Episode 412 - Guest of Honor

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy,

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Speaker 1: host and hostess. They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person, real friendliness.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to awesome etiquette

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Speaker 2: where we explore modern etiquette through the lens of consideration, respect and honesty

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Speaker 1: on today's very special show, we take your questions on avoiding a big send off when switching jobs. Which way the toilet paper should go considering others when hosting a shower and talking to people about

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Speaker 1: pimples

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Speaker 2: for awesome etiquette sustaining members. Our question is about taking the leftovers when someone else pays for your meal

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Speaker 1: plus your most excellent feedback etiquette salute and a postscript on joining the post family

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Speaker 2: All that's coming up,

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Speaker 1: awesome etiquette comes to you from the studios of our home offices in Vermont and is proud to be produced by the Emily Post Institute

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Speaker 2: I'm setting

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Speaker 1: and I'm dan post sending and this is a very special episode of awesome etiquette. I get to welcome back my lovely, awesome, intelligent,

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Speaker 1: emotionally

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Speaker 2: together

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Speaker 1: wife to help me out with the show. Today, Lizzie is in Martha's vineyard and we hope she's having an awesome time but welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. It's always fun to do this. I'm kind of glad that Lizzie was having a great time on a vacation and I have the chance to to practice my skills again.

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Speaker 1: Well this is not your first visit to awesome etiquette and

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Speaker 1: I was telling you just before the show started and I wanted to tell all of our listeners that I've been transferring the show archive from one hosting platform to another over the last week and in the course of moving over 400 episodes, I've been listening to a lot of awesome etiquette along the way. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of my favorite shows from the archive are the shows where we have guests. I really enjoy the shows where Bill Post joins us, where my mother Cindy po sending my uncle Peter post join us. But the shows that I really love the most that are different than our usual shows are, and my apologies to all of our incredible guests who also do great shows, but

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Speaker 2: are the shows that

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Speaker 1: you do, and it's just you were the first name that jumped to my mind when

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Speaker 1: it became apparent that lizzie wasn't gonna be able to do this today. And I thought to myself, it's even a little bit of an opportunity because it would be so much fun to get you back on the mic.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm flattered. It's it's kind of a fun, rare experience for me to play what kind of like celebrity to be on a podcast that is projected out to so many people.

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Speaker 2: It's it's definitely not something I do in my day to day life. So it feels pretty special.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hope you do feel flattered and I hope you do feel a little special because you should also know that we hear from a lot of our audience that they love it when you join the show, Both because they hear so much about you from me, obviously completely infatuated, but also because you bring a

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Speaker 1: an emotionally coherent perspective. You have a career in mental health, as a therapist, as a mental health counselor, and a lot of what we do here on awesome etiquette is about self regulation, managing expectations and disappointments and approaching social obligations, but trying to do it in a way that's that's coherent emotionally, both for ourselves and for the other people that we're dealing with. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's a really valuable perspective that you bring to this show. So I'm I'm looking forward to getting a dose of that as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much. I mean, I think it's so interesting the ability to I mean just that the chance, the realization that that I have the power to affect my relationships both with myself and with other people and that I can positively change and therefore my relationships will be better just by me being better at that. That's a very empowering

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Speaker 2: position to take in one's life. So I'm very lucky the work that I get to do and I'm very, very, very grateful to pass on anything that I've learned to anybody who's able to benefit.

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Speaker 2: So, like I said, great to be here

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Speaker 1: well in the spirit of it being exciting and fulfilling and worthwhile. We have some listener questions to get to do you want to get started,

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Speaker 2: Let's do it,

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Speaker 1: Let's do

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Speaker 2: it.

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Speaker 1: Awesome etiquette is here to answer your questions. You can email them to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com or you can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram. We are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook we are the Emily Post Institute. Just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Our first question office obstacle Hi lizzie and dan. So grateful for you both and the consistently thoughtful and what I consider gold standard advice from you to etiquette experts. I have a work situation where I'm moving offices to a new location after more than a decade. It's the same organization I'll be working at but a new set of co workers etcetera. My current co workers want to throw me a dinner party

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Speaker 2: or a backyard barbecue before I go. I find myself not particularly enthused by the idea. I just want to move forward and not necessarily wanting to rehash old times plus Covid is on the rise in our area. So I'm not sure if a gathering is wise and I'm really only close to a couple of people at work who I would plan to see regardless. But I also feel conflicted, is it the proper thing to give others the chance to say their goodbyes and gain closure?

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Speaker 2: What if anything do I owe to my coworkers for old times sake. Thanks for your help leaving on a jet plane.

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Speaker 1: I love the sign off, I can't hear it without hearing the song. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 2: definitely

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Speaker 2: we can start singing it,

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Speaker 1: let's save everybody the

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Speaker 1: the, the enjoyment. But

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Speaker 2: the

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Speaker 1: other question I wanted to ask you before we got into our answer is sound like anyone else, you know, hesitant to go out to gatherings just generally not wanting to be a joiner.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the chance to avoid a gathering is their way.

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Speaker 1: Well I would acknowledge it myself, but I thought it was appropriate for you to acknowledge it on my behalf, being the one who's largely responsible for keeping me from going into a social shell and not coming out for a long time, but

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Speaker 2: I definitely play that role. I pull you out and and make you go hang out with people and then you always love it and don't want to leave,

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Speaker 2: but I have to pull you out every time you really

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Speaker 1: do it. It's kind of the perfect setup for the answer that I want to give here, which is that I want to play that role for leaving on a jet plane just a little bit and I can almost feel an awareness of the, the answer that would be the answer you would get on awesome etiquette in the way the question is asked, it's almost like could you, could you give me the encouragement, could you tell me to what extent I have to? But I'm,

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Speaker 1: I'm hesitant and I'm looking for some advice that might convince me that it's worthwhile and the etiquette thought that I sort of want to ground my answer in here is the idea that transitions are really important. And often times when we're thinking about etiquette, we think about the arrival, the welcome, the greeting, the introduction,

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Speaker 1: but equally important are the goodbyes. The part ing's the gratitude and thanks that will conclude something well and giving yourself an opportunity to execute all those transitions. Well, I think is a great thing to keep in mind and are good places in general to keep your little etiquette antenna out to be thinking about the people around you and what their expectations might be as well as your own impulses and desires. And

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Speaker 1: I really don't think that you owe anybody closure. I don't think it's an obligation to participate in something like this, but I do think it's an opportunity. I think there are some, some real benefits that can be gained from giving people a chance to to say goodbye maybe to thank you and maybe to to feel

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Speaker 1: honored in the same way by you and your willingness to make the effort to say goodbye to them and

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Speaker 1: you never know this is not while it's a fresh start and I want to congratulate leaving on a jet plane for the opportunity to try something new, do something different, make a change.

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Speaker 1: It's also true that our world is a small place and we remain connected to people in ways that are not always immediately apparent. And it sounds like this might even be the same organization that that it's a new department, a new office, but it's in some way, another group that's connected to this group and having really good, strong relationships with with both the folks that you're leaving as well as the folks that you're joining might

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Speaker 1: might pay rewards in ways that are that aren't immediately apparent like I said or and also might be really beneficial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that makes good sense. You never know when a colleague is going to pop up in your social sphere or in your professional life again or personal life. And so leaving on a warm note is is definitely ideally the way that you want to do it. I'd say

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Speaker 2: I feel for leaving on a jet plane. We have had covid in the last couple of years. That's stressful. I would also recommend that they talk to the host about their covid concerns to make sure that they feel like they're hosting a safe party in their honor from a health perspective, that makes like a good sense and you'd want to be an advocate for everyone's safety

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Speaker 2: and also just not necessarily feeling like they want to attend a gathering in their honor. It can feel stressful, it can feel like a lot of pressure. So I have empathy for the jet plane leaving on a jet plane

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Speaker 2: and on the other hand, I also, I appreciate what dan is saying that this is an opportunity, a chance to lean into maybe some of that anxiety and be social to, to eat a little bit of food, to make a little bit of conversation

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Speaker 2: and to just do one's due diligence for the sake of the relationship and and then at that point, you know, gracefully make your exit and let everyone have a wonderful evening as they continue on.

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Speaker 1: I think you make a good point about being a guest of honor, that's not always an easy thing to do. And for those of us who have just a hint of social anxiety at times, particularly an unfamiliar new situations, I think it's really wise to be thinking about the role that you're gonna be playing and

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Speaker 1: maybe by thinking about it by naming it by being clear that that's the role you're gonna be playing. It's less anxiety inducing that instead of being caught off guard by being the center of attention at a party or the focus of a party or the guest of honor at a party,

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Speaker 1: it helps you identify what's expected of you and big picture, it's not a lot as a guest of honor the party's for you. So it's really not designed to require a lot of you. I think being prepared to say goodbye, I think being prepared to thank people for the time that you spent together and to

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Speaker 1: receive gratitude that people are expressing towards you well is is probably gonna be enough to play your social role at a party like this or an event like this. Well

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Speaker 2: yeah you know you probably have similar conversations with a lot of your colleagues like oh I'm excited about blah blah blah aspect of my next job. I'm going to miss X. Y. Z of this current job. It's been wonderful to be with you all you know

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Speaker 2: and doing some version of that over and over again. I bet after one or two times it'll become old hat for you. So leaving on a jet plane. Best of luck in your new job and best of luck finishing up your old one.

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Speaker 1: We hope our answer helps

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Speaker 2: some of the gangs coming over thursday night and we could have a lot of fun with it. You will come, won't you?

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Speaker 1: Well one Shy Guy is on his

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Speaker 2: way.

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Speaker 1: Not that his worries are over, he'll still have his moments of doubt of hesitation

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Speaker 2: but he

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Speaker 1: can face these problems now because he knows that he's not really different.

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Speaker 2: Our

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Speaker 1: next question is titled let's talk toilet paper.

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Speaker 1: We are having a deep seated debate about TP and whether the role should be put on with the paper coming out on top or on the bottom. I have always thought it is to be the top because hotels always folded neatly coming out of the top for a freshly made guest room. And when I was in the white house for a day, they also had the Tp out the top with an embossed coming out of the top on a fresh roll. But apparently some in our house think differently.

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Speaker 1: Very much appreciate any assistance you can provide to settle this riveting debate. We're having warmest regards mark.

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Speaker 2: So that's exactly how I do it. We have embossed toilet paper and it comes rolled out on top. Right honey.

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Speaker 1: It does. I was so curious if you were and I we're gonna have a domestic dispute because to me the answer is

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Speaker 1: clear this one

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Speaker 2: No. Where we feel the same way I am 100% on the have it rolled out on top.

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Speaker 1: This is one of those where I'm going to confess a slight weirdness and I do it in my own house. But if I ever find it coming out on the bottom. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just maybe it sometimes happens there are some little Children. Our house too.

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Speaker 1: I flip it around. I'm enough of it should come out on top, sort that. I actually change it if I encounter it the other way,

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Speaker 2: I've also flipped the toilet paper roll at like, you know, my mom's house or you know, close family members houses just sitting there. You just flip it over. It's so much easier to access instead of it hanging low

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Speaker 2: and you have to like unroll it on top. I just feel like it's easier to grab. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: It does. And if we want to get into the details and it's always dangerous when you're talking about the bathroom and toilet paper, I think if you tear it off, the tear is likely to get hidden on the back side of the role if it's coming out on the backside.

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Speaker 1: So I just think you're, you're more likely more consistently to set people up. Well, if it's coming out on top, even if you're not folding it out into that nice triangle like they do in hotels or resorts and things like that. I also want to confess that I received this question both as a question to the awesome etiquette podcast and as a direct email question to info at Emily post dot com and

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Speaker 1: because it was such a quick question, I responded to Mark somewhat cheekily that it was clearly top that that was the answer but that we would appreciate discretion in sharing that news with other people because it's always risky when you start to arbitrate a domestic dispute and Mark got the humor and he replied back that he would be careful with the press release. So

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Speaker 1: we're now risking it. We're expanding the answer to a larger audience. But Mark, thank you so much for the question, both via email and into the podcast. And we hope our answer helps everyone as much as it helped you.

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Speaker 2: Okay. But is it bad because we both are on the definitely have it on top side. Should we not have someone else on the other side? There's

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Speaker 1: no other way to do it.

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Speaker 2: That's the problem.

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Speaker 2: We're too alike in this in this question. We're not the best representatives. All right, well that's okay. At least we agree. I guess

00:16:38

Speaker 1: good for our home life Scotties. New magic oval boxes, pretty too. And inside soft,

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Speaker 1: strong sneeze proof Scotties. Remember for tissues that float up smoothly and come out in neatly folded handfuls. Look for Scotties. Pretty new magic oval box, the only one of its kind.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Our 3rd question is titled grandparents and gatherings.

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Speaker 2: Should the other grandparents be asked if they desire to be included in the shower preparation when one of them is hosting. Also availability considered when setting the date. Thanks, what do you think dan

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Speaker 2: Well,

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Speaker 1: so I had a couple of questions about this question, but I don't think they're going to prevent us from giving a good answer and from the way the question is constructed. I'm not sure if the other grandparents is a spouse or a partner of the grandparent that's in question or whether it's a grand pere

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the family.

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Speaker 2: I just assumed it was the other side of the family. But I suppose it really could be either.

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Speaker 1: I think it could and it

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Speaker 2: would affect

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Speaker 1: the answer in degree but not in kind is the way I'm thinking about it. I think that

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Speaker 1: before I get too far into the etiquette side of it, you're in the process of shower preparation. What's your instinct on this answer as a shower host in the next month?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my sister is about to have a baby and so we are hosting a baby shower for her

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Speaker 2: and in that vein I am working with both my mother and her mother in law. My sister's mother in law to host two showers actually one in where my mom lives and one where my mother in law lives,

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Speaker 2: I would say, I think if you really want this other person to be present at the shower, yes, I would include them to check in about availability and I think their family member and they're kind of playing the same role as you are as the one grandparent,

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Speaker 2: I kind of lean towards the side of yes, if you're if you're interested in building that bond and you think this other person would enjoy shower prep definitely reach out to them. So I kind of lean towards the practicality and then maybe like this being a wonderful opportunity to to build this this shower together with some

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Speaker 2: but I kind of liked that idea. I don't know if you know someone might not I guess it might be more to someone's discretion.

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Speaker 1: I was having a very similar thought. I think that practicality can dictate and I think that your answer from personal experience covers what I would think of as the major etiquette points that

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Speaker 1: obviously practicality rules when you're talking about availability. I think the first consideration is the guest of honor is their availability. The and that's right there sort of a one a one b with the availability of the host. And if you're asking someone to co host their availability is definitely a question or a concern. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's the most important thing that's probably even more important that your guest of honor is available because you could probably find another host but you definitely can't find another guest. But when you're talking about someone stepping into if if the question about shower preparation and their involvement in that is part of it, then they're in some ways joining a hosting group and definitely I think they are warranted some consideration in that role.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's much easier to plan if the question is just well is this a party that's including spouses? Is this a non gendered shower, is it one where a partner is going to be invited as the more I hear your reply and the more I think about it, I think you're right, it's probably a grandparent from the other side and there, I think practicality is the question that if it's possible to get all three people coordinated, then you could maybe all do it together and that might be a nice way to start to build those bonds.

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Speaker 1: But also in your answer is the idea that it's perfectly okay to have a couple showers. Also if there are multiple people that are interested in hosting and that's not um something that you're asking of them,

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Speaker 1: but something that they've indicated they would like to do and something that they've maybe even suggested that they would like to do or participate in or do on their own that you can listen to those cues and follow those cues and that

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Speaker 1: if availability turns out to be the problem. But the interest in being part of shower planning or preparing a shower or being sure certain people are included or that it happens when you're available that it would be perfectly okay to say yes to two showers. Also, if that ends up being the most practical solution,

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Speaker 2: more parties, it's not it's not it's not ever really a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: So thank you so much questioner. We hope that our answer is helping to settle your debate about how to progress with your baby shower or wedding shower bridal shower and have so much fun

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Speaker 1: and I am so looking forward to the showers that you're

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Speaker 2: planning.

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Speaker 2: Our

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Speaker 1: Next question is a tough one. It's called term discussion.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I saw you on Rachel's show and thought I'd ask you the real expert on this awkward question and that would be lizzie post that she saw on the Rachel ray show. But I think you and I are gonna have to do our best on this one.

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Speaker 2: We'll do our best.

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Speaker 1: It begins. I have a friend, a coworker and my brother all with blackheads on their faces that have been around so long. They seem permanent. Also one that has a white bump, milia, but otherwise clear skin

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Speaker 1: all could be easily extracted by a dermatologist. I've never had a facial, but the hygienist could easily do the job or actually just a mirror would probably do.

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Speaker 1: I told my brother of course he thought it was a small mole, L. O. L. Now it's gone. Is there any way to politely bring it up to them? Currently, I just zip my lip. These are isolated blemishes, not people with skin condition. We work closely with our clients. I'm not doing this out of a pimple pop obsession, but if I can spot them immediately and then notice them, stay on their faces indefinitely. Our clients might as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure few would notice. But sometimes we have repeat clients. If you think I could say something, I'd like to do it the correct way. I think my friend would be receptive so I can easily use your suggestion with him. Thanks. I'd love to hear your thoughts best. Nicholas I gave you this one because it's a hard one.

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Speaker 2: This is a hard one.

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Speaker 2: It's always hard because people take their personal hygiene so personally, like if anyone wants to say to me something about my breath or something in my teeth, my first thought is actually my first thought is thank you for telling me honestly. Like if something's in my teeth, I'm like, thanks for telling me because then I'm not walking around with this food in my teeth, but it can go the other way it really can where I think people can feel really hurt

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Speaker 2: and embarrassed and maybe defensive and or sad or angry, just it's really personal.

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Speaker 1: I know they call it personal hygiene, right?

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Speaker 2: Yes. They call it personal hygiene.

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Speaker 1: So what would you think? What are some good ways that you might approach this? Apparently, Nicholas has a friend that they feel would be receptive to hearing this. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on an approach.

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Speaker 2: You know, I would probably in my mind prep myself with

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Speaker 2: this is something that I would want to hear probably from someone who I'm close to who I'm comfortable with

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Speaker 2: and someone who I know isn't going to be judging me.

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Speaker 2: And so if I have that spirit in mind that I'm actually doing this out of a good intention

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Speaker 2: and that the person would benefit from this, I think I would feel clean and clear about going forward, although it is a sensitive topic. So something like, hey beth I was wondering if we could chat about something if you have a minute, she says yes, I've got a minute. So now I know she's listening

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Speaker 2: and then letting her know, you know, I wanted to tell you that I noticed um a little pimple on your face. It's something that I think would easily be taken care of if we were to remove it with an aesthetician or a facial.

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Speaker 2: And I think that if we did that if if we were able to clear that mark, I think your face would glow a lot more. I don't think it's anything that I've noticed in a negative way, but I also think that it's something that could be detracting from just how beautiful you are. And I, as I'm saying that out loud, I I'm really tripping up because I don't know, I don't know how to say that gracefully. I, I definitely need some help there, hon

00:26:09

Speaker 1: I really admire your effort to tackle a sample script. We call lizzie, post the master of sample scripts on this show and we call her that for a reason, she's really good at it. She's a natural at it and the reason I call her a natural because she can just do it in the moment on the fly and it's something I so respect and appreciate about her.

00:26:29

Speaker 1: And oftentimes I'm the one on whose role it is, testing out the awkward sample script and discovering how how awkward it sounds and where the trip ups

00:26:38

Speaker 2: are.

00:26:39

Speaker 2: Well, I'm officially playing your role. So now you have to play her role and and help us out. What what, what do you think lizzie would say

00:26:47

Speaker 1: the good news is that this is, it is such a common etiquette problem that we actually have sample scripts for this that we teach at the Emily Post Institute as part of our business etiquette trainer training, as part of our business etiquette seminars, how to talk to a co worker or someone that you're close with about a personal hygiene issue is

00:27:07

Speaker 1: something that comes up for people in all kinds of different contexts. Sometimes it's around important social events. Sometimes it's around professional relationships or work places, Sometimes it's just around relationships within the family, it would make someone more comfortable if someone else did something a little differently. And

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Speaker 1: even within the family, it can be awkward for all those reasons you talked about that, it's not easy to predict how someone's gonna respond when you're talking about something as personal as appearance and grooming and how we take care of ourselves and um your idea that a little bit of preparation for yourself going into the conversation is also a real clue that that's really a kind maneuver to give someone else.

00:27:53

Speaker 1: So there's a tactic that we've talked about on this show before we call priming and it's about setting someone up to receive difficult news. You ask permission to have the awkward conversation. I think you might have even done it as you got going on your sample script. You know, there's something a little awkward that I'd like to talk about. Would you mind do you have a minute? And that's just a really good way to go because it one give someone a chance to excuse themselves if they don't want to have that conversation, if it's not a good time, they're not in a good space for it.

00:28:22

Speaker 1: But if they do agree to it, they're both mentally prepared and they've given you permission. So you've opened up the social space in an important way before you tackle something that's probably more personal than the things we usually talk with each other about even close coworkers or, or spouses.

00:28:39

Speaker 1: The other thing that is built into the sample scripts that we suggest for that conversation? Is that your explicit and caring. And I definitely heard that in your sample script to in fact, I was wondering, are you reading my bullets? Are you reading my answers for this question? Are you just coming up with this on your

00:28:56

Speaker 2: did not read the bullets. I promise. I do remember you talking before about

00:29:04

Speaker 2: asking someone to have a conversation and I like that. So I used that. But no, I hadn't read your bullets.

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Speaker 1: Well I wouldn't have been surprised if you had because that that that second piece of advice. I think you also did very well that you articulate your concern for them coming from a place of care for them

00:29:22

Speaker 1: and that you don't just assume that someone knows that I and the sample language that I would suggest are things like I care about you, I care about you and your success. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd hope you would feel comfortable talking to me about something like this or

00:29:38

Speaker 1: I hope that you would feel comfortable approaching me because I would want to know myself. You can also give them the credit of maybe being aware already. You may be aware already. Or this might be something that you've thought about or this might be something you've noticed so that you're not assuming that you or the other people that you've talked to about this are the only ones that know that there's a good chance this person has thought about it themselves as well. The

00:30:05

Speaker 1: other sample scripts to keep in mind are ones that are built around being honest, direct and curious. And this is where I get tripped up. And this is where I heard your sample scripts start to feel a little awkward to me and I think you even started to feel it awkward in your own

00:30:21

Speaker 2: awkward. So I

00:30:24

Speaker 1: think you can acknowledge that it's difficult, you can even acknowledge it's difficult for you. You know, this is something a little personal, I have a hard time talking about it, but

00:30:34

Speaker 1: and this is where your preparation works. I think you have to really be prepared to address the thing directly because they need to know and dancing around. It doesn't help. I've noticed blemishes that might be something you could clean up pretty easily.

00:30:48

Speaker 1: Have you ever tried X, Y or Z? Or is this something you've thought about? Is this something you've noticed that you you say the thing that is the direct thing in this case that you've noticed blemishes on their face that you think wouldn't be that hard to address, but that you also then follow that with a question or an offer, a willingness to continue the conversation or help

00:31:13

Speaker 1: and that at that point you really are ready to either listen to a response to participate in a solution by offering some suggestions or continuing the discussion or to leave it alone completely if they're not interested or are feeling hurt or defensive or just like they need some time or some space to think about it on their own. And the sample scripts that I've got in my mind for that approach are things like

00:31:39

Speaker 1: I understand, I just wanted to mention it in case you weren't aware or weren't thinking about it or maybe even my apologies, I didn't mean to offend you or

00:31:52

Speaker 1: I've tried or I know about a couple of things that might help if you're curious or want to talk more and that those are things that you could say that would allow you to then offer the suggestions of a really hot compress or a visit to an aesthetician or for something more serious if they've told you that it is a medical concern or something they've dealt with for a long time

00:32:15

Speaker 1: that maybe it's even about about seeing a doctor or medical professional, it sounds like in this case it might be more about a personal hygiene routine recommending a certain product or even just an approach a time of day that would that would help someone before they come to work the office or in other social situations a big party or event.

00:32:34

Speaker 2: Well I just appreciate the being direct because I can tell you as soon as I actually got to the meat of the issue, I was skirting around you know and and dancing around like in the way you said it and that felt really uncomfortable. I think the being direct as the ticket and I think it's hard to do. So I would probably practice this honest if I was going to do this I would probably practice this in my head a few times or in front of the mirror

00:33:04

Speaker 2: and just trying to get the muscle memory in my body of saying this a few times and feeling more and more you know, practice makes perfect just feeling more comfortable with it before I actually did it, you know with someone and um really in my mind set the tone for myself that I'm doing this out of a good intention and that I'm not trying to hurt anyone. I love that you said

00:33:27

Speaker 2: that I can make that explicit one that I care about you, this is my good intention, I care about you and your success and also that I'm and I'm trying not to uh you mentioned somewhere here, it was like um I hope I didn't offend, I don't want to be offensive to you.

00:33:42

Speaker 2: I think that transparency goes a long way in making it less awkward so I really appreciate that.

00:33:47

Speaker 1: Absolutely not leaving your good intentions up to someone else to interpret or guess or assume I think is a real key to to doing something like this. Well, another thing that I think can really help particularly with that directness component is if you remind yourself that you really would want someone else to talk to you about something like this, that

00:34:09

Speaker 1: for the most part if if someone had a concern or if there was something that other people were talking about that was awkward or embarrassing, but that was something that was pretty easy for you to fix, you might really appreciate it if someone was able to bring it to your attention in a way that allowed you to address it. And one thing that we didn't say at the start was that you absolutely want to do something like this in private, in a circumstance or a situation where someone has

00:34:38

Speaker 1: an opportunity both to process and digest what you're saying, but also not to feel called out in front of anyone else. It's it's it's almost so obvious that I don't want to say it, but in the spirit of being explicit about all the good things. I think that's also a really important point to make. But in a business context we have survey data that shows most people would rather hear about a personal hygiene or personal issue

00:35:02

Speaker 1: that's affecting the workplace from a colleague, a friend or a coworker rather than a supervisor, a superior. Someone in HR And that might help that might help with the confidence of finding that that directness that can feel so elusive, particularly for those of us that really take care not to offend someone else or put someone else in an awkward or difficult situation. What you're really doing is helping them avoid awkward or difficult situations. And your willingness to be a part of that

00:35:32

Speaker 1: is in some ways an act of generosity.

00:35:34

Speaker 2: It really is. I mean it is a good friend. I appreciate Nicholas, your care for your friend, your brother and your coworker and that you're thinking about this because it's true. I mean if I were in your brother friend or coworker situation, I would I would really appreciate knowing so best of luck, Nicholas and we really hope our answer helps

00:35:55

Speaker 1: you have many kinds of skin. Your fingernails are a kind of hardened skin, even your hair is a kind of skin. In fact, most of what people see of you is your skin. That's still another reason why the care of the skin is so important.

00:36:18

Speaker 1: Thank you for your questions. Please send us updates or feedback on our answers to awesome etiquette at Emily Post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463. You can also reach us on social media on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram, we are at Emily Post institute and on facebook where the Emily Post Institute, just remember use the hashtag awesome etiquette with your post so that we know you want your question on the show.

00:36:58

Speaker 2: If you love awesome etiquette, consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting us at patreon dot com forward slash awesome etiquette. You'll get an ad free version of the show and access to bonus questions and content plus you'll feel great knowing that you helped keep awesome etiquette on the air and to those of you who are already sustaining members. Thank you for your support.

00:37:20

Speaker 1: It's time for our feedback segment where we hear from you about the questions we answer in the topics we cover today, we have feedback from faith about our discussion on whether speaking in another language in front of those who don't speak it is disrespectful.

00:37:34

Speaker 2: Hello. A E team just wanted to share my feedback on the question from a listener who wondered if they should avoid speaking at a language other than english for an extended period of time in earshot of others, such as an airport.

00:37:48

Speaker 2: When I'm a bystander in places like that, I actually prefer when the people around me are speaking a language I can't understand, it just becomes background noise and I can easily ignore it. Whereas when people are speaking in english, my brain can't tune it out and I'm forced to overhear some stranger's conversation

00:38:05

Speaker 2: rather than just reading my book. Just another perspective for consideration and perhaps something to ease your listeners mind. Best faith

00:38:13

Speaker 1: Faith, we love feedback that has the potential to ease anyone's mind. Thank you so much

00:38:19

Speaker 2: and thank you for sending us your thoughts and updates. Please keep

00:38:23

Speaker 1: them coming. You can

00:38:24

Speaker 2: send your feedback or update to awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com or leave us a voicemail or a text at 802858 kind That's 8028585463.

00:38:45

Speaker 1: It's time for our post script segment where we dive deeper into a topic of etiquette and today we're going to talk about joining the post family?

00:38:54

Speaker 1: I was recently asked at a seminar I was giving about growing up post and found myself saying that I never thought about it. It might have been more strange for my friends or people that I was introducing to my grandparents or my family. That's the answer that I most often find myself giving when I get that particular question. But

00:39:15

Speaker 1: it occurred to me when I was thinking about today's show that there's someone here who could answer that question on behalf of all the friends I've had in my life. I thought I would ask my best friend what it has been like to join the post family puja. I am really curious any thoughts or reflections that you have on

00:39:35

Speaker 1: Either the post family personally or the strange tradition of writing about etiquette that happens to be the gainful employment that your husband's involved in and the family tradition that he enjoys so much and that you've gotten to know very well over the last 10 years.

00:39:53

Speaker 2: When I first met dan actually, I should say when we, when we first went on a date, our first date, I remember sitting at dinner with him

00:40:01

Speaker 2: and he brought up his family background and the Emily Post institute and I immediately felt myself get kind of cold inside and tight and I crossed my legs. I thought to myself, where is my fork, what is my, what is my napkin doing? Is it on the floor? Like just kind of got nervous and really was thinking to myself, how am I being perceived? How am I being judged?

00:40:30

Speaker 2: And then, you know, we're just still sitting. I'm just still sitting there with him and he's just himself and I kind of loosened up and maybe just sat back in my seat because that's been my perception of you and that's why I stuck around dan. Is this, that it's that you're easy. It's easy. Um,

00:40:51

Speaker 2: I think at the heart of it etiquette comes down to the principles as you guys describe them in in terms of honesty, consideration and respect and

00:41:03

Speaker 2: those principles are not like judgment. They're not nervousness or anxiety about being seen in a very particular way. Otherwise you're not good enough. And that was my idea of etiquette before I had known you

00:41:18

Speaker 2: and that that's been my experience with your family as well. The post side and the sending side. Your family is grounded and they're kind and they're generous. And so I think that those qualities come through in the work that you do with lizzie. So that that's what speaks to me about what your family represents. I mean they represent to me what my family represents to me just closeness and

00:41:44

Speaker 2: supporting each other and loving each other and spending time and you know, eating food and holidays and kids running around and

00:41:54

Speaker 2: and all of that is what I, what I feel we celebrate together our families coming together. So it's first, I was really nervous, but that really quickly dissipated and I remember meeting john and Cindy your parents and again, any pretense that I had about, what this nervous feeling that I had about how this might go that immediately went away. I mean

00:42:17

Speaker 2: john sending wanted to wear his hair in cornrows and, and had made a wonderful relationship with the barbershop at the bottom of the street. I mean this man lives for connecting with people. Cindy is an ardent feminist. Um Emily Post was a divorce, a I mean,

00:42:36

Speaker 2: sure there are strings if you wanted to pull in any family or any relationship in any person and say, hey, this person judged me in this moment or this and this, I could think about that in my own life and my own family and I'm sure I could think about it in your family, but that's not what comes to mind. That's not what I think is really, that is really what I perceive there.

00:42:57

Speaker 2: So I think everyone's human, including your family, even though they have this tradition that is really focused, very much so on relationship. For me, it's come and, and it's really equated to the ability to be intentional and relationship and um, that, I mean that's something that I value myself. So not having been a post before now, I'm ascending or maybe technically it might be a sending parentheses post or something like that,

00:43:27

Speaker 2: but really it's pretty good, it's pretty darn good. I'm pretty content with with my placement in the post and the setting family.

00:43:35

Speaker 1: Um, it puts a smile on my face to, to hear you say it. And

00:43:40

Speaker 1: I was definitely wondering if the, that that early date at misery loves company, a phenomenal little eatery in Winooski Vermont was was gonna come up in the course of this discussion because that was definitely the place where what I did came up. I think before that we had met primarily through the movement community in Burlington, through dance and yoga and

00:44:04

Speaker 1: I imagine it was a bit of a left field response to the get to know you question of what do you do and, and maybe sort of a more personal answer than you would expect to get to that question because it is a family business and it's such a tradition within the family as well, that it becomes sort of a loaded answer for me to give. Sometimes that's the place where I feel at the most. And

00:44:29

Speaker 1: precisely because I like other people to be at ease and comfortable, sometimes I avoid even talking about it just because I, I'd rather avoid even that moment of the clutch that you felt when you heard that was, even if it was just a moment if it passed and you found yourself feel uncomfortable very quickly again in terms of quick interactions with people. I often want to try to just avoid that completely. But

00:44:54

Speaker 1: when I meet someone I really like, I've got to tell them

00:44:58

Speaker 2: well I rolled with it and I'm very glad that I did.

00:45:03

Speaker 2: I keep on wanting to say honey and I think that's too close to say honey on a podcast.

00:45:09

Speaker 1: Probably will forgive you if it slips

00:45:12

Speaker 2: out. The other

00:45:13

Speaker 1: thing that occurred to me as I was thinking about that night and I can remember, I can remember where we were sitting that night. I remember what we ordered. You got that incredible hot cocktail.

00:45:23

Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like

00:45:24

Speaker 1: rum, butter something

00:45:26

Speaker 2: from and but I had butter and I remember but it was a cocktail. Yes, and it was warm.

00:45:31

Speaker 1: Yes. And I don't know, I don't drink cocktails, but I remember

00:45:35

Speaker 1: thinking that it just sounded delicious. And the other thing that happened in that meal is something that I think about, there were two things that were memorable about that night, one that it was my first date with you, which was awesome. But the other was, the food was so good and we ordered a salad and it came and it had these just yummy, delicious little nuggets in it that were, I thought they were fried croutons or I didn't know what they were

00:46:04

Speaker 2: turns

00:46:04

Speaker 1: out it was something called head cheese and I still don't know exactly what head cheese is. I have some idea what it is, but it turned out it was a fried head cheese and after I asked the server what it was and he told me I had already committed that they were the most delicious thing I've tasted in a long time. And there was no turning back, I was gonna keep enjoying them.

00:46:26

Speaker 1: And just as you were talking a little bit about the, the post family and the tradition, I was thinking to myself how it might sound weird like head cheese, but if you can just get through a couple of bites, it is delicious and there's so much going on

00:46:41

Speaker 2: there

00:46:42

Speaker 1: and it might be the first time I've ever compared the post family etiquette tradition, the head cheese. But I do think there's something in it in the metaphor

00:46:52

Speaker 2: that's fabulous. So I'm gonna tell Cindy that actually

00:46:56

Speaker 1: well you know where to find her, She's not far away. And for our listeners that don't know my parents lived next door puja has really she dove in. She, she she didn't just jump in. She dove in headfirst and um has really become a treasured and very special part of our family and that's to me, but also to a lot of our extended family and

00:47:19

Speaker 1: um we are so much richer for having you a part of this scene and by us, I mean all of us puja, the awesome Medicaid audience as well as the post family and the Emily Post institute, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for taking the time and

00:47:34

Speaker 1: for sharing your spirit with all of us and for risking me asking you this question out of the blue, everyone should know. I told you not to read the post script part of the script because I wanted to get your right off the bat initial impressions and I appreciate your willingness to take some chances with me along the way.

00:47:51

Speaker 2: You are so welcome. Thank

00:47:53

Speaker 1: you so much for being here.

00:48:11

Speaker 2: We like to end our show on a high note. So we turn to you to hear about the good etiquette you're seeing and experiencing out in the world and that can come in so many forms today we have a special salute for an organization called recognized Good. They are an edit

00:48:26

Speaker 2: salute turned active nonprofit organization.

00:48:29

Speaker 1: Today's etiquette salute is a little bit different. We want to point your attention to an organization called recognized good and they are based in Austin texas. They're a five oh one c nonprofit that are really built around a concept that is very similar to the etiquette salute that we run on this show at the end of each episode.

00:48:50

Speaker 1: This organization began with the idea that recognizing good deeds in the community of austin texas was in itself a valuable thing to do was a worthwhile enterprise and they began almost 20 years ago with this mission to acknowledge and recognize the good that was going on in their community and over the last almost 20 years now they've built an incredible network

00:49:18

Speaker 1: that connects stories and appreciation for good things that are happening in texas and more specifically in austin to donors and people who are willing to fund a reward system that is granted on the basis of recommendations about good behavior. So they've essentially taken the idea of the etiquette salute

00:49:39

Speaker 1: and amplified it to the point where it becomes its own marketing and becomes a vehicle for generating donor support for continuing to support the people that are recognized for doing the good work. And we wanted to take an etiquette salute to point attention of our audience at the work that they do that recognize good, you can find out more about them at recognize good dot org. And for those of you who are listening in austin or

00:50:08

Speaker 1: the greater community in the state of texas, I know that is very big for a vermonter, it's easy to think, oh Burlington or the surrounding area, the whole state. But even in a great big state like that, it's hard to overstate the importance of recognizing organizations that are doing incredible work and that are figuring out ways to support people who are doing the right thing and who are positive change agents in their community. So

00:50:31

Speaker 1: from the etiquette salute at the awesome etiquette podcast, we want to recognize good and turn your attention to recognize good dot org.

00:50:46

Speaker 2: Thank you for listening

00:50:48

Speaker 1: and thank you to everyone who sent us something and everyone who supports us on patreon.

00:50:52

Speaker 2: Please connect with us and share this show with your friends, family and coworkers and on social media

00:50:58

Speaker 1: you can send us your next question, piece of feedback or salute by email to awesome.

00:51:04

Speaker 1: Emily post dot com. You can leave us a voicemail or text at 802858 kind. That's 8028585463 on twitter. We are at Emily Post on instagram, we are at Emily Post Institute and on facebook where the Emily Post Institute,

00:51:21

Speaker 2: please consider becoming a sustaining member by visiting patreon dot com forward slash awesome etiquette.

00:51:27

Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to the ads version of our show on Spotify or your favorite podcast app and please consider leaving us a review and helps our show ranking, which helps more people find awesome etiquette.

00:51:38

Speaker 1: Our show is edited by chris Albertine and a system produced by Bridget

00:51:42

Speaker 2: Dow. Thanks