gift if yes

00:40:00

Speaker 2: is $25 reasonable

00:40:02

Speaker 1: to send to someone I have never met

00:40:04

Speaker 1: of the announcements we

00:40:05

Speaker 2: received

00:40:06

Speaker 1: To live out of state and the others live about 45 minutes away. The likelihood of me meeting any of these Children is very slim

00:40:14

Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure the one that has

00:40:16

Speaker 1: met my husband does not

00:40:17

Speaker 2: remember him

00:40:18

Speaker 1: overall. I

00:40:19

Speaker 2: feel that we do not need to

00:40:21

Speaker 1: send anything and if we send

00:40:23

Speaker 2: something we will receive announcements from them with

00:40:25

Speaker 1: a gift expectation for

00:40:27

Speaker 2: the rest of their Children.

00:40:29

Speaker 1: It seems like they sent an announcement to everyone on their christmas list without even checking to see if their Children know the recipient, which I personally do not think is the right thing to do

00:40:39

Speaker 1: admittedly

00:40:40

Speaker 2: I am most put off by the fact

00:40:42

Speaker 1: that one of the announcements was

00:40:43

Speaker 2: addressed to my husband and

00:40:45

Speaker 1: another person they

00:40:46

Speaker 2: got my name wrong

00:40:48

Speaker 1: altogether.

00:40:50

Speaker 1: I know this should not bother me and I'm confident that they do not know about the mistake

00:40:55

Speaker 2: but it does

00:40:56

Speaker 1: annoy me, thank you, hesitant

00:40:58

Speaker 2: gift giver,

00:40:59

Speaker 1: hesitant gift

00:41:00

Speaker 2: giver. Thank you for the

00:41:01

Speaker 1: very timely question

00:41:03

Speaker 2: as we enter this

00:41:04

Speaker 1: graduation season.

00:41:05

Speaker 2: I think it is a perfect

00:41:07

Speaker 1: opportunity to talk

00:41:08

Speaker 2: about

00:41:08

Speaker 2: graduation

00:41:09

Speaker 1: announcement etiquette and

00:41:11

Speaker 2: the expectations or

00:41:13

Speaker 1: that they do or do not need to create in the

00:41:16

Speaker 2: people that receive them. I feel

00:41:17

Speaker 1: like hesitant gift giver is

00:41:18

Speaker 2: gonna appreciate

00:41:19

Speaker 1: everything you're about to say dan. Do you want to give the primer on announcements and their

00:41:24

Speaker 2: attachment or not?

00:41:26

Speaker 1: Two gifts?

00:41:27

Speaker 1: I'd like to and I'd like

00:41:28

Speaker 2: to like you say,

00:41:29

Speaker 1: start from just square one ground zero because I

00:41:32

Speaker 2: think it'll really help with

00:41:33

Speaker 1: the ultimate

00:41:34

Speaker 2: answer

00:41:35

Speaker 2: and the idea behind the graduation

00:41:37

Speaker 1: announcement is that it

00:41:38

Speaker 2: is just an announcement, it is something that you

00:41:41

Speaker 1: are excited about and it's

00:41:42

Speaker 2: news that you want to share and

00:41:44

Speaker 1: the etiquette advice

00:41:45

Speaker 2: around announcements is that you are welcome

00:41:47

Speaker 1: to share that news

00:41:48

Speaker 2: wide and

00:41:49

Speaker 1: far, you can be

00:41:51

Speaker 2: excited about that and it's, it really is ok to use that

00:41:56

Speaker 2: and I understand how it develops over time that wedding guest list address spreadsheet becomes the annual

00:42:03

Speaker 1: christmas holiday

00:42:03

Speaker 2: New Year's card that goes out and then

00:42:07

Speaker 2: also becomes the easy place, it's loaded up in vista print, it's so easy to create the next one and send it

00:42:12

Speaker 1: out the place that

00:42:13

Speaker 2: you do your announcement about a graduation or something else and

00:42:18

Speaker 2: one of the reasons

00:42:19

Speaker 1: that we get to

00:42:20

Speaker 2: say it's okay to send that announcement broadly is that it really is sent with no

00:42:26

Speaker 1: expectation

00:42:27

Speaker 2: even of a reply, it really is just about spreading the news, sharing the news about something that you're really excited about, that you think people might want to know.

00:42:37

Speaker 2: And generally

00:42:38

Speaker 1: speaking the

00:42:39

Speaker 2: response that people have when they receive that

00:42:41

Speaker 1: is, oh, that's so nice.

00:42:42

Speaker 2: It's really nice that they let me know. And I think that's the spirit that

00:42:48

Speaker 2: I want to put in front of our entire audience around

00:42:51

Speaker 2: these kinds of announcements. In reality, it often happens that when that announcement is received, someone feels inspired to reply to it in some way and that is

00:43:04

Speaker 2: while not expected, perfectly appropriate and reasonable. And if that's the way you're feeling about it,

00:43:10

Speaker 2: you can feel good about leaning into that. Many people respond with a card or a little note to the graduate, congratulating them

00:43:18

Speaker 2: if it's someone that you know, a little better or something that you really like to do, you're certainly welcome to send a little gift. And

00:43:26

Speaker 2: I think that a $25 cash gift in a card would make me very excited as a grad. I think that would be a very nice gift and a nice thing to do. But

00:43:37

Speaker 2: it is by no means an expectation. And particularly if you're feeling like you are a little more

00:43:42

Speaker 1: distant and that's not

00:43:44

Speaker 2: something that you're inspired to do.

00:43:46

Speaker 2: I

00:43:46

Speaker 1: don't want to give the impression

00:43:47

Speaker 2: that that's an etiquette expectation or something that,

00:43:51

Speaker 2: that you feel like you should be feeling. It's really just something that if you want to, it's perfectly okay to do, how am I doing lizzie post on the graduation etiquette graduation announcement etiquette?

00:44:02

Speaker 2: I mean I was getting ready to put down my headphones and walk away to the afternoon

00:44:06

Speaker 1: already. That was a

00:44:07

Speaker 2: great answer because I think you've left so much room in there for all

00:44:12

Speaker 1: experiences and and that

00:44:14

Speaker 2: includes hesitant gift givers experience

00:44:17

Speaker 1: where I just

00:44:18

Speaker 2: want to really encourage people.

00:44:19

Speaker 2: It's totally

00:44:20

Speaker 1: okay if you get

00:44:22

Speaker 2: an announcement and you aren't

00:44:23

Speaker 1: inspired to give a gift. I know that sounds grinchy.

00:44:26

Speaker 2: It's not

00:44:27

Speaker 2: for exactly this reason you don't know these kids other than having seen them

00:44:32

Speaker 2: like emerge

00:44:33

Speaker 1: on christmas cards

00:44:34

Speaker 2: each year and grow

00:44:35

Speaker 1: bigger on christmas cards

00:44:36

Speaker 2: each year. Well, it's wonderful that some people feel inspired when in this

00:44:42

Speaker 1: type of situation,

00:44:43

Speaker 2: when they receive

00:44:44

Speaker 1: that announcement

00:44:45

Speaker 2: to then send a gift or send a card,

00:44:47

Speaker 1: you don't have

00:44:48

Speaker 2: to. It's really okay. Not too and we shouldn't feel guilty about that

00:44:53

Speaker 2: if you are inspired. Great, go for it, lean in, but you do not have to, when it comes to just this announcement and I think

00:45:01

Speaker 1: dan your description of

00:45:02

Speaker 2: how we end up on these particular send out lists is just so spot on the nose. Like it just, it is perfect. It really,

00:45:11

Speaker 2: it's, it's exactly

00:45:12

Speaker 1: how it happens. It's also

00:45:14

Speaker 2: How sometimes people get left off the list. Like one

00:45:18

Speaker 1: of your best friends is getting married

00:45:19

Speaker 2: this summer and already knows you won't be able to

00:45:21

Speaker 1: attend the wedding. And so my guess is that you're gonna

00:45:24

Speaker 2: be left off that wedding

00:45:25

Speaker 1: spreadsheet

00:45:26

Speaker 2: that they've got and

00:45:28

Speaker 1: I'll be curious

00:45:28

Speaker 2: if they have to actually

00:45:30

Speaker 1: add you to the spreadsheet for

00:45:32

Speaker 2: the holiday,

00:45:33

Speaker 2: you know the the New year's or the holiday

00:45:36

Speaker 1: card that comes out

00:45:37

Speaker 2: at the end of the year dan. I don't know if you have anything else,

00:45:41

Speaker 1: but I'm thinking the

00:45:41

Speaker 2: one last thing I want

00:45:43

Speaker 1: to encourage

00:45:44

Speaker 2: is is yes, don't worry about that name

00:45:46

Speaker 1: mistake.

00:45:47

Speaker 2: The best way to correct it is to send

00:45:49

Speaker 1: your own card

00:45:50

Speaker 2: back to them with your correct names and hopefully they pick

00:45:54

Speaker 1: up on it. They might

00:45:55

Speaker 2: not,

00:45:56

Speaker 2: it's

00:45:57

Speaker 1: entirely possible

00:45:58

Speaker 2: that when they sent this particular

00:46:00

Speaker 1: thing out, as dan said, it was like a

00:46:02

Speaker 2: spreadsheet that that got hit print in vista print or something like that and therefore

00:46:07

Speaker 1: they didn't look at the whole list to

00:46:09

Speaker 2: update it. Um, it could be

00:46:11

Speaker 1: that you might

00:46:12

Speaker 2: be,

00:46:13

Speaker 1: I don't

00:46:14

Speaker 2: know, I don't know your real name and so a fake name to

00:46:17

Speaker 1: suggest, but

00:46:18

Speaker 2: you might be fake

00:46:19

Speaker 1: name for for

00:46:21

Speaker 2: quite some time. My mom actually joked about that with a particular person in

00:46:25

Speaker 1: their social circle.

00:46:26

Speaker 2: She was always patty and not Patricia. Patricia and she'd never been patty anywhere else in her life. But here,

00:46:33

Speaker 1: so

00:46:34

Speaker 2: I say, let let

00:46:35

Speaker 1: that roll off your

00:46:36

Speaker 2: back as best you can send

00:46:37

Speaker 1: the notes to them

00:46:39

Speaker 2: or the christmas cards to them with your

00:46:41

Speaker 1: correct name and everything. And hopefully at

00:46:43

Speaker 2: some point they pick up

00:46:44

Speaker 1: on the, on the blunder

00:46:45

Speaker 2: if it's terribly

00:46:46

Speaker 1: offensive and

00:46:47

Speaker 2: and really doesn't feel

00:46:48

Speaker 1: good, you can let somebody know. But

00:46:51

Speaker 2: that would be a very

00:46:52

Speaker 1: gentle and very

00:46:53

Speaker 2: friendly and very

00:46:54

Speaker 1: politely worded little note back

00:46:57

Speaker 2: to them, just a heads up.

00:46:58

Speaker 1: I'm actually, you know, Andrea not sarah

00:47:00

Speaker 1: but we do so love hearing from you

00:47:02

Speaker 2: and hope hope to see

00:47:03

Speaker 1: many christmas cards in the

00:47:05

Speaker 2: future and you know, send

00:47:06

Speaker 1: it off.

00:47:07

Speaker 2: But I think that outside of

00:47:08

Speaker 1: that just let that one go. I think that's a good way to

00:47:12

Speaker 2: deal with that issue. And I like

00:47:13

Speaker 1: the idea of thinking of it and

00:47:14

Speaker 2: treating it as something separate. Then the question about how to reply

00:47:18

Speaker 1: to a graduation

00:47:19

Speaker 2: card

00:47:20

Speaker 2: or a graduation announcement.

00:47:22

Speaker 2: I guess my final

00:47:23

Speaker 1: thought on this is really

00:47:25

Speaker 2: a conceptual

00:47:26

Speaker 1: thought. It's a broad thought and that's that whether you

00:47:29

Speaker 2: received that card and you want to send something back or you

00:47:32

Speaker 1: don't

00:47:33

Speaker 1: feel good about

00:47:35

Speaker 2: maybe

00:47:35

Speaker 1: not wanting to send something back

00:47:38

Speaker 2: from the

00:47:38

Speaker 1: perspective that it's really that option, that freedom on your

00:47:42

Speaker 2: part that

00:47:43

Speaker 1: allows the person sending it to send it

00:47:45

Speaker 2: to anybody, they want

00:47:47

Speaker 2: that

00:47:47

Speaker 1: you're really playing your role in this

00:47:50

Speaker 2: case. Well

00:47:51

Speaker 1: whether you decide to or not, the deciding

00:47:54

Speaker 2: or not

00:47:55

Speaker 1: is the thing

00:47:56

Speaker 2: that freeze someone up to send it

00:47:58

Speaker 1: to anybody they want.

00:48:00

Speaker 2: And

00:48:00

Speaker 1: that might be just a different way to think about it.

00:48:02

Speaker 2: That makes it feel

00:48:03

Speaker 1: like not as karma genia thing but as playing your

00:48:06

Speaker 2: part in the larger etiquette equation,

00:48:09

Speaker 1: hesitant

00:48:10

Speaker 2: gift giver. We hope that whatever you decide, this makes you feel less hesitant about your

00:48:15

Speaker 1: choice.

00:48:24

Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

00:48:25

Speaker 1: Thank

00:48:26

Speaker 2: you for your questions.

00:48:27

Speaker 1: Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at the Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463.

00:48:40

Speaker 1: You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook were awesome etiquette. Just remember, use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:49:04

Speaker 1: If you're digging this awesome etiquette podcast,

00:49:06

Speaker 2: please consider becoming

00:49:08

Speaker 1: a sustaining member by

00:49:09

Speaker 2: visiting us at

00:49:10

Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

00:49:13

Speaker 2: You'll get an ads free

00:49:15

Speaker 1: version of the show and

00:49:16

Speaker 2: access to bonus questions and content

00:49:18

Speaker 1: including live calls with dan and myself.

00:49:22

Speaker 1: Plus

00:49:22

Speaker 2: you'll feel great knowing that you

00:49:24

Speaker 1: helped to keep

00:49:25

Speaker 2: awesome etiquette on the air

00:49:27

Speaker 1: and to those of you who are

00:49:28

Speaker 2: already sustaining members. Thank you so much

00:49:31

Speaker 1: for your support.

00:49:32

Speaker 2: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer and the topics we

00:49:38

Speaker 1: cover. Today. We

00:49:39

Speaker 2: have feedback from Katie on baby registries.

00:49:42

Speaker 2: Hi dan and lizzie. I wanted to write in with a little bit of feedback from your show with the listener asking about ordering from a baby registry.

00:49:50

Speaker 2: My daughter is about to turn one and when we created our registry last year, I was aware beforehand that you could search for X. Y. Z. Baby name registry on google and it would pull up the registry because of that. In my mind, I always just considered them public verse specifically for shower guests to browse

00:50:09

Speaker 2: funnily enough, the very first baby gift we received off our registry was from someone who was not invited to a shower.

00:50:17

Speaker 1: This gift came

00:50:17

Speaker 2: from one of my husband's friends and his wife and arrived at our door in the mail with a kind note.

00:50:23

Speaker 1: They gifted us a stroller

00:50:24

Speaker 2: attachment which of you are familiar with baby gear is a very generous and useful gift. I did not find it strange at all that they sent us a gift from the registry even though we had not sent them a link.

00:50:36

Speaker 2: I actually thought the

00:50:37

Speaker 1: opposite to

00:50:38

Speaker 2: me. It felt like they really cared because they took the time to find the registry and select something that we wanted and needed.

00:50:45

Speaker 2: They made me feel very loved and like these friends had gone above and beyond to send a gift.

00:50:50

Speaker 2: Hope this helps give another perspective from someone who was on the receiving end of this question. Thanks Katie

00:50:58

Speaker 2: Katie, thank you so much for the feedback.

00:51:00

Speaker 1: And yes, it does give great perspective. I'm so glad to hear that

00:51:05

Speaker 2: people

00:51:05

Speaker 1: sort of taking that

00:51:07

Speaker 2: opportunity and going for it really impacted you in a positive way. It's awesome to hear

00:51:11

Speaker 1: that it landed just

00:51:12

Speaker 2: right.

00:51:14

Speaker 2: I tell you, it's a reminder for me, lizzie Post. I'm often giving the advice in professional context that anything you do online is potentially public and potentially permanent. And it's a great reminder that if you approach everything you do online with that spirit, there will be less surprises in your life. That's true, that's true. Thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please do keep them coming. You can send your feedback or update two awesome etiquette, Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463.

00:51:57

Speaker 2: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going

00:52:02

Speaker 1: to talk about

00:52:03

Speaker 2: And I just can't believe it. I'm so excited. Garden parties from Emily Post 1922 edition of etiquette.

00:52:10

Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much I'm wishing that we had

00:52:13

Speaker 2: something called

00:52:14

Speaker 1: a garden party in the

00:52:15

Speaker 2: In the 2022 edition of it at this point.

00:52:18

Speaker 1: But

00:52:19

Speaker 2: that that will be the next version, the 21st edition. So this does come out of Emily Post 1922 edition. It can be found on pages 1 74 and 1 75. For those who like to follow along

00:52:31

Speaker 2: and it is indeed titled the garden party. And

00:52:34

Speaker 1: I've got to say

00:52:35

Speaker 2: the first two sentences. Well, really the second sentence just absolutely puts the biggest smile on my face. So

00:52:42

Speaker 1: here we go.

00:52:43

Speaker 2: The garden party.

00:52:45

Speaker 1: The garden

00:52:45

Speaker 2: party is merely

00:52:46

Speaker 1: an afternoon

00:52:47

Speaker 2: tea out of doors.

00:52:49

Speaker 2: It may be as elaborate as a sit down wedding breakfast

00:52:53

Speaker 1: or as simple

00:52:54

Speaker 2: as a miniature strawberry festival.

00:52:57

Speaker 2: Sorry, I just love that.

00:53:00

Speaker 2: At an

00:53:00

Speaker 1: elaborate one

00:53:01

Speaker 2: in the rainy

00:53:02

Speaker 1: section of our country,

00:53:03

Speaker 2: a tent or marquee

00:53:05

Speaker 1: with sides that can

00:53:06

Speaker 2: be easily drawn up in fine weather

00:53:09

Speaker 1: and dropped in

00:53:10

Speaker 2: rain and with a

00:53:11

Speaker 1: good dancing floor is

00:53:13

Speaker 2: often put up on the lawn or next to the veranda

00:53:16

Speaker 2: so that in

00:53:17

Speaker 1: case of storm

00:53:18

Speaker 2: people will not be

00:53:19

Speaker 1: obliged to go out of doors.

00:53:22

Speaker 2: The orchestra is placed within or near open

00:53:26

Speaker 1: sides of the tent so

00:53:27

Speaker 2: that it can be heard on the lawn and

00:53:30

Speaker 1: veranda as

00:53:31

Speaker 2: well as where they are dancing

00:53:33

Speaker 2: or instead of a t with dancing if most guests are to be older, there may be a concert or other form of professional

00:53:42

Speaker 1: entertainment

00:53:43

Speaker 2: on the lawn. There are

00:53:45

Speaker 1: usually several

00:53:47

Speaker 2: huge, bright colored umbrella tents and under each a table and a group of chairs,

00:53:53

Speaker 2: and here and there numerous small

00:53:56

Speaker 1: tables and chairs.

00:53:57

Speaker 2: four, although the afternoon tea is always put in the dining

00:54:01

Speaker 1: room, footman

00:54:02

Speaker 2: or maids carry varieties of food out on large trays to the lawn,

00:54:07

Speaker 1: and the

00:54:08

Speaker 2: guests hold plates on their knees and stand glasses

00:54:12

Speaker 1: on tables

00:54:13

Speaker 2: nearby

00:54:14

Speaker 2: at a

00:54:14

Speaker 1: garden party, the food is often

00:54:16

Speaker 2: much more prodigal than at a T

00:54:18

Speaker 1: in town. Sometimes

00:54:20

Speaker 2: it is as elaborate as a wedding reception.

00:54:23

Speaker 2: In addition to hot tea and chocolate,

00:54:26

Speaker 2: there is either iced coffee

00:54:28

Speaker 1: or a

00:54:29

Speaker 2: very melted cafe parfait or

00:54:32

Speaker 1: frosted

00:54:33

Speaker 2: chocolate in cups.

00:54:35

Speaker 2: There

00:54:35

Speaker 1: are also pictures of various

00:54:37

Speaker 2: drinks that have rather

00:54:38

Speaker 1: mysterious ingredients,

00:54:40

Speaker 2: but are all very

00:54:41

Speaker 1: much iced and embellished with crushed fruits and mint leaves.

00:54:46

Speaker 2: There are often

00:54:47

Speaker 1: berries with cream, especially in strawberry season on an estate

00:54:50

Speaker 2: that prides itself on those of its

00:54:53

Speaker 1: own growing,

00:54:54

Speaker 2: as well as

00:54:55

Speaker 1: the inevitable

00:54:56

Speaker 2: array of fancy sandwiches

00:54:58

Speaker 1: and cakes

00:54:59

Speaker 2: at Ty's and

00:55:00

Speaker 1: musicals and all

00:55:02

Speaker 2: entertainments

00:55:03

Speaker 1: where the host herself is obliged to stand at

00:55:06

Speaker 2: the door, her

00:55:07

Speaker 1: husband or a

00:55:08

Speaker 2: daughter. If the

00:55:09

Speaker 1: hostess is old enough and lucky enough to have one or else

00:55:13

Speaker 2: a sister or a very close

00:55:15

Speaker 1: friend

00:55:15

Speaker 2: should look after the

00:55:16

Speaker 1: guests

00:55:17

Speaker 1: to see that any

00:55:18

Speaker 2: who are strangers are not helplessly

00:55:21

Speaker 1: wandering about alone and that elderly ladies are given

00:55:25

Speaker 2: seats if there is to be a performance or

00:55:28

Speaker 1: to show any other courtesies

00:55:30

Speaker 2: that

00:55:30

Speaker 1: devolve upon

00:55:31

Speaker 2: a hostess.

00:55:33

Speaker 1: I just love the mini strawberry festival. It had me, had me from

00:55:37

Speaker 2: miniature strawberry and

00:55:39

Speaker 1: festival, I was all ready to say, I love gardens, I love

00:55:43

Speaker 2: parties, but then

00:55:44

Speaker 1: I started hearing the strawberry

00:55:45

Speaker 2: festival stuff and I said

00:55:47

Speaker 1: I love strawberry festivals. It

00:55:51

Speaker 2: is, we

00:55:52

Speaker 1: are, we are about to be in that season here in Vermont and it's going to be so, so delicious. I picture many a pink and finger,

00:55:59

Speaker 1: but I love this description of outdoor entertaining.

00:56:03

Speaker 1: Of course few of us have verandas

00:56:06

Speaker 2: and I'm not sure

00:56:07

Speaker 1: I know any friends who would hire an orchestra for their garden party. You know, most are gonna are gonna put something on the

00:56:15

Speaker 2: old speaker and aim it

00:56:16

Speaker 1: aim it out towards the backyard. But I think

00:56:19

Speaker 2: that it

00:56:20

Speaker 2: it

00:56:20

Speaker 1: did set such a wonderful reminder of

00:56:22

Speaker 2: outdoor entertaining,

00:56:24

Speaker 1: of

00:56:24

Speaker 2: creating space that is

00:56:26

Speaker 1: quasi nature,

00:56:28

Speaker 2: quasi

00:56:29

Speaker 1: curated, but that all together creates a wonderful environment to be in. And I love the addition at the end

00:56:36

Speaker 2: that as the host,

00:56:37

Speaker 1: you're supposed to really be in that

00:56:39

Speaker 2: greeting position

00:56:40

Speaker 1: and you're sort of co host or second

00:56:43

Speaker 2: in command

00:56:44

Speaker 1: uh should

00:56:45

Speaker 2: be there to help

00:56:46

Speaker 1: any guests. And I love the

00:56:47

Speaker 2: note especially for the guests

00:56:49

Speaker 1: who might be strangers and might not have anyone

00:56:52

Speaker 2: to talk to because

00:56:53

Speaker 1: that gets so right into

00:56:55

Speaker 2: the heart of hospitality.

00:56:56

Speaker 1: Of making your guests feel comfortable and not

00:56:58

Speaker 2: just

00:56:59

Speaker 1: assuming that they're going to completely take care of themselves.

00:57:03

Speaker 2: Lizzie Post. I would not

00:57:04

Speaker 1: sell yourself short while. You might not have an orchestra.

00:57:07

Speaker 2: I could

00:57:08

Speaker 1: totally see you

00:57:09

Speaker 2: with some musicians

00:57:10

Speaker 1: stationed appropriately

00:57:13

Speaker 2: about the

00:57:13

Speaker 1: property here or their buddies with guitars.

00:57:18

Speaker 2: Probably

00:57:19

Speaker 1: more likely maybe a harpist here or there for the right occasion. Wish. Wouldn't that be exciting?

00:57:28

Speaker 2: Oh that

00:57:29

Speaker 1: is a that is a fun

00:57:30

Speaker 2: read lizzie post. Thank you for finding it for

00:57:32

Speaker 1: us and what a great way to start a summer day like this.

00:57:34

Speaker 2: Heading home to do some land sculpting.

00:57:38

Speaker 1: We hope

00:57:38

Speaker 2: this inspires all of

00:57:40

Speaker 1: you to whether it is your own backyard and immaculate a state that you have access to or the local park that you get outside and do some entertaining in the great outdoors.

00:57:52

Speaker 1: A T. Is only a formal way of entertaining and showing respect to others. Etiquette itself is simply the way one polite person shows consideration for another

00:58:04

Speaker 1: june's share of preparing for the T. Is the making out of invitation.

00:58:08

Speaker 1: But she is running into problems

00:58:10

Speaker 1: and would welcome a little help.

00:58:16

Speaker 1: We like to

00:58:16

Speaker 2: end our show on a high note. So

00:58:18

Speaker 1: we turn to you to hear

00:58:19

Speaker 2: about the good etiquette

00:58:20

Speaker 1: you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can

00:58:23

Speaker 2: come in so many

00:58:24

Speaker 1: forms today we have a salute from Jessica.

00:58:28

Speaker 1: Hi,

00:58:29

Speaker 1: it was my daughter's

00:58:30

Speaker 2: first birthday

00:58:31

Speaker 1: party and I ordered

00:58:32

Speaker 2: a cake from a local

00:58:33

Speaker 1: grocery store on

00:58:34

Speaker 2: their website.

00:58:36

Speaker 2: When

00:58:36

Speaker 1: I went to pick up the cake on the morning of the party,

00:58:39

Speaker 2: I discovered that

00:58:40

Speaker 1: they had completely gotten it wrong, wrong

00:58:44

Speaker 2: color, wrong

00:58:45

Speaker 1: decoration, wrong cake type, all

00:58:47

Speaker 2: of it. They

00:58:48

Speaker 1: were very apologetic and didn't charge me for the cake. But I was so incredibly

00:58:53

Speaker 2: disappointed that I

00:58:55

Speaker 1: was in

00:58:55

Speaker 1: tears.

00:58:57

Speaker 1: Luckily

00:58:57

Speaker 2: my awesome

00:58:58

Speaker 1: husband called

00:58:59

Speaker 2: another grocery store to see if they

00:59:01

Speaker 1: could help with a replacement cake. When the first store said there was nothing that they could do

00:59:07

Speaker 2: and

00:59:07

Speaker 1: the second store said that they could

00:59:09

Speaker 2: help. He immediately

00:59:11

Speaker 1: drove to the second store and told the cake decorator the situation. She told him that

00:59:16

Speaker 2: she could bake and

00:59:17

Speaker 1: decorate the cake the way

00:59:19

Speaker 2: We wanted it by two p.

00:59:20

Speaker 1: M. That day

00:59:22

Speaker 1: when my husband

00:59:23

Speaker 2: drove back to the store

00:59:24

Speaker 1: that afternoon he found

00:59:25

Speaker 2: the cake was

00:59:26

Speaker 1: perfect. He

00:59:28

Speaker 2: tried to leave

00:59:28

Speaker 1: the cake decorator

00:59:30

Speaker 2: a generous tip

00:59:30

Speaker 1: and she wouldn't take it. Instead suggesting

00:59:33

Speaker 2: that he

00:59:33

Speaker 1: go by your wife some flowers. So this etiquette salute

00:59:38

Speaker 2: goes out to

00:59:39

Speaker 1: lila the cake decorator

00:59:41

Speaker 2: at the Qfc

00:59:42

Speaker 1: on Bothell Everette

00:59:44

Speaker 2: Highway

00:59:44

Speaker 1: in Bothell

00:59:45

Speaker 2: Washington. I hope I'm

00:59:46

Speaker 1: pronouncing that right.

00:59:48

Speaker 1: It

00:59:48

Speaker 2: may have been a small

00:59:49

Speaker 1: thing for her to do. But she absolutely saved my baby's first

00:59:53

Speaker 2: birthday and I am so eternally

00:59:56

Speaker 1: grateful

00:59:57

Speaker 2: Jessica

00:59:58

Speaker 1: Jessica. Thank you

00:59:59

Speaker 2: so much for the salute and I'm so happy that the first birthday party went. Well. I know it's a big deal. Both for kids and for parents.

01:00:07

Speaker 1: Thank you so much

01:00:08

Speaker 2: for submitting this salute, Jessica

01:00:11

Speaker 2: and thank you for listening.

01:00:15

Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on Patreon, please do connect with us and share this show with friends, family and coworkers. However you like to share podcasts, you can send us questions feedback and salutes by email to awesome etiquette. Emily Post dot com

01:00:33

Speaker 2: By phone. You can leave us a message or text at (802) 858 kind. That's 8 028585463

01:00:40

Speaker 2: on twitter. We're at Emily Post inst on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook we're both awesome etiquette and the Emily Post Institute. Please consider becoming a member of the awesome etiquette community on patreon. You can find out more about this by visiting patreon dot com slash awesome etiquette.

01:01:00

Speaker 2: You can also

01:01:01

Speaker 1: subscribe to the ads

01:01:02

Speaker 2: version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app and please consider leaving us a review. It helps our show ranking, which helps more people find awesome etiquette. Our show is edited by Kris Albertine and assistant produced by Brigitte it.

01:01:30

Speaker 2: Okay