Episode 5: Tipsy Hockey Players, Unwanted Attachments, and Lauren Conrad
Speaker 1: has.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just that you don't know how to use social courtesy that's old fashioned.
Speaker 1: Watch how busy
Speaker 2: post and damn post center actors host
Speaker 1: and hostess.
Speaker 1: They know that courtesy means showing respect, thinking of the other person. Really Friendliness. Welcome to Awesome Etiquette, part of the Infinite Guest Network. I'm Lizzie Post,
Speaker 2: and I'm Dan Post sending from the Emily Post Institute. It's good to be with you once again. So we've got to start off today's show with a story that is a true story, and it happened last week was he came into the office and was telling me about something that happened to her the night before. And I said, You know this. This is the intro to our next podcast without further ado,
Speaker 1: not sure that we should share it, but it does. It does bring up some interesting dating conundrums and and situations in the 21st century. In this age
Speaker 2: of it is a brave new world
Speaker 1: Internet stalking and all kinds of fun things. But I was out at one of my favorite local bars with a wonderful girlfriend of mine, and this guy walks up test. We're gonna call
Speaker 2: this little tutorial on what? Not to dio.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, definitely. What? Guys? Take note. Hey, girls, take note. Eso he taps my friend and my friend is this gorgeous blonde like I mean, she's just she's got it going on. He taps her on the shoulder and he says, Hey, what's your friends name? Indicating me. And I was, like, kind of taken aback. You know, I'm used to people going up and asking her for her name and that sort of thing, but I was just, like, Wait, that's, like, immediately I go to critique mode. I'm like, your first move is to ask my friend for my name. What am I, chopped liver? Not the best
Speaker 2: move, but it generates
Speaker 1: some interest, was generated some confusion and a little Like what? The little conflict. Maybe he
Speaker 2: can transition this moment.
Speaker 1: All right. He didn't sow E. So I'm like sitting there like looking like Okay, what? You can't talk to me. And so he kind of said that to him. I was like, What do you think? I can't answer for myself, and he's like, Well, I wanted to ask her what your name was. I was like dad. Movement fed, move like Come on, try again. And I said, Here's how you do it. What's your name? And he didn't tell me his name. He just kept, like, kind of talking, and he was kind of talking nonsense. I mean, you could definitely tell he'd been drinking a bunch like he wasn't sloppy drunk, though by any means,
Speaker 1: but definitely not following the situation that was happening. He was kind of like trying to make his own situation happen. So already I'm feeling like ignored because it's like I've now asked him his name, like, two or three times at this point, and he still hasn't answered. And so and he's still going back and forth with my friend trying to get my name. And I'm like, Why why are you doing this? Your I'm right here, like, you know, and I'm trying to get your name from you.
Speaker 1: And so finally I go. Listen, man, I've asked you your name five times now and you haven't said anything and you've asked me for my number at this point. What makes you think I'm going to give it to someone who can't even hold a conversation long enough to tell me his name. Like I'm really in mode. At this point. I'm like, Alright, your chance with me is shot. And I'm really gonna let you know about it. At this point, I was having a bad day, just in case anyone wanted to know. So I just decided, you know, like, it's rare that I'll do this. I'm usually very compassionate, very understanding. In fact, my friends say it's a fault, but I I think it's, you know, you gotta give people credit for trying. I was done giving him credit for trying. So finally, he gives me his name and we talk a little bit, and it turns out that he actually was a player on a hockey team that I'm a fan of
Speaker 1: and not not national, just local. Um, but I wound up, you know, going Oh, wow. You know, I Yeah, I'm familiar with the team. I'm trying, you know, I'm like, trying to remember I'm not. I admit I'm not great with with names on teams like God, I have a really hard time. Every time my saints change up their players, I'm just like, why
Speaker 2: they wear the colorful uniforms.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. It helps anyway. So So he tells me his name and I'm thinking, Oh, well, you know, my dad goes to every single game. I'm gonna ask my dad if he remembers this player at all. Because I'm not recognizing the name. It's It's not like some of the other players that really stick with you over the years. Eso I text my dad. I'm like, Hey, do you remember this guy from such and such hockey team?
Speaker 1: And And the guy knows that I have now texted my father about it, so we start talking hockey a little bit, but mostly he just keeps trying to get my number, and I keep saying no and you know, he's This guy is probably, like, 24 25 years old. I'm almost 32 like, Not that that's a bad thing, but I've kind of had my share of dating these young 21 year olds, 22 year old, 23 year old. I'm kind of done with it. At this point.
Speaker 2: I would really like to date
Speaker 1: my own age bracket again, and and I'm also just not in a place right now where I wanted to be giving this guy my attention or my number. And so, um, we're talking and everything, and the text message comes back from my dad and I'm kind of like All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna wait. I'm not going to say it to the kid right now,
Speaker 1: but as we're talking more with him and I'm really recognizing at this point that I just want this kid could go away like he's just being obnoxious, He's even being downright rude in certain places. I mean, he's telling me I have no sense of humor. He's I'm like And yet then he goes and ask from a number again. I'm like, Really, dude, like you're putting me down and then trying to get one too
Speaker 2: many pickup artist website.
Speaker 1: It's like, Wait, wait bad. So all of a sudden my mom starts texting me and she's this'll like, blows me away. So I'm imagining my parents at home. I'm like Thursday, Friday night, and they're sitting there googling the kid for me and giving me like where he graduated from, like, what is Major Waas, where he came from? His parents owned such and such store. She's like egging me on. And I'm like, Mom, no, this dude is like, not who you wanna be said getting me set up with and the kids starts getting ruder and ruder and ruder. And so finally and I got to say, I am never like this. I never try to put anybody down. It's just not in my nature like I really don't like making other people feel bad just because I'm not interested like I don't think that's an appropriate way to behave. But this kid was ticking me off to the point where I was just like, Oh, look, I heard back from my dad. Recognize the name, but not a standout player on the ice. Sorry, buddy, you're done. And he just stormed
Speaker 2: off and was like, Your dad needs to check his I start were,
Speaker 1: like, walked off. But I love the fact that my mom's is sitting there at home like Google, stalking some dude for me
Speaker 2: in real time and relaying the information to you.
Speaker 1: It's just like in house of cards where you like, see the text message come up on the screen, and they're like showing what's going on. It's like I don't crack me up
Speaker 1: anyway. So dating adventures. I promise I won't share too many of them, but I kind of thought that one was
Speaker 2: absurd and keep them
Speaker 1: coming.
Speaker 1: If you have any of your own dating adventures or crazy stories, please feel free to share them with us at awesome etiquette at Emily Post com.
Speaker 1: Sure, you're right.
Speaker 1: There's so much to learn how to do. Sure, there's a lot to learn, but its weapons
Speaker 1: and learning is easy. One way is by watching others.
Speaker 1: And
Speaker 2: now, for our favorite part of the show, your questions on how to behave.
Speaker 1: Jessica Rights. I recently received a job offer via email. Attached to the email was a file with both my offer and another persons. While this person holds a different position that want mine would be, it still made me very uncomfortable. I don't know whether or not I should address the sloppy error in my reply to their offer or to simply ignore it. I guess my reply will vary based on whether or not I decide to accept their offer. But I was just holding out for a bit of advice,
Speaker 2: you know, in this situation. I say you kind of forget that it happened. Really. I would just delete that other attachment off my email. Once you open it and read the first line or two. You know, it's not for you. Uh, to me, this is a situation where there might not need. You might not need to point out someone else's mistake. If for some reason you think that you might be able to help the person who sent you the file mistakenly avoid the mistake in the future by telling them about the mistake they made, you might take that kind of tone. Uh, just thought you should know. I also received an attachment on this email that I believe was intended for someone else. But I would keep it very simple, very factual like that. I wouldn't call into question their their ability or or mentioned that you thought it was some kind of breach of confidential
Speaker 1: or that you thought it was inappropriate. Yeah, I'm with Dan. I tend thio toe run on the side of Be honest, you don't have to be opinionated about it, but you could be honest about it, and I whether I accepted the job or not, I would probably say I just wanted you to be aware that there was a second attachment on this email that was meant for this person. I didn't read past their name,
Speaker 1: but I
Speaker 2: wanted you to be aware. And that's it. So keep it simple. If you are gonna mention it, stick to the fax and tell yourself that you're taking this like broccoli on the tooth. You're helping them avoid embarrassment, future by diverting them to an
Speaker 1: awkward. And the way you do that, you always say I would want to know if the situation was reversed and I was in this position. So I'm choosing to tell you, but I would read the
Speaker 2: email back to myself and be sure that my tone doesn't get schooled or preachy. You have even a hint of a reprimand. You want to really stick to the fax.
Speaker 1: Good luck. And I hope I hope if you took the job, you like your new job. Yeah. Mhm. All right. Next question. What is the standard cut off? Time to make a phone call at night? I am so glad we have this question on our list and this is This gets so complicated in the age of the cell phone.
Speaker 2: Really, it does. And I want people to please let us know what they think. This is a question. Where to? Absolutely the Emily Post Facebook page. We don't have the Facebook for this podcast set up yet, but it's coming right. And this is one of those questions that I think should be a running discussion. It should be a forum topic.
Speaker 1: I'm going to call out my father,
Speaker 1: my dear friend Aaron, and my new friend Jacqueline on their pre 8 a.m. text messages that come into my phone. That double buzz toe. Let me know that something has come in and drive me. Absolutely. Bunkers
Speaker 2: on the drive over here. Lizzie noticed my phone is set on, Do not disturb and has been for a couple of months. I don't know how to change that setting,
Speaker 1: which is really difficult, by the way, when I'm trying to get in touch with you to tell you that something is wrong
Speaker 2: at the office. But a big part of it
Speaker 1: is how do you love how we just ignore that He just, like, went straight into like ITT. Whatever. A big part of that story is that
Speaker 2: these phones often sit by our our beds at night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are for sure. Absolutely. Eso I have it on. I I don't do the do not disturb thing because I want also. Like, if there's an emergency which, yes, my phone has rang in the middle of the night and I needed to go pick someone up and help them out like it happens.
Speaker 2: For the record, I do see visual alerts that their incoming calls and texts
Speaker 1: eso you actually consciously ignore them. Thanks, Dan. Thanks.
Speaker 1: This will be our last podcast, as we've now had a rift in the
Speaker 2: family. So before the cell phone, the cut off time was pretty clear. About eight o'clock in the evening, you didn't call after people in the house started to fall asleep. You didn't call so early that you woke people up. This was when the phone used to ring in the living room in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: I got called out. So in grammar school, we had, you know, homework buddies. And this was the person that you could call if you were having trouble with your homework, right? Designated friend and I called my homework buddy at nine o'clock at night. Her mom was furious and being the good little adequate girl that I was, I wrote an apology note and I sent it home with a girl. I did absolutely and said, I'm so sorry. The rule at my house is 10 o'clock, and I should not have assumed it was the same at your house, too. But cell phones have really changed. Exactly. So I was thinking,
Speaker 2: as you think about this question, maybe the cell phones change that. Maybe you have someone who you know you can call later. It doesn't wake up the whole house. You know that they're awake till midnight every night, there, watching the Daily Show. You're gonna call them and talk about the Daily Show episode as it's happening.
Speaker 1: But I'm still Florida. The amount of people that will granted I will send a text as opposed to call someone if I'm not sure if they're awake yet, that sort of thing, or if I think maybe they've gone to bed. I'll text and see if there's 11 so I do it, too. But it does just crack me up the number of pre seven or eight AM phone calls or text messages that I get. I'm like, really guys like I'm not. My alarm doesn't go off till eight. So what's the answer? So the answer is that you should not call and use your head. Think about the person that you're calling and consider whether or not they're probably up. Not just because you have to get up earlier for your job or not, just because you happen to be awake late on a Thursday night and want to discuss, you know, game of Thrones or whatever it is that you finally downloaded and watched. But I do think it's really important for you to just take a minute and think, Is it too late? Is there another way that I could reach them? Is this an emergency where I need to get
Speaker 2: a hold of them? Are they gonna appreciate
Speaker 1: that? Are they gonna appreciate this? I really do Think
Speaker 2: about the other person. It's back to the platinum rule. It's not always about you and your standards. In today's world, you oftentimes have to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Think about their standards and what they would most appreciate. E also love how you're willing to moderate a little bit. Maybe a phone call isn't so good early in the morning, but a text that doesn't ring in the same way That doesn't demand the same attention of the other person.
Speaker 1: So and here, we're gonna We're gonna really bring it into the social media age and say that if you really don't want to disturb someone and it's not a pressing matter, shoot him a Facebook message.
Speaker 1: It's silent. They're only going to get it when they log in. Like there's no disruption there. Unless
Speaker 2: the mobile app Oh, that's true. Yeah, I don't do the push notifications. Okay, We'll scratch that. I thought it was good with that. We've got choices now. We
Speaker 1: have choice. You gotta think so. You gotta think exactly.
Speaker 2: Sorry. Tough answer.
Speaker 1: E.
Speaker 1: I like it when we talk for a long time and probably
Speaker 2: don't give them anything beneficial at the end. Other than food for thought gets closer to the truth of the
Speaker 1: situation.
Speaker 1: So I just I love where this next question comes from, comes from Cape Town, South Africa, and I just I love the fact that we have people from all over the world writing in. So Jane writes, I wonder if you have any etiquette thoughts on tattoos. I'm an older person with no tattoos, but I see so many people, even older ones, covered in tattoos. Is it okay to stare and read the tattoos? Should one avert one's eyes? This is often a jumble of pictures and writings, and I wonder if people get tattoos just for themselves or for others to notice to. What do you think?
Speaker 1: I
Speaker 2: think this is one of the best questions we've had in a long
Speaker 1: time, and I love
Speaker 2: thinking about that Dude. I think they're so cool. I don't have any. I don't plan to ever get any, Uh, and it's definitely true that they're becoming, ah, bigger and bigger part of a broader world. Used to be what's about a time a tattoo meant you were? Ah, biker. A sailor had spent some time in a prison somewhere, and that's no longer necessarily true. As this as this listener notes, they become a rite of passage for a whole generation. Um, a Sfar is looking at them. It's never really polite to stare. So I think that no matter what it is, whether you're noticing someone's outfit or someone's tattoos that that you want to be careful that you don't cross the line to tow awkward staring
Speaker 1: at the same
Speaker 2: time you might notice a colorful shirt on someone or a hairstyle that you like or a particular application of makeup. You can notice things about people on, and you could look without giving a fence or being creepy or invasive. Um, you might not wanna ask a lot of probing questions about someone's tattoos. You might not wanna ask to touch them or or investigate tattoos that aren't fully revealed or exposed unless you know someone well, and you happen to be talking about it. Uh,
Speaker 1: proceed with caution. In other words, yes, Andi, just with respect
Speaker 2: that these air these air people on there there there are also painted people working
Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, e think if you're going to get tattoos, I mean, like a friend of mine is just in the in the process of She's just gotten the outline done of a sleeve that she's getting, and she knows she's going to get a lot of questions about it. And, um, it's one of those things where even our cousin Peter he's got sleeves going on and, you know, they're interesting. There's some cool. He's got some cool artwork on his arms. And sometimes I stare at
Speaker 2: the classic Americana variety and yeah, if you catch him in the right mood, he really likes talking about
Speaker 1: him. But what if you catch him in a bad mood? I'm going to say to the people who do get tattoos, especially ones that are very visible. Um, be prepared toe. Have someone answer questions or ask a question about it. Excuse me? Be prepared to have a short answer or an in depth answer to say, Oh, you know, it's something I've accumulated over the years for the short answer. Oh, well, you know, if you have time, I'm happy to tell you about them. If you want to go into it
Speaker 2: artist style. The decision making
Speaker 1: understand that people are gonna be curious. So if you're gonna put it out there, it's just like the person who, like, gets like the earplugs or like some big face something on their face and then yeah, and then gets mad when people try to talk about it. It's like, Dude, you put it out there. People are gonna ask questions. Be prepared for
Speaker 2: it. This brings up another thought the idea of the reciprocal responsibility that just like it's up to you not to be invasive and staring awkwardly, it's up to someone else to not be too offended If someone does bring it up or talk about it. I like to approach tattoos from a generational perspective. Also, when I talked to young folks who are entering the workforce, I talk about being prepared for working with a generation that might have seen tattoos differently than their generation does. And to be prepared to may be present in a more conservative way to think about wearing clothes that cover up tattoos in the workplace. If that's something that matters to the older generations in their workforce
Speaker 1: or to the clients that you might be more to
Speaker 2: the clients, they might be meeting at the same time. When I'm talking to folks who are from that other generation, I remind them that tattoos don't carry the same weight or significance that they used Thio and that for a generation that's entering the workforce not to be too quick to judge and toe to allow themselves the the latitude to maybe broaden their perspective a little bit about what a tattoo might.
Speaker 2: Oh,
Speaker 1: my God.
Speaker 1: Social courtesy does pay, doesn't it? Thanks.
Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone for sending in your questions. We so look forward to them. And even if we don't answer them on air, we do read everyone. So please keep
Speaker 2: them coming.
Speaker 2: We're trying something a little bit different today and recording this segment from the private offices of the Emily Post Institute. Lizzie and I want to invite you to share your etiquette faux paws with us and with the larger audience here at awesome etiquette. The idea is that that we wanna highlight not just the exemplary behavior that that we're gonna be acknowledging during our etiquette salutes. But we also want to acknowledge the blunders and the mistakes that happen along the way because oftentimes they say as much about us is our successes.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna get a started today by sharing one of my biggest etiquette faux pas, and it has to do with a wedding invitation that I completely ignored. I was very graciously invited to the wedding of my high school sweetheart years, years after our relationship had ended, um, she was getting married. Thio,
Speaker 2: tow her husband today. Brilliant man. Very successful journalist. And, um and I received a wedding invitation. I really didn't know what Thio to do with it. I was unsure. And in my my uncertainty in my
Speaker 2: confusion, I just didn't do anything. I didn't respond to it. I didn't send a gift. I didn't decline. I didn't r s v p I didn't attend. Um, my my new girlfriend at the time, I think approved of my course of action. In fact, she might have you been soothed by it, but it absolutely wasn't the correct thing to do. Um, and I sort of knew it, and I knew it at the time, but I I
Speaker 2: I thought that it would be Easier Mountain myself that the time just to ignore it completely. Um, years later, when the social media revolution hit and I found myself on Facebook with that spider web of connections sort of growing outward through through my growing social network and as that that spider web of connections started toe to penetrate back into my past and my high school social circles. I couldn't ignore that high school girlfriend anymore. She was friends with just about everybody that I was friends with from that time in my life are circles were so overlapping that I ended up apologizing via social media. I sent her a Facebook apology she most graciously accepted. It told me that it was long forgotten and not to worry about it. Um, so the story ends up being a little revealing about both. How how social media can help reestablish bonds that are, are lost or or maybe that you think are done with as you move on in your wife.
Speaker 2: So that's the happy part of the story. But the sad part of the stories I completely ignored a wedding invitation, and I missed a great wedding. Ah, lot of my high school social circle was there, and it would have been a lot of fun to be there myself, and to this day, I regret that I didn't go and, you know, since we're being confessional, I think I still over a wedding present. That's my etiquette faux pas story, and I hope this inspires you to share one of yours, so please send them toe awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com and, uh, feel free to omit any personal or revealing details. We'll keep him anonymous. Or if if you really want to get confessional, we'll issue your apology on air. So thanks so much, and we'll keep an eye open for those emails.
Speaker 2: Both Lizzie and I think it's really important to highlight all the good etiquette that's going on in the world today. So each episode we like to do an awesome etiquette salute,
Speaker 1: so it might seem a little strange toe automatically offer up an awesome etiquette salute to a celebrity, but she's a celebrity that loves etiquette. I've actually had the privilege to be on the phone with her talking about etiquette before, and that is Miss Lauren Conrad. And I think that etiquette isn't just about doing good deeds for other people. It's so much about handling difficult and awkward situations well. And Lauren Conrad was on a radio show a month or two ago, where the host, you know, host sometimes want to ask that like,
Speaker 1: um, edgy question, they want to get something salaciousness out of you, that kind of thing. And I think that the way that you handle yourself when you get
Speaker 1: approached with a question like that says a lot about who you are. And man, this told me that Lauren Conrad is a woman of class through and through. And she was asked, What's your favorite position? And by all standards, I'm pretty sure he was talking about her favorite sexual position. Appropriate question, inappropriate question in an interview, maybe depending on what show she was on, it fit in. But what I love is that rather than be offended by it, or rather than play into it, which is unnecessary is well, she turned around and said, CEO
Speaker 1: and I thought, That is so darn classy that you turn that question that is an inappropriate question into something that says, Hey, I'm a businesswoman and I'm serious And I like what I dio And I'm also gonna be witty and cute about telling you that my favorite position is being the boss on I love I love that. So, Lauren Conrad, you get my awesome etiquette salute. Have you You're here. Well, now, wasn't that better? Look at the effect of a little politeness. Hey, that's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening. We really enjoy this time that we get to spend with you.
Speaker 1: Send us your questions, your etiquette salutes or your suggestions for future podcast, too. Awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, where the Emily Post Institute or you can hit us up on Twitter. Dan and I each have our own handles. I am at Lizzie a post,
Speaker 2: and I'm at Daniel Underscore Post.
Speaker 1: Or you can submit questions or comments, too Awesome etiquette at Emily post dot com. You can also visit us at Emily post dot com.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 2: This is awesome Etiquette, Part of the Infinite Guest Network from American Public Media.
Speaker 1: The Infinite Guest Network has all kinds of podcast for you to listen to, including the Splendid Table, Dinner party download and wits. Find them all at Infinite Guest or G